You're listening to the back home network, presented by home field apparel. Hey there, welcome back to Crimson Cass. Scott here with you. Super excited for this podcast. Today we have Dan from punt, John punt. It's one of my favorite places to go in the, I use fear to get, kind of a unique perspective on IU football, but we have Danna on. We talk about what went wrong last season, which there's a lot of options, what is going to go right this year?
What may not go right this year? What we can look at ahead this year and they get into a really interesting discussion with Dan about, you know, why he started pun, John pump kind of He did it. What goes into putting out a site like that? On a week-by-week basis and a
season by season basis. And I know he posted this on his side, but we talked about, you know, why he decided to step away, which is, you know, I found interesting because I know we've had similar points in time at Crimson Castro. We've had, you know, the same feeling where it's just. It's a, it's a lot to put out and kind of the interest, you know, for us, as kind of dipped in Wayne two times, we talk
about that. And so it was a little bit of inside baseball, kind of Behind the curtain discussion. But if you have any interest in you know what what not what it takes but you know what it does take, you know, to put to put out a podcast or to put out a Blog and kind of focus on you know Indiana Athletics for a while. I think it's a really interesting discussion. I really was happy to have Dan share it.
I've always really appreciated his opinions got a unique view of IU football and I thought it was a great discussion so excited to share that with you. But before we get there, want to always talk about our sponsors and friends over at home. Field apparel super happy to have them as sponsors of the home network and also Crimson cast and they got some great
stuff. You know, a couple weeks ago, you saw that they had Penn State Come out on their site and that, you know, I think blew away all expectations. I haven't talked to Connor since they released the last two weeks ago. They released Ohio State which, but I'm sure Ohio State blew the doors off because they have a pretty interesting and rabid fan base, I should say. And I'm sure they'd like to get onto home field apparel. You might think well that's about it, you know, you can't
really top that for the season. Oh, no. Go to their Facebook page, and you will see that next Saturday. They're coming out with a whole new collection for the indeed. Was cold, and I'm looking at it now, they have a great blue hoodie with the, the, the Bucking Colt logo, cool Indiana's Indianapolis script. I mean, it's tough for, it's
just like, all right. Well, you know, gotta tell the kids Christmas gifts are going to be a little bit like this year because Daddy's gotta buy a couple more hoodies because I will definitely be rocking the blue Indianapolis Colts hoodie this fall. So, check that out. If it's the first time you've purchased from home field apparel first off, like, you know, welcome to the party.
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It's like, all right. Well, you suck me back in every time I try to get away, you pull me back in, so check them out. Always appreciate everything. The folks over at home field, apparel provide to the home network, and a crimson cast with that. We'll get to our discussion with Dan from punt, John punt. Want to thank you all out there for listening will provide a lot of great content. This fall looking forward to football season, even more looking forward to basketball season for reasons.
I think you all know, but definitely excited to get another year under the belt with Crimson cast, and with you guys out there. So thank you all for the support for listening for the tweets, the questions and everything. So that further Ado here is Dan from punch on Punk. It's a Pleasure to have day and on from Punjab hunt.
One of for me, one of the OG football IU football sites out there been doing it. A long time, always has a very unique view, an interesting View, and a place that I really enjoy going after games and getting information, but Dan, glad to have you on the show, man. Thanks Scott. Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, we're you know, we were happy to provide a small service to us. Again, the small sliver of IU fans that want to look at things.
A little a little differently and get Beyond kind of the basic box store and game story type thing that you find at other sites. It is very valuable but it's not may be telling all in providing all the context that we as football nuts like to have yeah it is without you football. It's always like I feel like this is like IU football as an example of like what a program like this is the bear level interest, a program can help no matter what our program does.
Like you're always going to have to Laughs three websites like 30,000 fans like no matter what they do. There's always like, 32,000 people Memorial Stadium. It's like, this is like any college football program at the big time level is just like, this is the minimum level you could have because it feels like we've never dip below that. Right? This is the base load college football. Yeah, exactly.
Like there's just yeah, that's, that's the right way to put it and I think I would say that right now, we're not we can get lower but we'll get into it as a season goes on but I think think we're, we have a chance to do. Even further as the season rolls on this year but I don't want to give away too much, you know, the first few minutes of the podcast of my, my take over all. Yeah. So you don't think I'm going to
be awesome. Well that that leads into last year, you know, I just have to kind of make questions and I'll talk to you at the site a little bit at punch on punt. But the first question is, you know, from your perspective like what the hell happened last year? Like that was a wild year, you know, going into it. There was high expectations. But what what do you think happened? Besides just not a lot of wins.
Yeah, I've tried to put most of it out of my mind because it was if you think back a year ago we were to attend. It's forgot to attend. No one's in the Big Ten. Just yeah. So if you look all the way back to this time last year like you know I was and I think Billy who runs a slight with me was in a similar spot.
We were both trying to kind of Tamp down expectations a little bit while still being, you know, as excited as Been going into a year there were those, you know, I never thought we were quite worthy of our ranking going into the Iowa game where we were. I forget where Warlow team. I think something like that, but I thought we would be comfortably. 7 + 5, 8 & 4. I think I may have to somebody early in August said, like, I think 84 is like a floor now, that was probably a little too
aggressive. Yep. And so, in terms of what went wrong, I think kind of The answer is kind of everything. I think obviously injuries played a part I think, Headaches, never really took the next step in his development and that's a combination of things are at fault. At that offensive line was a disaster. And it's I think if I really had to boil it down my and I also said, the schedule was hard, and it was harder than we thought it was going to be in a bunch of
teams. We thought were going to be great, turned out to be much better than we anticipated in Michigan, State's and then it kind of jumps out most of all to me on that, but they're probably others to Penn State was better
than we thought. You know, whatever, but if I boil it down I think it's Tom Allen is a can be a really effective coach when he has to really good coordinators with him and last year, I don't think he had any good coordinators with them and then least of all on offense and to a lesser
extent on defense. And so, I think when you take all the injuries and then put in there that basically the coaching staff, Was well beneath Big Ten average you have situation where things can get away from you. Sure enough they did. Yeah, I it's not an excuse. I mean, I just did a pod with gaalan. We're I'm pretty critical of last year. I was pretty critical last year throughout the year but you also
have to be taking a step back. You have to look at like everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. You know, I still think you can't, excuse the fact that the coaching staff went into the season with the expectations and also had seen penix play and just felt comfortable, like art with. This is our starter because I was at Iowa, like I'm still a little bit annoyed drove all the way there, but I was there. Three plays.
I'm like I could tell he's not like this is not, he's not at a level, he needs to be and it sucks like the kids coming back from injury, but if you're the coaching staff to then, you know, I'm still annoyed. Like middle end of the year to kind of be like, well, we never expect, like you had to know
this was happening. You you had to see that in Fall Ball but on the flip side like you know if I don't want to put, you know, McFadden's targeting as like well then we just automatically win the Cincinnati game, but if you just if you do flip that, you mention the mission. In State game and that was a five-point game. You know, if you get a little bit of forward momentum maybe the team doesn't completely collapse. Maybe you go. You know for Nate's, not
awesome. But if you you'd beaten a Cincinnati beaten, a Michigan State, you feel like you're not falling to the depths of the Big Ten again maybe you're able to pull out the Maryland game and you know now you're like five and seven. It's all right. Well, that sucked but at least we got some big ten wins like this. It was a everything went wrong here. The thing that I'll say is you mentioned Alan and the Peace out. I don't want to keep poking out, but he is the coach.
Like I do think something happened. There was a magical moment after that. Wisconsin game in 2020, we beat Wisconsin. All the players were running by, you know, this is the best coach in the country. Come play for this guy, it's all Elio. Stuff. And then, you know, we kind of get job that in the Big Ten tournament we get jobs out of a New Year's Day six bowl.
And then it's like Alan went from being a coach coaching from a place of Love to being a coach coaching, from a place of anger and being slighted and we take the Big Ten logo off our Jersey. And honestly, nothing good has happened since then, and the team last year did not look like the team that was together the year before. And I do, I've wondered this for a while that, you know, when he made that switch to be like
we're pissed. We're taking the, you know, we're chip on her shoulder like, that was not the way that team played. That's not the way he coaches successfully, and I'm curious to see if that comes back, but I am curious. It's on that. Like I do think that Alan kind of go to the dark side even for like two or three months was just a really, it was not the way that he coaches and his successful. Yeah, I think that's a pretty fair fear.
Yeah, I mean, I think I think something happened there and it clearly didn't whatever he was trying to pull off going into the Ole Miss game for to didn't work for a motivational standpoint. I would go. I mean to me? Yeah, to me there are kind of two points at sorry. My dog is going crazy to better. He decides he wants to weigh in. On Tom Allen is no, no, this is a, this is a crimson cap. Staple a Gail's. Got dogs. I've got a dog. They all they all Bell Go. I mean, to cut you off.
It is funny. And I always remember this, too, like, I'm not going against my point, but it's like we all think, like, oh, we got smoked in the gate and the Outback Bowl. It's like we lost by six like not too. It's like it was a closer game than please. Go ahead. A don't have to lead later release. Foreclosed if I can recall correctly, came back. Anyways and tunnel didn't play well but whatever. So, but I think, yeah, they're kind of I think to what I would
consider possible high points. The Allen are and I think the obvious choices that Wisconsin game because like where we were ranked or what that set up for us, I personally go back further to the Purdue ending in 2019 we won that game. Took us to eight and four set up a good bowl bowl. You know, situation was Alan's first win over for you and I think that at that point to me it was all sort of downhill from there because K Lambda bar was hired shortly thereafter.
And then I honestly think 20 T was sort of smoking mirrors, like absolutely should have lost to Penn State, about a million different ways and they didn't, which is awesome. I'm glad they didn't, it was denied to a bunch more, but if that goes the other way, who knows how things go for the
season? Michigan state was in complete disarray throttled them a number of other good teams had lost more to opt outs than I. You dance, while he was in a unique position to take advantage and they did and then they got to go play at places like Wisconsin with no fans and you know, our Home field or lack thereof, doesn't factor in and everyone else's home field advantage which is real is gone.
So I think that I took advantage of all that were, I think otherwise they weren't necessarily quite as good as they presented themselves to be. And then all of that came home to roost in 2021 where I agree with you. That I don't think we're necessarily talent-wise to intent team but we also weren't good weren't Bowl to you, you know, I think, you know, with pain explain away his playing and everything else. So it's I think yeah.
It could have easily could have gotten to 45 wins but I don't know. It's hard to get 26 based on the way they logged. Yeah. And and this is where, you know, I will then again I'm just going to keep doing circles on this but it's kind of where I am without you football. Like there's really yin and yang here but you like I did you know everything went wrong last year. I'll give him that excuse. But on the flip side, what is
jarring about it? When he take a step back is as you well know you've been an IU football fan for years. As have I we've had some Absolutely garbage teams, garbage, coaches, Bad seasons, very few coaches it.
I you'll, or have gone over in the Big Ten for a season, like a 2 and 10. It's like, that's where I have to take a step back and it's like, alright, a lot of shit went wrong, but a lot of stuff went wrong, you know, under Cam Cameron, he had a lot of bad luck and he always seemed to win a big 10 game. You know, Bill Lynch was not awesome but he was always able to win a big 10 game. You know, it puts that season is like just an outlier amongst a
ton of Bad seasons. Like we've seen so many for date and three and seven years and, you know, one or two wins, the Big Ten, but every coach has always been able to pick up a winner too. And that's the part where I step back and it's like just to let it get off the rails that bad, you know, to have that, you know, lost to Rutgers, you know, 38, 23 and just not win a big 10 game.
It's like, it puts you in Pretty Elite category win again, there's guys that Cameron who like that was not a great four years and a lot of things like he had a lot of bad luck and a lot of things didn't work, right? He had tough teams to play but he found a way without a lot of talent and he had Randall L, but not all else else to win games. It's just like, that's the part where I step back and it's like this was that was really a monumentally bad season.
Yeah I mean I would I would argue that at least an ounce favor that Cam Cameron and Lynch. Also neither one of them really had to play in the Big 10 East Cam Cameron certainly and Bill and Ted Like The Legends and leaders. I think he was dealing with mostly but didn't get to the East. So, fair point, I think if you put them in the East and then
you put them against on the car. Lot, with Iowa's, one of the Crossovers, like, things start to look a little different and like so I think and I think honestly, the Rutgers game by that point in the season he had Alan had lost the team and I kind of get it. They couldn't find an answer
quarterback. Yeah, there was no one's when I was walking through that door to play offensive line, almost all the most of the talent at Now you secondary had been was heard at that point and it was just kind of, you know, it's embarrassing and she never happened. But like the team was gone. They team has done like they wanted to season to be over and I did too, I get it. No he didn't. I did too.
So here's you know as we look at this year, just from a high level, you know, this is It's the exact same Preamble I had with gaalan yesterday as we did the Pod kind of thinking about this year. You know, there's really a dichotomy between these two, these two, Seasons is that last year, was monumentally bad and I didn't win the Big Ten game.
They they lost it. You know like I said we were going into 2020 you know we had Nick Sheridan as a new coordinator and that was like a thing where like all right well there's this is a big question mark. Like you know, how are we gonna do with a new offensive coordinator? And I was a question mark. We were worried about, you know, the year that, you know, we went from, you know, Ramsey to penix like, all right. Well, you know, we haven't seen his penis and he held it gets a
question mark at quarterback. Do we have to Nuke? Coordinators a new running backs coach we have no you know quarterback is a question mark, we have no returning running backs basically no returning wide receivers I know you. I always think of you. It's like the only coordinator we kept was our o-line coach. That may be the most ineffective coordinator we have you on defense again eyesight. That Cincinnati game that you know, it was Mike McFadden.
Once he was out, it's like, well then we had to loosen said, yeah, well, he's not here. You know, there's question marks or any one of those question marks? If it was just that one, We be going to the season thinking, like well without a quarterback. I know. No way we can more than four. So there's that side of the coin, the flip side. And again, this is exactly what I said in the last pods to apologize to listeners. But it's it's a weird spot where in the other side of the coin is
something that is a costume. It's talked about that, you know, 2020 is not the Mirage and that, you know, the five six years preceding. That Indiana was finishing the season either with a chance to make a bowl, or making a bowl and they've, you know, been making bowls proceeding that, A year. So you know, when you look at the totality of Alan's career, 2021 is the outlier and it kind of puts you on the spot. Like what this is, where I'm
interested in the season. But I'm curious your thoughts like to me, it's like what what is where are we going? Because on one hand he's like well that was last year's the outlier we're kind of going to be back to you know five or six win normal and hitting the shot at a bowl or is it that we're just you know because and finally I'll say you know historically what Indiana goes to and 10.
It's like the death. Rattle before we have a three-year just rebuild from hell and all indicators point to this year, being really bad. So I'm just, I'm curious if you see it going which way, you see it going. Yeah. I mean, I my, I'll start with your last point, which is what I think is, I think the overarching theme Here is that when coach value football, coach loses momentum, it is so hard to get it back at a place like IU and and Tom Allen has Unequivocally, lost moment.
You see us dead in the water right now and that's just the reality. And I will say that it is easier potentially to get some of that back in the transfer era, but it's still not easy and it's not easy with the schedule that he faces this year. And so I think you can make a case that the talent that's on this team could win five to six games, but so much has to go, right? For that to happen. And I don't think you can count on that. So, in my mind, we're in a three
to four wins scenario. Now, I'll also say that it is very easy and you'll see a nationally. I mean, if hurts heard elsewhere, I everyone that I heard or talk to you think's under IU. 4.5 wins is like a sure thing, bad. And I again tend to agree but it's these things like you said, tend to level out maybe some
luck injury luck. goes, I use way but to me the whole thing a lot of it boils down to is Walt Bell and effective offensive coordinator and is he a real upgrade over Nick sharing that is Totally up in the air, his resume in some ways points. Yes, almost everyone's resumes better than Nick Sheridan's when he started, it's not his fault. He just was hired. He was not qualified for the job. He was hired to do and that's time. I'll tell me. Alan's fault 100% but, you know,
his ball. Bella's resumes somewhat good. Some bad. Everyone says is really smart. Will see if he's good and he has a good quarterback then maybe they can they have? The, I think it's to me, it's fairly clear. Do they have the skill position Talent outside of quarterback to have a decent? Big Ten, average ish offense, but if if we are still in a debate, As to whether basil lack is. Better than Jack Tuttle, then I you doesn't have a big 10
average or better quarterback. Yeah. Now if that's just Tom Allen, not wanting to give away details and I cannot for the life of me, wrap my head around. What is the advantage? Pettit Advantage. Illinois would get from Jack. Tuttle versus Connor basil at quarterback. I can't figure out what they're going to learn in one case and not the other. But anyways, were apparently were hiding that information. But if we if it really is A close we've seen.
We've seen from Total. There isn't a good quarterback on the roster and whatever wall Bell does, it's going to be trying to get to average at best. And if that's the case, if we have an average offense at best in the Big Ten, even if the defense takes a step back forward back to where it was before last year, we're looking at it above average defense in the Big Ten, and it probably below average offense, and we're be fighting to win five games. And I, and that's again, that is with base.
On an offensive line that's going to be well below average. It's just the reality of it. They're not going to be better that we have. It offensive line coach. Who was woefully woefully under qualified underperformed. And the only reason he has his job, the only reason it's not recruiting, is not development, it's not playing the field by his spice players. It is that he's friends with Tom Allen and that is 100% fact. No other program in the country.
Would keep this man. A lot around after giving what we've seen and we have that. So again a top of all that I just don't see how all that comes together and adds up to six or more wins. Which is what you have to have it to be a success. It cannot be fine. It can't be 5, because 5 doesn't get your momentum back. It looks a little better than two but it five wins. Does not get this program back on the path that needs to be on.
It's an improvement I guess. But it's right back where we were in 2017 2018 and it's just that good enough. Now time Ellen won't go anywhere, it was a result of that but we're going to if we're likely to stay in purgatory where we're just kind of in this 225 win realm. That's just again, that's just where I kind of land. And now, but I happy to be wrong as so couple things there. I'm going to remind me to come back to the momentum thing.
But you mentioned the kind of that the, you know, us hiding the secret of who our quarterback is to thoughts of that. First, I sit with my friends, Jeff and Carol at the game and free, we've been sitting together since the 2009. So we've seen a lot of else and we've often joked that are our best defensive play that we call is as bad radio. But we just is this. Just like it's the only guy with his hey I Shrugged shrugging Emoji. See that multiple.
Times will see like the defensive coordinator caught the player, you'll send a safety out to call the play and like a safety or D back a look back at the sidelines and be like what? And it's like the play calls and we've often joked that. Like even if we knew what the other team was running, I'm not sure we'd be able to like, coordinate correctly to know that get to play in the right spot. It's like I wonder even if we just you know let Illinois know who our quarterback was to your point.
It doesn't really matter. I will say I was listening to a podcast about fantasy football, totally NFL related but they were Talking about the Broncos with Russell Wilson there and I forget the other quarterback they've had quarterback battles that you know in Denver since Peyton Manning left but, you know, now that Russell Wilson There, the point was like now that was starting quarterback, who knows what he's doing, but he's like talking to the receivers, like, oh no.
What I want you to cut around short, like not on the 30, like an inch before the 30 and then cut back to yard. Like he's really giving detailed directions but the receivers were saying like it's so nice because we have a quarterback
who knows what I was saying. Like would know that but it's like if base lack is in a quarterback competition he can't kind of lead the team and tell receivers what to do if that's what he wants to do and maybe maybe he is a starter and he knows that the team knows it like so we don't know. But again it's like I do think this is I mean this with all love as a, you know, 20 you know gosh 18-year season ticket
holder. It's like other teams get to play Coy and begin to place in. Michigan can do that stuff because they're good. Like we just need to play football and focus on us. Like we're not good enough to have a fake quarterback battle. If there's not one and high plays like let's just know our plays and run them anyway. Yeah. And I think it would it really does to me. And yeah, it's hard to know because it's not entirely possible the whole team knows who the starter is, we just don't?
But if we assume that, that what I am is telling us is true and I just happened to look at listen to a little bit of his press conference. That came up from earlier today. I think it was where he said, no, we really don't know. We're still deciding if that's the case, it just makes it. Hard to have a true leader on the offense because yeah, you
know, and so it's yeah. So to your point she's like I just if it's not basil a candidate and that that to me is a bad sign on a slew of bad science heading into the season. Momentum. I will just say this.
I mean, my it's funny. One of my least favorite topics is like, you know, I you fan reaction to IU football but yet I seem to always talk about it and I'm like well I guess I'm always interested in it. I just hate the idea that it's like you know fans got to bring in fans got to show up and like fans got a support. But you do mention momentum because this is where it's going to be a tough year for IU football, in the fans in that, I'm very curious, a very
curious. What the fan is with a stands are going to look like again. Illinois, but I would assume, you know, okay, you know, not great, not bad. But as I look at the schedule, like this is a year where the team is going to make, have to make their own momentum, because if they beat Illinois, I just knowing I, you fans like most people. That's all right. Well, yeah. But like, we got to win but like, Illinois sucks. I guess not a good name.
And then if we beat Idaho, we beat Western Kentucky, even at home. It's like, all right, y'all, I'm like, those teams are like, I've never heard of those teams, even if we beat Cincinnati, We beat Cincinnati Nebraska mean, we're like, you know, we're 5 and 0, then things change, but if we're like, you know, 2 & 3, 3 & 2, we come home against Michigan for homecoming. We probably get slaughtered and then it's like everybody's like. All right. Well, that's why I like that's how you.
If you beat all the bad teams can't beat the good teams. Nobody shows up for Maryland. And then it's like before, you know, it the seasons half in the bag and then it's like we have Penn State and Purdue. It's like those are important games but the fans will be checked out. And so it's like this is where again you know, I don't want to hear the team or Tom Allen crying about Fan support.
It's like you've got to just focus on you and just knowing, I you football, knowing the fans knowing the schedule unless you just go 60 and beat Michigan, which is going to happen, you're not going to have the fan support that you think you need or want or like, it's not going to be an intimidating spot in
Memorial Stadium this year. So just don't even look for that or expect that I will have no patience at all for any comment by Alan players at all about about fan support because they squander that last year and they have no one to blame. Blame, but themselves and and you layer on top of that. A highly anticipated basketball season such that. Yeah, that's all the people are going to be even if things are going. Well, people might be inclined to check out or at least shift their focus.
So it's to me, I think, I think if they win the first three games, which I think is a big if it's specially with the Illinois, if they win the first two games, with a little bit of style, they'll have some, some fans like some increase in fan support. And then if they can win, one of the two Road games of Cincinnati in Nebraska, and you come back at Foreign one, then maybe we're onto something. I think you can survive a, you know, a loss to Michigan.
That isn't like a true dud but like, I, like you. I think more than likely come mid-october, you know, you and I will be watching the games and not too many more other people more likely than any better hope. We're really good. Weather like if it's cold and rainy like, oh yeah, no thanks. Yeah, I'm checking out, you
know. And that's the thing that, you know, as a fan as I'm getting older too, like, I get so tired of be like you just have to like by the time I still might I'm still going, but I get tired of like you have to have support. Like it's all this like you know, straw man arguments against the fans but last year it just it burned so much Goodwill and again, you know, as if you're not part of the IU football sphere, it's like you could be from the outside like well who cares? You guys?
Yeah. You suck for a lot of years ago who cares? You suck last year it's like well the difference is that totally different. We were getting better. And then we were kind of told this, you know, we're kind of like right, we're not. Not the dress, but not the bottom of the big candy, more like we were moving up, and it's not even that we didn't make a bowl. It's that, you know, and I've lived through these bad years before.
But it's like, I was kind of ready for them, like, the first year of Kevin Wilson or like, you know, the Mallory are started tailing off. I wasn't expecting his last year but like, all right, you know, it's like God, we got it, we got to reset. It's the one-two combination of actually having, you know, expectations and then being completely something, you know that Ben Chapel his senior year.
I expect us to beat Michigan. We didn't but we're still four in a row and I think we played, you know, still have like five or six wins that year you know and played. All right. And we've had two years words like we're not great, we still have four Four Winds like the two and ten just getting boat race to the team giving up.
No wins. The Big 10 like after talk of winning the Big Ten and me driving the Iowa, think of we're going to win it. Can it because like, it's that that's a really tough one to punch for a fan base. That's like a kid into like, you know, somebody in the an abusive relationship. A ship works. Like I've already been through enough nationally. Nobody really most folks don't recognize it because it renders
expect. So, yeah, in the end of it, Indiana does but within the fan base, then, you know, those of us who are dedicated to it last year, was the most painful year to be United football fan. And I don't think to me since I've been paying attention, second is even close. Like it was by far the most disappointing and painful season
to watch. And it, you know, teaches us all like expectations because we just can't have them like Just not, you're not allowed, we're not entitled to them, and those are not for us. Well, it brings something Galen, is brought this point up to like, this is the problem and we'll talk about your site, but this is kind of ties in with this. But this is the problem with IU football, especially with like, you know, fundraising and fans when joke about the fans in the stadium.
But it's like, you know, IU basketball. Obviously we've not been a top-tier program since the mid-90s but even in the last 15 years, You have Big Ten titles, you have you know it's getting a little bit dusty but you have the win over Kentucky and we held last year you have the win over. Purdue like. That was a fantastic. See it Assembly Hall. You'd beat /. Do you have a little mini run
last year? You know you win, if you win a tournament game you make the tournament like there are moments where it's like if you went to IU for four years, like all right we didn't go to the final four but like dude that Purdue game was awesome. Like you know, hey I use back in business like I'm gonna throw 200 bucks in the Varsity Club like I'm going to buy some sweatshirts like your this is
where I you football. As these problems is like you go nine years where it's just like nobody all my memories are like we came really close to getting within 14 points of Michigan. That's like and then you get but then you had all these eyeballs on you and everyone's excited and you know, sorry I just I just rated because it's like the Cincinnati game. Not only did they lose but it's like I'm there.
Sorry. I'm gonna rant for one minute and on the desk please like and they're like, it's hot, but it's like there were people who were waiting in. Line for a hot dog, for the entire second quarter, like things were running out of water. There was no capacity of any of those concession stands. And I remember being pissed and tell him my wife. It's like, this is like if you're IU football, like this is what you've been asking for. Like, you want to sell out like
you want for it. 58,000 people here. Like guess what you got it? We're all here. We're not all Ohio State fans and I'll Michigan fans. It's all Indiana fans, like you can't sell us, hot dogs, like you can't get us water like you're not prepared. It was a bad experience and then you also lost and then you just so the amount of Goodwill. It's just it's I'm not really
making. I'm just blabbering all the same point but it's just like it's that's the part where it was like just a system failure across the board and it just you lose so many fans and so many people are like, alright, well, I gave it a shot, I'm checking out and they've got to find a way to bring some of that back. They'll get that many chances to like make plans and to, or to take casual fans and make them.
Serious fans, and they shanked that one into the wards and it goes to your IU, basketball point. It's sort of is how you present yourself and IU basketball, still presents itself, even when they sometimes somewhat as a national brand, and you see that in the money, they throw around to get coaches and whatever else and to as a Counterpoint to that IU football. Cannot even afford to pay the
buyout of a orderly. Underwhelming offensive coordinator, and the coach has to go into head coaches, go into his own pocket, to pay part of the part, or some or all of the buyout. And that's just, it's inexcusable and I tell, you know, like you said, it's, we can't run the stadium, correct. All this stuff, it is, it is Mickey Mouse. I mean, it's and it's like, okay, well we're all supposed to be bought into this.
But like seriously, you get all this money from the Big Ten Network and we can't afford to, for a, for a six-figure buyout. That's chump change in modern college football, and this will kind of maybe going to some of our later conversations, but that's why. And I all is great, all this is
good for the sport. None of it's going to be good for IU football because we just cannot compete because we just we don't have administrative support and because of that and the history of this, we also just don't have the fan support but again, I don't blame the fans at all.
I blame all the history which we can't really get past but also the way the current Administration handles football and it's it's not, you know, it's not even close to except when you look at the practice facilities, you look at all of it and it's none of it is up to par. Even though you don't you don't think ni L will benefit IU IU basketball, for sure. There's Trace Jackson Davis is back because of that I owe no other reason. He comes back in the free and IL he's gone.
I don't think. I mean, if you look at the way this is working big. Fan base has led by you know wealthy donors which I you doesn't have for football. Generally are forming these collectives where they all just pool their money and been players are paid in connection with some and effort and I know Indiana does it for basketballs mothers to and I get it but it's paltry in comparison.
And even if you compare it to like, let's say Nebraska, we're supposed to be competing against in the Big Ten, you look at you. Compare the importance of Nebraska football to their community and their state to Indiana football and it's not even close. So and even Iowa to its those programs that have that are a big deal in their area, even without a big Major Market and our big deal to their large fan
bases. They're going to kill an ni l. So in the in the off chance that were even even with one of them on everything else that comes to recruiting, we lose, we're going to lose on a night owl. You know, nine times out of ten Maryland's going to have their Under Armour but I mean it's just we don't have we have no advantage in the ni l space none from football. Yeah. And this is kind of the negative part of the, it's what I've talked to you about, you know, recruiting is that I give Tom
Allen credit. We've gotten a lot, better nationally in our recruiting ranking, the trouble is like, we don't play Utah, we don't play West Virginia, we don't play, you know, we don't play the schools that were out recruiting now that we play in the Big Ten and the Big 10 East, and we've only moved up one spot and the same thing can be said for the
money. It's like it's great that we're going to make 80 million dollars a year in this new TV deal, but so is Michigan. So as you know, it's like we're not playing Oklahoma State. We're not going to play Kansas. Like, we're playing teams that are also going to the same
amount of money we are. And so and and not Doom and Gloom, but like to your point, other schools, like Michigan Ohio State, even schools like Purdue have shown the ability to kind of open the purse strings first assistance more than Indiana has the passing. They did open up the purse strings for Alan which was the right move at the time. And it's, we'll see how it plays out. So I like they stepped up on that. But it's like, it's so much more You have to open it up all
across the board. Yeah. It's and it's like, yeah. They've barely scratched the surface and I, you know, do I wish it was different. It wasn't an arms race. Sure. But it, but it is and we're just not equipped to keep up and it's not going to get better. And I think there is a chance, sounds like the big tennis is going to go away and we'll sort of pod system for the big time, which is again.
I've been wishing for this for decades but by the time I'm not a new, however, long it's been around. I've been wishing for it and not be big, big Chinese, but by the time that is fine. Going to arrive, it's going to be too late for it to help program unfortunately because of everything else that's hitting all the other waves that are getting that are against I use exceeding.
The last thing I'll say and, you know, I want to give Walt Bell time to show what he can do as offensive coordinator and we will see. So like the jury is still out, but the thing that I didn't like is, you know, you you had this very underwhelming season, you lost momentum all the things we talked about. It did feel like if you're the University of you'll you're not going to buy out Alan and one bad year if I'm not going to Fire him.
But it did feel like, you know, you need to now kind of double down with. You have a guy who's under contract for two or three years like Alan is not going anywhere. So the solution is like you said, we need to get him a really good offensive coordinator. It felt like that was the time, it's like, alright, we got to be in the market for who's the bit, you know, who's the hottest? Who's the best at? Who can we spend the most on?
And maybe Walpole will be awesome and I don't keep track of offensive coordinators in college football but just all the reaction that I read it didn't feel like what bell was one of the hottest. Hi. Is out there. And that's where again, it feels like we're slowly going back to what I you football is always kind of done, which is just like all right, who's who's a really good? But a good economical higher
that we can get versus. Like, let's go ahead and let's have the highest offensive coordinator salary in the Big Ten. Like, let's just, let's say to a million dollars for that. Let's just go do it. Yeah, I mean, what we got it was soon as it became known that Alan had to pay part of Sheridan's by out. We knew we were not in the market for ya, one of the big Corners, not a chance, so then it became okay.
Who's the Best, you know, group of five coordinator or guy at a rebound, you can get it. While I was on a rebound he got fired from his first head coaching position at UMass and
very poorly. I think he could argue that he was treated unfairly giving covid but it didn't go well and yeah I mean the thing is with won't values shown in his career if somehow he puts together, if you pieces together an effective offense which you know be nice if he did and they somehow win six games, he is gone at the end of the year to the highest bidder and me. I will not keep them. So you mean that's the other thing?
It's unfortunate. He's not he's not his no connection to this, you know, to this school or to Alan really other than just he needed a job and Alan have one. So I think game camera was pretty good. Offense coordinator in the NFL we could bring him back. Yeah I mean if it was like that joke I think I think also think Alan like I don't know if Justin for I would have been
interested. He wanted to get back to the Midwest. Ended up coming back to the midwest state, which is probably got similar money. If not more to be off the corner line coach there. But like, that's an IU Alum from Indiana, you know, relatively young guy and he's couple years older than me. Would have been a home run, but no way we could afford it and I probably no way Alan wants to bring in somebody. Who's that obvious of a candidate for replacement?
I wouldn't if I were him. So So let's let's go a little meta here so because I so I mean, yeah, I mean, that's that's next football season and I'd like to have you back on before the end of the year, so it will talk before the end of the football season, but you know, your site punch on punt people ask, you know, a lot, you know, how do you know, Crimson Cass had you get started? Like I have, I have this, I want to get started, you know, with with punch on punt.
How give us kind of the the origin story of, you know, why you did it? How you got started? Kind of You know, just the like I said, the origin story upon John thought, sure so good friend of mine for my you and I were you know, somewhat nerdy stats based fans starting in baseball. We're both Kelly business school
guys. We were you know, we were into the, you know, Moneyball type thing back in the early 2000s and then, you know, after after college we were obviously big IU fans and they're kind of grew this Advanced stat. The world of college football and also like a lot more focus on the technical side. You know, describing how plays work all that kind of thing and the internet which is a great place for that especially in the kind of early 2010's.
I guess because you had Em Go blog was turning every single play. Michigan put out, you know, they were deep and everything. There was smart football which was a Blog that I actually a lawyer put out who was just really into kind of how plays offense of systems. And defenseless with work. That was fascinating Bill Connolly at ESPN at that time, he was at a different site that I came to remember is be Nation used as an escalation.
He was doing amazing things with Advanced stats and we were Billy and I were thinking to ourselves, man is all great and none of this is going on as as it applies to Indiana football. All the you know there are other plenty of other sites that were doing this for their respective fan bases and it just didn't exist for us. And so the command it would be nice if somebody did that and maybe you know I guess
eventually we kind of thought. Well, we Just do it and if no one reads a great but least will have it will have that information and we created for ourselves. And so, that's what, that's what we decided to do. We kind of the idea came around probably in 2013, and this was like, right? When Alan or not, Alan Wilson was starting to like really get moving the 2013 season was didn't go to a bowl, but we were very interesting and we were dangerous and it was son failed and and Tevin Coleman.
And, you know, and Cody Latimer, you know, cetera all that grew. And we had no defense to speak of but it was at least interesting. And so in 2014, we started it and since then we've kind of changed a little bit but it's mostly Advance staff focused you know will occasionally have just kind of more General topics but it's Advanced that and I'll usually have gone through the years and broke down kind of different plays and different, you know, systems.
And and we do a lot of charting of events that happened during a game that are caught in the, in the, in the Box Score essentially. So I'm always Charlie I go. We want all the games that were played, figure out, you know, there was a pressure on this plane, who did it, here's the blitz. How many people came on that for your rushed on that play on offense? It's not just, you know who caught it how far to the Past
travel. How much was gained after the catch, you know, all that kind of stuff and so we we've tried to carve out a niche that's different than what others provide and delve a little deeper into into it. I mean it's you know, as I described it to others it's we've taken a very small fan base are really already and made ourselves and enrich of that small fee. Fan base. So it's not exactly the best business model and sure enough we have made money on it.
So but it's but it's, you know, it's a labor of love for us or has been for the last eight years. No, it's and I can't give you guys enough phrase that we've used your stats on our show numerous times. It's one of the places I go to get information. It's it's funny that you know, the MVA is really good at getting, you know, stats out and they'll be is really good at getting stats out. You know, you mentioned, Bill Connolly. Is awesome.
He was great when he was just I got on his listserv of just a Google doc every year and it's like that was amazing. And then decide no time. He's been on our show. Every year has great stuff. It's like, he goes to ESPN, and it's like, it's like they're actively trying to bury his stuff. It's almost like he's like a refugee. It's like you have to really search ESPN to find his stuff like, you have to, and it's
still not even so annoying. It is not even close to as informative as it was no years ago. Because if you remember eight years ago this You know, whatever it was let's say it's 2015, 7 years or 2016 every single team, you click on them. It had a statistical profile where they had all of their information. Not behind a pay wall, all these different Advanced tasks that he
followed. You can have it in a click and it was and it was like you could really get an idea of what a team was truly like from that and that isn't, that is gone even behind the paywall does and it's just like, I don't move backwards. And again, I kind of like, you know, deserves to make the money that he makes there. I don't begrudge him it at all but it's Ella. No, it's crazy. Bad at used to moving backwards. In terms of the availability of advanced act, I was kind of
exciting ones. I got great like they're really gonna pump him up and make him like Zach Lowe. And then it's just like, I have to search like, I live in got to Google at ESPN commonly week for like it's Jimmy's hard. But so, if anybody goes to plunge on punt, now, you'll see, you know that they have a post state of the site. You know, you're kind of taking a step back and it's
interesting. We've had a we've had similar abs and Flows. Like I want to keep this focused on you, but let me talk to myself for five minutes no, but, you know, Galen and I started Crimson cast, very similar is a labor of love. Like we both went to welcome to IU W, IU s alums and he and I were both kind of doing different podcast early in the podcast medium, but it's like I was listening to like, very early, you know, Bill Simmons podcast. I just like, this is like we can
do this for other. We could do this, we started doing a bunch different things and it's like, I think there's no IU basketball. Football podcast was right around the time, freeing got fired or sorry, K Sampson got fired. And so we're like let's let's start that. And then so we started doing the podcast and then, you know, we both like going to IU football
game. So we started doing football stuff and it kind of grew from there, but, you know, he and I have also not made any money on this, like it is still always a labor of love, but you know, we've had the Ebbs and flows, also not as much for football, but definitely in basketball. I can some of those tough cream years, we got To a point where for us it was I don't know what else to say. Like I'm I'm running out of things to say and like in the end like I love IU basketball, I love.
I you football, like I'm critical because I love like I wouldn't I wouldn't be podcasting for 10-plus years hours at a time missing Sundays with my kids. I didn't care about this and feel like I had stuff to say but on the flip side, it's like there comes a point where I don't, I'm just tired of being critical and I don't know. So we took a Hiatus for quite a bit during the end of the Korean Air, just cause we were kind of like just burn out of all of it.
You know, at the end of last basketball season before we made a little run, you know, Gail and I were both pretty weird burned out after last football season like, you know. Anyway, so I definitely. All I can say is, I know where you're coming from, but kind of the excuse, you know, verbalize some of what you said on the post where you're kind of, you know, also taking a step back from, you know, an active part
of punch on time. Sure. And I'll start by saying I'm also a wi u s-- w, IU X along. Which I didn't know that about you but yeah, that's great experience. But yeah. So what I said in the post is kind of a couple of years coming but it's a combination of factors for me and and to Billy for a lesser extent to I can speak from a little bit but in both for both of us we're just gotten older. We started the blog here at the site in our late 20s.
We're now in our mid-to-late 30s you know he's got a bunch of kids. I'm about to have my third and few months and our jobs or even real jobs are busier than they used to be. And it was this. What we do like much like you do takes a lot of time and it's, you know, we weren't even the last four years.
We have been in cranking out his buddy posted these, I haven't been but we're still I'm the value that I add to this whole Endeavor is that I have to watch every play and know every player backwards and forwards and that just sound when I think I can add and and so that takes a lot of time to go back and do that and and so that you know, I got to the point where I was like, I
am not trying keep. doing this and I am not sure I want to after what happened last year and it's and it's kind of, it's just it seemed to me like it it's sort of run, its course and Then you factor in. So there's all that personal aspect of it work and I kind of wanted to mention the coast but it's like at some point the older you get, I can't eat some
hobbies that. Get me away from my computer, I spend enough time on my computer and the day like, man, it's hard to get done with the hard work day. You get the kids to bed. And like, you know what I want to do, I want to go back on my computer and write 1,000 words, but idea of football, like that just gets harder and I saw himself on. So and then on top of that to be put in that you put in that. Again I sound like an old man and I said this on the side too, but it's Like college football
looks so different than what? I grew up watching. What I fell in love with it as a kid and I'm couldn't be happier. The players are getting paid. I couldn't be happier. They can transfer as freely as I want to, but neither of those things, make it better a better experience for the fan. Yeah, you know especially as an IU fan, we're not going to be you know in a position and then I factor you know throwing the UCLA and USC Edition. It's like great you know this is
all heading to a place. Any number of years maybe it's 10 maybe it's five, maybe it's 15 where there's a 30 team minor league of the NFL in Indiana. Probably doesn't have a seat there and so it's kind of what are we, what are we doing? And you know, I can't, you know, we're going to turn over a third of our team every year when you factor in transfers and I'm guys with some keep track of it all and that seems exhausting and so then on top of all of that, you take what I think is a program
that's on the wrong path. And that, that is how all in off dramatically and that, well, from an administrative standpoint and from a coaching standpoint, won't take the steps necessary to compete. Whether it's firing Hillier or, you know, ponying up the money to make the renovations that are necessary or whatever else. And so it's it's kind of led me to this point of. Like, I just, you know what, I'm just kind of ready to go back to being a regular fan, you know,
we'll still have some posts. I'll probably I'm almost am talking myself into this as I even talk now, like out, you know, take more of almost an opposition party to the to the current regime. Take shots that are less big found less based on, you know, my intense review of the film review and more based on just being a cranky old guy so you
know, who knows? But but it's yeah, the days of of me grinding over, you know, film of us losing by 14 or 20 to Big Ten opponent, you know, on Sunday, getting ready to get something written on Monday or Tuesday or getting information so Billy can write it. I'm just not doing it. I don't have it in me, you know. So, I think that's kind of what
led me to to the decision. And honestly, when I read the once I wrote the post and put it up, like I thought there may be some regret and there was not at all couldn't have been happier. I was like, look, this is just I feel, you know, I feel honestly little, it's freeing in some ways. And, and, and, you know, Miss Miss the all the, you know, some of the Twitter engagement, still do plenty but, and I'll miss some of the writing process and some of the responses.
But at the same time, like there's a lot of that frees up quite a bit of my fault. That wasn't there in the last eight years. When and what you're doing was way more intense than what, you know. It really is not in the same boat. Me your re watching games, you're writing post. You're doing a lot of analysis and there was just unbelievably good detailed information on your guys's site.
Where, you know, even for me on Crimson cassock, there are times like this a lot of time and spending podcasting. It's like I like talk of this. Like I'd probably be called Galen after the game anyway. Yeah. Bitching about some things. Like we might as well just record it and that's kind of always been our process. But that's also why we've kept Crimson cast, you know just behind the curtain a little bit, we've kept it.
Kind of loose. And it's not super it's not super well produced and like, I just kind of recording this, you know, I'll clip it. Put a little intro outro. And I'm not going to spend a bunch of time work on the levels of stuff, just because it's like, I'm not doing this as a profession. Like this is fun.
People seem to like it a little, you know, people seem to enjoy it. I had that that helps keep me engaged, but it's but I definitely, as I was going through your site and then when you told me this a couple weeks ago, it's like it makes sense because it's like what you were doing was very time intensive. It wasn't just I'm going to throw a couple of notes from the game and then you know, caught my buddy on zoom and record it which is kind of what we're
doing with our podcast. You're putting a lot more work into it. A lot more of Alice's and a lot more writing and a lot more. It's like, yeah I got to, you know, do a recap of a game. It's like, there's two more hours after a game, where you got to do stuff.
Yeah. The tricky thing is, it's like because I, you know, it's very easy to just, you know, spout off about about on Twitter about what you saw in the game or whatever and I'm very sensitive to the fact that I I didn't play college football, I didn't play hardly at all after her sophomore year of high school. I don't have. I'm not in the football establishment. And what I know is generally stuff that I've read and just from watching it, and that's not sufficient to be an expert.
And so, what I, what I do when I write this stuff, you know I can't I won't let myself do it if I haven't watched everything, right? And so like, that's what I bring to the table because if I didn't and I just make some off-the-cuff statement about what happened in this player that play or what this person did or what.
Do you know I'm wide open to get crushed and deservedly so but if I've watched everything, I've watched every play at least I can say, you know, and I'll just, I can describe what I saw, you know, and then that to me has some value because maybe not everyone watched everything or saw everything and saw this is how this, you know, play happened, six times. You think that's at least I've put in that time and they, no one can criticize me for not having put in the time at least.
And so, I want I'm not willing to do is continue doing what I was doing. while also putting in the time, Yeah, who started the site in 2013, right? 2014 is where we 2014, he was kicked it off in August 2014. So you had a good run, you know, during that time you watch games and you re watch games who were some of or your favorite player. I you player in that time, period, I mean Tevin Coleman. Is this my favorite? Are you kind of used? He was 2014 was his last year
was here. He ran for 2,000 yards and like despite having like no one around him by quarterback for the second half of the year. So I think Tevin Coleman is probably my favorite, Dan Feeny? This is odd choice. But Dan Feeny, like guard was like super fun to watch like and it may to me, it's probably true that Dan Feeney is more
separated from the next best. Of I used lifeguards and then, potentially anybody else even Coleman to the next option is, I think I'm narrow or Choice than Phineas just head and shoulders above anybody. We've had West Martin was a good Guardian Feeny was like way way better so I think he's up there. I think honestly you know defensively this is probably somewhat recency bias but McFadden was super super fun. I loved watching McFadden. He's right up there.
Two grey scales is also closed. He was extremely good to, you know, how else to get to somewhat recent. See. But like, just because we haven't had anybody else like him. Jamar Johnson was for his one year, he was great. In 2020 was unbelievable. And we haven't we haven't had anybody like him sense and I kind of see. Can't remember anybody like him in the previous? You know, 15 years? I've been watching. I you seriously. So he's up there, too.
I really like son fed. It's so many of the guys, I like, like, had injuries. I really like some photos from I love Shane Wynn Parts because my wife my wife loved him cause he's so little he's so small but like he's so good. Those are all those are really good options. Well, yeah, but no it's been awesome. Having you on, it's been awesome. Having you in the the IU, IU blogs, fear twittersphere, you know, fans fear. We need, we need more Mei.
The last thing I would ask you is, you know, for anybody, you know young students today who are, you know, in the media school or and wiu acts and looking to do some like, what advice as somebody who's Started kind of one of the better sites out there for IU football. What would you say to somebody who's, you know, interested in this stuff?
You know? Again, this isn't a good way to really make money at it. But my, my advice would be focus more on being really good at whatever Medium you're into then at trying to attract attention and build an audience because if you really good, the audience will come in, whatever you're trying to do. And I so I'm Advice would be like, just just focus on honing, your craft, whatever that may be and put in the time to do that. And and then let people recognize the quality in the natural way.
Now, you can be smart about promoting yourself probably more that we did frankly. And but, but I think, if you focus on being good, the rest kind of takes care of itself. That would be the biggest piece out given that in part of that, just involves you have to put in the time, one way or another. Yeah, I would, I would agree with all that. I think that, you know, sometimes people are looking at like, well, how can I do this to make money?
It's like, well, I don't know, like I can't answer that because because we're not making money, but it's also like, I'm not doing it. I think that's always been kind of the ethos of us is that we're not trying to make money. We're just two guys talking football, I think know yourself and know what you're good at. You know.
I'm trying to play around and learn Tick Tock a little bit but it's like, dude, I also got like I'm 44, like, tick-tocks, not my medium, like we're podcasters and Like, that's, that's the way it's going to be. And I would also say to that you said like, you know, put in the Reps, but I've noticed that like we've had people who've wanted to help on Crimson cast and they'll do a little bit and then it's like, they just like it is,
it's like a another job. It's like, you gotta, if you're gonna do it, you got to be regular. And you got, if you're going to have a Blog, if you have a podcast, you're going to tick, tock Channel, whatever it is like if you want to do it on a you know being a commentator on Sports, you have to have a schedule and stick to it and be ready to do it every single week and like it. It's like oh yeah, it's great. I love talking football.
It's like, no, it ends up being a grind like even what we're doing is like there have been a lot like, a lot of weeks last year were like, after that Maryland game. It's like, I don't, I don't want other Rutgers games. I just don't want to do this. I'd rather walk this off. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Watch this again. Yes, I would say.
Yeah, I don't think I do that to you is you know, whatever you're into like consume consume consume taken, all the content, you can from again, quality sources and then start to figure out how that how you fit into that landscape. And you should absolutely look for a way to be to differentiate yourself in a way that like you said is true to, who you what, you have bring to the table. So you cannot you're not, you know, I don't know exactly how to make money.
I know you won't make money doing the same thing as a number of other people, you know, are already providing because chances are, they've got some number of advantage over, oh, vintages over you. So, you need to think of some other way to present it, whether it's a medium or whether it's just a slant, whatever that differentiates you from the pack. Because there's And also, just maybe find the different program, like you want to make some money? Go, go, do some fries date, just
just go to a different school. I mean, I use great. But yeah, if you're trying to make some money in media, like, you know, I can't make a different choice. Just start aside about Notre Dame football. It's funny. You know, we I try and do previews and then I again I always a kind of end up losing interest in Steam as the season goes along, but like, when we've had Ohio State on, like the, you know, eleven Warrior guys, it is wild like looking and I don't really look at our numbers.
Is that often. But yeah, I'll poke in once a month just to kind of wire listener numbers, it's pretty solid, where we stay at. Like, if we have Ohio State on it just like spikes it is unreal. Like they have, you know, 30 40 thousand, listeners, every time and they'll come in and listen to our podcast tickets Wilds, all from Ohio, it's Bonkers. You're going to get a huge punch on pun boost to your numbers, like my dad might listen.
No, it's true. The power of the numbers of Other programs, it's unbelievable. When we just don't have it and you can we have it some of the basketball side and you can see it there but in football like it's just, it's dramatic how different it is. And you start to realize why we're in the situation we're in remote from a program standpoint that it's just a little. Yeah, well I look forward to a couple of drop in post-review. I, you know, look at it like, you know, during the season
something happens. I kind of want to see you like, you know, Wrestling coming from the top rope and just, you know, throw an elbow, maybe that's the new angles just to just to be the in party. I love, I love the opposition party idea, and I like that a lot bunch of dear, Aunt. I dare inhaler content. That's what we're starting. New specialty is going to be again. Nothing is the guy just about Tim professional, of course, to be fair. That's kind of what you were
doing. The end of last year. Already there already. We're already in that space, huh? Okay, yeah, justjust go deeper, but no, it's been awesome. And I'd love to have you back middle end of the year as we're kind of wrapping up the season. Kind of get just a again high level of, you know, you're not looking at it but everything here. And cast. We are, we are high level and not. No need to be super deep in the details. Well, separate, it's got.
I appreciate you. Having me on and let me rant along with you Dan. It's been, it's been awesome. Thank you for all the years upon John punt. Thanks for your time today and look forward to a good season. For every out there will continue getting ready for IU football season. And until next time, this is Scott for Crimson cast signing off.