Ep 812 - Old Oaken Bucket / Season Recap

You're listening to the back home network presented by home field. Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cask ale clavius got Caulfield joining. You once again, it is the 28th of November and football season's over Scott. Thank God. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about the aftermath of Indiana's thrashing at the hands, of the Purdue Boilermakers. Yesterday by the count of 44, 27 at Ross Aid, Stadium a bit of a historic game on a couple of

levels. But first, how are you doing? I'm all right, it's over. We can talk basketball, it's over. We made it through. I have thoughts. Yeah, I may not be able to keep the the no cursing Scott around, but no, it's a I'm good, man. It's, it's a, it's a Sunday. It's nice outside. I have, I'll search share a picture on our Instagram feed, but one of my next door neighbor's is a Purdue grad. And so, we have like a bet just whatever IU and Purdue play in

football and basketball. The other person has to fly the other person's flag if that team loses. So I have to fly a Purdue flag above my house, but I went on to Etsy. Thank God for Etsy and bought a three by five Flags. Lag. Customize it as an arrow. Pointing up that says I lost a bet. So I'm Gonna Fly that underneath the Purdue flag to at least take away some of the sting. But man, I'm gonna be flying this flag a lot after Thanksgiving. It seems see if this is a Bad Bet. Yeah.

All right. I'm glad I'm glad we're it. How you doing? I'm bummed because I still have the tickets right here. I will also, I think I'm gonna burn the on Instagram. Gonna put this on our, put these in my fire pit and burn them. This was like my big thing for you and me as I bought tickets to the IU /, do Game. I try to give his way out our last podcast, with one person, kind of interested. And then he backed out because he was a smarter man than most, but it's like II bought.

I was like, you know, this is just this reminds me of that feeling I had in August, where it's like, oh yeah, like bucket tickets. Like I'll get him a gale about go. Like, yeah, well, you know, worst case where, at least go to the Music City Bowl like, you know, that's not gonna happen. It's amazing how it went off the rails. I'm with you, 100% on that. So, we'll talk about all that here in a second, a bunch of questions in A bunch of comments from you folks.

So many that I don't think we're gonna be able to get through all of them today. But, you know, we might have a second, follow-up podcast depending on what happens here. Over the course of the next week because it could be an interesting week for the program will have to wait and see.

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Hope you'll apparel 20% off through Cyber Monday and we hope that you, you do that. So, let's talk about. First, the game. It was an Abomination, not a surprise, but an Abomination. This was the first time since 1998. That Indiana did not break double figures in a bucket game in terms of scoring. They lost that game in 1998, 52, 27, I think it was. And this game, of course, they lose 44 27. And, you know, it's not like Indiana's.

Exactly lit. Things up in the Indiana Purdue series between then, and now, but there's at least been some successes here. And there this looked like among the worst performances I've seen Indiana play in a bowl and excuse me, in a bucket game over the course of the last 35 years. It was a very predictable game. On a number of levels, there was a scripted drive that Indiana put out early on in the game that resulted in a touchdown. That looked pretty clever.

There were subsequent, I've got, I gotta jump in, like, this is one thing, I thought like it begs. The question of like, the old joke of why don't they build the plane out of the black box? Like, why don't you just run your first drive? Every got every time like the exact same set of plays like it might work better than what you're doing. Yeah well I'm sure there's some

kind of reason for that part. Of the issue is just that most of the time, the scripted plays follow a very specific pattern and once the opposition sees it, the first time they've scouted it and it's like, well, we have no second idea here and that's exactly what happened. This time around again, the Hoosiers, decided in this game to put grant kreml in at quarterback. And look, I don't think great. Grandma was the reason Indiana lost and we talked about it a

little bit. There were certainly reasons why you wanted him in there instead of Macaulay largely because Grandma's seem to be able to, at least throw the ball down the field. But the downside of it was he still a walk-on quarterback and you still have an offense. That is basically crippled by a lack of being in touch with

reality. It's sometimes it's like, well, this is not a creative offense, but sometimes it's like, well, we don't know if that was a creative offense because while there was a five or six seconds, Long developing pass play that was called, but the offensive line can only block for two-and-a-half or three of those seconds. So who knows might have been the greatest player in the history of mankind, but couldn't be executed by the players that

were out there. And so, you know, after a pretty impressive 11-play 75-yard drive to start things off. Indiana goes 3 and out three and out for an out. And then the last Drive, I don't even know how would you describe that last drive that Indiana had?

I mean, it was just Was one of those Comedy of Errors, drives where you get, you know, you get a sack, you get a nice completion to Peyton, Hendershot you get a, you know, a couple of weird plays where liked, I fry Fogle gets inner feared with but then there's another play where he doesn't really fight to get, you know, first down yardage and then, of course, Indiana tops, it all off by missing a field goal at the end of the of the

half. And, you know, not that the field goal would have made a whole lot of difference. But at that point in the game, It would have made it a one score game again. It would have been 17 to 10 and once the field goal was was wide left.

You just kind of looked at that and said, nothing, that's happened this season, would let you think that Indiana's got any chance of coming back and doing anything in the second half and well, that was accurate because they managed to make the most plays they had in the second half. Were, there was that second to last Drive of the game, 10 plays, 51 yards and of course ended in an interception. Purdue just dominated the second half. It almost wasn't worth talking about.

There were very little, very few statistical performances or individual play performances. Indiana. Look like, they basically just wave the white flag at that point and Purdue actually didn't pile it on. As much as I feared that they would, you know, they stopped at 44 and I mean you know I think Indiana's defense had a couple of good individual moments but really didn't look up to the task at also Hoosiers lose this one and Purdue was clearly the

stronger team out there. Tom Allen's record against Purdue drops to 1 and 3 now in bucket games. Scott, what are your overall Impressions coming out of this contest? I mean, I'm going to miss this team and I hate that I got here. But I'm Gonna Miss This team because they've been great to bet against, you know, that the having for the last four weeks betting their opponent to cover. The spread has been great at the beginning of the game has been

great at halftime. It was really only about this game. I think perhaps I'm pretty. As I got 28 point, like had a 28 point spread they had a cover at that point. I'm like I I still put some money on it but I wasn't as comfortable. But like I increasingly little like going this game. Pretty was a 15 and a half Point favorite. I'm like they're gonna cover. Like there's just no Universe where they don't. We got three weeks ago. We were a 7-point favorite at home, like that's how it's it's

been fun to bet against. There's my dog wouldn't be Crimson cast that a dog in the background but I mean, gosh, I'm ready to talk, but yeah, I could talk big picture but this game went through the normal scripting, this game, you talk about Grandma. The thing that was wild is I again Wonder kind of, you know, what Alan is thinking at times when he's in the maybe it's just coach peek but it's like why even in the press conference leading up to the game talk about. Hey panics is going to be

available. Total is going to be available. It's like that you play a walk-on for the like they're not available like even if they were why would you like Lennox this game, there's no point. Why like is John Elway available like is Peyton Manning available? Like could we talk about all those who aren't available who are going to play and and yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I

think they threw it more. At least he said he want to throw more and they did and they did know they did throw the ball more. Oh, I do think we give them some credit for at least trying to get the ball in the air. And I think I would be more impressed by that if produce defense wasn't so bad. I mean, you look at their numbers. I think right now Indiana's defense is worse than Purdue's, but on the bulk of the Season, like produce given up a lot of big plays.

They've given up a lot of opportunities and Indiana. Just didn't look capable of capitalizing on any of those opportunities for most of this game. And, you know, dancer your question about the penix thing or the Tuttle thing or anything, you know, there's this thing in football, where theoretically, if you say, well, this guy may be available and maybe back then, theoretically, somebody's having to stay up and watch film and prep for the chance that that guy. I might be in there, I'm with

you. I think those kind of Mind Games matter when you're like 7 and for something. Yeah, playing for something where your opponent isn't overwhelmingly better than you are in these sorts of situations. Not so much. But yeah, it was a really. I mean, I've watched a lot of bucket games. This was the growing up unfortunately, in West Lafayette, this was a game.

I went to a lot because it was the one game that was always easy for me to get to. So I've seen Indiana win in Ross Aid. I've seen them Get pulverized in Ross, Aid. I've seen the same thing happen to Memorial Stadium. This was among the worst efforts that I've seen out of an IU team and it really fit the pattern of the last six weeks of the Season.

Where, yes, I know individual players have, you know, tried they've, they've put themselves in positions where they've, you know, they've, they tried to make plays and they've tried to keep Indiana and games, the reality is most of this team looked like, it wasn't giving the heh, Effort required to be competitive in games, like this, and the coaching staff looked like they didn't have any answers at all.

For what was needed to keep Indiana competitive or have a game plan that could last beyond the first quarter. So yeah, I mean, you know statistically just real quick talking about this game. I mean granny Granville 18 of 30 147 yards, Davion Irvin Poindexter. On the one hand, had some nice runs. He averaged six yards, a carry on the other hand, he got a nun.

It's been like conduct penalty for kicking a guy in the nuts and on a key drive that Indiana ended up missing a field goal on that could have brought them back within a score. So I have a hard time saying. Hey, great job on the eight carries for 48 yards, Charlie Spiegel had a couple of nice moments in there. David Holloman at a couple of nice moments and you know you got a good game out of Peyton Hendershot in his likely last game.

You know know that's it's a shame that hendershot's career You know, potentially is, is over like that. I guess it is technically over because he was a redshirt senior. I've lost track of the covid years and who could potentially come back. I'm going to assume that people who are, you know, seniors either red shirt or otherwise aren't coming back until told

otherwise. So wife Marcia had that at halftime, she saw that like produce giving out, you know, celebrating Juniors for senior day and like well actually they are like she forgot they didn't have eligibility last year Michael. We at their junior, like, I'm assuming they're doing off of Eligibility. Like, if they're a junior there really a senior because they played at this point, four years of college. Football's they should get a senior day with the really a

junior. And it was, yeah, it's like I've lost complete. I've lost ideas of where people are in their. I just assumed if they tell us they're gone, they're gone, they have eligibility or not. So, you know, but outside of that I mean offensively just very little stood out for this team and defensively. Look, I think Marcelino Mercury bulb deserves some credit. I had a nice sack in the game. And was kind of returning funds like, yeah, I know he's all over the place.

I mean, it was, it was, it was like old times and Mike McFadden and cam Jones both had good games, and outside of that, there just wasn't a whole lot else to talk about with this team. Except, you know, I do have to say, the wow, the punting was terrible. I mean, James Evans, six pumps for an average of thirty four point, seven yards, and that was with a 49 yarder. That was pretty. All role in the mix. I mean, at one point, he had a 25 yard punt followed by a 29

yard punt. I mean, really not good from from the punting position and it's this match has a theme with frankly, a lot of problems on special teams throughout the course of the year whether it's bad. Punting missed field goals touchdowns given up on returns just a real systems failure for the special team so far this season. Anyway, we had a lot of questions that people sent in and I wanted to try to get To, as many of those as we could while.

Also, I think a lot of these match our own thoughts and things that we've discussed and you know, I guess maybe let's let's start here. And this is from Tamar Bates Stan account because I think this is kind of the overarching question that a lot of people have settled on coming into the end of this season. And the question is this can Tom Allen actually Salvage? This can he retain the fanbase following up 14 and 7 over 2 years with to bowl berths with a

season? This bad, I have my concerns besides firing everyone. What else does he need to do? So let's let's start with the big Picture because we're going to get into the firing thing. I guess a little bit later on, but let's kind of set the scene for everybody. You know, Indiana, obviously went eight and five and twenty nineteen. That was a surprisingly successful season. Last year, people were intrigued and then Indiana is basically exceeded expectations.

They finish with, you know, the in the top, 10 in the polls, a lot of options, you know, like optimism coming into this year, you've got relatively High rankings, For Indiana, at least in the AP poll, coming into the season. And you have not just a season that doesn't match those expectations. But really one of the worst seasons we've had in program history, after one of the best. So, can I highlight something on there?

I'll squeeze some numbers. Go ahead because everyone's been kind of pointing to 2011 as a as a Bad season, and rightfully. So they also went over in the Big Ten that year, the other really the only other oh I think was 95 like, so we're talking a 30-year stretch but I was playing around with some of the numbers in 2011. So I was looking at, like, how many games are weak competitive in in the Big Ten this year versus that year. And the answer is two.

If you count a seven-point spread a competitive game, we are competitive and two big ten games this year to Big 10 games. In 2011, I played around with Excel and there's one a little deeper in 2011, the point differential for Why you in the Big Ten? Losses was 195 points in 2011? You would, it was in 2021 Galen. It was more 222. So there's a higher Point, differential I've not done 95 yet. But I mean, this puts us in, you know, one of the worst, one of the worst seasons in 20 to 30

years. And I just sorry, I don't mean to cut it on that, but it's like about it is it's, you know, look based on no big 10 wins. You got to mark it up with the seasons where you go over in the Big Ten but it's like to me, you know, I look at 2011 kind of answering the question here at least in 2011 like when I look at some of the Players on that team. It's like you had a family. Pull it up. Sorry I was it was a bad team. Well but you at least had a young tree Roberson's.

You had a young shade win and Kofi Hughes you had some guys who were going to become better players later to me. That's the scary thing about this season. Is everything you're saying is right. Sorry, I'm hijacking your point here, but it's fun. It, you know, the scary thing here is that there aren't a lot of those young players that you can at least say, well, you know, we have a Opie Hughes who might get better or a shade win. It's like we had them a collie who now is back behind us a

walk-on. We have a lot of guys like McCarey ball, Peyton Hendershot like a lot of the guys here who are doing well, our seniors and the other ones like are doing nothing and like we still have half our leaderboard of offense or guys who haven't played since October. Yeah and so that's the really scary thing is he can't even look at and then she's a couple pods, you know, you can't even look like well, hey, we got a couple young receivers a couple

of young. Use your guys just here working their way to the speed of the game. It's like, no that we have no young freshmen who are at least good enough to try and get in to a Purdue blowout. And that's the part where I think no question this is this is the worst place we've been in 25, 30 years which is remarkable where we were as you were just alluding to well.

And this is where I think this gets to be a complicated question to answer because this I think about halfway through the season was a disappointing season at the end of the season, it's a season that went completely off the rails in way that few seasons have like normally for Indiana football, things are just bad all the way through.

There's no expectations in the team is terrible or the team is kind of like got mixed expectations and they tend to finish like with four wins or five wins and occasionally, they'll get that sixth win but this was a rare one where everybody thought that the team was a lot further. Along than they ended up being and they ended up basically being the worst team in the Big Ten.

I understand. If you want to make an argument for Northwestern being worse than Indiana in this season, but at least Northwestern won a game in conference and Indiana didn't. So, that's, that's the tough question because it's not just a matter of can Indiana. Can Tom Allen recover. This, it's like, what? What's being recovered at this point.

I don't have Good handle on. I think it's obvious at this point that Indiana was not as good as the rankings indicated last year, but they also weren't bad either like, I mean, the winds were not a mirage. And yes, they might have won games largely against teams last year, that that didn't end up with winning records, but they still won the games, where is this year? They lost those games and badly

down the stretch. And so when you think of if you go to 2019 I mean they were Eating, you know, they had a four-game winning streak in the Big Ten, they beat Northwestern, 34 23, they but Rutgers 35 to nothing. I mean, right? So, you know, it's like I would be like I'm with you, it's not a mirage. So like so a lot of the question ends up being. How much weight do you put on what happened in? 2019 and 2020 versus how much weight you put on what's going

on right now? But it's also not a matter of. Well there's this there's an obviously stable core of players because as you noted like this was a veteran team, this is a team that's got a lot of Players who are listed as seniors or graduate students, who appear likely to leave. I mean, you run down the list. You've got three, starting offensive lineman, who fall into that category. You've got a starting wide receiver. You've got your starting running back at the start of the year.

You've got your starting tight end and I think your second string tight end, I'm fairly certain that be Orson is a senior who would be graduating and then on the defeat, the defensive side you've got I believe five of your starting defensive lineman, Rider Anderson, Demarcus Elliott Western Kramer, Alfred Bryan and Michael ziemba. You've got Mike and McFadden. You've got cam Jones, who are

your two starting line backers. You've got Brian Fitzgerald, who's your starting Husky and the reserve Husky and Marcelino McCrary ball. You've got Jaylyn Williams and retailer. Who there may be some question about them coming back. You've got Devon Matthews. You've got Rahim Lane and Juwan Burgess. Like that's most of your setup. Defensive player. I one moment. No no no.

Moans only technically a junior. So well one could come back but everybody else that I listed off there is listed as either a senior senior Plus or graduate student. It is certainly possible that a few of the players could come back because of the extra covid year, but that's a lot that is an awful lot that is just up in the air.

And I think the big concern I have right now is, you know, one of the reasons why people were excited about this year was that it A veteran team, yes, they suffered a lot of injuries but still you had players that had played together in the system for a while. That normally works its way out somehow on the field where the team is able to overcome obstacles and especially beat teams that aren't as veteran in in in, you know, just being around for a long period of time

and it didn't work. And with all those injuries you're thinking, well, if Indiana's got these younger players who are You know, I've been coming through the recruiting cycle or whatever you would think they'd be able to step in and at least do something about what's going on out there on the field and that really didn't happen at all and as the injuries took over and more younger players came in the team got actively worse. So that's what do you? Yeah. Go ahead.

Forget to other quests. Have a question for you. I mean, this is, you know, we're not, we're not Michigan, we're not Michigan State. I think we don't have. As deep of a kind of foundation, but in your history, you're a little more. Your better answer is kind of just historical questions off-the-cuff have, you would have you seen when programs that kind of our level or that Medium? Level go off a cliff like, are they recoverable? Because you look at Michigan.

It's like the narrative is kind of like all like, you know, they were there are starting to fall apart it's like but they you know they want against Ohio State like he had a good year this year. It's like dude, last year was a mess for them. But they also do a bunch of weird cancellation stuff like two years ago. In 99, you know, 2019, they were still mine and 4 6 & 3 in the Big Ten. Like it's it's very unusual to just go over in your conference. That's really fine off a cliff.

So to be like, so I'm just I'm curious, are there other examples of coaches in history who've gone over or fall off a cliff? And then brought it back because normally. Yeah, Indiana. It's like when that happens. It's either like Wilson's first year, or like, Mallory's last year. That's no. And I think it's an interesting point. I mean, look, it does happen, normally, it's not this far off. Cliff like, you know Northwestern is probably the easiest analog for IU in the

conference. I think northwestern's got a better infrastructure in terms of the way that they run their program under Fitzgerald. But you know, they've dipped out of Bowl eligibility and then come back. I mean that that two years ago versus last year was a great example that way. They were 3 and 9 in 2019. They came back when we're in the Citrus Bowl last year at seven and two, you know, we saw that happen with with Michigan State where they would have tremendous seasons.

You know, the, you know, so you go back to for instance, 2015, they the three years prior to that they went Rose Bowl, Cotton, Bowl Cotton Bowl and then they went three and nine and it was like what happened and then they came back and they went to the Holiday Bowl, the following year and won 10 games.

So, it does occur. I think the problem though, is all of those programs, when they've had a really bad year, they've had the infrastructure in place where it's like, well, everything went wrong and this is something that we're going to go back and rely on. There were only several greater years of success. I don't see that right now with IU and that that's a concern, you know? The I mean, Kenji kuriyama grounded. Us asked what excites you about next season?

And I don't know because not this year, you know, all those things that I rattled off like the, the Personnel loss, on the one hand, you can look at things and you can say, well, good that those guys didn't perform, but they did perform the previous two years. So I don't think it's as simple

as that. You have seasons like this where whatever is going wrong, you know, as much as this was a mediocre season, a disappointing season with that loss to Michigan State. They still could have gotten to a bowl, it would have been a minor Bowl but there the path was still there and they responded by essentially scuttling the ship and you know the whole thing took on water and you know, then suddenly you're losing to Rutgers by 35

points at home like this. So you do get these Seasons where things go. So, completely off the rails that it's almost hard to To separate what was actually bad versus. What was guys just kind of throwing their hands up and saying, I don't know what to do. And so, to answer kenji's question, what am I excited

about at this point. The only thing I'm really excited about is seeing, what structural changes are made to try to take the pieces that are still there and plug them back into something that they can believe in. And that's it. That's really, that's not a great thing to be excited about frankly.

Is what you're now, you're basically back to this idea that I don't know what to rely on, because Indiana is going into a 2022 season without a proven starting quarterback, without a running back, without any reliable wide receiver targets with the possible exception of DJ Matthews, coming back with an

offensive line. That hasn't shown the ability to block for not just this past year, but really, for the last couple of years and a defense that you spent so much time getting older Older and trying to put pieces together for a season where they could capitalize on the ball. Hawking nature of what they did in 2019 and 2020. You've lost all of those guys after a bad season, like what are you building back to at that point. So I don't know what I'm excited about.

And that's this isn't the first year that I felt that way coming into an offseason but it's been like a decade since I felt this way where I'm just, like, I don't know what I'm supposed to get hyped about for 2022, because what I see, right now, Now on the roster and in the coaching room has an inspired a lot of confidence in me, I mean, does anything stand out to you, Scott? I mean I've hit this a couple times it to me, it's a double-edged sword.

What I'm excited about is our schedule is a lot easier to start the season, right? So as an ice Runway but I'm nervous. It also makes me very nervous because to me, there's a ton of expectations for next season. Also, they, they can't start like two and two because you finished the season at Ohio. State home, depend State home to Michigan at Michigan State at her home to Purdue. I mean, that's a, your ending the season with your with, basically, what was the beginning part of our season

this year. So you have this Gauntlet hanging over you? They got to start good next year and I'm very nervous a lot of expectations because if you go like if you go out and lose at Northwestern first game of the year or you can't beat Cincinnati on the road. It's like there's you've got to get this figured out in the offseason. So yeah, I'm nervous about the easy schedule, start the year. They've got to get it done.

I'm also, you know, like you I want to see changes but it's also it's like I'm nervous again because you're basically asking Tom Allen is going to have to hit the transfer portal or find

guys somewhere else. But it's like that is completely against the his being of I stick with my guys that you're asking a coach now to on-the-fly kind of change his demeanor and change his way of doing things, but he's going to have to because like you said, we don't have a Quarterback going in the next year, the we can see a reliable quarterback, that's willing to have the offense to the Bowl.

You're going to basically have either an offensive coordinator, we're not interested in or a new one. Like there's just there's a lot of things that I don't like and you're having a coach change, a lot of his believe. He's going to change a lot of his beliefs going on the next

year. But the main thing that I don't like is I'm not sure how good this team is going to be, but to me, there's going to be not, the expectations are obviously going to be different than this season but there are Going to be real expectations to start next year because if you start off slow, or you lose one or two games to start next year, then I think everyone's going to think. Alright, 19 and 20 were the Mirage? Like this is the reality?

Yeah. No. I think there's a lot to that, and I think that there's a real question mark right now about what, like, what is this program, really? Because it's easy to, it's easy to forget that at the end of the 2018 season, a lot of people were very down Down on Tom Allen. Now they've lost their second straight bucket game, they'd had their second straight five and seven season. A lot of people looked at this team and said, Alan to be 5 and 7. I know, I know that's the thing.

It's like people but those were those were legitimate concerns at that point. And now, I mean, I don't think anybody conceived of the idea that I you would be to intent. Like the idea was the bar has been raised far enough to the point where that just isn't going to happen. Happen. Tom Allen has got something moving and so this this is we're both guilty of that. It was like we're Bowl. Sure the preseason like ours our floor is higher. Yeah, no question.

Our floor has been raised like, five wins is kind of our floor. You know, we got a lot of questions about coaching changes and I literally can't go through all of them. But let me let me tackle a couple that are representative. Well, first of all, So dr. Hoosier rights in is there any one thing I you can build on going into next year? I've got nothing after thinking about it for a while.

I think as you mentioned it's probably the schedule and how forgiving the schedule looks at the beginning of the year. That's not really something to build on per se, but at least softens the runway for you as you're getting ready to go into the season and I do think that counts for something because if you can get confidence under your players early much like this season, spiraled out of control.

Roll, last year, went the opposite direction because they started off with that win versus Penn State and suddenly they were rolling. And I think that does particularly with the with the teams that Alan seems to put out on the field belief. Self-belief really does seem to matter to them in a way that is maybe more important than it is, for other teams who have more of a reservoir of process as opposed to a motion. Beyond that.

I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that they would build off of gut feelings is from dr. Hoosier right now, is that they keep the guys who can recruit and turn over the rest of the staff 5 plus changes. So this is where something that you mentioned. I think makes a big impact on what is going to happen with this iut moving forward, which is what is Tom Allen believe and what is he willing to do to effect change? Because, you know, Allen with the success of 2019 and the

success. 20/20 really turned Elio into a brand. And this idea that this is a, it's a culture that Fosters love it, Fosters support, it Fosters picking each other up. And, you know, that's resonated I think with a lot of people, it's one of the reasons why everybody was so excited about

this team. It wasn't just that they had one, you know, however, many 21 games in the previous two years or 14 games in the previous, two years and had put themselves in a position where They were being taken, seriously, but it was that it was such an easy thing to root for. You know, people want the Tom Allen experiment to work. They want this motivational type of coach, who is, you know, gets a lot of comparisons to the Ted lasso character.

They want that to be something that works in college sports. And I get that. But this is the downside, like, it's easy to preach Elio on the and then you get a season where your two and ten you got guys. Ring during the season before the bucket game, like the week of the bucket game and you can clearly see just through a rudimentary evaluation of how the team is performing on the field that there are some significant inadequacies in the way that the team is prepared.

The way that the play calls are coming down. All of that. Well, what do you do then? Do you walk into the staff room and say guys, this is unacceptable, I'm going to have to let a bunch of you go and bring in new people, you know, if you look really closely, On the list of people that coach football for Indiana, the

assistant coach list. It is filled with people who have coached with Tom Allen at previous stops, you know, whether that is Darren Hiller who coached with him at Arkansas, State and Coach with him at South Florida, whether it's Grant heard who coaches them at Ole Miss, whether it's you can keep going down the list.

I mean, Cane wall Mac, when he was the defensive coordinator, I mean, he's the son of Alan's Mentor from a defensive perspective, you know, he brings in a guy from IMG Adam e that he worked with in the past. I mean, this is very much, a family affair, for Tom Allen and I'm very curious if Tom Allen looks at this and says I got to come in and I've got a essentially clean house and start over with new people that I don't necessarily know. I don't know if that's actually

in Allen's character. He may end up having to do it because it's clear at this point that changes have to be made, but it is a significant sea change from what Tom? Alan has done and said through his first five years. Yeah, it's just it's not normally, you don't normally see the culture of a football coach change much like, but this season as you were laying that out of kind of reminds you of.

Like if you start reading like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, fighting Richard Kawasaki, so you start reading all. This is great and it's good advice, and he really go and dig is ago, but he's declared bankruptcy three times, I'm like, yeah, it's like yeah, it's like the culture is great to you dig into a little bit like that's but you're right. I mean, it is, you know, in reality. What Alan and again, it's easy for you.

And I sitting here on a podcast and I'm in our house is not coaching football for the outside it but sometimes honestly, it's hard to see the forest for the trees when you're in it, you know? But but to me my advice would be of Allen asked me. Which he's not, would be, you gotta. Yeah. You've got a higher completely differently. You got to hire people. You don't know.

Hire someone is gonna push you like someone who's going to push you to go, you know, go against your grain it to really challenge a lot of your beliefs because it doesn't feel like he's doing that. But yeah, I mean pointe-noire, Ali football coaches. Don't Shane see pains this? This hard in their career and to be fair to Tom Allen. He did do that leading into the 2019 season. He went out and hired Kaelyn Devore as offensive coordinator.

That was not a pretty well it was not a Surefire higher that everybody thinks that it was I mean this was a guy who was the offensive coordinator at a Mountain West School who had had some success but there were some questions and that was a really good Higher by Tom Allen. The question is going to be. Can he go? Didn't do that again. And, you know, I think the the best way I could describe what's

happened this season. After thinking about it a lot is that you can lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Tom Allen from an organizational perspective. Because I think the most charitable reading is that he took it incredibly naive viewpoint of what was going to work, coaching wise, and player wise, into this season, you know, I think that last year's success under very weird. Circumstances that probably can't ever be fully repeated because of covid and everything else.

I you had a bunch of things go their way and not throwing those back every program. Gets those every once in awhile, we as we've talked about many times but I think those were misinterpreted, as items of success, that prove that what Alan had decided was right, rather than being accidents of circumstance that happen to play out in Indiana's favor. And, you know, I think that goes up and down the roster. I think it goes on throughout the the the coaching room.

A lot of the things that we thought worked worked. Not because they were what they were, but because of the circumstances that surrounded those things, and furthermore, I think that Alan brought a certain level of naivete into this season in terms of his evaluation of his own Talent on

the roster. I mean, I keep going back, Scott to all of those those comments from Big Ten media day and from the start of the Season, where Michael penix was throwing the ball better than he ever had and we had transfers coming in that we're going to really make huge impacts and you had a guy and Stephen Carr who was going to come in and be, you know, a top-notch back and none of those things proved true.

That isn't to say that there weren't some successes in the offseason in terms of players that were brought in or the guys that were, you know, coming back but it just feels like the expectations. Internally were way out of whack from what the actual reality was and ahead. Coach just has to be better and more realistic about figuring out what they've got and how they're going to go about

game-planning with those things. And that includes the people that are in the room with them making the decisions Yeah, I mean, the one of those, you know, part of this is coach, speaking of Coach never come out and say, Hey, you look like shit and practice like it's gonna be a rough season. They always going to have some coach think about how guys are looking really good and changing.

The the thing that again, I continue to go back to on this year where I feel a little bit duped is part of my expectations and me being kind of excited for the year was based on the fact that it sounded all indications were we were getting 100% penix back and if that was the case, then I felt like our ceiling was higher because He could drag things with him.

Well. Okay and it was, I thought it was either that or you were at least getting Jack, Tuttle, who had quarterback throughout the spring and summer and was in the system, you were going to have something. And it look, I think a lot of this is the reality that it wasn't just the players as an issue. It was also the systems that were being utilized, that were built around those players. Like there were a lot of inadequacies across the board. Anyway, go ahead.

Yeah. Oh no. Yeah and that's why like this is not on. This has nothing to do with penix himself. It's just he's unfortunately that the guy at the center of this, that, you know, it bothers me that the coaching staff either didn't test him enough in practice to to put him in a situation to see if he could succeed, if he was, you know, how he was going to play against a team like Iowa, or they did. And they just didn't see anything again.

From everything that we saw penix was not ready to play at an elite level this year. I think it's a fair statement. He just didn't look Look 100% in a variety of ways. And again, maybe that was maybe him at 70 per--. Give me that was our best option. But if that's the case, then. Yeah. You you gotta, you can't go in and just say he's great, he's gonna come back at a hundred percent. But that was the part that worries me, is?

It sounds like the little bits that I've heard, is that they kind of really didn't put a bunch of pressure on panics and practice. Because, and then he looks really good because it's like, he's placed be playing against no defense and that's, that's not great.

I don't know, I just, it feels They really miscalculated that and kind of gave themselves The View that they wanted to have of what penix like this is we want him to be 100% so we're going to create a view that looks like it and then we're going to be great and then it's like but now we're playing Iowa. Again, that's that's the real, that's a real defense that connects the tough place to play.

So that that misreading of, that really threw me off because it felt like we never had a quarterback all year. So again that bugged me. But yeah, it's you, you know, in a way Way too. If your Alan, this is a situation to you are. As you mentioned that the boat is taking on water, like you are an SOS mode.

Like this is where as you look at coordinators, you know, maybe this is where, you know, you take on a couple of coordinators on your staff who can bring players the transfer portal like a maybe you don't want them as coaches. But it's like, hey, if you got a quarterback come on and be offensive coordinator, you can coach the old life. Like I mean, this is where again, this is the thing that concerns me is there's really no history.

Or example of Allen, even this season is things are falling apart. He's standing by his guys Till The Bitter End, it's going to be a complete sea change to see Alan start doing things. Like, I'm just gonna get some transfers into take spots away from guys, who've been on my team like it's it's going to change Elio culture.

I think there's a way that you can still have Elio but also start doing some things you have to do to run a successful football program, it's going to be a tougher needle to thread but I worry that I'm not sure. Sure Allen's going to make all this is because, like I said, this is the point where it's like, hey, you got a quarterback you got a coordinator job on this team in my mind and this actually feeds into a question we had from Mike, see, big picture, where does Elio go from

here? The season seemed to prove that it doesn't mean much if you have poor coaching development, execution etcetera, sadly, it feels like the brand is kind of stained. How does Tom Allen turn this thing around? It's an it I think it's a valid and important question because it is so woven. To the fabric of Tom Allen as head football coach. This idea that I'm not just a football coach, I'm also a Lifestyle brand, you know, I mean if it's and and look,

that's that's happening a lot. Like I listened a couple of weeks ago to I think it was it was a South Carolina football game and they were going on in the last seven minutes about Shane Beamer installing this culture of Love within the Gamecocks locker room. It sounded exactly like the Elio sales. Pitch, but I think Mike brings up a good point. Elio is great when you're going eight and five, or you're winning, you know, six out of the seven games in a regular season.

But as happened in 2017 and 2018, when you don't go to a bowl, it invites. A lot of people to look at this and say look, this sounds like a great slogan but there's a bunch of teams going to the postseason and Indiana is not you're going to need to do. Little more explaining or maybe a little more tough. Love tle. Oh, perhaps, you know, to make us believe that this is actually a sustainable model and here we are again.

Also suffer you're going to and 10 and like when you well, someone in the balls, like that, it's like that. It's like, all right, where's Ellie? Oh well, and that's putting yourself up for and that's the big. That's the big problem this year is that a season that was fully, you know, sewn in the bed of elio, the Elio garden and ends with a bunion. No several guys transferring during the course of the Season. Not just at the end either like it wasn't just Javon sweatin.

It was also, you know, Tim Baldwin transfers in the middle of the year and get a couple of other players. You've got Tom Allen calling out his offensive coordinator in multiple press conferences. Even though he's not like specifically doing it by name about not throwing the ball enough, you've got him calling out, his quarterback in press conferences for not throwing the ball enough, you've got, you know, as you mentioned guy, Kicking another guy in the nuts.

In the course of the old Oaken Bucket game, leading to a 15-yard penalty, you've got a receiver, who's not even really making game attempts at getting first downs and things like that. I mean, it's just, it's hard to look at that team and think other anything other than this looks like every other team that doesn't really care too much about itself and that is the exact opposite of the Elio brand. And I think, Mike's right, like as much as the last two years, We're great evidence of hey,

this culture of elio can work. This is essentially the Yang to that Yin. This is the what gosh when everything goes wrong. You have to question, okay? What else is there besides the slogan? What else is what is the actual binding agent? Because it didn't seem to last through the acid test of things going, wrong throughout the course of the year and is, as Matt Blasco pointed out in, or at least asked in his question, let me get down to it here real quick.

As I mentioned, there were a lot of looking that up at this reminds. How does that? How does IU football recover from this? This wasn't a five and seven season that we ran into good teams. This was a season where they weren't competitive for the last five weeks and that's really what It's down to like uh I guess the only other thing. Yeah, go ahead. Like it reminds me very much

also as a fan. Here's my take is reminds me of God. This was like six or seven years ago or five when they had the Breakthrough. Like that was a big marketing slogan, like you and I just we lost our minds over that because it's like these are the games you got to break through. Like it's just it drove me bonkers and what do they stepped off of that?

And kind of went away like fine, you can keep Elio keep it on the front of the helmet but like to me Me just as a fan, like, let's step back from the Elio. Think don't get off that but like, let's just take it down a notch and like, I don't want to hear about it as much. We start winning again. Like if you start off rough next year, like I'm I'm not going to want to hear more Elio talk. I think that's also something your lifestyle brand that cracks me up. It's like that's that is a valid.

I was again with with marketing Alan Doug. Look you still have Elio but you gotta just tone it down until you start winning again because so it gets very very aggravating To deal with that kind of Pious, this when you're losing well, I wouldn't so much Terminus Pious - as much as I would look at it and say, that's right. That's right where you're right.

It's their look, there's a lot to be said in human psychology for small easily identifiable and, you know, slogans that are easy to latch onto in the locker room. Certainly, I think that a lot of successful coaches try to distill things down to a very small like core element that Layers focus on and that's it. And you know, every year we hear this with Alan like what's your one word for this year?

And look I don't like there's anything inherently wrong with that and in fact I think that to some degree maybe that has helped Indiana at points my big problem and I would actually divorce this from the Elio sloganeering and I would focus this on another aspect of the program is that I just I fail to see where the infrastructure is right now with this team.

That allows them to easily bounce back from stuff, not just overall with this season, but in individual moments throughout the course of games, you know, I've been harping on this for a while now. Really. I mean, this goes back to in the Wilsons 10-year and before, it's not like this is unique to Tom Allen but Indiana's teams always struggle with discipline. They always struggle with

penalties, they struggle with. I mean, there were the number of snaps that just weren't completed in the game versus Purdue. Made you wonder, like, do they practice snapping the ball? There's so many little errors that other teams that are successful. Maybe not more talented, but more successful.

Just don't make, you know, when you look at the Iowa's and the northwestern's, you know, and to some degree, even the Michigan State's so much of what they've done and what they've built their little mini Empires on has been focused on look, we're never going to out recruit Ohio. State were never going to out recruit Michigan. What we are going to do is make sure that we've got the fundamentals down, the make sure. Our special teams are top-notch.

Make sure that our our lines may not be the most physically imposing, but they block with great technique. I see none of that with Tom Allen's Indiana, I see, you know, last year, I saw a team that survived on in the early going explosiveness and in the late going turnovers and as many people pointed out, that's not really a sustainable model and you know, we were overly optimistic and where we

shouldn't have been in thinking. That maybe those things could sustain but when you have a season like this, where the turnovers don't come and the offense isn't able to put those explosive plays out there because they just can't block and can't keep plays alive long enough to do things then it really does return. My mind to the idea of I don't think the love is the issue. I think the discipline is the

issue and Allen through. Now, five years I I don't I haven't seen that particular aspect of this program Get better. And to me, it has to if Indiana wants to keep this sustainable. Because when we talk about those other teams that have bad Seasons, like I said before, they always have that to fall back on and they can make it look like guys gets. Let's let's get back to our fundamentals, I don't know what Indiana's fundamentals are like,

what like what are we hanging? Our hat on in a program. If it is Elio, if that's what you're hanging. Your hat on, I think we've seen through this season, that that can go off the rails very quickly. There needs to be something more technical. One more technique based that is the focus of what this program is doing going to blasquez question about like, how do you

turn this around? You know, the, I don't know if I do, if I have been don't have answers but the other piece that makes me very nervous, kind of the scary dystopian view is if you go micro and macro. If you take the Cincinnati game is kind of a microcosm of this season. Everything's going good. They're kind of on a roll and then you have the Mike McFadden targeting hit. It's like the defense never recovered from that and then it's like we're fumbling we're having Red Zone problems.

Like to your point. There was already some of those things happening before that hit, but it's like that targeting, hit happened McFadden's out. And then it's like, well, now we're just we're not allowed to have a functional defense, like now we just, we got to give up five straight, you know, scoring drives, but then if you go macro, you know, it's like that. Mike McFadden hit ended our season, but you go macro that slide started.

The Cincinnati game. Yeah. We beat Western Kentucky by 2. Like barely and then we didn't win again. It's like then that's what really frightens me is. We couldn't stop the mental slide in that game, fine like that happens to teams that you can have a play where it's like, it's just too much and like, it's happening in real time. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world, but to let that basically what feels like slide extend out for the rest of the season.

There's no stopping point where like, Hey, we're going to get our together for one game and kind of Bring It Back Together, you let it just. Into the abyss. That's what really scares. Me is, if you go micro-macro, like how do you slop that? Stop this slide from going into next year? I don't know. And I don't think again that keep on harp coming back to this, to me. It's not going to be changes

around the margins. You have to just almost have an entire seismic change of everything on this program, which is mind-boggling because it felt like we were going in the right direction, but it almost feels like we're starting 4.0. It's a blast is question. I don't know that. That's what scares me is. To me like that Cincinnati game is a micro of the macro of the entire year and how do you stop that?

Because that's the other thing we haven't shown like how do you stop this slide because Tom Allen hasn't shown that he can stop. The slide, we are currently in. So until that could they answered, I don't know. Well, the argument I guess would be twofold if you were taking the perspective of Allen or defending Allen and it would be a injury sent the thing off the rails, you lost.

Your starting quarterback, you lost your starting running back, you lost several key members of the defense and you know, what are you going to do? You've lost that many people. Now, you could just call this a huge.

Coincidence. Perhaps, I think the other argument that you would make in favor of the perspective that things aren't unrecoverable is that it was a very tough schedule and Indiana kind of got the Daylights beaten out of them in the first half of the season and just kind of lost their will to compete. And, and any coach would have trouble recovering a program that has, you know, so that suffered as many injuries and as many early crushing losses from

a, you know, a mentality. T perspective and look maybe there's something to that. I guess the flip side argument that I would make is this team was bad from the word. Go. You know the falling behind Iowa by as much as they did early in that game was not an accident because we've seen over the course of the Season. Like this was not, yes. I know. I was going to the Big Ten title game, but this is an Iowa team

that has. I mean, they lost to Purdue they, they've struggled in certain games, they're not the world. That they looked like in that Indiana game at the beginning of the year and at every point along the way you know yes Indiana was competitive against Cincinnati. Yes. They were competitive against Michigan State but they still

lost those games. And then when you look at the way that the players played in the season played out, it's hard to get very optimistic even if you wanted to take the injury thing into account because you're losing so much production going into next year as we talked about already. You're losing so many of the players that you were going to rely on this year. That didn't perform.

It's not like those players can, you know, have a deep think to themselves and just work really hard in the offseason and come back and get better. Many of those players are just going to be gone and now you're replacing them with unproven people and you still don't have the core issues of. Well, what's the offense? Like, how does that approach? Is the defense still good. Is that, you know, I mean it under Under Tom Allen, this defense has been consistently

pretty good. This defense got really bad over the course of the Season, some of that and much of that. On this podcast we've attributed to you know they were actually playing really well at the start of the year and the lack of offensive production eventually just ground their mentality into the dust but fact of the matter is like by the end of the season, the defense wasn't really defending anybody.

I mean it was pretty much open season whether you were Rutgers or Minnesota or You all those offenses had their way with this

Indiana defense. I have a hard time attributing all of that to just a poor mentality from the offense not performing and so it Scotland and I'm not, I'm not going, I know you're I know you're taking I'm not arguing with you on this but like to me the counter to the schedule argument would be I think it's it's somewhat Fair it's like the Rutgers game stands out as like a really hard thing to to navigate with the schedule but to me it's like all right fine.

The schedule was really tough to start the year you were. If that was your side, my point would be all right. Well, I will see you next year on October 22nd 2022 because next year, schedule starts off easier and like Michigan state was in a similar situation this year. They started eight know. So, how about you? I you next year, you have seven easy me. Quote, air quotes easier games to start the year before you get into the meat. How about you start six in one.

Like let's let's talk then it to me it's like I'm going to check out until and see if you can Art the next year for no. Yeah. And then we'll get interested. But it's like that's kind of, unfortunately, where you leave the fan base is if you're gonna get, I know, it's not you Galen. But, like, if you're gonna take those sides, like, all right. Well, then I'll see you next year.

Like, I'll just, I'll check out. And then, if you don't show up in those early games, and I'm out because like, I know, we don't have what it takes to beat Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan, State, Purdue Penn State. But you can still, if you start six in one next year, maybe you get the ball rolling downhill, and maybe you can beat Penn State at home, like who, Uno's like let's see how things roll. But yeah, it's like then you

again. That's where next year becomes a weird year where I'm not sure we're going to be good but there's pretty hot. There's higher expectations to start off really good. So you know as we kind of enter the home stretch of this podcast I'll say this I think that a lot of the questions have revolved around, you know what what changes are going to get made on this staff? And what is Alan going to do? Some have asked, you know, Do you move on from a lot of people.

Look at Kalin tube or look at came Wommack first of all, that won't happen, and I don't think it should.

I mean, here's the thing. I, first of all, it's a financial and possibility at this point it's a 34 million dollar buyout and a lot of people have said, well gosh, that was a foolish move by I you but I do think it's important to keep in mind that even if Indiana has what everybody assumed is going to be a disappointing season this year and finishes like six and six or seven and five if you look around the country at all of the Openings that are in coaching in

college football. Right now, you know, I mean, Florida LSU USC. Virginia Tech. I mean, there's several programs that are out there. I know it looks silly now to give that big of a buyout to Tom Allen, but if you really feel strongly and I think there's every reason to feel strongly about Tom Allen after 2019 and 2020, that this is the guy that you want to make sure that you keep the guy that you don't have to go hunt for a new coach.

Of course, you give that kind of in a Tension you, of course, you give that kind of a buyout, because that's the cost of doing business in college football. Right now mean, Michigan State, gave a much larger and more financially naked extension to Mel Tucker. We don't know if that guy's actually good. We know he had a good season this year with a bunch of transfers but we don't have that guy's actually good but you have to do that. Now, does it tie Indiana's hands?

A little bit. Sure. But I also think that as irritating as this season has been, you have to give Tom Allen sufficient credit for what happened in 2019 and what happened in 2020 to say, alright, Tom, we're going to entrust you with the program as up and down or and mostly down is Indiana. Football has been historically, we're not in a position yet where we are going to be a Destination type of job, where we're going to be able to go out and just hire whoever we want.

And you don't just throw away those two seasons and act like they didn't exist. And if you don't, give that kind of a buyout extension, you're probably not going to That coach because he's probably at Florida, Florida State, maybe maybe by now, if you don't do that, that said, Alan has got basically three years to play with to get this program back on track. So what does he need to do? The first thing, obviously, is he has got to get a better

offensive system in place. You know, the thing that's been noticeable about IU football in the Tom Allen tenure is that Alan loves to hire Fire basically a chief executive officer for offense and let that person run with it Allen either doesn't have the confidence in his grasp of offense to do things or just feels like, you know, he's a defensive guy. The offense needs to be left to the offensive coaches in some cases. I think that's actually an

admirable trait. You got to, you got to be aware of what you're not aware of in football, but he's got to do a better job of hiring, as you know, the mike deboard. Word hiring was not a good hire but it was somebody that Alan trusted and, you know, that offense was not great, but it also wasn't the worst offense in power 5 football. The Kalin de bourgh higher was inspired and in one year in one offseason the offense suddenly transformed into something.

It was able to win football games, the next Sheridan. Higher was the higher that you make when you feel like your system is up and running and you can bring anybody in. And train them up and he had done that on the, on the defensive side, like the cane Wommack, higher was kind of the same sort of higher it worked. There, it didn't work with Nick Sheridan. He has to realize that and he has to move on and it's nothing personal.

But this was, as I mentioned on several occasions, this year, this was among the worst offenses in the entirety of the power 5 and that's a real problem. And, you know, we need to go inside the numbers real quick on this Scott. And just a reminder that when Go inside the numbers. We want to use the power rank. Add Fang who runs the power rank gives out PhD. Level science and predictive elements around college football and college basketball, and you can take advantage of this as

well. You want to go to the power rank.com /. AC we've got bowl season coming up if you want to get, maybe a wagering Edge or just have a better understanding of what's going on in the college football, world and certainly during March Madness when basketball rules around. That's really where the And butter is at there's a guide that Ed puts out with the power rank. That is pretty good.

I mean it gives you a lot of insight information, a lot of a lot of thoughts and perceptions on game. So check out the power rank.com /, AC free newsletter, sign up for it. You won't regret it. Be sure to check out the power rank for some higher level analysis, on college, football and basketball. But anyway, looking at the numbers when I just want to the power rank, you'll see the numbers for. Are you offense? Just not good, right? That's all says, that's not good.

Not good. There's no numbers. But, you know, you look at you look at the grades right now. For this, I you team this year and it's, it's just it's so clear where the problems came into being with this team, you know, across and ironically, you know, this last game against Purdue from a yardage perspective. Just from a moving, the ball perspective was among the better games at Indiana had played, but across the course of the season, the passing game was just really bad.

Bad in so many games. So many different levels throughout the course of the year, the blocking was not good there and you know even Beyond just the basics of for instance the quarterback play for different quarterbacks played frankly, none of them looked good at any point throughout the course of the Season receivers struggled to get open. The line struggled to block, you have to hit the reset button on

that. Tom Allen has to realize that whatever he's done up to this point is what led to this and that there were signs of this Steer that blew up into full-blown symptoms this year so that has to be addressed. And I think other and it is a good start. Just real quick like to your point about like you just a realities of, you know, having to pay Alan what you pay. Like, there's also just a reality.

He has to understand too that this is just business, but if he doesn't fire Nick Sheridan, when you said, he has like a three-year window, it's like he's kind of cutting a year off his own window. If he doesn't do that this season is like, all right. You're down to two years. Maybe one year. It's like you're now putting your own self. It Risk. And if he doesn't do it, if he doesn't do that are often still bad next year. It's like the only other options. Like, all right, well then we

got start. Look, he's getting rid of out. I don't want to say that. I don't want to go there, but the he has to understand that to that. This is the order of operations is like a things go really bad. On one side of the ball as the head coach. That's what you replace. And that gives you that three-year window to kind of figure things out, but if you don't do that, you're kind of bucking the trend. And now, it really does gonna all fall on you.

Well, and look. And this is again, it's nothing personal with Sheridan. You know, this, that we went through the same thing. Doug Mallory, almost a decade ago. Where Mallory was the defensive coordinator, he's a legacy name in the IU program and the defense's were just awful and yeah, it like you do a couple of years of that. You see the things are not trending the way that they need to train.

You got to make a change, it's just the way that the business works and you know I think Alan above all else. Has to realize that in this goes back to the question or the thoughts that that Mike. See shared if Elio is your brand and you want to, you want to To put forward this idea that you have a specific style and approach to coaching football that's better than what you would get elsewhere.

You have to have some results that go behind that you're actually endangering that brand and you're endangering the Indiana football brand. By creating a situation where your system doesn't actually look like it results in any sort of successes long-term. Like if it's just flashed on the pan sort of stuff that doesn't have the same level of consistency Allen. As you mentioned earlier, has to start taking really hard looks at everybody.

On a staff and saying look we've been here for five years. What have we accomplished? And where is where? Things trending right now? Yes, there have been some recruiting successes. Those did not play out on the field. Yes. The team will probably be better. Maybe a couple of years. Now, but what you're looking at next year is going to be a young team that's going to need some veteran coaching leadership from people who have won at the

highest levels. And I think the thing that I keep coming back to Scott is Alan. I, in my opinion, has to go out and say, look, we have to get and pay for an experienced offensive coordinator. Who can come in and no BS, just rearranged what Indiana's offense does it? We've seen it happen.

Elsewhere in College football. There's no reason why it can't happen here, but it's going to require Allen going out and getting somebody who is already proven rather than trying to cultivate somebody from the ground up. Like he's done with all of his coordinator hires thus far except for Mike deboard. You go across the board. It's like all of them. I mean yes came Wommack worked out but Nick Sheridan. Didn't Kalin Deboer worked out

you know. The so he's actually technically I think had more successes than failures. I think the jury's still out on Charlton. Warren certainly, but you can't afford to take a dice roll on the coaching changes. You have to go out and get proven people that's going to cost money. But that essentially is the stratosphere that Indiana put itself in when it gave Tom Allen, the big contract. Indiana said, we want to be successful at football. We need to be successful at football.

You have to take those managerial changes seriously because honestly, if Alan replaces, the guys that need to be replaced right now with people. Who are similarly, not of a power five caliber. I think you're going to run into the same problems over and over again. And then look, I think Alan really has to dip into the transfer market in a way that he has not yet so far as a coach. There were some successes coming out of the transfer market this year.

I think, certainly DJ Matthews looked very promising. And then of course you got injured, you know, certainly I think Kramer and Anderson. We're successful relatively speaking Anderson in. Ocular there were some busts out of the Transformer, you're going to get that, but that is going to be the like, Steven car looked pretty good and it's hard to say if he was good or not based on how bad a line was.

But he looked serviceable. So, it is one of those situations where in the area that you're in, it is possible to right the ship relatively quickly. If you make the right decisions as you mentioned, you bring in coordinators who can bring in their own people and expand the network of players that you're drawing from. Indiana at this point. I don't think I can afford another season where they don't go to a bowl, just from a

perceptional perspective. Look, if you're trying to get people excited and you've got this relatively soft Runway to start the season. Next year, you have to take advantage of that by getting players in who can re-establish confidence. And you know, look I think to some degree were kind of seeing that with the basketball program right now and I you where the key players for IU, some of them are guys. That came back.

But the difference that Xavier Johnson, for instance, has made the difference that Parker Stewart has made in the way that those offenses. The offensive Rhythm flows, the way the defense goes all throat Miller cop in there as well, that is change the mentality in part of this team and that's essentially what's going to have to happen with IU football. It's a lot harder when you're replacing.

There's so many players in football, it's hard to do it, but I think the idea is, if you can bring in people who can push internally, that's going to get the guys. You are coming back back on board. Get them excited. You know, we've seen big turnarounds from year to year in college football. There's no reason why I can't happen again. But Alan has to put a better infrastructure in underneath or I really do worry about what Indiana would be able to do

coming in the next year. Yeah, and you mentioned to me that he's going to have a couple of years to do that but it's like it gets it gets late real quick as Yogi Berra would say it's like you look at 2023. We start the season at out. You know we have Ohio State Home nigger playing Penn State in October 7th. I mean, the seat that schedules get tougher. Like next year's schedule is set up to get us to a bowl and hopefully an okay Bowl. You know, it's just, it gets tougher later quicker.

It's just like, it's like you've got to get some, you've got to make hay next year. You've got to figure out a way to get done to your point, you don't. So you don't have time to groom another coordinator. You've got to bring some of you can get it done. My only request is he went through Deboer and deboard like can we just Let's go with somebody whose name, I Sheridan's nice and different. Like, if anybody's name starts with d e, or has afforded it like just your own?

Actually, you're not, you're not who were looking for here at IU, that's it. The whole things just like, it's so hard to keep them apart. That's your request. That's of all the things that's your request. Okay, we did have a question from from Keith, and this look, one of the things I want to say, this was a tough season on. Everybody was a tough season on players and coaches. There's a Season on fans as well.

The question we got, if players can enter the transfer portal, why can't alumni we provided sellout crowds only to witness yet another excruciating, Lee Bad season. Can't we transfer support to a school like Ohio State to give both fan bases. A better sense of perspective. I wouldn't want to do that to myself Keith but no in all seriousness. Thanks for the question. I do think the fans kind of got lost in the shuffle and and I, you know, for as much as the core.

Group that surrounds IU football, likes to bag on IU football fans and talk about how they're bad fans and they're not loyal fans. This season is an example of why there's not a lot of loyalty among IU football fans because the fans showed up. They showed up for the Iowa or the Idaho game, they showed up at the Iowa game, there were large numbers of IU people there they showed up for the Cincinnati game, they showed up for the Michigan State game and

they got nothing. You know, I've often said this is probably in power 5 football the leash rewarding fandom in all of power 5 because there have been so few successes. And so many disappointments over the course of the entire history of the program that, you know, even a Kansas made the Orange Bowl back in 2007. I think, our 2008, even a Vanderbilt has gone on runs where they've won eight or nine games a few times. Illinois has been to the Orange

Bowl, I think? Yeah. Illinois. Illinois is going to a Bowl this year, you know? I mean, Maryland's. Going to a Bowl this year record. That's another Point. Yeah. Sorry to your point of getting nothing like you're right. I want to talk with us for a couple minutes. I know we like, but the fans really got nothing because we showed up, we were there, we not only didn't get wins. We got a pretty bad game day experience like Cincinnati. Nobody and I, we don't want to get back into.

This is based on a lot of factors. This is this happens every year we play Ohio State played Michigan, the stadium gets busy, it's not a great. Perience. The lines are long. The concessions are not ready. It's like every part about it was bad and then you just get kicked in the nuts. The entire season of losing. So to your point like it wasn't just the wins and losses that were bad.

It's like I worry that, you know this is why it's tough being a fan is that when things are going good, we're not, we don't have the infrastructure to take care and have a good experience on game day. Yeah, it's it's not good. And this is why next year, I've said this before, like now I I want to hear word one about the fans next year. Like we did our time if nobody shows up for the first couple games, like it is all we are incomplete. Prove me mode now with this team for next year.

Well that's the thing. I mean this is the problem as was summed up by a couple of other people in comments about the amount of Goodwill that was burned this year. Yeah, because you had everybody excited, you had the entire offseason to get people excited and it wasn't just a gosh, they're disappointing. Finished. Five and seven kind of year. It was a everything went off the Rails. And the team was basically unwatchable for the last six games of the season and that is

hard to bring people back from. And and again, it's like when when there's complaints, about why isn't the stadium full, why don't people complain, you know, support our youth football more. This is why? Because there's just very little reward. The reward have course, you know, the best season. And I you football, the last 50 years happens when nobody can be in the stadium except for parents and families to watch the games. It's sad, it's disappointing, but it's also the reality.

And I think that when this program thinks about what it's doing, this is why I think it's why I you can't afford a foreign aid or five and seven season next year because the whole reason I have a successful football program is the revenue that you bring in from ticket sales from concessions, things

like that. And if you're putting out a subpar product, eventually people will just Be like I'm not going to go except for the diehards who frankly I think have largely been poisoned by the well that they've been forced to drink from for them for their whole lives that their their priority system is almost a little bit screwed up at this

point. I mean, it really is interesting meeting a long time, IU football fan, you just your mate, your brain kind of gets battered to the point where you lose sight of what actual successes and you focus more on what makes us feel good. You know, I mean, people love Tom Allen in this group because he makes them feel good because he makes it feel good to be an IU football. Fan in terms of like, hey, this guy's saying positive things and creating a positive atmosphere around IU football.

And that's really been a key part of the Allen era, but if you can't back that up with at least some semblance of results and worse, you end up with the season that is as bad as anything Jerry dinardo did as bad as worse than anything Cam. Cameron did I guess except for that first year when they went to an Nine. You create a situation where what you're supporting is more, just the feeling of IU football being good, rather than I you football actually being good.

So anyway, all that said out there, just there have to be not just changes made in the coaching staff or in who the players are. But there has to be a shift in

what this program emphasizes. Because what we saw at the end of the day with this season, is that this system when everything's going great work, Really well but when things got tough, this team really had a problem pulling together and that really does speak to maybe some kind of internal cultural issue that needs to be rectified before next season starts. And so when you look at next season, you talking about the fans and talking about support looking at it.

Now a little bit more intently, being a knife and four years. That first game is huge. You have Northwestern, you're at home. That's the lowest bridge to cover in the Big Ten. You have to win that game if you want to get fan sport because let's say yeah, I'm gonna do the thing that drives you nuts, the hypothetical Scott, if you lose that game, your next two games are at home against Idaho, Western Kentucky. Nobody cares. It's going to be. All right.

Well we beat them. Why are we meeting last year? And we sucked like No One's Gonna care about those games. You have two games on the road and then your home against Maryland. It's like at that point. Yeah. I mean, if you win both the Cincinnati Nebraskans the road, you might get a little bit of pecan interest but it's like, wow. But we already lost the one big 10 game. It's like, you have to start off.

The win against the team that people know is least a big 10 team, it's like, hey, we want a Big Ten game for the first time in 18 months. This is good. If you lose that first gave you may not get support because then after that Marilyn game at home you got, you know, Penn State and Michigan and Purdue. It's like it's just it gets rough again and then people are going to the weather's bad. So it's it is again, it gets late really quick here.

You've got to start off with a win in that game or else. I'm not sure how you get support back. I I don't have these it. I'm not as I'm not as wound up in that. I do think though you have to win seven games minimum next year. I mean because that like and in the schedule does set up to do that, this is where the question is coming. I mean, look, you're in the Big Ten.

The Big Ten is tough, it is tough to win games in the Big 10. But you do have a schedule set up where you should be able to win enough of those games if your program is actually tracking the way that it's supposed to be tracking what we're worries me. That Maryland finished four games ahead of Indiana. In overall wins this year. Rutgers finished three games ahead of Indiana, and overall wins. Nebraska had more overall wins than Indiana. This year. Indiana finished the year as the

worst offense in the big tent. They finished with double-digit points, scored in conference games, double digits, not triple like everybody else double digits. So I'm less worried about where the winds come from.

Because if you lose to Northwestern and beat Michigan, nobody cares about the Western game at that point, as long as you finish with a winning record, and look, I think the idea that you're going to have a bunch of fans in the stands, you'll get your normal 45, 46 thousand for that opening game. I do think that's where it matters because if you come out and you look like, you don't know what you're doing. Why would anybody hop back on the bandwagon at that point?

So anyway, I don't know if we answered any questions effectively in this podcast, Scott. I mean, outside to send, this is why this probably won't be our last football podcast of 21, because we got to wait and see, like, what changes Tom Allen makes, you know, there have to be some changes. They just have to be, you can't go through a 2 and 10 season. When you started the season ranked 17th and say, well gosh, we had a lot of injuries and things were tough. We do.

We're going to run it back next year and we'll get it right that time. Like I just don't think that we're Indiana's at as a program, I don't think that's acceptable right now and you said something to you talk about coaches. Like there's a long Litany of not great. Are you football coaches like Bill Lynch who One who never had a season where they didn't win a big 10 game, right?

Like that's unfortunately Tom Allen has put himself in kind of fun, you know Wilson did it but it was his first year but even he did it. But there's there's not a lot of bad coaches have been through. I you football and not all, you know, most of them have found a way to win one big 10 game a season have to go over. Is you're putting yourself in pretty bad. Elite cat territory?

Yeah. I mean it's something that it's really jarring when you put it in those terms because if you go back and Get the seasons, where Indiana only one there like 10, big 10 games, you got 20 21, you've got 2011, you've got 1995, which I mean Bill, Mallory had one of these seas. That was kind of the clue that the Mallory thing was over. You got 1984. So we've got four, you've got 1973. Which was Lee Corsos first year and then you got to go all the way back to 1961.

So, you know, that's you're talking about five seasons in the last, Almost 60 years where you didn't win a single game in the Big Ten and that's not to say that, there weren't a lot of terrible IU football program, you know, during those intervening 50 years. But this is going to be on a special list of teams that couldn't figure out a way to win a single Big Ten game, and that is.

And again, I go back to when you look at this year, again, the numbers like this might be the biggest Point, differential, like, not only do we not win a game, like, at least if you're a Nebraska it's like, well, I saw a joke, like putting a brass key in the big tent, Allegan you don't to be close like, All their games are like within three points. You know that that's the other thing that might get lost with

this year. There were only two games where we theoretically, could have won Michigan State in Maryland. Like, and in neither of those games, I think, did we have a chance to win the gate in Maryland? We needed a, I guess in Michigan, say, we had the ball. We would have scored it like but in Maryland we never had the ball where we could have taken the lead, I guess.

And what I have to go back and remember whether we had on-site kick to get it, but it's like, you had your two games were Even had a chance to win the rest of them were just complete ass kickings, just getting your brains beat in. There's not even a world where it's like a discos different in that goes, like, you have to say, 85 things go different for us to beat Rutgers, which is mind-boggling. That's, that's the scary part of this is.

I bet some of those Mallory, the Mallory year, I bet we were more competitive and more games. Like, that's the really scary thing is. You only had two games that you even had a shot at making one? No, that's the truth. I mean, you go back, you go back to that. 1984 season, which was Mallory's first year that team competed like, it wasn't a good

team. There was not a lot on the roster but that team competed and even the 1995 season were Indiana. When towing eight, I mean, they lost by 72. Illinois. They lost by nine at Iowa. They you know, they they didn't That season. Kind of went off the rails in a similar way but they weren't getting they only got blown out in a couple of games that year. Unfortunately, one of those was Purdue that was a pretty bad bucket game that year but it's just jarring. And this is where I think a lot

of fans and ourselves. I think are just I'm cautious because everything that we saw this year from the results to the way that the player is reacted or didn't to the frankly kind of cluelessness of the way that the plays were being called and the games were being conducted in the overall training and development of players everything points to

this being real bad. Now I think we're fortunate, we're fortunate, and this is where I, this is where my Paws comes in. And we're going to finish the podcast after this. We're fortunate that this is probably the easiest era in college football to hit the

reset button. Change what your program is all about and get back into a competitive landscape if you're smart enough to do it. And if you're able to, you know, if you have the financial wherewithal to go out and make the changes that you need to make will Tom Allen, be able to effectively do that and I don't know the answer to that question and that is kind of frightening. I'd like to think so.

I'd like to give Alan the benefit of the doubt and say, look Inherited a roster that had some problems with Kevin Wilson. He took a couple of years and then he was able to elevate that program to two of the most successful seasons in Indiana football history in years, three, and four. I don't know what to make of the fact that with so many people back and with his hand-picked coaching staff, he then goes to and 10. I'd like to think that that's

the outlier. As you mentioned, next year, is really going to decide, which one of those was the outlier, and that's why I guess I'm a little ambivalent on definitively saying what my Things are going into this offseason because so much of my feelings right now are just like I'm I am essentially keeping everything at arm's length because I don't know. I have yet to see any evidence from what we saw this year that things are going to get better.

But I also think that if Alan is smart in the way that he handles this offseason, he can make the changes that can at least get Indiana back on its feet back to a bowl and then kind of get this program back. On track but a lot of its going to depend on what happens in the next two to three months. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, all that optimistic note, first of all Scott, we've been doing this for we've been doing this for what 12 13 years now with football and gosh, it's

tough. You know, the last two years were so much fun to talk about and this year was just so much, not fun to talk about that, but I appreciate you sticking with Me throughout the course of the podcast season and talking about everything. And I really think that ultimately, it's, these are the kinds of Seasons that make this hobby that we do kind of an interesting one, because we don't have to do this. Like, we're not getting paid

much. I mean, do we know and most of that is just kind of like, hey, here's, you know, here's some ad reads and stuff like that. It's not like we're getting a salary. This is not our full-time jobs, or anything along those lines. So it is Of the labor of love, more than anything else and I appreciate your alarm on Sunday morning. Hey thanks. You gotta put 8 a.m. on the Sunday after Thanksgiving so that we could podcast I did as well.

I was already up the kids made sure of that, but, but thank you. And I'd like to thank all of the folks that have listened throughout the course of, not just this year but previous years, all of you who take time to write questions on Twitter. I wish we could answer all of

them. I've actually tried to save some because I want to see what happens in the next couple of weeks and when we come back and do our next football podcast, Cast, we can talk about those perhaps in more detail, maybe, but we really appreciate you folks taking the time to listen. There aren't a whole lot of places where you can regularly talk about IU football, honestly, and we've always tried to make Crimson cast a spot for that.

It's gotten us into trouble sometimes, but we've tried to do that. I think that you folks is IU football, fans deserve it. It's certainly cathartic and therapeutic for me to have not just Scott, but other people to talk through the thoughts and feelings that I you in genders with its football program, So thanks for being along with us on this ride. I wish it had been a better one. We had all had dreams of, maybe a Florida bold or at the very least, like Las Vegas or the Music City Bowl.

Now, there's nothing. Now there's an off season of discontent, and all I can say is, we'll be back to talk about IU football later on in the winter and will certainly be back to talk about is football next year. Yeah, no, I Echo all of that. I'm always it. Always warms my heart. We see stuff on Twitter, like, I got to write back to him. A chronic, Hoosier was like that. Taking us for just giving us a place to listen to IU football talking it's it is nice to hear.

Like you said we do this as a labor of love like we don't we don't really make any money. We do this because we like it and it feels like your needs to be an outlet for me. We still do basketball. Like we're still going to be talking about basketball is kind of what started this. But you know, it felt like there needs to be an outlet for

football. I feel like we built a nice structure here and I it always warms my heart when people come up and they say they listen to it you know thanks for do with it. It feels very much like we've Bit in some kind of like weird p.o.w. camp where it's like, oh, thank you so much for talking about this. Like, there's somebody out there like me who, who watches this and listen to this and but II, it's it, do it in. Like I said, I've always this podcast.

Has always kind of been for me a way to a get things out. But also, I thank you, man, for doing this with me because my my feeling is always, I can't wait to hear what Galen thought about about that, whether it's a win, whether it's a loss, whether it's that like it, that never /. That's always kind of the ethos of me. And the podcast is like I want to get my stuff out. I have my rants but I always want to hear what you have to say it. It's always good. And I always leave these feeling

a little bit better. Maybe not this season, but we shall see ya. Now, look, I appreciate that. And it's the IU football is kind of like this epic Bartok Saga, you know. It is. It is like, it's like the Canterbury Tales just with a lot more losing. And it's always fun to talk about it. Even if the actual product isn't necessarily fun, I'm really curious to see what happens.

I care very deeply about IU football as a program and I care very much about our fellow IU football fans and I would like them to experience Joy. In watching IU football just as I too would like to experience some Joy, you know? And it's it just becomes tough in these sorts of situations and unfortunately, it's these sorts of Seasons that feel like the rule rather than the exception and this is almost like a really sad throwback to the the 2000s, which I still maintain.

Might be the worst decade. And I youth football history where you get to the end of the season and you're like, I don't know where we're am. I supposed to draw the Hope from like, you know, where Where's the infrastructure that I can lean on and say it's alright. I know this season stunk but we're going to be back, I don't know what back is with IU football at this point but we'll keep keeps them Faith. The Tom, Allen's got a plan and is able to execute it and we'll

keep some faith. That are you football. Just had a really unfortunate year and next year might potentially be better. I'd like to see some evidence of that before I get excited again but you know we'll see what happens. Anyway, Scott is always. Pleasure will be back talking basketball after, let's talk basketball after Syracuse will be back, probably Wednesday or Thursday night or Friday night of this upcoming week. Big win for the Hoosiers last night against Marshall.

Big win for the women, as they knocked off. Miami, a good start to the season for both of those programs. And, you know, for those of us, for those of you who only know, Crimson cash from football, we have basketball coverage. We've done that actually longer than football coverage. That was the first thing we started doing back in 2008. So we look forward to talking

with you about all that you can. Please check us out on Crimson cast on Twitter or you can check us out on Facebook as well for Scott. I'm Galen, thanks to all of you from the bottom of my heart for another ayehu, football season for all your contributions. Bring back the Bison will catch you folks on the flip side. So everybody