You're listening to the back home network, presented by home field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson cast. This is part one of our 2 episode Mega blowout reaction podcast tonight. As there's some seismic news going on in Indiana, country and big ten country in college athletics in general, The NeverEnding, realignment, cycle
of college sports. Well, it still hasn't ended and we got some pretty big news today that we're going to talk about, and we're going to have Scott, and I King later, we're going to do fact. We might do that Lyle. I haven't quite decided yet. But you know, anytime there's realignment news in college sports. We got to bring our friend Zack back on the podcast. I think we've done one of these every time.
There's been major realignment news since like two thousand nine and so why stop the streak now Zach back? Joining us again. How you doing? Yeah, this is, this is more interesting than, like, TCU joining the Big 12, so, you know, there's that we did, we didn't, we didn't do this when the Sun Belt teams left to go join Conference USA. It didn't that didn't quite right rise to the bar that we needed. No. And I consider that a great
personal failure. If we really want to get into you know, things we regret you know. I mean not as much as the Pac-12 might be regretting the entire Larry Scott and her prize right now. Yeah, worked out. Yeah we're going to talk, we're going to go in depth, it's not gone. Well, we're going in-depth on Larry, Scott here in a little bit, but let's let's, let's start this from the very beginning. So, today at about, I do one o'clock in the afternoon, maybe a little bit later with.
There's a tweet that pops up. That says, well sources, say that, USC, and UCLA to, of course, Los Angeles schools in the Pac-12 are considering perhaps joining Calif. That's in California. Why was I was just there, I was there for a week and yes, I can definitely verify that l.a. is in California, but we get this tweet that said, well, they're considering joining the Big Ten. This comes largely. Lee out of nowhere, at least in this news cycle.
Not so much out of nowhere, if you've been paying attention. But there haven't been any inklings of this in the press. And then within about what four hours it went from well, they're considering maybe doing it and there might be interest to at 6:00 this evening. The Big Ten Commissioners and presidents are meeting to vote on accepting UCSC and he's yeah which is how this always happens when it's the one we podcast
about. Did we you have that I call it it's like the golden hour but in conference realignment it's the 20 minutes in which the cree Is a message board at actual reality occupy, the same realm? Yes. And they just go past one another. It's, it's fascinating, a lot of the energy in the universe. Actually, we could power off of that if only and with the rate we're going, we'll have plenty more of these moves to try and
test that theory. Yeah, I will my favorite way it was John will never broke it. There's two there's only two reporters who cover the Pac-12 at all, basically their John Wilner and John cannizzaro at Oregon alive. And the one who was in California got this And one who is in Oregon did not and my favorite is would it's not just welders tweet that blew it up, but I Miguel. Did you go? But I went back. Remember this sort of thing happens.
I go through the person who breaks the stories like timeline his tweet directly before it is one of the funnier things I've ever seen which was about an hour before that when clearly he was like on the verge of getting the third source to go with it, when it was some big along lines of like everything is about to change and you want someone some fun applies people, you know? Joking in the comments about how big it will be a bit.
It ends up happening and it's like, oh, this is much larger than the Pac-12 switching at scheduling model. Yeah. So no, it's as always when this happens, it goes from nobody's talking about to, it's done in a matter of hours, and the timing plays a role in it and, you know, I hadn't thought of it right away. But when somebody said this, it made sense in that, you know, the college athletics year rolls over it on July 1st.
So, if you're going to make a conference move and you want to You see the amount of time you have to wait legally. Of course these things always go to court and get shortened. You do it as soon as you can before July 1st but not after, right? So that's why the timing drops. It 3 p.m. Eastern on June 30th. Which is cutting a beautifully close. Yeah. Yeah. Here we are. And now but this might only be the start of it. Now is tonight's news, so I'm
excited for the Duke W you game. So there's a bunch of things to unpack with this and, you know, where we start, we could really start anywhere. But I think, I mean, first of all, not to Pat myself on the back because this is not exactly Galaxy brain stuff as far as I'm concerned. But, you know, when we had The last round of rumored items related to college expansion for conferences.
I said, look, the Big Ten, just needs to go get the LA school's out of the Pac-12, because that's the logical thing to do. If you're going to have Texas and Oklahoma, going to the SEC and you're the Big Ten and you're looking at things from a strategic business perspective, you have to go, get the biggest remaining fish and maybe, you know, The the fish aren't necessarily as big as a Texas, which is its own solar system of
sports basically. But if you can go grab a new geographical area a top media Market, one of the top media markets in the United States. If it's a no-brainer and I remember at the time, like a lot of the arguments against that were, well, why would the Big Ten want to artificially reduce the amount of money that their members are getting like, why would you expand unless Needed to.
Why would you do something so geographically unfitting, which all seem like old arguments to me to a large degree? And when you look at this and you realize, if the reporting is correct, that USC and UCLA were actively looking for ways out and they were the ones that made the initial contact and they were the ones that were basically petitioning to get in. You know, whether or not the Big Ten didn't want to look like the on the on honor or the dishonorable ones or whatever.
The unreasonable ones that's an opportunity. You just can't turn down. And it makes sense in the kind of real politic of college sports these days when you know, so many people seem to be handcuffed to this concept of geography and college conferences, but it doesn't matter. It's it's about the least important thing at this stage in an era where branding and marketing and ratings and revenue is really what rules the
day. And, you know, if you're the Big Ten, you're basically picking up a pair of good, but distressed. that's not distressed because of anything that they've done, but distressed of the who the partners there with at this point are Yeah, I do. I value geography. A little more than you. But I will say this, something, for folks, to consider in terms of the Texas, USC side of this, in the Pac-12, as a whole, is that outside of each other, every single car Conference game.
They play in every sport. They are getting on a plane now as it is in the Pac-12. Yeah. And that's true for pretty much every other Pac-12 School. Oregon could bus to Washington, but given what we know about Oregon Athletics, I bet they don't. So every Pac-12 Team, every trip in conference is a massive plane
ride already now. Now they go across time zones but there, I bet there are some geographically but a shorter trips than the Washington, and Washington, State and Oregon and Oregon State, and that's a quarter of your conference. So there's that Terms of the other side of this, I think we've learned a situation where, you know, in terms of TV Partners Fox. It's the biggest card that they
could play. In terms of Leverage, we do a big 12, Big 12, the Big Ten as, you know, is currently in the Middle TV negotiations, basically being led by Fox. And while, I don't think it's remotely as attractive or as Interesting as a leveraging. Oklahoma, and Texas of what was available, it's as good as they could get, and it's a very good one. I mean, it's huge. Pools in a huge Market that I don't think really cares too
much about college sports. But still, they're big names in a big, big market and I think, yeah, if you're the Big Ten, I mean, this seems like something where the schools came to them. I think also, what plays a huge role here in Galen, as I think that USC, and UCLA see, which way headwinds are going in terms of TV, negotiations? See the way it is right now for
the Pac-12, which is not great. And know that we're it was going to go. When they come finally, could do a new deal in. 2024 was not going to be great. It was going to be better but the Gap, the degree to, which the Gap is widening. Between, let's say the Big 12 in the FEC is one thing. Even though it's reduced the Big 12, the school leaving, but the gap between the Pac-12 in the SEC and the Big Ten is a gigantic.
Yeah. I mean it's I mean where you get to a point where it seems like it'll probably 60 million a year and if you want to weigh it, isn't it? You just if your conference decides to go Whole Hog with apple and Amazon or something. Which I mean, if I'm USC or UCLA, if I'm Washington State, find great, if I'm USC or UCLA, where I just brought Lincoln Riley in for the gross domestic product of Guatemala. I'm not, I'm not looking
positively to situation with. The only way we can hope to not get completely reamed on TV. Money is if we go with someone who's never really broadcast, the college lie, so the money wasn't is not going to be there for the Pac-12. Even if those schools would say that just didn't seem Or not going to be there anywhere close to where the Pac-12 or the big to wear the Big 10 and or the SEC is right now. Their new deals haven't even kicked in yet.
The Big Ten one has been signed, so they're not near them right now. Where are they going to be in 2030? It's like that's why UCLA USC, just pulled the ripcord and because they had to get out now where they were going to be, they were going to be a real financial trouble, the financial the financial distance that we're looking at potentially between The Big Ten in the SEC where they're going to be pulling in about a hundred million dollars per School per year just in meteorites.
Not in total revenue but just in meteorites. And that for Big Ten schools right now represents about 125 percent increase over what they're currently making which is about 40 million dollars a year. I mean so you take that hundred million dollar a year mark and you compare it to what Pac-12 teams would be made. Aching under this same vision or the same era. It's like comparing a power five conference and an FCS conference
in terms of Revenue models. If you look at it like 20 years ago, and this idea that there's this huge Gulf that's now existent between these different conferences and what they do and you know, you met. So there was a tweet from front office Sports earlier the Pac-12, meteorites Revenue distribution for 20 21 is going to be approximately 20 million dollars per school. So Already.
Like at a point that is half that of, what the big, ten schools are going to make in the same year, and now you're talking about exponential jumps beyond that. Yeah. If you're USC and UCLA, I think you're looking at this and you're like, this is crazy.
It's interesting. Because there was a, there was an interesting piece on on three Sports, where there was a podcast that they had done and one of their college football, analyst JD pick, L, was talking about this and You know, there's some reputational elements to this, also, which is that it's not just that you're not making that much money if you're USC or UCLA, and you're in the Pac-12, it's, that you are looked at as a second-rate team or a second-rate program, even in
football. And, you know, UCLA, well, that's probably true, but you know USC. I mean, this is a national brand that is essentially been relegated to also-ran consideration, even when they're good, or when Washington's gonna It's like well, there are Pac-12 team so they really shouldn't be taken seriously that stings if you're a USC and so it's like what is the what's the Escape Route there to try to get back to National respectability
again? Yeah, you're telling me you get to get away from that perception and get 80 million more dollars a year. I mean you're probably going to take it and do USC thing I go back. I thought a lot today about the Lincoln rally thing.
In terms of was this, I don't think this was in the works at that point, but I also don't think that the USC and USC woke up today and decided to give C10 office, a call between, I think, I think I think these This on an unofficial like, you know, commissioner assistant meeting an associate athletic director, you know, by accident in like a Denny's in Boulder, you know, where there's a conversation had like, well, if we were
interested, what would you say? I mean that could have happened at Thanksgiving of last year for all we know. And, you know, buddy. It's kind of like, well it's also most important thing here, Gail and yeah. The what? Sorry I just realized, I mean Kailyn. What do we just have in the last week? You will notice the Casita convention in person, Las Vegas, the largest gathering of College athletics, officials from every single conference and every
single TV partner and college. We're all in Vegas for the last week. If you're going to do a deal and you want to keep it kind of stand, you can put everyone in a room and nobody has to make a phone call and nobody knows anything. You can hide it a million but it's Vegas. You can hide in a million places. You can bury the He's in the
desert. So they just, they're just coming off of the biggest networking event College athletics, had the last two years given K. The, they're changing very least. We have to change the slogan to what happens in Vegas destroys the Pac-12. It's, they might not be the only one we have. Yeah, well before we, before we get to that, let's talk about the Larry, Scott piece of this, this puzzle. I mean, there's always there's always a butterfly effect in college sports.
I mean, you know, if you You can trace, you know, the big Ten's inability to Checkmate, the bowl Alliance all the way back to Michigan. Actively keeping Notre Dame out of the Big Ten in the 1920s. You know, there's always some kind of long-tailed chaos theory that ends up affecting things. And if you think about this right now, you going into the mid-2000s, the Pac-12 was not that poorly positioned.
I mean, you know, they had some national Brands USC had been the best college football team for a few years there basketball was doing pretty well. They hire Larry Scott and you know, for essentially like Scott almost pulled off getting Texas into the Pac-12 and then it didn't happen. And then he made perhaps the worst series of high-profile College commissioner decisions that we've ever seen and it ends
up, he's no longer in office. And USC and UCLA are gone by 2024 and essentially the Pac-12 ceases to exist as an entity that matters, I mean, We've joked about Larry Scott, a lot in a variety of contexts but it's fascinating to think about how Central of a character he's going to look like in the next 10 to 15 years when people go back and try to figure out how we got to where we are right now. Yeah, his commitment to maximalist.
Comedy is one that should be long valued and considered like it just every decision. Just, they weren't just bad. They were they became more plainly bad. The moment they happen like sooner and they were bad and bigger ways and it costly or ways and it's you know, it's not just starting the network that's fine. We're going to go on our own. Okay. That's a little weird. Yeah, but we're going to do
seven that works. Huh. And we're going to do we're going to get the absolute, we're going to Broad. We're going to a high-end broadcast the level of which technology. Lee. SP and NBC, and CBS. Don't you there sports for like Pro Sport, huh? We're going to San Francisco, but it's the most expensive place because we're going to get the most expensive All Glass office. We can find its, let's go. What we're going to move the basketball tournament Vegas.
Well, that's not bad. That's kind of. Okay. I'm also going to require my own suite for a week at the top of the Aria. Wow. What? It's like when Pete when people deep control European dictator, whose downfalls mirror, this It's it's funny because Imelda Marcos comes to college athletic. It's like all of the things that people thought Gary Bettman was doing the submarine, the NHL, you know, it's like an agent of the of the NBA. This is like an actual version
of that. I mean, maybe some, maybe in, like 30 years. We're going to find out that Larry Scott got sent to the Pac-12 by the Big Ten, you know, under cover of darkness. And it was just kind of this. This long-form destruction of the conference from the inside. Its it is to all those things you listed like, There was an article that I would recommend people read. I retweeted it that Jim Alexander from the Orange County Register Road and it was it just detailed all of these things
that you just mentioned. And it's just fascinating to think about, I mean, this is a major, this isn't just a major conference. This is a conference that's always been built around the Los Angeles schools. It's a conference that, I mean, it it's got the largest state by population in the union and yes, I know Sports aren't that important in California, but USC is a brand, is important in California. There are, there are UCLA, basketball is important as a brand in California.
Like when those programs are good, they're really relevant. And you know this the Big Ten in the pac-10 were running buddies for decades, you know, throughout the 1900's, they were essentially, the force that kept the SEC and Notre Dame and and the S the southwestern conference from taking everything over and to watch. The Pac-12 essentially just disintegrate because of one bad decade and have their best teams or their most relevant teams, go to the Big Ten.
I don't think it's just fascinating from historical perspective for me. Lots of leaks have a bad decade. They usually don't die, right? This is kind of impressive than the only league in their third of the country. They have a monopsonist really and yet they just made bad play after bad. Play any treasure for yeah. Hiring the guy who ran the WTA like when's the last time anybody really watch aw tapes. Ta event, not a major those.
It's like golf the tennis Majors have nothing to do with the WT RPP. Larry Scott, the main TV experience was negotiating. A TV deal for a tennis league with the Tennis Channel, which is not exactly the same as going to Market when you're starting a brand-new colors, Sports Network for a league in, which are highlighted. God bless him? I love him, man. The water. Polo in vain. Tory is going to be a real hairy there.
If you're not going to Parker with a nibble Network, who's done a network before, and then the whole moving to San Francisco thing at that, really got highlighted by covid. We all learned that we can do any of these jobs from anywhere, as. Oh, yeah, we get. Well, as we're sitting here. UCLA has announced that they will be joining the Big Ten in I'm guessing 2425. Yep, well, we'll see you in court. H. This is, I mean, the Texas. Oklahoma thing was fast. It was not this fast that took a
couple of days. Yeah, this thing. This thing was they texted are USC and UCLA utilized all the technology of Southern California and Silicon Valley, it's to completely Leave Act. Well, forget, it's just amazing. I mean, it's all. Thanks to one bad Larry Scott. I gotta say I will, I will I need to offer an apology to Kevin Warren. Who I was pretty critical about.
When the, when the, when the Texas and Oklahoma stuff came out because, and look, I think you have to think about these things more in political terms and business terms than competitive terms and the argument at the time, was what the Big Ten looks like. It's standing Pat while the SEC races, past them for financial relevancy, for National
relevancy. And this is, I mean, whether this was something that was entirely the California schools decisions, and maybe it's I'm done and announced that way to like allow the Big Ten to save some face. I don't know what it is. But still this is this is a key move and I was very worried. Frankly about the Big Ten potentially getting outmaneuvered on the national
stage by with the SEC had done. And so, I do think that Warren deserves a lot of credit for either making this happen or at least putting the Big Ten in position and getting everybody wind up to agree to this because it really does completely change the game. Bored at this point, as far as College athletics is concerned. Yeah, and I'll give you credit for that because you were critical of him. But you have the ability to say, okay things changed.
I am utterly fascinated, justly, I'm leaning forward in my chair to see how the Ohio State Transit. Going to spin this one because those folks wanted Kevin Warren dead because he didn't want to play football in a pandemic and he was bad for the league and we're going to protest outside the show, the foul and stuff and Kevin Warren.
And he took that personally because this dude has completely changed the landscape for his league and may just be starting by the sounds of it and it's a mess of move for them. It's completely. It's it's a vote in favor of The fact they went outside to go system of the league to get somebody. They didn't hire a commissioner who is busy worshipping, the sacred bonds of the Rose Bowl and the Pac-12 in the Big Ten Alliance.
And of course, speaking of Alliance, know the minute, he got an offer to do something that would murder the Pac-12. He asked for the gun, so and the presidents of the Big Ten did not try and stop him. I do wonder about the speed of this. If the faster you do something like you, do you shoot first, ask questions later? Sort of move. But I don't think there would have been any pushback in the Big Ten on this.
I think it's something you can answer this better and I could go. And it's like there's no Reserve any resistance inside? The Big Ten on this in terms of fan bases, is there? Well, this is, it's wild and you alluded to it at the beginning. But before we started recording, a lot of people don't like this. They're they're, they're opposed to the geographical lack of fit. They're opposed to, you know, it's if course everybody's in like, you know, the Grab phase
of things. And, you know, this is just greed and all of this and, you know, to me, here's the thing. My, when I look at people, people don't like change people. You mean n IL and everything that's happened in college athletics lately. People have been really opposed to it and I don't think people are going to Care in two or three years about n IL. They care now because it's different and different must be bad and because it's a different, you know, it's a change in in what they have
perceived. Received college sports to be and I look at this and kind of the same way where I understand why people look at this and they have a hard time cognitively with their, you know, the idea of to Los Angeles schools in the Big Ten. I get it. It is definitely different. But I think look, that we've been in a different phase of college sports since about 2005.
I mean, I think if you go back, you can think you can really date it 2003, when the UCC basically cut the the the testicles out of the Big East, you know, and they take Miami and they take Virginia Tech and they essentially completely change the entire Foundation of College athletics that changed the game. And the old rules that just basically didn't apply at that point. So I look at this and yeah, of course, money is going to be made. I don't look at this as a greedy
thing. I look at this as a survival thing for both the Big Ten and the LA schools. And if anybody else ends up jumping in on this, I think all it does, is it it really lays bare the reality of college sports, which is that it's a professional Enterprise, there's a lot of money involved, there's a lot of Market positioning that you have to do and you have to be a nationwide brand, you can't
afford to be a regional brand. If you're going to be a regional brand, you have to be like the SEC where you are. Just like, so good at one or two particular sports, that it it allows you to be a national And because everybody wants to follow along with what you're doing.
So look, I understand the resistance, I understand why people are reacting negatively, but I don't think at this point that it's anything, but a good thing, it's not going to ruin the Big Ten. It's going to make it different, but the alternative is being the permanent second-tier conference to the SEC, who financially would start lapping, you very quickly if the current order or the order prior to 559 today was the one that was going to Stay in place.
I don't know. I mean, am I off base here or what? No, I would this drop today. I was honestly, I had less of a problem with the tonight did so to speak with the Texas Oklahoma one. And I wondered, is that simply because of the order in which they occurred, because I look at them as basically, the same sort of move. They're just the ultimate. There is no attempt to pretense here. This is a market move, this is a move. I need to read you some profit just for Texas, Oklahoma and
Laughing your butt off. So I need to know why I need to read this statement from the UCLA director of Athletics, that just got put on to Twitter. So, this is a Martin jar mod, the former, the former Boston College's, athletic director. It's always those bastard. We're it's not just the Yukon fans. They ruined everything. Sorry, go ahead. There's some sweet Martin Sharma who by the way was like this close to getting fired because there are serious issues in the UCL a-- F life.
Department involving abuse and boy are those on the back burner now, yeah, please read mr. Charm on statement, UCLA Athletics, primary responsibility is to our student athletes to supporting them and providing them with the resources and opportunities to have an elite experience. While they represent the four letters after thoughtful deliberation, we came to the conclusion, that the best way to do that amidst amidst rapidly Changing Times in college.
Athletics is to join the Big Ten Conference from increased. Exposure and a broader National platform for our student-athletes to enhanced resources. For our team's. This move will help preserve the legacy of UCLA UCLA Athletics for generations to come. We have deeply valued our membership in the Pac-12. And we have great respect for the conference that our fellow member institutions. But he's School faces, its own, its own unique challenges and circumstances.
We believe this is the right move for UCLA at the right time just that's in and quote, Lars Swats of that is like are good. First of all, be closed. We believe this is in the best interest of UCLA. It's honest and it doesn't run away from money. It isn't hiding behind an academic partnership or something with research money. They're very upfront about this. But at the same time, after careful deliberation, we decided to leave a conference.
We've been associated with for 100 years on a June afternoon. Like it just leaving for dead in. Barstow, this is Absolutely shoot it in the middle of its face but we have respect for Washington State as we just murder it. The Utah I'll say that this I'll give I'll give you see it. I'll give the University of Southern California, slightly more credit, they had their president come out and make a statement on this but I'm
surprised. So here's the thing, it's almost the same statement that I just read from the UCLA athletic director. Yeah, we're joining a storied conference. The chairs are the same Loft that shares our commitment to academic excellence in academic athletic competitiveness, and we're positioning USC, and our student athletes for long-term success and stability. Mm, it's the rapidly evolving, Sports, media and Collegiate, athletic, Landscapes ultimate. This is from Mike bone, the
athletic director. Ultimately, the Big Ten is the best home for USC and Trojan Athletics. As we move into the new world of Collegiate Sports, it sounds like they were listening to the podcast earlier, you know? It's Well, about, it's about time. Yes, we are excited that our values align with the League's member institutions. We will also, we also will benefit from the stability and strength of the conference.
The athletic caliber of big head institutions, The increased visibility exposure and resources. The coverage will bring to our student athletes and programs in the ability to expand engagement with our passionate alumni Nationwide. I mean, wow, they just left the knife. In the back, the interesting thing in both of those statements that the similarity actually makes a lot of sensitive about, like, how many different things could they have said?
It's not a lot here. This isn't like well shitting. So in the Donetsk region, there's a hold on to which is both statements. They mentioned TV is interesting and media got sorry. So there was more from UCLA. And I think this was, this was a larger statement for our fans for our fans, Big Ten membership equates to Better television time slots for our road games but the same number of home
games. Either at the Rose Bowl in Pauley Pavilion or other UCLA venues we will make efforts to preserve our traditional Regional rivalries and are pleased that our Crosstown rival. USC will also be joining the Big 10 and 24 25 which is really interesting way of positioning it because it's like, hey guys, we don't want to give up any home games. You're going to get all those will just be road-tripping in
two different spots. What I the whole time I haven't understood, why de facto schools hate the lake kickoffs but like do you look at a map? Like they're the only been a major conference in the Pacific time zone. Yeah. The TV networks want to have games at 10 p.m. Eastern which makes an interesting. It's an interesting thing to the way. Yeah. By the way, news to USC and UCLA, if you think you're getting less 10:00 kickoffs, but not as many as they probably
are. Well, this was ours going to say. Like there must be some kind of big protections here for USC and UCLA in the negotiations where they're like, hey guess what? We'll do this. But we want like 4 p.m. local kickoffs at the latest. Like, we don't want any more of this 10:00 or 11:00 stuff that ESPN has been doing or that fox has been doing which look, if that's if that's what they wanted. That's an easy gift like fought, you know, big Ten's like yeah,
sure, no problem. We don't want our games on at 11 o'clock, local time either. Yeah, you know. So, It's so it'll be you know kind of it's the perfect marriage because you won't believe in the big tent which like Everyone likes being at 11 a.m. and you have schools in a league where nobody likes me. Get that for you. Yeah, like so it's, it's yeah, you can take 4:00, like, about if Michigan kicked off at 4:00. In a lot of situations the fan
to be pissed off. Like, don't take an IQ but 4:00 then. Look, what the hell, yeah. They'd rather be at noon or eight. That's it. So you tell them, we only want four o'clock Eastern. The last. How many? So, It does, but there are going to be a push or a few games a year that are going to end up at
the 10:00. But I mean I don't think USC was worried about like the Calle De that's actually the cover played nephew, if there weren't worried about the Nevada game being at 10:00 they were worried about Arizona. And then next week, ever since taping at 10:00, which I think is a stupid worried. But I understand, I understand what fans complained about. I get that the fact that like the athletic directors like cared, like the check cleared,
what do you care, right? So but it's the degree that the amount of meteorites references in both statements and the specific nature of our current deal sucks and here's specifically why it sucks and what we don't like about it. That is, it's taking out from And the curtain, all the stuff that cannizzaro and Wilner have been reporting about this is quite this wasn't just like a fan thing.
It eventually it was a kind of a critical mass of Fame complaints and athletic department, complaints. I mean, to that point, like do they even go to the Pac-12 and say, well, if you can match this will stay. Nope, they were just gone. There were gone, they've been there a hundred years. They got it off of the big The Pact never gonna get this, right? They got an offer from the Big Ten that had what they wanted and that was it. They were out they were Route.
They weren't going to go. She ate even though they would have had an incredible amount of Leverage with the Pac-12 and amount of Leverage that will become very apparent in the next couple of months. They just were gone. They were they, they were it tells you how deeply they believe in this thing that they didn't even need to listen to what the Pac-12 had to say, even even with without Larry, Scott being involved for the last year.
Yeah. And even when it seems like things have actually started to stabilize in terms of performance, the Riley higher was I thought seismic for that league and it was going to save the league gal. It hasn't quite done that. And now yeah, here's the school. It's done. It's done, it's done. So the last question, I'll ask and then I'm going to let you go. What what's the next move? What's the next? Big move in college sports.
So we've heard, we heard a lot of the chatter around this not just that the Big Ten I was taking USC and UCLA but that the Big Ten may not be done, which means the Big Ten is definitely not done. So right, there's a bunch of things on the table. So there's there's a few scenarios, I'll throw at you and you can take whichever one you want one of them is okay. Are there any is there any more meat left to pick off the bones of the Pac-12?
You know you've got obviously you've got Oregon and Washington, we know Washington obviously the prime School in the Seattle Market. One of the few schools that regularly does, at least a for rating or better in college
football games. Obviously Oregon is kind of its own National brand and now in a very weird way, although, it doesn't have much of a market media-wise, you've got Cal and Stanford Stanford's a big feather in the cap for anybody from an academic perspective and they still have a decent F, athletic brand, but then you've also got Notre Dame, who there was a an anonymous quote that Adam Rittenberg had out there. Which said in Words to Notre Dame.
It's getting essentially untenable to be an independent at this point and it's a great. Well that's a great fair enough and you amass we're doing it there it up. Correct. But then you've also got the the other elephant in the room here is the ACC and the fact that Jim Swafford signed a deal that lasts until 2036 lasts until I mean Talking about what they haven't even picked an Olympic host or a World Cup host for as far out as this deal goes.
And it's only been the bribes out and it's so far out and it hasn't, and it's generating about what 17 to 20 million dollars. A year per ACC school and that number is not going to go up unless they get to renegotiate. The contract, which is why they brought Jim Phillips in, as the commissioner, but they, they have no leverage like ESPN.
The only leverage they have is ESPN wanting to counter Fox At this point and I don't know if they really care that much given what they've got going with the SEC so that to me puts a lot of those ACC schools in play. It puts, you know, if you wanted to go football, it puts Miami and play. It puts Florida State in play. If you wanted to go, if you wanted to cut the heart out of the ACC suddenly North Carolina Duke and Virginia are in play. Certainly you could peel Notre
Dame off if you wanted to try. So I guess the question I would have is if you're the Big Ten and you know, that any schools you add are going to Have to add some significant Revenue, positive value. Probably in most cases to get agreement. What, if anything would you do? Would you stand Pat with these two schools? Would you go elsewhere or what would you do? Well, but this virtually broke. I actually thought it was a good day for the ACC. I thought about that whole Lions
thing. I thought a lot of this was the ACC part of the alliance, going to the going to the Big Ten going. Yeah, no. You should do that because it helps the chances of them getting Notre Dame into the ACC as the days gone on. I don't think that as much now, and if it look and willner saying they're thinking about it, and he broke this, I'm willing to think the thinking about it.
So, if I'm them, it's easy to say, Washington, Oregon and Idaho. I agree except I think that the political it's politically untenable to take Washington Oregon and not take Washington State and Oregon State. I think I don't think that would work. I think there's just too much. It's not like like it was hard enough to get the Texas schools, because they all hate each
other. I just don't think they could politically, pull that off to leave both Washington State and Oregon, stay behind and Oregon. And Oregon State are actually very close as schools. One of the things that hurt the Pac-12, didn't the rivals didn't nearly hate each other as much as would have, made the More successful, like that's better in terms of humanity, but it makes it harder to do things.
Like, I'm not saying, Oregon, wouldn't stab, Oregon state in the back of the film is giving a lot of money to Oregon State people realize well, and they can kiss him off, and people forget people, people, people Washington, Oregon, people, forget there's precedent for this because the big when the when the big eight was trying to swallow the southwestern conference, all they wanted was Texas and Texas A&M and the
Texas state legislature. If I remember correctly for Them to also take Baylor and Texas Tech or the whole thing was off. Now obviously those bonds haven't lasted that long but
this is not an unheard-of thing. Sorry, go ahead. so so because of that, while I would say Washington, Oregon out I think There's just too much that would have happened if they might do it. Also allows you to say we've got all the California, you take Stanford and couch, God knows, the big, the big 10 cannot wait in the Big. Ten is fluttering at the ability to tell Stanford academically.
They're like vibrating at the ability to do it and Cal, congratulate your in because they need a true Dragon partner. So I think Stanford Cal and honestly, if they go after the ACC, I think you offer duke-north Carolina, you just don't mess around. There's it's for what they are
now. It's obviously the moment of greatest transition for what they're known for, but at the same time, It's the most I think guaranteed lock thing to work for what you're bringing them in for, I think that makes more sense. I don't, I mean Notre Dame's. The what everyone says, but we had 110 years with this well, and as I say that you're about to tell me that like they're joining. No not yet.
Not yet. Although I think I think it's more on the table now because at this point ordered a doesn't have a choice financially. But no, the reason I got it, giddy, John or. And from I think it's that. How you pronounce his last name. I've never actually known from the sports business. Journal. Just gotta all ran Sports position, just tweeted the following. Apple told the Big Ten it wants to re-engage in media talks after it heard about USC, and
UCLA joining the conference. Guess what the pot might grow some more here? I bet it's just tremendous. I love it. Well, the other thing that you've got so much, you've got so much volume in. If this thing goes to 20:22 model, this is sort of thing where like boxing me the primary and it's being can still get a crap load and apple gets a crapload. There's so much. There's so much to go around for everybody. It's the sort of thing where
it's so big. You actually don't get media companies working against one of everyone's just happy. I will give you this much and we'll get this much. And we on the well care about what we don't have. You know what it is so much. It's the, you know, it's the NFL and this is the thing that people who don't follow Sports closely enough. Don't get like, why is the NFL
so financially successful? It's because Why they are so important as a marketing entity as an entertainment entity that every major media entity is their business partner. And those business partners will pay literally whatever the NFL demands to stay a partner. Now, I'm not saying that the Big Ten alone is going to get to quite that level, but we're already talking about the first billion dollar television deal.
Combined. It could go higher than that and you know what the long-term thing? The thing we'll talk about the next time we podcast is at some point and this is where I think, if you're smart and you're the Big Ten, you cut the heart out of the ACC, either by taking duke-north Carolina or Duke Virginia, North Carolina, Virginia or whatever. Because at some point you get to a big 10 mega conference versus SEC Mega conference and everybody has to have games from both and that's how everybody
makes money. And that runs counter to how a lot of people have thought about this. But it's a lot different with two major players. Hours than it was with five or six. And that's ultimately the big difference that we're seeing right now that we didn't see 10 years ago. Yeah, the sweetest thing today is with people talking about there being three super confidence. Oh honey. Oh honey.
If you think the ACC is last for this all you are there just a class just a fly dancing in a hurricane there because then my other thing here is like I'm fascinated by what happens with this with the like for the Pac-12. Like where do you backfill? Like it's easy to assume the the Big 12. I honestly think you look at the Mountain West schools but I don't think they do that. I mean, I don't know. Vadas not much.
Like really is the pet store solution going to be to add Texas Tech and Kansas State. I mean really. Yeah, well I wouldn't do we just put them on the bag and shake them up and then we'll see, you know, tell me. Well, who are iOS? 8 is playing West Virginia. I mean, at this point isn't the Big 12 more likely aggressor than the Pac-12, like, aren't they? The ones grabbing the Arizona schools, rather than the other
way around. I think so, because at this point, if I'm, if I'm if I'm here, if I mute on, if I mute on, if I'm Utah and Colorado. I'm like, what did we do? And why did we do it? It's like now, like, you've got a direction. You've got to go and it's cause different, Utah's different if this leaves. If this leads to Colorado, going back to the Big 12, that's the funniest thing that could have possibly happened a big 12, and it doesn't have any of the good schools.
That's the funniest thing that could have happened. If poor Frankie is running out there and by God, Texas Tech Red, Raiders on the other sideline once again. So yeah. What happens to the it's it's a great day for the Big 12, I guess because there's more is a great if they were they could buy off. For UCF and tell him. We'd actually rather have a Stanford but that's not gonna happen. But yeah, it's I think aggressively. I think the Big 12 is the one that makes the move.
I pick the Pac-12 as we know, it's the one that's in trouble. And oh, to be a fly on the wall. In Craig, Thompson's office at the Mountain West, but they have outlasted everyone. They were the first to have a conference that work and they all laugh. They all said it would never ever, and and Mountain West, is going to outlast them all except Sandy. Go State Sadie was already making himself available to the Press today to try to wedge their way into the Pac-12. Just tremendous, tremendous
stuff. I mean, I think, I think their ships finally come in. They've got a new football stadium. Now, I think San Diego's state if they Peck solve, that's part of why I say the Mountain West because I mean, I don't see how you're getting any of the Big 12 school do. We can get even more dysfunction like in a worse League. Like why would a big 12 school go there? Honestly. So I don't think any of those schools are going to go there.
And yeah, I think they saying, Biggest eiko's in and the ship is coming for Boise State. Probably. I wonder about the Gonzaga when I think it might just be too untenable. And the thing I'm focused on out here, out east is, we've heard about the Gonzaga Piggies rumors because this makes that likelier. Maybe I don't. I mean, you know, this is for our podcast now, what does this mean for college basketball or college soccer? But I hope it's a little
significance. Yeah, well, there's plenty more to talk Cronin coming into Assembly Hall. Mick, Cronin is coming to Bloomington. It's been, it's been a lifelong dream. It really has. I tell you what I'm really interested in and I'm literally, like I got it. I gotta cut it after this. What the heck does? You like, if I'm, if I'm playing Baseball for USC, or UCLA right now. Like, what am I thinking about the first trip? I have to make to Iowa City in March. What I'm wondering.
Actually, I was like this sucks for the card for the oil exports. Actually like it come baseball's had a huge couple of weeks and pretentious, tell everyone, they're schools. Now, you're going to USC or UCLA for the first time it actually solves a lot of their past. It really does Michigan Indiana. If I'm, and if you're USC, you get told. Hey, guess what we're at home for the first month and no, there will not be snowed in Bloomington. In May what do we go there?
Probably that we might all get blown away in a tornado but there won't be snow will be ok. Yeah, it's fascinating for a baseball standpoint. I can't wait for USC to start shit talking. Indiana swimming. Now, this will be fun. I want to see those two Titans. Finally, throw down the water. Polo Classics. We've been waiting for, there's so many interesting places, this goes Gail and and one of them might be Apple.
So, what did they College? Athletics is had and I appreciate it. Distracting me from jail, and Bronson's the Knicks for a hundred million dollars. Hey, that's that's what I'm here to do another, another one of these podcasts, another one of these podcasts, Scaling, you know, I can it's great for our friends at home field. They get to make all sorts of vintage stuff for the pac-10. The pack 812, now we're gonna pack 14 of impact, 26.
I'm looking forward to the entire collect home-field collection of defunct conference logo. Tel Aviv or t-shirts. Just just just like give me all of them at this point. Oh God kahlan. If you don't think if you don't think today, I thought we might have the rise of Eastern independent football. Once again, it might happen if the AC falls apart just like ten schools up here, who are going to suddenly need a plan.
And that's like I honestly think that's the most direct Domino of think she falls apart, is what the hell? Do 12 ACC schools to? It's it's going to be really good. If another 2 Pac, 12 schools go to the big Channel, we run through that. Yeah, it's It's a wild, that's how many scenarios and we can't even touch. We it would literally take a 12 like a Serial Arc of podcast for us to actually get to all the potential ramifications and maybe we'll do that in future
episodes. But for now, I mean, I would say like like we aren't capable of doing that please, which challenge except parrots exactly. Anyway, Zach as always a pleasure to have you joining me and a pleasure to talk with you again and we'll probably do another one of these soon. We'll have more info including our second podcast coming up. A little bit later, as I talked with Scott about this whole situation and what it means for IU, the Big Ten and college sports in general.
So, thanks for joining us, folks, thanks again to our title sponsor home, field apparel. I'm Galen, klaviyo, will catch you folks on the flip side? So long, everybody.