You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast. GAIL and Clavy are joining you once again. It's Friday the 4th of August, or as we will forever know it, the day the PAC 12 died. As a lot has happened in the last 72 hours in college sports. And many of you folks out there have been clamoring for some podcasting on this because that's what we do here at Crimson Cast. And so who are we to deprive the people of what they want?
And that we brought our buddy Zach Singer back. You know him from the last time we did a realignment podcast and he was a very popular guest. Always a very popular guest. Zach, good to have you back on the show. How you doing? Good, slow Newsweek we. We did a podcast 1213 months ago at most, and I didn't foresee the things we thought could happen would all happen inside a
week. 13 months later, yeah, it was we, we we thought about, we talked about all of those, like if you go back and listen, most of those things that we talked about did indeed occur. It just occurred all at once. It was not a long protracted process and there was a lot of lying along the way. There was a lot of, lot of, lot of purposeful misdirection, a lot of people getting let around by the nose on X by unnamed sources for negotiation purposes. So we're going to dive into all that.
We obviously are going to cover what's happened with the not official but clearly pending demise of the Pack Seven. Now I guess it is. I think that's what they're at and. Now as of 436 Eastern on August 4, 2023, they are currently actively. Sitting at that number, yes, yes. We're also going to talk, we're going to talk about all the things that kind of led to this. We're also going to talk through what are the next, if any, other dominoes that fall.
There's been a lot of noise from certain other parts of the country that I feel like we need to dive into. So we're going to tackle that as well. Before we get to that just a reminder that here Crimson Cast were part of the back home network and the back home network is brought to you by Home Field apparel the place to go for the finest in college fashions that the softest fabrics and cool designs. They just dropped a new UTEP collection which I I got to tell you you know the the old saying
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It's really something else. Yeah. It's an incredible roll out from home field as part of their announcement that they're joining the PAC 12. This is really just great for you, TAP. They've got that. They've got all the other PAC 12 schools in there. They have so much great stuff for Colorado School of Mines, which is one I own who's slippery rocks in there and to be all who's new rival, no so many different things. The Texas Western 1966 shirt though is so good. It's it's really.
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Again that's home field apparel.com. Give them a follow on Instagram as well. Always some good stories behind the brands, behind the mascots that you will want to listen to and watch. All right, and. They have an excellent tshirt for the 2023 national champions. I've not been on since that happened, a basketball Louisiana State women that you're talking about here. That's an irrelevant That
championship doesn't count. No, I've come with the men's basketball program that has five national championships since the war. Ah, the you can Huskies. So the one that's the program that still can't find a permanent conference, is that the one? Well, we're in one. It's just different than. Some of the four and a half million year in TV money, it's it's just like making 65,000,000 a year.
If you just change the numbers around and chop one off at the end, it's kind of similar that you know that it's it's a rounding error, right? It's just a. It's just a big one. Right. And that's the sort of bargaining that, unfortunately for them, Washington State and Oregon State. Fans will need to get used to Callen Stanford too, but they've got so much money. They'll be fine. Probably. We'll see where we go here, but I don't know where you want to start on this.
Well, let's, let's kind of start with, I guess, what things looked like about two weeks ago and how everything unraveled. And I think that this is 2 weeks, 2 weeks. That's it. Yeah. This was not. I was actually. I was out in California on vacation. I was. I was hanging out. I could see the Pacific Ocean from my rental unit. It was it was delightful. And I'd made some joke, yes. You know, you got neighboring bungalows. He was, he was asking me my opinions on media rights and
things like that. It was, it was great. Clearly I gave him some. Yeah, right. No, it was funny because, you know, I'm in a beach community out there in California and it's, it's fascinating the number of Big 10 like apparel items you see out there. Anyway, I was wearing my I U stuff, you know, like I normally would. There was Illinois stuff. Weirdly, there was, you know, there was some Ohio State stuff.
But you know, I'm, I'm out there and for most of the time I'm just like, well, there's not a lot that's going to go on because surely we would have heard something. We did have the, you know, the the the thing that really set all this off was the PAC 12 meetings. Because you know that you have these meetings, you'll have these, the coaches come out and talk through what's going to go
on with the football season. And there's always a statement from the conference commissioner and and some of the AD's about, hey, here's the state of the conference and what was the big thing, Zach, that was missing from PAC 12 media days for football. Well, the assumption was that at long last, surely surely George Kliakoff would have some sort of media deal in advance of it so they could talk it up.
They didn't. And then and then George Kliakoff dropped a real whopper of I like, I follow politics. But even this spin I thought was aggressive, basically saying that, you know, it's actually good that we don't have a deal. The longer we wait, the better the deal is going to get. So it. Is the same thing that every like single 33 year old male says that Thanksgiving around
the table to his family. When they ask him why they're single and it's never been true, and so was the case here because they waited longer and I think it's safe to say GAIL and the deal didn't get better, it did not get better. Well, and this is. One way to make it not get better, yes. Means if you lose more schools that that part happened that they that they did that too that that that's noopsie also that happened in Colorado.
Yeah, Well, so, yes, so, so in the wake of no media deal being announced, but it is coming, which they've been how how many months had they been promising that a media deal would be forthcoming where we had been? Saying watch out, it's coming more than I've seen that Dan Hurley clip from three years ago posted on my timeline where he said that after Villanova game. Well, the thing was going in Colorado was very who was like, you know, Austria 1913, They were just looking to go, They
were looking for a reason. They had said that, you know, they had their president, maybe it said publicly what we're expecting to see numbers. There literally weren't any. So Colorado said, well, if there aren't numbers, we're leaving because the Big 12 has numbers. They have in fact a fully signed and executed television deal, a lot of the details of which we don't know yet. Which I think is kind of been
under reported in all this. But then all this has happened and now nobody's asking any questions about what actually the New Deal has in it, right? So Colorado decides to go back to its old home, the Big 12. That happened, what, 9 days ago? If I think yes? And it was news that was greeted with kind of a shrug, which I found odd, like it's so here's here's a member that you went out and got a decade ago like. With the same school president now.
Yes, that was there. Then yes, you you went out and and purposefully grabbed this school from the Big 12 at the time and put them in the PAC 12. And then when they leave it's well, you know they they were, they were not really an important member of the conference. And you know we didn't need that large media market that they were in. And it it really was kind of spun in a in an odd way, and it gave me pause because I thought, okay, well, maybe they do have a great deal waiting for them.
That and that's why they're so confident about things. And then of course, as the week unravels, we finally get news about the PAC 12 meeting where they're going to unveil this new media rights deal and shock to everybody except the people who were paying attention. They basically got the MLS deal. And that's not really a good deal to have if you're a major conference to trying to compete financially. Well, yeah, because MLS can go get Leonel Messi to come in and
go subscriptions. I don't think Alabama is joining the PAC 12 so. There's the difference there. It's actually even different than that. So when Colorado left, and I agree with you, it was fascinating to me how all we heard last summer about with the
LA schools was the markets. Denver market leaves the PAC 12 and there's nobody's talking about the fact that they now lost to LA and Denver and are in the West which seemed well and the and the other piece and and this was the the funny wrinkle leading into PAC 12 media day was the whole saga of San Diego State who oh. I hadn't even thought of that.
Had that was had long been rumored like, this is the team that they're going to bring in and you get the San Diego market, they're going to help cover the Southern California market, which that on its face was always like wacko. Hilarious, but. Insane. But it was a plan. But they're going to do that at least. But it was predicated on the idea that there would be a media deal for them to join. They get to the day, essentially. And it's like, there's no media deal.
And then there's this whole saga where San Diego State had already submitted a letter to the Mountain West announcing they were leaving. And the Mountain West was like, all right. And then the president of San Diego State was like, oh, actually, no, that wasn't actually what we meant. We were just inquiring about whether it was possible to leave early, and we didn't want to.
And and that all ends up, Zach. With San Diego State announcing they weren't leaving the Mountain West, we're instead staying in the Mountain West and wouldn't be joining for at least another year. And now looks like they're not joining at all. Because, well, for certain aid to join, first of all. Second of all, the exit fee for Mountain West goes to $34 million and as a school that just built a brand new football stadium in Southern California, they have got negative $34 million.
So, and by the way, it came out yesterday that they do owe the Mountain West Conference legal fees $96,000. That are being deducted. So this entire charade has only cost San Diego State, is only cost them their dignity and $96,000. I'd say that's a pretty good deal compared to what Oregon State is going to get out of this, but what? Interim Sports Business Journal named their AD the AD of the Year, which is just such a description of how trade magazines work.
No, don't give it to Dave Benedict, the UConn ID. Maybe we can win another national championship to get attention and not do this shit, but whatever. Yeah. Anyway, so we moved. So. The Eagle State isn't going right, so the PAC 12 is sitting there. Not doing anything else. Having now in January George Kliakoff went to SMU, was on the campus, was photographed at an SMU basketball game. Not hard to do. There's like 6 people one of them George W Bush.
So you get they he was at the game so they had scouted SMU. At no point during these two weeks, by the way, has SMU been mentioned by the PAC 12 Boy, doesn't that say a lot about how that one so they they kind of tried to get San Diego State, Manhattan. They looked at SMU Hatton. They've lost Colorado at this point. When Colorado goes, Arizona, who was like next in line?
Arizona was like Colorado, but Arizona's been in the PAC 12 since 1978. So at whereas Colorado has been there for 10 years and has a lot of rivalries in the Big 12, it's a lot easier for them to go back in the sense they have some old rivalries. Whereas, you know, Arizona has a much tighter tie to the PAC 12. And also they have Arizona State. And we'll get to this difference
in institutions, I'm sure soon. But Arizona all along, it always been just as itching to go to the Big 12, big basketball power Kansas, they have a commissioner who talks about basketball, they have a TV deal. The PAC 12 doesn't. So Arizona's been trying to go this whole time, it seems, but their stance wasn't. We need to see numbers. Their stance was, well we'll see the numbers and then we'll decide. So Colorado leaves the PAC 12 last minute. I don't think this is by design.
There was an announcement that there was a board meeting. It was being held at like 10:00 AM local on a one day notice. So I don't think George Cleo called. The commissioner was really pumped to go in there and the meeting was basically George, show us what the deal is that you have and I've wondered is that the even still active at the time he does this meeting, but he goes in and he says.
We have an offer from Apple. It's very, very, very, very heavy streaming and it's around $24 million has been reported by Burt Mcmurphy, by Pete Tam. A lot of people, $24 million with escalators that are basically like an NFL contract. Clauses like they're in there, but you're not going to hit them. Obviously they can take you to $30 million which is about which is near what the Big 12 has if they get like. You know, 15,000,000 subscribers or something. Probably something completely
unrealistic, something insane. They could get there, but they're probably if you're an athletic department, you have to budget on what the guarantee number is. And the guarantee number was not 33 million, it was about 24 and a half million, almost like 90%. Streaming Arizona, Safe to say, was was not really on board with They were not impressed with that deal, no. No.
And so that led us to. This inflection point that we're at, where Arizona saw that as the trigger to do what they want to do, they're going to join the Big 12. But Galen and so much of the PAC 12 thing comes down to basic hubris and the issues with higher education presidents. Arizona State's president has been very loud for a long time about how much better the Big 12, the PAC 12, is in the Big 12. And was a vocal supporter of Larry Scott throughout all of this.
And Larry made a couple of not great decisions that will be reflected upon poorly in history. Much like the Zimmerman telegram, this has not worked out well for the Fact 12, but he defended the whole time. And the Arizona State president even, like recently had this statement where he explained about how no, no, no, guys like me don't do streaming. So I don't think we'll do anything heavy streaming. We can't do anything like that.
So like, really, Yikes. Quotes that were thrown back into the public this week because it's going down. And then when it's brought up to him a couple days ago, he basically walked back all of it, which was a giveaway that Arizona State. May have said some stupid things, but they were not going to be left holding the bag here. So we know Arizona. We're expecting they're going to go tomorrow. Arizona State's going to be
right behind them. Utah, which has been also very Pro Pack 12 in terms of the research institution and variants at Big 12 and doesn't want to be seen as being on the same level of BYU who's in the Big 12. But Utah also wants to have an athletic department, so they're going to go also. So what we're going to get is Arizona. Arizona State and Utah are going to go to the Big 12 to join Colorado and the gang of thousands. That's 1/2 of this scale.
And the other half that's pertains to your neck of the woods is in the Pacific Northwest, yes. And to understand that, I think you have to go all the way back to the original news from last summer about USC&UCLA leaving to join the Big 10. And you know, one of the things that immediately got mentioned at that point was, we'll wait, is the Big 10 just going to grab all of the top level football brands out of the PAC 12, which was a reasonable thing to think
about. Oregon and Washington, of course, being really the two names that you would look at there, that the, you know, the two teams that have competed for national championships in the conference outside of USC&UCLA. But it was interesting over the course of the last several months, especially with Kevin Warren, the now former Big 10 commissioner, having exited the scene.
And of course, whenever that happens, you get the source dumps that we read about in The Athletic or in CBS Sports or ESPN with everybody taking shots at Kevin Warren. He didn't understand college athletics. He didn't understand that the presidents in the Big 10 are were uncomfortable with the perception that they were potentially destroying the PAC 12.
That you know all of these things and you know, the the, the cherry on top of this occurs at Big 10 media day, which happens a couple of weeks ago when new Big 10 commissioner Tony Petitti says, well, you know, our only focus is about integrating USC&UCLA. We're not really interested in expansion. We're not going to do anything other than just, you know, we've got these two teams, we're going to bring them into the fold. That was also confirmed by many
sources. It's like, well, no, there's no appetite for expansion. None of the presidents want that go on and I. Believe was like correct at the time. Now I see. I I disagree. I don't think that it was actually accurate. Here's the thing, I think, and this is where a lot of what you have to understand with college sports, and I know you know this, but this is more for the benefit of the audience. You have to understand that with the Big 10 especially, so much of this is about keeping up
appearances. So much of it is about not appearing to be crassly commercial and engaged in naked power plays in the field of college athletics. That is, that is gauche in in the the highminded academic circles of the people that run Big 10 schools. And that's not, I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just trying to explain the mentality where for, you know, we tend to look at these things and I see a lot of criticism about realignment from people who are like this is all about
greed and dollars and cents. And it's like what? It's not entirely all about that because in this case, I really think that Big 10 presidents looked at this and said USC&UCLA, that's great. That's two top level academic institutions. You know, they have sterling reputations, not just in football but in other sports. We want to bring them in, but if we take Oregon and Washington, we are going to look like we killed the PAC 12.
Which is kind of hilarious, because by taking USC&UCLA, you already killed the PAC12PAC. Twelve's dead at that point. The body might still be, you know, walking around, but this is the classic We're going to cut the chicken's head off and it's still going to run around the barnyard for a little bit. That is essentially what they did with that move. But to appear that you just drove a stake through the heart of the PAC 12 was not palatable to a lot of the Big 10
presidents. And I think Warren probably pressed too hard but correctly on the idea that if you're going to do this, you can't just be halfway in. If you're going to, if you're going to go grab West Coast properties like USC and UCLA, you need to get some partners travel wise for them because otherwise you're going to end up with the scenario that The Athletic tried to lay out.
It's like, well, how are we going to do travel with USC and UCLA with all of these Midwestern and Eastern schools and so? That did enjoy the the The scenarios laid out included travel to athletic programs that don't exist, like. Like, no, not every Big 10 program has all the sports. So no, you can't just do 2 legs. You can't have them go to Illinois in the Northwestern, by
the way. Have you tried traveling commercially and now you're going to travel commercially with the traveling party between 20 and 50? Like, it's not going to work if it's just two schools. I don't know if it's going to work to begin with, but you have a better chance when you can commingle four of the schools out on the other side of the world here. As opposed to just trying to put two into the other 14 all the
time. So I, you know, I think ultimately from the Big Ten's perspective they looked at this and they said look we you know and whether or not this was logical and smart or whether it was just kind of one of those things where they were trying to keep up appearances. But they said at this point we've essentially pulled the plug out. We're going to let the water drain out of this thing and if it explodes then we need to be
ready to take action. And that is essentially what the Big 10 did in this case Oregon and Washington. Look at what occurs with the grant, with the deal, and they say we need to find a life raft, even if the life raft means that we are taking a cut rate on the media deal to get out of this PAC 12 thing because we at least have a fighting chance if we are in the Big 10. We have access to national recruiting, we have access to to prominence, We have a direct
path to the playoff. None of those things are guaranteed under whatever the Pack 9 or whatever it is at this point would present them. And what was interesting about what happened over the last 24 hours is that it really seemed for a while last night like this was going to happen. And there were a bunch of meetings. There was an executive session meeting for the Board of Trustees at Washington. There was one at Oregon. There was one at Arizona. These were being breathlessly
reported on on on X last night. And then this morning, surprisingly, we get all these messages like, well, there's been a change of heart and now Oregon might be going to sign the Grant of Rights deal. And they all happened like there was a great tweet that the the Reddit CFBX account had where they wind up the the tweets from Mcmurphy, from Auerbach, I think from Pete Pamel. And it's like, wow, these are
almost word for word. And then they were all reversed, almost word for word an hour and a half later. And I I texted you at that time. This has to be a negotiating tactic. No, it's a total coincidence that this happened. It's total as we're as we're on here. Apparently the Utah thing is pretty much done so as Utah going to the Big 12 now. What was interesting was like we knew that the proof that there was reporting that Oregon and Washington had been vetted last
year. And the proof of that is the fact that at no point during this was there really any credible rumor about Oregon or Washington going to the Big 12. It just like never came up. It was never a consideration, which I think is kind of fascinating. But yeah, they're going to the Big 10 supposedly for much lower payout and it came down to. Even at a lower payout, that's much higher than what we're gonna get from Apple.
And you know, one of the many subplots of this and we can get into all the stupid stuff the PAC 12 did to get to this point. It blows them on. First of all, nobody's talking about UCLA or Usc's role in this. You alluded to this. It's incredible. That's what That's what this all comes from. That's what this all is. USC and UCLA leaving a year ago is what this all is not Colorado leaving.
It's not Arizona getting antsy. It's not we'll get to Florida State. It's not that UCLA&USC took the heart and the brain out of the league and the wallet. And now we're just taking other body parts out. At this point it was it was a dead man. It was a dead man walking situation. And this is the danger to some degree of relying primarily on source driven reporting for things like this. And what, what? What I mean by that is this.
Anybody who pays close attention to college sports and wasn't talking directly to somebody in the PAC 12 offices or athletic directors out there, knew that this wasn't going to work. That when the PAC 12 hadn't produced a television deal by last August, that this clearly wasn't going to work. That there were not television partners.
But the industry and the journalists that surround the industry kind of talked themselves into the idea that somehow the pack, whatever PAC 10, Pack nine, was going to operationally succeed in being a smaller scale conference. They were going to add some smaller pieces. It was never going to work. And I'm I'm kind of disappointed at how credulously a lot of these arguments and claims were
accepted and put forward. Like it was just a foregone conclusion that the PAC 12 was going to roll on in some way, shape or form. There was no way, once USC and UCLA left, that this wasn't going to be the ultimate outcome. Yeah, I can't believe it happened this quick, but yes, we were going to. The fact that it all happened this fast surprised me. The fact that happened doesn't like I said and I did. All of this a year ago. And I'd like that.
I'd like to note, and this is in support of my my hypothesis, that the Big 10 was always knowing this was going to happen and was just waiting for the right moment. Did you see when Oregon and Washington are starting Big 10 play? 2020, 24 next year. They're starting next year. This is not like the USC&UCL A's as well as two years from now, somehow. And they've already released all the football schedules for the next two years in the Big 10. I guess what this was Rd. mapped
quite a ways ago. There's no way that it wasn't. With all those, I'll say this, all those stories about they had multiple models. We assume the multiple models was different ways of Rutgers and Purdue. The multiple models could have been of green and purple it turns out. And one of the many things you mentioned next year that flows my mind about all this, did you USC and UCLA were because they're leaving the PAC 12 at the expiration of its Current TV deal?
Their exit fee was 0. Basically Oregon and Washington pays 0 exit fee. The PAC 12 gets no money in all this. They won't even. I make fun of my Caresco a lot. At least the American gets exit fees they're not getting you. Imagine what the exit fee is they would have gotten for moves that. Cripple their conference. They would have gotten from Washington and Oregon and Washington 0, Oregon 0. Colorado 0USC0UCLA0. Arizona State 0. Utah 07 schools Pays zero to move leagues.
You kind of to pay the Americans $7,000,000 to go play basketball at Passing Square Garden. UCFN to pay 17,000,000 to go to the Big 12 USC pays zero. It's and this. What There is no leadership of the PAC 12 and this is there's two things I want to get to here before we jump over to the East Coast. So first is what you just said and 2nd is the disposition to the remaining schools. Because I think it's a fascinating thing.
But let's talk about where the origins of the PAC 12 disintegrating actually came from. You know, George Klivkoff has is is certainly taking a lot of hits. I I have sympathy for this man because he inherited an unwinnable hand. And and I think again, this is where there's been a lot of false bravado from certain people on the West Coast who have prominent Twitter accounts who have pumped up the PAC 12 as as a competitor on the national stage.
Realistically speaking, the seeds for this were planted in 2010, 2011, and it's ironic because obviously Larry Scott gets most of the blame. However, you also have to look at it, and you have to remember that the PAC 12 was this close to adding Texas to their conference, wiping out the Big 12 and becoming a truly national conference. Essentially, at that point, it was rejected by the PAC 12 PAT presidents. It was not Larry Scott flubbing
the deal. It was the presidents themselves essentially signing a death warrant that wouldn't be executed for another 13 years. And that's whose fault this all actually is. The president's hired Larry Scott. The president's stood by Larry Scott and stood by him. Stood by him. Stood by him. You think we're going back? They stood by him for a while, then they didn't. Then when they got George Kliakoff, well, I don't think it's great, but like, he wasn't exactly functioning with a great
hand here. And it's the presidents who have all along never once even considered. BYU or Gonzaga because they're. Or Boise State because well they don't really fit the big the the PAC 12. They're the ones who look. Galen, you and I love Olympic sports. We do. You love men's soccer at I UI do to it that you kind of know it's down now. We've a lot they think those things actually matter in terms of how this works. Like they Conference of Champions man. Yeah. Like and like I respect the
athletic accomplishments. I think that should matter. It literally doesn't for this. Like it doesn't matter. And they thought it did and like they talked about it like it did. They never. ESPN wanted to partner with them to to take over this. The I mean floundering is kind PAC 12 network like a year ago, not when TV fees were high like 10 years ago.
Like a year ago, they still wanted to step in and said we'll do a deal if you let us take it. And they said no. And they hadn't partnered with ESPN or Fox to start the PAC 12 network. And when they started it, they had, they did 7 versions of it. Top dollar because. We're gonna have set Big 10 as a network.
We're gonna have we're gonna have six regional feeds in the national and it's just it's hubris they they've over and what was the story about Dennis thought I believe had that last year when they started this they wanted $50 million of school after UCLA&USC left the the absolute void of hubris for the last decade. By everybody in charge of the PAC 12 at the presidential level. And yes, Larry Scott and to some small degree, George Kliakoff is what has led them to this. They have.
They have. They've been living in another dimension. There's a fun. Everybody else in college sports, the most fundamental error that you can make in negotiations in business is conflating negotiation with your actual assessed value. And for most of these, PAC 12, it's fine to walk into the room and say, well, we want 50 million to school.
You got to be willing to know what your actual market value is. And a lot of what happened along the way with the PAC 12 was a combination of the hubris that you're describing and also a lot of decisions that would have made a lot of sense a decade earlier, but certainly did not make sense between 2012 and 2022.
And you know you mentioned the split PAC 12 network contract where you've got an LA version of it and you've got a a Denver version of it and you've got a Pacific Northwest version of it. You the the idea that you're going to split all that programming and that somehow it's all going to make sense coherently and that you're going to get advertisers off of it doesn't make a lot of sense the understanding that.
We're going to get carriage on satellite TV in the western half of the United States for most folks. Have television via satellite. This isn't New York and Boston, where everyone's got cable box because of James Dolan's dad. Yeah, everybody's on DIRECTV and Dish Network and you're not on satellite and they were and I believe in the Bay Area, they were exclusive to Comcast. You couldn't even get the PAC 12
network on DIRECTV. I mean that's these are the kinds of things and it was it was additive and you look across the board they made a big push about trying to like partner with Alibaba to get the PAC 12 on in China they're going. To play overseas, they're going to get the PAC 12 network on on on throughout China while it wasn't on in Oregon or Arizona
where the schools are. It's like I'm going to fly to the moon and I'm going to the first thing I'm going to do is when I'm putting together my moon program is I'm going to build the moon base. Like, no, you need to build the rocket 1st to get to the moon. And also along those lines, you mentioned Comcast, by the way. Oopsie, just giving $70 million off at the executive level to to just literally like basically do crimes with the cable fees, which is the thing you do when
it's not going well. They're stealing money from Comcast, basically. And all these schools we forget, yes, we flush this out more because I think there's people that have forgotten this story that the the PAC 12 did not just describe it cuz you're looking at it right now. Let me pull up the IT was too Comcast because it involved subscribers. So there was somebody, it came out a couple years ago, that somebody, somebody the PAC 12 had had over to the degree of like. 15 to $100 million.
It was 5, 5 million a year for ten years in overpayments that they charged Comcast. Yes, they overpaid Comcast 5 million. They overcharged them $5,000,000 a year over 10 years. And it turned out that as they looked into it that like some of the executives, specifically the CFO and the president of the network. Informed Larry Scott about it and we're told to keep quiet about it. So that's that's not great. That's not really how you're supposed to to to do that.
So they had they they have to and this like isn't resolved whatever the new deal was that they were going to get at some point. Comcast gets $50 million. From these schools it's actually and it's actually 60 million because there there are additional payments that they could and this is the interesting thing because they were gonna withheld additional payments is like arrears basically and. That's how they're gonna pay for it, right? Like kind of how they're gonna
pay entrance fees. We're just taking out of your future earnings. Well, good luck to Oregon. Stayed on that one. Um. You know, that's not great, if I'm honest, for them. So yeah, they when you talk about not being able to get a TV deal, you know what makes it really hard? When your literal organization has a history of hiring people who do financial crime, they're not there anymore.
But it makes people nervous, I would think a little uneasy, in addition to not being really an appealing product when you the LA markets out. Your idea is to replace it with a school in a market that lost an NFL team recently because it's not a big TV market. So that's not going to work. You're maybe going to add like the 18th biggest school in Dallas is your idea plan, but you're not actually going to do
it, apparently. And and you're run by a group of presidents who just want to be at Williams and Amherst. So bad. So bad. And that's like, admirable, I think, the principles they believe. Are good and idealistic and would ideally be what works. But that's not where we are if you're in a Power 5 conference. And the difference, by the way, to your other point, that the reason that I respect the SEC the most of all these leagues, you know why?
Because they just do the thing. They just do the thing. It drives me nuts that the Big 10 really is trying to act like there's a classy way to murder a league. There's not. You if you're going to murder them, just do it like the The SEC would not waste their time with any of this. They just. Took Texas, they just took Oklahoma. They just took Texas A and M and they just said, all right, we'll take Missouri too. I guess they just did it. They don't have this above the board.
We would never do such a thing. They have no scruples about it and they just do it. And that's why I think the SEC is in the best situation, because they're not paying
eighteen teams right now. That's yeah, well, and just one last thing for those who haven't been up to speed on the PAC 12 approach to things, just a reminder that this is also a conference that was spending $7,000,000 a year on office space rental in San Francisco. This was something that Larry Scott, the former commissioner insisted on, insisted on having a 42,000 square foot office in San Francisco that cost $696,000 a month and that's you compare like the big 10s offices in
Chicago, $1.5 million a year. So the the level of of hubris again, but also just the absolute, this almost feels like a, you know, a private equity fund going in and hollowing out a long standing brand because the people could and no one was paying attention. That's kind of looks like what happened here. And it's not just that like at the big the PAC 12 tournament in Vegas, Larry Scott needs a suite that's like 50 grand a night. Really. He's like he had a 50 grand night suite.
And and you know, like San Francisco, the most expensive place in the United States, you have to put the headquarters right there, right downtown, build it from. It's insane. When they moved out last year because, you know, the new leadership realized this is a little pricey. Part of the deal with the lease was they had to restore that office area to what it was when they moved in. Because they were leasing, they didn't own it, so they had to spend a considerable amount of
money to put that. They made this whatever office space in San Francisco look like the big fancy PAC 12 net, you know, advance headquarters. They had to take all that stuff out. They spent a lot of money. Yeah, well, to. Build an office back that they
weren't going. We could continue to pile on Larry Scott. The one thing I will say, there was a great anecdote in one of the stories about his Like the post mortem of his tenure, Scott, among other things, stop the longstanding practice of giving every employee to Rose Bowl tickets as a holiday perk. He claimed there was a shortage of tickets. Then they later found out that he had been giving the same Rose Bowl tickets to a group of parents on his son's soccer team.
So look, and hey, they're all the same. Kevin Warren gave away rights to a Big 10 championship game. He didn't even have the rights to a different TV network. These things happen. Galen, these things happen. Just like sometimes you decide in the middle of all this that you're gonna hold a Board of trustees meeting in which everybody has a temper tantrum and flares out at the world, which is also what happened yesterday at Florida State University, a school that's really mad.
And really upset and wants everyone to know they're really mad and really upset. So before we get to that, I want to get to them in just a second. But I want to ask you, so right now, if you think about the the children left over that haven't got a home in the divorce settlement yet.
Because if we assume, as as you've stated, that Utah's going to the Big 12, Arizona's going to the Big 12, and Arizona State, luckily for them, will be going to the Big 12, you're left with some sad people in Corvallis.
In Pullman, and surprisingly to some degree but also not surprisingly if you understand how this all works out politically, some sad folks in the Bay Area because Cal, Stanford Washington State and Oregon State right now that's the PAC 12. That's that's that's essentially the schools that haven't been spoken for. Yeah, there's Look, I actually like, I do feel bad for like, especially the Washington State and Oregon State fans in this.
But, and a lot of other Yukon fans have said this, the thing that's really been galling about this all week is how after 15 years of dozens of schools moving from conference to conference, decimating their conferences, when they leave, it's a great opportunity for that school. They leave, but suddenly this happens and now all these reporters where we've just gone too far, suddenly it's it's it's poor wazoo and poor Oregon State. It was never poor Yukon. Yes, I'm selfish, but was never
poor USF. It was never poor any of these other schools. Never poor Memphis. It was never poor Wichita State. It was never poor Temple. But now, but now, now we've gone too far. And all this reporting, I really think these are all reporters who just assumed, well, surely the PAC 12, it must exist. It it just will. There was never any actual reason. It was. It just will. Everyone is standing around wondering how this could have happened.
This thing that they have been clearly building the train track. They've been building a train to the volcano the entire time and they hammered the final spike in and they can't believe the train has gone full speed over the edge of the tracks they built. Yes, this is the. This is the. Part that's just driven me insane. This is the It's the Leopards ate my face of college athletics.
Yeah, like what did you genuinely when when the when the when the PAC 12 loses the LA school, what did you like? What was your thought? You really all thought San Diego State a school none of you pay any attention to. It was just suddenly going to make it all better. But the four leftovers of the funeral, by the way, sucks, doesn't It's not very much fun is it Cal, Stanford, Oregon State or Washington State. But I do feel bad for, especially while doing Oregon State.
Cal is my favorite athletic department in the country. Cal owes about $500 million in bonds over the next 50 years to rebuild a football stadium that was literally like they had a football stadium sitting on top of the San Andreas Fault. The Hayward Fault, which is, which is more dangerous than the San Andreas Fault. But anyway, yeah. More dangerous. Spent 50 years not fixing it because three people were in a tree.
Got him out of the tree. Fix the stadium like five years ago and now this happens and there's them. A million other issues with like Cal athletics, like the naming rights that went to the like to the the crypto coin thing that came apart last year. Cal's my favorite. They they rule, they're awesome. They're in trouble. Stanford, I think we'll be fine because I I don't think they can. Stanford will happily trot off into independence. I'm not worried about them.
They have the money and I don't know, I've been saying for a while, I think Stanford and Cal are kind of quiet quitting on major college football. A lot of their actions indicate that or have indicated that in the last 10 years. So I think while this new reality sucks for them on the surface, I think it gets somewhere they kind of wanted to go. Yeah, I think that's an interesting approach. OSU in Oregon State.
I hope you like trips to Ogden. I'd like to welcome them to the Mountain West. They just, That's what this is. There's nowhere else to go at this point for them. I mean if they want to keep football, which I'm assuming both of them do, there's you've got the Mountain West, you've got independence or you've got what the Sunbelt. I mean, those are those are essentially your options at this
point. The really, really dark place that it goes is Galen. Can you give me a reason why the Mountain West would add those to it's? It is an interesting point. I you know the Mountain West right now is on a six year media deal that pays $270 million over the course of those six years. So it's about $45,000,000 a year for the conference. When you look to re up that, what value do you get by adding Oregon State and Washington State and not? Just not just that.
So anybody who knew who comes in right, you need to make sure that the pie doesn't get cut smaller for everyone. Who has the rights, Gallon? Who does have the rights? CBS and Fox, Yes. I think Fox might be covered in the Pacific Northwest and now CBS is because CBS just signed the deal with the Big 10 and guess what we just gave you Oregon and Washington. Yeah. So that's the other issue they have like I I hope Washington State and Oregon State would get into the Mountain West.
I'm not that punitive or anything I have no, but it's I think it's a legitimate question of does the Mountain West look at this and say what value is being added like at this like with you rank in the Mountain West, the teams that are there and you look at the brand value of the teams in the Mountain West and then you try to place Oregon State and Washington State within that rank order. They're not, first and second, I don't think. No, no, they're not.
They're really not. And it's a shame for them. I don't know how you, I don't know if they can bring in the, I don't even know the amount of money to be fair, to make the pie the same. Yeah, and additional the headaches and stuff and the knowledge that the second you bring them in, they're trying to get out anyway. So, like, everyone has just assumed they're going there. I think they'd probably go there, but I don't think it's a
guarantee. And the thing about we deal without here is to bring a little E is like the idea that you can't be a football independent. It's hard. You can do it. You can do it like if you're you kind of new mass, well your rival is doing it. You've got army down the road, you know. So like of the four independence, one of them's not really going to acknowledge your existence in our name. But like the other, they're all
here. Football independence in the Pacific Northwest is a is a real tough haul. Idaho didn't even bother. My hope is that Idaho somehow this helps Idaho football. I want the Kibby Dome to rise again, but that's my real fear. I think like does it sounds crazy? Is Oregon State going to be an FBS program or are they going to go to FCSI don't think that's where this goes, but I think that it's on the table.
At this point, and they spent a lot of money upgrading a football facility, there was that very emotional red CFB post where I rolled my eyes at like, no, nobody actually made Washington state spend $60 million on the football stadium. Like you decided to do that. Guys, you were misled. You were led astray. But like, you know, that doesn't. That might be the nicest stadium in FCS in five years. Unfortunately, because I don't know where you go. Callen Stanford.
I think Callen Stanford would happily embrace football independence. They have a lot more money. They'll do it. They can do the high minded academic thing. I'm sure Nordam will somehow work something out. I mean definitely with Stanford, obviously. And they don't care about really other sports. I this is me that you kind of. I'm fascinated with what happens.
What does Terra Vanderveer do? What happens to Stanford women's basketball, which is a powerhouse program in a sport that has a growing rights deal like like that is something. I'm fascinated by that. I know it was like page 85 of all this. What happens to that? In addition, all the other so many sports, they're grayed out, which we say don't really matter but are going to get absolutely kneecapped here by this. I think Stanford and Cowell will
be fine. Washington State. Oregon State, I'm, I'm, I'm really would be scared. Let's switch gears and let's switch time zones. So you alluded to the Florida State thing earlier. So in the midst of all of this occurring, what was it, yesterday or the day before? This one's good, because as depressing as the Wazza Oregon State thing might be, we can laugh about this one. This one's just funny. Florida State has a a press conference where remind me this.
Was a press conference. This was a figure the trustees meeting, you're right. And in it the, the statement is made essentially that unless there is a significant alteration of the ACC revenue distribution model in favor of paying Florida State basically the Texas deal that they were getting in the Big 12 that they were going to have to look at that changing their circumstances. And that was actually. That was the opening. That was the milder of the statement, Zach.
Yeah, as this thing goes on, every statement made by separate board members and the the the AD like there are things I'm thinking of where I'm like, well they can couch it in this and then someone to make a statement saying no, you know that thing you think it's couched and that's not going to work. So you know this plan the ACC has to redistribute revenue. That's not nearly enough. That's not good enough. As like fine enough, they'll leave.
It's like it literally has to happen by next August. We are leaving. We are going to leave. We are going to leave. They were. I've never seen anything like this, they straight up said. Unless something drastically changes, which we don't think will, we are going to leave at some point in the next 12 months. And a couple of things on that. First of all, the deadline for announcing that you would be leaving at the end of this upcoming year is August 15th.
So we're talking about 9 days or 11 days from now that was, bolstered Boyd. I'm not sure what word to use here by the news today that apparently Florida State is investigating our old friend Private Equity to see if they can find the money to get out of the Grant of Rights deal that they signed until 2036. I'm so excited for Christian Ronaldo to be on the sidelines of a of a Florida State Miami game this year in a Seminals the Seminoles jersey This I It's the
perfect. It's funny because Matt Brown had been reporting on the possibility couple of So I even credit about what it private because private equity has gone nuts in in soccer and Saudi Arabia has gone nuts in soccer and Saudi Arabia's private investment fund has gone nuts in soccer and golf. And he wrote the article could have and it was like, yeah, private equity could absolutely jump in here. And I mean if you gave me any of the 362 Division One programs to pick who is the likeliest?
To open, to run the private equity with open arms. My number one pick was Miami, but my number 2 pick would have also been my number one pick. But yes, Florida State's absolutely second. Who was your one? Miami was also my number one. Yeah.
No, no question, but. Florida State, Florida State, it make it because the contract they're in the situation, the grant of rights goes through 2036 and so if you want to try and buy it out, it's like what 300 million or something Supposedly it's I think it's I think it's like 160 million.
But I've I've seen different numbers and just to explain to the people who have heard about this but they're not sure or they've forgotten essentially what occurred with the ACC and their granted rights back in 2014. I believe it was the previous ACC commissioner John Swofford was trying to do negotiations. The ACC wanted their own network because the SCCSC. C had a network, so they wanted
A network. Big 10 had a network and the ACC actually very similar to the PAC 12, really struggles with understanding what their actual spot in the pecking order is. And you know, then there's the same level of hubris applied slightly differently. But it's essentially what produces what happened here, which is Swofford goes and does a deal with ESPN and he's like it's essentially the Neville
Chamberlain deal. It's the piece in our time deal of the ACC where it's like I have, I've solved our financial problems for the next 17 years because I've signed this deal with a with ESPN that is essentially an ironclad contract that runs out until 2036 and. The position was, well, we'll give you a network. We like you, we don't love you. So we'll do it, but it's going to be on our terms. And he just said fine, and their lawyers are much better than his
lawyers. And I don't think Florida State even knows what lawyers are. So the rights for every ACC school are not actually owned by the schools or the ACC. It's secondly like a contract. Between the that the ACC hold, actually I should say the ACC holds the rights and controls them through 2036 and then sells that to ESPN2036.
And so in 2021, which was before the new deal signed by the SEC, before the new deal signed by the Big 10, the payments to the Big 10 and SEC schools from their media deals and networks was already $20 million more per school per year than what the ACC schools were getting off of their deal. And the problem is the ACC it's going to be. It's going to be more than 20, Yeah. It's going to be like close to 70. Sixty $70 million difference a year per year per school and.
So the A/C now until 2036, yes. So this says that is what's fascinating is every ACC school willingly signed this contract surrendering their their rights. And the penalties are, I mean there's punitive and then there's the penalties in this deal. It's almost impossible. It's basically impossible to get out of the exit fee. I'm looking at it now. According to this report is $120 million and you forfeit your media rights back to the conference for the remainder of the contract.
That second part is the part that I'm pretty certain no one at Florida State like. So any money that you would go get elsewhere would go back to the the ACC, which is why Maryland to some degree jumped when they did among other. Like they signed it, they read it, but like they had lawyers,
we assume. The, the, the words like object permanence is an issue here because they can pay all the money they want, and they don't seem to realize they're not on TV though until 2036. Like they don't control it. There's and I don't. Think the ACC is going to be in a rush to put them in the Big 10 on the ACC now?
Well that was the fascinating thing about this story today that they were looking at private equity or sovereign wealth funds potentially because the whole the way that works is you know you go and and a company fronts you the I guess the $120 million or whatever and then the company earns that money back on on revenue from media rights and other sales. But that doesn't exist here according to this grant of
rights. And then, you know, so it's it's great copy in the newspaper, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of the grant of rights that all these schools are in. And the other issue that you run into here, which I think is fascinating, is that when you think about the way that the ACC is kind of positioned within everything, you're, you're really talking about a situation where a lot of those schools are probably just fine with that amount of money.
You've got a relatively small number that aren't. Florida State floated a story yesterday that they might consider suing the ACC for fraud by claiming that I swear, I swear that I was reading this reporting that they would sue them for fraud by claiming that John Swofford and the ACC offices negotiated and gave them information in bad faith. I don't know how they it's it. These are these fraud cases like this are essentially impossible to prove in court.
It it never actually works. But this is the direction that they're trying to go, at least in the public, as a trial balloon to see what the atmosphere is on this. And GAIL, the funniest part about all of it. We've laid out the legal reasons why it's not going to work. We've laid out the monetary reasons why it literally doesn't work. We know that private equity kills everything. We know that you're not going to be able to sell a pull a lever and bars.
The studios here, where are they going to go? There's not a league for them to go to is the thing. Unless they think they can get 70 million a year as an independent, which? Probably not, if I'm honest. Well, this is this is the big fascinating thing because. No, so. A place doesn't exist. This is and this is where people need to understand how the Big 10 thinks about things and how the SEC thinks about things. The Big 10 would never accept Florida State.
The academics are not good at Florida State. It's just it's not it's not a place that the Big 10 would ever seriously consider adding. There are schools in the ACC that the Big 10 would consider adding because their cultural fits and academic fits. Obviously North Carolina is a big one. Pit would be 1. Miami is a stretch, but it has. It's a hell of a lot closer to what the Big 10 will be looking for. Then Florida State would be that.
So a lot of the response to that has been, Oh, well, they'll just go to the SEC. And I'm just like, what members of the SEC want to elevate Florida State to their level in recruiting this Florida want Florida State to suddenly be in the same conference recruiting against them? Does Georgia want them doing that? Does Auburn want them doing that? I mean, those are the three most proximal SEC schools to Florida State, and I think they're very happy with where Florida State
is right now. Thank you. See if you're doing pretty well and it goes back to actually the the PAC 12 with the Comcast thing like you think. Anything they've done the last couple days has the people they see see going. Yeah, these are the people who want to be in business with these. These are the sort of of of screaming public and whine and yell and Khrushchev style. Bang your shoe on the table,
folks. That are going to help our conference that is notoriously effective by just being seals on the beach in the dead of night. This is like the SSC moves quietly. Well, you don't know the Ssc's killed you till you're dead. Well, this is they're. Going to bring it these charlatans. I tell you the the greatest example of where this comes off badly. And I think this will hurt Florida State even more in this argument. Look at how Nebraska has acted in the Big 10 so far.
They have been this same kind of braying, entitled entity essentially since they entered and it's one them zero friends like across the board in the conference offices in the other schools. And you're right, I mean you got
a preview of that. Now if you're at the SEC looking at the Big 10 and you've dealt with this power, this, this past power that is well beyond their sell by date, Who still thinks that it's 1985 Florida State. Like there's so many reasons why the SEC would look at them and say there's zero reason why we want to give these people that much money or I put them on our competitive level. I liked a few months ago before even this hit his he fit a few months ago there.
I'd like director straight up said that like it was disgusting to him that Central Florida is going to make more money than them, which they are like straight up name dropping other programs in the state like there it goes back to there's like no couth with them. They're not. They're. They're very They're your loud uncle of Thanksgiving trying to explain to you the real facts about January 6th, Okay. And if you just listen, you'll
understand about these like. And at the end of the day, it blows my mind because there's nowhere for them to go. There's no place to go for them and there's no incentive. For anyone who holds their rights to give them like it's a great deal. For ESPN, it's an incredible deal. Why on earth would they offer that deal to give them like that was true five years ago? Why would they? I don't know if anyone's seen any of the recent report Hajj around the Walt Disney Company
or around media. There's not a lot of money out there for anyone right now. And so that's why Oregon and Washington aren't getting a full share. There's no more money at the end. The state needs to show a place to go. They haven't done that yet. That's like they are. A plan without a dream is a wish. Florida State, to quote Herman Edwards, They want to go to a place they can identify and make an amount of money.
The supplier of doesn't exist. I really want to have a billion dollars, GAIL, and I really do. I at least can go buy the Mega Millions ticket. I don't know where Florida State thinks the money's coming from. That's with all these deals. The thing for me is it where's the money? This big, big new college ball playoff? Everyone assumes it's getting more money. Where from who? Where? And I think Fox, ESPN, they each bring some money and you get
more money. Where Florida State Amazon didn't want to save the PAC 12 and they're in Seattle. Yeah, it's it's amazing to me because that Clemson's facing the same issue now. They're not as loud as Florida State, but but also, but there's but other school. I mean, Virginia Tech is in the same boat. This is a program that takes us up. Miami is in the same boat. North Carolina is in the same boat. You know, I mean it is.
It is what I'm fascinated by, what I'm fascinated by and where I think we need to watch things is twofold. A like they're really, there doesn't appear at this point to be a legal trigger. There's no way to implode the ACC, which is really the that's what a lot of these schools I think you're going to want to do. Now you make a great point, and this has been pointed out by others as well. There's not much, There's no
money in the pot. Like Disney's talking about spinning ESPN off or selling it off, I mean. The the live rights aspects of this are the money is it is starting to dry up. I mean MLS we laughed about the the deal with Apple, but as you pointed out MLS at least had the ability to go and improve their overall market value with players. They got the ability to do that. They could make it better. There's no like the PAC 12 can't, But like as we said, PAC 12 can't go out and just like
get Texas or something. So what I where I really get interested with this though. So now you got the big 10 at 18 you got the SEC, these are the two powers. You got the Big 12 who is like we are glad to be the 3rd place Football Conference and we are going to be the number one basketball conference most likely, yeah, the number one lesson and all this is know what you are and be fine with it.
And so as we talk about the College Football Playoff, as we know, the playoff is run by the conference commissioners. If I'm the Big 10 in the SEC. Why am I? Am I going to give an extra spot to the ACC? Why on earth would they deserve it?
What did it so now? An additional source of revenue and additional source of prominence that you've been counting on as the ACC is most likely not going to be there because the big boys at the table and girls don't have to give it to you and they're not going to give it to you given this current environment. Right. This is why all along I was I had absolutely no interest in the University of Connecticut join the Big 12. Like it's nice to break your mark likes us.
I like that. I appreciate it. I don't think anybody else there liked us and I I didn't like them like it just I didn't think it was a fit, is what I'm saying because as Florida State I didn't think they would accelerate it. The possible lifebulb for my school if we were to do anything at all different would be a reunion with some of the our old friends, the ACC.
And what would accelerate that is if Florida State and the socalled Magnificent 7, all those schools do something and I don't know what their legal recourse is. I do think the start of it is they needed somebody to just be willing to be the clown. And I think Florida State didn't realize they were putting the paint on the clown paint as they're painting their face, but they've assumed the role
nonetheless. And so now if that is a split, then my school benefits possibly if they get to reunite with Syracuse and I mean imagine Duke at the Big East tournament. Weird. But that would be awesome to be incredible. And because also, I think that's how that split that ends up happening. Like I think Wake Forest would love to still be in a league with Clemson. But I I can do math. I don't think that's likely for them. And now it becomes, yeah, Florida State isn't going to be
able to go it alone. I don't think they're going to be able to go anywhere. So they're going to need to create some sort of new thing with those seven schools, what that thing is, that's I think as of Monday, that's where the next frontier is. And that I don't think is an immediate thing. That is a long, legal, ugly drawn out process that gets drawn out to the point where maybe that's when the markets have changed, the economic headwinds have changed, streaming is more permanent
prominent. Maybe then somebody is willing to do that because right now they aren't. Right now Netflix isn't Apple, Apple's willing, but we, I mean you know, Oregon would rather 100 year old conference die than take that deal. Not a great endorsement, if I'm honest. For them and Amazon, who knows where they are in five or six years. I think that's where the next frontier is and that's Florida State can yell and they can scream and they can plan all
they want. I don't see where they they're going to. Someone's going to have to sue, and I'm not going to say that I don't like their chances if they do, but you never know. We we need to wrap up because it's almost dinner time. But two other things to think about here for those of you out there. First of all, what you just said about. Is there some kind of mechanism to implode the ACC?
That would change a lot of things, obviously, but it's not worth talking about because I certainly don't see where that comes from it. And you've talked about that as well. Who that would affect to be Notre Dame, who I find it curious at this point. As much as we keep hearing, oh, they're they're going to get this, they're going to triple their TV money and they're going to sign this big deal. It's August 4th. Their their contract expires with NBC.
Next year and we've yet to see a new deal announced. I'm sure Notre Dame has money waiting for it. I do wonder at this point if it's the amount of money that they think is waiting for them, because I feel like if that money was actually there, that deal would have been signed, sealed and delivered by this point. So what do you see as the route that Notre Dame takes? They keep maintaining this idea. We're going to stay independent. Is that really the route that they can take as they move
ahead? I mean, they think so. People back was going to be in charge at the 80 at Notre Dame, who's in charge of NBC Sports. So, I mean, you know, it's time to quid pro quo at that point. I expect them to get the money they think they're going to get. I would note that one of the interesting reports I thought this week was very sad, but was that the PAC 12 went to NBCA third time it was reported.
This was the third time they went to them asking for a deal and they just said we're not interested. This is like the scene in A Few Good Men when Joe's like I strenuously object. It's like, you know, it really doesn't matter at this point. So it's worth noting NBC passed on the entire PAC 12, so they're gonna pay in order to aim. I think the answer is yes, but if you want to say that sounds crazy, I can't tell you it's not. Well, I just think of it like this.
There's two elements to it. One is. If NBC really sees that as as worth the money in this environment in order Dame is is yes, they are a brand that you would think would be worth that. Is that something that in order that NBC's willing to pony up the cash for given that now they have this nationwide conference that they're also going to be putting on in primetime, which takes away some of the exclusivity that end that Notre Dame has had up to this point as
the only property on NBC. But the other thing, and this is where I've got an eye on the ACC. Notre Dame has conveniently parked all of their non football sports in the ACC. If the ACC disintegrates, this is a much like Stanford. This is a school that really thinks that the Olympic sports and the non football sports matter, at least to some degree. The idea that they would like keep them in a much diminished ACCI? Don't know if that's actually a longterm play.
So I do wonder what happens there because if they're looking for a home for their non revenue sports or Olympic sports, there's not a lot of options for them. What happens is they immediately join the Big East, like immediately and Gonzaga possibly gets it added with them and then that becomes a whole different thing. But that's what I think happens. Like they didn't get some money from the ACC. Now it's not like they get nothing. They got a pretty good cut.
That's part of the deal to get them and it's not a full share, but it's a share and that's part of the thing Like even if the NBC money isn't as high as they're saying, if it's like close Clemson needs in order to aim to get like 40 million a year. I don't think that's happening. I think they're going to get a well north of 55 or 60. If if if they get less somehow and they aren't taken care of by NBC and nobody else comes in and gives them that money, which I
think people would. I think ESPN would because you only got to pay for one and it's a it's a huge brand say what we'll joke about them there is there is like it matters nor they they're still very important they have a they have a great obviously great football schedule to get access to all those games a lot of which involve the ACC part of the deal So it Clemson needs Nordam didn't to not to get a really bad offer that's what Clemson needs.
If Norton gets a pretty good offer, they just stay and they're fine and they're stable. And this, this, I don't think a lot moves there's until Florida State. I think Florida State's kind of waiting on that. They're waiting to see what that deal is. They're hoping it's a bad deal. If it isn't, and I don't think it will be, then maybe Florida State escalates this with actually firing nuclear weapons. I don't know how much more it. Will escalate this beyond where we are.
Like I think their whole board of trustees went to saw Oppenheimer and just came out and decided we have to schedule a meeting right now. Right now. This is disgusting. This is crazy humanity right now because that's the next thing to keep an eye on is yeah, what? Nor Dame's deal is the next one and what happens with them. And you know as in terms of UConn, if we chance for us to end up with a lot of those remnants is based off of a lot
of that. I I think Nordam, yeah, that's the plan and I think it's actually pretty realistic to just keep going along. I don't think Nordam thinks they need 75,000,000 a year. They're fine with like 60 million a year. They can make up the difference. Much like Stanford, they're good for the money. You don't want to know where it's coming from.
But it's there different. It's different kettle of fish, so to speak, for Florida State, you know, and Florida State will be the first to let you know it by their actions. You would not see Notre Dame do this in public. No, you wouldn't see CC school doing this in public. You wouldn't see Miami doing this in public. You wouldn't see North Carolina do this in public. You wouldn't see Virginia do this in public. You apparently also wouldn't see Clemson do this in public.
For Florida State to do this, it really is kind of an emperor has no close moment for me and it's it's it's not a good look. Just like all afternoon Galen. I mean, I feel bad though on this one. Seeing the Washington State public statements is just like, guys, you could just say nothing. You don't need to issue a public statement of how disappointed you are and everyone like you don't have to confirm your place in the pecking order. Some fans want to see that. Fans love seeing that.
I'm sure the Washington State fans love that. That's not solving this. Yeah, well it's going to be an interesting ride. We will probably be talking about this again within the next couple of weeks because I get the dowers days. We will come back and talk about this more as events warrant. But this was good to catch up with you on this and what what is what is what 2 weeks. And you know, it's going to be a fascinating next year as we see
how all of the pieces. Fall together on this and what are the fallout happens and where all of these schools that don't have homes right now or trying to get out of their homes end up actually going so. And what looked like a very weak 2024-2025 and 2026 University of Connecticut football schedule, as I have noted, all of a sudden might get a lot better because the misfortune of some they mean a home and home. With Stanford football, we will welcome Wazoo to East Hartford.
We can't wait to see the Beavers. There's a river under Yukon Football Stadium. Beavers. There's a river down there. It's underground. You can dam it up here in East Hartford. So we're gonna benefit from this. I think, and I actually they got you. The opposite happens. They are punished by the fact that now Oregon and Washington are in the Big 10 for 2024 because man, the football, the football schedule I U had for 2024, which is now in the trash. This was ideal. No Michigan.
No Ohio State. UCLA at home. Penn State at home. Minnesota at home. Traveling to Michigan State and Nebraska and Northwestern, I'll take that any day of the week. That's all out the window now. And I pulled it's it's so insane that like, really, we have to do this for every sport. Like, does does UCLA baseball have to be in a conference with Rutgers? Like, does women's soccer need? It is, and this is something this is, this is something we really need to have a separate.
Podcast on, But it but, and I'll end with this, and I said this earlier on Twitter, this is what happens when nobody's in charge and when people who are in a business refuse to acknowledge that they're in a business. And you know the absolute.
Temerity of these schools and the athletic directors to go in front of Congress and claim that they need controls on player movement because it's ruining college sports to then turn around and have all of this happen in their own backyards is about as hypocritical as you can get. And I expect it, certainly because that's what you've gotten out of college athletics. I don't. I'm not morally offended by it, but I do think it's kind of hilarious that. When you have nobody in charge,
this is what happens. And you know, look, if the NFL had nobody in charge, this is what would happen if Major League Baseball had nobody in charge. We seen it in European soccer where there's really nobody in charge. And this is what has almost happened and will certainly eventually happen within the next few years. Yeah, people talk about how to stop this. Well, in Europe, the fans rose
up because fans have that power. the United States of fans just like, didn't buy season tickets or didn't turn on the games. But they're going to. They're gonna watch you all. You listening? Can't wait for the first Oregon Purdue game. You can't wait to watch Washington, MD. You're gonna watch every single one of them. You say you weren't. You're gonna be right there. Ooh, the game's tight in the fourth quarter. I'll put on Rutgers Washington.
You will. That's the difference is here folks, like everything else in American life, people just take it. People just take stuff. And it's if you want to be annoyed, that's what should annoy you. Because unless you think the benevolent, the benevolent overlords of the public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia are going to come in with Florida State and solve this, they're probably not. The people and the fans have the power and they just never use it. They never use it.
Never one time have they used it. Prove me wrong, America. Prove. Me wrong. Last, very last thing. And then we're definitely going. But this just popped up on Stuart Mandel's Twitter feed. The Oregon's Regents and President are right now, as we as we're doing this podcast, having their call about joining the Big 10, and one of the
Regents is on the golf course. On his phone taking this call, there might be no greater metaphor that we'll see visually for this whole process than what we're seeing there. MY1 take away is surely the I'm not saying it'll work, but hasn't the PAC 12 got us sue for torturous interference? Sue somebody on the end of this. Who they going to sue though? They're going to sue? Are they going to sue Fox? Are they going to sue the Big 10?
Again, this is kind of like Florida State saying we're going to sue our own league for fraud, but that's the thing. They might have a case. I don't think they will. But like at the that's my very curious thing is what on earth is the. Because we've gotten so many and they're all conveniently date stamped, we've gotten so many PAC 12 statements. I can't wait for the one after this. I can't even fathom what the PR strategy is after this. We always wanted Nevada.
All right. For Zach, I'm Galen. Thank you for joining us all. As we talked some crazy college sports realignment. Thanks to our friends at Home Field Apparel. Be sure to check out our regular podcast on Crimson Cast. We're tackling the I U football season and we'll be talking about other stuff going on in the conference here pretty soon anyway. We'll catch you folks on the flip side. So everybody.