And good afternoon folks and welcome to another emergency podcast on the back home network. Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield and Tony Adronia joining you here on a combined episode of Film Room and Crimson Cast. We got assembly call, people may be joining us later, but we had a bunch to talk about and we're like, what better time to do it then in the middle of a little five week as Indiana signs 2 new players to the men's basketball roster within the last 24 hours.
And it's been 3 new players actually since the last time we did an emergency podcast. Scott, Tony, it's great to see you both. Scott, let me start with you. Great to see you in the middle of a Friday, obviously. And you were worried a couple of weeks ago that this roster wasn't going to have enough people on it, are you? Are you feeling better now? I guess would be my question. I was never worried. I just, I made a joke that we had like you were terrified. What are you talking about?
Throwing things on me. No, no, I was. I was not terrified. I just made the comment like after a couple years of inept, you know, roster building, having no one on the, you know, and are people getting their work done. What I think is funny is I, I think this all comes down to you, Galen, because what we need is you being more busy because we texted earlier in the week like, hey, should we do something like, no, I'm busy. I'm like, oh, it makes sense. And then like, Nope, we got to
do 3 emergency pots. Like, so we need more on your plate. We just need to give you more things to do in your calendar and maybe we'll be signing more people or even better people. More on my calendar is really a frightening proposition. I got to say that let's let's avoid that if at all possible. Tony you're drawing you back and joining us once again Tony business appears to be pretty good for Indiana basketball right now.
It's it's heartening and, and certainly we're going to get into each of these individual players here in a little bit. But you know, we talked a while back about the way that Darren Devries and his staff, whoever they are at this point, are trying to go about this. And as you would say in the relationship business, it seems like Darren Devries has a type. And man, he's finding his type right now it looks like, at least from the statistics. He's hot.
He's on a roll. Yeah, he's he certainly has a type. And, you know, it's, it's good to see that Indiana certainly, you know, we'll, we'll get into the types that we were talking about, But you know, Indiana is building a roster right now that looks like it's ready to play some modern basketball. And, and it's funny, you know, the, the kind of gripes I've heard is like, where are the big
men? Like, you know, it's like you have to. We're an abusive relationship that we're trying to get out of. It's like we got to free ourselves of the big man thing. Like it's fine. We don't not we don't have to have a 7 footer. It's OK. Or four of them, certainly, I think. Yeah. Next year at games, I'm just going to go to every game and yell, throw it in the post, get in the post. We need more post play just. It, it's crazy.
I mean, like, it really is like Indiana fans have been conditioned to watch a style of basketball that like at this point, folks are wondering like, you know, how how are they going to compete without, you know, these 7 footers? And it's like, I think they'll be just fine.
Yeah, facts, Scott, facts. But yeah, it's, it's an exciting time, you know, getting 2 commitments back-to-back, one seemingly kind of coming out of nowhere and Sam Alexis, you know, didn't, didn't visit and and just kind of pops all the sudden. I think Joe Tipton had the the tip, no pun intended, but yeah. So it's, it's, it's been good and you know, whenever there's good things happening, we have these emergency podcasts. I get to talk to you guys.
So that's the the cherry on top. Well, somebody's advocating for you to be head coach. I think, let I think what we Tony, we've been talking about GMs. I'm just like, let's, let's make Tony the GM. I've I would be totally fine with that move. But before we talk about the individual players and and Scott, maybe when we start with you on this, but I want to hear from both of you.
What I am fat and you kind of mentioned this with the the the the most recent addition, Tony. Like it is shocking how quiet these recruitments have been. You know, we often times are only finding out that a guy visited the day that it's happening or maybe we find out afterwards. And Scott, this has been perhaps the leakiest basketball program in terms of news and stuff going on with the program.
It feels like for the longest time, it is jarring in some ways how unleaky things have been with this program since Darren Debris got the town. And from honestly, I know a lot of people like we're so used to having information that we shouldn't have about IU basketball. I'm I love it like I love. It's almost like I'm getting bought presents that I have know nothing about. And and then they suddenly like, like, Hey, you've got a new
player. Whether or not these end up being the right pieces per SE, it's refreshing that we don't know everything that's going on with IU basketball. Well, and I think that's where like the text you keep joking about. But I think a lot of people did feel that, you know, after so many years of, of just leaks and hearing tons of rumors to, to hear nothing for the first couple of weeks of the portal and then also have no signings.
It's like, well, this isn't good because I'm used to hearing a lot of stuff and there's all this fire and like, so there's no fire, there's no smoke, but but you know, you, you have faith and it is all getting put together. So no, it's, it's nice. And I, I keep joking. It feels like my coaching staff is now working. When I go to bed at night, they're, they're out doing things. Things are being done. I don't need to see it or hear it.
And then things just come. And I just want to highlight one of the things Tony said. He's got a type like he really does. It is. And what's really cool is it's a type of the type. And whether it works or not, like you said, who knows, but that kind of 6367, you know, multiple 3 and D type shooter, it's kind of cool because we just saw that type a lot in the Final four in a lot of teams. And it is nice to see that our coach has a type that does seem to be on other teams that is
working as well. More three than D. Yeah, Yeah, it's very true. It is. It is like 3 and the hit on the way out of the locker room, just more than three and another three and another three maybe some D later on. No, but Tony, I mean first your thoughts about the the new almost wall that's around the IU basketball program and how different it looks from what we've seen in the past? I'm with you.
I really like it and I honestly, I think some of that is just from like the new landscape, like the more it leaks of guys visiting and you're in talks with them. Other schools can then get that information, get involved up in Illinois, all that, all that different stuff. But no, it's great. I mean, last year it was like mid February and I was already hearing Miles Rice and Cane and Carlisle. We're coming to Indiana. You know, there's there's been none of that this this year.
And and like you said, I think the other day it kind of got leaked that Nick Dorn was on campus because somebody just happened to see him in Devries out in the golf cart. You know, they're like Devries is out with like some really big dudes in a golf cart. Like anybody got any word on this? So like, I love it. You know, I think that, you know, as the saying goes, real G's move in silence, like Adronia is the saying, right?
That's. Fine, my new name is Alan Clavio. Can I just, I want to one other piece of this too. The last two years, so much of the noise has been around the money, you know, oh, like we're, you know, it's $2,000,000 for this guy or, you know, Indiana's got that. Like the rumors always seem to be around money. I'm sure a lot of these guys, all of them are getting some kind of nil deal. But I think it's really refreshing that we're we're
seeing these signings. But at least for me, it's like I'm not hearing all of the rumors about, oh, it's this dollar amount, that dollar amount. It it does seem to again, be more about, you know, these are the guys that Devries wants to get on his team and these are the right players, less about just us as Tony would like. Just geez, throwing money around you. It's it's, I find that very refreshing where it doesn't feel like we're just going on a shopping spree.
Spending money and it's all about the money it it seems to be more about the players again, knowing that there is nil behind it right. So let's talk about these players. Let's dive in so three players since we last talked to you all directly about this and you know the first one that we'll I think well, who do you want to start with Tony? Give me a we've got three we've got Doran, we've got Alexis, we've got Drake I think well, let's save Alexis for last. We want to start with Doran.
Sure, let's do it. So give us give us the breakdown on Nick Doran. Nick Doran, transfer guard from Elon, 6 feet, 7 inches tall, two years of eligibility remaining. Give us the breakdown on his game as far as you've seen it in the film. I'm going to show some B roll underneath you while you're talking.
Sure. Yeah, with Doran, kind of a lot of these guys I want to caveat it with like some statistics are almost worth throwing out the window with guys that are coming from, let's say an Elon where they are high usage because they're the best player and the best talent on their team, which really isn't how they're going to be utilized at Indiana. So with Dorn, I think he's more so being brought in to kind of be that three and D guy that Scott talked about.
He shot over almost 200 threes last season at a 35% clip. What I really liked about him is where I think he's going to thrive at Indiana is is as a secondary playmaker and really getting open catch and shoot looks, which is kind of you know, you're going to have Conner way and you're going to have Wilkerson that are that are going to have the ball in their hands a lot going to create things. You're going to have Tucker Devries who a lot of the offense
is going to be run through. So when you have guys like that, other guys are going to be open because they're going to attack driving lanes, whatever the case is. So with Doran, as you can see here from the outside on catch and shoot, unguarded threes, I believe is a effective field goal percentage last season was 75%. And so when Darren Devries is building this roster, I think he's looking at very specific things of, OK, here's how I'm
going to utilize this guy. What are his numbers looking like in that regard? And so for for Dorn, being able to knock down threes at a high clip, especially open ones where he's not forcing a shot off the dribble or something like that, and more so just getting a catch and shoot. Look, it's it's awesome. You know, he he he put up great numbers in that regard. He also rebounds the ball well.
I think 4, 4 rebounds per game. Indiana, you know, as we talked about, a lot of guys are worried about the size Indiana may not have, but the Freeze is also getting guys that can rebound the ball from guard spots, from wing spots. Dorn's another one of those that can go get some rebounds.
So for me, I really like to pick up, again, think he's somebody that that'll be utilized in a very specific role and they're going to have an idea of what he's able to do while while he's great in the catch and shoot, he can put the ball in the deck, get to the rim and finish a bit. But I think you're going to see most of his work done from the outside and then have a lot of length on defense and versatility on the defensive end where he can guard multiple positions.
You know, whether that be, you know, more of a big man in the Big 10 setting or or can step out on the perimeter and guard a wing. I think that's something that Debris really liked about Dorn's game. Scott, I mean you, you got a chance to look at his stats a little bit. Any any general thoughts to start with on on Nick Dorn? One thing that's interesting is last year Balo shot 156 free throw attempts. All that B roll footage you're showing of Doran is, you know,
catch and shoot looks great. He shot 105 free throws last year, hitting 81% of them. And that's that's a ton of free throws for a small guard who's also doing a lot of shooting. Now, as, as Tony said, how he's going to be utilized in the IU offense, we don't know. But to to me, that's the stat
that really stood out. Is a a player of that size able to get to the line and also cover your ears shooting free throws at 80.1% clip with 100. I mean, nobody else on IU last year shot over 100 free throws except for Balo. So having a guard come in who's able to get that get to the line that much is nice. Again, I'm not sure he's going to shoot 100 free throws if he's going, you know, if he's going to have that much of the offense.
But it's a really nice other feather to have in a in a guard like this where it's not just shooting, but the ability to get to the line and shoot at 81%. So to me, that was the one stat that really stood out outside of the other things Tony was talking about. Yeah. I think the thing with Doran that I find fascinating is he was on the way to an A pretty impressive statistical performance on what was not a great team.
I mean, Elon was I think around 200th and Kenpom, but he missed the last eight games or not eight games of the season with a lower extremity injury. So we're not totally sure what that was. But like, prior to that, this is a guy that was logging north of 30 minutes a night on a nightly
basis. Like he missed the last eight games of the season and still played 59% of available minutes for Elon during this last year, you know, And so the the fact that he had a really high offensive rating, he was a really efficient scorer and used a ton of possessions again, without turning the ball over very much. This is a theme I keep saying over and over again, not so much in the point guards. And, and, and maybe this is Tony, indicative of what Darren Devries's vision is.
You can deal with turnovers from your point guards because they're facilitating, but he really seems to be targeting guys who know how to enforce ball security and take care of the basketball when they are the point of like the, the, the where the ball is being distributed to, I guess is what I'm saying. Do you see that as well?
Yeah, certainly so and you know, especially from guys that are kind of secondary playmakers, those are guys that when the balls reverse to them, you can't have them make a silly decision when they're whether they're driving, shooting and just turn the ball over. And so like you said, in that regard, very strong and with their, their primary playmakers, maybe a little bit of a higher turnover rate, like you noted, but their assist rates are off the chart.
And that's again, kind of the, the type, if you will, of, of Darren Devries are guys that are, are able to pass the ball. You know, ball movement is at a premium. And if you can move the ball, you can move the defense. If you can move the defense, you open up driving lanes, you open up driving lanes, you open up shots. And so it, it's a great thing to see that that these are the kind
of guys that he's targeting. And yeah, with, with a Dorn, you know, as Scott said, he's able to get to the line, really makes good decisions, doesn't shoot a lot of bad shots necessarily. And when he gets to the rim, he's going to go up strong. And I think he drew 4.4 fouls per 40, so you know, that was in the top. 500 yeah, that's and that goes back to exactly what Scott said. I mean, he's he can draw fouls and he can hit free throws when he gets to the free throw line.
This is also a guy that's got two years of eligibility left, which I think is we've asked a lot. Some people have been like, wow, like they're really loading up on on 5th year guys, six year guys, guys that aren't going to have another year necessarily after that.
We talked in the last podcast about how that's not the worst thing in the world in as much as you really do need to have an experienced team to go out there and be able to reconstitute around a new roster, new roles, but know how to play basketball, know how to be effective in positions. You're a lot more likely to get that with veterans, but you do want to have some people that you can say, hey, we're going to bring you up and develop you in this process.
You might play a role this year, but you'll play a bigger role next year. You know, Scott, like in the new roster era, that's about the best you can hope for in terms of bringing guys into the roster and trying to build beyond the year. Because as we've seen it with teams like Baylor, you can have years where everybody's gone. Can you set it up so you've at least got a few pieces to build
around for the following year? Yeah, it it's like we're slaying old Dragons because wasn't that always the Korean thing? It's like we just need to get guys in the locker room who, who know the culture and trying to build the culture. No, I mean that was something I kept looking at like the inside the hall scholarships page for a while where you're, you're seeing the, you know, 252016 get built, but you look out and just like Sicily just on his own for three years.
It is nice. You now have, you know, with Dorn, Drake, Miles and Sicily, you have 4 players who are committed past this next season. You know, you still have a couple more spots like I could see that getting to 5 or 6. And to me that's that's kind of a good spot because some people are going to leave, you know, this it's a newer era of both. I think the where we're going to play basketball, which will be nice, but altered with roster construction.
But you know that I think this also, you know, I, I think people have been concerned, but I also think you have to understand how much debris is going to have to do here and how much was was, you know, you're, you're flipping over an entire roster. You've got to sign 12 to 15 players. And then you also have to figure out how do I do that in a way where it kind of stretches out
over 4 years? You know, you're getting a, a mix of those players, you're getting players that you want, but you're also getting guys who are juniors and sophomores. And you know, that that's, that's not always going to be easiest. And I do think, you know, in his mind, Debris is probably having to make some, you know, is it the player that I want? Is it the, the, are they in the amount of eligibility that I want?
Things like that. But it does seem like he's he's threading the needle pretty well there and you're getting some, you know, four players for next year. You hope you get a couple more recruits lined up. I I think we're in a good. Spot there. The last thing I'll say on Nick Dorn. The only downside to Nick Dorn is I can already hear the pun makers talking about the Dorn identity or the Doran ultimatum. If he ever hit you just. Put it in the universe, it's
over. It's, it's gonna and it's actually almost unfortunate cause the next guy we're going to talk about, his first name is Jason. You could have had a Jason Doran here and it would have made it even worse. So anyway, we just wanted to get that out there anyway, let's. Talk about hang on real quick, how about Nick Doran? Let's not let's not talk about the sample size, but against Tier A competition 146 offensive rating, it may or may not have just been one game, but.
Hey, you know what Everybody else is dishonest about statistics, Tony. Why can't we be too? I love that, though. Yeah, that that one game was a was a really good game against Notre Dame, was the MVP of that game. I had a 164 offensive rating in that game and scored 24 points. Was was just a monster out there. So anyway, let's let's move on to our next player, which is Jason Drake. Tony, take it away. Talk a little bit about him as
we roll some B roll. Yeah, we've got a, we've got a, a Drake. We've got, we've got all kinds of fun names going on here. We've got a Lamar, you know. But yeah, with Jason Drake, you know, guy from Drexel averaged 11 points a game. Again, another guy that, that passing is at a premium with what he's able to do. I believe over 3 assists per game, assist rate, that's around 25. Again, another guy that that shot over 100 threes last year shot at a 39 percent .6% clip.
Again, that is part of the type that we've talked about with with Darren Devries is that a guy in Drake's mold can pass, he can shoot, he's going to move the basketball. 62 guards. So a little bit kind of a smaller guard doesn't necessarily fit like the mold, but still 6 twos. Not 510, so still has a little bit of size to to compete. But yeah, I really like his game. You know, 45% from from two. He was 91 for 200. So he can get to the rim a little bit as well as shoot from
the outside. Again, this is another guy that I think is going to be utilized kind of as a combo guard in the second unit. So can play with in right, but also could lead the offense if he needs to. Again, you saw some of his clips passing just a minute ago. These are some of his clips now from the outside, got a really quick release, shoots the ball well.
Again, somebody that can be on the floor with other playmakers, kind of be that that primary or secondary playmaker, depending on who else on the floor with them and can put the ball in the bucket. You know, and that's just something that Indiana hasn't had a lot of in the past pretty much decade. You know, you go back to Crean's last year all the way through Archie Miller and then Woody's era, you've had a playmaker here and there.
But the fact that you've got multiple guys now that that shoot the three shot over 100 threes in a season at almost a 40% clip. Again, you can you can kind of see how Devries wanted to build this roster and what he was kind of placing a premium on. Scott, as we look at these clips, I mean I'm drawing to a couple of things with this player 1. He is not afraid to go to the basket. He clearly has confidence in his
handles. He is not afraid to turn around and shoot is able to evade defenders pretty effectively, can pull up and and hit the you know the the shot from the mid range. Either you look at his assist rate and again, I, I go back to what I said a minute ago, like his assist rate's a little over 1 to one in terms of assist to turnover ratio. But you know, playing on a team that didn't have a lot of great options offensively as this
Drexel team did. Still pretty impressive that he was able to rack up a a A+ category offensive rating and you know, was able to distribute the ball very effectively, shot the ball very well from outside. Looks like he needs to work on his layup conversions a little bit. His he was a little under statistically in close twos.
I only shot 54%, which really isn't nearly good enough, but I love the athleticism and he he just seems like the type of guy that you can bring in off the bench and plug in and not really lose as much as you might otherwise. And we've seen this with Indiana in the past couple of years, really for the last seven or eight years when they've lost their primary ball handler because they have to sit him down, they have nobody else to go to.
It feels like Indiana's got at least a couple of options now that can come off the bench and not really miss a step, and that's really exciting. What's interesting is like, I feel like we're just doing copy and paste from the Doran discussion here, which again goes to this nice, like you can just bring people in because they all do a lot of similar things. Again, I'm I'm looking at Drake. You know, everything Tony said is, is on point.
Drake shot 68 free throws last year and shot at 85%. That would have put him fifth most free throws in the team and second highest free throw percentage. So again, another guy who's shooting a lot of threes, but also able to get to the line. You know it, as you said, it feels like he has a he has a type. What I think is funny, and this is something Galen you've gotten me into kind of playing around with is we're getting some of these players from these mid major teams.
Just looking through, you know, some of the teams they played his first year he was on Cleveland State. The team they played the first, the first game of the of the season was Notre Dame of Ohio. So there's that team. But then that last year he played for Drake. The first team they played was Georgian Court, which sounds like they might, might be in charge of picking the new Pope
as well as playing basketball. But I just think of like, paraphrasing the night thing, like it just debris being like, Georgian Court's not going to be coming on the court tomorrow. Like this isn't Georgian Court you're going to be facing next week. Or maybe we just go the other way around. We just play somebody completely insane as our first game of the year. So yeah, unfortunately. Notre Dame of Ohio is not even a school anymore. There you go.
That's funny. You know the this, this is also an interesting pick up from my perspective. Just, you know, it, it felt a little redundant when I first saw it. But the more I've dug in to looking at what type of player this is and what he might bring to the table, the more I'm like, there's almost the potential for three very different looks with the same personnel that you're drawing off of. Someone in the chat pointed out by you right now only has three guys under 65 and everybody can
shoot. And I think that that's that's one of the key things where it's like you can be flexible in your lineups in a way that Indiana has not been in a long time Now, Tony, I think knows this. Scott definitely knows it because they've he's heard the news about it. Like one of my favorite teams of all time was that Illinois team from 1989, the team that lost in the Final four. And what made that team so fascinating to watch was they were comprised very similar to what it feels like Darren
Devries is doing. I'll be it with less of an emphasis on outside shooting, a bunch of interchangeable players where you can run a lineup of four guys that are between 65 and 69, which in the modern game, Tony, means you can switch everything, which I know you've been a big advocate for in certain circumstances for a while. And what we see out of the offensive games of all these players is they all seem to share some similar characteristics. They all have a quick release.
None of them seem afraid to either shoot or put the ball on the floor. And they seem to all hunt space. And, and now you've got with Drake, a guy that can do that, but can also serve as a distributor if they're going to be working through a couple of different units or a couple of different looks every game. Knowing that you're going to have with any shooters, you know, you're going to have situations where a guy's going to have an off night.
But unlike what you've seen where it's like, well, if Luke Goody has an off night or if Mackenzie Mbacco has an off night or Miller cop has an off night, you're screwed. From outside, it feels like Indiana's got a bunch of fail safes to say, well, if that doesn't work, we'll try a different lineup and we might have the same success that that to me feels. And you're not, you're not loading with five stars here, but you're loading with guys
that can do those things. And that is really intriguing to me. Yeah, and a lot of guys that that can create shots for themselves, for others. And then you've got the secondary pieces like a Drake that that can do both, but also in catch and shoot situation.
So that's that's what's so important about some of these numbers too to me is that, you know, you can look at 3 point percentage, but it's like, OK, how many of those were late clock threes or off the dribble threes that they had to pull or, you know, or we're allowed to shoot? You know, some of these guys are coming from programs where maybe shot selection wasn't at a premium. So that's the things that Darren Devries and his staff dive into where it's like, OK, let's throw these out.
Let's look at these numbers. And obviously synergy helps break a lot of that down. Like for Drake, you know, he was 39% three-point shooter, but in in catch and shoot situations unguarded, you know, he was 69%. And so you look at things like that and like, OK, well, if I've got Connerway creating, he swings it to Wilkerson one more over to Drake and he's in shooting a wide open corner three, I think he's going to hit
that. So those are the things as there as he's building his team, he knows the offense in the system that he's going to run. He understands like, OK, well, if I put guys in these spots, this is where they'll thrive. And I think that's kind of what Indiana's been missing is like, OK, this guy scores in this way, let's get him the ball there.
To me, Indiana, over the last eight years, it really more so has just been like, here's my offense, this is my system, run it. But it didn't really necessarily have a rhyme or reason to match the skill sets of the team. Unless it was get the ball to Romeo Langford, get the ball to Trace Jackson Davis, get the ball to Malik Renew or Omar Barlow. Like that's been the end goal of the offenses here over the course of the last several years. And it's really what you missed.
I mean, the Korean era at its best, you would have a night where Cody Zeller was clearly going to be the focal point of the offense. We'd have another light where it was going to be Victor Oladipo or it was going to be Christian Wofford or it was going to be, you know, Thomas Bryant. Like you had that flexibility and, and it's been so rigid that when it worked, like when Jalen Huchafino has the game of his life at Mackie Arena and goes off, OK, great, hey, we won.
But it was, it never felt remotely sustainable because it was impractical for those guys to have those types of games consistently. And then it does feel, and obviously we got to wait till they play the games, but it feels a lot less like you're banking on the same thing having to happen every time in order to be successful. And that is such a radically different approach from what we've seen Indiana doing here over the course of the last
eight years. And it's almost hard to conceive of. So I I get where people are like, I'm still not sure how this works because you haven't seen it. I don't blame you. But the pieces are there. Let's talk about the third piece, Scott. I'm going to we'll start on this one with the this was the mystery guy and everybody was surprised. But coming in from the defending national champions, although he didn't get to play too much
because of injury this year. Sam Alexis, 6-8 right now, although it's interesting because it's inside the Hall noted he was 69 last year when he played for Chattanooga, 6-8 this year with Florida. I doubt he shrunk, but this is a player that even in relatively limited minutes this year, certainly was functional as a player. And even though he barely played, once you got past about the first seven games of the season prior to those injuries, this was a plus Offensive rating player.
In every game that he played he was contributing minutes wise like he had games 1614201417. He had several games in double digit minutes for a Florida team that went on and won the national championship. This feels like an under the radar signing that's going to look weird on paper statistically, but this guy's clearly got a lot of ability
around the basket. I mean, look at some of these put backs and rebounds and and overall things that he's doing in the lane offensively for people that are looking for the big man. This isn't A7 footer, but this is a guy who clearly knows his way around the post. Yeah. I mean, the first thought that I had with this signing was Anthony Walker just off of, you know, a team that year with Miami that went to the Final Four who was kind of a lower level contributor.
And I don't mean that as a knock because if you look at Walker's stats when he played, you know, two years ago, he did, he got statistically better with Indiana. He just wasn't used as much. But he everything he did at Miami, he did more efficiently and increased at Indiana. So I can see something similar here with Alexis where you, you could just take this and just continue to grow it with what he's doing at Florida to, you know, what you see in Indiana.
To me, the biggest difference in Walker and, and Alexis though, is that Indiana already had like 4 Walkers on the roster when they signed him with Alexis. You know, he, he fits a need. Like they, they need a guy that can protect the rim going to rebound, bring a different energy. Like, you know, more than likely going to come off the bench and kind of, you know, it's going to probably be Reed Bailey at the five. It's going to be a different
type of energy. And when Alexis comes in and plays the five, like I said, protects the rim a little bit more, so maybe the guards can get a little bit more aggressive because they can get beat and there's still somebody there to protect the rim. You know, I had some people that were like, I don't really like the signing. I don't see it. And it's like, OK, well, let's say we get Indiana's getting a kid from Chattanooga that average 11 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks per game.
I think everybody's pretty Dang excited about that. Well, those were his numbers before he transferred to Florida. Kind of got buried on the bench a little bit like Galen said, had an injury so then didn't get to play the last 8-9 games of the season. So to me he fits a need right. And so that's the biggest thing that is important to me is it's like there's a coherent plan for how this roster needs to be built.
There was a coherent plan for how Indiana needed to land a guy of Sam Alexis's skill set and they went out and got him seemingly without him ever even visiting campus. You know I. Think he I think he visited and we just didn't hear about it potentially, but who knows. Yeah, at the very least it was. It was a stealth operation, kind of came out of nowhere. Yeah, I mean, and again, as we talked about earlier, that's good. You want to be able to move undercover of darkness in this
era. But yeah, I'm really struck that you you really hit the nail on the head, Tony, in terms of like you look at the numbers he had coming out of Chattanooga. He was in the nearly in the top 200 and effective field goal percentage as a six nine guy. That's hard to do. He was 187th in the country in two point field goal percentage his sophomore year. He was 37th in the country in block percentage. He was 43rd in the country in
defensive rebounding percentage. Like this guy was a dynamite pick up for Florida in terms of athleticism. Now, it turned out they didn't need him, but they just won the national title. So we probably shouldn't read too much into that, especially since he clearly had an injury that limited him throughout the course of the second or the last
2/3 of the season. So when I look at this, I say there's you clearly have to take on faith that he's going to rise to the occasion and be a guy that can play regularly. But I agree with you, Tony, if you've got Reed Bailey as your five, but this is a guy who can come in and play it. Either the four or the five change the energy. He's very bouncy like this is this may be one of the two or three most athletic players that Indiana has pulled so far in the
portal. He clearly knows how to control his body in the post and as someone pointed out with the Trace Jackson Davis size comp like you can have an effective center that's not 7 feet tall. It requires a different defensive approach. But again, if you if you're able to limit the disadvantages that you are facing by being able to switch, if that's indeed how they decide to go defensively, it makes that less of a big deal.
Yes, you're still going to have big guys that you will attack or have to attack, but that's where good positioning and good technique can combat things. It's not like all of the teams that had 7 foot centers automatically won everything this year. Many of them were almost like handcuffed to some degree because of the problems that they ran into on the other end. And those guys get in foul trouble a lot easier than the six, nine guys do.
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to me, it's just it's such a mindset shift that I understand why there's some some kind of like consternation from Indiana fan. First of all, Reed Bailey isn't short some for some reason, his six 10611 stature continues to kind of get overlooked because of the way he plays the game offensively.
But he's still not he's 66106 eleven depending on what site you look at. And then you've got a guy in Sam Alexis that that clearly Todd Golden saw something in to to go, you know, pull him in last season to a national championship roster. You know, this isn't a guy that that Devries is is going to be counting on for 2530 minutes a game. This is a guy that you plug in in spurts or you're playing more of an athletic center or Ree Bailey gets a foul strip or whatever the case may be.
You know, where he might play 20 minutes maximum. But really you're looking at more of a sweet spot between like 12 and 15 perhaps for for him to play. And it just give you a different look in a different type of energy. And so, and also like, I know this is is kind of breaking news, perhaps Indiana fans, but like, he doesn't have to play with only second unit players. Wait, I thought we had to. Don't we have to change the entire line up at the 12 minute mark of every game?
And so, you know, you plug him in with with a more athletic lineup or, or some of the starting lineup and, and whatnot and gives him a different look from a ball screen standpoint. He because Reed Bailey's going to be more of a pick and pop threat or he's going to be more of a pick and roll threat, catching lobs at the rim again, aggressive on the offensive rebounding front. And so I like to pick up, you know, it's it, it fits a need that Indiana needs.
So this is where maybe we take the remainder of this conversation. We'll go for another 10 minutes or so on the show here, but we've heard a lot of question marks about what exactly what's left. I mean, so like Jim actually asked a good question. What is the second unit on this team? So let's let's quickly I want to I want to call up the the latest Ken Pom comp thing with that I sent Tony earlier. Let me let me pull this up real fast. Let's see if this is right. Yep, there it is.
So here's here's your Ken Pom comparison page. Now of all the players, I've got Luke Goody on there still. We've had a lot of questions about whether Luke Goody is going to get his waiver. I still think he's going to get the waiver, but I don't have any actual factual evidence to back that up. It's just a feeling on my part. But let's look at this roster as it currently stands. So you got Tatan Conner way at six. Three seems likely to be the starting point guard.
You've got Tucker Debris, who's likely to a get a waiver and maybe be the starter at the three, I would guess, feel free to agree with you, maybe the four. You've got Lamar Wilkerson, who seems destined to be the starting two. You've got Reed Bailey, who's likely the starting 5 right now. And then you've got a bunch of different options that either the three or four that you could
plug in given who's there. So you've also got Connor Enright, who's going to probably get a significant number of minutes, but probably not start at point, Sam Alexis, who we just talked about who could come in if you're playing a really big team and be your four. And that would change the perspective on the line of a bit. You've got Jason Drake who's clearly in the in the guard, the 1-2 category. You've got Nick Dorn, who we talked about earlier. And then you've got Goody.
That's the roster along with Trent Sisley, who plugs in out of four probably. And then you what? So you got what, 123456789? And if you've got and you've got Sicily at 10, Goody makes 11. You've got 13 scholarships. What do you see them doing with the remaining slots on this roster, Tony? Yeah, I could see them maybe looking at freshman for for one more spot, which would then put them at 12, assuming Goody gets the waiver or goes to court and wins or whatever the case is there.
And then maybe you sit on one open scholarship to see what happens in in summer ball. There are, you know, decommitments and, and things that happen there, you know, the the big kid out of Iceland that decommitted from Arizona State. Seems like there, there could be some, some traction there. But I would, I would love to get another freshman, maybe 2 into the fold just for what we had talked about previously.
As you get some continuity, some guys that that learn and then at the same time, too, freshmen are more likely to, you know, not get pissed if they're not playing. If you sell that to them from the start, you get 11-12 guys you pulled into the portal that you took you, you're seemingly selling them a role on, you know, on the team and all of a sudden they're not playing a lot. That can cause some consternation, locker room
issues, all that stuff. So to me, if you build up a roster where you have, you know, your 10 guys that you're probably going to play in your rotation at some point, maybe not each game, but at some point there's going to be those 10. And then you've got two or three that are, are development pieces that that you're really kind of looking towards the future with. To me, that's that's the happy medium to find. So that's kind of what I could envision them doing.
But I know too, like sometimes you just take best available, like, and then you figure it out later. So when you kind of have your roster how you want it and you've got a couple open spots, maybe now you really focus in on a Euro guy or something that that that you've been looking at. But to me, there's a. There's a couple different ways you could go here, but either
way, I like them. Finding guys that they can develop in their system, that they can have that continuity moving into next year, assuming they don't hit the portal. So I have a question for both of you guys on this is just looking at that roster for next year. And you know, I, I want to be
positive. I don't want to throw cold water on this, but you know, last year during during the off stage, you look, it's like, all right, you know, I can see where you know, Miles Rice is going to open the floor. If you got Bolo renew, you know, they can make it work. And we're always trying to look at the positive piece. I am curious and, and I look at this and I, I fully admit I like everything I'm seeing and I, I, I hear everything we're saying.
I'm just curious from both of your perspectives, if things don't work, why, what do you think would be the reason why what we see now isn't going to work? Or what could be some of the issues out there that, you know, maybe we should have been looking more at last year that we could look at, you know, looking ahead for next year? Well, I mean, I'll start on this, Tony. And I guess there's two big things I would look at. One is, can this team coalesce and play defense effectively?
And that's that's a big question mark. This is a lot more of a Creighton roster or a Drake roster for Darren Devries than it is the West Virginia roster that he had last year. That West Virginia roster had a lot of athleticism and a lot of defensive ability that I don't think it been tapped particularly well the previous season. He managed to harness that. He had to because he didn't have the offensive firepower after
the first part of the year. There's no guarantee that this group is going to be able to coalesce on that front because it's hard to take defensive effort and ability out of the. You can't really look at it on an individual basis except in things like steel percentage, which we've got a couple of players in this transfer portal class that clearly can pressure the ball. But how does that work in terms
of a holistic system? The other issue, and and this is one that I keep seeing brought up and I don't think it's an unreasonable question, is you've got a ton of players that are from the lower levels of college basketball. How well do their games translate to the Big 10 and to
the power conference level? You know, and if you look at there, there are there have been isolated but consistent cases with a lot of teams where you've been able to take players from the mid major level or below, plug them into the next level and they've worked. But that's generally been getting plugged into a roster of athletes that were recruited to the power conference level. And so there's less leaning on them. How does that work when they're
all from that level? And, and this is where it's like they might all be D1 high power conference caliber players that either got under recruited or developed quite a bit in their first couple of years. But you are leaning quite a bit on the idea that those players have the ability within them to play at this level. Those are the two things I'd be the most concerned about. I I trust Darren Devries, I don't think he's going out and getting players that can't
translate. And this is where he and his assistants, this is where they make their money that, you know, the talent evaluation and like that guy will work at this level and this is how we're going to make it happen. That's honestly where I think we're the the rubber's going to hit the road or not when it comes to this roster. Tony, what are your thoughts on this? Defense would would be my first thought just because some of these guys have some lower defensive box plus minus yeah.
And then what what coach Tansone just put there is everybody's going to have to buy into a new role maybe minus Wilkerson and Devries, you know those those two are still going to be high usage guys that the offense is going to run through more than likely. But pretty much everybody else on this roster was their team's best player last season. And trying to get those guys together, buy into their role and then just understand each others games.
Like there's a reason continuity is a real metric you look at in terms of building a team and how far they can go. Because you just have to understand how each other play and where you like the ball and all that good stuff.
Now what gives me some excitement or kind of like what helps me rest easy at night with that is that this is not new to Darren Devries. He did it completely new roster at West Virginia last season, completely new roster minus his son at Drake the year prior and both he should have made the tournament at West Virginia and made the tournament at Drake. I looked last year, I think there were ten teams that had a
complete rebuild. Kentucky and Louisville were the only two that made the tournament, which to me that's the level that Indiana's on in terms of resources where you have. And what I mean by that is you have the resources to go out and build a new team that actually can be high caliber. And then the next best rated team was West Virginia, which again thought that they should have made the tournament, but their resources were at a lower level than Indiana. And that's why Darren Devries is
here now, right? So to me, those are kind of the two things that give me a little bit of heartburn. But I also like win with Scott where you know, there we won't know till we know. But I feel good about it in terms of of how they're building this roster. And the main reason I feel good about it is while basketball is a different sport than football, we just saw it done with Coach Signetti at the football realm bringing some some lower tier guys, but have a chip on their shoulder.
Maybe feel that they were overlooked and then was able to put them in into a cohesive unit and then go out there and, and dominate, you know, college football. So that also helps me feel good. Like I just saw it done in a much more difficult situation in terms of Indiana football. And so the while I, you know, I don't think Indiana's a final 4 caliber roster, I do feel good about what they've built thus far and that they'll be able to compete night in night out.
I'm going to do Colin. Coward and answer my own question. Just do a little solo radio here for a second. I I my other this is a thing that I like, but also a concern. You know, as I look at this team to something Galen, you mentioned in the pod a couple weeks ago, just how how the SCC really transformed how they were recruiting and building basketball teams in the Big 10 is still kind of led by Michigan State and Purdue building teams
a different way. I like that it looks like we're building a little more SEC style team with with the kind of players that we're getting, the schools are coming from the size and all of that, but we're still playing in the Big 10 next season. And so the idea of we're just going to, you know, we're still going to be competing against Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue teams that have big players.
I'm not saying we can't compete with it, but the idea that we are going to be able to radically do all of this change in one year and, and change the paradigm within the conference. I, I think we're on the right track. I think that it, from what I'm seeing, we're going about this the right way. But I do think it, you know, we still play in the Big 10 and it's going to be hard against some of those teams and just the way the Big 10 is.
And so if we're helping to move that forward, it may be. Be a 234 year process. Well, yeah, I agree. Although here's what I would look at it as the the reality is Indiana has to build itself back up to a national level of
relevance among recruits. This has to become a destination once again, not just for top rated recruits that are looking for a home and a quick payday, but guys who are buying into a particular system, especially to talk about what Mike Weemuth talks about regularly on X's and Joe's being able to grab those guys in the sweet spot. Those those, you know, 30 to 80 ranked players who can stick around for multiple years build
into a system. Indiana's essentially got to demonstrate what that system looks like. Are you going to go out and be able to get high major players as transfers to fill those roles effectively? No. Like what? Why would those players leave their current situations, the ones that would probably you don't want and the ones that you want you probably aren't going to be able to get?
Because why would they leave their current situation to go out and get a bunch of guys who are in the next tier who clearly, as coach Tom Sony mentioned in the comments, are high usage guys. They're high output guys, I guess for lack of a better term. The all of it adds up to me to a team that's got a ceiling. As Tony pointed out, it's got a
significantly higher floor. And to Scott's point about you got to play in the Big 10. I I think you can catch lightning in a bottle in a given year in the Big 10 if you are throwing a system out there that other teams are not equipped to defend effectively. Because if you look at what's happened in the Big 10 over the course of of the last few years, and I think Illinois has been a great example of a, a program
that's done this. You know, I think that you've got a couple of other examples of of this, but if you look at who has been the most effective in the Big 10 over the course of the last several years, Wisconsin did it this year as well. Teams that focus on shooting, teams that focus on ball movement, teams that focus on exchange of players and being able to not lose a whole lot. They are able to win more games than they lose in this
conference. I think USC actually kind of did it a little bit this year at a lower level. Indiana is going to throw something out there that almost reminds me of, I mean, this is a weird ass comp. I acknowledge it. It reminds me of what Joe Tiller did in his first year as a Purdue football coach. Like he was like, we're never going to be able to compete with the way our current structure is against the Michigan's and the Ohio states. So let's do a completely
different thing out there. And yeah, are we going to win a national title or win go to the Rose? We'll probably not. But can we get to a bowl? Can we? Can we win our rivalry games? And that's what happened. And it's set up this 5 or 6 year string where they actually built to the level they were, where they were a national contender. Indiana, I think can do that in basketball on a shorter time scale.
Maybe it doesn't take the four years you're talking about, but Indiana's got to be viewed as a serious contender. And right now they're not viewed as a serious contender I think by a lot of players out there. You know, it's a landing spot, it's not a destination. And you know, as Coach Tonsone points out, we had transfers from Stanford, Washington State, Arizona and Illinois and did not make the tournament last year.
Well, that's what I like about this team is it's a lot of guys who seem to have a chip on their shoulder. Not saying other guys didn't, but you know, a lot of a lot of players in this team played at a lower level. They were under recruited. They, they probably feel like they're all, you know, Tom Brady, so to speak, like to the NFL drafts going on, like they all feel like they're getting jobbed and they're ready to show and prove something.
I, I like, I think, I do think if nothing else, this team is going to be one that people can rally behind 'cause that's something. The last couple years there's just been a disconnected feat. You know, that there hasn't been the same connection with the fans and the teams. It does feel like a bunch of guys who have a chip on their shoulder who want to show that's that's a real fun team to watch.
Yeah. I think it's funny too that there's there's been, you know, a lot of our shows just national folks talking about like Tucker Devries is completely overlooked on this roster. And he's a really. Really not on the team. It's wild, you know? Well, and the fact that you got regret, you're almost like, well, that doesn't count. It's like, but it does like he is going to play like he does count as a transfer and a
recruit, yes. And I mean like potential all American level player, like very, very, very good player. And like, because he's the coach's son, it's just like, completely. Overlooked. Yeah. As if it in the game, the refs were like, those points don't count. Like every coach's son points only count, you know, half a percent or something. Yeah.
Look, this is I'm I'm excited. I'm not promising anything and nobody should, but I think that as I said in one of the emergency podcasts, we did enjoy the building it everything is possible right now. You know, I was looking at the Torvic page for next year. You know where he'll he'll take the the different projections into account and try to throw up what statistically it looks like things are going to be.
And right now he's got IU projected at 31st in the country with the 23rd ranked offensive efficiency and the 42nd ranked defensive efficiency. And that's what just. Yeah, I mean, so, you know, you're in the same realm as, you know, several teams that you would consider contenders. Indiana right now with the roster they've got is projected higher than Arizona, higher than Alabama, higher than, you know, several team, Clemson, who, you know, obviously had a great year
last year. Now, does that mean that's going to happen? No. But the pieces statistically look good. So enjoy that. Just just buy into that for now. And look, I think again, you have to almost dispense of whatever you thought the roster should look like or what we've gotten conditioned to it looking like. This is going to be a new system. And look, I'll tell everybody this right now on May or on April 25th, there's going to be growing pains.
There's going to be a couple of games probably early on where like the team looks like they don't know them each other and don't know what they're supposed to be doing. And then there'll be games where they will blow somebody out. This happened to Kentucky this year with a couple of games early on where they went from, OK, this is a real bad idea to wow, that team just did that. You know, I think this will be a
building process. Someone mentioned the idea of a summer tour that would help this team coalesce. I think that that's going to be a big part of it. They're not going to have a long on ramp because they've got some big games early on. The Marquette game is real early in the season. But to some degree, if they can figure out how to click offensively and start to coalesce defensively, this team looks like a grower to me.
One that is guys get more comfortable both with each other and the roles that they're playing. They're going to be all right and maybe even a lot better than all right. And in a Big 10, that's all over the place right now in terms of styles of play. I don't think it's a necessity that you have the big seven footer or that you have a line up.
If you know, this gives Indiana for the first time the chance to shoot over a line up, that's just like we're not letting you shoot anything from 18 feet in. Now Indiana is no longer handcuffed to that. And as Tony Stuckey pointed out in the chat, you know, you may not see A1 through 5 traditional lineup. You're almost certainly not going to. This isn't a lineup that's going to be about can you ride the hot hand? Can you get the right players on the floor on the right nights in
the right matchups? It's a lot more complex than just, you know, my team is on the floor and that's that. That's going to be an interesting thing to watch with this team. I hear all that and if anyone you know was listening from the Devries coaching staff, I understand about the growing pains. Let's just not make it the first game 20 point loss to Indiana State at home. Like let's just make the growing pains something a little bit different.
Not I hear, I hear you. Just let's not, let's not have that again. Yeah, that was that was the beginning of the end. And and here we are eight years later, it's still yeah. But yeah, it's it's it's an exciting roster build, as Galen noted to it's, it's something to look forward to the the European Tour, if that's going to happen, will be great for this team, not only from a basketball standpoint, but from just like a team bonding and building standpoint. Like that stuff matters.
That's where you build your culture. And like, I know that's a buzzword that's probably overused, but like, culture is something that's important. And if your locker room's in a good spot, guys play for each other, that that just changes the dynamic of the team. And, and you can see it as a fan too on the floor. Teams that gel together and teams that don't really look like they they care about one another. It's it's not typically too hard to to kind of figure out.
But but yeah, I'm I'm excited for what this roster is turning into. And there's still a couple pieces to go. And that's kind of the interesting part now. But also it gives his staff a little bit of time to breathe. I think start figuring out the high school recruiting landscape. You know, this season's going to be very important for how they're going to be able to recruit moving forward.
You know, that way they can say, hey, we bought this guy in and and we put him in these positions and and you know, that's why Indiana couldn't land a guy like Berlin Mullins. They had no way to showcase how they could use a player of his caliber. Well, now they're going to have those opportunities to have guys like Wilkerson and De Vries where you can showcase high level talents, how they can be used, run off screens, things like that.
And then you can land them and you've got a good INIL to to sweeten the pot a bit as well. Indiana not done yet. They'll be probably at least a couple more additions to the roster. I will say there was a little discussion about what the roster limit is. It's a little bit dependent on what happens with the house settlement. But also keep in mind I I'd be surprised if they carried more than 12 full time players because at this point, what's the purpose?
Like, you know, the anybody who's willing to sit on the bench, maybe not either not good enough to play or might leave after one year. And you really aren't playing more 9 or 10 guys generally anyway. And unless you got major injury issues. And Indiana's got some flexibility with this roster already that they haven't had in previous year.
So we'll see. But I expect at least at least one, maybe two more additions depending on what happens with Goody. And it's going to be fascinating to see what direction they go with this as it's clear the one piece that they still would like to get. And I've heard several names even the Tony didn't mention here publicly that are possibilities as well. So I think we'll see something on that soon.
Yeah. The thing about the the scholarship limit too is I know they they're increasing that to 15. But once you go over 13, that cuts into your Rev share. I can't imagine Indiana's going to put two guys in the end of their bench to cut into revenue, revenue sharing for the other 12 or 13. So I'd be shocked if they ever went over 13 because then it starts cutting into revenue sharing for for your top contributors. Yeah, anyway, I think we'll go ahead and wrap up. Go ahead and separate.
Let's take the weekend, enjoy Little 5 and hopefully we'll come back with more to talk about. Go Pacers. Yeah 3 great first two games for the Pacers. You got to finish the finish things off, but thanks to all of you who tuned in live to listen to us here on Friday, April 25th as Indiana continues to add to their roster for the 2526 season. Thank you to Tony Adronia and to Scott Caulfield, you guys answering the bell really filled my heart today.
Thank you so much and we will look forward to chatting with you all again soon. Be sure to tune into the back Home network as we continue to cover IU football, IU basketball and other things related to Indiana University. We'll catch you folks. On the flip side, stay never daunted. Bring back the Bison. So long, everybody.