You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. You're hopeful joining you here on the show. It is Monday, March 3rd back. More IU coaching candidate talk as it were, and Scott also looking forward to a big week for IU men's basketball as they have two really critical games coming up later on this week. They play Oregon Tuesday night and then back in the hole for Senior Day on this upcoming Saturday. It is March. It's tournament time.
A lot of great games over the weekend. Not just the game that IU was in, but a ton of really fascinating games across the country. Are you feeling the the madness, Scott? Are you feeling the fever? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, it's definitely it's definitely March. You feel it coming on. We my my son had a soccer youngest son of the soccer game. We stopped for burgers and there's like the Tennessee Alabama game on and we're just watching the end of that and
it's great. It was like, hold on, grace, like hold on, man. We're just watching the NMA wife and I were both like, I want to see this game. It's like it's starting to yeah, we're starting to get there. And it's fun that for as disappointing at times as this season has been, I'm starting to kind of dust off the hey, we're going to be. We have a real shot at being on the bubble or being in the tournament and in the tournament, you know, it's it's I'm having to get my excitement
level back. Just being totally honest, like I kind of lost it. It's kind of checked out. It's like, all right, like I need, I'm checking back in and I'm getting excited because the tournament is to me, the one of the best sporting events and it's the entire lead up. It starts from now because you start, you know, getting the seating for the conference tournaments. You start sprinkling in slower level conference tournaments over the next couple days like, oh, I know the MIAC was playing
this week. Like that's fun. And then it leads in the conference tournament. It leads into that first weekend. It is just from here till like March 24th is just it's awesome. It is and you know, it's funny because I think a lot of IU fans, but OK, let me back up a second. I, you know, me, I, I do bracketology and I really dive into the tournament and over the last 20 years, that's really when I've been doing that the most, really the last 25.
And then of course that is coincided with IU missing a lot of tournaments during that same time period. So I've I've learned over time to get excited about the tournament, even if it's not. Involving Indiana, When you do like a control F and you type Indiana, your computer's like what? Like what? We don't search that. I'm sorry, what?
Yeah, but but the flip side of it is there's a lot of IU fans who don't feel that way, who are only excited about the tournament when IU is in it. And I understand that. And this has been a really weird year in as much As for the longest time, you just took for granted the idea that Indiana wasn't going to be in the NCAA tournament.
And yet if you listened to or watched the Bracketology special that I did yesterday and posted to the YouTube channel, Indiana's not only like on the bubble, like they're, they're inside. Like I had them as my 15 fifth to last team in, which is great because you've got like a a lot
of cushion there. And yeah, Indiana still got a little bit of work to do. But even in relation to the other teams that are on the bubble, they're in much better shape and have much better chances at bettering their situation. So I get it for IU fans, if you're not totally jacked up about the tournament right now because it didn't look like IU was going to be in it, but I think you got to get used to the idea that they will be.
It's just such a strange circumstance, Scott, with everything else that's going on around the program with Woodson. There's some stuff I want to talk about with Woodson in a in a minute, but it's just, it's just been a weird vibe. And I think it's going to continue to be that way throughout the whole month of March.
And it's, you know, it's possible that by the end of the month we'll have both been to the tournament and gotten the new coach in the same time period, which is a weird set of circumstances. It is. I mean, April 2nd is the date it's going to happen. We all know that. That's what I told. No, no, I, I, I'm, I'm living the weirdness because I, I did. I mean, I, I still watch the games. I still keep up with that. I just, I kind of checked out of
being as into it as I had been. But yeah, I mean, it's like if you're in the tournament, that's awesome. And then once you're there, like that is going, anything can happen. And it'd be really cool to not be in the 1st 4. You know what, we will have time to do the Woodson kind of post mortem later. But I was thinking about it, it would be just a, a weird four years if Woodson didn't make the tournament and then two years made the first four and then also one year was a protected
seed. That's just, that's a. That's an odd mix of of results. And we'll come back to that in a second. But first, just a quick reminder folks, we are on Sub Stack, which of course is the place that you can go to get all the emails with the podcast delivered right to your inbox. We are at almost 1200 free subscribers to The Substance. Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to put your emails in, who are getting the free updates and we also appreciate the the paid
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You can watch the podcast. You can join in in the comments sections. You know, we're we're starting to really grow that audience and that's exciting to see. And all of that brought to you by Home Field Apparel. Your place to go for the finest in college fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest designs. And you know, it's this is the tournament. This is the time of year when Home field shines. They were dropping a bunch of basketball related stuff over the last couple of weeks.
I'm sure they'll have more coming up soon. Use the code home 23. Get 15% off your first order again, home 23. Go to homefieldapparel.com and let them know we sent you. I'm sure they'd be happy to hear that. Scott, let's talk a little bit about the weekend. We're not going to talk too much about the Washington game. I covered that in the last podcast. You didn't want to mention the uniforms a little bit. Let's start with that.
I mean, what were your opinions of of the sartorial choice of IU for that Washington game? I, I love it. I'm going to echo a lot of the same things you said. You know, I'm, I'm a fan of trying all kinds of new things. It it's frustrating when you see other teams kind of play around with their uniforms and Michigan State has been probably the
leader. Oregon's obviously in a different, I forgot they're in the Big 10, but Michigan State has been the leader of the classic Big 10, we'll call it kind of playing around with their uniforms, some with better results than others. But I, I like that, you know, I, I love when Illinois goes to the throwback like with a fighting a lion top and bottom. Same with the Ohio State, like the, the Gray with the Ohio and the state below it.
And, you know, it's Indiana's just been classic the entire time that there have been changes. You know, the, the Trident has changed over time and kind of the way the in the jerseys constructed, you know, in the Davis area, they have a little IU logo on the, on the, the neck. But I, I think us having a couple more options is good. I really like the black jerseys with the script and the red piping.
Thought it looked pretty good. I think you play around with that and there's a world where, you know, let's again, this is kind of also what I feel with our podcast doing. Let's have some fun with this. Like, let's, this is not, this is basketball in the end. Like let's grab the Oval from football and throw it on the black logos, see what it looks like on the on the shorts or something like let's let's mix and match a little bit. We'll try some stuff, some
works, some doesn't. But no, for me, I was like, that's a cool look. I would like them to dust that off and maybe play with it a little bit and and make that something that's in the rotation, you know, at times, a couple times every season, yeah. I I agree, I don't have a whole lot more to say beyond that, but I think you you summarized a bunch of things very effectively there. But you can even. I mean this this is, you know, maybe third rail, but like even play around with the like maybe
black and red candy stripes. Like what? What like let's try it. Like let's have some fun. I'm, I'm all about that. I mean, let's like again, I think, and it's funny because I was watching some old YouTube videos this weekend of IU and you know, going back to like the 60s and early 70s, something I found that was supposed to. Be pulled by Peacock next or you just like seeing which ones are
going to be ripped off just. Trying to anticipate which ones Peacock's going to steal and not credit me on. It's it's a great game that they have going with me now, but no, I it's funny because I was talking with IU Artifacts, our friend Chris about this. I was watching one of the oldest videos that I've uploaded to the YouTube channel, which is IU Illinois from 1975 in Assembly Hall. And IU did not have the state outline at center court for
Assembly Hall at that point. They had essentially a very small circle, white circle with a red eye in it. And that was also the design that was at the new field house. And so, and then of course, I think it was Chris told me after the 70s, after the 7576 season, they changed and they put the state logo on the floor. But I'd love a throwback season where we bring that back because that's a classic design.
But it brought up the thing about the uniforms, which is if you look at the uniforms at that stage, they do look different, you know, different, different Trident, different, you know, different look overall, the, the, the uniforms are kind of sacrosanct for reasons of, well, hey, we won three national titles and that was Bob Knight's program. But a that was 25 years ago, and there's been very little success
since then. And that period when Bob Knight was successful was only about 25 years itself. You know, it was, it was, it was not like the entire history of IU basketball. That was also a period when nobody had all, like all teams had the same jersey just for 20 years straight. Right. So I just think to some degree people get dug in on things that you don't need to be dug in on. Is it that big of a deal? No. But then I would argue it's not
that big of a deal both ways. You know it's it's not. I would say it's a little bit of a deal. Again, you and I both play the college, College football is different than basketball, I'm aware. But the college football game, you know, I, I just started a dynasty with my brother-in-law and a couple of other friends. And part of me picking my team, which I'll get to in a second, was which teams had the most alternative uniforms. I mean, I play with Indiana. You get one like 2 helmet
choices. It's like not a lot of fun. There's teams like Texas where it's like, hey, do you want orange or white? And those are your options. I picked Tulane 'cause they have like 75 different uniform choices. It's fun organs. They're like having kind of a fun playing team on video games does kind of help. It just gives your, your school a little bit of cachet. My, my brother-in-law picked Minnesota. They have a ton of uniform choices in in the college football game.
So I think having a couple of options, it's fun having a Minnesota Tulane national championship, which I played yesterday. I would say the argument there is, well, it's great, but then like you can have all those uniform choices, but then you're Minnesota. Yeah. Anyway, a couple of other things from the weekend. It it, I think, you know, the we talked about the Washington game or I talked about the Washington game on the previous show. It really helped IU in terms of
positioning. Overall, I did think it was really fascinating listening to the broadcasters on that game. And I and I know like, I, I think you were watching it without the sound on for a whole period of time there. But you can always tell when the announcers have like sat down with the head coach, they have zero idea about what's going on with the rest of the program and they just listen to the coach.
And in this case, Woodson, like clearly complaining about, you know, not being that, you know, still not being the coach moving forward. And, you know, they were kind of overly sympathetic, although it was funny because whoever the the analyst was on the game and clearly never watched Indiana play the entire season because he was he just kept talking about, well, you know, I'm I'm really impressed with Indiana da da da da, but with no context beyond that.
It was like he was opening a Christmas present for the first time. But I'm always interested with these things. When you go talk to the head coach, the coach is going to talk about whatever they're
talking about. But it's clear, like, I'm so confused because the way that the broadcasters were talking about their conversation with Woodson, it's hard to reconcile with the idea that has been put forward by IU Athletics, that it was Woodson's idea that he should no longer be the head coach because, you know, the whole thing has been presented by the athletic department as well. Woodson approached us and said he didn't want to be a distraction, so he wanted to step down.
Yet in almost every public appearance, Woodson has intimated that he's like leaving against his will. Or every. Appearance. Public appearance. He's not doing like all. He's not doing, you know, the radio hits. Yeah, doesn't reconcile particularly well. And I just, I was, it made me laugh on this Peacock broadcast that that kept getting brought up throughout the course of the broadcast. So I don't know, it was just a
random thing I noted. That is going to be an interesting subplot because he's he's not doing local media, but he's clearly very interested in talking to national media and and that's the subtext of it all. So it'll be a that'll be an interesting subplot if IU does get into the NCAA tournament, I think. It's, it's a great call. I, I just, I think it's interesting that, you know, IU took so long to hire one of its own and then they did and now it's not ending well.
And of all the things I would have thought, I would have thought, well, at least if it had to end, it would be, you know, both sides would come to an agreement. It's like, all right, I'm, I'm pissed, but for the better of the university, I'm going to let go. And it's not happening that way. I mean, what, what I think is interesting is, and it's probably just because of where Woodson is at his hit in, in his career. And it's pretty obvious this is probably his last.
I mean, he might get picked up by some NBA team for another spot, but like, he's not going to get another college coaching job, you know, head coaching job. How few, you know, you haven't heard a lot of courses of people talking about what you know, how bad this is or yeah, how could you do this or how you know, it's just kind of been quiet for the most part. Like I mean, Mike Will on PTIA couple times has been bitching about how like who's Indiana?
I think they are, but there hasn't been a lot of like former players coming out just been kind of quiet on both sides since it happened. I think that's interesting too. Either Woodson has tried to reach out to you, like hey, go out and talk about me. It hasn't happened or it's just people are like, hey, let's it's just everyone's not seem. It seems like everyone's kind of checked out, checked out on this just like. All right. We're done. We're ready to move on.
I've had a few people contact me and say, well, what happens if IU makes a deep run in the term? I was like, let's pump the brakes. Like getting into the tournament would still be an accomplishment. Being anything higher than like an 11 seed would be still a bit of a shock. It's possible. But you know, again, I would I, I keep referring back to what the expectations were at the start of the year.
And we were having these conversations of, well, gosh, if, if Woodson only makes a Sweet 16 with the talent on this team, was this a successful season or not? Well, that's I mean, they could still make a Sweet 16, but it would be under a completely different set of circumstances.
I don't think it materially changes anything, but it's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out and whether or not the the national or even the local tenor of the debate changes at all based upon what occurs. I again, I think I mentioned this in the podcast on Sunday, we've seen Indiana perform really well against the two worst teams in the conference over the course of the last week. Let's see what they do as they take a step up. I mean, Oregon is a is a
surprisingly good team. Like they are better team than I thought they were once I started diving into tournament resumes. And Ohio State is not that good but has shown the ability to do things like win at Purdue, you know, So I do think that, you know, if Indiana sweeps this week. It doesn't change anything about the final decision, especially since it was theoretically Woodson's decision in the 1st place. But you know, that's the other
thing. It's like, well, you guys still going to fire Woodson if he makes a term. It's like, well, we've been told he stepped down on his own accord. So I just, I'm not sure what we're supposed to be talking about at this point.
Great point. I, I think the Sweet 16 would be an interesting discussion if only you have the break where people can talk about it. Also, you know, a lot of this will depend and let's move on. A lot of it will depend on how Indiana gets there because they're an 11 seed. You know, beating a six is a is an upset, but it's not like monumental. If they then beat the 12, it's like OK, if they beat a three seed, it's like, OK, they're
beating A-Team. Like, you know, Iowa State or Michigan State. I wouldn't be Michigan State
based on bracketing rules. But a team in that elk, you know, if they make it to the Final Four, that would be a different scenario because you have a whole other, you know, you'd have to win some real magnitude games over the weekend to talk about it. But I I like your thought of it just kind of becomes a, you know, who broke up with who conversations like he stepped down, like we're not firing him
like his his job. Now it's unfortunately too late, like because he decided to step down, it's too late. But it would it would be interesting if they made the final four how it would be. But it it feels like I I think that the decision has been made and I think even if they make that run, it would be awesome. It's like, that's a This is a great way to end the Mike Woodson era isn't a final.
Four, I'm with you 100%. He's already brought, you know, black uniforms to to IU, like bringing bringing IU back to the final four would be a great way to. Start with that. Let's talk about new coaches. Yeah, yeah. So. Let's theoretical run to the Final Fours. Let's pivot and I I will. I would like to say a couple of quick updates in terms of standings for those of you who are following along in relation to the Big 10 Tournament and where Indiana might land with that.
Results yesterday solidified some things. Illinois has now essentially clinched in every scenario against Indiana. So the highest Indiana can get from a seating perspective is now eighth because even if Illinois loses their one remaining conference game, which is this upcoming Friday against Purdue, Illinois would be 11 and 9. Indiana can't get any better than 11 and 9, and Illinois holds the tiebreaker for having beaten Indiana head to Indiana can still catch Oregon, but
that's kind of not important in as much as if they are in the 8-9 game. It's just a matter of whether they're wearing Rd. uniforms or home uniforms because Oregon is is maybe black. Yes. Now Oregon could still pass Illinois if they beat Indiana and Washington. That would drop Illinois into the 8-9 game. Indiana's also very much still a possibility to drop down into the Wednesday games if they lose the basically, they'd have to lose both.
Excuse me, they they could, they could win one and lose 1. If they beat Oregon and they're 10 and 9 lose to Ohio State and Ohio State beats Nebraska and Ohio State's 10 and 10, there's a possibility there that Indiana might lose that tiebreaker, but it would require some other things happening one way or the other. So Indiana's either at this point most likely to be playing on Thursday in the 8-9 game against most likely Oregon, but possibly Illinois or they could
end up in the 10 seed. There's a really wild scenario where Indiana loses both of their remaining games and you've got both Ohio State and then that whole gaggle of teams that are at 7:00 and 11:00 that could sneak in and that would create a big multi part tiebreaker confusion. Indiana might be good in those in that scenario because they've beaten Rutgers, they've beaten Minnesota, but they've also lost to Nebraska and lost to Northwestern. So I can't calculate all of that at this point.
Would have lost to Ohio State in that theoretical. Yeah. But you would have, you would have a one-on-one record against Ohio State because they beat them already. So it's like there's all kinds of wild things that could happen. But anyway, I still think Indiana's in good shape tournament wise. But as far as the Big 10 tournaments concerned, it is going to be interesting. Now you know, we did see a couple of interesting things
happen over the weekend. You know, you've at this stage it looks like it's going to be Michigan State is the one seed. Michigan surprisingly got blown out at home by Illinois, who left up out of their coffin and and suddenly looks like a contender again. So this is going to be a lot of really fascinating moves happening down the stretch here.
One thing that's really interesting about Michigan and what we're actually going to talk about their coach here a little bit later, but I would like to note to people something actually you know what I'll call time out on that. Let's just actually let's just talk about Dusty May. It's a nice segue. So we we've got 4IN memoriam for him. We said he was gone, but we'll we'll bring him back. You're the by the way, Scott playing that video actually triggered a copyright issue.
McLaughlin doesn't play yeah. You need to just use generic sad music, not not adoptable cats sad music I think in the future. But let's talk about Dusty May. We have a group of four coaches that we're going to be talking about today as we've been doing now Dusty may did just sign an extension with Michigan. It's very unlikely he would be the head coach, but not entirely impossible because the buyout terms aren't that aren't that critical and until. We have time.
We have time and until the next season starts and Dusty May is not the head coach, I think you still have to entertain the idea that, well, maybe let's let's talk through it. So Dusty May, of course, the head coach at Michigan this year and prior to that was the head coach at Florida Atlantic.
And of course, prior to that had a winding path through college basketball that started as a manager here at Indiana University. Dusty May, a native of Greene County, grew up in a rural part of that county, was kind of, you know, brought into the IU sphere as at a very young age and lived that life for a while, ended up following Mike Davis, was an assistant under him, was an assistant elsewhere.
You know, Dusty May kind of leaped to everybody's attention in 2023 when he took Florida Atlantic, a historically horrific team, and got them all the way to the Final Four where they barely lost to San Diego State in the in the championship game. There were 35 and four that year followed up last or that following year, which was last year with a 25 and 9 overall record in the eighth seed. And then they barely lose in that first round game.
Takes the job at Michigan and has taken a Michigan team that had really devolved under Juwan Howard. Like Juwan Howard went from making an Elite Eight in 2021 and going 22 and 5 or 23 and five and 14 and three to last year Juwan Howard was 8 and 24 and they were 3 and 17. I mean, it's fascinating how far down the list Juwan Howard fell in a very short period of time. That was a a Michigan program that was really in a lot of trouble.
Dusty May comes in and in one year has gone from 8 and 24 to 22 and seven. I have seen some people like looking at what's going on at Michigan right now and saying we'll see. You know, Michigan's a paper tiger. Dusty isn't that good of a coach. I just want to note like they've already done a 14 game swing from last year. They're in they're they're still technically in contention for a
Big 10 title. This is a coach that's clearly got some really fascinating and and good things going and is still very young at, which is why I think he's drawn so much attention from so many people in terms of his potential as being the head IU basketball coach, especially when you factor in the ties from him being here previously. Yes, So I mean, I, I guess no, I had had we had he not signed that extension and we were doing this, my ending number would
have been in like the mid 80s. I, I think he'd be a really good coaching option. I mean, the only thing you can knock him for is it took him, you know, the first four years of Florida Atlantic are just kind of nothing special. But as you said, it's a really bad program. It took him some time. It's hard to say. Why did it take you so long to turn around Florida Atlantic? Like he turned it around and then he had some very high level
success. And yeah, he's thus far he's look like he's been able to do it at Michigan. You know, I'm trying to think of like another comparison, you know, like this is not not the perfect comp. Like Andy Enfeld went from Florida Gulf Coast, had some high level success at Florida Gulf Coast only two years, had some, you know, by year three and four had some good success at USC and then it kind of flamed out.
That would be the concern or the other concern is it seems to be with Michigan, guys can come in like Jawan Howard have really early success and then it's hard to keep it going in Michigan. Maybe that is more Michigan than the coach, but you know, it's I I would take a step back and just say this. We don't know Dusty May at all, but everything lines up.
If you're Dusty May and you're from Greenfield and you were a manager at IU. If you wanted this job and this was the job you wanted, you know, you can probably read the tea leaves and realize like Woodson's in some hot last year. You could have been like Woodson's in some hot water, you know, maybe I if, if this is the only job you really want, maybe you don't go to the Big 10. Maybe you stay at Florida Atlantic one more year and see see what's available.
Maybe you, you have a feeling Woodson might be able to go if you wanted the IU job this year. You just don't sign the extension. You just it's an uncomfortable couple of weeks and you take it. Now I, I have no idea if Indiana's offered it to him, but I just, I do wonder in the little rumors I've heard as as the may thing was going on was that it's possible he didn't want to deal with being in the Indiana, you know, being that close to family.
Maybe that is a case. But from a basketball point of view, it looks like a really good fit. I mean, the numbers are good and he's showing he can turn things around quickly at a Big 10 school. Yeah, no, I mean, you look at the numbers, we've got them up on the screen here for those of you watching along. I mean, Dusty May checks a ton of boxes in terms of being a coach that embraces and and clearly understands kind of the modern game. Offensively speaking.
His teams have always played kind of at the very least a medium tempo. This year they're playing very fast that he's he's done a great job of of forging a defensive identity on this team the same way he forged one on the Florida Atlantic team that went to the final. 4 field goal and they're they're shooting better and better as he as he goes along with his coaching. Yeah, that that's that, that's been the big thing that's carried over. And you know, he had some advantages.
He brought Vlad Golden with him from Florida Atlantic, didn't bring Janelle Davis because of course Michigan has the worst transfer policies for athletes in the country. But there's a lot to like, especially offensively. And yet also if you look at defensively what he's been able to do, it's almost more impressive at Michigan.
Like you go, if you look Emma, change the view here if you go to the Michigan historical page, like if you look at what fell off that that 2021 team that Juwan Howard had that was a one seed and made it to the elite 8. Like that was an elite team on both sides of the ball. Top it was they were ninth in the country and offensive efficiency. They were fourth in defensive efficiency. They fell off pretty quickly after that. And then last year they just stopped playing defense.
And the fact that Dusty May was able to take a combination of those players, new players, and forge them into a group that was able to play at the level they've played so far this season is really impressive. And yes, they have fallen off, but I think people they don't realize how bad that team was last year and how how bad the culture had gotten under Juwan Howard And also what a resurrection job this has been.
Yes, you know, Michigan has been winning a lot of games by the skin of their teeth, but they've been winning them. They've made good plays in the final minutes. They've eked out some games. This is not going to be looked at, I think, historically as a as one of the strongest teams that Michigan ever had. It's a really great coaching job. You know, the, the thing with May and you know, you, you never know with people like how they fit in personality wise to places.
Is it a situation where Dusty May was waiting for the IU job and then the moment passed because IU didn't move on from Woodson last year and and now he's found a home at Michigan. That's possible. I mean, this happens all the time and, and there's a variety of reasons for it.
And, and I think it's important to keep in mind like the the draw of the alma mater is sometimes very strong, but sometimes it's just like, I want to get to a program like that and make it my own without the baggage of coaching the team that I grew up rooting for and work for and have been most closely aligned with in terms of my professional career. Bob Knight is a great example of that where, you know, it's like that guy was from Ohio, he went to Ohio State.
And when, you know, I mean, when Fred Taylor retired or when I think it was Eldon Miller perhaps in the 80s, left the, the question for a long time was, will Bob Knight leave Indiana and go back to Ohio State? And he never did, in part because it's like, well, why do I need to go to Ohio State when I can do everything that I want to do at the place that I'm at? Is that Dusty Maystock or, or does Dusty may really want the IU job? And the timing just hasn't worked out.
And, and it's for those of you in the audience who have grown to appreciate this at the sliding doors moment for both parties. Hard to say. I'm sure there are people that know we haven't heard Dusty May go on the record other than to say he really likes being at Michigan, which is fair. So there will always be, I think kind of a question mark in the back of people's heads about whether or not this would have been a marriage that would have
worked. And I think that that's a really good, you know, thing to keep in mind because ultimately you can win a national title at Michigan. You can be successful there. And if if that's where Dusty May is AT and they are a consistently very good team for a long period of time, it puts that much more pressure on whoever the the new coach is for IU as well as the athletic
department. Because it's like if you could have figured out a way to get that guy there, what a dynamite hire if he can do it in Michigan because it's essentially the same kind of set up with the same kind of revenue structure and arguably a better recruiting pathway with IU. And yet he's there at Michigan. So it'll be an interesting thing to watch moving forward, and I'm not.
Still not written. I'm not I'm not here to knock on Dusty May. But you look at again, Juwan Howard had a came out the gate quick and then had a hard time keeping up. You look at another, you know, like Chris Holtman, you know, went to a football school in Ohio State, had a couple of you know, went to round two. Round two had a one seed. I think one, one or two seed didn't make it, but had a, you know, not great tournament success. He's now at DePaul with A2 and
16 conference record. Well, I you're right, although I'll note that Juwan Howard took over a team that had been in the previous four years had been at a 23 wins first round, 26 wins, Sweet 1633 wins, national runner up and then thirty wins, Sweet 16. And you know, Howard in his first year would have made the tournament. They were 19 and 12 that year, but that was the COVID year and then elite 8 and then Sweet 16 and then no tournament and then no tournament and a losing record.
So it's you're right in that Howard came out of the gate quickly, but had a lot more solid base to go off of. Then what May did is, is I think what's made him stick out to me the most is how effective he's proven in such a short period of time. Is it sustainable? It's hard to say. But all the returns are there.
And for a guy who's not even going to be 50 years old at the start of this upcoming season, Michigan may have found their coach for the next 15 years, which is depressing when it's a guy from the IU circle. But it's also possible that Dusty May didn't want to come back to IU. We don't know there. It'll be interesting to see how all this plays out moving forward. Yeah, agree. So anyway, let's move on to our next. So, so where, where, Where are you? Where are you?
I can't feel like we. I almost feel like we can't make a number here. If, if honestly, if Dusty was hired, he would be right up. Yeah, at at almost basically the exact same level, maybe slightly higher because of the local ties and the fact we know he understands IU basketball. I would have him ranked higher than either TJ Otzelberger or Scott Drew simply because of that. Because I think this is where like the trade off of potential
versus realized success. Yeah. You know, I mean, the fact that they're all relatively similar ages, but Dusty May is one of ours. I think that there would have been more excitement there. It would have been probably a 90, you know, because there is, as you said, there's a, it's not 100% slam dunk that it absolutely would have worked, but gosh, it looked like it would have worked. I would be even higher now because you're really sticking it to Michigan now after all
this. Like they signed the extension. They're probably thinking they're all good. Michigan fans are like you fans What? And then it's like boom, and we got them. But I I don't think it's going to happen. So it's going to be an incomplete. I'd be like if they got them. This also is like 94 because it's like you can just shove it to Michigan. Yeah, that would have been nice, but it doesn't look like it's
going to happen. So anyway, we'll we'll keep an eye on it. But yeah, that way I would have been very excited if they had hired Dusty May. Yeah, it's just, it's I, I will always wonder. I mean, it depends how Dusty, you know, Dusty may doesn't do well. It's like I don't care less. But if he becomes, he has a John Beeline type run, I'll be annoyed and depressed. I will always wonder, you know, was it just ships passing in the night or was it a situation where Dusty really didn't want it?
Or is it possible Indiana just didn't want it either? Because I mean, it was pretty obvious when he made the final four run at Ford Atlantic's. All right, this this guy's going to get a job. And you know, that was the year Indiana had a four seed. So you couldn't be looking that way. But you mean you, you have a coach who's 63 at that time. You don't make the tournament.
You know, it's it if you really, if you're Indiana, you really want to get that is like 100% your candidate feels like last year could have been a year. You could have made it. Just I will always wonder who. And again, maybe it maybe it was neither side, but it did. Did one side not want the other or was it literally just ships passing in the night? Never, never. Let's move on to our next candidate that we're going to talk about today.
Let's go to Grant Mccasland. So this is a name that's that's popped up a decent amount. This is, of course, the coach at Texas Tech 49 at the start of the upcoming season and a name that's been getting more attention because of how well his Texas Tech team has been playing on the national stage. They're 7th and Ken Palm right now with a 22 and 7 record and the 9th most deficient offense in college basketball.
Mccasland, another one of those coaches, has had an interesting pathway over the course of his career. He's 295 in Division One, which is a 678 win percentage. His career was Arkansas State head coach, then North Texas head coach, and then he gets hired at Texas Tech a couple of years ago after Chris Beard. Sorry, not Chris Beard. It was Mark Adams that was there. The Mark Adams experiment kind of deteriorates in year 2. Mccaslin comes in immediately, gets the team back to the NCAA
tournament. Now they look like they're in line for a top two, maybe top three seed in the tournament. He, this is a really accomplished coach and this is a guy that as I dug into a little bit more, became more impressed than even when I first started looking at his materials. I'm going to call up his Ken Pom page here so people can see.
You know, one of the things that was really fascinating about Mccaslin is that at North Texas, he really took that North Texas program and made them something very special.
Much as with Dusty May, where it's like you have to evaluate the the the nature of his accomplishments at Florida Atlantic in the context of what had come before, prior to taking over at Florida Atlantic. You know, that program under Dusty or prior to Dusty may have had three winning seasons in its entire Division One history and he takes them all the way to a national or to a final four with North Texas.
I mean, that is that is a school that has had, I would say, uneven history of success in terms of their overall, you know, abilities. Johnny Jones got them to a couple of tournaments, but that's not a program that's normally in the upper reaches of whatever conference it's in. While Mccaslin was there, they they won 2021, 2018, 25 and 31 games. It was really, really impressive what he was able to accomplish during his time there.
And then, you know, you look at Texas Tech and he's actually gotten, I think, better at several important areas. He played very slow, very methodical at North Texas. He speed up his offense a bit. His teams have become more efficient on both sides of the ball and seems like a guy with a lot of potential as he moves forward into wherever his career takes him. So I mean, here's the thing, he fits. We've talked about like, you know, the signetti higher in the Signetti mold.
This is a guy who has not had a losing season. So you can play the Google me. I just win. He has winning seasons. You know, he's at Midland College, he wins an NJCAA Division One championship in O6O7, goes to Midwestern State, goes to two Division 2 Elite Eights, wins at Arkansas State, goes to North Texas. You said turns it around and seems to be turning around Texas Tech. The more I dug into it, the more
interested and excited I got. Looking at these stats, this looks like kind of all of the prototypes that you would want it. Someone who has head coaching experience, someone who has experience turning around program, someone who has experience winning in tournament settings, albeit not the NCAA tournament, but at other, you know, at the only level you can play. I will also note this, you go to his Wikipedia page. It's very slim, not a lot of information, but under personal
life. He's married, they have four children, and they also own 6 miniature donkeys. You want to talk about something that threw me off when I was doing my research like I that one, that one really came out of nowhere. 6 miniature donkeys I. Mean, you know, we could bring back like big heads and have like the donkeys in the crowd. It all writes itself. It's. Great, there's some land in Bloomington.
Let's go. I guess My, my, this got me thinking like I don't have AI, don't have a problem where. I mean, I guess he owns 10 acres in Lubbock and they've got their miniature donkeys there. Is there a? Dyson, would you feel better? Would you like I'm in. I was got me thinking like what? Every coach has got their quirks. That's a relatively small 1. You know, it's like if a person owned 10 golden retrievers. That's a little bit strange, but it's it's understandable.
You just really like dogs. What's the oddest animal that you could plausibly own 6 of where it wouldn't like disqualify you from a major coaching job? Like if you owned a bunch of capybaras, would that would that be a problem? That would be like, we can't hire that guy because he's got this like happy bar ownership addiction that we don't know what to do with. What would what would be your interpretation? I'm just thinking of like random.
Like if you own like 12 Stingrays, like I said, I need to have like a 20 gallon, like a 200 gallon. One of my favorite movies from the 80s is the movie 2010 the year or you're you're We made Contact, I think it's called. It's the sequel to 2001. A lot of people didn't like it because it was not Stanley Kubrick directing it.
Anyway, Heywood Floyd in that movie is played by Roy Schneider. And you know, Roy Schneider's character has like he's no longer leading the National Space Administration and he's instead like the chancellor to university. And they live in this house and they've got a, a pool in the house where they have pet dolphins that just like swim up to the, the, the, the, the dining room table and they like throw them fish and stuff like
that. I always think about that because, you know, I don't know many people that have pet dolphin tanks. I actually think that there's probably a law against that. But for whatever reason, this made me think of that. It's like this guy just randomly has has miniature donkeys on his property. To answer your question, I'd be if he had like, you know, 7 Bengal tigers because that's always what drug dealers have. Like what is this guy into? Like why does he own like?
12 Bengal tigers like that seems a little bit odd. It is. Have you ever been to the Exotic Feline rescue center out 46? I have. So if you for those who haven't been an counselor at YMCA, we did that as a as a field trip one year. We took all the kids there. It was actually a lot of fun. You know, it's great. It's a really great set up. And if if for those of you who. You live in Indiana and haven't
been out there. If you drive out 46 like before you get to Indiana, 59 like past past Bowling Green, but before you get to where you would turn if you were going to go up to like, you know, Brazil IN, there's an exotic feline rescue center. And if you haven't taken that tour, it's fascinating because you know, you'll go through and they've got all these tigers and lions and these other exotic felines and they'll talk about how they got them.
And most of the time, like you just said, it is a drug dealer like owned like 3 tigers and then they got arrested and like, well, where do you take the tigers at that point? Obviously owning miniature donkeys is not like that. But it is a fascinating thing that that this is a thing. His Wikipedia page. I just, I just think that's, that's amazing. Wow, There's nothing else there. I mean, like there's there's very little text. It's all just records and it's like, yeah, Minister Donkeys.
I've been looking for more of an explanation on that, if once we find it we'll get it back to you folks, but I can't. Wait to hear, you know, if he gets hired, him and Don Fisher talking about donkeys, you know, how how's the donkey feed, you know, is, is Joe Exotic going to become an Indiana basketball fan like we don't know here. Here's the question I have for you, man. I was looking it up, I kind of stopped my research at the donkeys because I got very
intrigued by that. So I apologize for the dumb question. I'm looking at his Ken Pom page as well. Why didn't North Texas make the tournament in 23? What am I missing They? Lost in the second round of the Conference USA tournament. And the problem, the problem they had was that they just didn't have any good wins. I went back and looked at this like, if you look at like they were 31 and seven and a lot of people thought they were going to make it the 31.
Seven's kind of a misconception because they won. They, they, I think it was not the NIT, I think it was the CBI. They, so they padded with five additional wins. And but if you look at the what they did over the course of the season, like their best wins on the season were against UAB. They actually played UAB four times. They beat them on the road, they beat them at home. They lost to them in the Conference USA tournament and they beat them in the championship.
And so that's why you, you had that situation where they didn't make the tournament because they just got bounced too early and they didn't have enough on their, their resume to overcome that. But it, it's one of those things where, and it was, it was the CBI or no, I'm sorry, it was the NIT. It was not the CBI. So they won the NIT. No, sorry, I screwed up again, you know. Ken Palm says NIT on there. I know that that's, that's my fault on the, on the research.
Anyway, point being what you've got with this situation with with them, they won the, they won the CBI at North Texas in 2018. They won the NIT in 23. So he actually won both, He's won two major tournaments. Take that Ben McCollum. He's, you know, he won both the CBI and the NIT and then it's. A donkey every time he wins a
title, that's that's his rule. But this kind of it highlights to some degree how difficult it can be to coach at a place like North Texas in like Conference USA where you are kind of riding the line of you can win a lot of games if you're a good team, but you may not be playing a lot of top teams. And that creates a lot of problems in terms of making it in the NCAA tournament. So I think that was the
situation there. When you can't blame him for scheduling too, because nobody wants to play those teams like it's right. It's a tough place schedule. No I everything here I like. The only thing that again pops out is and it seems to be this is the offseason of slow pace coaches like again, his pace in a touch to tempo is unbelievably slow. It got slower at North Texas, it's getting slower at Texas Tech. It feels like it comes in and just slows everything down.
So that would be something to look at. But his offense has, you know, it's a well run offense. It has good shooting. So it, it isn't what we would expect. Like we saw with Archie where the defense slows everything down, but the offense is also kind of a mess. Like just looking at the numbers, it's a very efficient offense. It it runs very well. Just he runs a slow pace. It's not going to be a running gun type team.
I'm a with you on that. I mean, I think this is one of those guys who I I look at what he did tempo wise at at North Texas and I say to myself, well, that looks like a circumstantial thing perhaps. And the fact they're not running that slow. And this is my this is my issue with McCollum. It's like Mccollum's clearly choosing to play this slow at Drake in his first year.
That could change down the road. And maybe it's just a product of circumstance, but it wasn't like it wasn't like Mccaslin came out of the gates doing that at North Texas. So I think it's going to be interesting kind of keeping an eye on how all that meters out. I think this guy's got a lot of potential. We've heard a lot though, that he's not leaving the state of Texas. He's a Baylor alum, which if you connect the dots to some of our earlier podcasts, is an interesting aspect.
These are the kinds of things I think we're going to keep an eye on. I would be surprised if Mccaslin ended up being the higher, but if he was the higher and we could find a place for the miniature donkey, I would be on board with it because he's this guy's got a lot of the fingerprints of a guy who can recruit at a high level. His teams play really hard. Texas Tech is not the hardest
thing. We should just start putting out stories like I've heard from a source that one of my class on the donkeys is named Cheney. Or Bailey. Yeah, I like that. Just just get like, Steven, get Goodman on the horn, start planting stories like that. I'll see what I can do. I'll work on that. That's hilarious. I love that. I come away really interested. I like everything about it. But you're right, everything in Meigs Texas.
But you know, guys we just talked about with Knight, he's I mean Ohio and Indiana right next to other. But you, you know, you are where you are forever until you're not and then you go somewhere. I mean, Scott Drew was Midwest his whole career and then goes to Baylor and now he's a Texas guy. So I would be probably like a 79 to an 80 on this just because it, it kind of checks all the
boxes of what we would want. Somebody who has experience, who's wanted other levels and he's he's got miniature donkeys, so I'm in. Let's go to our last two real quick. Oh, my number on him. I'd be a, I'd be a 65, maybe 70. Like it'd be excited. I wouldn't be as excited as the names there. Yeah, it's, it's a it's good all the way around.
Like it would be one of those slightly off the board hires, but would be the kind of of person that you look at and you're like, oh, OK, I can see this working. And you know, and there's an unlike for instance, Ben McCollum, there's a long track record of success and high level winning at a school that's above the mid major level. You know, I was kind of look at Conference USA when North Texas was in it as like being the one step below.
And it's actually where Dusty May did most of his work as well. So anyway, let's go to our last two candidates. We're going to get these relatively quickly because I don't think either of them is actually coming, but I do want to talk about them because their names have been mentioned. One of them is Shaka Smart. So Shaka Smart at Marquette and hold on a second here, having a little bit of a, there we go, we're back. Wait, a little bit of a of a loading issue there, but we're
good. But Shaka Smart has been talked about quite a bit. And Shaka Smart, of course is a guy that I think everybody in college basketball is very aware and familiar with. Smart, of course, when he, you know, he's, he's still very young. He'll be 48 at the start of the upcoming college basketball season. But it feels like he's been in our lives forever because he kind of has started coaching as the head coach at Virginia Commonwealth in 2010, got VCU to
a Final Four, which was a shock, as you know. 11 seed right? Like 11 play in team I. Think as a play in team made the tournament all of the remaining years that he was at VCU and they were a very competitive team throughout that whole time and played a very up tempo style that was really attractive. They were really, really hard defense team. They played that havoc defense that that was the talk of the town for a while. Gets hired by Texas to replace Rick Barnes and it just doesn't work.
You know, they have a a string of disappointing seasons where, you know, even with that they they're a three seed in 2021, but then they lose in the first round of the tournament and they essentially depart by mutual consent after six years because it's just not working. He goes to Marquette and he's a Milwaukee native. He's a you know, he's a Midwest guy and seems to really have it rolling there in year 3. They I'm sorry, in they're in year 4 right now.
Last year finally broke back through the second weekend barrier after many years of not making it out of the first weekend. They make it to a Sweet 16 at Marquette this year. His teams have been right around the fringes of the top 25 most of the season. It's a little bit of a weaker Big East this year, but they're 22 and 7 and just a coach that's got a lot of intrigue around him. A guy that most people really
respect in the business. It's just, A, there hasn't been the sustained tournament success and B, you go to Texas and you don't really make it work. That's a really big program. Marquette's a little more self-contained.
You worry that you're looking at a coach kind of like Tom Crean, who's able to work it at one particular level where you've got some limitations on what you do when you work within those, as opposed to being able to work at a school like Texas or Indiana that has unlimited resources. But sometimes that can perversely make it harder to do your job because you've got the spotlight. There's there's higher expectations.
This may be just a situation where Shaka just isn't quite built for this level and therefore he may not even be interested in looking at it. Again, what we'll keep kind of, you know, Smart won 100 games in 2013, still not as young as Bob Knight when he won 100 games. Just throwing that out there. Yes, for Shaka, it's all about that Texas time.
What I thought is interesting looking at Texas when you dug into the numbers is as you said, he had the havoc defense at VCU but also had one of the fastest offenses or a very fast offense in tempo. You know, for a couple of years there mid level, I should say like one of the years of 22nd and tempo, but then he goes to Texas and it is three O 62123 sixteen 3/22/92 1:46. That's rank in the nation in
tempo. Just completely changes the tempo that they played and they were always in the top 100 at VCU. It's an odd thing to happen because for a team that plays a havoc quick style of defense and and played a relatively fast play pace, just go that slow was odd. He still had some pretty effective offenses and defenses there, but as you said, no real success. And now he gets to Marquette and here's the tempo numbers 25136 ninety 2175. He's kind of back to his VCU days.
So it just begs the question like what happened to Texas? Like was did he come in? Was he was he pushed to do something he didn't want to do based on boosters or the based on the university? Did he try something different at that high level where, you know, where the resource not there it that's the question they want to ask Or the other way to look at it is maybe he learned his lesson. He went to the big leagues. He changed something. It didn't work. He's like, you know what?
No, I got to stick to my guns. He's now sticking to his guns at Marquette. It's working. And now if you take him to the next level, it would now it would really work and it would, you know, be be a home run. So I think that's the question you have to ask is like what happened to Texas? Why was the pace so different and why didn't it work? Yeah, it's a it's a great question. And I think ultimately a lot of it really just comes down to I just don't think it was a good
cultural fit. Yeah, you know, and, and sometimes you get that. Sometimes it just doesn't work. And, you know, Marquette loves him. He he seems to fit really well there. It's what makes me think he isn't really a legitimate candidate for the IU job because even though it's a lot closer culturally to what he's probably used to. And certainly IU at its core cares about basketball historically a lot more than they care about football.
Whereas Texas is the alternate or the OR the the opposite of that. I just wonder, you know, if he's there at Marquette now and it's rolling for him, why would you look to go to Indiana? Where is a possibility? It might not work out. And again, it's like sometimes you'll get guys who can coach really well at a VCU or a Marquette, which Marquette a major program. But the Big East is not a power conference. And, and there's a big difference in your your budgets.
You're recruiting like what you're doing. You're at a private school. So you've got some different things going on there. But he's a really fascinated candidate and he's clearly, and he's clearly not a bad coach. I think the question was that he loses fastball at Texas. That's to me clearly not the case because he's gotten it up and running at Marquette very quickly.
When you mentioned the the private school, like he signed an extension after he signed a contract in 2021 in six years signed an extension, but the financial details of the contract aren't just being disclosed at their private university. So they're not. So I don't even know what his buyout is or what his contract is. But yeah, it does.
It also feels like if there's not a lot of smoke around this one and it feels like if this was where we were going there be. But again, IU doesn't talk a lot. So maybe it is maybe it is there. I mean, I, I think it's just that, that Texas question of was it just a bad cultural fit or is it that, that next level he's having trouble with?
And I I don't know. I mean, I, I kind of lean towards the latter and Texas, I think, I think people interpreted a lot of Rick Barnes failures as Rick Barnes problems when it might have been Texas. I mean, because if you go back and look at the history of Texas basketball, what what Rick Barnes did at Texas is pretty unprecedented. And the fact that chalk is smart hasn't really gotten it going.
The fact that, you know, Rodney Terry hasn't really gotten it going and he may get fired there, you know, Texas is not. What you said with Indiana, like all Indiana coaches have not had success afterwards. You look at like Rick Barnes doing just fine, Shaka Smart doing just fine. It's like you, you. This coach isn't in the equation there. Right. Yeah. And and so I, I will wonder about that as we move forward, but that's essentially where
we're at with things so. I would anyway. 7073 or 74? I'd be at like a 65 because I just just, I think I respect the hell out of Shaka as a coach and I'd love to have them running my program. I but I do think they'll be better answers out there. And, and if it and it there's no shame, there would be no shame in hiring Shaka smart. I think most people be like, oh, Shaka wants to give it another go with the highest level and IU believes in him.
But I also think like, well, we, we've already hired 1 coach from Marquette that had struggled to have success at the highest levels after he got hired here. That might be a slight bridge too far given all the other equations. So anyway, last one we want to hit and we'll do this in relatively quickly. Todd Golden. Todd Golden, currently the head coach of the the very much on fire, yeah, Florida Gators. He's only going to be 40 years old at the start of the upcoming season.
He's 120 and 68 in his career, 638 win percentage. He's 32 and 19 so far in the SEC, only an O and two tournament record. But what we're watching right now is a coach who's just finally starting to get it going at Florida. He was at San Francisco for three years, went to an NCAA tournament at San Francisco 16 and 17. His first year at Florida, 24
and 12:00. Last year they made the tournament and then of course this year their 4th and Ken Palm 25 and 4 right there in the mix for a two seed, maybe even a one seed in the NCAA tournament. Like they they're going to play at Alabama on Wednesday of this week. Really checks a ton of boxes in terms of the type of attractive basketball that I like to see. Scott, and that's not a surprise because he's a Bruce Pearl assistant worked, you know, for,
for Pearl for a while. He's he's just an interesting character in general. There, there is an asterisk there, which is, of course, he was very publicly the subject of a Title 9 investigation that was launched back in October involving allegations of of stalking and inappropriate behavior. Now he was cleared of the Title 9 investigation. Florida dropped that.
The question there is, you know, for those who understand how Title 9 allegations work, like he kind of got screwed and that those are supposed to be private and these were these were allegations that were then leaked by the accusers to media in Gainesville and elsewhere. He was cleared of that. You know, Title 9 investigations only really apply to things that are happening in the college environment. Was there untoward stuff that happened outside of that?
It's not totally clear from looking at the reports. It's a very murky situation, so there's a little bit of a cloud
there. But at the end of the day, he was cleared by Florida on the Title 9 front, and that's really all we have to go off of. Everything else about what they're doing on the court really checks a ton of boxes as he has taken a Florida program that had kind of fallen by the wayside a little bit in terms of the successes they had had under Billy Donovan. Mike White kind of petered out
there, ended up leaving. Now he's the coach of Georgia, and it seems like Golden's gotten them right back to where they were like 15 years ago. Yeah. I mean, it's the title nine thing is just an asterisk there that you have to mention it, but he was cleared. It doesn't look good, but it's like we don't know what to what to make of that. Just putting that you have to put that aside. Not that it doesn't matter, but you put that aside and the coaching wise it looks
fantastic. I mean, it looks like this guy is going to be a great coach. He's turned it around quickly at Florida. I mean, only two tournaments, not a ton of, you know, not a ton to go off of.
But again, as we've mentioned, you look at a lot of the best coaches in the in college game right now, not a lot of them had like unbelievable tournament success or even head coaching experience to go off of. A lot of times the guys who have those one hits where they make a final four, it doesn't always work out that way. Or even a lead 8. I'm looking at you Tom Crean and Archie Miller. So everything here points to a guy who's going to have a great
career. This also feels to me similar to like a Nate Oates where like he landed in a spot that has a ton of money, has a ton of resources, and they're just probably going to pay off the nose to keep them there. And this is this is a a program that has, you know, more recent success than even Nate Oates at Alabama with, you know, you know, Alabama, not really historical. I mean, Florida, a football school, but they have two back-to-back titles under Bill O'gonoman.
They know how to get that infrastructure rolling when they want to get it rolling. They probably know what they have. I have no idea what his contractor buyout is. But again, this just feels very much like it's going to be hard to pry him away from Florida, much like you're going to see NATO is probably not going to be pride away from Alabama. So that that's kind of my take
is this, this looks awesome. This looks like something that's unattainable and we probably missed out because this is just one. You know, you should have hired him in 2022. There's no way IU was in a position to do this. This is one of those where it's just it's not, it was never going to be in the cards for IU and Golden to to sync up. It feels like. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. It's a really good point. I mean, again, you just said it. Florida's won two national titles.
Since the last time IU made a Final four and and you know, it's just it doesn't seem like why would you leave Florida? Who has proven that they'll support basketball that you can recruit down there like all of that and you're already you're already there, you're already having success. Why go anywhere, I think would be the operative question. But he'd be, again, a name that had been popped up a few times that we wanted to, to at least try to tackle as he's clearly a
very good coach. And we'll see what happens with his career moving forward. But I don't think that his career is going to coincide with being at Indiana. So give me a number. I mean, I, I, I would be, I'd be, I'd be 485. I'd be very high. I'd be, I'd be about a 75 only because of the slight cloud over the weirdness around the title nine thing. But in terms of on court like that, he's right there in that same mix with those top guys. So I'll go exact same number
with you then. So I, I agree with the the off court, but on the court it's in the mid 80s. Yeah. Anyway, that'll wrap it up for this edition of Crimson Cast as we continue to bring you our our coaching search updates. More of these later in the week, as well as taking a look at what goes on with Indiana if they play Oregon this week. We'll be back midweek to talk more about all of that for Scott. I'm Galen. This is Crimson cast.
We'd like to thank you folks for joining us here on the program and we'll be back soon. Catch you folks. On the flip side, stay never daunted, bring back the bison. So everybody.