You're listening to the back home network presented by home-field apparel. All right, folks, welcome back to Crimson cast. Scott here with you, it's funny as Galen. And I did our last post game after the Purdue game. I was like, All right. I can be done podcasting about IU football for a while done listening to it. I was ready to shut it down and then Galen has done a couple of football Recaps, which I've
thoroughly enjoyed. And now I'm doing a football recap so I guess we can't get away from football. It's the thing we can't stop. Loving that said, it really was a interesting season. I think it's a pivotal season in the Tom Allen 10-year. I think this offseason is going to be interesting. And you know as a fan myself I wanted to get a really Good feel for The Fan Experience and what Panther fans are feeling out there.
So no better to talk to than can buy cough, who is the host of the postgame show, the postgame call-in, show for IU, football on the learfield network. And so wanted to get him on here and get his opinions on what we saw this year and so excited to talk to him. Before we get there, got to talk about our friends at home field, apparel you've heard all before. But here's my thing is awesome with home-field apparel.
They just announced the four teams in the college football playoff You can buy stuff for all of them at home field. Home field has them all. I think we start keeping track of this as the college football expands to 12 teams in the playoff. I bet there will be ears, were all 12 teams will be available on home field apparel. I bet final fours for college basketball, you can get them all and home field at home Fields, got it all.
I'm looking at TCU stuff because I just as a self-respecting Big Ten East Indiana fan, I can't really wrap Michigan or Ohio State gear Georgia stuff looks Cool. But no real connection there. So TCU has some great fear, the Frog shirts, fighting frog shirts. If you're going to pick a school to go with, there's some really cool TCU stuff there, use promo code home to save. 15% off your first purchase promo, code home and they have great deals, going
all throughout the winter. So you might be better off using one of those deals and then having, you know, give the 15% off to your mom or something and let her order for you in the spring when we're going to final four. So Home field. Apparel.com. Check them out. Without further Ado, here's my conversation with Ken by cough enjoy. Alright delighted to have Ken back on, you know, Ken from peace.com but also more importantly. He is the host of the postgame call-in show for IU football.
It's been too long but I think he's a great person to talk to you about IU football, but also to get a Fan's perspective because he deals with them after every game, which is really, really God's work as a special place in heaven for you, my friend. So, Ken good to talk to you, buddy. It's good to talk to you and, you know, people don't necessarily realize or remember that I man alone, you know, and so yeah. In terms of Wanting IU football to do well, and all that.
Yeah, you have the journalistic part of it but, you know, just from a personal standpoint, you know it, I know journalists. Love to go ahead and try to act like that disappears. It doesn't disappear, and somebody who covers the team wants the team to do well, and because it's more fun to watch good football than it is to watch bad football.
But we've been stuck with with this, oh, I certainly understand the passion of fans when they are dealing with that and calling me. Me week over week over week and I would far prefer people to call complaining then to just be apathetic and give up. I want that passion over. Apathy every time. Yeah. I were not hate the word starting with this because the topic that I absolutely despise, I get so tired. I mean I've been I'm an alumni as well.
I'm an alumnus as well. I've been going to IU game since like the mid-80s. I've been a season ticket holder since like 08. So I paid my dues. I get really tired of the, you know, fans just need to support this team of Got to step up the fans. The support is. There you see it even this season after a miserable season last year, you know, against Michigan. The the students are there in
full effect for the entire game. The place is packed, you know, last year against Cincinnati. You know, it doesn't it's always that argument, always bothers me because the fans have shown up sometimes on very little success, they'll show up in force and then normally they end up getting you. The football pulled away for them like Charlie Brown but I get tired of the its fans job sport. Now you're kind of seeing that a little bit. With n IO. But let's let's save all that
stuff for the end. So I want to talk about this season but that but the fan part is part of the equation. I mean, yeah. That that it just is from a recruiting standpoint in all of that. It is part of the equation. Now, like you said though, people have shown up the last couple of years not every game but at times and they've been disappointed.
So one of the things that came out of covid-19, two straight years of, you know, eight and five and six and two and people showed up last season and what You had was half a campus of undergrads who had never had the opportunity to go to a football game and in two years because the Freshman couldn't go when
they were freshmen saw. And so, they were able to finally start going when they were sophomores and freshmen are obviously just going to go. And so you had the opportunity to kind of change that culture when it came to the fan base, by having some success and they didn't. And that that really, really hurts. So looking at this last season, that we go 4 and 8 2 and 7 and Conference, you know, but there's a couple ways you can look at this year. I'm curious just from your
perspective. How do you kind of classify this last season? We just saw from IU football. I wasn't good. It wasn't good. It's you had games where they were closed and they had to
finish. And that's all a big part of the equation and you had 3 games early in the season, when they found a way to finish and they found a way to a to pull it out even though the offensive line was playing terribly, even though you had a defense that was far too generous and they did manage to come back and win a game late in the season to finish four and eight, you know, you win the bucket and your five and seven and there's some momentum to it.
The, the problem is that you just had too many close ones that they had an opportunity to win that they let get away and let get away in ways that we've seen before and it was the same thing week over week over week. It took too long for some changes to be made both in Personnel. Both in along the coaching staff.
So it's a disappointing year. It's great that they doubled their win total from the year before, but it's just simply it's not going to cut it. I mean it's plain and simple and that to me is, is the frustrating part of it because it wasn't a good year. You got close but closes and good enough. And you know, and usually when you had as many older guys on that defense as You did, even if you're banged up, you need better performances than what we got. And it did to me.
That's why it was just a really disappointing year. I had had gone through and going into the fourth quarter. And I want to say seven out of the nine, Big 10 games, Indiana, either was leading tied or within seven points of of their
opponent. Going into the fourth quarter and they weren't able to do it, get it done against And Nebraska and Rutgers and Maryland and all of these ball clubs were you had that opportunity but I said you know over and over and over again it's not how it's How many and they weren't able to finish
and and pick up those victories. They win against Rutgers, they win against Maryland. It's a completely different feeling to the end of the season as they go and they squandered every one of those opportunities so it's just a disappointing day. Disappointing year. I agree and it's also coming off of may be the most disappointing year in at least the last 20, 30 years and I you football and
that's that's the tough thing. That's this hard to reconcile here because I definitely, you know, I don't at all agree with the idea that you know 2020 was a fluke. When you look at me differently there were some interesting things that happened in that season but as you pointed out you know the end of the Kevin Wilson Arrow Through the start of the Tom Allen era. You got to a point where, you know they were at least going for a bowl game in the bucket.
They had five wins going to the Purdue game or when they didn't, they actually went to a bowl game.
So you have this progression up and it kind of felt like, all right, we we found our footing and we don't need to go back to the depths of the Big Ten and then for it just to go off a cliff that quickly is, is tough, but I'm curious, you know, it almost feels like, there's that moment where we win the Wisconsin game, Tom, Allen's talking to the press and you know, ESPN people are like this coach in America, you know? It's a great moment that everybody remembers.
It's almost like that was the high-water mark everything since then taking up the Big Ten logo for the Ballgame. Like everything has not seemed to go. Well, I'm curious if you can pinpoint kind of what happened. Like it's just a really big fall and, you know, I often hear the discussion of like you maybe it's like Pat Fitzgerald, at Northwest when he goes high as a little the trouble is it's like
patents. Jose has highs like he wins Big Ten title or he goes to a Rose Bowl like and then he has lows and he comes back and does it again. I guess. The question is, can we do it again? Sorry, too many questions. What do you think happened there at the end of 2020 or do you even see? That is kind of the inflection point or not? Well, I know it is the inflection point. You look at 20:20 you people talk about 2020 being a fluke forgetting that I you 18 and 5
the year before that. And so I mean you that Foundation was said then they go 6 and 2 in 2020 and they play Tennessee in the Gator Bowl and two years later. Indiana has lost. What is it now? 17 of 18, big ten games and you have seven and said 17 of 18, big ten games and then they and Tennessee has been number one team in the country. So you know, you have two programs that have gone very different directions, I have you
know, last year. Tom Allen talked about how he felt his team came into the 2021 season 2. Kind of reading their own hype and 22, confident, and feeling like they had made it. You know, it does come down to quarterback play, it comes down to offensive line, it comes down
to all of that. And, you know, to me it, there are there's so many problems with that with that football program right now, but the most important position in sports, it is quarterback and Michael penix was there and we've seen what Michael penix can do with decent receivers and and time to throw and he just didn't have it last year, rather in 20.
Yeah, in 20. Twenty twenty twenty one, so it was quarterback play, but it was quarterback play that struggled because of play-calling and it struggled because of poor offensive line. And the defense took a step back, which we knew they had lost some players, but still the steps that were taken back there isn't one?
I don't think there's one incident outside of what I always get hung up on is the onside kick against Tennessee at the Gator Bowl and that one that play, you know, if Indiana wins the Gator Bowl I does 2021 happen the way it does. I don't know because, you know, it does it, it does, it draw more people, the more fan, more recruits more, everything that goes along with it, it's tough to say, but that one haunts me because Indiana ended up losing that bowl game, the way we've
seen Indiana lose games before. And so it was that feeling of this is a special year, but it also ended a way that was really familiar the other Thing is the ground underneath college football changed and at the absolute worst time for Indiana football at a time when it needs stability. When it needs some time to be able to succeed.
Be successful year over year, you put together seasons of 5 + 7, 5 & 7, 8 & 5, 6 & 2, and then when you have a bad season, it's also at a time when people could start moving around and leaving and and To me, there isn't any one spot, but there are a pile of decisions that have kind of snowballed to where we are now.
Yeah, the quarterback thing. It's tough for me because you know I look at last year and I drove to Iowa I was at that game and it was funny you know, I was telling my boys about it. I was excited that you know, we're going to do the wave really excited to show them that. It's like we're down 21-nothing and like, two and a half minutes or four minutes of gameplay. And I like tell my wife like
We're going to make to the wave. We might leave before the end of the first quarter, but you saw early on whether it was health or just, you know, Comfort the pocket like penix did not look ready to play. That's right. And absolutely his comeback from a rough injury. What I? And again I always preface this like I know that football coaches know more than me, I'm just do do podcasts and watch football.
I know they know more but there's a part where I struggle to understand like how did they not see that? Was it, where was it? Just that was their best option. But how did they not see that he didn't look 100% ready? And then the rest of the season, it's like art. We're going to do Jack Toto. Think we're just, we're kind of like on our heels. Like, how did you not have a plan B in place? Then you go into this season?
Same thing, you go with Connor, Bay's lack, and then I still am confused as to what happened after Rutgers like he wasn't hurt, but he didn't play against Penn State, but he wasn't hurt enough. That he then played the next week, but then you get total in there. Tell who gets hurt and then it's like you put in sores be and then you go to Dexter Williams, not something. To Williams the future. So why wasn't he? Why is he your fourth string back up?
Like it's, it looks like we're always confused and wondering why we're having these issues. When, by the way, is the team, where I think Osterman do this with gaalan on their pod. Like, we've had a season-ending quarterback injury, like 13. The last 16 years and that's just a variety of factors. It's nobody's fault, but it is something you almost have to
prepare for as an IU coach. And it does seem like we're always Like confused, shocked, befuddled and don't seem to know what to do when we have quarterback instability. So, I'm just it's, it's frustrating, but it also makes me wonder like, what are they seeing that, that I'm not. Well, it's the quarterback handling has been atrocious over the years. I mean, just absolutely terrible for again for the most important position on your team.
Kevin Wilson, handled it terribly just terribly and Tom
Allen has not done a good job. Either now, Tom Allen, the way that he has approached things has always been kind of, he's the head coach of the defense, and you have offensive coordinators the head coach of the offense and so that's part of it. He had previously talked about how he likes a dual threat quarterback but the problem is if you look at the guys that they've had at quarterback you haven't had a lot of dual-threat guys and you know Michael penix
wasn't that guy yeah it runs very pleasant. Indeed are on very much. You know, he was mobile but that's different than being a dual threat guy. So the issue last year was the same as it was this year to wear. When you're starting quarterback went down, you had to use a completely different offense than you did that, then your first drink I did. And so that's what you ran into this year.
Was you had Connor, Bay's lag, who's brought in which I have a problem that you are on your six of your program and you're bringing In grad transfer guys, when you have guys that have been in your program year, over year over year, that aren't developing to where they need to be. That to me is an issue that that you have that in will have that same situation going into next year as well because you don't
have anybody that's waiting. But so you have base lack, their base lack was inconsistent and was not, anybody who could be successful with the offensive line, the way it was You have him missing the game against against was it Rutgers or Penn State state Penn State total gets hurt. And so then, Brandon sores be is brought in. And that was the move where everybody said, what are you
doing? What are, you know, you if you don't have Dexter Williams, ready, I always say coaching is a two-part equation, its players, but the coaches have to be there too, but regardless, if you don't have some kind of package, ready, knowing That that these guys are a snap away from having to go in, what are you preparing for? What are you doing, bringing in Brandon swords be was a head
scratcher. And then you have decks and decks, look, the looked good, you know, I mean, he he didn't throw the ball well, but it did change. What Indiana was able to do. To me, you have different drastically, different styles of quarterback. So that when you have A pocket passer like Bay's lack is he comes out of the game. You have to completely change your your the way that you go about things especially after Jack. Tuttle got hurt now.
To me, it's they painted themselves in a corner, a little bit with Bay's, lack, because they said he was hurt, he was banged up and, and all of this, you know, that's what the coaches say. And they know better than I do given his play and given comments prior to the bye week. It sure did seem like they were planning on going a different
direction in quarterback. So now, total gets hurt and It was weird to me, they had Bay's lack up in the Press Box for that Penn State game because they said they wanted to see him from above to me if you you want to have him on the field, talking to the other guys and doing all that. But that's not what they did. They had babies like up in the Press Box. That's fine. That's a coach's choice but now you have to bring him back.
And this is a guy that, you know, a if, if he was sat down, Bays lack, you know, wasn't excited for it. So they had to bring them back against Ohio State and then they let him A couple of series and they bring a Dexter. So again to me get side to me and then Dexter gets hurt and base like has to go back in. So you have this revolving door for the second straight year. Where do you end up last year with a walk-on starting against the Purdue again in the bucket
game? And Grant Grandma, you had Diamond McCauley wouldn't throw the football moves to wide receiver. It is a quarterback position that has just been horribly mangled because you have a moving Target constantly in the style of player to have in the the offense that you have that look that's another issue where this is now, what is it? The fourth offense of coordinator and six years is that right? That what it is so or is it? Yeah, they're on their fourth
offensive coordinator. So that's not helpful when you're trying to build that quarterback position but again to me It's a head-scratcher on how that has been handled because you have to have a vision. You have to have what you want your program to look like. And it can't simply depend on a guy getting hurt and everything has to change to me. It to me that that has been an
issue. Yeah. No and that's, you know, and this is something I've heard is kind of the the seasons people have been kind of putting in the context, as you know, more is made of that Purdue game. That I think really happened that, you know, the Dexter Williams injury is And I feel for that's a horrible injury. It sucks. That is just that's a freak thing that just absolutely sucks. I feel for the kid on the flip side, this is a kid who has thrown 38 passes and completed 13 for the year.
He's got a good-looking arm but you know I was pulling up other stats like in 2015, you know, Xander diamant, attempted, 31 passes, and completed 15. Very similar numbers in two games. I'm not trying to compare the two. I think the experience is much better. Her arm. But this weird narrative has, I'm seeing kind of propagate with Dex doesn't get hurt or up 73. Probably when they came. It's like I don't like I don't
know. And like you know it definitely does hurt the feel going in the next year that you know, Williams is probably out for the year. But I was one of the few who like I'm already concerned with him as our quarterback next year, even before the injury because, you know, he looked very similar to this on McAuley who was did that last year and then all of a sudden he's a wide receiver and not even quarterback.
More. So it's it's just all head-scratching but it does put this, this is kind of been what I've seen coming and where we are now. Is this program is in its, in a really tough spot, you have a guy in Tom Allen, who we said here, A bunch of times.
I know you probably deal with people in the postgame all the time but it's like if you know what's going on, he's here for the next two, maybe three years, no matter what, and that's just that is what it is, whether you like it or not, so just that, that becomes that part of it. But this is a guy who's got to figure out a way to get his program back. And It's it's tough because you mentioned your painting into the
corner. I've said this to like the the whole program is painted in a corner because you really can't change the offense of coordinator. Again, you've done that four out of six years. The defensive coordinator, I guess you could change but he didn't even get to coordinate this year. Having Tom Allen ran the defense which is also a puzzling thing that that's what was supposed to feel good. It's you know in Pro Football Focus.
It's the second worst rated defense in the Big Ten just ahead of Northwestern which is not in your behind the Braska. Not exactly where you To be, you know, we got rid of Hitler, which is good, but again, I always joke that it's like, you know, if we're watching, you know, a Big Ten basketball game and it's like, hey Nebraska, you know, in basketball, they change their third assistance, like our who cares, what?
Nebraska, it's like 10 line. Coach is going to change it, so it's like you can't really making those changes. The coach is going to stay the same and now you have a ton of turnover and all that culture, That was supposed to be being built as gamma chi. I mean, this is where the money comes from, but it's like, I don't this, what the moneys for, but I Don't I honestly, this is one of those few times.
I have no idea what the answer is to solve this, but you have to figure out a way to get this team back into Bowl eligibility, but it's going to be tough because they're painted into a corner in so many different areas and you lose all the momentum of people least being excited to see if Dexter Williams could be a good quarterback next year because now you come in with just question marks basically, at all
skill positions. Once again after that, Ohio State game, I said, you know, this is the, the next two games. Are preseason games for 2023 where you're selling Yeah, a vision you're selling on what this program could be. And so, did you know, they beat Michigan State and that was nice, but it was just one game and, you know, it Dexter stays in that Purdue game. Do they win? It's me, Dexter doesn't play defense.
He doesn't, it doesn't get them to play better that way, but it really is an issue to say the least. Because, you know, after last year 2 and 10, Tom talked about just stripping everything down to Bare Bones, you know, looking at absolutely everything and where can we get better? And, you know, we got player councils and Leadership Council any and all this kind of stuff, change, defensive border, and change, offensive coordinator. You've done what you can in
that? So now, after going for an eight on the year, how do you come back and say, okay well we're going to strip it down to the studs again. You can't do that, you can't do that. I mean, that's it because you've already done that, and this is not to interrupt, but this is the trouble. I have with Tom Allen is, you know, good or bad. He's never been like an amazing X's and O's coach, he's not, but he's a guy who gets more out of players and maybe they should
he's a vow. As Galen, says, he's Vibes coach a really good with culture, no doubt about it, and he took a team to higher levels that I use had in 70 years. Like I'm not disputing that and he Guys, to play better as a some than the hole and that's great and you can do that. You don't have to be good at X's and O's, but they like, so you're a culture guy. That's great. That's where I have a real trouble.
We're after 2020, what? It's like over the culture sucking, it's like, all right, well, that's that's what you're good at. Like you're not the best at X's and O's and I'm not being a dick, is just, it is true. So if you're not good at culture, like now, what are we left with? And now another year, it's like where we have another kind of seemingly some culture issues, it's like what What are you being? What are you selling here? And what is your one?
Key ingredient? Because being the Indiana football, coach is hard. Like, you've got to be really good at something because this is one of the toughest jobs in America. And, and that's what, that's what freaks me out is that it's like you're being sold on like, it's a culture and I agree with and that's what you're good at and then to go the culture sucks. Like, alright, well that accepts again. It's like I don't know where you're turning to.
Yeah. No. And the frustration too is that, you know, you don't have a team, a program with an identity, you know, when Tom And came here. He completely changed that defense, you know, it's a complete 180 change to where they were awful to where they were getting stops. And then his first four years, they were very, very solid defensively in the past two years that hasn't been the case. And so your identity isn't defense anymore, you don't have an identity on offense.
You're not like a throw the ball around the yard team. You're not a pound the ball on through the Run team. You just don't have an identity and with the culture portion of it, this Is why I said, you know the ground shifted under Indiana. You you have a culture to wear your everybody's playing for one another. The Elio is front and center on, absolutely everything.
But then you also have the transfer portal and you have n IL money to where all of a sudden, the players who maybe once upon a time, that could work long-term with playing for the guy on to the your left and to your right. Well, now you're welcoming in a bunch of guys from other programs and they've seen they met Senior, you got guys from Ole, Miss you, got guys from Albarn.
They've seen what happens in a program where there has been success and what the attitude is and then they come here and they see that it's not like that not in here, you're not having that kind of success. So at what point do guys start playing for themselves? What time at, what point do they try to show out for themselves and then you throw in Ni L money and or the lack thereof and they hear what other people are. Getting all of that to me works together.
Whether to break down that whole idea of elio, Elio works great if you have to sit out a year if you transfer if you are playing you know really playing for the name on the front of your jersey, but that's not really where we are with college football anymore. And so even building a culture and maintaining that culture to where you have a relationship
with the kid from. He's 16 17, 18 years old, you get him to commit here, he's all-in, you have that relationship, and then you start sprinkling and Guy, Who last year were playing for somebody else or now it might have a year or two left and really want to show what they can do. They're not so worried about playing for the guys around them as they are for showcasing their own talent.
And so all of that, I think is if you have a culture guy who's going to build a culture, it's a lot harder to do now with transfer portal and N IL, which I happen to love. I think it's great for the kids but for in terms of building a culture, that's an issue. Yeah. You mentioned and IO and I'm with you too. I felt for years that play payers should be getting paid. I'm very happy for it. What?
I'm not a fan of is some some of the media, you know, kind of continuing to say like Indiana's got to provide more for ni L. They've got to put more money, even some from the athletic
department kind of pushing that. So I do think it's a two-sided coin, like yes, Indiana has to be competitive from an ni L perspective to get players, but I also think, you know, it's not just money is going to Solve the problem because if you're look at Michael pennies, he goes from kind of Addis, you know, bad. I you team last year, really bad offensive lines where he covered up. A lot of offensive line issues.
He goes to a team that has kind of an identity has a really good offensive line has a plan around him and he suddenly 10 and 2 and a Heisman candidate. If your pet X is like would you how much is that worth to you? Like do you want to come back to IU and get smacked around and go for and 845 million? Dollars, or would you rather go to Washington? Maybe make the less and I owe money but maybe win a Heisman,
right? You know, maybe get some endorsements that way and I think that's something that isn't factored in here. Is that it's a two-way street but there's a certain amount of money. Like there's no amount of money that's going to get, like, CJ shroud, come to IU for nilu could offer 25 million dollars. It's like you have a stay at Ohio State. Like, I'm just, that's where I'm going to be. And I never think that's fully factored in the get some of
these high-level. Yes for the, you know, the Right Guard. It's Matter of if some of these high level skill position which I you needs, I'm not saying n IL is it's going to help but it's not going to be the Panacea that
I think. Sometimes it's pushed out there because other factors are there, those are factors that you know, alumni can't solve like we got to get a better aligned, we got to get better Coach, we just got to have better results because no amount of money you're going to give is going to get high
level quarterback to giving. This is where I go back to, you know, we spent, you know, three or four games and 2021 being like we got to keep NX a starter because Alan saying, you know, that's our guy, he's a guy in the locker room, I can't do this to a starter but then 12 months later you're just yanking base like in and out of the starting lineup and it's like this is a guy who started an SEC school then maybe not, you know, top
level as but an SEC school and what's his experience going to be like two other people who call Connor but hey, Connor. What was it? Like transferring to IU in the portal? Is he going to give them a five-star Yelp review? Like I don't think so. So it's is like, it is a two-way street there on the ni L, think, well, and, and, but Not a new problem because you know, Indiana has been recruiting for years and you could have high-level guy wants to go to a school.
Not even, even the top of the top Ohio State are, you know, Penn State or wherever but wants to go someplace that has historically been successful. He can go there and sit there for two or three years before he gets a real chance to play and he's going to go to a bowl and he's gonna get everything that goes along with being a whatever school you know football player or you could come to Indiana play right away. Possibly be Be a star help, build something.
It's been tough to convince kids to do that. To not go someplace that has already been historically good. So now you have something to where you can go to some place and get paid some kind of money and get it get more support or you're going to come to Indiana and maybe get a chance to play right away. But the ni L money to me is an important part of it, it from a macro standpoint, but from a
micro Stan You're exactly right. You can't go out and you buy a couple of players you know with n IL money and everything is fixed. That's just not how it works. There's not enough depth there's not enough money to make it all worthwhile. So it is it's a challenge to say the least because especially to be struggling as much as they have over the past two years is arguably the worst time in the past hundred years of college football, to be to be struggling
with this. And also I I cannot I cannot stress this enough. It's not the first time, Indiana has had a problem with money and players and this is the the History part of me coming out here. After WWII the Big Ten had a rule that you could get, you could pay a guy 30, get a guy who had a job for 35, dollars a month to play and you know, all across the Big Ten. That was what they they got. You had guys coming back from
war. They had families, they were coming to school and they Need some money so they allowed them to hold jobs, that would pay $35 a month at Indiana. Beau MacMillan decided that money was only available for married guys. Single guys couldn't do that other schools in the Big Ten, didn't have that rule so guess
what? A bunch of the single guys that were on that 45 team that went undefeated they went elsewhere and they played and played pivotal roles for other teams in the Big Ten and your two later Beau MacMillan bolt in town. Down, and it's been quite the struggle sense. And so, again, it's to me, this whole offseason is about a
vision of the future. There's nothing worse than having 0 Direction, you have to be able to have a plan that you, as a Hempstead, make a plan work, the plan and plan for the unexpected. This is it feels like a program, that's floating as much as anything else and that's what I
want to see this. Offseason is a Spelled out during spring ball of how this is going to get fixed, you have to tell us because you're trying to sell a fan base that desperately wants you to do well and doesn't have a lot of belief in it. No, it's the history of IU football is is great. And the book, it's a book it in once. And for those who are coming in early, it's like, you're right with the Beau MacMillan stuff.
But, you know, there was unfortunate, it's kind of like they missed the boat 40 or 50 years ago because they had a period where they they just didn't invest in football when other schools were and over the last 15-20 years. No doubt Indiana University has up there there, you know, financial support of football but it's like you're just now catching up to being at the bottom of the Big Ten like, for a while. There you were just so far
behind. Everybody else that just now doing what everyone else is doing. Get you back to level, but you've got to now the key you have to atone for like 30 years of not you know, paying bills. And that that's kind. Where they're at. You mentioned going forward. You know I think we all expected a good number of transfers. You're seeing the people go in the transfer port for the first three of three of the first four people who transfer quarterback set.
That's not great. But the one that I think we were all expecting but that hurts was Des on mcculloh. You watched him on defense and it's like that's one of those guys are like my God. That is a talent. Like, that's a really great player teams were running things. Just always the opposite side of the field. Old away from him again, not surprised. But its tongue, you know, any thoughts on just the people who are entering the portal and to your point of again? This is where it's a tough
thing. You've got to sell this vision of the future but it is really tough when you're losing all of these guys that you had this year. And again, teams can do at Michigan state has shown they can they can go 0 to 100 with the portal. It's not that it can't be done. Unfortunately, you know, so far in the Allen tenure, we haven't had great results with it.
Some good hits here and there in the portal, I'm just curious your thought of people who are in the portal and then how that continues to kind of how you spin that into positive notes for IU fans. Well, my view on that is, you know, How much does it hurt to lose your best players from a team that's won six games in two years. I mean, you know, that's that, you know, they've won six games
in two years. So the McCulloch one hurts, but it's not unexpected, it's not, you know, I mean, we know the second that his dad left, you know, it was a thing that, you know, hey was, it was surprising that the kids stuck around what he did and I wish him the absolute best wherever he goes, but he's a real talent and this is the new world of college. Bald guys can go ahead and and be successful and then move on.
Now if you're Indiana, what you want to do is find those best young players who maybe were overlooked and gain some experience in, you know, just some non power 5 conferences and make the move to, to bring them up. But, you know, you know, losing guys to the portal. It's not only just real life in college football now. But again, you have a team that won six games in two years, And so I mean we lost our best player from, you know, you lose
your best player from that. What did you lose because it was, you know, so what he did you would have won four games in the past two years is that men. I mean it doesn't really make a make a huge impact based on where this program is. It's just a program that has a lot of holes in a lot of places
and too. Rebuild it and get it to where it needs to go. I is going to be an incredible challenge for the program that has lost more games than any team in any program in college football history and history doesn't mean it is important to the fans and the media. The players every eighteen-year-old that steps on campus thinks he's going to be changing changing changing.
He doesn't care about it. So you are selling the future on what it's going to be and that's why it to me again the vision of what we're going to be. This is Is how it gets done has to be really, really important, and really, really clear and really, really realistic, too. Because it is, you know, turning football programs around, is a battleship, not a speedboat. It did takes time and so you want to see things that you could build on in cell for the future.
And unfortunately, this past year, there wasn't a lot to where you could say. Hey you know what? Yeah, they're struggling now but in the future that defense looks really good or that Fence looks really good. Or this receiver is to real, playmaker, camper was solid. I'll put it that way and I'm sorry that he got hurt and I look forward to seeing him out there again but I we just didn't see enough of him to say hey that's a game changer that you got to worry about every single time out.
He's a superstar. There are no stars in this IU football program period. And it's I say that, you know, even with before McCulloch would went into the portal. He's a freshman and so there's, there's potential there. Anything you get out of a true freshman is bonus every single time. There is not a single star on this on this, in this football program. And that's a real issue so quick hitter questions. I've always wanted to ask you about doing the postgame.
What are the? What are the comments that you get from fans? It's in the last year or two that you think are like, what do you hear the most? And then you think are the most you agree with the most and you disagree with the most, when you hear from Hands in the post game. Um, that's a good question on the ones that I I'll tell you what, I think is the dumbest on. Ya think that people say is when they say that Indiana has to leave the Big Ten and, you know, they should join the Mac for
football and all that. It's like, you understand that it is football, that drives the bus, it is period, everybody loves their basketball at IU. But if you have one cell out of Memorial Stadium, that is three full. Sellouts at Assembly Hall, every single one. And So, you know, if you have, you're able to sell out that football stadium, even having one of the smallest football stadiums in the Big Ten. If you sell out, that Stadium, 47, home games, eight home games, that's 350,000.
People, you're not getting that 420 basketball games. That's not how it how that works. So, in football is what drives the bus. So that to me is the dumbest thing. The other thing is just the constant drumbeat of it's the coach. That's the problem. It's a they need to fire the coach they need fire die.
I am very, very slow on firing the coach especially for IU football in the reason is is we've been firing coaches every couple of years for the past 100 years and it's not every time you do that, it is such a huge issue and a huge jolt to the system that it takes years to recover from that because you have a new guy comes in, has a whole new way of going about things. A whole new approach has to build it. So it takes time Sometimes it's
necessary. I'm not saying it's not, but it just, you know, it's everybody wants to fire everybody. It's, that's the guy I think that to a certain extent, coaches, get too much credit and they get too much criticism because it's a two-part equation. Players have to execute, you have to be out there doing and
you're learning the game. But you also when you walk onto campus as a big 10 football player, you damn well, better have a pretty good sense of How to play the game to begin with if you're going to to be successful on the the thing that I think that I agree with the most is just the frustrations that people have with this program and how issues year over year over year coach after coach after coach, I've been covering
the team for 18 Seasons now. And I have seen the same things happen over and over and over again. And there have been improvements along the way, the Stadium looks a hell of a lot better now than it did in 2005. The linemen are bigger the, the effort to, to bring in nutritionists and improve the weight room and all of that have all been great but the results aren't there.
And you can't put up a giant flag pole and say hey we really help the football program to me. It really is just being you. I agree that they you need to be realistic about what the issues are. And I don't think Indiana has always from a departmental standpoint been realistic or approach things in the best way in terms of how can we fix
football. And that's, you know, there has to be a top-to-bottom change in attitude when it comes to to Indiana flip on. And by top to bottom, I mean, president athletic, director, coaches players, fan base, all of it, it has to be, it has to be a priority in a way that it is one of the priorities. Authorities instead of the priority that I think it deserves to be. Yeah, if somebody wants to get on the post game show with a call. What's the best way to do that?
I did besides going in that's all that's the only way. I mean like is there a better question to get on? Like is there a way to we don't we don't bring the questions before and we have never had a show especially after a loss in which we've just had the phones lines have been packed Non-Stop. And all the way to the end. We're usually filling a segment at the end without callers because, you know, and the other way they could do it is, you know, tweet at me and I'll ask
the question on there. They have to be listening, but they call look, there's a reason why basically the same two or three guys are the first callers every week. They don't get preferential treatment. It's they pick up the phone and call and it is. It's really that simple. Okay, good to know what. There you go. I'm trying to get you collars for the show. So where do we? We go from here. But like what do you see the Outlook, you know, for how, I don't know how to ask, I can't
even know how to turn around. Like, what do you see the Outlook moving forward? Because it's, it is tough. I mean, you know, you have the most losses in college football for all the reasons we said, it's kind of a dire situation that said you're going to bring back. Basically the same coaching staff, you're going to bring back some new players. You're still going to play in the Big 10 East. That's also one of my other
favorite tropes. It drives me wild seems like it's just not fair like you know has just said well that's who we play. Throat. Like we play that we are in that division, like we gotta win those games but II agree with you on that. Here's the challenge. Therefore, I you football and it had it played out this year. So you had Indiana lost a couple
of very close games. You know, right before the by you get to the by, you come back from that you have to pay play Penn State and Ohio State and you're already struggling mentally, because you've lost some, some, some tight games and then you come back and you get Buy two of the better teams in the country. And after you lose that to Ohio State, you're out of Bowl, contention? Yeah, to me every year, historically, Michigan Penn State, Ohio State or losses before the season starts
historically? Yeah, you're going to on occasion. They pulled off an upset, but you have to go. Because you're going, you have nine games after that, you have, you can do no worse than 6 and 3. In the other night games, you have to win two thirds of your game, just to get Bowl eligible, just the to have the bare minimum of what's considered a success and on a football season, that's a real challenge. Now, like you said, that's reality, that's life.
That's what you're dealing with. So there's not going to be any changing bad. Yeah. They realign their might, you know, USC and UCLA. Maybe you don't have to deal with those three teams, but you might have to deal with USC or UCLA and you are historically a program that has really struggled.
So there's the reality, there's something to it, you know from a mental standpoint of you know, taking you know, three games, where convincing guys, they're going to go out there and beat Michigan and Penn State. And Ohio State is a real Challenge and and it's a of mental hurdle to get over. /, but it's reality like you said that's life.
So you know there there is something to it but it's also something that's not going away so you better damn well get used to it. Yeah it's you said you've covered all you for 18 years when kind of wrap on this I love the rap on a positive note but it's hard it's hard Without You
football. The the frustrating thing watching IU football as we both have for you know a lot of time is you know, coaches change, athletic, directors, change, presidents chain so you can't even pin it on any of these. But it's like everything else stays the same with IU football and then you see other programs are able to break through and
have blips. Like Illinois doesn't have an inherently better recruiting base than we do, but yet this year, they were, you know, eight and four or whatever they were being in 2002. I think they made, you know, the Sugar Bowl, you know, we just see /. Do you know, they beat Ohio State a couple of years ago there in the Big Ten West Championship? I know it's the west but that's fine. Like Northwestern has their spikes, you know, Marilyn has
seized relate with a pop off. You know, Michigan State made it to the playoff one year in our division and none of those schools. I think have inherently, you know, maybe slightly better stadiums is not like they have, you know, it's not I'm not talking about Ohio State Penn State or Michigan here, even Wisconsin. Like right every other school and something Galen brought up in one of his last pods, that was really, he has a spreadsheet called IU football history, just sucks or something.
But it's like you look over the last 20 years teams that have beaten, Ohio, State, and everyone's done it. Yeah, except for us. Yes, and your team. Be Michigan. It's like, you know, Maryland's beat him, two or three times, you know, pain produce got him a couple times. I don't play him every time and it's that's the part that gets frustrating. It's like the Ice Age, just comes in and out. Like, everything, changes, everything happens. But like we still can't beat Ohio State.
And that's, that's the frustrating part. And to me it's like that's the mentality change that has to happen. Is, you are 100%, right? And I agree with a look at the schedule every year. It's like loss loss loss to Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State. And we move on to a rest of our schedule. We've got to change that. We've got to change that. Like beating Ohio State. While not easy, and not something. We're going to do every year
cannot be this. Once every 50 year Herculean task that happens, you know, other teams can do it. It can be done by programs all across the Spectrum and there's almost like a, I don't know, there's a mentality that sense in, with fans when everything changes and, you know, to your point, they may have a coach, you will get new coaches.
Like we've had nine 10 coaches in the 40 years, nobody's beating Ohio State. So it's not like they could, but it's like this is where, I don't know what the answer is and it gets frustrating. When I see every other program kind of pop off and to be like, Pruitt, Illinois, the perfect examples because they don't inherently have anything different than Indiana has. Like they're produced fighting the exact same territory. They've had were Seasons than we have, they probably have a worse.
If not similar stadium to us. There's nothing that that makes us different except for the fact, they're able to pop off. So not really. A question, they're just more of a comment and I'll let you react to that and then we'll try and find a positive way to end this. Consider that there is no, I you coach, who's left for a different job since Sam wyche.
Yeah, nobody Indiana hasn't put it together and then taken away there and I and that's and that's I'm so happy you meant that something that I've talked about, like, when Kevin Wilson a little bit of success. People are like, oh my God, what if we lose them? And I do think that happened with Allen a little bit as well, I stand by the extension, they gave him. It was the right thing to do at
the right. I'm not saying that was wrong by people got this, like, oh my God, what if we lose in Alabama? Or, you know, one of those will all burn. It's like that's good. Like that means we're doing the right thing. Like we are not a program where this is a destination job yet. Like in the fact that we had assistance leave for head coaching jobs, that's great.
But these are all things that need to happen and honestly we need to have a coach hired by somebody else to move up the pecking order because that is a sign that our program is moving forward. So I've always been on that corner that Like we should let it go. My only thing with the Allen contract, I will say that they might have made a mistake. Is you had to give that buyout? You had to give that guaranteed money.
Everything you did was right. I like the contract the time I stand by it, but there is a part with IU, where it does feel like at times. They want to play with the big boys but then they don't when it comes time to pay the piper. And what I mean by that is if Mel Tucker has another really bad season or he goes to and 10. I guarantee you that They're going to be really close to buying him out, even though it's
going to be a gargantuan number. This happens at Notre Dame, like screw it, we'll just pay off Weiss and you know, 15, 20 years. There does come a point with IU where it's like if you're going to sign the big boy guaranteed contract like the big boys and pay a coach in the top 30 in the country. The flip side is if things don't work, you got to buy them out and like, yes, it sucks like where you going to find 30 million dollars. I don't know, but that's what the big boys do.
And that's always the struggle I had with Indiana's like they have one foot in the deep water but they have one foot in the shallow water and it's always when it comes time and I'm not saying they should buy. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, but it's like the fact that it's like, we know it's not going to happen. I think that's a problem. Well, that, you know, with Alan, you mentioned the coordinators?
I will not accept the idea that Tom Allen doesn't know what he's doing as a coach or doesn't know what he's doing when it raises hires, because he has hired well, in the past guys have hit and it can't be over. He just got lucky. No, it's not. That simple. It's not that simple. Kalin tube or was a guy At that he got that was tremendously successful cane Womack. So tremendously successful have moved on. I did they did their Replacements enjoy the same
success? Maybe not but it it wasn't a matter of him. Getting lucky just like he wasn't getting lucky and in turning that defense around his first year as defensive coordinator, he knows what he's doing in terms of some of that stuff. It doesn't always work. What you're what you're selling guys. Don't always buy and So that to me is a challenge with that, you talked about mentality as well. And I am a big believer that that Penn State went over Indiana's, win over Penn State in 2020.
Doesn't happen. If fans are in the building, what I mean by that is people forget that they remember, Pennock stretching and maybe or maybe not hitting, that pylon official said he hit it, so it counts. The, the, the, the Takeaway on that is Indiana was Down, Andy Indiana, had to had given up on the lead. If fans are there the vibe in the building changes because it is, here we go again. We've seen this before, here we go and everybody tenses up but fans weren't there and I'm not,
don't get me wrong. I am not blaming fans. I am blaming humans for how they react in that that situation and so when things start to go poorly, The energy in the building can be a very much. So here we go again, we saw it with the defense over and over again. Where Indiana would get a couple of stops but then the offense would come out and do three and out a quick three and out at that, I'm that's a whole nother other thing there.
But quick, three and out. You could see the defense go out there and kind of hang their head. Like, here we go again. We've seen this at this before the psychology, the mentality of all of it. How do you learn to win? If you don't win, it's tough. Tough. It's really really difficult and so you know, it's how do you fix it? That's the the 100 million dollar question, isn't it?
Now, how do you fix it? And the, the I don't know the answer to it. But what I'm also concerned about is, nobody knows the answer to it because we've seen it done so many different ways. And I mean, look at the blueprint has always been kind of Wisconsin and Kansas State in redshirting guys and and building from the top, those days are over baby there, it's over. It is, you know, an important changes everything with that. So you can't just No money at it.
It's not as simple as that, you know. It's, you can't just get a better weight room and they were, you know, throw a bunch of money at the coaches because the same people that are saying Indiana's being cheap when it comes to their assistants are going to be there on a Saturday afternoon screaming. I can't believe this guy is getting paid three million dollars for that. What a waste of money. What's Indiana doing?
So I mean it's, you have to perform and The biggest problem is that Indiana is spinning, its Wheels. It is stuck in the mud right now in terms of momentum, because there's not a lot to build off of over the past couple of years. And that's why, again, the step one for this coaching staff is to spell out how they what their vision is, and it can't be platitudes. It can't be. It has to be specific. Hey, this is what we're going to do. It's not. We're going to be gritty.
We're going to be tough. We're going to be. Nope, don't I don't want to hear that. It is, we're building. Hang around a dual threat quarterback. We are, you know, to this is our vision. It has to be really specific because you're not just selling recruits. You are selling fans. You are selling people to get out to the stadium and I think that that has to start in Spring ball so I'll leave you on this. New kind of just answered it but you know what do you want to see this offseason?
That'll make you more positive about next season and so for me I will say I would like to see Alan take a step away. From being defensive coordinator and just be the head coach. I think as it's honestly nothing it didn't work well this year but I mean to me defensive coordinator is a job. Head coach is a job and one person trying to do both. I think that's very tough. And the head coach in Indiana is Tough Enough. You don't need to have another
full-time job on the docket. So to me, I would love to see that be something that takes place where Alan at least sees this as like. All right, I've got to hand this over. Like I just got to Trust that they can do. So for me, that's my answer, I'm just curious. What would you see this Austin's would say, all right, I'm getting more excited about next year. It just has to, like I said it's
a vision. It is a you spell out what we're going to do to fix this, you know this this is our plan. It's a you have to have some kind of some kind of plan but I wanted spelled out of what it is, we're going to be a team that is going to, you know, have a dual threat guy and we're going to have multiple guys that could could run the same offense. You Have just you know have completely different offenses depending on who the quarterback is with the defensive coordinator stuff.
I totally get it. He was it happens all the time where a defensive coordinator offensive Corner did they get lifted head coach and they try to do both and they can't do it because it's just it's they're completely different jobs.
I even understood him taking over the defense again because running the defense has what got him to where he was and he wanted to trust somebody who was doing it to do it the way he He wanted to so I even understand that but I do understand your point, those are different jobs, that's why, you know, your teams, have it because it has to be a manager job.
And you know it's there has been a disconnect but that defense the past couple of years that is disturbing because again, you need an identity and your head coaches identity was defense,
you need to rebuild that. You have to have to say, we're going to be. These are the steps we're not like a five-point plan or anything, but you Have a Clear Vision in a spelled out Vision because where we're at right now you know you could have guys get to talk about buyouts and all that you got to set yourself a goal for it and say this is how we're going to do it. And you these are my benchmarks and it isn't winning wins or losses but a benchmarks.
And you know, if we don't hit them then you're right. Somebody else should be the head coach here. But this is the plan going forward. This is how we're going to fix it, and watch us make it happen. Yep. Well Ken, I appreciate you coming. A on man. It's been fun. We got to do this once a year at
the end of the season. I'm have recap and definitely check out can on the postgame call-in show next football season maybe you and Joe Smith. Again not sure who your host your co-host is going to be but I always just hope they bring me back. Yeah I mean you gotta get to 20 years if you follow me on Twitter at K by cough b ik o FF Ken, always a pleasure, appreciate you coming on. And until next time for everybody I thank you all for listening. This is Scott for Crimson cast. Signing off.