You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Casts, folks. GAIL and Clavier. Here it is, Friday, February 23rd of the year 2024. It's good to have you back here listening to us on the show. Great night last night for IU Women's basketball. They absolutely slaughtered the Iowa Hawkeyes in Assembly Hall. A sold out crowd and the vast, vast majority of those people were there to watch IU women's basketball.
Not Caitlin Clark alone, although Caitlin Clark was a great addition, but are you really answering the critics who had shoveled dirt on their season just a couple of days ago after that loss in Illinois? It's a wild big 10 so far this year on the women's side, but Congrats to the ladies as that was a an absolute domination by them and Congrats to Sarah Scalia and to Mackenzie Holmes and Sydney Parish back off the
bench, get some big threes. So really exciting game all the way around and glad everybody got a chance to to check that out. We've got Tony Andrania joining us on the show today. Tony, good to see you. We don't do this often enough so it's great to to have you on the show. How you doing today? I'm fantastic. It's always a pleasure to be back here on on Crimson Cast. Goes back a long time, my first
first time being on the show. I remember I think it was like 2011 I think was the first time you were on the show which yeah that we're we're really that was actually very close to back when IU men's basketball was this bad we're. A little better than. Slightly, yes. We wanted to bring Tony on. We actually planned on doing this podcast after the Northwestern game and and we couldn't for a variety of reasons and it's even more prescient now that we have Tony on I think after the Nebraska
game. So we're going to talk a little bit about where IU men's basketball is AT and and what the heck's going on and and whether or not this is a recoverable tailspin at this point for Indiana. But before we get to that, just a reminder folks, we are brought to you by the Back Home network. You've if you're listening to Crimson cast, you're aware of the back Home network.
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Tony, you you've been making some waves lately, which has been good. You had a video up yesterday which was really nice. I think distillation of what I would call the the bloodless but accurate evaluation of what's gone wrong with Indiana men's basketball over the course of the last year. This is, it's become an interesting thing because Indiana right now stands at 6:00 and 9:00 in the conference. They're 14 and 12 on the season, and it just kind of feels like the season.
It isn't just like kind of adrift, like it's act actively gone downhill, especially here over the last three weeks. Really. Yeah, there was a lot of optimism coming out of that Iowa game. It's like, OK, they they struggled with that three-game sequence of Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois. I think everybody kind of was hoping that maybe a win would come out of that sequence, but it didn't. They come back, they almost blow the Iowa game, but they end up winning it. It's like, all right, maybe,
maybe things stabilize. Then they have an embarrassing loss to Penn State. They nearly lose to an absolutely catatonic Ohio State program, and now they've lost three games in a row at home, including home losses that they absolutely could not afford to Northwestern and Nebraska. There's been a lot of controversy about Mike Woodson, like what should be the perspective, How should we feel
about this? But I think as you really accurately pointed out in your video, and if you haven't seen the video folks go to Twitter, check out Tony's Twitter account because it's it's there. It's about 6 minutes long. It's worth watching. This is not personal. This is really like it's a business thing but the business is bad right now and IU basketball just absolutely
doesn't look like itself. And and Tony, I've thought about this and kind of going back to when the, you know, when we had you first on the pod, it's been almost 15 years since I can recall the the basketball product on the court looking as disconnected from good basketball as it is right now.
And I don't know. I mean, you're when you watch this, I mean, how do you reconcile this in your head or is there a way to reconcile it in your head other than just man, mistakes were made and mistakes keep getting made. More of the latter, unfortunately, yeah. It's it's really been just a hard to watch because they I I've gone back to this in a few different times when I'm spoken about the Indiana basketball team. But there's just not an identity.
So like any given night, you don't know what they're going to hang their hat on. Like, if there's any identity about IU basketball, unfortunately right now it's negative. It's like they're going to dig themselves, you know, big holes. They're not going to play hard for 40 minutes. They're going to turn the ball over at alarming rates. Like, you know, it's like those are are more of their identities than anything else. And that's that's where the alarm bells ring.
Because it's not like, like I mentioned in my video yesterday, the the offense is really bad and you can make excuses for whatever that case may be. But, like, the defense is just as bad. So there's not even like the identity of the defense, which is really, you know, a lot of folks talk about like Xavier Johnson carried the team in the tournament, Mike Woodson's first year with his play in the Big 10 tournament, and that that is 100% true.
But what the foundation that was laid for them to be able to make that run was actually defense. Like that was Mike Woodson's best team on defense. Far and away I think Ken Palm, they were like 24th in in defensive efficiency. So like they hung their hat on that. They were pretty good on the defensive end. Well, this year they're 102nd defense, so like they don't have even identity on the defensive end. So when I watch it it's just like the offense is bad, the
defense is bad. There's there's nothing that's consistently good and and that's why they're outside the kid palm top 100 right now is is there isn't anything that's consistently good and that's that's frustrating and it's it's very alarming moving forward as well. I think, I mean, I was in the crowd for the Northwestern game and I wasn't in the crowd for the Nebraska game. I I went and and watched that with some friends.
But both of those games, the Purdue game, the Penn State game, most of the Ohio State game, I I really did try to sit there and think to myself why like why is this not working? And there's a bunch of reasons and and you highlighted several
of them in your video. But when I watch this team, the the thing that resonates with me more than anything else is like there are obviously really talented basketball players on this team and they make individually talented plays, but there is very little cohesion and unity among this team. They do not play as a unit and I don't really blame the players for that. It it it does not appear that there is much of AA blueprint for them to operate within.
Am I off base when I say that or does that seem like a a core issue for you? It's absolutely a core issue and to me it's just like the players, their strengths aren't being maximized. You know, it's it's instead of taking the players and building a system, it's taking the system and trying to build the players. And as a head coach that's
that's great and all. If you have a a plan and an identity you're trying to recruit to but that that doesn't just that isn't how Mike Woodson has operated. You know it's not like he's trying to get certain types of players to fit into some certain type of system. He's just gone out and tried to acquire talent and then hey I'm going to make them fit my system my mold. Well that doesn't work very well as we're seeing.
So I think you're 100% right that you know they're just there's no plan to maximize the strengths of what this roster can do on both ends. You know, I I think Indiana could get up on the defensive end and and pressure a little bit more with some of the length and athleticism that they've got. Defense or offensively, Nicole Aware is an extreme lob threat, but you know they don't.
They don't have him run a lot of ball screen actions or what people would call the Spain pick and roll where he's getting a back screen after he sets the ball screen. Like there's just not a lot of things that maximize strengths. You know, with Gabe Cubs, he's he's actually a pretty Dang good spot up shooter believe it or not. He's shooting over 40% from spot up threes this season. But you know he's not really a guy that's going to turn the corner on the ball screen and get to the cup.
But when he's in the game, you know they've got him trying to turn the corner on ball screens. Like that's just not his game And then people get frustrated. You're like what's he even out there for? You know, he doesn't even look to score, look to shoot well, his strengths are being maximized. So that that to me is, is a large issue is that Mike Woodson has a system that he wants to
run and he wants to play. And it's very clear now what that is. And you know, it was kind of thought all right, he had Trace Jackson Davis, one of the top two players in the country last season. Like it makes sense to feed him the ball in the post and let him operate as inefficient as post basketball. May be that that you know that optimized Indiana's offensive basketball. Now they don't have a top two
offensive player in the country. You know I would say Malik Renew is maybe top 100 player in the country. I don't know I I could be off base on that. But you know Malik Renew is a good player but he's not trace Jackson Davis. But they run the exact same system for him. So if you're going to run the exact same system for a guy but he's nowhere near the level of player, well, what results are you expecting? Were you expecting the same results with a different type of player? Like?
To me that's that's where a large issue lies right now. Yeah, it's I think, you know the the toughest thing for me the whole season. And I mean, I was, I was banging on about this early when people were just complaining about the offense looking junky, which it did and and still does. But I think the thing that's fascinating to me is this team, just it it, it has lacked intensity from the very
beginning of the season. And and you know, you mentioned like those close calls against Army against Wright State. We saw it in the Kennesaw State game, We saw it in the Morehead state game. And then, you know, the chickens have kind of come home to roost on that because you know, if you're struggling with intensity against lower tier competition, you're probably going to struggle with intensity against
upper tier competition. And it just, it feels like this team is not, they're not like, they don't, they're not like Louisville, like they don't suck all the time, but they're really only good for about 110 to 12 minute stretch every game. And then when things start, sometimes, a lot of times that's at the beginning of the game and then that gets disrupted by the
substitution patterns. But it's I think we've almost blamed the substitution patterns too much and we haven't blamed the reality that this team is just mentally and emotionally very fragile and when stuff starts to not go their way, they cannot get over it. You know, I think about like the so the women's game last night is an interesting contrast. You know Indiana builds a 17 point lead.
They have a couple of shots that don't go in Iowa goes on like a nine nothing run and cuts the lead, I think to seven. And then you know there's a time out, they come back out. Sydney Parish, it's a 3. Sydney Parish, it's another three and it's like they're back and suddenly that intensity is is reinvested. That is absolutely lacking in this men's basketball team right now for IU. They just, they they take a punch and in most cases cannot
get back up off the mat. I mean, the one time we really saw them do it was that Ohio State game. But you almost have to put a big asterisk next to that because Ohio State is probably the one team in the conference that's worse at taking a punch than Indiana is. Where does where do you think that comes from? Like this idea? We've heard Mike Woodson blame
injuries. We've heard him blame youth, but we've seen injured teams and we've seen young teams in Indiana uniforms before be able to have a level of resilience that this team just fundamentally does not seem to have. Like what is your analysis of why that is the case? Yeah, I think you take on the identity of your your leadership and and you know I'm not saying that's 100% Mike Woodson. I think the leadership, I mean your your staff, your captains, all of those things.
You know, I I think it's fairly clear Mike Witch and since coaching style is more laid back you know you don't really see him really coming unglued too often. And so, like, I I do think that as a player it's your responsibility to get yourself fired up more than anything. But like it does help when your coach kind of rah rahs you a little bit before the game or whatever the case may be.
So I I think that. But then you look at all right, who are the leaders on this team And it's not even necessarily who's the captains, but it's like who's leading the charge. You know it's Malik Renew and Kalauair more times than not. Well, those are two fairly emotionless guys that that aren't guys that are are pumping you up and and really getting
you going. So it's like that those things are kind of working against you when your your leadership is also more of a a laid back kind of, I don't know the right, the right word to put it. So like it's because when you look out at the Ohio State game as a great example, I would say the leader on the floor at that point was Anthony Weil and he was cuddling guys up. He was ramped up at one point.
He says you can read his lips. He says we're going to win this F in game and he's got the guys in a huddle like and they took on his his identity and his leadership and they and they came back. And so it's like the leadership aspect both on the bench and on the floor carries over to the
identity of the team. And so when it's kind of lacking you look at those things and and you know it looked that way in games like the the like you said they've lacked energy and I think that's the identity of the leadership. And like I said, I'm not putting that fully on Mike Woodson. It's also the leaders on the floor that that kind of carry
that. Yeah, it's it's a weird combination and and I think, you know, we we as IU fans and observers, you know, generally try to assign the best possible traits without, you know, to players, without necessarily knowing whether those are true. You know, we look at players and I think everybody wants to believe the best about all of
them. And you know, individually, it does feel like you get guys playing hard in this system, but it's just it's odd because they don't feel like they are able to collectively come together and deal with with situations. And this is where I think parsing this season has been very difficult for a lot of people to get their heads
around. You know, because there have been seasons where Indiana's had bad rosters or rosters that just weren't like were I'll fitting had players that people didn't like da da, da da. That's not really this season. For the most part there have been seasons where Indiana didn't have like good scheme. You know, I mean or scheme that just was not fitting. 2014 is a great example of that where
everything went wrong. It was like such an an abnormal season from a statistical perspective from every other season that was in the Tom Crean era or 2004 or 2005 like those sorts of years. The season doesn't really fit under any of those categories, but it also fits under all of
those categories. And and trying to point a finger at roster construction or strategy or motivation or Esprit de corps or whatever, It's like you cannot say this is the reason Indiana's losing games, this is the reason Indiana's bad. It's all of those things simultaneously. It is.
And and to me that points to more of a macro issue which it was kind of where I was going with my video yesterday is like when a lot of the important factors of a good basketball team are bad that that paints A bleak picture for the future. And like again, I'm I don't it's not personal with me with with Mike Woodson he's AIU legend he you know he's he's a fantastic
human being by all accounts. It's just that there are a lot of issues right now within the program and like you said, game to game, it's even different why they lost. You know, it could be chalked with the roster construction or free throws or shooting or whatever the case may be. But like when it's across the board, most things are are bad.
It's really hard to turn that tide because as Mike Woodson has even said is, you know, we got a lot of new pieces and so it's it's hard to get them to play together. And as we've talked about, the cohesion is off. Well, well, next year, it's not like there's going to be a ton of roster cotton here. Thank you, Tony. I'm glad somebody's bringing this up. Go on. Yes. So it's like, all right, well, the next season is going to be a lot of the same in terms of new pieces coming in.
So like if you've said it out of your own mouth, I struggled to get new pieces to play together. It's like, what are we to expect next season then? Yeah, I mean that's this is where there's like two different levels of this. There's obviously the micro level. This season is awful. It and it's weird because you know it's like it's like an every 10 year thing. It's it's like Indiana basketball leap year in the worst possible way. O3O four was an awful season.
It felt like the the crash and burn that everybody thought might be coming a couple years earlier, but didn't 20/13/2014, you get those two great years and then you have that here this year, 2 great years, or not really great years, but an OK year and a better year and then this. But looking at it from a season perspective, it is this oddity where it's not just that everything's going wrong, it's that everything's going wrong. And it's like, well, is this the
actual? IU basketball in terms of where the program's at right now or is this one of those like, well, you know, I my, my, I blew a tire driving into work and you know, my car caught on fire, like right afterwards. You know, it's like you get those seasons where everything goes wrong. They do happen, but it's not like like when North Carolina misses the tournament or Kentucky misses the tournament. It's like, well, OK, that sucked. That's not acceptable.
But hey, look at all these pieces that are already there that were young and needed to coalesce. That's not what's happening right now with this IU team. There's there's not youth pieces on the bench that look like they're ready to come in. Caleb Banks, we haven't seen in a month. CJ Gunn is still very inconsistent and you know, Khalil Ware looks like he's going to go to the pros. I mean, there's just, there's not a lot of things and you only have one player currently
committed. And even in the transfer portal era, it's hard to have a lot of faith that, hey, we're going to put a bunch of new pieces in place. If you're also going to say, well, the reason that Indiana's not playing this well is because of a lack of continuity or a lack of guys who have been in the system. It it might be that everybody who's concerned about this is freaking out for no reason. And we won't know that until
next year, obviously. But it for those of us who are paying attention, all kinds of alarms are going off in terms of where the trajectory of this is headed. Because it just if this is, if this is a representation of what you're going to get moving forward without Trace Jackson,
Davis, that is a real concern. Absolutely and and the transfer portal is is a nice bonus if you have a good roster in place where you can plug a couple of holes but if you've got a lot if you've got five holes to plug you're in trouble and it's it's been evidenced this year with I think it was every team that I got six or more players in the portal at the power five level is is projected to miss the tournament as it currently
stands. You know, we saw Rick Pitino come out last week and and basically say, you know, I, I hit the portal hard and I recruited guys I shouldn't have and it's been an abject disaster essentially. And so the the the continuity aspect is important. I mean Ken Palm has that as a metric for a reason because continuity is important. It's well like if that's kind of the crutch that that we're leaning on here is like we need continuity. It's not going to be there next
year, that's for sure. You right now you've got in the last two freshman classes, you brought in a total of four players now with Chuck Newton Cape cops and then you got a late Mackenzie and Bacco edition and then right now you've got one guy in Liam Mcneely in the freshman class. So it's like the foundation that that you're leisurely building on is pretty rocky and shaky. And then you know just as a side note that 2014 team was was really bad and they were Ken
Pong 60 something. We're Ken pong 104 right now. So like almost double is bad. Yeah, I mean this is to some degree I think sometimes we overestimate good IU teams and we underestimate how bad some bad IU teams are. This is, this is significantly worse. I mean, we've pointed this out before. You you do have to go back to what Crane's third year to, well, you have to go back to the second year to find a team
worse. But you have to go back to Crane's third year to find a team that has had the kind of struggles. But that team, I remember having a podcast debate with a good friend of ours, Pierce Kavanaugh. Father Pierce Kavanaugh. Now Jimmy Kavanaugh. At the time, I remember poster season, he was and he was right. I was wrong. But he was trying to point out like, well, that team. They were 12 and 20. They were 3 and 15, but they were, there were seeds that had been planted that year.
You had, you know, Christian Watford kind of broken out. Will she? He and Victor Oladipo look like promising guys coming off the bench. You know you had Jordan Holes who had kind of established himself as as a a dead eye shooter There you could see the beginnings of a system that was starting to take hold which would really take off the next year because you had Cody Zeller
coming into the picture. It's hard to look at this year's team and say, oh, seeds are being planted and and there's a definite direction for the program. And that is that is a real concern. And and I think I understand the perspective of fans out there who are saying, oh, you all you people who are you know, are upset about what's going on or calling for Mike Woodson to move on or whatever are way overreacting to one bad season. The one bad season happens. I get that perspective.
But I think if you pay attention to college basketball close enough, over time there's a there's a difference in tenor between a bad season out of a string of good seasons and a bad season that looks and feels like a trajectory change of a program. And that is, I think, at least for me, and I feel like for you, it's the same thing.
That is why I've been so increasingly concerned over the last month and a half about because I, I, I really looked at this team and I said, OK, they're clearly there's more talent on this team this year than there was in that 2010, 2011 team by far. I mean, just in terms of star ratings, in terms of overall basketball quality. But there, there is very little sense of what Indiana wants to do as working, especially on defense. Like I can deal with the not great offensive team if there's
a lot of defensive intensity. We see teams make the tournament all the time that are subpar on offense, but they are locked down defensively and this team just looks incredibly. I don't, I don't even know if it's that their lackadaisical on defense, Tony, but they just they're not in the right spots a lot of the time. They're not defending the three-point line particularly well. They're not closing out on shooters. They they're easy to break down off the dribble.
They get all kinds of discombobulated when the ball moves a bunch on the perimeter. So I look at all of that and and I try to put that in the context and I'm like that is A and that that was kind of what it was like last year too. I mean the length that Indiana had managed to bail them out of a lot of those situations. But this has been the system and we've watched the defensive efficiency of this team sink like a stone in the three years that Mike Woodson has been the
head coach. That is among many other reasons why it's so concerning about the trajectory of things 'cause it doesn't just feel like a one off now. Again, we might be sitting here in February of 2025 saying, God, we sounded like idiots last year, but it doesn't feel that way. And it's a kind of an unknowable thing, but it's a real problem. It's a very real problem.
And you know, I remember when in Scott Dolson's, I don't know if it was a press conference or a news release when they fired Archie Miller. And he talked about the search, coaching, search process. And he said, you know, we're going to look for somebody on the cutting edge of, you know, basketball that that, you know, looks at analytics and looks at how the games being played and functions that way.
Well, the system, and I'm not saying this just to be like, funny, the system is literally exactly what Archie Miller did. I mean, offensively, defensively, our identity is exactly the same. Except. Not except not as efficient. Except worse. Yeah, you know, Mike Woodson doesn't call his defense pack line. It's pack line. He sits in gaps and he he tries to pressure the ball, go over the top of screens. He's in drop coverage on ball screens. That's pack line.
He's in the pack line. Defense, offensively forced run their offense through the post 2 posts on the blocks. Archie Miller ran the blocker mover with Joey Bronk and Trace Jackson Davis on the block like it is the exact same system. So you kind of let Archie Miller go because those things weren't working. You got it. Again. I mean it's it's it's not exactly the same. It's the same but worse as it
currently stands. And that part's what's concerning to me and I also think two I I think a lot of fans that that are in the hey it's one bad season you got to relax. I I think they it's more of a a box score watching standings watching 14 and 12. N Carolina had a bad season last year like those things are very surface level but there is nuance and context behind them.
North Carolina last year missed the tournament there were 43 in Ken Palm. There were 13 spots behind Indiana and and like you said had the pieces there and they're coming off a national runner up like that that that. Matters. Well. A little extra context for everybody, yes. That's that's not anywhere in the realm of what Indiana's doing this season. And I get, I keep citing Kenpong, but that's because it's an unbiased metric.
Like there's no human poles or anything there like 14 and 12 Indiana and 14 and 12 N Carolina last year are not the same. And and that's what I keep trying to get across here is it's like it's deeper than just the record. It's deeper than just some losses to good teams. It's like it's the how and the context and the nuance that is involved in that. And that's where I think some people struggle to kind of look that deep at it, I guess.
Yeah, I mean and and look, I I don't want Indiana to look like they're on a bad trajectory. I would like to be like, well, gosh, I want to be able to explain away the the way that Indiana's playing, which has been poor and say, well, this is all in service of something greater. I just don't see the greater at this point. And and and again, maybe we'll be wrong, but it feels like it's subtractive as opposed to additive.
If if that makes sense to everybody, like, it really feels like, weirdly, it's like, you know, I never thought I would say this either, but it feels like, well, there was a foundation laid with what Archie Miller did and and Mike Woodson did a good job of bringing in Miller cop. And you know, when Xavier Johnson was healthy, that was a good addition. But those pieces are gone and the rest of the pieces have not meshed like at all.
And the team cohesion that made last year's team work as well as it did, and it didn't work. It wasn't always working like it was a that was a season. It's weird. You look back at, it's like, wow, second in the Big 10, second round of the tournament. And yet there were a lot of games last year where it kind of felt like Indiana just barely got over the line. And they did so because of their individual talent and the fact that they really played as a
coherent unit. This year, they're not playing like a coherent unit. They don't have quite the level of talent and they're not doing all of that. And now you're looking at it and it's like, well, where does that come from, especially if you're going to have to go deep into the transfer portal to find guys to come in and somehow assemble
all of that moving forward. That's a daunting task given that you had to already dip into the portal and the I'm not going there anywhere pool, what I don't know what we call that recruiting pool, but we've gotten Tamar Bates and you've gotten Mackenzie and Bacco out of it here the last couple of years. There's not a lot of deep ties to the players who would be in Indiana uniforms next year.
So you're really you're rolling the dice to an extreme degree that you're somehow going to have the numbers come up positive when they clearly didn't this year. And I think that's that to me is the main difference between like
the North Carolina situation. I look I actually the the team I think a lot about or the program I think a lot about right now is Villanova. You know Jay Wright retires they you know they they bring in Kyle Neptune as the head coach and it's just not the same you know that in in the three years that Neptune has been or the sorry the two years he's been there they've been 17 and 17 and then they're 15 and 11 now they're
better this year. I would weirdly I you know given even that they're almost the same record as Indiana I would kill for Villanova's record right now because the 31st and Ken Palm they've played fairly well. They've been really good defensively but they just haven't won the games they need to win. But even with that, they they what made Villanova. Villanova is not there right now.
And so I worry about that a lot with Indiana, where it just kind of feels like it's trending in a direction where there's not a lot of of cohesion or identity as far as the program. And trying to plug new pieces in who have never played with each other really feels like it's going to be a concern moving forward. Yeah, and would, would, would honestly make me just feel better and and I get it.
I'm I'm just a fan and the fans are owed nothing but I I do think that they are a big piece to the equation in terms of you know obviously within IO Now it it certainly is a bigger pack factor but the Indiana fans are die hard and and you know the I think the vast majority of us are actually fairly reasonable you know I I think that we get a bad Rep sometimes national media wise and oh they're impatient blah blah blah blah.
But I would like it if Mike Woodson would just look directly in a camera and say this season is unacceptable by every stretch of the imagination. Indiana basketball should never be this low and I'm going to fight like hell this off season to right these wrongs and it's on me. And if he just said that, I would feel much better about the trajectory of next season. Because it would.
It would relay to me that like he understands the failures of this season and how deep they are, but instead we get guys, we're young, you know the the talent hasn't meshed. You know, we've had some injury issues or whatever the case may be. So to me, and I get it and he's not going to say everything publicly, but like to me, I I struggle to know that he actually understands like the deep rooted issues that are going on with this team and and
how to fix him. Because to be quite frank, he's never had to do it. Like, you know that it's at at the college level. Like, you know, I I mentioned this somewhere else. But like this is the first time in his life he's ever had to play GM and head coach. And there are differences like, you know, in terms of of talent evaluation and and then getting rosters to to be together.
Like as a head coach in the NBA. Yes, you've got to say in guys you bring in and whatnot, but there's somebody employed above you that actually that's their job is to figure all those things out. He's never had to do that and and so the fact that he's never done it before and all of a sudden he's tasked with this this grand, you know problem and really hasn't hasn't said he knows that's the problem. That's where to me it's like, man, like.
Yeah, it's tough concerning. I I think about that a lot. I and I I think well is that is that fair to say Well the coach should come out and like make a clear statement but look I I do think this I think you're I think you're right. I'm I'm sure there's people out there who would argue no you guys are are are blinded by whatever. Are you fandom? Are you fans? Are actually pretty patient and are generally pretty reasonable and again you're free to laugh at that if you want.
I know a lot of you like there's a there's a weird kind of identity and say no are you fans suck. This is the worst fan base on the planet whatever. But some kind of public recognition that things are not going well and you know we realize that we know it's
disappointing. We're working on it would, I think, go a long way because I I really do think fans want to believe that Mike Woodson knows what's going on and that Mike Woodson is, is able to fix the problems that have suddenly hit this program hit, you know, straight in the face. It doesn't feel that way. And I and I think you know where a lot of the frustration from fans has come from is it's the same mistakes. It's the same problems over and
over again every single game. And, you know, it's it's you go on Twitter or you know some other social media during a game and it's just you're playing the hits. It's the substitution patterns, or it's the lack of outside shots, or it's the inability to close out on defense.
It's the lack of intensity that you you let Nebraska score almost a point and 1/2 per possession in the first half of the game and it's like, well, gosh, you just letting Northwestern score 1.2 points per possession for the whole game. It's like it never changes. And there doesn't seem to be any real, like acknowledgement that yes, there are problems and we know that there are problems.
And there's also even non verbally, there's no clear visual recognition that yes, these are the issues that are causing us to lose and we're trying different things. It feels like the same stuff gets rolled out all the time and the same results end up happening over and over again. That is incredibly frustrating. I don't know. I don't know honestly for the rest of the fan base if it would help if Mike Woodson came out and just like gave a 5 minute dissertation on all the problems.
But it would make me feel better because it would at least I'd be like, OK, he gets it, he understands, he knows what's going on, he acknowledges it, and at least there's some kind of an effort. I, you know, to some degree, I feel like Crane in his third year, like kind of did that in as much as there was at least an acknowledgement that things weren't happening the way that he had envisioned. And that again, it bought him some extra time with fans to
some degree. Because at least they were like, well, OK, he's at least realizing that changes have to be made, and then they ended up getting made later. Exactly. And and like he said like he he doesn't owe it to us or anything like that. But I think it would go a long way in terms of like, you know I I think most fans right now like his seats pretty Dang hot.
I think it would be cool. But if he would just say like this is not acceptable and it's it's my fault and I'm going to work like hell to fix it. And I think something as simple as that would would go a long way. But instead it's it's more of the excuse making and you know we've played well in spurts. It's like well the game's 40
minutes you know. So it's that part of it is just what's frustrating to me and and it's just like does he identify these things like you would think and hope like he's been around basketball forever you would you would expect that he's identified these things. But it's just that the fact that it hasn't really been acknowledged and like you said, it hasn't been acknowledged on the court or like, you know, I I don't want to dissect everything he says in press conferences.
But, you know, Mackenzie and Bacco, I think since the second he committed to Indiana, people been like, man, him at a small ball four would be a sight to see. Like, you know, he he kind of has a little mellow to him. Like he's 68. He's got a good frame. He, he moves pretty slow laterally. He lacks some athleticism on the wing.
Like small Ball 4 might be a great thing for him against Northwestern. He gets forced into playing Mackenzie and Baca with the four for really the first time of the season. They play pretty Dang well doing it. And you know, he comes out and says essentially, yeah, we might explore that a little bit moving forward. And it's like, OK, well it's, you know, it's it's early February.
Now that's just the concerning piece of it where it's just like if if people like me and other folks on Twitter can identify these things, you know back in June or whatever when Mackenzie and Bacco came aboard, it's like why is it taking till February to even acknowledge like we we might give that a look. That's it. Just again, it lends to the the macro picture of things, why I'm more concerned about like what Indiana looks like moving forward than I do like.
The 20/23/24 season, like this season, is obviously a loss. You know, barring a miracle run in the Big 10 tournament, there's got to be no postseason. We're great in the Big 10 tournament, Tony. Let's not write that off so easily. So you know, OK, there's one last thing I want to get to before I let you go, which is the booing in in Assembly Hall for the Nebraska game. There wasn't really much booing during the Northwestern game, but but it was really out in force for Nebraska.
This is a weird one because you just don't get that in Assembly Hall very often. And look, it's it's a bad idea to Boo your own players on your home floor. It it's just like collectively. It's dumb from like a perception standpoint more than anything else. If you're booing your own players in the college game, it happens in the pros sometimes, but they generally have to be
real bad to get to that point. But in the college game, especially when you know a large amount of why a player would want to go play somewhere is oh, they'll like me there. When you see footage of a player getting booed like that's, that's probably getting used negatively in recruiting down the line. But, and this is going to sound like I'm defending the booors, I'm not. But I do think that it's important to understand the the mentality that has led to that particular situation.
And I think about this. You're in the midst of getting blown out in the first half by Nebraska, Which Nebraska's a better team than Indiana right now, but it's Nebraska. It's you're on your route to losing your third home game in a row, and the three home games that you're losing in a row are Penn State, Northwestern and Nebraska and the average IU fan. Not even like the Super fans. Just the average IU fans.
Like, you know, that does not feel like the milieu that we should be losing to that, that is, that is like, if I were to name the worst brands of basketball in the Big 10, those would probably be the first three names that you brought up. Maybe you'd throw in Minnesota, but that's, that's, that's the that's the bottom. So the frustration, I think fans feel, it kind of tracks with what we've talked about up to this point. It's like the same thing keeps
happening, but it's worse. The effort looks awful.
The the system doesn't look like it works and you're playing a team that should be worse than you in your mind, as a fan who is hitting shots all over the floor and is playing pretty free, playing with a level of cohesion and there is no outlet not, you know, most people don't have podcasts where they can talk through these things publicly and have other people listen and and fans at this point, you know, we've talked about this on this podcast a few times.
You've had this building resentment for like why is Indiana basketball not better? Like you know we're we're paying premium prices for tickets and we're paying you know we're we're told all the time this is a historic program. You've got the banners. You've got all the championships in the Big 10. Why is this constantly what's being put in front of us And it it doesn't excuse the booing.
But I think you know when you look at when this sort of thing happens it's almost always a break point for the fans and it's really hard to come back from and whether you know not sanctioning the booing but reacting to it. I've all, I can only remember it really happening twice.
It happened a bit at the end of Queen's time that last year when then that February and March kind of spiraled out of control in 2017 and it happened obviously at the Big 10 tournament in 2021 and that almost directly led to Archie Miller getting fired. This is a fan base that when when they're pushed to this level in terms of what's put in front of them and what they see and they they feel compelled to do that kind of organically like nobody organized them before.
The game is a guys we got to Boo today. We're going to Boo our own players with the free throw line like that is a real concern and and and I do wonder having seen that like what's the route back from that for this program and for Mike Woodson. We know what Whatever you feel about Mike Woodson's future, what is the route back from getting booed off the floor in Assembly Hall? It's it's kind of what I noted yesterday.
I I, I really do think it's too far gone like it that's that's really, really hard to come back from and and I'm with you. I think the booing's silly but I'm also with you in terms of I don't think the mentality of those folks is is hey, let's Boo the players, 'cause we, you know, we hate them or they suck or whatever the case may be. It's more so like I'm sick of this crap Boo. Like I'm I'm over this.
Like you know it's it's just the the way that they're they're getting out their emotions of like I'm over this. Like whatever this is as I wave my hands violently in the camera here, whatever this is, is not working and I'm going to let you know that I don't like watching this. And so that's that's I think the mentality of where those booze are coming from. I don't like it.
Again like you said that's a negative recruiting you know immediately like that that's going to be you know any player you're fighting for. Which leads me to the future of this is you know that's that's hard to recruit against. The 2025 class in the state of Indiana is the cream of the crop best class in at least a decade and there are a lot of kids that wants to go to IU like they they do.
I I've got pretty good Intel on some of these guys they want to go to IU. However, they're they're really struggling to pull the trigger when it comes to this product. Well, here's the thing. You know, people are like, well, you know, they're 2025, they're committing before Indiana probably plays another game in the 202425 season, like the 25 class commits in the fall of 24. And so this is kind of it.
Like these last couple months here are are the last or last couple weeks or the last time they can actually see your team play before they're making decisions. Now listen, relationships and things matter and recruiting for sure. But like Indiana's not going to play another game before these things happen. So you keep this same regime. This is what they're working against. Like there's there's a lot they're working against now. They've got nil and those things
that do work in their favor. But you know, if if my kid was a top player right now being recruited by Iowa Perdue, I think I would really struggle to send them to the situation in Indiana right now. And that that's why I I have deep concern about the future of the program under this regime.
Yeah, that's that's kind of the overarching point I think is you know I mean as fans we talk about these things or we talk about them on the podcast, but the perceptions matter to people who aren't fans and that's the thing I keep coming back to. And and it's it's really ruled a lot of my thoughts about like OK, well Indiana's they've only got 1 recruit, they're going to
have to go into transfer portal. And I just, I keep coming back to this idea like if you are a a high level guard and you're in the transfer portal and you're looking at places to go. Unless you have a dynamite relationship or really feel like a a positive vibe with Woodson or the coaching staff. I'm not sure what you would look at this season or last season for large stretches of it and say that's the situation that I want to put myself in, that's where I want to go.
That's going to get me where I want to get to as a basketball player. And certainly, I mean there's there's other considerations and Indiana's going to be in a lot of those conversations because of the nil money that they have at their disposal. But as we've seen, we saw it with Dalton Connect, we saw it with some other folks last year. The money isn't everything. The the, the situation matters.
We're seeing it in football. It's like, you know, people were trying to transfer out of IU football. The situation changes, new coaching staff comes in, they have a different vision. People are trying to come back. Some of them didn't get allowed to come back.
You know it really does matter what is like what people see can they envision themselves in it and what the coaching staff says and whether you believe that what they're saying actually matches with the reality and and man it it does not look great. And again we might be sitting here a month and a half, two months from now and being like wow, we were really overly concerned about that for no reason because look at this hall
that Indiana got in the portal. But it doesn't feel like that's the trend that things are going in and and when you when you're playing bad enough as a team that your home fans who are pretty respectful, always very supportive. I mean you saw that huge support Indiana had last night in the women's game against Iowa when they feel compelled to Boo multiple times throughout the course of the game.
You know that that is a, that is a, that is a thermometer and and when you know the thermometer gets to that. It's running hot. It's running hot. When you get to that level it's like that's that's that's a problem. I don't I don't know what the what the like how you parse that within the confines of the
trajectory of the program. And you know, what's frightening to me is that Indiana's got two more home games this season And those home games, I I think it's, you know, it should be noted because it it matters very much in the context of this particular statement. They're at home versus Wisconsin. Who? Tony, Indiana does not have a great history recently.
And by recently, I mean the last 20 years playing against Wisconsin. And then they got to finish the season with Senior Day at home against Michigan State, who despite their record, is one of the best 20 teams in the country. That is a recipe for abject disaster on a public national stage. And that really, really concerns me. Yeah, I think that game's on CBS. Yeah, that's. Great. That's exactly what we needed, yes. Yeah, And it's everything we talked about.
And then it's even looking forward, let's say, OK, you bring Mike Woodson back. I think everybody would agree if you bring Mike Woodson back his seat on fire next year, well, looking at expectations next year, what's what's he got to do next year to keep his job, you know, because then you're looking at he's only got 2-3 years left on his contract.
He got to extend them because you don't want a coach that has less than four years on their contract, typically because players that come to the program want to know that the coach has stability and longevity and all that. So like, even as I look forward, I'm like, are you just kicking the can down the road here because his seats coming on fire, every little thing is going to be under a microscope
next season. And those Bluebirds, you know, if you're struggling against a Florida Gulf Coast in game one, they may come out like happened this year. And so it's like, I think you, I think you could set yourself up for a really, really, really, really toxic situation. And then apathy, which is the worst thing that could happen to
a program. And the administration knows that, you know, if you're the stands already aren't full, you know, we're at the Penn State game, the balcony was pretty much completely empty, you know, So it's already starting to happen a bit. And the worse you get, the more that apathy sets in. And then you know the 8000 people or whatever, they're there that do care. The boos just get real loud and concentrated and it's just it
could be bad. Well, and I just, I mean this is where and this is where their collateral damage comes in because it ends up being the players. I mean, Trey Galloway is getting asked about getting booed on his home floor in in the post game press conference against Nebraska and and again, it's like IU fans shouldn't Boo at home. But the fact that they felt compelled to Boo it, it just it's a really bad situation.
And I do worry about the trajectory because unless this team finds a gear this year that we have not seen, it just feels like it's going to regress even more as we get through these last few weeks of the season. And maybe we'll be wrong about that. But just observationally speaking, it is very much a concern as far as how things are going, how people are already reacting and the road moving forward here as we get into the end of February and into March.
Yeah, and and don't forget too, that, like, these players can also transfer out. Right. They're not on four year contracts like they're they they they have movement as well, absolutely. And so you know that you you and also there's things happening back channels already with these players camps. You know I I am positive there are very good players in IU right now that their camps are being talked to by other universities. Be like you like that situation
man. Like come play for us you got an opportunity here because it's it's really easy for one player to go find a good situation. It's really hard for a bunch of players to come in and then make that a good situation and and so that's what I would also tell fans be cognizant of is like there will be attrition out just as there is in and you know we it's something we'll have to deal with. Well, on that uplifting note, we'll go ahead and close up
shop. No, it's man, I as I've said a lot the last couple of months I'd love just a a a a non complicated season from IU men's basketball, like just one where they they play basketball they they if they were great, awesome. If they're just good, fine. You know just just a season where it felt like there was like a slow but steady positive trajectory. That is not what we've gotten so far this year and and man it's hard, it's hard to talk about it's hard.
This is, this is we've been here a few times and again it's like the end of Queen's era was kind of like this where you're like, I don't know what I'm going to say about this team that hasn't already been said that hasn't. You know, that doesn't feel like piling on but also acknowledges the reality of the situation where it's like stuff's not getting made-up like this is. If anything we might be underselling some of the problems and issues with IU right now.
And we're doing so out of almost like an overabundance of concern that we not come across as like complete you know negative people about IU basketball, right? It's it's a it's just it's hard to get your head wrapped around. And I I just it's sad for the players.
It's it's it's sad for the coaching staff but for a program that that supposedly has this level the standard of itself to watch it be so far away from that right now after again two seasons that were fine but would be average seasons if you shuffled up the deck of IU basketball seasons is is really hard to to process and talk about with you know and feel good about I guess. It's not fun, that's for sure.
You know, like we we don't take joy in in you know a 55 minute recording here kind of talking about all the negative aspects of Indiana. We would much rather be doing the opposite and I think that's important to to know is like the negativity is is not fun. You know we don't want these things. It's not good for the podcast, for apathy to set in for, for folks like these aren't things you want to do, but I think it's they're important things to
discuss as well. Believe it or not, the numbers go down when IU is not playing well. We would prefer IU to be good all the time. It does not. I the the people that are in your mentions like, well, you're just an engagement troll or whatever. It's like Tony would love to talk about a great basketball programmer. His number I'd love. To show you all the XS and OS
and all the good. Stuff they're doing, the the numbers would be Immaculate, but they're not right now, and neither are the Vibes. So anyway, Tony Adrania, check them out on on on X, check them out on The Film Room. Subscribe to the Assembly Call Sub Stack. You'll see his stuff there as well. And Tony, I appreciate you taking the time this morning to chat. Always a pleasure 13 years running here. It's, you know, a match made in heaven. Without question. Anyway, for Tony. I'm Galen.
Thanks for joining us here on Crimson Cast. We'll be back post Penn State. We'll talk about what happened there. And we got AI. Still have that football podcast coming. It's half recorded. The rest of it will be done here relatively soon anyway. We'll catch you folks soon. Thanks to our presenting sponsor, Home Field Apparel. Catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the Bison. That's all everybody.