Ep 1239 - Indiana Pacers Game 7 Preview

You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson cast in another crossover episode with Right Up Meridian. This is where branding in the podcast were there you go. That's that's what I like to see. I've got minor in the other room, but I got got multiple of those actually, but no, we're talking Pacers.

The folks asked and we responded both Scott and I were at Game 6 and want to talk about that want to talk about what's going on with this series just in general, it has been Scott. It's one of those things where the Pacers, the last time they were in the finals, of course, we all know was 2000 and this is a special moment for Pacers fans. What's been increasingly fascinating is how much of a special moment these finals have become.

For like most of the observers that watch the NBA for a living, the number of people who have talked about how special this series has been, how unique it's been, how exciting and, and back and forth it's been has been really fascinating. You know, because I think you rarely get an opportunity as a fan where it's when it's your team that's part of that kind of

an environment. And I think that that vibe, I almost feel like we've, we've now got the chance to really talk about that as well as everything else and kind of just think about it and, and, and consume it internally a little bit. Because it's just been one of those series where you could you, you could go to either emotional extreme, you could kind of drift between the poles.

But at the end of it all, regardless, this has just been a remarkable experience for everybody involved, both fans of either team and also just neutrals that were looking for good basketball. I'm trying in life with my kids, I try really hard to just stay in the moment and enjoy the moments 'cause they go by really quickly. I'm doing the same thing here with this Pacers run, because

you're right. I, I, one of the calls I made to you a couple of weeks ago or right, we made the finals, was that, you know, something along the lines of, you know, I, everybody else seems to get titles like I, I feel like I'm not deserving of one as an IU football, basketball Pacers fan, Like that's not, that's not for me. And it's like this really could be my turn. It's it's wild to think, but also you, you hit on the magical run that you know, you and I are, are obviously sports fans.

You see these runs that teams go on like the the Patriots had early on where, you know, the first time they come out of nowhere at the time a backup quarterback, we didn't know they have the tuck rule game. And it's like, man, what a magical run that would be for that. Like that would be fun to be on that ride with the fan base. And it's weird to look up and be like, I'm in the middle of this ride. And by the way, I was having lunch with someone today. It's like it's it's been a long

one. Like like Dave's Achilles was middle of April like that. That was still the playoffs. Like we had just hired to freeze when this all started. It's insane how long this has been going. Yeah, it, it really is a marathon if you were in the like in the midst of it all. And and certainly it's, you know, just one of those deals where we'll we'll talk about it more in depth as we talk about the game and everything like

that. But it has felt like we often talk about how you get past the final four and the sports really slow down. And this has been the exception, I think for for Indiana Pacers fans and and people who are interested in the team have gotten interested because it is June 20th. This series is going to be ending on June 22nd and you're three months from the start of training camp. I think at that point it it's, it's fascinating how it closes down that calendar and makes

everything just last longer. It's been, it's been quite an experience anyway and. Along real quick, along those lines of the the calendar, it was Zach Lowe who mentioned on his podcast, I think it was about the Warriors this year when they went out early and he was talking like a Warriors executive and the executive's kind of joking is like, dude, I, I don't know what to do in May. He's like, he's like, he's got joking. Like, is this, is this what the

Hornets do every year? Like these guys just, they just have May and April and June off like have the Wizards. Is this there's a world where you can just be in the NBA and have May plans? Like what the hell is this? Yeah, it is it. It is remarkable how you can get a culture to it if you're a successful franchise consistently or not, as the case may be.

So before we dive into the meat of things, just a reminder were brought to you by Home Field apparel or a place to go for the finest in fashion and fabric within not just the college landscape, but also the professional landscape. They did some great work combining Pacers and racers and putting Boomer in a car and and selling some stuff at the team store. And of course they've had Pacers gear, they've had Colts gear. There's a ton of stuff up there.

Indy 500 gear. Head over to home field apparel.com. Use the code HOME 2-3 to get 15% off your first order. Go do that now and you will not regret it as they've had some amazing merch over the course of time. I know. We want them to buy now but maybe wait until Tuesday because Hopefield comes out with stuff they they might have championship gear like. I would hold on to that first

order of purchase code. Just get your cart ready and then fire on Tuesday. As always, Scott is wiser than me in these things, so listen to what Scott has to say. Anyway, let's let's talk first about Game 6. So, So you are a season ticket holder and you had planned on getting tickets to all of the playoff games? I am. I am. They they just, they give them to me and then charge me. But yes. Well, but I meant, but you could have not bought them or you could have sold them or

whatever. I'm not a season ticket holder, so I've been having to kind of snipe tickets as they've come about. I had the opportunity to buy tickets for a game in the Finals and that was Game 3. And I thought, OK, I'm going to do that. It's expensive. But my rationale is kind of twofold. A, I've never been to an NBA

Finals as a fan. And the intensity, especially at a place like Gainbridge Fieldhouse, which is already kind of notoriously loud and and, you know, vivacious and boisterous, I figured, well, that's going to be a really dynamite combination. But then be the last time the Pacers, who are the NBA team that I have rooted for my whole life, were in the Finals was 25 years ago. And who knows if any of us have 25 years moving forward. So, you know, the idea was I I want to get to a game.

So I chose that game knowing that that was likely going to Take Me Out of financial contention to go to four or six if necessary. Then 5 happens.

Therese Halliburton goes out injured and tickets dropped off a Cliff. Price wise, I I still wouldn't classify the price I paid as cheap, but comparatively speaking, it felt like a a relative bargain to be able to go and have the the pleasure of watching what might have been a decisive game six in the NBA Finals for, you know, under well, for for whatever price I paid, which I won't talk about on the on the podcast here, but VIPVI, yeah, I mean, that's the VIP content. That's right.

Yeah, Let me talk you. Let me walk you through my my. We show our credit card statements every month. That's a really boring. I want to. Talk about in the Game Time app and how I bought. By the way, I kind of recommend the Game Time app over some of the other ones. I got to say that's been I've IA hat tip to to Stefan Krisnik for turning me on to that one. That's been a that's one I recommend everybody potentially

download. So anyway, so I buy the tickets and I'm like, OK, you know, going to go to this game, going to try to see what happens. I don't know that I was going in hopeless or helpless or feeling like it was going to be a lost cause, but I know a lot of people were very trepidatious about this game, which is why tickets dropped.

Some of it was scalpers, but I think some of it was perhaps Pacers fans not wanting to watch what looked like it might be an inevitable end with the way that Game four and Game 5 went. So that was where I got to, you know, hey, let's go to the game. Let's, you know, let's enjoy this. Let's have one last ride in Cambridge Fieldhouse. Like what was your mentality going into this Game 6? I was definitely one of the trepidatious ones. You know, I've been positive throughout this whole series.

I I think the Pacers are a really good team, but I've also been very honest with myself. I think the Thunder are a really good team and I've we have some stats where it's like these teams stack up just they are very similar and the stats prove it out. But it, it, you know, you, you, nobody knew what we were going to get from Halliburton coming into Game 6. And, you know, we saw it last year in the Eastern Conference finals. They were gamey against the Celtics, but it's like they were

missing that gear. You could tell when Halliburton didn't play those last two games at home. And you know, it's, it's funny. It, it, it feels like at times the Thunder have figured out the Pacers and then they haven't it, it felt again after game five. It's like, oh, they they kind of they they that the Pacers got within 2 felt like the Thunder exerted their will and you know it. It did feel that the narrative kind of felt to me like, all right, the Thunder are really this great team.

This is a moment where they're just going to take it and be like, we are not giving you any room to breathe and you're not going to have your starter. So I went in with my son, You know, for the most part we were thinking it's a, it's a horrible again, I'm not playing. So doesn't matter what I think. But it's like I, I don't need to, I don't need, I'm allowed to have doubt. But our, our thought was kind of it's a win win. Like if the Pacers like best

case scenario, it's a win win. But as I had told you, I told my son he was in the same mindset. It's like, you know, if the Pacers lose, that's going to suck. But not everybody gets to be in an arena when a championship is won and a trophy is hoisted. And there's something unique about that. It would have sucked.

I would have not enjoyed watching Thunder fans go nuts, but it's like that that is something unique in a sports event to be at. So I was kind of like, all right, well, worst case scenario, it's not awful. So I went in with that mindset and I, I would say that the feeling in the arena definitely felt a little trepidatious. Like there was kind of excitement that it wasn't as electric, I would say as game three or game 4 where you just felt like the crowd was ready to pounce.

And then of course, the Pacers go down like 10-2 and there's kind of like a oh, like, like, but then the Pacers came back and like, and then it felt like right away the fans clicked in and it got super intense in that arena. Yeah, I, I felt like the crowd ramped up like right as the starting line UPS were going. But before that I was a bit concerned about the atmosphere and even coming in. Yeah, I I noticed. A lot of Thunder fans.

There were, well, there were a decent number, although honestly, I was sitting up in the relative, relative cheap seats. There were not nearly as many as I thought there were. There were more than there were for game three. But even walking in, like I parked and walked to the arena about an hour and a half hour, 15 before tip, I just decided to eat at the arena.

There wasn't going to be enough time to go to a restaurant and it did kind of feel like a, well, we'll see what happens kind of attitude amongst Pacers fans. But there didn't seem to be the kind of energy and excitement that you saw leading in, especially to game four. And certainly you understand why with what we saw in Game 5.

But one of the things that I thought and one of the reasons why I decided that I wanted to go to the game was as we've talked about in various stages of these playoffs and as we've witnessed the Pacers being on the other side of.

And at least in one instance that I can think of, it's hard to really get your head wrapped around what a team can bring to the table in a an elimination game where their backs are against the wall and how difficult that can be for an opponent to deal with in the moment. I really did feel like this was a Pacers team that yes, they had had a a bad Game 5, but they still were in it in the fourth quarter until they kind of self destructed.

They played a great 1st 3/4 of game four and then essentially got outplayed a bit at the end. But you and I were exchanging voice memos the it'll be in the lead up to the game where we were talking about how you know, from your perspective, it's like the Thunder are just the better team. You know, it looks like they just kind of solved the Pacers. This was not just Scott talking, folks.

This was also something that we heard Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe mention on the podcast that they recorded after the game last night, where it just felt like something had. You for not comparing me to like Stephen A Smith there or something? I would never, never do that to you. But but it did feel like perhaps the Thunder had flipped the switch and at that point it felt like, well, they, they were just the better team in this series And they that's how it works sometimes.

But I, I really did feel like the Pacers were going to win going into the game yesterday. I wasn't like boisterous about it because you never totally know and a lot of it depending on what happened with Tyrese Halliburton and his injury. But we've seen I I I point back to the Knicks in game five of the previous series where the Pacers are up three one, they could have been up, they could have swept, you know, the way

that it went. They go into Madison Square Garden and for the first time, like the Knicks looked truly dominant in that series and they beat the Pacers handily. And it's like, where did that come from? Now? Did that carry over to the next game? No, it did not. Pacers got their legs back. You know, the Knicks, that was kind of the last gasp to some degree. But those scenarios are always very special in sports and especially when you have these series.

I think especially with basketball, it doesn't really stick out as much in hockey because because the teams are generally more even, it doesn't stick out as much in baseball because baseball just operates differently in terms of how the games go. But I I really did think that if they could get some good shooting, they had a real chance in this game. And if they got anything out of Halliburton, ironically, they ended up having a great game.

They dominate Oklahoma City and they didn't get a great shooting game, as witnessed by that O for 9 start that they had at the beginning of the game. You know, the, as I heard one person talk about, this was a game the Pacers absolutely dominated and they shot what, 4243% from the field for the entire game, which is kind of nuts.

But but Scott, as we look at the stats, as we look at the way things went, you know, the overarching thing for me in this game was, was essentially there were really two things. A The Pacers defense, as has been pointed out in numerous places, just played at a level that I have not seen them play for extended periods of time against Oklahoma City.

They've done it in spurts, but the way that they clamp down on Oklahoma City early and, and regularly to me was the the the thing that changed it. And it took the Pacers offense a while to catch up. But the fact that it, you know, the Pacers offense didn't get going essentially until the 8 minute mark of the second quarter in any meaningful way, and they were still leading by a point at that stage illustrates how good the defensive effort was from this Pacers team.

The the thing with the defense, you know, I'm going to, I want to answer my own question, but I want to ask it back to you is it's interesting because I, I've heard this talked about a little bit that, you know, there there's not outside of Nesmith, there's not like the, oh, that's a lockdown defender on this team. And yet the defense has just gotten better as the playoffs have gone along. They've been a better defensive team. You know, I look at it as a couple of things.

I think one, it's coaching. I mean, you just, you see, you know, they, they, you saw Legler kind of break it down a little bit last night. You know, that the Pacers changed up the way they were playing defense. They were kind of swarming the middle like the Thunder had been doing, just not letting the Thunder get to the paint. I also thought what was interesting is they really weren't pressuring the ball full court like they had in previous

games. And what I thought was interesting with that was the Thunder did the same like the Thunder kind of like, well, if you're not going to press, we're not going to press. It's like, OK, great. Like what Halliburton bring the ball up like the in in a weird way, it's like the Thunder were kind of mirroring whatever we were doing. The other thing with our defense is, you know, and and it's the NBA. Everyone's playing hard, but there's like a next like a a

McConnell level. We'll call it the Pacers. Just everyone's busting their ass at all times and you see a couple of plays where you know the Pacers get fast breaks because the Thunder are running back, they're not sprinting back. And the Pacers just, they were going after everything and diving after everything. And, you know, in a weird way, it's kind of been the way the series is gone. It's like the starters get going and they kind of slow down. It's like McConnell comes in.

It's like just a juice of energy. But no, I'm, I'm with you on the defense. I just find it interesting that it's not like you have, you know, two or three, you know, Dort and Caruso like the Thunder do. It's much more of a team concept and it's based on effort and coaching. Yeah, that's a great point. I I think that I noticed the

lack of full court pressure. I also noticed, like if you go back to game four and you look at what the problems were for the Pacers down the stretch in Game 4, like, you know, when they they turn the corner into the fourth quarter, the Thunder really extended the defense like up 35 feet or so. They really made it hard. You know, the Pacers had a couple of turnovers just off of handoffs because they couldn't get the ball anywhere. They couldn't pass it anywhere.

And the, the Thunder were, were weirdly passive defensively, not just with that, but as you mentioned, with the lack of full court pressure and the, the, the move that Carlyle made, you know, I, I couldn't, I, I, I don't know. And I, I honestly, I didn't see his post game quotes to see if he answered this specifically, but that move, was it for fatigue purposes? Was he trying not to tire his guys out? You know, was it a situation where he felt like, well, we can really clamp down?

Like, we're less interested in stopping the guards from dribbling the ball up the floor, and we're more interested in stopping the guards when they penetrate into the paint, you know? But it is interesting that Oklahoma City decided they were going to mirror that because, again, it was a counter punch as opposed to a punch. And especially, as you mentioned, with Halliburton clearly injured. I mean, he only played 23 total

minutes in the game yesterday. And with, you know, TJ McConnell clearly being an an excellent player, but also a guy who you can to some degree overwhelm and, and, and put in a difficult position in terms of not being able to pass the ball or not

being able to dribble. It just was kind of an odd choice by Oklahoma City. And what was really fascinating from the Indiana side was how effective it was at cutting off Shay Giljus, Alexander and Jalen Williams from the very things that it made them so successful in the fourth quarter of game four and pretty much all of Game 5. Like they they essentially cut off the supply lines, dared the Thunder to shoot from three and the Thunder could not hit shots

from three. I mean I think in the 1st 3/4 they only had. Yeah, the the stats are like you almost have to just find a game stat that only has 3/4 because the fourth quarter was all garbage time, which I want to get to. I'm yeah, fascinating thoughts about that, but. Yeah, if you go, if, if you go through and look at the, you know what the Thunder made, they made two threes in the third. They made 0 threes in the second. They made 1/3 in the first.

So they had, they had three total threes. And it wasn't that they weren't taking them, although they didn't take a huge volume, I think for the game they ended up taking 30 threes, which is I guess a decent amount. But they hit 26 percent, 26.7% on the game. Like the Pacers can defend that way. They can. It's like a quasi zone, but with manned principles and Sprint out rotations. And you're really covering a lot of ground because if the Thunder cannot hit at a 40 to 45% rate from three.

The Pacers just have more bodies to throw at things and they can switch off so that they're not just locking them hard on to SGA all the time. They can use Siakam, they can use Turner. It it was a really effective defensive scheme. It kind of felt like a little bit of a break glass in case of emergency approach because it's not anything that we saw the Pacers do in this series up to

this point. And it reminds me a lot of what happened in the what was it Game 6 of the Pacers Knicks series where they switched from having Kneesmith on Brunson like they had for most of the time and threw Nemhardt on him. And suddenly Brunson was like, I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing in this circumstance.

So like, again, as you mentioned, Rick Carlisle, the way that he coaches and the strategy, I, I heard on one podcast, it's like, this is a guy who like he realizes all the trade-offs and he makes trade-offs depending on what he thinks going to be the most advantageous thing in the moment. And it was clear, like defensively, this made the most sense.

And he got rewarded very early, relatively speaking, in the game because the Pacers finally got their offense on track and they were able to get a a a huge lead, which made playing defense in the third quarter much, much easier. Well, and they got a couple threes to go down. You know, you you had top end shooting well from three. You had, you know, turn. That's not Turner Halliburton shooting well from three. Turner is a different story will

get to him as well. You know, Nemhard had a couple of threes go down. You were just and they were pushing the pace like they so many times in the playoffs, the Pacers have used their defense to kind of get things amped up and get the pace going in this way. It was just they were kind of getting their offense to get the pace going and they just they pushed it and they were just pushing it and kind of green light shooting all over the

place. And that is the thing with the Thunder that, you know, if you can, the Pacers had a trouble where they keep getting down. They have to come back from, you know, 12 or 13 down. The Thunder just aren't a good three-point shooting team. I mean, they've they've had some real stinkers in the playoffs in these finals. I should say game five, they were what, like 2 of 16? You know, in this game they were two of 20 going into the third,

going into the fourth quarter. 8 for even 8 for 30 at the end of the game is not awesome. You know, the Thunder don't really have a way to get back from a 15 point lead if you can get up by that much. They have to do it with defense and twos and they kind of take their time. So it it almost becomes a they don't have a way to do it. And just the Pacers haven't been able to kind of blitz and get that going. And I really think it came from the not pressing it. It was just, it was very odd.

And this is something I've been surprised at this entire series. Obviously it's each team is making adjustments, but for the most part, Carlisle is coaching the same way he's coached all season. You know that McConnell comes in with like 3 or 4 minutes to go in the first quarter. Halliburton stays out until about 8 minutes. Someone's come in with one minute to go in the quarter and then come in with about 8 minutes to go in the 2nd and the

4th. Like the patterns are pretty similar and like, you know, whether it's top end or math or any, would they kind of like he swaps those, But it's been pretty much the same. Where is the Thunder? Or like immediately game one, like we're going too big. Like we're not going to do that. We're now we're going to go small and then we're going to start pressing and then we're not and then we're going to end in this game.

It felt almost like because the Pacers weren't just pressing, but they were running, it's like the pressure was off and felt like Oklahoma City just wasn't their defensive pressure was not

there. It just felt like they came in kind of passive and there was almost AI wonder if there was a bit of a rope, a dope like, you know, well, Halliburton's not going to play or he's going to be injured and we don't need to press and you know, we'll just we'll win the title and it's like, oh shoot, we're down 15 in the second and then oh wait, Shepard just hit a three like we're down 30. What are we doing? I. I'm baffled by the the whole thing.

I mean, first of all, again, I expected Indiana to come come out with a lot of energy, but I expected Oklahoma City to come out with a lot of energy too. Like we talked about this and, and again, as you mentioned earlier, it felt like Oklahoma City had figured out the Pacers. It felt like they had figured out how to play them, how to harass them. You know, we've, we've heard all about this vaunted defense that Oklahoma City has and, and their offense is just as good.

They've got this tremendous net rating inefficiency and yet this is the kind of game you get sometimes out of younger teams, I think, where it is a huge moment. And when you get hit in the face repeatedly over the course of the first half of a game, it it, it becomes harder and harder. But, but it was just, it was odd to me that the things that it worked so well for the Thunder just didn't seem to be there. And as as you mentioned, a lot of it was effort.

There was some early fouls, like I did think it was interesting. The Thunder I think got to four or five fouls in the first quarter and the Pacers still had one. There were a couple of early fouls on Dort, which seemed to change his mentality a little bit in terms of how he was playing. But it really did feel like the the Thunder looked almost a little just uncertain about what they should be doing and how they should be approaching

things. And I it's very odd because they didn't look that way in Game 4. And I do wonder to some degree if what they're dealing with defensively at this point is a real lack of core identity because they're not playing the line UPS that they rode that gaudy defensive record to, not just in the regular season, but through the first part of the play offs. They've had to adjust. They're really not playing the line up that got them the best numbers throughout the course of the year.

And that has created this kind of oddity where they've had to lean so heavily on Lukens Dort and on Alex Caruso. And you know that they've had to have Hartenstein out there even though he hasn't really performed a whole lot offensively because they've really struggled to get great defensive effort out of Chet Holmgren in the post.

And the Pacers, because of the way that they play and the way that they move the ball around, have given the Thunder a type of offense to defend That really does take a lot out of you when you have to do it this many games in a row. And, you know, it's wild to think about. This was a stat that that that Simmons had on his podcast. I think it was Zach Lowe that brought it up throughout the first six games combined, As many people that have said of the Thunder are just the superior team.

They're +5 for the entire, you know, 6. Games combined like that's it has been essentially an even series and yet it hasn't been that way perceptionally in the minds of people that have watched this series. I think it's really fascinating points about the defense that are that are tied and I think are positive for the Pacers. Is that one. I think your point about the lineups is is a great one. I think it's very, very apt.

You know, what I think is interesting is you're starting to see, but but on the flip side, like this is where the everyone feels like, you know, Nash is like, damn, Thunder are great. Their defense is awesome. Like Pacers offense is good too, Like, and you're what you're starting to see is over time, the Pacers are starting to figure out where the seams are in this defense.

And what I mean is that always, you know, the way the Thunder play defense, the the corner 3 is their Achilles heel. Like they, they, they, they help in and they leave the corner 3 open. And so they've been able, you know, the Pacers have been able to, to get to that. Unfortunately, a lot of the guys, you know, Turner hasn't been shooting well, but you know, Nesmith has also not been shooting well. It's getting better.

And I, I saw this mention. It makes sense now that, you know, Nesmith could just be now getting over that ankle sprain he had in the Knicks series. And you saw it in last night. His shot, he just is firing back up and he has that kind of, you know, runs the corner, gets the ball kind of like, and then just like gets himself lined up. Like, so much torque on his body goes up. Those shots are starting to go

down. If those corner threes are going down for Nesmith, that helps because that's always going to be there. But you see as the Thunder are rotating off of that to cover that it's opening up that kind of, you know, top of the key three or the off the the elbow three that top end was hitting. And then I'll just, I, I texted you about this like I marked this down in games 4:00 and 5:00 the the the Thunder initially they didn't want to have this switch happen. It happened in game five.

It feels like they were cool with it. They got shit up on on Halliburton and Halliburton really was like 1 unsure how to get around shit Had a couple times re dribbled and had a dance around. Took a three didn't work well last night. One play in the third quarter. It's like he's he's dribbled around does the corner pass to Naismith because it's there.

And then he just Halliburton hard cuts to the goal and it's like just a touch pass back to Halliburton lays it up and then I text you it's like you never saw it again. It's like it very much felt like we may not see it again, but it felt like that worked. Do not show that again like that worked. Lay off it. We're going to need that again. But you just like that to me is a play where it's like that has opened up because they know the

corner 3 is there. So how do we use that to then add another piece to it like the Pacers are starting to figure out wrinkles in this defense to run their offense? And I don't just think it was, you know, them being at home last night. I I think you're starting to see more of it. Even in Game 5 when they made the comeback, they were getting the ball to Siakam.

Sorry. Then the last, last, last thing I will say is, you know, the Pacers do love to pass in when you get Siakamur Turner on a mismatch, but sometimes they've they've taken riskier passes and then they need to. Last night it was very much like if it's not there, we're going to reset, but we're going to reset with a quick purpose and

get going again. Unfortunately, the Pacers at times in the series are kind of reset and then kind of lost their way and just end up Jack, you know, jacking up a shot. So it's, it's been, they've been very, you know, confident with the ball, not making risky passes, but then resetting in a way where we're going to get stuff going again.

But no, I I think as the series goes on, it's benefiting the Pacers offense because they're starting to figure out where these seams are and ways to run routes off of routes off of routes. Yeah, no, I think it that's all really all really well said. And before we dive into some of the broader stats and things that we're seeing in the series, you know, we should I think mention some of the

performances. You know you you look at this game OB top and leads the Pacers in scoring and I mean it was just from the beginning like came in hit a three was was all over the place finished was 6 for 12 from the field in 23 minutes and it's. You add 6 rebounds to that as well. High level.

Just wait, step back Obi Topping to me, I'm like this is where I think the Pacers are in a great spot for the next couple years is if you're any player there's there's tons of Obi topping type players in the league that's he was buried on the Knicks. They could not figure out how to use him. If you're an athletic 6-8 guy who can run, jump and kind of shoot, it's like you should look at this like I want to go play

there. Like I want to go sign a two year deal there because I, I don't know if Obi Topin is able to do this anywhere else. Sorry. I just I look at Obi Topin as like the everybody should be looking at this and like, damn, I want to play with Tyrese Halliburton because he's overrated star. Whatever you Stephen A Smith can argue that. Like I'm just going to go put up 20 in a finals game.

It is fascinating because Topin, if you look at his stats in kind of a raw setting, they, they don't look that much more superior to what he was doing before. I mean, he averaged 10 1/2 points a game this year and three or four rebounds a game. It's about what he averaged last year. And yet people forget this is still a relatively young player. He's only 26.

This is only Year 5. And what he has managed to do over the course of these playoffs should get the Pacers really excited because this is a player that, you know, if he can continue to develop, you know, I think it's going to be really, you know, a really great asset to have. And they've got him under contract through 2028 on a really, really good deal. You know, I mean, he's got he's making 12 and 13 million this year, 14 next year, 15 the year

after, 16 the year after that. That's in this in this economy. That's that's nice to have. And as you mentioned, like the athletic 6-8 guy who can hit threes but can defend all over the place. And I think with topping, the big thing is can he, can he dial down the the mistakes, the turnovers, the bad decisions? The brain mark on defense.

Yeah. I mean, because we've and it's he's honestly he he's like where you hope that Benedict Matheran will get in a couple of years where there there's clearly talent with both of those players top. And I think it's been in the league longer. I think that the coaching has gotten him a little bit better. But those two in particular and and if you think about it like top and is the primary reason that they get The Big Lead that

wins them the game in game six. Matheran obviously has that huge explosion of scoring in game three. They've also had games in the playoffs and in this series, Matheran most of the rest of the games in the series where they just haven't executed. And so they needed that game. And I think it's one of the keys with the Pacers is that they they are able to win these games when they get somebody coming off the bench who can have that kind of a performance.

And really where they've been at their best so far in these play offs is when they've had two of those guys, because obviously TJ McConnell was the other one in this game and he was the other one in game three too. Like this. Is he did in game five? I mean, I heard like Bill and Zach Lowe joke about it like if he was a free agent loss, is he

a Max player? I mean, he he comes in and it's just like he's going to he he increases the pace, he goes faster, he's able to get places, he's able to move the ball. He's he's unbelievable. Yeah, it's I I had a former colleague who worked in Philly sent me an article. It's like, hey, like he was the process. It's just happening in Indy now. I know No.

And his his ability to do what he does despite having a. What seems to be an easily defendable game, and yet it clearly is not because nobody can defend him, including this Thunder team. I mean, I saw this great tweet from somebody about how hilarious and and fitting it is that this vaunted Thunder defense is getting terrorized on a nightly basis by TJ McConnell of all people. Who's less? Under contract to 2029, right? Yeah, again it is $1,000,000 a year.

Yeah, really, really smart moves by the Pacers and you know, the the energy level, the one the one tough thing about not having another home game is how much of an impact TJ McConnell makes on the home crowd for the Pacers when he comes in. Obviously you don't have the same effect on the road, but his ability to galvanized the crowd, his leaning into that role. And as you mentioned, like the fact and Tyrese Halliburton mentioned this in the post game yesterday, he comes in and says

we're going to go faster. Like it's not hey, the the starters are on the bench. Let's take our foot off the gas. He's the one that helps keep that pace alive. And that really bothers the Thunder, I think because they do not have a similarly equipped player. Yes, they've been bringing Caruso off the bench. Caruso's not that type of player. He's an agitator, but. He's not an accelerator.

And that's funny because he's the, I mean, he's the oldest player on the team outside of James Johnson. He's 33 and always talk about like the pace, like, but he comes in and it's like he looks so much more in shape, so much faster than all of these teams. And this is one of those where it's like, I don't this is where I think the Pacers are set up well in the East for years. Like, I don't the Knicks and the

Bucks couldn't deal with that. But I mean, in this case, too, the Thunder are in the same boat where it's like, I don't, they don't really have anybody who can guard McConnell. Yeah, it's it's pretty remarkable that that, you know, the Pacers find themselves in this particular scenario with the the roster they've got and, and the fact that it's required McConnell to come in and be a, you know, contributed a high level pretty much every time he's gone in.

And, and you look at his stats over the course of the entire series now, and he's shooting 54% from the field. He's shooting 60% from three, albeit only on five attempts, 78% from the free throw line, all in 19 minutes. He's averaging, he's one of eight Pacers averaging double figures scoring in this series, but he is also the Pacer with the second highest assist rate despite playing fewer minutes than all of the guys that are in front of him are around him in

that mix. I mean, he's only played 114 minutes in this series. He's averaging 4.5 assists per game as well as 2.3 steals. He leads the the. Team in that category as well. It's just a really impressive set of accomplishments throughout the course of the series for him. Something you and I talked about at the beginning of the series is you look at the Thunder and you look at how it's played out Now they have 3 1/2 guys. I mean, Shay's averaging 30 points a game.

Jalen Williams is averaging 24. Both those guys are awesome. OK, Chet's averaging 11. He's hit or miss, I don't know. Caruso's averaging 10 and then it starts falling off a Cliff. Dort's averaging 8. Wiggins is averaging 6. You know you're down to Carson. Wallace is averaging 5. You know, you look at the Pacers, you have Siakam, Halliburton, Top, and Turner. McConnell, Nemhart, Nesmith and Matheran are all averaging 10 plus in the Finals.

It's your, you know, this is where it's like it you, you know that a couple like even if Matheran's not having a game, you know, McConnell will or Toppin will. And if Toppin's night, Matheran might, Nesmith might it it, it's all there. I, I want to ask you a question about Game 6 as we kind of look also to game seven. I'm sitting there with my son in the third quarter and talking to people around me. I want to pull up the, the the

game chart here. You know, as you get into the third, it's, you know, the Pacers are definitely up. They're up at one point by, you know, 20 points. But I'm like, all right, we've seen enough basketball. I keep telling my son like they're going to make a push, like the Thunder are going to make a push. Don't worry. The end of the quarter. Worry as the case could be worry. Like like I just don't like because my son's like he's starting to get excited, which is awesome.

Like they're going to make a push and then, you know, Shepherd hits the three and I'm like, oof, OK, this is this is a lot. But but I'm still like, they're going to like they're going to put their starters back in and make a push. They just took them out to rest them. And then with like 10 minutes to go on the 4th, I'm like, I maybe not. And then with eight minutes to go, I'm just like, they're they're done. Like they're not putting their I

was shocked. I was honestly shocked that they're you know, you're down 30. So I guess you're just like, all right, we're done. But like it allows the Pacers to rest Halliburton. Like I'm I'm just really surprised for a team that we've heard about the entire season is what a stud team is one of the best teams in history. You know, 68 like to have the balls just be like, we're going to sit our guys in the fourth

quarter. Like I, I, I, I was saying to someone like, I just don't know how that affects you moving forward. If this was the 97 bowls, I'd be like, all right, fine. Like you've earned the right to just sit down. Like I trust you're going to bring it in game seven. I don't know, man. Like you just it it. It was shocking to me that they didn't at least try one more counter punch.

Well, I think they would have if it had been a 20 point margin, but it was a 30 point margin with that Shepherd shot. I mean that the, it's, it's one of those things where you do have to some, to some degree, have a trigger inside where you're like, OK, this is a lost cause. And, and I, you know, keep in mind, like with what was it with 436 left in the third SGA hits a step back and it makes it a, a 19 point game. I believe it was, it was like it was 707657. It was actually 7.

Sorry, it was 7557 after the free throw. So that's an 18 point margin. And I think if it's in that 18 to 20 point range, I think Oklahoma City's like, well, I mean, we've got to, we got to keep going. We got to keep pushing it. But then you look at what happens after that and the Pacers increase the lead and they get to the end of the quarter, it's 90 to 60 after that, three from Shepherd. It's a 30 point margin.

The, the, the Thunder had shown nothing up to that point that indicated that they were going to be able to make up that deficit. Now, this is if this kind of goes back, though, to something you said earlier about coaching decisions and what you do and why you decide to do it. And I think what's interesting about that decision by Mark Daniel, you, you rest your starters because you're looking at the game. You're like, the game's over. We need to get the taste out of our mouth of this.

I don't want my guys that have to be out there chasing the ball around. We know that there's going to be a game seven. We're going to host it. I'd rather rest the legs 'cause I think Scott, as I, I noted this on Twitter and I think a lot of people noticed this as well just from the shooting percentages. Both of these teams are starting to look what I would call

finals. Tired, you know, going back to the marathon elements of this when you've been playing playoff basketball for two months, you know, with the Thunder having gone to another Game 7 earlier on, they were not shooting the ball particularly well. They outside of SGA, they did not have the lift in the legs. You've got to try to steal some rest. But the the payoff for that was that the Pacers were then able to rest their starters pretty

quickly. I was actually surprised that Rick left Siakam in as long as he did. But even with that, Siakam only played 32 minutes, Nee Smith played 25, Halliburton played 23, you know, Nemhard played 31. I mean, these are pretty low numbers for, you know, but but it's these are more along the lines of what the Pacers are used to doing. And meanwhile, SGA ended up playing, you know, 31 minutes even with being benched the entire fourth quarter. So I was surprised.

But I also think it was just one of those we have to throw in the towel here because we have to preserve something for Sunday. I but this is kind of where you and I were talking about this a little bit earlier. What does that do mentally for your team? You know, the I don't know exactly how the Thunder react to getting blown out and effectively losing the game by 30, even though they actually only lost the game by by what, 17 or 18 point?

Well, it doesn't, you know, but the but the mental blow of doing that, knowing you didn't come out ready to play, knowing you got out competed, yes, you know, you're going back home. But as we heard Stephen A Smith talk about, this is a dangerous game to be playing in game six of the Finals against the team that you really, despite what people thought, haven't been able to actually fully figure out and get under your thumb.

Every time that you do, the Pacers seem to scramble out of it and figure out a new way to bother you. It's just a it's a real dice roll. Also, the Pacers, they just stared into the abyss. I mean, they just played a game at tip off where it's like if we lose, we're going home. And the Thunder haven't done that yet. They're about to. And so if you're the Pacers, it's like your flight today to

Oklahoma City is great. It's like, all right, we just got to do what we got to do. Like we know what we got to do. There's no second guessing it it, you know, if at least the Thunder had come back and maybe cut it to within 12 and done some things where it's like shoot, man, like they were really on a run there. If we, you know, no, you just you go in yours. Like we, we know what we got to do. We have three more things up our

sleeves. We have Carlisle. Like, I don't know the Thunder. You know, I was thinking this too. You know, at this point you're kind of done with moves. Like there's no more massive moves that you know, coaches are going to make adjustments, but it's like you've you've not say they've made all the adjustments. They know each other. It's they're all athletically they they know what they can do. It's like this is a mental game now. And that's what I go to is the Thunder.

You're flying back and sure you're like, oh, we got we got the game at home. It's all that. But it's like until that game tips off. Then it's you're thinking like this is we could lose and it's all over. And you've not had that that pressure the Pacers have already had. Is there a moment in Game 7 where if it's not going great and you're just like, Oh my God, we did. Did we blow our chance 2 days ago?

And then suddenly you give up. You know, there's another Siakam 3. It's just like I, I, I wonder if the Pacers are able to just keep game seven close, which history says it will be. Most game sevens are ugly Betty under Betty under are normally just ugly affairs. And it's very tight. You know, I wonder if, if mentally this hits this team where it's like, man, they, they hit that wall and they got too close and it's like they like, shoot, we should have grabbed it 2 days ago.

I, I don't know, because this is, this is definitely a young team that, you know, they don't have the experience of a coach and a player winning a title like the Pacers do. True. I mean, the thing I will say, and This is why this game is people have asked like, who's going to win Game 7? Like it's impossible to call because there's just so many variables that you will not be able to figure out in this process because what you just

described. You know, when you take that gut punch after, you know, you get you get boat raced in this game, you're in a position where you now you got to go back and reconjure the energy. Well, the Pacers had that same experience in game 4, which led into game five and everybody was like, well, they're dead in the water. And then they were able to come back. So you know, these things, these switches get flipped.

The the Thunder youth thing is interesting because what has also been an abiding thing for them as a team has been how steady they've been and how very Workman like they've been. Neutral is their is their slogan. Right. And so will they be able to return to neutral? And this is always the big question mark. I mean, to me it, it is a mental

game. But I also think to some degree what you have to think about with with Oklahoma City in particular is it's it's mental, but a lot of it is also just performance. And as you mentioned, they've essentially turned into a two man team. They are Shay Gilgeous Alexander and Jalen Williams. And that is not what they were in the regular season.

In the regular season, Chet Holmgren was a the the third star, like the guy who could contribute consistently and Lou Dort would play at a high defensive level and you couldn't exploit him. And he was just this cheat code defensively. And Isaiah Hartenstein was, you know, able to contribute both offensively and defensively. And I mean, Hartenstein had another game where he was just non factor. Chet Holmgren had another game where not only was he a non factor, you know, like

defensively, he was a non factor offensively. 2 for 9 from the field O for three from three had four points, had two turnovers, got blocked at the three-point line by Miles Turner cleanly again again. I I mean, so if I'm the Thunder, what bothers me about this game is of Game 7 is which of your guys are going to conjure up the big game? I mean, Alex Caruso in game four goes off, scores a ton of points, was scoreless in this game in 22 minutes. Jalen Williams scored 40 points in game five.

And as I'm sure everybody's heard by this point was -40 and plus minus in this game, Like that's inconceivable almost, Scott, to to go through that much of A swing. So when you look at that and then you look at the Pacers and you say to yourself, well, you know, the thing about the Pacers is you rattle off those eight guys in double figures. They also have nobody averaging 20 plus points a game.

And the stat I saw earlier, the last NBA champion to win without anybody averaging 20 points per game, You want to guess who it was? OK. That's a great question. It is I'm not going to say a Kobe team. I would, I would I would not have. I as soon as I saw what the answer was, I was like, Oh, of course I would have not have gotten it. Off the top of my head. I my guess would be the O 4 Pistons. Like that was a right, right franchise, wrong year. It was actually the 1990 Pistons.

If you remember the the old heads in the audience, if you remember those Pistons, the Bad Boys Pistons, they all the the focus is on the Bad Boys part. But the thing about that team that was so unique was that it really they had a generational point guard, obviously, and Isaiah Thomas, but that was not a team that had a dedicated score. If you if you squint, you can kind of see a similar make up in terms of what you've got going on with this Pacers team this

year. Because, you know, back to the Joe Dumars as your shooting guard, you had Bill Lane beer and James Edwards in the post You had was like. Vinny Johnson of that team. Basically, yes, you know, he's kind of in the microwave mode. They bring Mark Aguire in who's kind of in that Nemhard mode. I mean, there's and then now that team played, it was a much different era of the NBA, but. There's no there's no lamb beer. You just can't comp lamb beer.

You know, and everybody looks at Isaiah and they're like, well, you know, all time 50 greatest players and stuff like that. Twelve time All Star, whatever it was, he was clearly a player at a higher level than anybody the Pacers have, but they didn't rely on Isaiah for everything like a lot of these other teams have. And so I do think that that's an interesting aspect as you go into Game 7. The the the Thunder have to get a great a great game out of SGA.

They have to get a great game out of Jalen Williams. They have to get a great game, or at least a good game out of at least two other players because it's too much of A possession load to go through a 48 minute or more basketball game, relying entirely on SGA and Jalen Williams to do all of the scoring. And that's essentially what they put themselves in the position of doing over the court. That what they did, at least in Game 6.

So the, the thing that concerns me, but I'll also flip it as a positive is I, I, I, I agree with you. I would also say when you look at like the history of game sevens in the NBA, which they're they're what's awesome is there haven't been a lot like this is really I want to finish with like a big picture Pacers talk, but this is this is cool stuff. I mean, just making a Game 7. There's been five, I think since the ABA merger. There's there's not a lot of Game 7. This is a big deal.

Obviously you assume that, you know, Shay and Jalen are in, you know, 1 camp for the for the the Thunder and Siakam and Halliburton are in the other for the Pacers, where you they're your stars. You're probably going to get that out of them. Although Halliburton sometimes has the he's got to have at least a relatively aggressive Halliburton game. The thing is, normally these Finals games also get swung by just a role player like somebody is going to do something abnormal.

And is that Wiggins hitting a bunch of threes? Is that Dort hitting a bunch of threes? You know, unfortunately, normally the role players are going to play better at home, which is what concerns me. The flip side is for the Pacers, you have a history of Naismith got red hot against the Knicks on the road. You had a role player just go nuclear to get you a game there.

It wasn't a Game 7, but you did have last year, oddly, again in the Garden, that the place no one can win where the refs are going to screw you. You know, the Pacers shot the lights out. Turner had a phenomenal game against the Knicks last year in Game 7. He's probably a little more than role player, but you know, I, I will say that I'm on the record that you're going to have one of those kind of off the star marquee guys go nuts. That'll probably swing this game.

You know, the the Pacers have a history of doing it on the road. Unfortunately the history is normally those guys are are normally from the home team where it happens, which is what concerns me. I want to show a couple of shot charts if that's OK with you from the series. Scott has vetoed my shots. That'll be good. Let me see if I can actually get this. This is one that I loaded just just real quick like go ahead shows just how you know for all the talk.

It's so funny because it's like the Thunder when they when they lose like man, they're playing bad and it's like man, the thunders defense like having submissions or maybe the Pacers offense is good, but maybe the Pacers are good. You look at this stat and this is off NBA. You can just see basically it goes through points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, turnovers, field goal percentage, 3 point possessions, free throw percentage. It's basically a dead heat. It's.

Pretty dark even, yeah. There's a little variance here and there, but there's nothing that's like, wow, they're really like, we have 6 blocks, they have 5.5. Let's let's discuss your thoughts to all the talk of what a generationally good team the Thunder are. And like, is this one of the top three teams of all time? It's like the the the Pacers can't just be like, well, you got lucky with the game like we have played with them. And to your earlier point, after six games, it's a + 5.

Like this is basically as dead heat a finals as you're ever going to get. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, I know. I mean all all of that and and more. It's it's a great point. Let me let me get these shot charts. I'm going to zoom in a little bit because there's some fascinating things I've noticed in the way these teams are playing with, you know, against each other. Oh, hold on, Let me Scroll down a little bit more here. OK, so this is the Oklahoma City shot chart for the entire series.

And, and what I want to note is if you go down and look at like field goal percentage versus league average, like the bluer it gets, the less good it is, relatively speaking. So the Thunder are they're they're fairly hot in the corner 3 on the right side, although they haven't taken terribly many of those. They're not shooting corner threes particularly well from the left side. They are struggling down low in terms of their shooting

percentages. And what's interesting is only 61% immediately around the basket, only 38% in the paint and then only 38% in the mid range. And that's really where this team is is supposed to thrive. If you look at some of their individual players, like let's look at Chet, Chet has been horrific all over the place. Like Chet, I know Chet is 2 for 17 from three. He is 17 for 32 immediately around the basket.

This is a 7 foot one guy who like thrives in that area and he's not been any better in the paint or in the mid range. I mean, that is a really impressive defensive performance by Indiana against him for the whole series. Jalen Williams is interesting. Williams has been great around like in the paint, he's he's 71%. But if you'll notice, what did the Pacers do not in the paint immediately around the basket? What did they do in last night's

game? They just closed all that off They. Closed it all off and they pushed him out a little bit. If you get him away from immediately around the basket, if you don't let him close, if you make him shoot or you know, Drifters, leaners, whatever, he's shooting 34.8% from the paint, he's shooting 30.4% from the mid range. That's that. I mean that that is going to be hard for them to overcome if they can't figure it out. If you look at SGA, he's been

red hot around the basket. He's been red hot from the mid range, but he's only 5 for 20 from three, and he's only 43.2 where he's in the paint but not at the basket. And again, if you look at what they did yesterday, they kind of baited him into going One Direction. And yeah, he picked up some bogus foul calls, but he also put a bunch of shots up that didn't go in, which was a bit of a surprise given how good of a shooter he's been so far in this series. Anything from that stick out to

you? I just thought some of that stuff was really fascinating to look at. No, it is. It's it's amazing how bad Chet has been. Like when you look at that, like I was going through all the other plays, I was joking. Like I'll do Hartenstein and even Hartenstein, it's a very small sample size, but it's red and green and like it's pretty good. And, and Chet is just, yeah,

it's, it's not good. The other one that I'll mention here is this is Logan's Dort, who does not shoot very much and he is essentially become like a safety valve 3 point shooter on kick outs. And the reason I bring this up is he's been well above average from all of the three-point zones. However, I'll note that that is important when you think about how badly he shot from three in game six. Could we be seeing him regress back to the mean as this series goes further on?

If that's no longer a reliable weapon for Oklahoma City, that takes a big part of their arsenal out. That helped to take some defensive pressure off of SGA and Jalen Williams. Could you? Are you going to do the Pacers? Yes, I'm going to go to the Pacers next. All right, good. So this is the entire Pacers roster I hope. You hit, it's just insane. So they are shooting from the right corner, three, they are shooting 52.6%. Twenty of 38, which I mean they're shooting well from the

left corner. They're 10 for 27 there, you know, But what's fascinating about this team is they're not finishing well around the rim. They're only at 61%. It's actually under league average. But they're mid range, which long time Crimson cast fans will laugh at this, but this has been where the Pacers have feasted throughout the course of this series.

They're shooting 47% from the mid range and it has that really saved them in several of these games when the threes haven't been going in and they can't really finish around the rim because of the Thunder's size. It's been fascinating watching them kind of mold their offense around knowing that they can get those shots and into their credit, making them happen. Have you? Are you rethinking? The the Mike Woodson offense now not you.

You know, if Mike Woodson had this array of players playing for him in Indiana, yeah, you know, knock yourself out. The mid range never went out of vogue. It was just that the most people don't have the players to play it. Go to TJ McConnell. It's just insane. Yeah, McConnell's nuts.

McConnell is. It's just it's insane. 5 for eight from the mid range, 12 for 25 from the paint, you know, and then he's 3 for four from three and has just been a guy that you you rely on in a bunch of different spots there. And it's been really, really effective to see Pascal Siakam has been the one guy that's really finished effectively down low if you look at Obi Toppin. You know his.

Performance from three, he's 9 for 23 from kind of straight away he's 3 for five in the left corner, you know, and that's where he's really made some hay. You compare it with Miles Turner. Miles Turner is. One for 18, which is so weird 'cause that's his shot. The top of the key 3 has been his shot his whole career and it, it, it, he's the one that I just, you know, if he hits a couple of threes in game 4, is this series over? You know, if he, if he's shooting this way against the

Bucks, are we even here? I mean it's, it's wild where he's gone off and, and his shots, it's not because of defense. Those are open shots. I just, I think he is in a in his head slump. You would think it he's going to get out of it, but I've been thinking that for like 3 games now. Right. That's the thing. It almost feels like he's in an offensive tailspin. I mean, one for 18 on shots he's taking his whole career.

It's it's just. I was joking in the fourth quarter, like just put him in and run some actions for him just to get him some looks like against crappy backup guys. Just can you get him feeling better? Yeah. I mean, it's it's going to be interesting to see what happens with him because again, it's one of those things where it doesn't make sense that the Pacers would be even in this series given how little they've.

Gotten out of Miles Turner offensively, Like you go through and look at what he has contributed, you know, over the course of the series, he is he's he's averaging 11 points per game. But that is very misleading in terms of like he's shooting back. Of 11, yeah. Yeah, he's shooting 36.8% from the field, 20% from three, you know, and, and where he's, where he's really made his most contributions is he's, he's rebounded the ball fairly well, but he's gotten out rebounded

by, by multiple guards. Is does he have one game in him that's at least like what his normal because he's shooting he's the worst. The worst field goal percentage for the Finals of the Pacers, the worst three-point shooting percentage of the Pacers in the Finals. It, it, it, I, I keep feeling he's got to have a better game in him. I know he's been sick, you know, just like health wise, I know he was sick in like games 3 and 4, but it, it's his shot just looks off.

And, and now the what concerns me is like in game six, there was a lot of times he had shots and just pump faked or passed off. Like he he's obviously in in his head in a funk. He just needs to see the ball. Go in the hoop. Yeah. No, it's, it's just it's a bizarre regression overall for him. And, you know, now I'll say, well, I do give him credit. He is still playing good defensive ball. And and that has been why you've seen him stay on the floor so much.

It's just like, that's the one. And this is where injuries hurt the Pacers in ways that the national media never talked about. To only have Tony Bradley or Thomas Bryant or Obi Toppin. Like those are your three choices, not none. I mean, Obi Toppin obviously brings a ton to the table, but he's not like an ideal like for like replacement at the four or anything like that. I'm talking to my. Brother-in-law about this. You know, Isaiah Jackson was huge in the Knicks series last

year. Like he, he played a big role as a nice backup center. And you're right, no one talks about it. It's like, oh, you, you lose your backup center. He's like, no, Isaiah Jackson was a big piece of it. And who knows what Wiseman could have done. I can at least imagine Wiseman would provide what Bradley's providing, if not a little bit more. So I'm, I'm with you, if you're bringing one of those two guys off the bench, is that, does that swing this series? You're still here, man.

You're in a game seven, you know, let's talk. I mean, it's funny. We're we're beyond Scott's fever dreaming. You are here. It truly you and I had some fun text back and forth. Just I want to have some fun talk at you know, I talked to friends on Friday. It's like, man, I you know, the Pacers can't score in this Game 7. They're probably going to lose the series.

There's some there's some fun media talk you can have at this point, but it it you know, it really is for the championship now, like there's there's no other option. And you know, it's it's one game, as they all say, but it there's a lot on the line here and there is some legacy stuff. You know, some it's a lot, but it sorry, go there. You're you're right. So it's kind of a big deal. Yeah, no, I know it's please go ahead. Try to not get into the the media speak, but it's so hard

from the Pacers perspective. You know, I was talking about, you know, where does this put Halliburton overall? It just it it's a if, if they win this, he immediately becomes a guy. You know, I don't I don't I'm not into the is he a star? Is he a superstar? Is he top ten? I don't care. He just he he becomes part of an echelon that is just like he's a dude and he's LED A-Team. He's had, I mean, just maybe the most unbelievable game-winning shot mode.

I mean, from a narrative point of view, this ends with him taking one more final shot to win the finals. That would be on unbelievable, But it it it puts Halliburton at a level where it's done it it puts the Pacers at a point where they can really run this core from a period of strength, like not trying to chase. It's like, oh man, we got a chip. Let's you know, you can afford to run it back. Maybe you try something, you just you're not chasing it. You know, it it probably keeps

Turner here. It puts Carlisle in a it just it it changes everything. But I think it mostly changes for Halliburton and Siaka. Yeah, no, I agree with all of that. I mean, it's I I think for the individual players, it's so much of your reputation in the NBA is centered around these sorts of moments and being able to

execute them. I mean, you, you think about the way we think about Kawhi Leonard versus the way we think about James Harden. And, you know, they've had similar injury issues, like they're different types of players. But you know, Leonard's won two titles, including a title with his own team that, you know, with the Raptors that that his own team in quotes isn't he's not there anymore. But you know what I mean? For the Pacers, there's another level from the players

perspective. And it's a tough one for people, I think, to get their heads wrapped around because, you know, we've had out of the blue champions, but they're they tended to be led by big name players. Giannis with the Bucks, obviously LeBron winning with the Cavs. You mentioned that O 4 Pistons team. That's probably the last one where it felt like there really wasn't a guy like that. And obviously Leonard with the Raptors.

You know, so it's it it's almost one of those things where it enhances everybody's reputation, but it doesn't enhance any one player's reputation to like an insane level except for probably Halliburton. It should enhance Siakam if they were to win it because Siakam. Is probably like if they win and he scores 20 he's he's probably the finals MVPI mean that that's the other quiet thing like that is up for grabs. The finals MVP for me is like completely up for grabs.

It could be Jalen Williams. I've wondered this in the background just this. There's no way to answer this, but cause Shay is Canadian and Halliburton was on the Olympic team, I do wonder if he's getting calls or able to make calls with basically every NBA star that was on. You know, you have Curry, LeBron, Durant, guys who have been in the NBA, you know, they're all friends and they, but it's like those Olympic guys have a connection. And then most of the Thunder are Canadian or younger.

It's like Halliburton's there. I wonder if Halliburton is getting a call from LeBron. Be like, hey man, here's some things to keep in the back of your mind as a guy who's been here before. I mean, Curry's been and they're like, I just, I, I wonder that along this ride if, if those guys are mentoring him a bit. Yeah, I know. It's, it's, it's an interesting question and I it's impossible to know unless, unless somebody was to tell us.

But it is an interesting thought to me though, the big what? Does it do for the city? I mean, sorry, go ahead. That's. Where I'm actually exactly where I was headed. I mean, to me, for the Pacers, it is, it is the legitimacy the franchise has been trying to get really since they joined the NBA in the merger.

You know, they've, they the Pacers have kind of been in this unique spot within the NBA spectrum where they've had really, if you think about it, you know, since the merger, they've had four distinct team eras where they were a contender

and couldn't quite breakthrough. Obviously the 90s era that started in in 94 and really ran all the way through to the finals appearance in 2000. They had that second very abbreviated run a couple of years later with Ron Artest and, and that group that ended up getting derailed by the Malice and the Palace. They have the the early 20 tens team with Paul George and, you know, and and Hibbert and that whole group. And then they've got this group.

And this group is probably the group that the fewest people saw coming. But it's also the group that punched through and has led the Pacers as far as they've ever been right in the NBA play offs. And, you know, I can tell you it's been fun connecting with people who were fans in the 90s of those teams and how emotionally invested people have

gotten really overnight. I mean, I think people were excited about the Pacers last year with that kind of magical run to the Eastern Conference finals. But the way the season started this year and the uncertainty about what the team was going to look like as they went into the playoffs and who they were going to be facing, you know, people were like, this is great, this team is good. I don't think people were thinking this team could win a title. You know, the there there is it.

It's not it's not an end all be all. It doesn't fix everything or put you in an echelon forever in terms of like, you know, people thinking about you differently. The Raptors being a great example of that, the Bucks being

another great example of that. But those teams have titles, like those franchises have titles in the NBA And I think for the Pacers and this very proud basketball fan base and and the city of Indianapolis, which has won title as a professional sports city in its history. And that was of course the Colts 19 years ago or 18 years ago, whatever you want to count it as.

It would be one of those things that moves this that like Indiana and Indianapolis in particular into a different mentality and a different mindset. You know, and look, you could say the same thing about Oklahoma City, but to a more like a greater extreme, because that would be kind of the 1st truly Oklahoma City thing that they could point to. That's like, this is 100% ours. We're not leaning on the Sonic's history. Yes, they've had good teams too. They've had great players in the

last 15 years. But that essentially imprints their franchise and their city as having won a title at the major level. But for the Pacers, the, the, the, the pathway's been much longer. The fans have waited longer. There's a much deeper connection. I just think it would mean so much for the city to have that happen and for the franchise.

It essentially validates an entirely different way of building a team and an entirely different way of approaching basketball in the NBA that a lot of people are big fans of and have rooted for and wanted to see succeed. I'm not just talking about Indiana people. I'm talking about people across the league. Yeah, agreed. Yeah. And and also just the way to play basketball.

It's funny. Like this is not only TJ McConnell, like Ryan Racilo had a great thing where he went on this rant about how like that's every high school coach. It's just like drooling over McConnell. But the way that Halliburton plays of just, you know, pass the ball, like you get rid of it, you'll get it back. And this ethos of like pass and move and run and play with effort, It's funny how nationally they, they, the media seems confused to how to deal with the Pacers.

Like this is what everybody, but then like they complain about we hate ISO ball. And it's like this is the antithesis of that. Like this is not one guy just dribbling and just doing the same motion and the same pick and roll every time. Like it's right here. Everything everyone's complaining about in basketball, like the Pacers do not play that way. I think they would, Obviously we're biased. I think they'd be a great champion.

Maybe we'd get a Christmas game. Maybe we'd get on national TV like two more times next year. Damn, man, I want it. I just God damn. It would be nice to win a title. It, it, it there's we don't know how this ends, but it does. I mean, this has been a storybook and you look at the the things that had to happen for us to get here. It it's really hard to get here again. And it's it would God, it would be nice to to, to get it done. It would be. I mean, it's, it's we've talked

about. The way I mean, this has still been an amazing run. I still had a hell of a time and in two or three years which banner is up is is I'll still remember all of the times I had with my son. I'm sure everyone out there same thing like me with my son, my wife. Going to games like all of this one game isn't going to really change how much fun this ride is. It just probably means back to your credit card. Like am I going to spend 400 bucks on Monday morning on championship gear or not?

I, I've thought about this a lot and this is something you and I talked about on the podcast. I think the, when we did the game three podcast, it's something I've talked about with other folks about like, how much do you guard your heart with these things? And how much do you, you know, to, to watch your team win a, a, a title?

I remember I remember the feeling when the Colts won the Super Bowl and how I remember driving I was I would watch the that whole night was weird but I remember I watched it somewhere in Indianapolis and I was driving downtown to go meet my then girlfriend where she was working. And I remember driving through downtown Indy in the dead of

night. It was freezing cold that night and at the window down, just listening to people going nuts on the street and thinking this is so cool that the team I've rooted for and the the city that I mean, I'm not from Indianapolis, but I'm from Indiana. You know, Indianapolis is essentially the representative of Indiana on the on the national stage, won a major title. Now there are people who live in cities where this is commonplace.

If you're from Boston or Los Angeles or whatever it it doesn't, I don't think it hits the same. But for for Pacers fans, there's a bunch of complicating factors here. I think, at least in my mind, like AI, don't think if you'd polled Pacers fans at the beginning of the Bucks series and ask them like realistically, where do you think that these teams going to go? I don't think that they're saying they're going to win the Finals or even get to the Finals.

But then you've also had this whole thing where the Pacers got to the Finals and everybody said, well, that's a nice story. They've been fun to follow, but this Thunder team is way too good and they're going to overwhelm them. And then that didn't happen. But then you lose game four and it's like, well, we lost our chances, as you said multiple times in voice memos to me, and you know, they just were a

better team. Well, now you're in a game to go on the road, and yes, that's going to be incredibly difficult. And you have to essentially erase everything that you think that you knew not just from Game 6, but from the rest of the series. But you've essentially demonstrated that you are the equal of this historically good team in in in the NBA, in the Oklahoma City Thunder from this year. And to sit there on the precipice and not win is a

really, really hard thing. And you can't really think about how you'll feel one way or the other until after whatever happens in Game 7 happens. And I don't know how to like, what I mean by that is ultimately, as you said, a win or a loss is not going to erase how amazing this last couple of months have been. But a win, it's like, you know, famously, you know, Bob Knight right before the IU Syracuse game in 87, you know, they're talking about it.

And he's explained, you know, to all the guys like, hey, this has been a a really great run. You guys have really acquitted yourself as well. The last thing he says before he leaves the locker room is no one's going to remember you if you finish second, which which by the way, sounds great when you win, if you lose, it's like, damn it, Bob, like that's bad. But it but it does it it it puts a different it it puts a completely different wrapping on all the things that we just

discussed. If you win the title. And to be sitting here in a season and in a playoffs that most people didn't think the Pacers would get even into the finals, let alone to a game 7A decisive game.

And to have demonstrated that they can play with the Thunder, that they can beat the Thunder, not just in close games, but they can blow them out, man, it would be tough to make it that far and not come away with it. And I was thinking about this in relation to IU football because we just had a magical run. And I look back very fondly on that. I went to the game at Notre Dame, as did you. And again, I think the difference is, you know, we had never been anywhere near those heights.

The Pacers have been to the finals that, you know, the Eastern Conference finals last year. But also, you know, being honest, it's like, all right, I if we had beaten in Notre Dame, where we going to go beat Georgia? Like then could we have beaten Penn and there's like four more steps? It's like I I can look back on last year, like damn, that was awesome. Like that was great. It ended in a loss as most everyone's teams do. I don't I wasn't heartbroken with that one.

This one is different because it's so close. If there there is no more big bosses like this is the end of Mario Brothers. It's you looking at God, what's the dragon or whatever the guy's name is? Bowser. Bowser at the you're you're staring at Bowser. There is no, you know, man well, but we probably wouldn't have beaten the Thunder. It's like, no, this is it, Like this is all there is to it. And I'm I'm with you. It's probably going to hurt.

I I love how you said that. Like how guarded am I with my heart? Because I'm honestly not sure I'm trying to. You, you, you have been all over the map. You're not the only one. I mean it really. I, I really, I don't know how to. I'm trying to guard it but I want to enjoy it. I really don't know how to handle this. Now, I, well, I don't think there's, there's not a manual for how to handle these kinds of

things. I think most people who have, who have either been fans of this team or people that have hopped on the bandwagon relatively recently and, and just, you know, just started to get into it. It's this is uncharted territory for everybody in this fan base. Like, the the furthest the Pacers ever went was game six of the Finals. And that series felt like it was over, you know, after games. Yeah, you know, And so this this

series felt like it was over. And I think everybody went in and was like, we're going to give it one last go in game bridge. And then the Pacers doing this, it's like flung the shutters wide open again. And everybody's like, Oh my God, where, where, where are we in the mix of all of this? And so I am really excited to see what happens. It's going to be an amazing experience watching this game. What's your plan? So I I immediately looked on StubHub.

I probably should have looked at what's the new website you told me. Game. Time, game time, I need to look at that. I was so I I, I will give you my thought process because I've been kind of a guy who's been saying forever, Hey, man, if the I use ever in a final four, I'm going, you know, price be damned. If I use in the BCS, I'm going price be damned. And Pacers would have been there. Prices would have been damned.

It would have been high. But I was like, all right, you know, and I, I've been, dude, I've been going to games with my, my son over the last two or three years. He loves basketball. This is the perfect age for him. I told him, like, dude, you're my ride or die. Like I'm going, we're either, we're doing Game 7 together either at home or like, I'm not going to ditch you.

No, But I thought about it for 12 1/2 seconds when I looked at the prices, like, am I going to pay like 12 1/2, you know, $1200 for my son to go? But. I mean game time has has tickets at 881 in the upper bowl. I know I've so but here's my thought is tough analysis. We're either going to win or lose, but like if we. If we. Lose If we lose, like it, it would be cool to see the trophy thing, but that would be heartbreaking. And then it's like, then I got

to fly home. It's like it's done all that. Even if we win, it would be awesome. But I'd be like itching to get home. Like I'd want to see my wife, like I want to see my friends. Like I'd be like, when's the parade like and somebody has to fly home and I, I realize like I have great friends and family here, obviously like I'm going to just do a watch party at my house. My neighbor actually has a great set up with a pool and an outdoor TV.

We might do a watch party there. And I was like, you know what? I, I as cool as it would be to be in the arena, it's a lot of work and it probably would be a little bit like sad that night either way. Just going to a random Holiday Inn in Oklahoma City, even knowing I've won, just being like, I, I have no one to talk to about it. I. I've decided like, I think that's the right move for me. So I'm doing an outdoor watch party and that's, that's, that's my mindset.

Where are you at? I, I am actually working an event that night, but I will be, I will be in a spot where I can watch the game with people. I'm not going to get to choose the venue. Well, no, I mean, these these are people I don't mind watching the game with, but yeah, it's I mean, it's going to be a different kind of environment certainly. But look, I again, I don't think you could make long term plans around game seven of the NBA Finals in terms of what you were going to do to watch.

It would have been cool to go and and witness it one way or the other, But it's it's a lot of money and it's also just one of those things where you're so much of what we've watched in this series has been from a distance, but it's been amazing to watch from a distance. I mean, you know, some of the most memorable elements of this this whole streak have been on the road, whether it was game five of the Cavs series or whether it was game one of the Knicks series or whether it was

game one of the finals. I mean it, it's so I'm used to watching it on TV. And actually I'm, I'm, I am kind of glad I'm going to have to watch it in a different location because in the finals I am, let's see, I'm 2 and O in person at at Gainbridge. I'm one and one watching it upstairs pub. I'm Owen one watching from my house and I'm Owen one watching from Kilroy's in downtown Indy. So I I needed another venue and I was rapidly running out of places to go. And so we're going to change up

the mojo, go to a new location. Hopefully that ends up working out for us. Office lounge is pissed. They're like, man, we're going this 18. We could have gotten Galen for one game. I used to just like go to Chili's, you know, hit the bar up. It was popular the last time the Pacers were in The Who knows Eric? Blooming on you. That's back up somebody else. All right, we're done. Yeah, it's so.

We'll see what. Happens and obviously predictions it's just it's I just I I think it'll be a close game. I just you haven't seen Game 7 blowouts. It's just, it is. I was shocked at how few there have been. When you go back, it's like I remember the Knicks, Rockets one where Starks went like one for 18 and it's like that. There's only been three since then. It's. Just wild. I mean, the, the one thing that will play a big role in all of this is do you get a neutral whistle in this game?

You know is the is the game called? At this point, like we're done trying to extend the series.

Right. Well, that's that's the question, you know, and it's like, and no one knows who the refs are going to be. And I have a lot of people have been like, no, Scott Foster's. I don't know if Scott Foster's really that big of a deal in a in a take away game, unless he just calls a janky, you know, Start Stop type of game like you did in game 4I mean you had you had Tony Brothers back who did not cover himself in glory with his officiating in Game 6.

And it didn't matter. But the you know, it was interesting because the physicality that the Thunder like to engage in was getting penalized early in the game yesterday in a way that it hadn't in some of the other games. And so at home for the Thunder. Yeah. Oh, right. And that's the big question. Like how much do the does the do the officiate officials lean into that? How well do the Pacers shoot on the road? How well do the role players for Oklahoma City play?

How but ultimately it's like how well does the Pacers defense and energy travel in this game is going to be the question mark. I mean, I think the I mean, the Thunder I think are a 6 1/2 point favorite was what I was seeing. I think Pacers money line is like was like plus 260 this morning. We'll see where that goes. I mean, the the Thunder have to be considered the favorite because they've got the homecourt advantage. They have the MVP and they have a guy who's played about as well

as the MVP in this series. And that's a lot for the Pacers to overcome. The question is, can the Pacers get a good shooting game? You know, can they get Miles Turner on track? Can they get another good game out of Amahart offensively? And and, you know, do they do the Pacers pulling his defensive assignments back a little bit and not running him around as much, does that translate into offense the way it did in Game 6? Is Halliburton more right and able to do more in this game?

Is Siakam able to continue this steady, like 19 and 12 that he's been or 19 and eight that he's been averaging? Can try to break the slump. Well, right, yeah. I mean, there's there's so many and who's the guy that comes off the bench or is there a guy that comes off the bench? Like there's just so many different variables.

You know, I think you go in thinking that the Thunder or the favorite, but I also think you go in thinking the Thunder have all of the pressure because they are going to be in front of their fans and we've already seen their fans get nervous a couple of times in games and kind of go away from an energy perspective. I'm going to be really curious to see what ends up happening across the board in this one. I have no idea. I've I've looked at all the stats. I've thought about it a ton.

I have no idea where this game is going. It's going to be fascinating to watch though, every. Game in Oklahoma, the Pacers have gotten down by 10 or 15, and so I just history says that'll happen again. I just hope it doesn't because I was telling some about this earlier. Like I think going in we're probably a 30% favorite to win the game. It's like, I'll take it. That's fine.

But I, I was saying like the, the, the longer the game goes and the closer, if the Pacers are within 5 and half, I'd say we're 40%. And I'm like, if we can get to the fourth quarter and it's still a three, three to five point game, like we haven't gotten down by 10 or 15, we're having to just hustle back in. It's like I, I think it's a coin

toss at that point. It might even be the Pacers advantage for exactly what you said is like all the pressure is on the Thunder. This is all there's to lose. And, and just like, I mean, this is the last thing I will say, just like crowds can help you. I felt it before when when you're the favorite and you're not doing well, the crowd can get tight and that can push on to the players and suddenly it's

like they can be a weird energy. I felt that at Assembly Hall a couple games like in in some of those really nadir times where you're just not doing well and the crowd starts getting real antsy. It's a real thing and and it it negatively effects you as much as the positive energy can help you. And that's something where if the Pacers are up in the fourth quarter, I can see it getting real tight. The the the two things about the game that concern me the most are the very beginning and the

very end. Yeah. Because the Pacers have now multiple games in a row gotten off to really bad offensive starts. They dug themselves out of it in six. They didn't really ever dig themselves fully out of it in five. I mean, they did get back to within two, but it was. Game 2, they didn't ever got out of it. So I do worry about that, and I worry about the Pacers getting into a rhythm early, figuring out their offense while also playing tough defense.

But the other thing I do worry about at the end is something we've talked about a bunch, which is that whatever you think of SGA, he hits shots on his command and the Pacers don't really have a go to guy that they can go to on five or six consecutive possessions when you have to score. And they've shown they can defend SGA pretty well.

But this does this is the kind of game where if he is playing at an MVP level, you would expect him to, you know, be able to go out and and put a ton of points on the board and do so consecutive or consistently. I think it's going to be fascinating because you look at his last five games, he scored 21 points, 31 points, 35 points, 24 points and 34 points over the course of those games. That's, you know, from this last one back down, you know, he's, he's clearly comfortable with

taking 20 plus shots a game. They're probably gonna need that down the stretch. And I think the question for the Pacers is, can they keep scoring? Game 6 was the first game in this entire playoff run that the Pacers won without scoring 110 or more points or 100. And what was it not 100 and 10100. And yeah, 110 was the number. And they were able to do that because of their defense. And so they, they, they have to score in this game and they need to start that early.

I don't know what kind of legs either of these teams has, you know, 41% for both, 41% for the Pacers, 42% for the Thunder in Game 6. And you know, you go back and you look at what's happened in the other games in this series and Game 5. The what would the, what did the Pacers shoot in that? They shot 45% in that game. And Oklahoma City shot 43%. Like this.

The shooting percentage numbers have dropped for both of these teams as the series has gone on. Who has the legs left to actually get jump shots off and consistently hit them throughout? Or who can get to the rim most effectively? So anyway, we'll see what happens. Scott should be fascinating. Yep. Yes, Sir. There you go. All right.

Well, we appreciate you folks sticking with us as we recap what happened in Game 6IN preview, a game seven in the NBA Finals of the Pacers taking on the Oklahoma City Thunder with a chance to win the Pacers first ever franchise NBA title. Also a chance for the Thunder to do the same. So for Scott, I'm Galen, this is Crimson Cast. We appreciate you joining us folks and we will catch you on the flip side. Yes, sirs, Pacers in seven catch you folks on the flip side, solo everybody.

Sorry, I said flip side twice. I just got too excited there, folks.