Ep 946 - Who Knows At This Point?

You're listening to the back home. Network presented by home-field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cask. Ale klaviyo, Scott Caulfield joining you here. Scott section coming up a little bit later. I'm here to start. Good to see you, or Talk to you folks, again, I guess it's the 2nd of March. As we record this, you may be

hearing this on the second. If you're hardcore Crimson, cast fans, and you've subscribed to us on iTunes or Spotify, you probably popped up. You're like oh this was an unexpected surprise and other Crimson cast episode otherwise you probably catching this on Friday, the third. Either way, thank you for listening. We greatly appreciate it. We got Smorgasbord of things today for you. On the show will be joined

obviously. Scott a little bit later is, we're going to recap that abomination of a game that Indiana played against Iowa, this past Tuesday, and just kind of talk through what all happened there and why?

And what it all means, if anything, why don't, we don't really know, we're just kind of spitballing at this point but we'll talk about that and also talk about what's going to be a very interesting next few days for IU as they get ready for the season finale and senior night as they take on Michigan. We've also got Tony had Rania joining us here. He talked to me earlier on today as we got to talk through some

of the issues. I you had in that Iowa game, some of the larger issues that are still around with this Indiana team and just, you know, just some things, some statistical items. Some other things that were notable that we wanted to touch base on, we always enjoy having Tony on, be sure that you catch Tony Elsewhere on the back home network. His work is very much something that you need to be catching on the private Community with the

back home. And he's also a regular on the assembly call, which of course is one of our partner podcasts, on the back home network. They are there every week talking about IU basketball on Thursdays and they're also there after every game wins and losses.

They got the the joy, the the Ecstasy, I guess of being able to podcast immediately after that Purdue win, and then they also got the agony of having to try to talk IU basketball for a solid hour after getting Your lunch handed to you by an Iowa Hawkeyes team that most people didn't give a chance to win. So, we appreciate all those guys and what they do, and we would

like to remind you all that. The back home network is brought to you by home field apparel your place, to go for the finest in college Fashions, the greatest designs, the softest fabrics and some of the coolest stuff I mentioned that they would have some new things out there and sure enough they managed to launch an entire new. Well, I guess we can't call it a Pac-12 collection because it's really now.

The 10 UCLA and you, you know, the University of Southern California. USC can't believe I tripped over that, but those were just refreshed and man some really awesome looking stuff. There I am. Weirdly I'm a sucker for USC apparel so I had to pick up a couple of things off of that right away. Other people really love the baby blue of UCLA.

I gotta say all this conference realignment is creating some problems because Cuz I used to just be like, yeah, I would love to buy apparel from all over the country and because there was no direct conflict with I you I didn't feel like I had any sort of moral quandary there. But now, you know, I by USC stuff and it's like, what am I going to wear that when they're in the conference? Like I, you know, are you allowed to have a second team in the conference?

Is that even a thing? So that's, that's going to be something we have to work on and deal with. I don't know exactly how to Or navigate that particular issue but you can make those sorts of decisions on yourself by going to home field. Apparel.com, following home-field apparel on Twitter on Instagram, if you use the code home H ome get 15% off your first order. And as the home field folks talked about a little bit. They're revving up for some new and fun releases coming up here.

They always have some cool things coming out during the NCAA tournament so keep your eye on the socials and be sure to get over to home field. Apparel.com for the merch. All right, we're going to bring Tony in will bring Scott in. We've got your questions coming up. As always, if you've got questions, comments, whatever you can always hit us up on Twitter at Crimson cast or you can last probably the best way to do. So just hit us up on Twitter. Probably the easiest for

everybody. Antonia draw Nia joining us. Once again, remember the back home network and back here on Crimson cast your you're in danger of becoming like the third permanent guests that we have on Crimson cast that. Are you ready for this challenge? I MA be honored that there you go. Are they hold that distinction. So Tonio a lot going on right now with IU basketball that we wanted to talk about?

First of all, you posted about this a little bit on Twitter and it's certainly been Kind of a point of conversation with everybody. Like what the heck happened with IU on Tuesday against Iowa. They come out and just are flat from the get-go and it turns into one of the most embarrassing losses, not just of this era, but really of any era. In terms of I you playing in the sembly hole. What did you see in this game? That led to that kind of an outcome? Yeah, to me.

It was, you know, I you got punched in the mouth pretty Quickly and just never recovered. You know, Iowa came out strong to their credit and they got confidence in Iowa's, a team that if you give confidence, they're going to take it and run and you know, they they ended up what shooting 60% from the three-point line like to me it

was that start. And unfortunately that's kind of been a little bit of a Achilles heel for IU recently for sure is slow starts and this time they got off to a slow start and I will really showed no sign of letting up. They got confidence and, you know, they made like you said, they may die. You look kind of silly on their

home floor, and an opportunity. When I, you had pretty much everything to play for, you know, outside of the Big Ten title, you know, they're playing for that, double by. And, you know, just laid an egg, it was quite stinker. Yeah. It was just, and I was there at the game, I could tell right away, like, even before the game started like the vibe. I was wrong. The crowd was not into it. It felt like a crowd that had just watched their team, you know, sweep their rival and been

play. Maybe their best game of the season there. Just wasn't even even the Illinois game. You know, from a couple of weeks earlier at home that hadn't been a great Vibe. But everybody kind of got into it as the team went along and the I thought that the team itself just looked flat all the way around. They had a couple of Moments One when they got the lead to 23. Money in the first half.

And then again, right at the beginning of the second half where there was Verve, it was just kind of surprising to watch them, get back to down out of that. So quickly when Iowa just came down and started hitting shots and it opened up kind of something that we probably need to be thinking about with this iut moving into the postseason,

which is that? So much of this team's ability on offense, seems to flow directly from how they're doing on defense and when the other team is hitting shots and having success it, it It just kind of puts them in a funk offensively where they start taking bad shots. They start doing what were they do, it like there were three running right-handed hook shots in the lane during those Iowa runs, like, what is that that's causing? I you to have that kind of psychological response in those

circumstances. Yeah, to me it's it's it goes back to kind of that confidence and just flow and you know when Indiana's forced to play kind of in a half-court game and and you know like say a team like Iowa Kind of put some token pressure full core so then you're down to like 20 seconds. We get into your offense and I you just it takes time to develop and flow sometimes in their offense and when they're out of sync, boy, are they out of sync as you mentioned.

And yeah, that's good. That's kind of what happened. The other night is just a seeing. I mean it's not like I used some or Iowa, some World beater on the defensive end that, you know just really hunkers down and prevents you from scoring the basketball. It's actually quite the opposite with them. And so, Yeah, just just the flow and like you said, the vibe just was off, you know, guys weren't cutting hard or, you know, just getting to their spots like just the team.

You saw Saturday night in the team, you saw Tuesday night were quite the contrast, you know. That's I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying anything that everybody doesn't already know. But, you know, and I've mentioned this, I think on Twitter, maybe in this simply called post game show, but sometimes when you're playing, you just you think you're playing hard and then you go. The film and you're like oh wow, like no, I wasn't playing harder

door. No, we are team wasn't playing hard or whatever the case may be and I think that was a case. Like I don't think that Gavin Hood pheno intentionally went out there and was like, you know, I'm gonna half-ass it today. It was, you know, he goes out there and he thinks he's playing hard and he thinks he's properly positioned. And then he goes and watches the film with his coaching staff and like, yeah, that was

unacceptable effort. Like, it's not necessarily a conscious thing, that you understand all the time when you're out there on the floor and then when you can see it from, At forty thousand foot view you're like, oh wow, yeah, that was bad. Yeah, it's it's really fascinating and it feels like this shouldn't be that much variation from one game to the next.

Like, it feels like okay if your you can replicate your performances to some degree, obviously, there's some variables in terms of who you're playing against and what their levels of motivation are. It does put I you in an interesting quandary because you know a lot of the conversation around the Purdue game and Aftermath of that was wow this is an IU team that has another score that they can rely on in

jail and Hood fee. Know when things aren't going great for Trace Jackson Davis and when he doesn't have it traced Jackson Davis will have it going and everything before I will Trace Jackson Davis. Actually, a really good statistical game against Iowa, who Cioppino was not a not in have a great shooting night, but he wasn't like a no-show and yet. No one else showed up in this one and it really hits it. The mercurial Nature of this IU

team. And, you know, the as much as I've told people to not have that kind of automatic negative reaction with I, you like, this is a different type of team. I still believe that to some degree, but the flip side is, there are just games where we've seen The Supporting Cast, not show up, and I'm curious. Like, do you get extra warning lights? Going off in your head when that still happening at the end of February. Beginning of March. Arch.

This feels like something that should have been out of their system by now and yet it obviously hasn't been to me. It just speaks to you know, where I use that in the greater landscape of college basketball. And that's a top 15, the top 25 team, you know, four to six, seed range, whatever. The case may be. Unfortunately, for I, you like, that's what all the teams in that sea lion are doing like, putting up stinkers losing to teams you shouldn't.

Even Maryland, last night, you know, goes and loses double digits, Ohio State and they've been playing very well. So, you know, unfortunately for. Are you like, they just don't have the dog yet that can produce on a consistent basis where you just know that you what performance you're going to get? You know, Trace Jackson Davis. We're pretty, pretty certain, what he's going to give you most nights, you know, Purdue kind of being an anomaly.

But most nights, you know what Trace Jackson Davis is going to give you, you know, jail had, you know, being a Freshman guard. He's good very good. NBA talent but you're still going to have off nights and inconsistent play. You know, I think it was, I can't remember who tweeted it out today, but it was the top 100 recruits of 2020, the class of 2020 to and the top 100

transfer portal players. I think like 20 players in the top 100 are averaging double digits for freshmen, recruits 66 in the transfer portal or averaging 10 plus points per game. So it just goes to show. I show you that the older you get, the more mature you are as a player, the more your game expands and you're better essentially at scoring the basketball.

So to rely on a freshman kind of as that, that second guy, that's really going to kind of take you to the promised land can be a little bit, nerve-racking to be frank. It's, you know, I use guard play is pretty much. What is dictated where the team is gone. Like Trace Jackson, Davis, is that consistent presence, you're going to have them, but when the guards play, well Indiana, typically wins big games. They don't play well, it's a

stinker one thing. I noticed in looking at the individual statistics for that Iowa game. First of all, that was, if you want to go by straight up points per possession, allowed, that was actually not the worst game that they've had all season, which is frightening. The marginally, not as bad as the game at Penn State Penn State scored. Basically, 130 Point 3 points. Per 100 possessions, Iowa scored a hundred and thirty point one. I'm so it was essentially as bad.

But the other thing I noticed that I'm curious to get your take on, is this is now, if you look at the last three games IU has posted, its lowest tide for lowest and third, lowest offensive rebounding percentage numbers of the entire season. This is a team that certainly hasn't been great on the offensive glass this year, but it seems like over the last three. Is in particular, and really, over the last five or last six. Illinois, game at home.

Kind of being the one exception they just aren't going to the offensive glass to try to get offensive rebounds which is putting a tremendous amount of pressure on them to hit the shots that they're taking and you know against like Purdue they did. And it wasn't that big of a deal against Iowa day, just didn't and it became a huge deal.

You know, obviously it's not something that Woodson is putting a lot of emphasis on because if you look at the overall, ER all on the season, I use offensive rebounding. Percentage has, I think pretty low all things considered I think on the season they're about 180, it's in the country in grabbing offensive rebounds the percentage of overall

possessions. But they look like they've just kind of abandoned it completely here lately, What like, what's the thought process there and do you think this is a good idea as they move into the postseason era that of the Season? Sure. Yeah. With Iowa, you know, they're, they're a team that wants to get up and down the floor really quickly, so I could see Being more of a point of emphasis to get back rather than attack the glass and you're getting beaten transition.

But obviously, you know, produce not a team that plays particularly fast. I don't think offensive rebounding percentage was anything to write home about their, it was the same in the two games in both Iowa and Purdue games. It was it was, what was it? 16.7 was the offensive rebounding percentage, and that was tied for the lowest on the year.

Yeah. And I think the other thing is, you know, Trace like you said, traces Had really good game, you know, statistically speaking, the other night against Iowa, but, you know, has looked at bit off for a few games, you know, fatigue possibly wearing maybe a back issue flaring up, you know, that's completely speculation. I don't know, could be nothing.

But, you know, with that, like, traces, your number one offensive rebounder, if he's fatigued, or he's, you know, some sort of back issue or whatever the case may be, whatever is kind of hampered him the last few games, like, you're pretty much Think that Firepower Me Trace is one of the you here announcers, talk about all the time, he's one of the best second Jumpers in college basketball meaning.

As soon as he hits the ground, he's springboard and back up like a pogo stick and able to get that offensive rebound. And you know if he doesn't have that spring or that bouncer that energy to be able to do that, you're pretty much losing your soul offensive rebounding. You know you've got Malik renew and Ray Stomps on The Thinker and the eight percentage range. But Trace is getting the bulk of those offense board so that and then if you just This wildly sometimes to we're not which I

use doing. You're going to have a worse chance, as well. You know, a lot of I use mrs. I feel like, come around the rim, like a, somebody coming over to protect the rim and then Trace is able to go behind that and kind of clean up the mess there. So if you're shooting a bunch of 17 Footers and things like that, and not putting pressure on the defense, they're in better position to blocks out box out and rebound as well.

You had posted might have been Twitter, might have been on The chat that we're on a couple of things that you want, I you to do or not do as they move forward through the remainder of the season. I wanted you to share those with the audience because the first one I've been talking about for a while and that's stop throwing the ball forward on fast breaks because it feels like IU loses like three or four possessions every game because of that The transition offense when they

have numbers. Like it's actually weird when they when it's like three-on-three they find a way to get a bucket when it's like a two-on-one situation. Whatever reason we think it always needs to be a lob and typically those labs like get lofted into the sixth row, or yeah. So yeah. Number one was stop. Lobbying the ball on breaks where you have the numbers because it just, I mean it's insane. I would love to See a statistical analysis of Indiana, just on transition breaks, where

they have the numbers. You know, I've got the numbers on their transition offense and it's about 50th percentile in the country. Not great, not terrible. But I, you know, when you have the numbers, you should be scouring every time as a high level basketball team and Indiana just has not done that. It just feels like there's sometimes it's because it's Trace Jackson Davis and Trace thinks he's a better passer moving than he actually is.

Times. But it's also like when he's on the receiving end will see jail and rufino's actually kind of bad at this still where he's just got way too much juice on the ball and I don't know the whole thing's frustrating because it does feel like I you throws away like 8 to 10 points

every game. Whether it's stepping on the end line because the pass is off or or, you know, they don't put the shot up when they need to or the pass is bad to begin with and it just feels like, you know, I've watched a bunch of other teams with, you know, With high-level talent and you do see these things occasionally, but I you sticks out as a team that just does not seem to be able to pull off those situations

particularly well right now. Yeah, and I think some of it is trying to hit that home run, you know, especially when you're in a simile Hall. Like, you're you're trying to blow the roof off that place and I get it like, you know, it's assembly halls and advantage. And, you know, you're on that brake. And sometimes that that Lobby, you just can't help yourself and you throw it and then yeah,

you're all excited. I didn't like you said, you throw it too high, you know, I think back to my time in the Northwestern game we're jamming. Hey chief, you know, to a flop and it hit the top of the backboard. Yeah. You know, I kind of said it tongue and cheek but I was kind of serious to like, hey, maybe we should just slow it down and go run our half court offense. I mean, you know you think I'd loved I would love to see that

same breakdown. I'd also like to see kind of a Supercut of the video of all those different situation because I think you would see the same thing. A over and over again with that. But you think about it.

I mean pulling it back and not trying to force the action even if it doesn't have to be a la. But even if you're getting down there and it's now it's a three-on-three as opposed to a two-on-one, you've still got a better chance of at least getting some points, but it's not just that they're throwing the ball away. It's a lot of times where the passes received when it isn't thrown away, there's all you can do is try to put the ball up. You lose the chance at drawing a

foul. You lose the chance at it. Resetting, if, if the option is not Not there and that is kind of frustrating to watch and I, you know, it's one of those things that's happens, consistently throughout the course of the year. It's like it just has not gotten better at any point throughout the course of the year and I do find that a little bit peculiar. It is.

Yeah, it's fresh. You know, as a coach it's not nothing is worse and not converting a fast break because it's, you know, should essentially be two point. I should be a two points per possession.

Maybe three. If you're a coach that, you know, allows three pointers in transition and yeah, just the conversion rate for IU. Just has not been there at the clip and needs to be something else that was pointed out with, you know, which is the lack of three point shots, you know, Indiana. As we keep talking about is one of the best three-point shooting teams by percentage in the country and even going to for 11 in the game against Iowa, their 19th in the country, they shoot 38% from three.

And yet they only took 11 threes in that game, and it just really wasn't part of the offense, overall, and I'm curious your thoughts on like, why, why that is. I get it in the normal flow of an offense, where the game is going normal. They clearly want to get The ball into the post, they want to give it to trace Jackson, Davis. They want to show Trevino driving, you know, to either side and drawing Defenders, that all makes sense. And if you can get kicked out some threes, maybe it's not a

huge percentage of your offense. But in a game where you're down by that much and you have to get some offense going, they just don't even look at the three-point line. And that is really bizarre to me, like, what's the, what's the thought process there? Why would they fall into that rut in those sort of circumstances? it's a great question, you know, I was actually re-watch the game and I saw It was it was double digits. The amount of times that a shooter actually got a good look

like Miller cop, right? Where you wanted to, catch the ball, passes it up like you said, for a running hook shot or something along the line. So it's not even the weird part of it is is that it's not even a case where Indiana can't get a look. It's like they're not looking and with good Shooters. You know, Galloway did it a couple of times to. It's like sometimes Indiana passes up a wide open three for a contestant to which I'll never

understand. Yeah, it's that one's kind of mind-boggling because I don't, I don't quite get it myself, you know, especially in situations. And that was what I wanted to go back and look like, okay. They even have opportunities to shoot these. Or was it just the offense was predicated on feeding trays and nobody could ever.

And I was just taken away the perimeter that wasn't the case like they were doubling down sometimes or Indiana would run a pick and roll and they would they would help on the roll and somebody would lift and be open for three. Like they just weren't shooting and it was somewhat Our it feel its philosophical like it has to be, there's no way that guys are just turning down those shots and it's just in those sorts of

circumstances. It doesn't make a lot of sense and that's the one thing where, you know, I look at it, it's like that has got to be something that they change because there's gonna be games where they get down in Big Ten tournament NCAA tournament and they can't be afraid to leverage

their three-point shooting. Yeah, you might miss a couple more than you would miss under normal circumstances but missing a to and missing a 3 and that case count for exactly the same number of points, like one isn't what better than the other because you're just, you know, you're caught slightly closer to the basket. The other thing and this is more of a general question. Maybe we'll kind of get you out on this. It's not even necessarily an IU

thing. I you a certainly struggled on the road Purdue game accepted, but everybody has struggled on the road will leave Iowa out of the equation and yes, Penn State managed to pull off an unexpected win at Northwestern last night but by and large. Judge Road teams have really suffered in the Big Ten. Maryland who looks like a national champion at home losses to Ohio State handily. Last night, it's one of 100 of examples that we could give from the course of the Big Ten season.

How do you see this playing out? When all of these teams are playing on neutral courts. I mean, everybody's got to go to the United Center next week, I have no clue what to Divine from this season. Like, I don't know if Maryland's actually a good team on a neutral court and just terrible.

On a road floor, I have no idea. But I you with that being in that case, how do you try to judge the team's relative strengths knowing that we really haven't gotten a chance to see a team dominate, both home and away.

Sure. I think it really comes down to two Talent evaluation, like, I think neutral core is where, you know, you see, like what teams are talented and which one's kind of feed off that home energy a bunch or or you know, you could talk about the officials kind of feeding off the A home energy as well and given the home team calls and things like that, you know, I think that that's really what it comes down to is, you know, who has the more talented players

that are put in spots to Showcase that Talent. Like, to me, that's like the anti Rutgers. It's why I've said from the beginning that I thought Rutgers even when they were like, projected as a 45 seat, I thought they would lose in the first round of the tournament because of the style of play that they play now. Granted, you get They can officials, you never know what they might may or may not call in in the Big Ten Tournament.

But yeah, it's, it's perplexing because, you know, to me, I still think Indiana and Illinois have the most talent in the Big Ten, and but we also know how India typically has performed in the victims and I get it. It's been different, regimes different coaches for whatever reason, you know, Indiana program, Illinois for that matter, same product, but, you know, yeah, Yeah, so yeah, it's it's perplexing. It's a it's a weird one to try to get your head wrapped around.

I mean they're there are certain teams. It's kind of like Michigan. The last few years has performed pretty well in tournament settings, when they haven't necessarily performed well, in conference play and yet, it's even they've struggled a bit at home versus on the road. I mean, it's just, it's and it look, it's not just here. I mean, this is actually something happening all over the

country. You're seeing teams really struggle away from home, A lot of cases and I am, I think this is probably the year where I felt the law like the least amount of confidence. In what I've seen in the regular season actually translating over to what I'll see in the tournament, all the way up and down the line, like, even even teams like Alabama and Kansas, I don't really know what we're going to get out of them in a tournament setting it with the

Big Ten teams. It's like I could see two or three of them making it to the second weekend and Beyond. I could see all of them losing in the second round. Or before and it just does not. I don't know what to make it all about. This Big Ten Tournament partially because we don't even know what the seedings going to be at this stage is what anywhere from a variance of like second tonight? Yeah, with one game remaining?

Yeah, and I mean, you could have like a six way tie for second place in the conference and everything's on the table. Still at this point. I mean, some of it'll get cleared up a little bit with the Illinois, Michigan game. That happens on Thursday night. Depending on, when we post this, it may have happened already but it's Yeah, it's just a weird

conference. It's a weird setup and I'm with you, I think the talent thing matters, but I also we've seen so little independent, like, examples since like the season really got going in Earnest. Certainly, we saw some teams play well on neutral courts, back in November and December, but I don't even know. We can take much out of that at this point. Yeah, I always, I always say November basketball to crapshoot.

Like the teams now are so much different from from then, but yeah, it It to me, it this Indiana team reminds me of Michigan last year. Now better record but has a lot of talent has had some ups and downs, but can kind of put it together. I think Michigan was what like 17 and 14 in the regular season last year, but they had talent and they were able to get to that second weekend. That's maybe I'm just talking myself into it well, but I do think there's some correlation there.

Yeah. It's Amin Michigan. Last year was an interesting case because the kind of barely made the field and largely made the Because they won at Iowa, they won at Ohio State, you know, and that kind of that got them over the hump even though they lost to Indiana in the Big Ten tournament in the first round. But yeah, I mean, I think there's some, there's some areas

to be made there. Even statistically like that, that was about a top-20 offensive team from Michigan, and it was about, they were 74th in kampong defensive efficiency and Indiana's. Not quite that bad but they've been so uneven defensively that, you know, that I think they're ranking right now their 50th to Offensively. And that's a surprise given. How good the offensively they were last year? But maybe that's just kind of that. Maybe that is the best analog.

I don't know. We'll have to wait and see how they perform defense. Even got their doors blown off of them by Iowa home in the last week of the season. That's right. See all kinds of this what we wanted to be compared to Michigan under Juwan Howard? That's perfect God. Anyway. Well, we'll get you out of here with that and appreciate you taking the time to join us and looking forward. To chat with you as we find out who Indiana is going to be playing here over the next couple of weeks.

Awesome. Appreciate it. And now joining us. Scott Caulfield back. Again, it's been a little bit. We've let we let things cool off a little bit. After that Iowa game. We weren't sure what we were going to podcast immediately after the Iowa game or wait a little bit. I'm glad we waited at least from my perspective because it's put things in a little more perspective. But what about you? Where are you at with things? Yeah, I've it's probably best. We did podcast that night.

You know. Definitely things are not, I'll get to like like Five Points here. I'm not going to use them all in the first open. Let me get two of them and then we'll kind of pitter-patter back and forth. By this is a whole new Leaf being turned over by you. If you're not going to throw all five points into the beginning here I'm trying I'm you know 40 years in I'm trying to got went to his third podcasting lesson and and he's learned some things.

Things that he didn't. He's like, oh wow, you need, I can separate my points out. Oh okay. Yeah, this is. This is great. I'm excited. The training was worth the money that we spent. This is great, by the way. I haven't done it yet. Led by Tony, like I'm not gonna

do that. But the one thing that really bugged me about that game being there, you know think of something you couldn't obviously couldn't see if you weren't there is there is like two times in the second half where Woodson called timeout was obviously pissed and just sent the team out and you know with liked he took like 20 seconds the time out and my joke is and I get it like you're probably like I'm telling you guys figure it out yourself and I always joke like

you know you probably could talk about something. Else, there's still a lot of time out left and you're down by 15. But I understand it's probably a message like you guys figure it out and it was really a bummer to see the team. Just everyone went in their positions to in like, cops on the far end. Inbound the ball. No one's talking to each other, they're just standing there. The the cheerleaders are like, you know, dancing around them and there's a part of me.

It's like, where's these two points coalesce? Where's the leadership of somebody to pull? Like, all right, who's going to pull the team together? Just the Five Guys who are out there and just bring them together even just that. Hey, we are not Let this happen. Let's get it down to 12. Like everyone just seemed comatose that bugged me and I also you know you look at this team. It's like you have two guys who played five years income or six years in college.

You have a guy who's played five years, you've got a guy who's played three years on your starting lineup. It is, you know, next year, when we're a young team and we're talking about man, missing you can't, you can't expect the team to come back and play. Well after a lot, you know, after a big win with this kind of, you know, an experienced team, it's like well, it doesn't happen. Two with experienced teams either. And that's kind of really frustrating to.

Those are the kind of the two main level things that I left the game with, but it was really that those two timeouts. Again, it's one little thing, but just that body language really, it was just kind of alarming that it felt like. After that sect, we talked at halftime. There was like a one minute span where people seem to care and then it seemed like everybody kind of checked out.

I'll just end with this is like 12 minutes to go during one of those timeouts and I'm like Tell me the podium with them. Like I've never, I've never left a game this early. Like I just I'm good, we should leave, but I've never lost a game. This early, this nice old guy in front of me. Who been talking though games kind of turns around. He's like son, you're excused and I guess like a minute. Thanks Dad. Yes, what's it? Got the tacit. He's like see coach. Don't want to be here.

Either, is it? So I did leave at the Under 12? Let's so it's hilarious. Like Scott and I have this thing when we're both at a game. Game generally with a couple of exceptions, we always meet at the same spot in the arena and you know, sometimes it's Scott and his dad sometimes it's Scott

and a random friend. I sometimes think Scott has like a friend Factory just for IU games that he'd like who will generate, you know, it's almost like a character creation thing and like Madden where, you know, it's like oh, you know, if I'm gonna go with someone who's like 63 and you know, loves Michigan State this time or something like that. But no in all seriousness, you just Headband. Yeah, right. Yeah, sure. She's wearing that during the neck. Roll. Yeah, number 99 Jersey.

Right? Yes, but, you know, Scott and I are talking at halftime of this game and there's other people, my wife's, there's some other people with us and Scott loves to pick up, on, whatever my vibe is. And we talked for about two minutes and he looks at me like, you're freaking me out because because, like, I had at that point, I had pretty much long since decided that the game was over and I stuck around. I was like, well, we'll see.

Hey, maybe they just had a bad half, they'll come back and like you said, like the beginning of that second half, it looked like they gave a shit for about a minute. And then, you know, they got the lead down to, I think eight, they had a chance to get it down to 6. The out of bounds play goes off of race Thompson allegedly and then Iowa comes down and then immediately pushes it back out to 18. It felt like they didn't. One-possession, I know they didn't, but it felt like it.

And I looked at my wife and I'm like, we're getting out of here at the Under 12 And I felt, I never even wavered in that decision not because I, you know, I'm like a bad fan. I don't think and not because of anything other than you could tell. At least, I could tell from the moment you walked into the arena, that it was a bad Vibe. Like the crowd was absolutely dead. The players looked absolutely dead.

There was no energy. Everybody was I think still kind of drunk on the Purdue Victory and that was Fortunate. Because, you know, the few times that I, you really look like they were going to do something noteworthy in the game, Iowa just was just came down, hit some shots. And, you know, the lack of attention to detail that I you had in the game was laid bare, consistently, you know, I'll say this, the day of the game. I was more like shell-shocked than mad. It was.

It's kind of like, you know, there's a difference between the, the kind of mad you Yet when someone like constantly is like annoying you and in your face, and eventually you just kind of erupted at them and the kind of mad when like, you know, you're you're moving overseas and the shipping company, you know, you're watching them, bring your car off the ship with like a crane and about halfway to the water. They just drop the whole thing into the ocean.

I mean, you're mad, there it relatable, very relatable now, but you don't know what to do about it at that, what say, you know, we're like, you know, or like you come home and you discover that like, Do a random, like, you know, gas line explosion is like, taking out your garage. Like what are you gonna do? If you're mad. But it's like, I don't know how to react to this and that's essentially how I felt in the moment in.

I don't know, I haven't lived it through either of those experiences just to clarify with the audience but this is called metaphor like we're trying to, you know, get get some kind of a of a of a relatable situation here.

I will say, I got a lot matter the day after the game and I think a lot of it ties into this idea of Don't know exactly what to expect out of this group and I think that that is is honestly the case with a lot of people where you get that, we're kind of an interesting era of fandom where there's it's just this. It's this constant flow of positivity. Everybody has to be nice to the players.

Nice to the coaches. Nice to everybody, everybody's trying their best, everybody's putting out, you know, doing the best that they can do. And you celebrate when Teams win and when you lose, you're not supposed to get upset or at least not unreasonably. So you can be slightly critical, then games like this happen, where it's just like no one showed up as you pointed out with the timeout, think?

No one cared. Like there's no one trying to rally the troops, you know, Woodson is doing what you, what we've seen like, bob Knight people worship the ground that bob Knight walks on, Bob not used to do that all the time. You know, it'd be like well I'm not even going to call timeout, you jerks figure it out for yourself. Woodson in this kind of a game is like look I can't if i Can't motivate you. Coming out of the locker room.

I'm not going to be able to motivate you standing on the sidelines when we're down by 18 points. So you guys got to come up with something because if you don't believe if you don't care it's not going to matter. I think where I get the most irritated with this team is. Why are we still doing this on the 27th of February or 28th February whatever day? That was?

Why is that a thing with this tea with this this veteran team you've got guys like Trace tracks and Davis and Miller cop who have started you know for Years worth of big, ten games, and Trace Jackson Davis at least offensive ly did some stuff out there. But he was just as guilty as everybody was from a defensive perspective, and that's really

what lost Indiana the game. And it's like, it makes it so that I feel foolish because I'm out here on the podcast saying, look, this is a different IU team. I know you've got PTSD from past years.

This looked as bad as any Archie team looked in just shrinking from the moment and acting like, They couldn't be bothered and when the other go on, yeah, sorry sorry that they also did things like I remember with right around that 12-minute timeout when you left eye but I was thinking like we have maybe like 15 more possessions. Yeah it's like we can and and the fact that you know, we took we took five threes in the second half but three of them were garbage times.

We took two threes, you come out, you're dead. You'll Iowa took that 18 point. They made six threes. I think they took like six of eight or six of nine in the Second half they're up by 10 and they tripled our output in threes. May they scored 18 more points on three pointers in the second half and that's that's the part that's frustrating me the most going out of this as like in the second half, obviously, whatever you did in the first half isn't

working. You know, if your Woodson, why aren't you running some plays four? Threes, but to your point, like if your capri and you guys just take some threes like who cares? Like they came down? They were running. Like, offensive sets of what the hell are you doing? We're down by 24 points. It just Chuck some three. Well it can only help it. Can't get worse, this was something Tony.

And I talked about earlier not so much like, I mean, it was partially the so the selection, but just like this team when they get down, as those of you who have been listening of already heard me say on this podcast it's like they have to go back to their security blanket and their security blanket is apparently taking contested twos. That's what makes them feel like the best. And that's a large part of the offense is built around this idea that you're going to get the ball in the post.

The problem is in a game like this, you have Shooters who can hit threes, if they're thinking about hitting them, but the mentality is not there. And that is where I think Woodson in this kind of a game deserves criticism because ultimately, when things break down and things are going to break down, particularly you get to the NCAA tournament, getting the Big Ten Tournament, you're not going to have home court.

You're not going to have crowds, you're not gonna be able to feed off that energy, and there's going to be stretches as we've seen all season with this IU team, where things don't work. Way that you're thinking that they're going to work. So what do you do? You can't keep doing the same thing that you're doing. Now that said in this game, I don't think it would have mattered because Indiana's defense was so terrible. You go back and you look through

this season. There's only been one game where Indiana had worst defense and that was that game at Penn State. And as I mentioned to Tony earlier, it's real close like Penn State. Shot almost. 70% effective field goal, percentage had 18 3s had an offensive rating of one 30.3 in this game. I was shot 68 percent had 13 threes and had an offensive rating of one. Thirty point one, so the go

ahead. Oh, I know. And that's, you know, something I'm not picking on as listen to the assembly, call the drive home, after the game and rightfully, so after the game you can I get, you have to know, coach coach Tucson. He was kind of saying, you've got to just, you know, put us out of your mind, but you gotta just put it out and get rid of which I understand that thought.

But this is the thing that's been bugging me as you look at the number of losses this year, and some of them have Reasons, they're like the Kansas game. That's a tough game, but let me just read through it. You know, the idea of like, well this just it's a one-off. It's a bad fuel kids have bad,

night's whatever. Okay, we lost your Rutgers by 15, we lost to Arizona by 14, we lost to Kansas by 22, the suspense 8 by 19, we like the game, you're mentioning loss to Penn State, 19, Maryland, 11, oz bad, but like just 3D a week ago, Michigan state, that was a 15-point loss. And in this Iowa lost 22, that's a lot of ass kickings, like that's just a lot of double digit.

Losses. And it's so the idea of like this is just one this year that, you know, just, you know, you flush it out and move on. You have the team has to do that. But for a fan, like, this is something where this is a feature of this team that they can just get their doors blown off at any time. And they've done it in a variety of situations at a variety of points. This season they have, I will say this. I'm that dumb, I think for teams like this IU team. Who have some flaws but that are

very clearly apparent. You're going to get that. I mean, TCU is a good example, TCU, they want hat Kansas, they've won at Baylor, but they also lost by 11 at Iowa State. They lost by 21 to Kansas State. They lost by 92. West Virginia. I mean, they've had several games where they got, they lost by a pretty significant margin and I think you're going to get that sometimes with teams that don't have like, Aunt, players and depth. It's and that's not an excuse, but it is just something that

happens to those sorts of teams. And so I look at it and I say to myself, that is very frustrating because there's been other games where Indiana's this season, you know, they've been close, whether that was the Northwestern either, the Northwestern losses, the Iowa, lost the first time around, you know, it's not like, every time they lose, they get destroyed.

But yeah, it does. A lot of them out there, but it does You think that you bring up a really good point and it's that this team is oddly fragile mentally and they're not all the

time, fragile, mentally. And that's why I say oddly like it's not like this is a mentally, fragile team, you're not going to be mentally, fragile team and when you know, 11 of 15 games which is what this team has done since mid February and that includes, you know, two wins against Purdue, a win against Rutgers, a win at a low. Two wins against Illinois, including a 15-point win there.

Or whatever that was 15. Yeah, but it's like, when they get mentally fragile, they get really mentally fragile. They just they fall to pieces. And I think that's, it's one of those things that's hard to get, like significantly angry about, because it doesn't happen every time. But it is something to get concerned about, and I think what I feel now and and of kind of felt a little bit on and off is it's the end? The unpredictability? Of knowing when that's going to happen.

And what's going to trigger? It really is hard to get your head wrapped around. And I think for IU fans, you should overall I think probably Embrace this season and it's and its overall successes and say, wow, this has been great. We've had a competitive relevant basketball team for essentially the entire season despite injuries, despite a really tough schedule in the conference. And yet, it's hard to get really comfortable with this team because they've had just enough

of these types of losses. Has where you're just like, I don't trust you and I want to trust you and I want to like fully Embrace what you're doing and I want to believe every time you go out onto the floor, that things are going to work out. And yet, it doesn't happen that way enough times to really ever be able to fully feel that way. So I'm getting Vibes of and, and honestly, this is where, you know, it's a little bit different because the let me get my the full like thought here

out. But you know, 2013 had different expectations but I didn't I didn't say it. I think on the podcast at that point, I might have mentioned it 2016. I will mention what I'm feeling now now, but in 2013 I had a very similar feeling. We're that team was on a roll. And then, you know, they won that game at Michigan State. Like oh, People stole it, inbounds pet inbounds pass, like, had a layout arms. Like this is a different kind of team that team went on to lose

your to of the next four. They lost the game at home against Ohio State, they, you know, struggled in the tournament. They lost to Wisconsin. And then they really mean quietly, struggled a lot against temple in the second round, didn't really blow out James Madison, the first round. And then, as we all remember, lost to Syracuse and it was that stretch right after the Minnesota Ohio State loss for, I'm just like something feels wrong. Like, this doesn't feel like The

team. And what was frustrating about that year was they had it all in their hands. They had the big ten, they could lock it up at home on senior night and probably get the number one seed in the midwest, which was the Indianapolis region at that time and they let Louisville have that region. Not not that maybe would that change anything but like that. But I had that feeling at that point at the same time you know in 2013 I will also look at 2016

as an example. That's a team where you and I famously do. Really buy in for most of the year that I remember, you know, they win the Big Ten and it's like they have that win at Iowa and I'm like, okay I'm in like I'm in a buy-in on this team and then all of a sudden, it's like, okay now we're going to lose the Michigan. The first round of the Big Ten tournament and it's like that's another kick in the teeth of that team. Probably did what it was supposed to be.

They be Kentucky in the tournament but then got their doors blown off by North Carolina in the sweet 16 and maybe that's the fate of this team. But it's like that's now where I feel like we're at where this team will. I'll do something but it's like this is going to come up and bite Us in the ass at some point in the next three to four weeks. I mean, it might have anyway,

that's the thing. And this is this is where yeah, again, I think to some degree, it's like this team has the talent and the ability to make a final four. Like they just they do they do. But they also brought almost certainly will not because of how inconsistent they are in effort and an execution. And I think that that is something that, you know, they can be much better than they

have been with. They are, they can be relevant where, which they are in, which they have not been, they can have two first-round draft picks, which they do and they haven't in the past and they can still be a team that you just need to guard your heart with because you just don't know what

you're going to get now. It's like both of the times that you, you know, they're both the things you mentioned earlier, those Seasons, you know, 2013 like that was a bona fide top five team and you know, it kind of mentally and physically. Ali fell apart for them and they ran into exactly the wrong opponent and they didn't do themselves any favors. But let's give you said there were signs leading up to that.

That it wasn't necessarily going to be a cakewalk to the final four in 2016. It's like you don't even know what to expect because, you know, as you said like you can't it's hard to get your head wrapped around where you can lose to Michigan in the Big Ten Tournament, you lost to Penn State earlier that, you know, in February who wasn't a very good team, you're going to beat Kentucky.

And Kentucky was like legitimately good that year and then you just get destroyed by North Carolina, it's like hard to get your head wrapped around what exactly do expect there. But Indiana I think this year is almost coming at it from the opposite side. They're not coming at it there almost there. More of a hunter in that they're

they're not on top. They're not being chased by other teams there in this morass of of teams in the Big Ten, all of whom have had similar issues and some of it is, as we've talked about on the Podcast trying to get over the mental. Hump of the, you know, just the extended season and all the games you play. And the kind of just, you know, the the The NeverEnding slog of the Big Ten in January and February. We've seen a lot of good moments when this team is properly motivated.

Like they were against Purdue where you're like, this this is why this team was ranked in the top 15 to start the season and why this team was projected to be the Big Ten Champion. But then you see games like this, Iowa game and you're like, alright, what am I getting? AR are we really going to get the game that they played at Purdue or the game? They played at home against Purdue if they're not playing

Purdue that seems unlikely. So I worry in the Big Ten Tournament if this team draws against a team that they don't get fired up by or a team like Iowa that just for whatever reason seems to give Mike, Woodson fits. It's funny. Like he's, he's three-in-one against Purdue and he hasn't beaten Iowa so far. It's been his time as head coach. It's I got to make a lot of sense, you know? But that's that's kind of how things have set up.

Same thing with like, he struggled against Northwestern, but he's beating Michigan regularly. Now, I don't totally understand what works and doesn't work in terms of Woodson in this era of IU basketball, but I do know that it's, if you're frustrated as an IU fan, you know, might 11 against Michigan but yeah. Sorry. We know, they, they want to they won last year in the Big Ten Tournament against Michigan as well. Did they not? Okay. Yeah. The two in a row.

Hey, come on, let's give them some credit. But ultimately, I think that it's a team that you should be excited about watching because they could put on a great performance and yet, they've struggled so much as they've slog through this season to maintain that and build on it, and really grow into something bigger than what they were a month ago. Like they're about the same team that beat Purdue the first time, and I don't know, That that's

necessarily going to change. I also don't know what it's going to mean in the Big Ten Tournament. I don't know what it's going to mean in the NCAA tournament because all of the teams in the Big Ten, I have no clue what to make of them away from their home floors. You know. It's just it's a it's the strangest thing to try to parse out is Indiana. Actually good is, is you know, Northwestern actually good is, you know, any of these teams actually good?

Or are they just like good at home with the exception? Of course of Indiana playing Iowa. This week, like, are they act? Where are they? Good or not. How is that going to fare?

And at this point I have no clue and this is kind of, you know, my final thought but I kind of you know, final thought on this is that you know as I was driving home today thinking of what we're going to talk about that, you know, really this next three weeks were really important because it's going to be about Legacy and it's kind of guy, you know, shit. But what I mean by that is that right now we're all having these discussions under the assumption of what you said is, like this

team could be a final. 40. And it's probably not but it had that cement is still wet. Like it hasn't happened. Yet. We don't know. And, you know, the legacy of I don't get deep on like, tracing the legacy of this team is really going to be set by what happens next couple weeks because like, you know, last year is like, oh yeah. We beat Purdue. And then we kind of chalk up like we lost the st. Mary's. Because of a lot of factors that you know, travel and that be we want to game.

We kind of did all that great. If you know there's scenarios I was thinking like imagine if we go like you know, we beat Michigan, we go 10. One in the Big Ten tournament and then we lose the first round of the NCAA tournament. Like I think the season takes a much different Hue than we have right now because right now, it's like we're under the expectation of we're going to be a protected seed and I think, like, many people are thinking, right?

At least, you know, we have a matchup in the, you know, around the 32 maybe Swing Low, Sweet Sixteen. Like we're kind of assuming a lot of different things.

If we go 1 and 1 and then 1 and 1 in both, the next two tournaments, is that going to be thought of as a success if we get blown out by the 5 seat, We have one of these type of performances against an Iowa against you like Iowa state in the second round and we just lose my 22 how and I'm not I'm not I don't know the answer but I'm just saying that's going to radically change how we reviewing things when as we sit here right now myself included you look at this team and the

Specter of a final four is out there for the first time in probably like 12 years words like this team could make a final four. It probably most likely won't but every other year It's like, well, we know they won't because they're not in the turnaround. It's like at least this year, like you're protected seed, that's a great place to start. And I think that's allowing people to not like, you know, Iowa. All right. Push it off. Like they're still there, still

more ahead. We're getting real close to the end here. And but I'm just saying, like the legacy of this team Legacy of Trace. All these things are going to be set real quick, and that's what does concern me is like, if they put in one of these, in a round of 32, Game or God forbid the first round the tournament. I think it's going to sting a lot more and it's going to retroactively kind of change how we view all of these things because that 2016 season changes a lot more if you just replace

that. And I know we won but like let's just say that team lost by 15 to Kentucky in the second round of the NCAA tournament. Suddenly It's like, well, that was to be one of the Big Ten title that year but it's like you lose the first round of the Big Ten Tournament. You get me a boat race. The second is like, anyway, that Is my thought is like, and obviously, if they do the reverse, they go to the final four, all of this as a moot point, it's just like, all right.

Well, that was you know, we were wrong and things broke our way. But it's, there's a negative aspect to this where things could turn poorly. Yeah, and really change the Legacy. And that's the thing is like that's on the line here and it's what's concerning is, there was so much on the line and that Iowa game, like, you had everything in your hand, you controlled everything. You could really help positively help your own narrative and help

you push yourself into. Buh-bye territory into a three seasons, like you just, you pissed all that away. You didn't seem to fight for it at all and that's what's a little bit concerning here. Like this, these next, two to three weeks, you're going to have moments where it's all in the line. The legacy is on the line and how much you're going to fight for it. It's one of the, it's an odd psychological Quirk of this

group of players. And you know, it's partially Mike Woodson's players and it's partially Archie Miller's players and it's just been part of The way that this program is operated, I mean it last year's a great example. So last year, Indiana is staring at nit bid in the face and they somehow find it within themselves to Rally in the second half of that, Michigan game.

They come back and they win. They play this area the face and they come out flat, like that's why are they there staring in the face and they come out like this flat for 10 minutes, right? Right. Well, it kept 30 minutes really 25 minutes and but then they rally, they beat Illinois. They almost beat Iowa and Then they beat Wyoming in a game, you know, in a play-in game that they had to have and then they're leading st. Mary's 1814 with 10 minutes left

in the first half. And then, I mean, you know, that the, from the end of the first half to the middle of the second half, they a lot of 34, 25 run and it just feels like paper bag well in full sun. But I think it's fascinating because it's like this team, it does feel like and I think the parallel can be drawn with what happens with the Purdue game. You know, they go over to Purdue not everybody's giving them a chance. They haven't wanted Mackey in a decade. They'd they slay that Dragon,

they win. You know, they beat Purdue, and it's like we accomplished something and then they just let their guard down immediately. And that is essentially what set the table for the Iowa performance where they just came out and looked like they had nothing left to play for.

Whereas they very much did like they win that game and there with what happened earlier this week, they're sitting in the driver's seat for a 2 seed in the Big Ten tournament without any question and It instead and that's the thing is like that's where it's like again, I go back to that time out. Sorry to interrupt like it's like at some point somebody should have let him know like hey it's not realistic but like we went out Purdue loses out. We win the Big Ten title, right?

Yeah like I'm like they like as of Tuesday night, we still had a chance to get a CO Big Ten title as wild as that sounds. It was like it was on the table. Sorry. And it just felt like it is it seemed like the teams and I again I don't know what their actual mental state was but looking at their reactions. He's looking at their actions. It was like, well, we've done what we need to do and that is probably the one thing that would concern me the most.

I mean, it's almost to the point where it's like, if you want Indiana to do well in the NCAA tournament, are they better off losing on senior night? Or are they better off losing in the first round of the Big Ten Tournament? Because at least, then it's like, well, we got something to prove and now, we're, we got our backs against the wall and nobody believes in is like Sacramento or something and get a succeed, you know, really screwed.

Don't I mean again you know on the one hand I think it's unfair to be overly critical of this team for one performance because you know coming back from being one and four in the conference to where they're at. Has shown a lot of moxie and they've won some games that you wouldn't have expected them to win and they've done some things that I think belie the the well-worn statement that this team is like soft, but I do think that it's not so much that they're soft, but this team gets

incredibly. Be complacent sometimes about themselves about what they need to do and about what they've accomplished. And at the end of the day, they haven't accomplished anything. They've made barely made one, NCAA tournament in the last five years. They've, they're going to end up probably not with a double by in the Big Ten this year in a season. Where? Yes, they dealt with injuries but they also they gave away a game at Iowa. They gave away a game against Northwestern at home.

They gave away game at Northwestern. They could be Big Ten champs. Right now, we're close to it. If they had just taken care of business. You know, the Devil by Big Ten Tournament is cracks me up because it's like we talk about it as if like it's like put up a banner, I know. No, it's like, no, it's so alone. Oh no, it's true.

It's like, you know, it's like people used to make fun of our sins anger, who was the manager of Arsenal, in the Premier League because, you know, he one point that he in the Tottenham even in the Premier League, when you finish in the top four, you get a Champions League spot which means like a lot more money and you're playing in the main competition in Europe and what anger at some point said something along the lines of we know fourth place is essentially a trophy which it's absolutely

not you know yes you get into the champions league but that's not a trophy and that's kind of how like oh a double by. It's essentially the top four finish in the Premier League of the Big Ten. And yeah, I mean it's at least something. But what what concerns me about this team is I just don't think that you can count on them in pressure spots and Really the last hurdle. I feel like this particular group has to demonstrate that

they can overcome. Is this idea that when in bad situations, where things are going against them that they can Galvanize themselves to really perform, it's all pressure from here on out. It is well that and then and so maybe that's good, you know? Because last year the pressure was getting into the tournament and you're getting into the proper tournament like not being in the play-in game and they did

that. And so maybe, you know you but that's where this becomes problematic with This Iowa game because there's just, there's nothing that you could say about the way Indiana played in that game that would excuse the way that Indiana played in that game. Just. Nothing. And and that ultimately, the explanations afterwards were weak. Woodson had nothing to say. You could tell, he was incredibly frustrated and I don't look, I mean, people want to criticize Woodson.

That's fine. I don't know what you're supposed to do there in that particular situation as a coach oh yeah. When your team just basically pumps the whole game away from the get-go and and so Anyway, we had some questions. I wanted to get to from the audience that are in a similar vein here. One of them was actually right in line with what you asked and this was from from buff Komodo. Assuming a win versus Michigan. Should Indiana fans be satisfied with this season.

So let's put the put. The will put put the tournament aside if Indiana wins against Michigan, they will finish the season 21 and 10 and 12 and eight overall. Is that something that Indiana fans should be satisfied? Getting all the variables in this Ezel. That's a great question. I would say a very slight know, like, I'm talking like 55% over, 45% knowing.

And I only say that because you could go back and look and say, all right, you know, if we started the year, you know, I would take, you know, tied for third in the big, you know, tie for third in the Big Ten that record, you know, given the injuries like you probably take that but the journey is Part of

it there. And there was you know, there was a couple games that could have been wins couple games that could have been losses but just as you mention as a lot of games that it feels like, you know, I can't say like that, Iowa game was close, but it's like felt like we didn't even show like it's almost worse than a two point loss.

Where you're like, I love wish you could play that again because I'd love to actually have my controller hooked up and not be like pay playing, you know, Nintendo with my PS2 controller, just like nothing's working. So I leave The season kind of being a little bit like, damn, we were really close to doing something special in this team. Probably could have done it, or had they just closed out at Iowa or, you know, not gotten down so much at Northwestern.

So I are very slightly toward. It's a bit of a disappointment, interesting. I mean, I look at it like this. I think you have to take the injuries into account, not just the Xavier Johnson injury. You have to take the jail and Ruffino injury and in December into account as well. You have to take the race Thompson injury into account. I have a hard time seeing it as a disappointment given that Indiana was projected to probably win at best.

Like let's say let's assume Indiana wins the Big 10. Maybe, you know, the expectation would be what 14 and 6 in the conference, okay? So if they finish 12 and 8, they're going to finish two games under that, you know? Maybe they would have been expected to win one more non-conference. Game than they did. I don't look at that as a disappointment, you know. And I think that over why it's, that's why it's just slight, right? I understand.

You know, but but overall I think Indiana fans should look at this as a big step forward for the program overall. And I know a lot of people probably don't want to think about it that way and honestly, you know, of course, if they lose to Michigan, that's, you're not going to get people thinking

that way. But I will say that, you know, the way that I you Battled back after a tough, start in January and got over 500 in the Big 10 which they're going to have regardless of what happens in this Michigan game. For the first time since 2016, you don't want a nest, you know,

we're Indiana, right? You don't want to look at those as like accomplishments and yet they absolutely are accomplishments because of how bad this programs been for as long as it's been, you know, when you look at this roster, I think the one disappointment I will have on the season and again injuries have to be taken into account.

Account. The one disappointment I've got in the season and this will basically be the case whether or not any Anna wins or loses is how disappointing the bench and the depth development of this team has been. I mean it because at the end of the day Indiana and and Mike Woodson have managed to pull this off with essentially six players. They pull that. You know I say to well two main ones but look I think you've got

to give. I think you can give Miller cop credit for finally developing a new a reliable, you know. Fourth option. Trey Galloway's absolutely developed. I'm really excited to see what he does in his last two years. Jalen's Ruffino has been awesome. Tres Jackson, Davis has been awesome and race Thompson. You know, despite the injury has been serviceable to good in most cases, he's defended.

Well, he's picked up garbage stuff on the apis on the offensive end opposite from Trace where I'm disappointed is, you know, Malik renew, kind of had a weird up and down here and then, essentially as Flatline, the last six weeks and Tamar Bates has been essentially We a nonentity for the last two months and you know, Caleb Banks has contributed a little bit and that's been cool to see but he's still so young and he just can't

give a whole lot Logan dunk him. Never develop Jordan geronimo's essentially not been on the team. It feels like since that injury that he suffered earlier where he just like his minutes have dropped so significant because can't keep them on the floor and CJ gun. Looks like he's a year and a half away from contributing and and that certainly you can you can A you know, you can blame

coaches for that. You can blame players for not developing, I'm just generally kind of disappointed that we haven't seen more contributions from more people and I do worry a little bit about that in terms of the context of the season. But overall, I'm pretty pleased with what Indiana has been able to accomplish given all of the factors involved. But I think this is one of those things where everybody's going to take have their own take away.

And for a lot of people, they're not going to be able to cut off their thoughts on the season, based upon what happens at the end of the Regular season, and I think it's understandable action, but it's a great question, but yeah. Like in the end, what happens in the next three weeks is going to affect that answer. Just greatly csw. Hoosier asks, what is the key to getting this team to performing consistently? Is it on the coaches? The players both? Is it an attitude thing?

Is it a fatigue thing? I'm just scratching my head at this team, such a high ceiling but man, they love to find their

floor at Key moments. I mean, to me, the key with this team is they They have to have that to be engaged emotionally with what they're doing and they have to find some success on the defensive end early, but those seem to be the two keys and I don't know, I don't even think it's one of those things where you can necessarily tell going in because I mean, honestly, like I'm shocked this team beat, Purdue twice. I really am. You know? And I'm shocked that they dug in and beat Rutgers the way.

That that game was going. It looked like Rutgers was going to pull it off at the end. Like they've accomplished several things, this season the Illinois game at home was another one where it looked like they might lose like they've. They've found something deep within themselves. It's been really impressive at times. I don't, I mean, I think Woodson has done a pretty good job of pushing buttons behind the scenes and getting performances

out of guys, that key moments. I think this is a largely. It's a roster based internal thing and we saw this roster or at least parts of this. Roster over the course of the last two three seasons, just not show up when it mattered. And the fact that they've started to show up when it matters is really, really, really encouraging. Even though a lot of those players are, probably not going to be here next year. But the flip side of it is, they're still not all the way there.

And, you know, from my perspective, when I watch so much college basketball, when I watch teams that have a sense of like the group and what they're supposed to do, and what their mission is on a nightly basis, it just shows. Rose. I think Kansas does a great job of that. There's other teams. I feel like do a great job of that. Indiana does not when they when they're on. They're among the best in the country at portraying that. But when they're not they're just not.

And I don't think that's a coach thing. I think that's a this group of players has not figured out that you have to do that every single time. I don't even think that, they know what that exactly is like every single time, it's almost like they don't know themselves until five minutes into some of these games.

I just think we just need to make sure we play no more Marie, Brothers, the rest of this year because we don't do whether it's Keegan Murray or Chris Murray. We just don't do well against any of them worries. No, I'm with you because it's funny because there's in all of those losses that I mentioned. It's not like they didn't, you know, they have moments, they don't show up because they're all different like, the Rutgers one. They kind of, I would say no

showed most of that game. But like the Arizona, when they fought back, they had Fightin They just couldn't get it done. The Kansas game. That was that's really an outlier. I'm not giving you that would be like the Iowa. The loss that Iowa. They came out blazing. They were, they were firing off, they were engaged locked in, and then within that game, they just

weren't. They lost that, you know, the Northwestern Road game, they weren't locked in and they were locked in the Michigan State game. They really never got locked in the Iowa game. They just, you know, failed to get the ignition turned over. So it's like there are games to your point where they start locked in. You still can't feel like Great, that it's not going to happen and even though they started game unlocked and they can lock in.

So I think the answer is I don't think anybody knows. I don't Woodson knows, I don't think Steve knows but I don't think anybody knows what the answer is. And that's kind of the frightening part. It's, it's really remarkable. And it's it is a lot like just kind of your I don't even know how to describe it. Like, it is really like it's almost like if you're managing a band and sometimes they give the greatest performances in the history of Rock, And roll and other times.

Like I can't even do these guys even know how to play their instruments and you never know who you're going to get before they take the stage. What band are we? You're the bad guy. What bander we? Um I got a you know what? Let's ask the audience that if you've made it this far in the podcast like what band are we talking about here? By the way? This is I gotta say, it's not limited. I you we're doing this podcast. It's 9:15. You know what just happened, Rutgers just lost it.

Minnesota. I mean an Illinois and Illinois is pissing away a possible window. Michigan. By the way, I'd like to note Juwan, Howard made direct physical contact with Larry's, Corrado, didn't get called for a technical foul. I was told that was not a mattock technical foul. What the heck? Anyway, onward, let's talk a couple of other things here. So, Maddie will mentioned, I feel nervous about this whole tournament? Can we pin our hopes on anything? The Iowa game. Brought back some PTSD

understandable. I've also got Patrick in the comments. Mildly taunting me over the we need to get over the PTSD thing. I get it look. You can still hang your hat on a lot of things with this team.

I I feel like at the end of the day you almost I'm almost to some degree if this was going to happen and I we know that this is in the DNA of this team, it can happen if it was going to have to happen, I didn't want it to happen but if it was going to have to happen I guess it was better to have it happen there because they've been embarrassed in front of their home fans.

They've been Start national television and that is going to be. I think a good motivator for this team for at least the next few games. And look, you still, you still have a top, level player down low, and Trace Jackson Davis, you still have a borderline lottery pick in jail and Ruffino. Like you've got all of those that those things didn't go away. One bad game does not, suddenly make all of those players suck and you're still playing teams

that are flawed. Dad, just like you are but you're going to be doing it on a neutral floor. I think Indiana is going to be okay. And I think that you can still Bank on the things that Indiana has done over the course of the last month and a half by and large. I think if you know if I the things that I would be worried about right now are if Indiana runs into trouble early, how will they mentally handle that? And, you know, will there be lingering doubt.

So, I really feel like for this Michigan game coming up in Michigan, looks pretty resilient. Now they're on an 18. 24 run here. As we watch this Illinois game, they're up by 7 in overtime. Well now they're up by five little for type. Anyway, I'm not gonna stop doing play-by-play on this, but I think Indiana needs a good start. They need to get out. They need to get a little bit of

the lead. They need to be able to play with the lead, and they need to get some confidence in themselves and that's really where it all starts. And then from there, you know, at this stage I think as long as Indiana beats Michigan, which is not a foregone In conclusion, I don't think the Iowa game is actually going to hurt them that much in terms of seating. I think it knocks them off the three line, probably permanently.

But I still had them as a for and I tried my damnedest to move them down and I couldn't like, I could not justify moving them below. Miami Below, Virginia. If you think you can do better, go go do the Bracketology and tell me what your justification was because I really couldn't, and I was actively, like, I really need to put Indiana on the 5 line. Lest I be accused of home. ISM. But realistically, everybody's got Indiana there because their resume is still good.

Now, you lose another home game that may be changes, but right now they didn't do themselves so much damage in that game. So now, we see what they do with the, the, the response to that, I guess. So, to answer that question, like I would say, this goes for the Michigan game and honestly, for the rest of the games this year, I think that this team is thinking about this, on the drive back because you heard like, I heard the Don Fisher. Postgame. It's like, yeah, we just don't Eric.

Sir were saying we don't have anybody to guard, Chris Murray, and it's like, that's very true. I saw that all night. Yeah, Illinois is now only down to told you all the way up. Let's go play by, this is great. Play by play podcasting, people listening to five days later and it's true. We I felt bad for Miller copter in that game because like he can't guard, Chris Murray. But my flip side, the argument to that is that we have no one to guard Chris Murray.

But guess what I was got. No one to guard jail, huh? Chaffee know. And they have no one to Our Trace Jackson Davis, right? And so, what we need to do, a better job of is making teams uncomfortable and make them be uncomfortable with the matchup matchup issues that we provide because very few teams, I would say in the country are able to match up with Trace Jackson, Davis, and with Jalen Hood Ruffino. Just a most teams don't have an elite level guard and an elite-level post player.

I know it's tied and I know you're busy but they don't have those two things. Now a lot of teams like Michigan, Ian has jet Howard. We have no one who can guard him. Chris Murray, there's a lot of guys in that position that were not able to guard. What we have to do is not let those guys get comfortable. Let's play to our advantage, let's do a better deal.

Bet. The thing with that Iowa game is you know it's like it's ate nothing before you know it hit Ruffino. Miss an open, three trig Alamos, knoblauch to one of those two goes down. Maybe it's a totally different. Feel probably knocked sir, we just do showed but the point stands within the first minute and a half, it's like Chris Murray is comfy. And he's cozy and like they're not worried about the matchup

problems that we provide. So in my that's what we have to do. The rest of this season is like immediately put our stamp on the game and let the other team, whether it's Michigan or whoever we play in the next two tournaments know, like make them not be like, oh, who you know who's gonna guard Chris Murray or the Chris Murray facsimile. But make that other team say, who are we, how are we going to guard these two? Who's regard, the god, who's

gonna guard Trace? Who's gonna guard jail me, like, we've got to put the other. We've got to push the game to the other teams. That that's my I feel.

Yeah, I think that's right. I mean look this team is much better at being the the decisive one, but they also sometimes do too much of it, like Tony and I talked earlier on the podcast like stop lobbying on breaks, they've lost so many possessions, do you know, just throwing passes, the didn't need to be thrown because this team tries to do too much, but by the same token when they're passive, they get steamrolled by and large. And so it's a delicate balance

with this particular group. And I Don't know exactly what to say about it other than they have got to do a better job at figuring out what they're supposed to be doing overall, you know, on the thing that's wow, you, uh, you know, it's funny, we're here. Criticizing iu4, struggling with brakes, Illinois. Just blew three on one with three and a half seconds left. Where they could have won the game. They didn't even get a shot off

because of a terrible path. So maybe we're just being overly Critical with IU for no reason this. Might be the most bizarre listening experience that our listeners have had in a while, so I can grant what other guys had an open three. He not only passed up an open three to win the game. He then pass it to your horrible. This is great.

I'm sorry folks. What you really should do is like, it's kind of like director commentary for a movie that you didn't have a ticket to Wizard of Oz in the wall. Like you gotta sync up this way. Dark Side of the Moon, not the wall. Warty hazards on the soundtracks. Got no, no. Okay, you obviously haven't, you got really stoned when you put it that way. Anything matches up with dark side of the moon, right? Wait, actually, just like that way. I bet Michigan Illinois.

Like if you, if you start on the second lion's roar, right? When that passed goes behind, Matthew Myer. Yeah. Yes. A podcast brought to you by Columbia Records. Couple of other questions or comments. Jen gone. Her comment all day. Today, I've been thinking about the fact it's going to be traces last home game. It's crazy to me. How quickly these four years have gone by? I just hope he has a great last game. He'll buy, you fans give him an amazing send-off.

I do I mean obviously I agree with all that and I will say, like, the you mentioned Legacy earlier with trace and you know, it's tough because like I mean I you got blown out by Iowa and lost him. That was you know the statistical game that people wanted out of Trace to previous two games. He had a 26 and 13 with five assists and 4 steals. I mean, I don't know what else the guy could have done at least, you know, I mean he could probably get it aboard. Offensively.

But everybody could have in that game, he has been, he's gonna be an interesting case. Historically, you know, statistically he's unassailable, you know, and unfortunately he's at a school where statistical unassailable Leti is only part of the the kind of the Codex of your career. And ultimately I think what people want to see out of Trace is HIM lead the team to something.

No. Worthy and there's such a thirst for that among this fan base understandably so that you're going to see some harsh words if he doesn't do that. And I think that's unfortunate. I mean I think this is a player that's been a national leader in three of his Four Seasons. Essentially, you know, in offensive efficiency, he's been a national leader in a bunch of Statistics across the board

over. The course of his whole career and he's not really been given and think until this year a good Supporting Cast to do things with. And I think that the you know one day we're going to go back and look at this group of games that started with that, Wisconsin game on the 14th of January and ran all the way through to the end of the conference season. And we're going to be like, how the what, how what he did, what

he scored. Many points and grabbed, how many rebounds and they beat Purdue twice, and they beat Rutgers and they beat Illinois twice. I mean, the, the accomplishments in that stretch and the accomplishments that he's had, in terms of some of the other individual moments are a level of special, you don't normally see with IU players and it's going to be. As you said, it's a shame that so much of that Legacy is kind of on the line in terms of like, where does he rank?

It's a little bit like I think about a.j. Guyton in some ways where Guyton never until his senior year, really had a team around him that could complement him fully and then, you know, right? At the end of it, a bunch of stuff happens. And essentially the bottom falls out of the of the mental and emotional aspects of that team. So it's hard to really like fully quantify what AJ Guyton did. And I think Tres Jackson Davis has made a far greater contribution overall, then

Guyton did. That's not any aspersions. Is on Guyton. I mean that's really more of a huge compliment to trace Jackson Davis. And so look, I hope Indiana goes out and wins handily. I hope Trace Jackson, Davis gets a big Standing Ovation. I hope he, you know, gets a chance to say what he wants to say to the crowd. And I hope the crowds able to give him the kind of appreciation that he deserves over. You know, what has been a, an exemplary career for an IU basketball player.

That's been unfortunately, marred by I you being in one of the August doldrums periods of its program history. Stole it from me. As you're talking, I'm looking at the top 10 scoring list. It's like, every you skull. The Guyton cop is just such a great call. I will just expand on that. No, it's the, the top ten scores of all time and IU basketball history. You go Kent, Benson Damon, Bailey Alan Henderson Yogi. Ferrell Mike Woodson, AJ Gaiden Trace Jackson.

Davis, Don Schult Steve Alford Calbert cheaney. Everybody has either won a national title or a Big Ten title in some cases. Both except for AJ Guyton, and Trace Jackson. Descend, what's funny is you and I went to the AJ Guyton is exactly the same age. We had to school the exact same time. I feel like he has a very high approval rating among the IU fan. Nobody looks back. And it's like, oh man, he was just all stats and no record and he gets a little bit of end of night Sheen.

But you know, you look at his the teams that he was on 9 and 9 in the Big Ten, you know, his freshman year night and 7:00 in the Big 10, 9 and 7 in the Big Ten and then 10 and 6 in the Big Ten. 10 and he won, two, NCAA tournament games in four years. I'm not knocking, AJ Guyton, but it's like, there's not a lot of level high level success there either. And so I'm with, it's not, this is not trying to knock AJ guy. He's on my favorite players of all time, but it goes to show

that. I think Trace is also being judged a little bit more harshly because he can basically match all of those things, one more tournament win this year and he can exceed them this year and his, you know, for his legacy. Done being written. Like he leads this team to a, you know, a hell of a game in the sweet 16 or the Elite 8. That changes a lot of things. It takes seems to a final four, that changes a million different things. So it's not like that has to be said, it hasn't been written

yet. But I am with, you know, as it stands for Sunday like this has been, you know, one of the most influential IU basketball careers in the last 20 years, you know, and and it's been a weird 20-year run, but this is somebody who's put in a full four years, you know?

I would, I can't do have top my head, but it's like, since night left, you know who were the most important players at IU, you know, Yogi Ferrell is up there, you know, Zeller Oladipo or up there and and Trace Jackson Davis is up there. So it's, you know, well of the new new Central to its. It's he's everyone should just cheer be happy, be happy. He was here and you know, we can we can discuss Legacy in the off season, but his legacy is going. Going to be up there.

It's just as you said it is, it is weird because there's a lot of guys, you know, unfortunately a tie you guys who have a lot of stats. Also have a lot of Team accolades and unfortunately for a variety of reasons, it didn't happen for Trace. But I'm with you, we will look back on this stretch this year since J since January and be like, what the hell did he do? Yeah, like really like that's that's what he those are. What the numbers he put up and he didn't win Big Ten Player of the Year.

Oh Edie had those numbers as well anyway. So yeah. It's Yeah, it's go cheer. I do wonder, you know, I will say this like you know, I mean Yogi Ferrell ended up winning a Big Ten title is senior year. Do we remember Yogi Ferrell the same way? If he isn't a freshman on the team in 2013, it'll be Yogi Ferrell to mean as much of an accomplished player as he was was at a far better like structure. In terms of Team around him then Trace Jackson Davis has had an

old, but his senior year. And even then I would take probably Certainly two out of the four teams that Yogi Ferrell had over this team. It just in terms of overall composition and so I do think that you have to factor that into the equation. A little bit with Trace, Jackson, Davis, but we'll have time to talk about that and I'll get a lot of. It will come down to what happens in the tournament. Anyway, we've gone longer than I thought we would on this one. So let me let me finish it off

with this. Like as we think about what is going on, moving forward, you know we don't know what's going to happen with with IU and the tournament. You know, the even either, turn it. What what number by do you think we're going to get to in the Big Ten Tournament? Like we're going to have some sorry. Not sorry, sorry sorry, not by wrong word, what level? Tiebreak you think we're going to get to in some of these well decisions.

Like are we going to get to a third time Break Forth tiebreak? I mean I'll say it's funny right now. Like, let's regardless of what happens in this Illinois, Michigan game, which is still going on. I was who the hell? What the hell does this look like right now in double overtime? It looks like Illinois is going to win.

Like to note, Michigan's already had like four players playing over 40 minutes in this game, which bodes, well, since they have to come to Bloomington and play in a couple of days. But regardless of the direction that this goes with Rutgers losing today, Indiana, if Indiana wins over Michigan.

If Michigan State beats Ohio state of Iowa, beats, Nebraska of Wisconsin beats Minnesota. If Maryland beats Penn State, and then if Purdue beats, Illinois and Rutgers beats Northwestern Indiana's, the four seed. In a three-way tie with Iowa and Maryland. Indiana would finish fourth out of that but would still get the double by because the tiebreak to both of them. Yes. But we'd still be the fourth seed because there were tied for second. So it go. It would go pro, do it?

Yeah. It should be Purdue at 15 and 5 under that scenario, Iowa, 12 and 8, Maryland, 12 and 8, Indiana 12 and 8, Michigan State, 11 8 and then Michigan 11 and 9 tied with Illinois. In Rutgers in Northwestern, you know. Now, it could get crazier if other teams lost and Indiana could actually improve their ranking a little bit, not do anything that they would do themselves, but more through, if other results went in a slightly

different way. But ultimately, you know, Indiana, I think if they take care of business now is still actually in relatively decent shape for that double by even if they don't get it though, I don't know that it's the worst

thing in the world. If Indiana, Like, you know, has to play on Thursday. If they're the five seed, they play the 12, whoever they are the winner of the 1213 game and then they get a chance to play a little bit, you know, against the next T maybe they win that maybe they don't, they get a couple extra days off, I don't think it's going to necessarily hurt their seating. There's still going to be the 45

game. It doesn't matter really, whether you're a four or five, I mean, it's like you might get a slightly easier first round opponent as a five or is it for is versus a five but who the hell knows? Doesn't it kind of affect the ability to get the region like the the Columbus Louisville? Well, you're not going to get Columbus at this point. That's pretty much off the table, so I would not worry about that. I think the bigger question now is, can you get into a region?

That's going to feed into the South with the going to feed into little? Well, that's certainly still on the table so we'll see. Anyway, 45 matter for that. No, it doesn't really because four and five generally will play. They play in the same bracketed region or sub-region. No, but you know, where it's going to matter is just like where everybody else has fallen in relation to things and that's that's going to be curious to

watch, I think moving forward. So look at this point, I think Indiana's biggest thing is they've just got to win the game in front of them when their first Big Ten Tournament game, that's really all you got to do if you want to stay at that level and then and honestly what happens in the turnip Big Ten tournament at point doesn't matter. Then it's About getting ready for the NCAA tournament. This is like the one year where I would say punt the Big Ten

tournament. It's not going to significantly help your seeding. I don't think and in and at the end at the end of the day this team really needs the rest. I think more than they need a couple of neutral Court winds that may not even necessarily count that much in the eyes of the tournament selection committee. But we'll talk about that next week as we see who the actual opponents might be. And that's the other way to look

at this glass. Half-full is You know, not getting the double by everyone's at God's just more games, the Big Ten Tournament. If you go one and one doesn't really matter if you go one-on-one but you played on, you know, Thursday and Friday. Instead of Friday and Saturday actually gives you an extra day. Arrest. Yeah. And I'm not saying you throw the second game but it's like there is a world where if you're going to go one and one I'd rather have that last game be Friday.

And then get an extra day of rest to your point. And then you know because the chance of us running the table and winning the Big Ten Tournament is prob probably unlikely. And honestly with the way this team it's like the More games. You go without having the dud, I get nervous. So it's like I don't I want to save all the good games. If we just ran the tournament, the big tent. I'd be ecstatic if he cool but then the there be a part of me, it's like, oh, like I the does

coming. I will say, I do Wonder psychologically for the fanbase. How would you feel that? Don't answer this. This is a rhetorical question, this is more for the audience. How would you feel if this IU team won? The Big Ten tournament and then lost in the second round of the NCAA tournament. Think about that, will talk about it. Next time. I don't want to hear, I don't want her option. I want the other option.

No, I don't want to hear you. Want to hear your answer on this but anyway, that'll wrap it up for us. Thank you for sticking with us. I'm sorry. This was a loopy podcast in a lot of ways but hopefully it was entertaining to you. We're not going to finish the play-by-play on the lll announce know you and I are going to watch it on our own and then we'll talk about it next time. How about that? Anyway, I you plays this weekend Sunday? Senior Day against Michigan.

Be sure to watch that. We'll be back with more. Thanks to home field. Apparel. Thanks to our friends at the back home network and we'll catch you folks on the flip side, bring back the Bison, so everybody Apparel. Thanks to our friends at the back home network and we'll catch you folks on the flip side, bring back the Bison, so everybody