this is cruise control. Control, you're on air. Automotive magazine with co-host Fred Stop and Les Jackson. Control everything you need to know about new and used cars. Industry news. Well, fix a repair your car on the air, fasten your seat belts and let us take the wheel. Your ride is about to begin. Control because you're on cruise control is control. That's right. You're right is about to begin. Whoops. It actually has begun. Buckle up.
Because we've got a great hour of automotive information and hopefully fun and keeping it fun, as always, is my co-host and friend Les Jackson. Hey Les Jackson. Hey there, Fred, which of us is driving? We should agree on that. Hello. It's on that, autonomous thing that it just does take the wheel. It just does that. Yeah, yeah. That's right. You're going to love this first story, last that we're going to do on cruise control. One manufacturer says sedans are not dead.
I, I'm going to go kiss that manufacturer right off the air. And, also Honda goes hydrogen right here in the USA. Pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. Building what could be a mass market hydrogen powered vehicle. We'll talk about that. And then here's something that will affect pretty much anyone that's buying a new vehicle, new fuel mileage ratings were just released. Just released. What does that mean for the new models that will be available in the showrooms?
Yes. And, we're going to talk tech and the tech. It's going to be electric motors. And, there's a new type of electric motor that could be the key to affordable EVs. Electric. all electric vehicles. This is could be exciting. Yeah. Very exciting. especially with manufacturers trying to get the prices down. And then Jeep says its lineup is going to get a whole lot less confusing. because they say they have too many models, too many variants. And it it's just too hard for them.
Well, to make them all. And they figure they can maybe, make it easier for the consumer and, well, who knows what it will do to pricing. We'll talk about that. Yeah. Well you're right and I'm glad they're doing it because it sure confuses me. Well, you know, they they talked about they used their example of the, Jeep Wagoneer s their new electric model that it's only available in one trim level. Now that can be great. Or it can be a lot more expensive if you if you just wanted, a base model.
But I, as I always say, cruise control, most people want something that's, got all the options, I think. Well that's right. That's them dealer stock it that way. And that's what people want. Yeah. everybody wants a choice. Everybody wants to personalize their vehicle to to themselves and if you can't do that, you'll go to somewhere. Who will do that for you? Sell it to you. Yeah. So there. So there, so there. Well we were. How do you like that? How do you like them apples?
Well, we'll we'll be back with cruise control your on air automotive magazine. It's Fred Staub and let's Jackson check us out at our Facebook page, our YouTube page and our other social media outlets. We will be right back because we are just getting started on cruise control. Cruise control. And welcome back to Cruise Control. We are driving along and I'm delighted with the first story.
We're going to cover because, our friends at Cadillac, it's, the design chief confirms that sedans are not dead. They're not going away. And I'm going to go shake his hand. Yeah, yeah, this comes from, this comes from the drive. According to a report from the drive, that, General Motors, specifically Cadillac will keep. Yeah. Building sedans. And Michael Simcoe, who is the, global design vice president, GM, global design vice president, said SUVs are a necessary evil.
They've taken over the market. and, they've taken over the market. And they are a comfortable, rational, personal, purchase for some for those who can't afford it, though, there's always a second car that isn't an SUV. And we certainly want to have a sedan in the portfolio at some point. but he's right. You and I have talked about this, and, you know, when we have a press vehicle that's a sedan, it's almost relaxing. It's almost like, wow, I really look forward to this. Absolutely.
and and I should say, while. Okay, while 70% of all purchases are SUVs, in the last four and a half years, according to the NYT's, data, rear end collisions are up 22% nationwide. And they they're the only reason, other than poor attention, which is why they were that way that while they were already 30% of crashes, is that there are SUVs people can't see around them and they get even, more likely to hit something.
And you need, you're running 21, 22 inch wheels and you've got a lot of mass, so it takes longer to stop it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but, you know, we always say there are people that need SUVs. Some people don't, though. I tell you, I still think the best vehicle is a hatchback. I just. I agree. It just seems to it it's has enough utility in it.
You put the rear seats down, you can load it up yet it's a small package to to drive around and you and I have seen it, where people just it's like it's like docking a cruise ship, basically some of these SUVs. Right. Well, and we've seen how badly people drive just trying to turn them around or even park them. and you just think, well, why did you buy this thing if you can't operate it? Yeah. but that's the way it is. That's the way it is. That's the way it is. And as he said, necessary evil.
But, you know, for some people, as always, I mean, you might say, well, why do you need a crew cab dually? Well, some people tow giant fifth wheel trailers, so they need it. Sure. It's it's just probably that a lot of people just follow on and see a large SUV, and that's what they get. Let's. I hate to say it, folks, but what do people need with a family? It's a minivan. You know it. It does. Right? It it's the best tool for the job.
It may not be pleasing to people's psyches or looks, but it is. It's easy to load and unload. And certainly your teenagers psyches. Oh, please don't buy a minivan, okay? Or social life. That's right. Yeah. So. But, but the trend will probably continue for some time, we imagine. And, you know, it's just it's just the way it is. So. Hey, what can you do about it? But sedans will be, part of the, Cadillac lineup.
And, you know, I haven't seen one of these out there yet, but the celestiq is supposed to be there. bespoke. I have to use that word every. Yeah, every, every, every. Chance you can get. Yes. There custom car. We're also going to do a story, and a little bit about them wanting to get into the hypercar business, which seems strange to me. And Honda wants to do that too as well. But, we shall see. But, what do you think? Are you glad to hear that Cadillac will keep sedans in their lineup?
Other manufacturers have to as well. Like Nissan, Kia, Hyundai. well, brands like Ford. And Toyota and. GM have gone strictly away from them. So we will, we will keep you informed, though the only thing on that celestiq that light at the bottom corner of the, Right. It seems like that's going to go in a in a back end or something. It looks it also almost also looks a little bit like a bit of an afterthought, you know, why do you know, what are we going to do instead of just having bodywork here.
Yeah. Well, it's not an afterthought that we're going to take a break and be back with more cruise control. When we come back, a lot of talk about hydrogen power. Well, Honda is putting it on the road. They're building hydrogen powered vehicles in the US. So stay tuned. We'll tell you all about it. We've. cruise control. And welcome back to Cruise Control, your on air automotive magazine.
we are back and we're going to talk about, hydrogen power because, Honda has started building hydrogen vehicles just this week in, in the US less. And I think that's, pretty big news. I mean, you and I have been talking about this on cruise control for a while, and it's really starting to percolate and get going. And they are advancing their hydrogen strategy with the production of a fuel cell vehicle. In Ohio, it is the Cr-V, E or Fcev.
And, they're using new components and new welds system and a number another of, a number of other technologies. it's it's pretty exciting. I would love to see hydrogen expand because the future is not just electric or or even hybrids. It is also hydrogen as well. And the take away from this vehicle is it is a CRV. It looks like a CRV. And that's going to be comforting to people. Yep. Everybody's happy with the CRV. so it would be seamless driving you just wouldn't even care what's propelling it.
as long as you can fill it up, reasonably conveniently. no reason it won't sell. And Honda, as we know, because we've tested in the past and going back close to 20 years, the clarity and the and the FCV, well, the clarity was the first one that was a sedan. And, it was great. We had, a hydrogen fuel station in northeast Washington, DC here. Took five minutes to to fill it up. Nothing. Just like a gas. drove exactly like a car. Like any car on the road. Yeah. Really nice. Well, so I love it.
I, you know, I just love it. Well, they have identified a number of four, actually core domains that they're thinking that a fuel cell system would work for. and that includes, commercial vehicles like class eight trucks or delivery trucks. Right. Stationary power stations and construction machinery. I think I think it's great. I wonder, though, how I worry that governments just see it as EV, EV actually, technically a fuel cell vehicle is an EV, but how are they?
Are they putting money into hydrogen infrastructure, let's say for class eight trucks? Or are they just saying nope, it's strictly EV? No, I don't believe, that the the governments, at least on the East Coast, that, you know, because we have meetings here in Washington every year with all of this, they're called the mobility talks. Yes. and I've attended them many times and, it's all it's all out there.
It's it's how do we establish the infrastructure as a joint federal state government and, manufacturers, program to, to start installing these infrastructures. So, like, first, every hundred miles on the interstates and every 50 that every 25 and every ten and an hour on and on. So it's, very high speed charging stations. It's hydrogen. right now, those are the only two, they're solar generators at the, at the, facilities that produce their, like, most of their electricity.
So it's it's pretty smart, you know, it's not cheap. but everybody knows you have to do it. You don't have to do it by tomorrow, but you have to do it. Yeah. And we got to. I'm. I'm just worried that it's, it's a one size fits all solution. And I think they they have to think beyond that. It's multiple technologies. You know, it is. It is the fuel cell. I would love to drive this, CRV when I, when it's done, because.
Yeah. you know, I, I was reading an article about, you know, there was the big push for, as you said, chargers every 50 miles. They built seven of them with billions of dollars. Well, and some of it is outdated rules that they say the state controls, roadside rest stops on highways, on federal highways. Yeah. And so they that they're not allowed to put them there. But that's where they that was the whole billion dollar program.
That's where they had to put them, as you said, every 50 miles or so. So yeah. It's, it's it's a problem, you know. And there you are with the individual states and it's the politics of the states and, and you have, basically institutionalized corruption of some level. Yeah. Every state. Yeah. Further south you go, the more there is, but it'll get, it'll all get worked out because again, it has to get worked out. Well. You run out of easy oil. I, I'm all more of a carrot versus a stick.
and instead of bashing the oil companies, you could say, here's some advantages for you to create hydrogen filling stations. That's what I. Absolutely, absolutely, you know, I don't understand why the oil companies have had been producing hydrogen for decades. I don't understand that at all. But, right now, I guess there's not enough market for them to to buy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, of course, James May had a clarity. James May, of course, from from Top Gear fame. and, Grand Tour fame.
And he said he loved it, but they closed up four hydrogen stations and he said it, it was, you know, he had to sell it. He didn't want to. He liked it, but it made it just too difficult to fuel. You know. Yeah. That's a problem. All right. It's it's like having a steam car and you know. Well there's you can burn wood in the steam car. Right, right. But but the problem is it's a hassle to, to drive it. Yeah. You know, when it just becomes too much bother. Yeah. Okay. Well let me ask you this.
And it might be off on a tangent, but isn't there such a thing as a mobile hydrogen refueling truck? Like a, like a big something akin to a big propane truck that would come there with a hose? No reason you couldn't have it technologically. You could have it. I don't know if legally you could have it. You've got all kinds of. Does anyone use hydrogen right now for anything, in manufacturing and have a truck that lives it?
Sure. Lots of hydrogen is used in manufacturing for all sorts of things, but but it's stationary. Yeah, but they ship it around. I've, I've seen tank trucks, you know, with hydrogen. as, as they said in this article, the, power stations, mobile, or fixed power stations, once again, clean fuel. The only output is water. They've been talking for a long time to have power stations located in communities. people don't want them. But imagine if it just made no sound and only put out water.
Maybe they would. And it's distilled water. It's ultrapure water. So you could use it for something. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I think the future holds that very likely. Okay. Very interesting. Well, as you say, you and I have driven early versions of these car, so I look forward to driving this, CRV and see, seeing what it's like. We'll have to check into that once it's once it's ready to go.
well, coming up, we are going to talk about new mileage regulations that have been put out, for the 2030s, early 2030s, just around the corner. Less hard to believe, but, yeah. Six years. But we are going to, talk about that. And, tell you a little bit about what it might mean for the fleet. that's coming up on cruise control. And we're also going to talk about Jeep simplifying its lineup and why that might be a good thing. Or a bad thing for you.
We'll talk about those items when we come back on cruise Control, your on air automotive magazine with Fred Staab and Les Jackson. We will be right back. Cruise control. And welcome back to Cruise Control. We're just rolling through, you, you know, we kind of be on a theme this this, this show with technologies and all that kind of stuff. That's kind of cool. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you've got a story on the new standards for miles per gallon.
They're going to hit in 2031, 38 miles per gallon in 2031. That would be the average, up from 29 this year. I think what it means is just virtually every vehicle will be a hybrid. Yeah. now, these are, these standards have been have been, agreed on and then agreed against and then agreed on for 30 years now. And there were actually two big, big, automotive associations here in town that were created strictly to fight the mileage standards. Right. by lobbyists.
But anyway, they went away and used to be 50 miles per gallon by 2030, with SUVs not having not to get that much. So 38 these days with hybrids and efficient engines, no reason you can't do it. A lot of them do do it. Yeah. so I think you're right. More hybrids. mild hybrids. and I just think, you know, that this is easy to get to and it means a lot. It means, you know, a whole lot less CO2 going in the air, a whole lot less money going out of your wallet. Wouldn't it?
also be easy to just pump a bunch of different models in there? Electric models like GM used to do that would brand engineering. So you make the bolt, you make that bolt run a Buick and a Cadillac and and you know that that's how you do it. I mean, I mean, if you put like four more electric vehicles into the mix and make everything a hybrid, this should be achievable, shouldn't it? Well, it should be very achievable. And you're not getting much.
pushback from the manufacturers like they used to because, you know, the more and more of the manufacturers, especially the Koreans and Japanese. okay, fine. We can do that. Yeah. We'll make we'll add five more car different models to our lineup. That's right. it it'll and and of course, between now and, and 2030, I'm sure there will be some political wrangling to either delay it or change it a little bit.
Do you think it will, Do you think it will cut back on the number of large internal combustion SUVs? Do you think large SUVs will go all electric? Like, let's say they'll all be like the Ev9? Yeah, I think they probably will, because that's where the they just they just can't get the mileage. they're monsters because they weigh, whatever, six, seven, 8,000 pounds. yeah. So it makes perfect sense. Although I'm sure the people that own those will say, well, I want 600 mile range.
Okay, we can do that. Yeah. Of course. Then it becomes a 10,000 pound battery. It does. And and expensive. But they're already spending $100,000 for these huge things. And and keep in mind this is an average. So that means if you have, a lot of electrics, a lot of plug in hybrids, a lot of, fuel efficient hybrids, then you can still, if you're afford, let's say, afford to build in your line up a V8, Mustang GT, maybe that's a hybrid as well. Right? That's right.
and, you know, it's it's the corporate average fuel economy. So it's everything you make has to average that. Yeah. Or you pay a fine and you can still make it. You can still sell it. Yeah. Well it's easier for larger manufacturers like Kia or Hyundai or others, you know, that can spread this out and have a be a full line. I'll call them a full line, auto, manufacturer, you know, and let's face it, right, Ford and GM are no longer full line manufacturers.
They only really build trucks and SUVs and crossovers. they don't build cars anymore. Except Cadillac is saying they will have sedans in the lineup. But, you know, Ford hasn't had a sedan in its lineup for quite some time now. So, that's that's a that's a real interesting situation for them, you know, do they become a niche player with these things and not have a full lineup? But, I think it's obtainable.
I also think you're going to see a lot of, plug in hybrids that get incredible range where 100, 120 miles of electric range might become the norm. We've already seen this with the equinox in China, that there is a model that can that can go over 100 miles on electric only and then convert to being a hybrid. So I think you're going to see more plug in hybrids as well. But they'll have greater range. And typically now they get about 32 miles of electric range before they become a, hybrid.
So I think you're going to see more, more range out of those. And frankly, a 100 miles of range, would in most weeks last me a long, long time. That's, that's that'll go a long way. You know, for the average driver. Yeah. And it's probably more efficient to have that type set up that becomes a hybrid because then you don't have to have another car for long trips or, or rent a car or whatever. So, I think it's doable, but we would like your thoughts on it. What does it mean for future cars?
It probably means they will get more expensive. you figure I always use this rough rule of thumb. If a small crossover costs $30,000 as a non-hybrid model, and then you add a hybrid powertrain to it, it roughly adds about 5000, making it 35,000. If you want a plug in hybrid, it's 40 to low 40. So it's kind of like $5,000 per step. So it will add money. but then once again, there will be more hybrids. you look at something like, you look at something like the Kia Niro, which I tested.
It got 53 miles to the gallon. Yeah. That's easy. And that was just not the plug in hybrid model. That was just the hybrid model. you know, had a lot of utility and easily got 53 miles to the gallon. So more vehicles like that. And you can certainly hit this number without saying that everyone has to be in the small car, right. Well, that's right. And, you know, those of us who test these things, we don't we don't drive them gently. We drive them normally. Yeah, just drive normally.
Sometimes even less than normal. so, you know, we see these numbers. It's pretty impressive. Hey, let me ask you a question. Less, talking about mileage and electric vehicles. And, you know, I always said the best way to get electric vehicles is to start using them as delivery vehicles and things like that. Things that are on the road a lot can't.
I'm going to ask you, so if you were, investing, man, that, wanted to get into the stock market and said there's big growth in those electric cars and trucks, what would you invest in? What company would you invest in that has the best return? Electric vehicles that have the best return? Any guess? Well, I would guess Toyota. Okay. Probably wrong. Well, I want to try one more. I'm. Not an offshoot of Toyota. Nope. It is Bluebird school busses. Okay. I would never have guessed that period.
They that is the best performing EV stock out there. And they have electric busses, a couple of different types of them and that they are the best growth oriented electric vehicle stock that you can buy right now. It's not Tesla, it's Bluebird busses, school busses. Interesting. yeah. I mean actually and they're everywhere. They're everywhere. Not never not seen a Bluebird school bus. Yeah, I think they basically own the market. There may be other manufacturers, but I'm not really aware of them.
but I remember riding Bluebird busses when I was in school. You know, they've been around since 1927, believe it or not. Oh, man. And, you know, they only drives a certain number of hours a day. Yeah. You know. These busses have a 130 mile range. They take it back to the yard after the kids are dropped off and it charges overnight. So makes sense. That's terrific. we have some local, they're called dash busses or, you know, the counties have different names for their local busses.
And, we have some electric ones. they're quite nice. Yeah. And, I think that's a great way to use, EV technology. Hey, when we come back, we're going to tell you about Jeep. Simplifying its lineup is a good news or bad news? Well, might might be a bit of both. We'll have that and more on cruise control when we return. Fred. Stop. And less Jackson. Keep it buckled up. We got more to go. Dude. Cruise control. And welcome back. It's talking tech time, which we love to do.
And this time it's GM's axial flux motor. this this could, make EVs much more affordable. Yeah, electric motors are wonderful. They're simple, but, you know, powerful ones are expensive to make. There's just an awful lot of copper wire, you know, hundreds of miles of it. in a in an electric motor, and high, very high quality materials. So if they can, come up, you know. Well, let me let me start with how today's motors work. What do you think for a. Yeah. Yeah.
Because there is a good bit of tech here in it. And it's almost like from how I read it less, it's almost like keeping a keeping an engine in its powerband all the time, like selecting the right cam that you're always making torque and power, in the usable torque range and usable RPM range, let's say. Right. That's right. and they're known as radial flux motors because they're and they're like kind of like an alternator.
in fact, it is, and it's, you have a, you have a donut shaped, stator, which is the, that, that that's while the stator is, is in the is in the, cylinder and that's magnets wound with all kinds of copper wire. Then you have and it's called the stator because it stays in position. and then you have the rotor, which is what's turning. And it's fitted in there very, very closely, you know, spaced like a millimeter or two. and that's embedded with a bunch of magnets, too.
And, and, they're incredibly efficient, incredibly reliable. They last forever. Incredibly expensive to, so the axial flux motors, which is a little, little tougher to explain. An axial flux, but, it it it it has some technology advantages, that could make it cheaper, lighter. which is really important. And, and it but it needs to it needs to do what the other electric motors do, which is stay in that power band. So they say this could be great for the next generation bolt.
It could make they could put a smaller, lighter motor in there that maybe doesn't have as much power, but it has the right torque and it's using that. It's like building an engine. Again, you wouldn't design it to say, well, my maximum torque comes at, you know, 6500 rpm because you're not going to run there all the time. So you're optimizing this motor to give its best output at right, 55 miles an hour or something like that. Exactly.
And then the downside of the axial, flux is that the field, the, the electric field, magnetic field actually weakens at certain speeds and at certain times. So you want to maximize it, as Fred just said, for a perfect operational level. So, it's kind of like the electrical equivalent of the Chrysler turbine car. So of the 1960s that ran at 30,000 rpm. And as long as it stayed there at that speed and you used gearing and everything else, it ran great.
But you couldn't throttle the, the, the engine itself. Interesting. Very cool. More technology for sure. And you know, they're going to figure it out. GM is really good at engines. Yeah yeah. So we'll see. We'll see if this makes the cut for the next Chevy Bolt. To which they are. They are really thinking about that as the that's going to take on all the Chinese signals and inexpensive $9,000 vehicles, entry level EV vehicles. It won't be $9,000 cheap, but then again, it won't catch on fire.
Read it. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully. No comment on the old bolt, but, hey, let's talk about Jeep. it's, interesting story here from Jeep. And it could go two ways. Jeep wants to make its model lineup less confusing, according to its new CEO. And he looks at the Wagoneer S as an example for the future of the lineup. There's only one trim model when it comes to the Wagoneer S, and that's it. So you really it's not six different trim levels and different powertrains.
And you know, some are have a different, all wheel drive system or 4x4 system. He wants to do this across the lineup and it will mean fewer models. But I'm wondering if it's a good thing. Yes, it's easier to order. It's easier for them to build. But it might mean you're going to have to buy equipment that you don't want to buy, right? Well, that's that, of course, the dealers love that, but the manufacturers don't love that. They want you to be happy with exactly what you want.
But they make 12 different models of cheap. And, that's a lot. I mean, I can't keep track of them. I don't know about you for it, but. No, no, I mean, just the Wrangler alone. They make the sport. The sport s the willies, the Rubicon, the Sahara, the Rubicon x the Rubicon 392 and the Rubicon 392. Final edition. And you can get them in either two door or four door. Plus you can get different, powertrains in their, V6 hybrid models.
and then there's a whole bunch of other options to go along with that different, 4x4 systems, I mean, it's, it's it's sort of like Jeep's whole lineup is sort of like ordering a pickup truck. If you've ever looked at that, there's so many different options that you can get. And, yes, that's expensive to build and it's expensive for dealers. But I do think nowadays dealers order all top of the range vehicles. Pretty much, don't they? I think they do.
it's certainly my experience that they just order in the top stuff, and and if you don't like it, you can put an order in and wait for whatever you want to come. and that's it. because they have you can't blame the dealer. They basically can't order, a whole bunch of every single variation. They, they, they lose their all there. They go bankrupt in just the right. Right. Yeah. The floor plan. So they look at what sells, they look at what sells. And, that's what they order.
So that's why you no longer see base model pickup trucks if they even make them with rubber mats and a floor shift. I don't even think they do make them. But, I. Don't think Jeep makes them. Yeah, yeah. No, you'd be hard pressed to find a base model. You probably. When it comes to the Wrangler, you'd be hard pressed to find the, sport or sport s, I believe, even to to get into it, you know, maybe they have a loss leader that they, they, they put out there, but. For the economy model.
Oh but that one's sold. But we've got this one here that's got the chrome wheels on it, so. Well that's, that's our demonstrator and it has 37,000 miles on it. Right. And and coffee cups in the back. Yeah. I remember seeing that under showroom, a brand new Camaro with coffee cups in the back. I said, is this the shop is this the shop car? Where did you take for getting parts and stuff? It's like, well, and the guy said, what are you, an engineer?
It's like, yeah, I'm an engineer because I notice all the garbage in the coffee. cups in the back. Yep. Yes, I am, I'm an engineer. Anyway. I don't know, but we do appreciate you, listening to Cruise Control, and we want to thank you. And if you get a chance, head on. All, on over to all our social media platforms, including YouTube, Facebook, X and others, it's time for me to say I'm Fred. Stop. I'm Lisa Jackson. We are going to see you down the road by. The name.