You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. Hi folks, welcome back to Crimson Cast for continuing our great football coverage. Getting ready for the season. We're two weeks out. I'm excited to have Ken Beikoff on. We have some good stories about what he's going through. Before we get to that, just real quick, want to say a shout out to our friends at Home Field Apparel, who are sponsors of the program and the whole home network?
Check it out, man. They have Bomber Jackets, which it kind of started with. The I U Jacket, which I have, It's awesome. The I U Bomber Jacket that they now have, They're dropping Virginia Tech, Florida State, just some really, really cool stuff. They have a whole new collection of University of Illinois Chicago Fired up the Flames, which it's great for this time of year because it's super hot. So go check them out. Home field apparel use promo code home for 15% off your first
purchase. So I was joking about Ken. He is definitely fired up because he's having some A/C issues this week. A bad week for no A/C, but excited to have Ken on. He's the Pigs podcast host. Also author of the best selling book, Hoosier Beginnings. Most importantly for football, he is one of the hosts of the postgame call in show at the end of the game, so he gets to hear all of the ire of everybody who's calling in. But we try and do this every year, beginning and end of the
season. Ken, it's great to have you on my friend. Thrilled to be on, and thrilled that my air conditioner is up running, at least temporarily. Hopefully we'll get more people out here to look at it tomorrow to make sure that we don't have a problem. But you know, it's it's. A first world problem, to say the least. So I'm, I'm, we're, we're just trying to fight it through and teaching Nick and Charlie my sons how to how to battle through adversity a little bit.
Yeah, it's it's a problem I would take the first world out of. It's really, really hot out there. So it's it's a real problem. I I love the hot we we we went to Key West just a couple of weeks ago at the start of July and it was 110 is heat index every day there and it was fantastic. The hotter the better, as far as I'm concerned. No, I'm, I'm American. When I go to Europe, it's like I need air conditioning. I need ice. I'm not. I'm, I'm the ugly American.
No question about it. Well, no, it's it's, you know we're two weeks away from football season. I have so many things to hit on. I want to try and stay relatively positive. But I'm going to start here with this because something, you know, GAIL and I did a preview a couple weeks ago We're it's it's so tough to put where we are in context and every year is an important season.
It does feel like this is a very important season, the Tom Allen era, but I was, I was thinking about it, you know, the last time that we had a coach going into their 7th year at I U, it was Bill Mallory in 1990. That year they went 6-5 and one they went to the Peach Bowl they lost. The last time before that was Lee Corso in 1979 and that that was the team that went to the Holiday Bowl and kind of broke the the bowl seal for Indiana or the bowl winning seal, I should
say. What I find interesting is in both of those scenarios, it did feel like you kind of knew like what Corsos team was building for at that time. You know you felt like in by 1990 you kind of understood what the Mallory era was and what kind of team you had. You know with with where we're at now in the Tom Allen era, it just doesn't feel like we're well sorted.
Like there's the there's kind of two paths of, you know, we we were really good and that that's what we're we're building toward this also like we've been really bad and are we there? We're getting back like it. It feels very unsettled for a spot where we've only been three times in the last, you know 40 years in I U. Football with having a coach at
seven years. Well I was thinking about exactly this and that's the same thing the earlier today when I was thinking about what we're going to talk about on here. And that is if you were going to ask me, you know hey make some predictions about this team. You know lay out this team, I I can't help you. I I really can't because I have no idea what we're going to see and and and yet you don't want that to be the case this far into.
Somebody's tenure you get, you just don't you want to know what the direction it is for for the program, where it's going and instead what you have is so many new faces. You have so many people who are are new to the program and and certainly have seemed to have bought into the in the whole and you know Leo thing. But that doesn't mean that there's the culture that exists and that that to me is is kind
of the weird thing. Because you don't know what we're looking at at quarterback, regardless of who it is, we have no idea what we're what we're going to see there. Offensive line was not good last year and most of those guys are back. They they have to progress. But that doesn't mean that that they're great. Defense has been a mess. You've had Tom Allen be successful in terms of Indiana history during his tenure and yet six wins in the past two years.
And so this is a really, really important year for this coaching staff because at some point you're going to have to say okay what now? And so they needed more talent. That was clear last year, brought in a ton of talent during the offseason. Can everybody get up to speed? That's that's a real question to me. If, if they're going to be able to do that, you can look across the parking lot and Mike Woodson's team and he did much the same thing where he's bringing in a lot of new guys.
I feel differently about Mike Woodson because of that NBA background where every year you have to have a bunch of new guys come on and get him up to speed. He's used to that. I don't know that that's something that Tom Allen has had to deal with at this level, certainly. You you the extra talent is really important. But until they're on the field and they have any kind of history with each each other, to me it it's it's tough to even start to predict what they're going to see.
And we're not going to know after the first week either because, hey, you get to start with Ohio State, So that is not helpful to it. For an Indiana football program, it never is. And it feels like we always open with Ohio State. No, and I don't, I don't think you're going to know anything until probably that Louisville game or maybe even the Maryland game because you know, you play Ohio State like you said, we're going to lose that. You play Indiana State, you you better win that.
If you don't win that then it's we're we're done on you know September 8th and and so it's like you're not going to know anything until the 1st at least week 3 and even that's a neutral site game like I'm I'm not quite sure where Louisville is that that shouldn't be a bridge too far. The other stat you know on the same idea of kind of where things are at you know just quick plug to our friend Taylor over a bite sized bison, a great substack to check out.
He had this great chart that shows you know lost and gain snaps of Indiana this year by position, but also just teams in the Big 10. And when you look at the number of teams that you know, Indiana lost over 3000 snaps last year by far and away the most of any team in the in the Big 10. The only other team over 2000 snaps was Purdue which also didn't have a great season and also had a coaching change where
you expect some turnover. Again, this goes back to the point where I I'm, I'm, I'm trying to be optimistic because I'm an I'm an optimist at heart and I want to see the team do well. But there's a part where, again, like when you're in year seven, you know, you look at all of these other schools in the Big 10, they're hovering right around 1012 hundred snaps lost to.
To be at a point where you're losing 3000 snaps, it feels like we're kind of starting from Ground Zero again for the third time in three years, and it's not a great place to be in. No, it's not it. It really, really isn't. And and to me, that's the challenge of all this.
Is that you're you're dealing with a program that should by all, for all intents and purposes be really kind of have that culture and direction and everything rolling, and instead with so many people leaving, so many people coming in, you don't have that direction. Because you you don't know okay well. This is your group that you could really rely on. This is what we're building around. This is what there's a, you know changes a change after change after change on the defensive
side of the ball. You have an offense that I goes through quarterbacks like like nothing any other program goes through. I mean it. I'm, I can I look every down. And then a team will have this, a guy will get hurt, and then the backup gets hurt and the third Stringer has to come on. And Indiana, this is a regular thing. That's how you end up with Xander Diaman starting a bucket game.
You know, that's how you end up, you know with with going through so many quarterbacks and now we go into this year and people are are excited about the the faces that they haven't seen because they haven't seen them yet. And and furthermore, we don't know what they're going to do. I mean Taven Jackson. If Taven Jackson's brother wasn't Trace, would people be as
high on him? I'm not I don't say this as a knock against Haven. I I I I'm excited to see what he is is able to bring to the field but I also and you know he's well regarded. He went to Tennessee he came here it's it's all great. I I'm thrilled that he's here but would people be as excited about it. Brandon Brendan Sorbsey, the same thing. You know he he's a guy that's played a little bit but. I, I, I, you know there's not a ton of you know working snaps
for him to work with. So regardless of how they play they're still going to be freshmen who are getting their feet wet and at Indiana it at the most important position in in sports boy learning on the job is real real tough one. Same for the fact that you also now these guys, unlike maybe Connor Bay's like last year. Don't come into the season with any kind of mental baggage of having to prove themselves or overcome criticisms of the past. They're able to come in clean
and get that opportunity. So you know it. It just really is it. It feels almost, and I don't want to say an expansion program, that's not not exactly how it is. But with so many new faces and key guys leaving, this happens at at college programs around the country. Guys leave transfer in, transfer out. I get all that. But at Indiana, there's there. You don't have that tradition of history and six wins in the past two years. It it, it makes you worry a little bit.
At least it does for me. Now you also say to yourself, can it get worse? Well, I, I I don't know that we won't. We won't know until October what we're looking at. No. And you're writing like that. The backup quarterback is always the most popular because you don't know who they are. But you you talked about us on your last Peaks Peaks podcast. You know just dive into your thoughts on again another season where Tom Allen just refuses to name a starting quarterback.
Like, I I I what I don't know here as I've talked to other people about this is I don't know if it's you know, you're if it's gamesmanship. I I would say this like you're you're stupid. Like it's just like nobody cares. Like you're not fooling anybody. And like Ohio State may not even be game planning for Indiana at all. It's like there's like hey there's going to be a dude back there. Just go ahead and sack him. Like I don't care what number
he's wearing. It's not like Ohio State or Ryan Day is really worried about like who to scheme for. It didn't work really well last year. If it's not a if, it's not game planning, if you're not doing some kind of cute thing, if you're really at a point where like you don't know who your starter is, like it's also not a great thing. And there is something that comes to being like, hey man, like you're the starter. Like you're running with the ones you're going to get.
Like the the receivers start to know what your ball feels like to catch. Like there is something to that. So that there's. I'm kind of nervous that we're doing this all over again. It's the exact same thing I felt last last year. I just don't know why. I'm kind of answering my own question, but I will shut up and let you talk. Like, I just don't know why you don't just name a starter and especially you have two younger quarterbacks. Like you're not going to be
hurting feelings here. You don't need. It's not like one's a super high recruit that you need to you know, coddle or something. It's just like, hey, name your starter and you know, unfortunately the history of I U is the backup's going to play because quarterbacks just, I think I talked about a pod last year. Like I went and looked. It's been like 14 years and a lot of it's injury. A lot of it is just random bad
luck. But I think it's been one year in the last like 14 years we've had a quarterback have like 90% of the snap or something like that. So I don't know. But what kind of re go over the things you talked about in the pod? Like your thoughts on this inability to name a starter quarterback by Tom Allen? Well, it's not and it's also not
an Indiana centric thing. I mean they they they do this all around and you know a lot of different programs do this very thing to where they're going to wait until you know the the week or you see who goes on the field. I think it's silly. Look at the NFL names, their starters. And you know who? Who's going out there? Those guys know more about football than anybody on the planet. What? What are you going to do? You know what? You name your starter and you own it. This is our guy.
This is who who has won the battle. He's our guy. He's going to, we're going to have him out here and the team may know it. And I understand that. You know what? We're you know the team. If the team knows it, that's fine. But it just seems silly. It just seems like an extra little. Thing for for people to to worry about. You say this is our guy. He won the the quarterback
competition. Every week's a competition he's he's the guy that that has won the job and so now we're going to get behind him and this is what we're going to do and this and and again privately you're doing that and I get that but it just seems like, you know, mind games.
When you're your whether it's like Jim Harbaugh and not publishing depth charts which I think depth charts are stupid too but that's part of what you what you do And so yeah I mean this whole thing of repeatedly during Tom Allen's time that's one thing that I I I think is has been silly is is the half pregnant with quarterbacks along the way to where we're going to be this person. We're going to be this person. We'll see. We'll find out on Saturday and all that. You know what?
Say this is our guy, now beat us. That's what I want your attitude to be. Not not to to to play, you know, mind games that at the very least publicly because again, it doesn't make the program look great to me. Well, it's it's funny too that you know the the one year that Alan was emphatic, he knew who the starter was. It was 2021 with Pennex for Pennex wasn't healthy and it's like maybe that wasn't the right thing. And into the Harbaugh thing.
It's like I I hear you on that but it's like I'm I'm okay if you want to do dumb cute stuff when you're also beating Ohio State two years in a row and going to the, you know College Football Playoff. Like there is a part where you win two big 10 games in two years and it's like just how about you go with like just coach like stop the cute stuff
do that you know. So you also mentioned something in one of your other podcasts is concerning about the defense, which I've you know going into this year. I, I, I stand by it like we talked about all these other things and then we get to November and we're in a spot. We have a quarterback, you know, like Dexter Williams or you know McConnell, McConnell, McCauley the year before or Zander deep like you mentioned, where it's like we just have a quarterback you can't throw. We can't scheme.
And then it's like, well what are we going to do? Like we can't. We can't. And like, so it quarterback is so important. But you were talking about defense and it got me kind of digging into the numbers and and I'm just going to rattle some stats off for you that are kind of alarming when you look at Indiana's rank in the Big 10. This is all based on Pro Football focus. So one point of reference, but a
good one. Since 2017, here's where we've ranked in the Big 10 on defense 10th, 12th, 10th, 7th, 9th and 13th. But when you look at our our ranking the the Pro Football Focus like defensive ranking out of 100 going from 2017 to to to 202286.578.977.875.571.465.4. So our defense is statistically getting worse based on the grading. Our rank is kind of fluctuating
in that 10 range. It's it's interesting because Tom Allen came in as you know the defensive guy that's kind of been that you know quietly what people I think just rant you know think about this program just without really digging in like oh he's a defensive guy. The defense gets the offense
that lets you down. It doesn't seem to be that case and that's what I and it's you know I will end on this what I you know this thing again with the quarterback it kind of you see in the defense where Tom Allen you know tried to be head coach and defensive coordinator didn't work so we hired defensive coordinator and then last year he goes back to being defensive coordinator and now he's kind of tentatively handed
off the reins. But it's like the defense has just gotten steadily worse his entire time. I'm trying not to just sit here and shit all over the program and Tom Allen. But it's like when you when you look at the numbers it's really hard to to see where any of this improved. And then you you know like you mentioned you basically like the secondary is just all new. Like it is completely there's just no secondary from last year. It it, it makes you wonder like
where are we going? And I I don't know. The defense is is really kind of, I think is not being mentioned enough out there as a real problem in a downward trend. Well, ask Antoine Randall L what it's like to play with a bad defense. Ask him how he did in his bowl games with his bad defense because he didn't go to one. And it Defense is everything and defense is everything to Tom Allen.
And one thing that I give him credit is that, you know, you could, you could look at it as a criticism of him. He realized it wasn't working to be a head coach and defensive coordinator. He ain't the first guy to try that and have it not work out. Realize that his defense wasn't working to his standards, so he wanted to step in. And so he stepped in and did it and realize it's still a problem. He isn't.
He's at the very least willing to try different things when he recognizes that something isn't working and he isn't digging in and doubling down and and and going that direction that that I give him credit for. But there's no question that, you know, the the struggles on defense are to me a far bigger problem, far bigger problem than what Indiana has has dealt with offensively because Indiana's had a ton of offensive problems. But it's defense that is the issue.
And again, you have to. And again, I've mentioned this all the time. You know Kelvin Sampson is a dirty word in Bloomington. But Kelvin Sampson, he would say you have to hang your hat on something. Whether it's your rebounding team, you're a defensive team, You shoot 3 pointers, you have to hang your hat on something.
You have to have an identity. And early on defense was the identity of Tom Allen's football program and that has slowly faded to the point that that we are where we were before Tom Allen showed up. And so how do you fix that? Well, he's trying everything. He's trying everything to get and to get there and so I again I give him a ton of credit done with that. It's not as if Tom Allen forgot how to coach defense that that is important to me.
Now came Womack isn't here so that that also is another thing that is is important because he was a big part of that time is Tom Allen was being successful as a head coach. But it it really is a matter of you got to fix this defense. You you can't be when you can't have an offense that goes 3 and out as much as they did last year and then have a defense that is struggling, that is struggling, that is struggling and again, who's the star on defense?
Who's the star on offense? I mean it it it that's the struggle here that there has been so many different people. Everybody got amazingly excited about Dexter Williams last year, and we saw some nice things out of Dexter, who threw for 184 yards. You know, it's funny you you mentioned that like I've been listening to stuff and I I completed completed 34% of his passes. Well, that's the thing. He completed 13 passes and we took 38 attempts. And you know, we won that
Michigan State game. We basically ran the ball. Michigan State also missed a bunch of field goals. Like, you go look at our wins last year, there's a lot of like that was the best possible outcome if you play that game 30 times. But anyway, you get the win. But it's like, I'm with you on this and I hope Dexter Williams comes back. I hope he's awesome, like more
power to him, but. It's like, there's this revisionist history where it's like, man, Dexter was great and like, man, if he didn't get injured, we're winning that Purdue game. It's like, are we? It's like, it's like, and so he comes back. We're like, to me, he's as much of a question mark as everybody else. We have a quarterback. And we, we ran one kind of gimmicky game against Michigan State that there's now a ton of film on.
So anyway, by I hear you, I'm starting to see that narrative of like, wow, just, you know he's coming back in mid November and that'll be great. It's like I that it's I hope he's got. I hope it's great. But it's like again this is all based on hope everybody looks at the offense again. If you look starting, you run through the games. Last year, Indiana open to an O by beating Illinois 23 to 20, beating Idaho 3522.
After that, Western Kentucky scored thirty points against Indiana. Cincinnati scored 45. Nebraska scored 35, Michigan 31, Maryland 38, Rutgers only 24. But we only scored 17. Gave up 45 to Penn State, 56 to Ohio State. Beat Michigan State and still gave up 31 points. Gave up thirty to Purdue. So every single week you're running into defensive problems. And so that is one thing that if you have a bunch of new faces, you lose all these snaps. What did you lose?
Because especially on the defensive side of the ball, they were terrible. That was not a good defense last year. Not that the offense was good either, but then you lose all these guys and lose all these snaps. But it's not as if you were losing these snaps for guys that just went, you know, 9:00 and 9:00 and 3:00 and they're really had a great year.
But it's that said it's it's hard because of the fact that the guys that did have good years transferred on out and that is they're right and actually I'm on I'm on the players side with that 100% because whatever is better for the players is as far as I'm concerned. But it it to me it really is a struggle because you just can't hang your hat on anything with this program right now. No. And what you're right, like the the people who you know it's not a great team last year, you
know, zero wins the year before. So there's there's the narrative that you could say what you just did of, you know, like. Those aren't great players that you know, what are you losing? On the flip side, it's like, and I'm, I'm going to mess this stat up, so I apologize. But Taylor Layman mentions on one of the last podcast he had with Galen, it's it's something like of the, you know, 50 or 60 upperclassmen currently on the team, like only 12 or 13 were recruited by Indiana out of high
school. So like there's. And and so I, I hear you and there is like, hey, that was a bad secondary last year. So like let's get new people. But the other side of the coin is like you know when when you start going into the transfer port or you're getting those people like we're not Ohio State, like we're not Penn State, we're not getting the top tier. We're getting a couple guys here or there.
And it's like people you know, bad situations other places, but you know we're we're not the the best place on the street. And so we're getting midlevel people in, Like when you look at schools like Iowa and Wisconsin, you know?
Even what they're doing in Illinois, like the way that you're building these programs that don't have a historical amazing base like in Indiana, you know the way they're doing is they're getting two and three star recruits and you're building them into you know four or five star players. You know, I just, I again, I don't know.
This is where like you're Tom Allen is a very tough spot because you you're you're deep enough into your tenure, you box yourself in and you haven't had a couple of good scenes. You've got to turn stuff around very quickly. I don't know how you do. This is why Indiana's a really tough place to coach. But it's like the idea of like we're just going to become like the portal place.
Like that's that's different when you're Mike Woodson and you have real NIL dollars and you have connections and you're getting five star portal guys and your basketball where two guys can make a huge difference, you know, so I I hear you. But like the other side of that coin is also frightening that it's like why is there such little talent being pulled and
grown through our program? And yeah, it's a it's a great question And and there have been multiple players that have come in here and they've been really good as freshmen and you haven't seen them develop beyond what they were as freshmen. You look at Taiwan Mullen who was you know, really, really good as an as a freshman and Taiwan did not continue to progress. You know, he lived on the reputation of that and not saying that he didn't work hard, not saying that you know any of that.
It's just as a group, you haven't seen one group to where it's like, wow, that defensive line has really gotten a lot better this year. That linebacker group really has gotten better this year. Offensive line is really much better than they were last year. It's that player development that I think has been missing and and it is what puts you in this situation and you need to be able to to add talent and then build it and you could fill in.
Look, it's it's no different than the NFLI mean, the NFL has its draft and if you you have to have solid pieces as part of your draft and then they develop those players and then bring in free agents to plug holes along the way. But you can't depend on free agents to get to where you you need to go. You you have to have that foundation and I feel like that foundation of players who had been in the program for a little bit and you were successful.
A lot of that has been lost along the way because there has been OK, we need to to start to pull, pull guys in. Can that give you the possibility of turning a program around a little bit faster because you have guys who haven't been forced to develop while getting beat down with heartbreaking losses or negative energy that surrounds the program. They're used to being successful and playing in front of huge crowds and and and all that.
That's a possibility, but again, until we see it on the field, it's only a theory and and not something that we've seen in practice. Yeah. Well, and I'm this is not that you just something you said like when you talk about like that you know the negative energy like you know trying to get players who haven't had that. Like to me it's like that really. Again, this is not directed at you, but when I do hear that coming from the program, like it totally rings hollow because
it's like. You the program like you guys solved that. Like in 2019 and 2020 you had two great seasons yet people say it's the best coach in America. Like that was We had solved that and then you just it all totally regressed. And like count 2020. We're back in that count 2020, you can't count 2020.
I don't know why I am convinced. I am convinced Indiana does not beat Penn State in 2020. If there are fans there go back and watch that game and the way things and now these are obviously you know just hypotheticals of you know of whether somebody's going to was it would have been there or not but you know they beat Michigan at at home that year.
Indiana fans are used to waiting for the other shoe to drop they're they're waiting for it and when things are going going good and the team scores a touchdown we're like oh boy here we go and and and I don't blame them and I I don't knock fans for that that's historically that's what it would has been energy in a building impacts players both positively and negatively So 29 where where my biggest thing is 2021.
And that's real quick, I'll, I'll take you to I. Right because I I'm going to be more negative moving for us. I want to I want to defend I U football for a bit. I I hear you but I would say that you know they did play the like they play those games. They played in the same circumstances I think and like the Michigan game we we
manhandle Michigan in that game. Like I I think I I hear you I've been at all those Michigan losses but I think that was a game where like we that was one that Michigan game I I just the Penn State one we can discuss the Michigan one. I remember thinking like we look like the better team, like we just look like we were the team that was. Aggressive, you know, eager to get there. So I I hear you, but it's like I I do like 2020 still happen.
They played those games. Like, those are the circumstances everybody had to play under. Oh, Oh no. And I and I completely agree. I I completely agree. You do count it. But in terms of you had the problem solved in 2020, to me that was a little bit different because that that home and away advantage or disadvantage was everybody was on a level playing
field for that year. It was in 2021 I think where there was a real issue because of the fact that you had think about it, you had nobody was able to come to a home, a home game for all of 2020. So that means that the entire freshman class that were then sophomores and the entire incoming freshman class of everybody on campus hadn't experienced that negativity in in in in the way the the the energy that we all know is is part of the equation. And then Indiana just dropped the ball.
They just had a terrible year and then everybody who had missed out on the that year of games and the the incoming freshman all that they they got a chance to go oh okay this is you know this is what it's what happens here and I don't know that we've we've recovered from that players have to play fans you know it and their their energy I you know doesn't make you not know who you're supposed to cover on 3rd and eight you know that that that is a a player thing but I it just you
have to find a way to start to string together wins find an upset teams upset Ohio State all the time. Teams are upset around the country all the time. It's sad because you have Ohio State to open the season and every fan that that is is watching the program goes up. We open oh and one and understandably so. That has been the history of it. At some point that team has to step up. Indiana has to step up and put it together and say this is going to be different.
That is one thing that they did in 2019 that did leak over to 2020 that this is going to be different. It is not going to be like this anymore. And I feel like the past two years have kind of robbed a whole bunch of momentum from from that kind of attitude because who do you have that's going to be able to step up? It's going to have to be somebody for that. That hasn't been a part of the program the last couple of
years. And that 2021 season is still, you know, it's baffling to me because I went to the Iowa game that was, you know, that was crushing. But it's like, by the way, you know, that's a tough place to play. A lot of good teams have lost at Iowa. You beat Idaho. You come back at that game against Cincinnati that the home game, and you know that game was really close. Like the score doesn't totally show up, like that game was close. And then?
You know, I'm trying to remember, I'm 45 now, so I'm getting up there was like it was I think the Michael McFadden targeting call when it kicks out of the game in like the second quarter and it it felt like at that point it was like, all right, well that's that's the game. It's like losing one guy cannot. Like, you know, I'm not saying that's what happened, but like the the team just kind of folded at that point and then but you still win.
You beat Western Kentucky. You get smoked at Penn State, that's fine. You come back and you're playing Michigan State, who's ranked like 9th at the time or finished. You know they they were a good team that year. You only lose by 5. That was also a very close game and then it's just like you're done, like at that point. Then the team just, I I guess they were close in that Maryland game, although it never felt that was one of where the score feels.
The game was not closer, but then you just kind of gave up the rest of the year. And I don't know that that 2021 year is always going to be baffling to me because there's a world where they beat Cincinnati and they beat Michigan State and maybe you're able to turn things around. But like at those key moments, you know, that's that's something here that again I'm, I'm trying my best to be positive, but it's like at these key moments where you have these inflection points outside of 2020.
Where you know that the panics thing goes right and you're able to beat down Michigan and like, you know, panics gets hurt, but you're able to get a win at Wisconsin. All these other moments, you know it, we seem to make the wrong decision. Even 2019, it's like, oh man, the Gator ball. It's like, well, the Gator ball was like you made a really bad special teams decision. You know, as a coaching staff, you were not prepared. You let Tennessee get back. You had that game.
You let Tennessee get back into it. You made a lot of bad decisions in those games. There's just a lot of a lot of mismanagement. That that leads to kind of going taking the wrong turn in the choose Your own adventure that is the I U football season. Every single time. Yeah, I know. And that is that has long been the case too. I mean every time you have an opportunity to to, to breakthrough, to get done, get something right. If things can go your way, they just haven't for for multiple
reasons. Look at the game, that bowl game against Tennessee. Indiana had been lining up like that on kickoffs for a long time. Then it was just something that Tennessee saw. That wasn't even a decision. It was just something that Tennessee saw and took advantage of and and they were there. Still, if you are, you know, a coaching staff, you have to be
able to see that yourself. Because one of the things that Kevin Wilson used to do, I know he would go into his defensive meetings and they would you know show the game plan and then he would explain to them how he would beat them. And so as a special teams you have to look at your own own your own film and say if I was an opposing guy, how would I beat you? How would I, how would I beat us
and then adjust accordingly. So so that to me is something that is I, you want to see Indiana start to pull things together at some point. At some point it has to and it I mean it, it has to, doesn't mean it's going to be this year. But at at some point things have to come together. I think, I think, I think I had previously looked it up and I think since Indiana last beat, since Indiana had last gone to the Rose Bowl, that's what it was.
Since Indiana had last gone to the Rose Bowl, only every other team except for, I want to say Minnesota and possibly Northwestern have gone twice since Indiana last went in their one trip to the Rose Bowl. You know, over over all this time, a year has to come together at some point. And that starts not with and that doesn't start at the end of the year. It starts with games like Ohio State this year to where things don't go wrong. You don't get stomped right out of the gate.
You play with a chip on your shoulder. That's something. No, I mean, and that's something where, you know, no one is going to predict we're going to beat Ohio State. I'm not going to either. But it's like, you know, to your point on that stat, and I don't have this. Galen has a great spreadsheet. I think he calls it the Bayou. Football history sucks or something. But it's like, dude, every team in the Big 10 has been able to beat Ohio State.
Like, it's not like, you know, Purdue's gotten it done. I think Maryland's gotten it done. Rutgers got, got it done. I mean, Rutgers hasn't been in the big. Last time we beat them was, what, 86? It's like every other team in the Big 10. Peru doesn't play them every year, and then they've gotten it done. Like at some point you just have to go get a scalp and like you need to go beat Ohio State like it is. It's absurd. It's pathetic.
And honestly, everyone in I U Athletics should take it as an L and should be pissed off that it's like, why can't we get this done? Like Alabama is really good. Teams in the SEC beat Alabama once every decade like it happens. And again, Ohio State is really good. I'm not saying it's going to happen this year, but it can't just be. You go 40 years without beating them like every other team is able to figure it out, Get it done once a fucking decade.
And at some point you just have to do it. You have to win a game you're not expected to win and you have to do it, you know, on the regular really to be honest with you. I mean you know you you look at the Indiana and it's March to six, that's every year it's a March to six. How do we get six wins? And it's it's it's all about that. Well, you're going to have to be able to on a year beat Michigan. You're going to have to be able to beat Penn State.
You're going to have to be able to beat Wisconsin. That's how you do it. That's how it, that's how you do it. And it ain't going to get easier. You know, the expansion of the of the Big 10, it is not something that's in Indiana's favor at all and so. Along the along these lines I'm going to ask you a question and then I want to end with kind of your, your overall take of I U football. But I ask you this so you you were doing A C stuff, so totally fine. I had about 10 minutes to to do
a little extra research. I found this topic because I've been thinking about this and I'm I'm, I'm so tired of the expectation being lowered for I U football where it's like, hey, this is, you know, you just got to just be happy with four or five wins like. Because I I agree. We obviously are in agreement on this and I think at some point you just have to have the expectations.
Like this is what needs to happen at a program at the level we want to be at. Tom Allen has been the coach at Indiana since 2017, Since 2017. There is only one other coach in college football that has not won a ball game, but that coach has been there the entire tenure. I I will say, I'll ask you I I have a zero, like a 1% chance that you know the answer because I had no idea who it was before I started playing around with the numbers.
Oh, I have no. But yeah, the answer is Brett Brennan at San Jose State. It would. It would be sick if I knew that off the top of my head, wouldn't it? That that'd be awesome, right? But I was, I was poking around. I was just kind of like, you know, who else has, you know? And yeah, he he has not won a ball game. He's been the two bowl games. Like Tom Allen lost a ball. He did win. Conference title in 2020 is the Mountain West but still want a
conference title. But my point is I'm going to get off this very quickly because there are contract things at AT that are real that Tom Allen is going to be the head coach of I U football next year. But this is where I would say to anybody who who's listening, you know with with I U athletics is like at some point you have to be serious about this and you can say that since 2017 every other school.
In college football has either won a ball game, won a conference title or fired their coach. And I'm not saying you fire coach, but like you just you've got to start doing those things and to the idea of like, hey, you know, things are different here, it's like, no, like there's a lot of other schools that are bad. And like I went and looked, it's like California, who by the way, just has kind of like stop playing football to the point that they weren't wanted by any other conference.
They won the the Red Box Bowl in 2019. Their coach has been there since their coach Justin Wilcox has been there since 2017. So I just as I'm looking through this, it's like we keep on going on to these lists where it's like it is, it's absurd we're there. I'm not calling for anything to happen with Tom Allen, but it's like it is nuts that he's the longest one of you know, getting their longest tenured and just just not have a Ballwin. Nothing. Ballwin is the end all be all
but like at some point. It's wild that everyone else is getting those things done and we're not, but yet we're continuing to just do the same thing. Well yeah and and I get all where all that that frustration comes from. I look at Indiana from a big picture perspective in that how you plan is how do you get good and get good and sustain it over time. And that is you make sure that you you have guaranteed three wins with your non conference. You find a way to win and get to
a bowl game. I don't care about winning the bowl game. That's not as important to me as it is to a lot of other people. The reason being is because it is that one bowl game doesn't. Indiana's not at the point where that makes a season of success or not. They're not at that step. Your step is to get to bowl games consistently, then win, but win some of those bowl games. If you win, that's great. But it's one game you you win and it's and it's essentially A
meaningless game. You say for to fans, To fans, it's important recruits, they don't care. You you go to, you get to your bowl game you win. Then you start to be able to move up the ranks because you're getting in better recruits because you're going to bowls year after year after year. You you keep winning. The crowds start coming and and showing up and and at a much higher level. The attitude of everybody. We've won these kind of games before. We're going to come back and and win them.
I'm now and that's how you build. Everybody wants it to happen right away and and I understand that everybody's itching. Indiana fans are dying for this program to be good. Not just good or, you know, a flash in the pan or a happy story, but just be good to to to beat a beat A-Team and not only beat some teams, but steamroll some teams along the way. This absolutely roll over them. You know, Illinois comes in here and it's 38 to three.
You know, tear them up. And they did that a little bit in 2019 and in some of those Tom Allen early years when they were starting to, you know, hold teams under double digits or halves a couple of shutouts a year, that that's what you want. It's unquestionably taken a step back for a lot of different reasons. But this year is such a question mark to me because there are so many new faces and and it's just tough to to know what we're going to have and the team
doesn't know either. That's The thing is the team doesn't know what exactly it's going to look like when they're actually playing other other opponents.
And and that to me is I don't understand how you could have it. You know, solid player leadership, how you could have solid, you know, just just the player aspect of it. Coach, led teams are great, but at some point players have to take over and that to me is going to be a challenge because you just don't have any stars to turn to. The leaders to turn to. Aaron Casey is very good. I'm excited.
I'm hopeful for Cam Campers coming off an ACLI liked a lot of what I saw out of Josh Henderson last year. But it it's just it's those kind of things that just make you just so uncertain about this year's team because there is no identity, there is no star and it's going to be up to somebody to be able to step up and and kind of separate themselves. So, you know, for as the season goes on. Yeah. I mean and I know you're a fan I I I will take, I will push back just on one thing.
The idea like you know that I I think I U fans they do want it but I always bristle it like you know they they want it right away and it's like I I I understand the realities of where we're at but it's like we're also in year seven. It's like I get, I get in Wilson's first year and it's like, but it's like that is something, it's not so much at you, but it's like this is the like. You you get, This is why we have to be in Ohio State in 40, you
know, 35 years. Like every year it's like, well, this obviously can't be the year, but you know, at some point we want it. It's like, well, but then every year just it becomes like the calendar pages just keep it like a cartoon. They just keep changing and it's like at some point I do want it soon because like I'm 45, man. Like my back's starting to hurt. I wake up neck pain like I'm
getting older. I I haven't seen a ball win since you know 1991 and again ball wins aren't the end all be all but I've only seen you know 7 or 8 balls in my lifetime. I haven't seen a Big Ten title game like I I haven't gone to the Rose Bowl like that is officially no longer a thing. Like we missed out on that like you know it was only around for 125 years can like you got to give it some time like that's.
That is where I just like I I hear you and so that this goes into expectations for this year which I I'm curious what your thought is because I it's such a hard question to answer because there's to me, I look at it like there's two ways like there's the realistic like well you're coming off of you know A0IN Big 10 season in 2021, two wins last year. You know, to say we're going to go seven, you know, seven and six and go to a bowl game like that's, that's a big.
That's a big upgrade and we're going to win four Big 10 game. That's asking a lot. So in the reality is that you're probably looking at three to four wins overall, maybe, you know, two Big Ten wins. The other way to look at it is again, like the idea of like, hey, we're in year seven, man. Like in 2019-2020 they happened like you did have eight wins. You had six wins, like you went to back-to-back balls like you were building something, you know?
The narrative of 20/21 was like, hey man, this is a blip. Like things went, things went off the rails like we're coming right back to me. The blip is then like when you look at like, I mean it's not the best comp because of what's going on. But like you look at like Pat Fitzgerald's tenure under Northwestern, just his coaching, nothing related to what's happened.
And I know he's got fired, but it's like he was that, you know, go to a couple bowls and have a, you know have a three win season that he'd come back and like. Win 8 games. And so, like, that's where I have a hard time with the narrative of like, hey, we're really good. We we move the floor, but now we suck. That's a blip. And then all of a sudden it's
like, oh, we're rebuilding. And so I'm I'm not sure there's a part of me where it's like, hey, man, the expectation should be eight wins this year just because, like you, we raised the floor. But I think realistically, it's probably 3:00 to 4:00. But I I'm curious. Your thoughts? Well you know I I expectations are are tough with with this program and and with foot with college football in particular and especially with Indiana
because of the fact. That I mean, I mean it's they're tough because you know, you mentioned, you know, 2020 or 2019. None of these kids this year give a damn about 2020. They don't care at all about 2019. Like, you know, most of them weren't part of those teams. You know, some of them were, but you know, most of them weren't even a part of it. And so they've moved on from that.
Fans and media haven't. And I'm not saying that we should, but I'm saying that that, you know, for players, especially players that come in for this season that are transferred in, they don't care what happened last year. And then furthermore in their minds it's not going to happen
again because they are here now. And that's why I I tell, I tell people that all the time that when a team goes to a bowl like we've seen Indiana go to a bowl and it doesn't positively it it, then they have a tough season it they don't have people suddenly leaving the the you know, decommitting. The reason is there isn't a kid that has been recruited ever that thinks I'm going to go there and continue to lose.
Not a single one. And furthermore, if he does have that attitude, he shouldn't be playing football, You know, plain and simple. No, you're right. They all come in like I'm changing it. It's when you get into the day-to-day so. Everyone's the hero of their own movie. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And so you know those expectations. It's tough. And what do I expect out of Indiana this year? Well, they won two games two years ago. They won four games last year. So this year should be 8.
If they keep getting twice as good as they were last year, it's going to be 8 and four. It's going to be quite amazing to watch. It down and the expectations, I I literally have none because I don't know what this team is, what this program is. Could they be a team that you know wins are non conference game steals a big 10 game build some momentum the the new guys really gel and help out and and
score some wins. Yeah they could be could they be a team that never get it together and it's some injuries take some people down and quarterbacks never develop. Yeah they could it this is a blank page and that in year seven is a is a concern. I mean, it really is because you don't have a direction for the program, but the head coach who has been here for a while, he's trying to do something to try to fix the the problems he's trying.
He's throwing everything against the wall and seeing what stick and you know at at the very least he isn't doubling down on on what he's he's done before. I give him credit for that. But also the clock is ticking and when you like you say you've been here for seven years, stability is extremely important for a coaching staff and for a program.
Tom Allen has has been that stabilizing, you know force over the years, but it's also results oriented game and so you have to start seeing some real progress, real, real soon. I want to see a better team and I want to see a better team in November than we see in September and that isn't something that we've often seen here. That's, that's a great point. No, you're right. And that we, I mean I would say 20/20/2019 and 20/20 were the
last two years we saw that. Yeah, that's a great point we haven't seen in two years. Hopefully we do. The last thing I'll say about the Ohio State game is, you know, it feels like we we open our season with them way too much. But you know that that 2017 game was an August 31st game. You know the final score is 2949 to 21, but that that game was really close. Through halftime it's it's not it's not it's not a win but it's
not nothing. But you know like and there you know we played you know October 3rd in 2015 we played Ohio State that was 3427. Still relatively early in the season like there's there's a world We've played Ohio State pretty good in some of these early games at least early on there. There's a world where you can just catch them maybe way off guard. I I don't know I'm just like that I I go back to the at some point you just got to. Find a way to do something
different at some point. You can't have so many Goliaths in in the conference because unfortunately you're right. Like the conference is going to change and getting out of the East seems like it's a good thing, but it's like you're just picking up other good teams like it just doesn't. It's never going to get any easier. Let me let me bring up Ohio State in 2020. Indiana almost won that ball game. Yeah, what was his halftime score? We were. It was 28, seven, it was 28
seven. They were down 35 to seven in the third quarter. Indiana rallied and that was great. But they also were down 35 to 7 before before they bounced back. And so that one again, even if you know here you are, no fans and they did late in eight now. They rallied and that was great. Panics was fantastic. They did a nice job and he also threw a pick that without that pick, you know it it it could be a different game.
There's a lot of ifs and wins. But it's easy to forget that Indiana was down 35 to 7 in that ball game and and came back. Whether Ohio State let off the gas a little bit, whatever it was, it was still a hell of a game and Indiana nearly pulled it out. But they still had dug themselves a hell of a hole at at that point. And so these, these are the things that again, as seasons go on, like you say, these games become a blur.
And you remember that final, that Penn State game in 2020, You know that was a roller coaster as well, that Indiana almost choked that one away. You know, if you remember what, what the score was with that, I'm pulling that up right now. That one was a roller coaster, but. And. Again, like again, the W, the W counts. But that was one where, like, I think had that Penn State running back just scored. The game is over, yeah. He took a knee.
I guess it was like end of the fourth quarter, like they made a very tactical mistake. Indiana's up 10 at halftime and then stops playing defense. I mean that's it gave up seven points in the first half and 28 in the second-half, so. Yeah, no. Well, I I think I like what you said. Like I just want to see us play better at the end of the year and just make us feel like we're pointed in the right direction. But can you you get to deal with
all the fans after every game? I I love being their therapist. I know you, I really do I20. Years now, right? It it's this is going to be my 12th year doing it I think and 12th or 13th. And I thoroughly enjoy it and I I thoroughly enjoy the relationships that we have with the the people that call in because the people call in and sometimes you hear them and you just got to let them go because they got their wife doesn't want to hear it anymore man they
don't. And especially at like a night game you know they're they're you know they she, she doesn't want to hear it And so they call me and and you know our our cohost whether it's going to be, you know whoever it's been over the years we've had Austin Render. We've had Joe Smith, we've had Jeremy Gray. You know, we we've had a number of people do it and it it's, but it's it's fun and it's worthwhile and I think it's something I'm extremely proud to be a part of. Yep. No, you do.
You do a great job. I love listening to it on my drive home and look forward to another. I've still never called in, but I I do this. This is my own thing too, too. My, I mean, we need everybody to call some of those nights. Boy, you can see they're getting blown out in the second-half and you can see the tail lights going. It's like, no, don't leave yet guys, come on. We need you to call after fish
gets done. Oh, no, that's that's I call when I hit 465. Like, yeah, that's the whole thing is like I can listen to a couple calls and then get home. So there you go Ken. No, it's been great. I look forward to talking with you at the end of the season. Hopefully we have positive things to say. I hope so too. Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it. Oh man, dude, always a great time. I'm happy you're getting some A/C. Hope the air is cool. And hope the air is cool where
you guys are listening. Thank you guys so much for listening. We will continue getting ready for the season coming up in a couple of weeks. I want to thank everyone for listening for for Ken Scott for Crimson Cast signing off.