Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Women's Basketball Podcast. It's been a while since we've talked to you guys. Amanda and I took the week off last week just due to our schedules, but we're not back with one of the biggest episodes of the season. Obviously a big game on Monday, but an even bigger one on Thursday. Coming up to tomorrow, you know the Iowa game, I Amanda, so it's a very big the Iowa game, it's the Iowa game, huge implications for IU moving forward.
But as always, I mean, it's been a while since since we've talked to our lovely fans. How are you doing? What's new in life? Yeah, I'm. I'm doing well. Like you said we took the week off last week because we had the pleasure of going up to Indy and working covering the NBA All Star game as part of our class with Mike Wells. Shout out Mike, if you're listening, you're not because you don't listen to podcast, but if you are for some reason, you know, thank you.
But no, that was it was super great. I'm doing well. I'm a little bit sick, so apologies if you know anything gets picked up or I have to clear my throat. It's going to happen. But no, it's it's a beautiful day out. It's a Wednesday. Wednesdays are good days in general and a really, really exciting game coming up tomorrow that everybody has been like counting down the days for since they announced the date that it was happening in the fall.
So. So it's a huge day tomorrow, but it's also a big day here for us. Because ladies and gentlemen making his Crimson Cast debut, please give a warm welcome. One of the best media school students and one of the finest basketball minds in all of the land from Indianapolis IN. The one, the only the notorious Zion. ZB Brown, How are How are you? I feel? Like I should have been like running out of the corner or something. For this introduction, that was my. Surprise to you.
That was my surprise. That was my surprise. Hey, man, I appreciate. It if you get an intro like that. Well, you're my partner. I'll I'll get you next week, don't worry. You know, you know where your, like, friends come over and your and your mom like turned into a completely different person. That's Kevin right now. Shout out to Bruce Buffer for for the inspiration. I wanted to give you a nice little introduction, but yeah, Zion Browns.
On the podcast with us today, Zion is junior, like I said from Indianapolis IN. Writer for the indie star. Also Co sports director over at WIOX. So, yeah, Welcome, Zion. It's good to have you. It's great to be on, you know. You know, I thought it would never happen because of Amanda over here shutting down my dreams and hopes and aspirations, but. I didn't. For the record, that has not ever once happened, but. I'm glad to be here though.
Yeah, yeah, we obviously, I said one of the finest basketball minds in all of the land. And I truly mean that Zion is, is a great basketball mind. And I mean, he's here to help us sort of breakdown what happened at Illinois. So let's, you know, get right into it. It was, to put it bluntly, just a bad loss for Indiana. They suffered their fourth loss of the season Monday afternoon, 86 to 66 to the Illini. It was just a tough game, tough
game. Indiana had the lead with 19 seconds remaining in the first quarter, but then Illinois got it back and never looked back. They go on and get the 20 point win it snaps. A16 game win streak for Indiana over Illinois and for Illinois it's the biggest margin of victory over a ranked opponent since 1998.
A very big win for them considering where they're at in the season just battling 500 and big win or I should say a big loss for Indiana just because of the implications of where we are currently in the standings and and where the season is going. Look, I mean, to be honest, Indiana looks disconnected on every level. So, yeah, I mean, I'll start off with this Zion, we talked about it before, before today. It's just, I mean, Illinois ability to go to the basket was
just the key to this game. It it sure was. Indiana had no answer at the point of attack for for whatever
Illinois had coming downhill. And mainly it was Makara Cook, who is one of the more underrated players in the Big 10. She had another big game against the Hoovers, 22 points this go round and whether it was her getting all the way to the Cup and finishing, whether it's dropping it off to a big big or whether it was getting to the free throw line, which Illinois had 24 free throw attempts in that game, she just could not be stopped. She had none of those free throw attempts.
She couldn't be stopped and the Hoosiers just were not able to to halt the penetration, whether that was from the big or or up top and and that's the big reason why Illinois won this one handily. Yeah, Terry talked about it after the game. And I'll go to you, Amanda. It's just something that we we've talked about and I think this was the biggest point is point of separation in the game is Mackenzie did not look great defensively in this one.
She just got a lot of the times beat and Terry talked about it, how there was really no protection at the rim. And I mean I mean from I mean Zion just told us what he saw. What did you see in the loss? There was a lot of frustration all around and you could tell almost from the beginning. Not I don't. Not quite. Because in the beginning it seemed like Mackenzie especially
was being was. She was able to get around Illinois until they adjusted to her a little bit more, but as the game went on, it was one of those games that doesn't really happen a lot for Indiana where you can see on their faces how upset they are and how frustrated they are. And you can see it from Terry Moran and you can see it from the bench, just whether it was the the foul calls and the refereeing, because that obviously played a part in the
the emotions of the game. At least a little bit. You could see towards the end how Mackenzie Holmes would get, would get frustrated about some of the foul calls and whatnot, but it was something about the when Illinois has played Indiana this year piece both times and you talked about Mackayra Cook being undergraded and I've been kind of on Illinois. We talked about this last time they played in the preseason. They were expected to be really good and both, both at the beginning. Of the.
Year both times that Illinois has played Indiana, we've seen that team that people have expected to see something about. Indiana brings it out in a way. You know, when you have players like Mackayra Cook coming out and playing some of their best basketball and so that was another thing. It was like there there was something about it and you know, they were at home and I don't want to. It was a Monday, 2:00 PM tip. So it's not like the crowd would have been like a fantastic environment.
But that that's another thing to consider. It was just it was a like you said it was a disjointed game kind of all around. And there was not, I don't know, they never really rallied when they have in the past. And that, you know, you go down by, you lose by 20 points, you're you're missing something. And unfortunately, you know, they they were missing a lot in that game.
Yeah, I just wanted to jump in and and say like, I think the reason Illinois kind of comes into the game and to this game and even the one earlier in January or it was New Year's Eve rather with the mentality that can that they can beat Indiana is not because I don't think this team necessarily. Maybe they do, I don't know, maybe I don't think they think they're better than Indiana is. But I think they look at it and they say you cannot guard us in the way that we play.
And so you know you have those games where you know this Illinois team, they may not think that against Ohio State or or Iowa or any of the other Big 10, you know, teams that are have better records than them. But they look at Indiana and they say they really just cannot stop us getting to the pain and and getting to the center of the lane.
And so you come in with that conference, they've they've played two close games with IU, one innocently Hall last year, one this year where they've been able to say OK, we were there near the end and then they come in this one and they just blow Indiana way starting with the 2nd.
Quarter, right. Well, Indiana has a specific way of playing on both ends of the floor and when you have a team like Illinois who can adjust to that and learn from it and and improve, then that's that's something that Indiana's going to struggle to to go up against. The thing with me is it just looked like from the beginning really it just never looked like it was Indiana's day. They they they had to find
couple first minutes, right. It wasn't necessarily from the start, but just, I mean from the first quarter you could tell Indiana wasn't wasn't there completely and you know, Mackenzie didn't have the greatest performance. Defensively, I would say Chloe Moore. McNeil was also taken out of the game. She's been on a hot streak the past what, 5-6, seven games. But this is the first game in a while where she hasn't really been as much of a factor as Indiana would like.
She had seven points, right, but she just wasn't necessarily all there. And the guard, I think the guard play was also, I mean we talk about the attacking the rim for Illinois, but also it's just they, the guard play for Illinois was a lot better, right? And I didn't see this until after the game. But Austin render the voice of Indiana women's basketball. He does like, I think it's called Austin's analysis before every game. But that was what he touched on.
He he touched on just the guards being the biggest factor in this game. So I look. I mean, it was, it was, it was one of those games where it was such a weird game to watch, because not only was it a rare loss, but it was a lot of rare mistakes by Indiana. There was a lot of times where they turned over the ball just whether on fouls or they just like they the the passes weren't there. They were turning over the ball with offensive fouls, defensive fouls.
They were just disconnected, to put it simply. Yeah, and to me on offense, when you look at this Indiana team and the issue in this game, you go 6 or 20 from three and I I tweeted about this a little bit after the game.
But this is AIU team that is first in the country in effective field goal percentage and a lot of that is because they take a lot of threes pretty much, pretty much this year for Indiana, their shots are coming from three or they've been Mackenzie Holmes who's over 60% just right at the hoop. The issue with that is when you take away the mid range, the
margin of error just disappears. Basically if if you're not making those threes it disappears and and that's where you know Grace Berger was so important the last few years but Indiana doesn't have any player that can go into the mid range and create those shots. You know they're they're playing this style of basketball that the analytics people champion and and I get it it is the most efficient way to play but when the cookie crumbles and you just need a basket it gets tough.
It gets you know it, it gets scary because you don't have that person you can say just knock down a 12 footer for us, go just get a a 1518 footer shot for us and and get that to go.
And so that's the that's the problem with this Indiana team when it comes to games like this and you know, these big games where they get behind or they just need to stop a run, is that they can't do. That to your point, I think this is the biggest game where we have seen sort of the absence of Grace Burger. This was the game where you kind of watch and you're like Dang well OK this is where this is where Grace shined the past couple years.
Not, I mean look she's a professional she, I mean there's very few players in the country that lived in the in the mid range area like the way that she did when she played. But yeah, I mean I 100% agree with that too. I mean you're just playing either on the outside or right under the basket which can work and has worked. Look, let's not just spread to Indiana here. I mean, it's only their fourth loss of the season.
But. Still, they just looked very, very exposed on Monday. And it's not like you need Grace Berger. You just need somebody. It. Doesn't have to be. A WBA level. Player You need somebody to just make shots more consistently than they have been because we've seen it from people that like, you know, they can shoot the mid range, but they can't do it efficiently enough for it to be a reliable way of scoring. Well and the thing about the mid range is you have to to get there.
You have to create a shots exactly. And nobody on this team, you know you see that occasionally from Colleen Moore, McNeil but but nobody on this team can really just consistently I'm going to you know have a tight ball handle get to my spot and. Fire, right? Yeah. And and it's it's just frustrating because I don't know I felt like Terry was I I hadn't seen Terry as disappointed in a while right And and it's just there was a clear disappointment.
Well, you can stomach losses to ranked teams, but you get this one is a lot harder to kind of process. Just from a the wide perspective of like this is an unranked team in the middle of the big time. You're in, you're the number 14 team in the country and you just got beat and you got beat pretty bad. And I I hate to get like, to say this as if there's not plenty of season left to play this year.
But this was maybe one of the first moments, the first games where I was watching the middle of this game. And I just thought to myself, like, what is this supposed to look like next next year? You know, it's like. There was a lot of time for that. Who are you supposed to turn to? Like what's the goal? What's the plan going forward? Obviously there's still so much left to be decided in the 2024 season, but I just, that was just something in the back of my head as I was watching the
Illinois game. Like, I don't. I don't really know what there's still what there is to look forward to that that is currently on the roster now. I want to also bring up a point, the rebounds. Look, I I, I understand rebounding numbers are are not always the best indicators of how the game went. And I, I know coaches really don't like that when you ask about, you know, rebounding, especially after the game.
But Illinois, I rebounded Indiana by 4:30 to 26, but there was just times in the game where I was like nobody's following the ball off the basket, off the off the glass. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier, just I think the post play for Indiana in this game was a little worrisome, just moving ahead. Look, Lily Meister is only a sophomore and she's a player that they're trying to develop. And so somebody like Mackenzie Holmes potentially, right?
I mean, she's her own player, but like when you're playing against a player, an all American at the same position or you're playing with a player like that, you're going to obviously pick up a few things from her. But I mean, Lily and Mackenzie just looked. They just were two or three steps behind throughout the entire day and rebounding was Shawna Green touched on it after how happy she was for how her team did on the glass. And I I it's just I was a little bit shocked with the way this
game played out. Again, it was a it was a game that I it was just rare for Indiana to lose in this type of fashion. But I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, well, and disappointing too, because, you know, the one of the bigger pieces of news going into it at least was that Sydney Parish was going to be back and that, you know, nobody knew where she was at
necessarily. And I think we kind of saw that maybe this wasn't the game to bring her back for because she didn't really look on top of it a lot of the times. And there was, I think some there was, I noticed miscommunication or like lack of adjustment, just she was wide open on the perimeter calling for the ball and nobody was like, look, I remember I think Yarden had the ball and Sydney was calling for it on the perimeter.
She was wide open and there was just no pass there because I Yarden didn't realize that she was there or something like that. And so it was. Because for the last few weeks, that's been Lexus bargain. So you're like. I'm not passing. For the ball in the corner. Yeah, right, exactly. And so that I noticed that kind of that stood out as another thing that was like, OK, this is just another thing that's not really going right for them right now.
And this, this is something that they're going to need to figure out. Like immediately, if you're going to have Sydney Parish back against Iowa, she's going to need to be a whole lot more productive than she was against Illinois. Thank you for bringing that up because I I forgot to put it. You're welcome in the sheet. But I was also curious just to see how much she was playing. She only played six minutes throughout the game and it was clear that that they wanted to feel it out with her.
See how she responded when she touched the court again. But like you said, she just didn't not necessarily look ready and and that leaves a big question mark for tomorrow night, right? Like, what do you do with her? Do you push the limit in arguably a must win game or do you again just see how she responds? I don't know. I mean, that's a conversation that they're having right now probably, but.
You you have to think about the Big 10 tournament and the NCAA tournament and like everything like that because like by no means is Indiana out of anything. And so that like you said, you know how much do you push her and how much do you, I guess for lack of a better term, save her for for post season play or for a little bit further down the
road. Because like you, the worst thing that would happen, what you absolutely don't want to happen is that she goes out and she plays really hard against Iowa and then she re aggravates something or she gets hurt again and then you're out and like you're you're down one of your starters again and then you probably even in a worse situation than you were beforehand. So it's there's a lot to consider that I'm glad I don't have to think about, honestly, because that's a lot.
I don't. I don't know where Sydney Parish is kind of like percentage wise or what percentage she's at, but this does remind me of Mackenzie Holmes two seasons ago when she she banged up her knee in in late January, early February. I don't know the exact dates, but then she came back and and she, you know, she was fine. She's still a great player, but you could tell it's just like this is not 100% Mackenzie Holmes. But she's just.
But they need her. But yeah, she's out there going through it and and that's that's what this reminds me of. As of right now, I don't know if Sydney Paris will recover to 100% by the time this season ends, but it doesn't feel like that's where this is going, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I think, I mean, we'll see you come Thursday. But I mean, what would you guys do? I mean, I, I, I, I I don't know. They say like the. The reason I ask that is because after this loss Iowa is a must
win. I think tomorrow, tomorrow I was if you. Want to host in the. Tournament, you guys just about to bring that up that because of the loss they're now outside. I mean, they're projected to finish a fifth seed, which means that they won't be hosting. And right now if they were to stay at that fifth seed, they would be going to Syracuse and playing over there. So look, I think you got to be Iowa at least once, right?
If you're not, if you don't do it Thursday, tomorrow night, you do it in the tournament, in the Big 10 tournament. If you match up against them or if you go on and and play in the tournament championship, I I just don't know. But yeah, I mean Sidney's pair, Sidney's injury is something that that really, really as I didn't think it was going to be. Obviously it's big when you lose a starter, but I didn't think it would impact the team in the way that it has, right?
It it's impacted the line up a lot more than I think even again, I don't want to speak for anybody on the team, but I think that a lot of people even on the team sort of didn't realize. Yeah, and I don't know if people knew then. This is kind of just speculation on my end, but I don't know if anybody really knew how long she was going to be out for. Yeah, when it first happened, I feel like it was not there.
There was a level of uncertainty that there was like, OK, well, we just wait a few weeks and she'll come back and she'll be fine or something like that. Like it wasn't like a an earth shattering, like, Oh my gosh, we don't have Sydney Paris, sorry. And we won't have her for like a month and 1/2 or whatever it is,
you know? And so I think that has also played a part in it is like the mental aspect of just like here's another game where we're not going to have somebody to rely on and we have to figure it out.
And that's hard. That takes a toll on everybody in the program to to lose somebody like that and for everybody else to know that they have to step up consistently and not knowing when they're going to be able to kind of go back to what they were doing because they were, they were very successful when Sydney was playing, obviously. And so to to not have any sort of certainty if that was the case for them is I can imagine it takes a toll on everybody. Yeah, to me it's just very concerning.
The fact that basically even even with sidneye injury that the team has no faith or the coach. Dad doesn't seem to have any real trust in their young players. That you know, you you're looking at this box score and you know, Lily Meister played 9 minutes because obviously she played the 9 minutes that Mackenzie Holmes wasn't in the game. But then nobody else played more than six off the bench.
And you know, it's hard to have a team and say, especially when you know, you're going through a long, grueling season, we only have six players that we actually trusted. I mean, Kevin, I know you're a Kansas men's basketball fan and that's been their big day. They have like 4, right? It's it's so like, I mean, you know, so like it's like you you need a good at least seven, you know, ideally maybe like 9 that
you can actually trust in that. You know, any given game, if something goes, you know, a certain way, they can play 15 or 20 minutes or more. And this team just does not have that at all. If you go back to the 2122. Season, so you said two years ago? Yeah, two years ago, where they were two years ago. That's why they lost. I mean it was, it was a veteran team, a team that had a lot of leadership.
I mean, Nicole Cardano, Hillary Alexis School Bay, Allie Patberg, Grace, obviously and then Mackenzie. I mean, there was a team that was very well built only through the starting five. If you go off of it, they didn't really have anybody and that's the reason why they lost to UConn. That's sort of the reason why
their season ended. And to be quite honest, that's kind of been one of the few points of criticism for Terry Morin's teams this past couple years that she just hasn't built been able to build a team that has 8-9 players that can actually see the floor and be productive at any given moment, right. It's usually just been the
starting 5 and that's it, yeah. Well, and the hopes were high, I think this season and even last season, because she was talking about how she was more confident in her younger players and at the beginning of the season she seemed more confident in them by
a long shot. And it's just as the season has progressed and as the team has kind of grown into itself this year, it's it's becoming clearer that you can't really rely on the younger players to to play the kind of basketball that unfortunately I think they need to be playing. You know Kevin, Kevin and we've talked about this when you bring in Lily Meister to for Mackenzie Holmes who puts up 20 plus points in pretty much every single game.
You need more than two points in eight minutes from from somebody like Lily. Like you need her on defense and she's she's grown up a lot on defense. But you you need that scoring to come off your bench and that's something that Indiana really just doesn't have. And they can't really rely on their bench players to score, it seems like. Yeah, and look it it's it's weird though because like you look at this, you you look at
the bench, right? And you have two freshmen, Julianna Lamendol and Lenae Beaumont. And then you have Lily Meister, who who had a productive freshman season, especially towards the end of the year. For a freshman coming. For a freshman, exactly. But then it's just it's again, it's just there's no, there's not a lot of depth to this team. I mean, Lily Meister can only do so much, but she also, I mean like you touched on it, she only gave you two points in 9 minutes.
But also you're playing your your first option on the bench is only playing 9 minutes. Yeah, that. I mean, what does that, what does that tell you? And by the way, I think we talked about McKenzie Holmes's injuries. I think if McKenzie Holmes is someone who just had been healthy her whole college career, she's not Newly meister's not even playing 9 minutes because Mackenzie Holmes would be playing 35 minutes like the rest of the starting lineup does.
The only reason she does it is because they are preserving her and her knee, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, that's a great point. It's just and. And here's The thing is is OK. I mean, what is it today, February 21st? It gets you through at least a good portion of the season, right? But when it comes to tournament time, when it comes to post season play, that's one of the biggest flaws. I mean, when you look at national champions, men's, women's, basketball, it doesn't matter.
It has to be a team that you can trust. The 8th man, you know what I mean? Because there's always going to be just one game, you know if you're talking about making a deep run where you just or do you just need that from somebody you're not expecting. And and right now Indiana is just you know which six players and really which five until we really see Sydney Paris fully back integrated. You know which five players you know you're you're scheming against, basically on the other
side. Yeah, and not only that, and and this is not a shot at LEXIS Bargester at all, but she's, she's other starting five, but she's not really a scorer. I mean, you can't trust her to score the basket. I mean, she's there to dig, to direct traffic and pass the ball around. But she's not going to give you. I mean, she gave you six points against Illinois, but really, I mean she'll give you what? I don't know what she's averaging, but she'll give you 4 Max on any given night.
So I mean, you only really have four players on the floor that can give you 10 plus points. I mean, it's not a recipe for success. But anyway, so Indiana loses 86 to 66, their fourth loss of their season. Really tough one, really tough loss all. It's going to have huge implications throughout the rest of the season. But now on to the biggest game
of the year. Obviously everybody's been talking about it, everybody's been marking down the days on their calendar, but it's Iowa week tomorrow. The hot guys coming to Assembly Hall obviously. Last time the hot guys play the game, it was against Michigan when Caitlin Clark took over the all time scoring record and also recorded a career high 49 points. Last time the teams met, obviously, was in Iowa City when they lost. When Indiana lost 84 to 57 on
January 13th. Amanda, we were all actually, we were all going to go. But yeah, it's just the weather. Bad weekend. Mother Nature. Mother Nature did not allow it. But I know it's going to be, what, 55° here? Yeah, it's going to be nice. So, but yeah, look, obviously one of the biggest games of the year and now even more so with the the Illinois loss. But I guess, I mean what should we expect from Indiana? What? I mean, it's difficult because you're coming off a very hard loss.
You were kind of hoping that Sydney Parish would be back for this one. Well, she's probably going to play a little bit, but she's going to be very limited unless something crazy happened in these past couple days. But Indiana right now, I know. I know. We usually save this Amanda for after we talk about the game. But if you ask me who I think wins tomorrow, I think it's Iowa. I agree I plain and simple straight. Into the picks. Yeah, we don't usually do this, but this is we're going a
different route. I I would lean towards Iowa as well as Iowa. Unfortunately, that's kind of like the basis for my for my reasoning. But we we know what Iowa is capable of and we saw what they were capable of when they played Indiana last time. Not just Caitlin Clark, but everybody else. Molly Davis had a great game. Kate Martin had a great game. You know, people they're, I was stagged. I was really, really good. And they're the kind of team that I think kind of similar to Indiana.
They feed off of each other. But The thing is, is that they really, they always have Caitlin Clark to feed off of, whereas Indiana sometimes doesn't have that one person but you they like. That is that is a team who has a leader on and off the court who is going to give you a spark every single game in some fashion, like in some fashion or in every way. And so I think you know, you you think about them coming in to Assembly Hall into what is essentially going to be a sell out.
I think is if it's not officially a sell out, that's what the general consensus is. It's going to be probably the best crowd of the season. People are going to be into it because there's a it's a rivalry and people don't like Iowa, people don't like Caitlin Clark. So that it's going to be a, it's going to be a tough crowd. And so in some ways, you know, that would sway it in favor of Indiana. But I was no stranger to playing in front of these kind of
crowds. And because I've done it before and they've, they've come away with the win against whatever team they're playing. And I think when you have somebody like Caitlin Clark to feed off of so consistently, who loves playing in those big environments and knowing where Indiana is at in their season and knowing the differences in the mentalities of these teams is it's really hard to say that Indiana's going to be able to pull this one out for me.
Yeah it's just it's just I don't know I I think a lot of things internally have to change in order to to get this win. I mean the last game against Iowa was it was not pretty at all. It was. It was. It's weird because the four losses that they've had have kind of been pretty similar. Just blow out losses 20 points plus where the post players got speed up and Indiana got speed up as a whole and and whatnot.
But I mean look, if you look at the numbers, last time these two teams met, Caitlin Clark had 30 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 20 for 21 from the field and then six for 16 from three. Typical performance from Caitlin Clark. Which is crazy to say, You know, did she? Start like was it like over five or something for three, I remember. She's over 5 or over six. She's. Gonna buy a three in the first quarter and then like somewhere in the middle of the second
quarter she just couldn't. She just slipped. Yeah. And which? Is that always happens? Yeah, and it it's it, it was another game where the guard play wasn't necessarily there for Indiana. You needed more production from your guards and it was a tough one for Sarah Scalia and yarding Arizona. Also, we talked about it how Indiana's typically a very good 3 point shooting team, but they
only shot 5 for 20 in that game. From deep it it it was just a game that really Indiana never found its footing. Indiana never really got into a groove. And again, that's kind of been the theme in the four losses. You know it's crazy to talk about the team in the way that we are considering they're only four losses in, but it's just with Iowa and especially Ohio State this year credit to them they're they've you know turned it up a lot lately.
You you have to play near perfect and now because of the Illinois loss you're you're you're getting pinned up in a corner and and time is running out. There's only three games left. Well and it it's not to say that Indiana can't bounce back from bad losses because they have every single time they've they've lost those other three games. But they weren't going out and playing a team like Iowa right after that.
And so in like in theory like the way that I, I look at it, You know, I don't want to say that Indiana's not going to be able to to come back and and regroup after the Illinois loss because I I fully believe that they will. But I don't know if they're going to be able to do it fully enough for Thursday to to be able to come out and and get a win in the way that they have come out and gotten big wins after big losses because it's Iowa.
Yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's a really a really good way to put it. I mean, it's just Iowa. I mean, it's Iowa, been one of the top teams for the past couple years and and you know, it's when you have the best player in the country on your team, right? You're always going to be favored in some sort of way, right? But Zion, I wanted to ask you sort of a technical question about just Caitlin Clark. And I mean, what makes her so good? What allows her to be such an
effective player? I mean, she's averaging 30 plus points a game. I mean, we've never seen a player like this really in college basketball as a whole. But I mean, in your eyes, I guess, what is it about her style of play that allows her to be so such an impactful player? I think everybody focuses on the shooting, and rightfully so, but when I watch her, she is one of the fastest players with the ball in her hands that I've ever seen. Like I think without the ball in her hands you get.
You put her in a race and there's a decent amount of players that could beat her, but actually functionally dribbling the ball and and moving as quickly as she does it, it's ridiculous. I don't know how she does it because she she and I know part of it is her, her how long she is. She's 61, I think 6 feet, 6-1 maybe. So that's taller than than your average point guard especially in college basketball and and
she just gets downhill. And so the fact that she could do that and then the fact that she could just step back on you or or shoot a three just right in front of you whenever you know it, it is you know just something we we don't really see a lot. And so I think that's what makes her so special. And that's what the challenge is, is figuring out, oh, and then by the way, she's just the best passer in college basketball. Yeah, it's. Like by the way, it's.
Just like very a very complete player, especially when you talk about with the ball in her hands. So, I mean, I just, it's all of those things combined, but the the ball handle and the way that she gets to the rim is just really special. Her court awareness and her ability to see pathways, whether it's for herself or for her teammates, if she's able to get them the ball is astounding sometimes. You know, you watch it on TV and you're like, I never would have seen that ever.
But you found it and nobody else, nobody else on the courts side. And that's that's like the crazy part is that she just sees these things that she makes it happen and nobody can do anything about it. And that's, again, where being 6 feet tall helps her as well. Because, you know, there's a lot of really good point guards that that may see the same things Caitlyn Clark sees. But if you're 5/8, those are hard. I'm speaking from experience here.
Those are those are hard passes your entire life playing basketball. There's been so many times in my life where I feel like I see you in that corner. I can't get it there because I'm small. You know, when you're taller than the people in front of you, it's a much easier pass to make. Yeah, I think also, and I know this is very well known just because of the crazy shots she makes, but it's also the range that that Caitlyn Clark has is
is astounding. I sit there and watch or make some of the deep shots and I'm like just how, Yeah, it it's with ease, just the ability. She also has one of the quickest releases in all of basketball, which is obviously another thing that you know for you to get off your shot in a matter of seconds. I don't know how I think Fox Sports actually had like a graphic or they did some sort of demonstration in one of I'm sure in one of the in one of the
games, in one of the games. And I I don't remember. I don't want to throw out how long it takes for her to get our shot off, but it's extremely quick and and so that's another thing. And look, I mean, we can keep talking about her because she's, you know, the greatest. Player and just as a sign. Now I know multiple Indiana Fever people will be there tomorrow. I I've been working to get names. I've not received the actual names.
I would assume that the GM when done and the head coach Chrissy Sides will be there, but I'm also curious to see if any players will show up with those two and if the president of the team, Allison Barber, who never really comes to college games. But I I have a feeling Allison Barber herself may be there too. So. This would be the game. It's a it'll be a a big game and and we'll know if they're there.
We know we saw them. I could buy you games last year too, when they were scouting out Grace Burger. So yeah, expect to see them sitting on the courtside well. The Here before you go, Amanda. Sorry. But I mean, that's a good point. Just because. I mean, in a year from now, more than likely she's going to be wearing an Indiana fever jersey. So.
But Amanda? So I found Caitlin Clark's release time, which is the same real from three-point range, same release time as Steph Curry, which is 0.43 seconds, which is, you know, the fastest that you can probably ever release a basketball. So just to. Say that again 0.4. 0.430 is for release time same same as Steph Curry which we've everybody's seen the comparisons with Steph Curry just in general and how they shoot but that was that like an. Average.
That this is just I'm I I guess so I don't really know, but this is the number that I found. I mean, that's that's insane. Yeah. I mean, I. Mean. It would have to be. For those that are listening, just think about that that it takes her less than a second 'cause. If you think about think about the end of games, they say that like .4 is the amount of time you need to get an actual like
jump shot off. But even when you see a game and it's like there's .4 or .5 left, a player would like catch and almost just like tape it towards the rail because you can't actually gather and bend your knees. She does that and she doesn't bend her knees a lot, which is crazy, but she gathers and puts it up in that time on average, like whenever. She for three-point range. That's ridiculous. The amount of power and strength
that you have to have. And it's not like she's like, not that she's not strong, but she's not like built like you don't look at it. You don't look at her and think, Oh my gosh, she's very strong. And like, she has muscle. But you can't. It's not like, as visible as it is for somebody like Grace Burger, for example. But the power that she has behind her shot every single
time is crazy. So if I were to ask you guys what Indiana like the thing that Indiana needs to do, obviously you got to try to stop Caitlin Clark as much as you can. But when with a player like that, I mean you you you can only limit her so much, right? I But what is the thing that Indiana has to do in order to give themselves the win tomorrow night? Limit Caitlin Clark and stop everybody else, which is you're not like, you know it's not going to happen. You can't do that.
How do you solve but hunger? Yes, right. World Peace. Because that's, well, that's that's the problem is that there's not a way to stop them. And I, Terry Moran has talked about this before, we're like, you can't stop Caitlin Clark, you just have to try to slow her down a little bit. But that was their problem when they played Iowa last time because that at least in the beginning, they were able to, to keep her from making three pointers and and starting off with a bang.
But other players did because Indiana couldn't control the rest of Iowa's team, which you're not going to be able to do because it's the way that that team is made-up. You can't just stop people from scoring or from playing basketball because they're all so good. So I think that is the mentality that they're going to go in with is try to limit Caitlin Clark and and try to limit everyone else, but more to the extent of like stopping them from being
productive. But I don't know if you're going to be able to do that. Like, I don't know if the way that these two teams match up, I don't know if there's a way to really be super successful in in doing that, but I don't really know what else you could try to do.
Yeah, I I really want to see how Indiana decides to guard the Caitlin Clark ball screens because in that last game and and really every time they played her at least that I can't remember, they've been in a drop and it it allowed her to hit those threes and and some of these games she's just missed threes. So maybe that's what you hope and and and pray that happens. But even even against Illinois they were in a drop and they still got right to the middle of
the paint. So I don't I don't really know what you do. I know it's dangerous to double team her because of how good of a passage she is and all the shooting around her. But I I'd be interesting to see if they at least try it a little bit. The issue is you're not that you're not that tall behind McKenzie Holmes which makes it a a big dilemma because you don't have anybody to help in the paint. But yeah, I don't know what what the strategy would be, but I I
would. I would see if they throw some traps at her early, because I think that'll be a way to just, at the very least, you could say she's used to playing us in a way where we're dropping back and we're just having Chloe Moore McNeil fight over the screens. But if you trap her early in that game, she's going to be thrown. She could be thrown off a bit by the fact that IU specifically is trapping, because that's not what they do. Right.
Well, the last time they played here, Chloe Moore McNeil did a really good job defending her. She did. And and you know, that's the thing that like Indiana has the capabilities to limit her because they've done it before. It's all about, it's all about getting over those screens. That's why they struggled against Illinois. That's why Caitlin Clark was able to go off in the first game this season. If if you can get through and get over those screens, it it changes the the math.
Basically it changes how hard it is for Caitlin Clark to get those shots off and and how close you are when you contest them. If you can't get over the screens, good luck to you. Yeah, well, and if you're making her take shots that you know there is, like you said, like she's missed shots before. It's not like she shoots perfectly. And so maybe at A at a point you want to force her to take shots instead of having her be able to give the ball up to somebody else.
I would love to sit not just with Indiana coaches but just coaches in college basketball. Just sit down and really see how they go about with their Staffs to just really limit Caitlin. Like, I would love to sit down and and see what those
conversations are like. Because I mean it it nobody's been able to find a a clear solution to stopping Caitlin Clark. The team that's done it best probably wasn't Nebraska in that fourth quarter in the game they when they beat them and and that was I know they went heavy into a press and and into a little bit of a boxing one as well. Indiana has that in their bag. Go for it. But I'm not sure they really do. But so that that'll be hard.
But that is the one game I've seen this season because I I know the numbers pretty much look the same all four years, but just the eye test to be she's looked the best this season that she has over the whole four years of her career. This season, that was the only team I saw. Just kind of give her enough issues to really win the game, yeah? So the Hoosiers take on the hot guys tomorrow night on Peacock, 8:00 PM Eastern. We'll all be there. It's going to be a fun one.
Top 15 battle in women's college basketball, the biggest game of the year. It's sold out. It's a white out area at Assembly Hall. Even though they're wearing black uniforms. Even though they're wearing black uniforms, Everybody and everybody, Everybody and everybody, everybody and anybody is going to be there tomorrow. But yeah, so keep up with us on Twitter, all three of us, and then on Post Game Stories, Inside the Hall, Indy Star, check it out. Zion's going to write very good story.
Amanda's going to write a very good story. I will probably do two stories tomorrow. I'd assume we sure. Well, we'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see what happens, but. Going to write not a good story. I will. Write they'll. Write really good stories and I will write. I will do something, but anyway, thank you Zion for joining us. Hopefully you had a good time. Obviously love your insight. A Very. Nice little surprise in the beginning.
Nice little surprise. I was like, you know what I was thinking last night? I was like, how, how could I make this money? I was like, what could I do? I love that you said last night. That means that, no, that this means that Kevin, first of all, happy birthday, by the way. I know, I know we both said it to you, you know, when was your
birthday? But Farless Thursday was his birthday on Monday. But that means that you were like you were sitting upstairs thinking, how am I going to introduce, how am I going to introduce Zion on the podcast? Tomorrow I think you should clip that intro and make it like the intro. You're real, you're real, you're going to get music behind that thing and everything.
That was great. You know, The funny thing is, is I was at upstairs thinking about how am I going to introduce, that's what I was writing when when you were like, Kevin, are you good? I was because that's what I was writing because, and I'm not going to lie, this morning while I was in the shower, I was like, all right, we're going to practice this. We're going to see how we're going to introduce sign. Did the marriage of yourself. No, I just did it in the shower. Did.
You do it out loud. Yeah, I was. I was just saying it out loud. I was like, I was like practicing. I was like. What is going on in? There, my roommates probably like, who is Zion Brown? Like, is Zion Brown here? Like, whatever. But anyway, thank you Zion for joining us. It was super fun to have you. But as always, we'll be back with another episode next week, so enjoy the game and we'll talk to you guys soon.