Ep 1038 - A Proper Podcast Episode

You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast, Galen, Favio, Scott Caulfield joining you. It is the 6th of December of the year 2023. Good to have you folks joining us once again as we are back after a bit of a hiatus, some holidays, some vacations, a little bit everything going on, but we're back tons to talk

about in the IU universe. And Scott, that's how we like it. We're on the positive side of the changeover period here as there's room for optimism with football. Again, there's room for optimism with basketball. I feel like we're in a better mental space than we were two weeks ago. Yes, I I mean, I remember this is like maybe, but before the 2021 football season, I remember like thinking like, man, we're about to have a great run of Indiana sports.

And like, there's some, like, I forget that was like the last Oladipo Pacers year. But I I was thinking about that today. It's like, you know, we coach Sig has been great for football. And then we beat Maryland and we win a road game at Michigan. And then I was at the Pacers playing game against the Celtics there tonight. And it's like, there's again, I've been hurt too much. I'm kind of like this is too good. Like there's too many good things in a row.

Like I don't deserve this. Like what? What's next? Like something bad is going to happen. I think last time we did this, that's when you came to the game with me and then Oladipo broke his leg. So it's like I maybe, maybe I need to stay away from you. You might need. To go back to Hawaii for a little bit, I might do that. Well, I would go back anyway, as you know that would be a better place to recoup. But no, it's it's been a, it's

been a great week. Yeah, it has been and we're going to talk all about it. We've got football talk as we kind of recap most of the first week of the Kurt Signetti area. We're we're not a full week in, but we're we're close and we'll also talk about IU basketball men's team doing some good stuff out there and did something they haven't done in quite a while. We'll talk about that and we've got some conceptual things we need to discuss with both of these programs.

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football. To start with, as IU is almost a full week into the Kurt Cignetti era, a lot to discuss. I think maybe first of all, you and I did an emergency live show when it was clear that Kurt Cignetti was being hired. You've had a chance to marinate on this hire for the last six or seven days. What is your overall reflection right now on the hire? I love it. I mean, it's great. Like he he's been a breath of fresh air, the attitude that he's come in.

So I was at the Maryland basketball game and he came out and, you know, fans were cheering. And he's kind of pumping his fists and doing all that. And you saw him just kind of interacting even before he went out. And then he had just that moment on the court where he, you know, says, you know, like I'm not taking a backseat, you know, produce sucks. Ohio State sucks. Michigan sucks. I loved all that. My, my, my.

The funny part of the reaction to this, since I think you and I have had similar thoughts, is like, I love, I love the little bit of blowback about like, oh, I don't. Should we say that to, you know, Ohio State, to the two parts? Like, should we say that about Ohio State, Michigan, Like, what are they going to do, beat us by more? Like, I think you've said that it's like already going to beat us. But the part that I love more

was. We. We saw a couple I think you know hammer and rails like tweeted at the Crimson cast account. A couple of the Purdue people are like oh man. Like Sam Purdue sucks. Like, is that is that should you do that I'm like you guys will be playing like women's lacrosse against Northwestern and yell IU sucks like you have kids born in the hospital and West Lafayette and you'll yell yell IU sucks like now we do it once and oh we're clutching our pearls like my God, how dare you It's like,

my gosh, like. No one. No one, No one, No one, No one ever accused Purdue new fans of self-awareness, OK? I I love it all and it it this is what I mean. Again, you're winning the press conference. You're winning the first week like that. You know you do need to put some of this into wins on the field, but that's nine months from now. Like with there's nothing else to talk about.

The attitude is is so refreshing and so needed and I was thinking you know we haven't, you know you're you're the better one to ask. But as I go back like I can't remember a coach that came in with this kind of edge like Kevin Wilson kind of came in with like you know, Alan Alan kind of came in under the cloak of darkness and then that was that, you know, Wilson came in and was kind of like you know

this is not a real program. Like I need to show you got like this is not big time football, but it wasn't really a rah, rah type guy. You know, Lynch came in under very unique circumstances. I think Hepner came in with kind of a very positive attitude but not kind of the chippy like hey man, screw them like you know they suck. Like, I don't remember the last time we had a coach kind of come

in with that edge. And I like it because it's like, it goes back to, I think what you had said is like, who cares, man, what? Michigan's already beating us by 30. Like, let's go in and have some edge. And it's the thing that you and I have talked about ad nauseam for years. Like, you have to be past a point where you know, those just can't be chalked up as losses. Like you can't just say, well, we're best we can do is, you know, 8th or 9th in the Big 10.

You have to have a bit of an edge. So I'm. I like all of it. So thus far. I agree. First of all, I've already heard a few people who like, don't like the bruskness of Kurt Cignetti. These are some of the older IU football fans and I'm like, you're you're you're you're rapidly verging on being the problem if that's your attitude already.

So maybe just chill. I I love the the, the, the statement of the Maryland game because what it did was it put IU football back in the news cycle for another day. And you know, the higher had been made and it died down a little bit. And then you're boom, you're back in the news cycle for 24 hours. People are talking about it and that's what this program needs. You know, I mean it's a different version of what Deion Sanders did at Colorado where it's like you need to get

eyeballs. You need to get people paying attention. And look, the you we talked about it earlier. Well you mentioned it earlier. The idea that I mean Michigan and Ohio State are all were already killing us in these games you you don't have anything to lose and it's and no one can take seriously and first of all it's December. It was you know with December 1st or December 2nd when it happened and it's like the first game is in is in August or early September.

The first time you're going to play one of those two teams is like October. Who cares? It would be funny if Michigan loses in the, you know, BCS quarter final or the semi final and they're like, you know, we were just, we were thrown off by Indiana's comments here. Their coach was talking and look, we're just, but you know, we really were just kind of we we overlooked that game against Alabama. We were too busy worried about our game against IU in 2024. But, but it's.

But I also think there's there's a tone you have to set with your team and it feels like that's happened with Signetti, with some of the things that we've already heard him say. It feels like that's something to keep in mind in terms of even some of the decisions that are clearly being made about the roster. You have to set a tone and and your point is really well taken about there's there's different ways to build programs and everybody.

I think the most successful people are going to hue as close as possible to who they actually are as people and how they act as managers and competitors. And this is Cignetti's style. If you you watch that Pat McAfee interview, this is what he does and there is an an aura that comes around with that. It's not the only way to win. You know, Kevin Wilson, like we said earlier, I mean that was, it was not a rah, rah guy, you know, in public. And that was not a guy who's

going to galvanized people. But he could recruit pretty well and he could develop players really well and he had some interesting systems. Tom Allen was kind of all rah, rah, and there wasn't a whole lot beyond that. And it worked at times and then didn't work for most of the time afterwards. But look, I think ultimately for for this IU program, it's not just about getting people to realize that yes, IU football can be relevant and is intending

to be relevant. It's also at this point you need some bravado because you're going into the transfer portal and you're trying to convince players that coming to Bloomington to play football is a good choice, is a choice that isn't just going to yield playing time, but could yield not just a shot at Michigan and Ohio State, but a chance to

maybe win the game. And for the last few years, it really has felt like that hasn't been a realistic option when you come to Indiana. And so look, will it result in wins against those teams? Probably not immediately. But your team believing that they can win in those games and that that's the enemy. And there is much of an enemy as Purdue is. You know, that's the one thing I'll say so much historically has been about the bucket game.

You know, that was Allen's whole thing was, you know, it was Lee Corso's whole thing. Like, what have you done to win the bucket? Mallory did that. You need to win the bucket game far more than Indiana has historically, but you need to win games occasionally against better teams. And you know, beating Michigan once in 35 years and beating Ohio State Nuns in 34 years,

like that's not acceptable. You've you've got to have something to elevate the mentality before you're going to actually elevate the competitive level. So I loved it, thought it was great, thought it was a great

way to get the crowd excited. And you can see the results already in terms of donations, in terms of, you know, nil donations are through the roof for for football in particular the, the, the, I'm just fascinated at the huge changeover in excitement about IU football in the span of a week. I mean, this is this football program went from being like something nobody wanted to talk about to something that people are excited about and it is still nine months away from seeing the first game.

When you that, you hit the nail on the head at the end there because you were saying that you know he has to win over and kind of, you know get his team excited. I think he's got, he's got it. He did also get the fan base excited because as you and I mentioned, there was a complete apathy set in and that, you know, while it's one moment at a basketball game against Maryland that fired up the crowd, it fired up the student section. Like he has to win back the the

fans and get them excited again. And for me, it's like I saw that I'm like, all right, like I like it like this guy's got some edge. Like let's let's go And you, you know, I I keep telling people go and you are the one who got this in my head. So I'm parroting, you know, I'm parroting looking into a mirror, parroting back what you told me. But you know go look at the beginning part of our schedule

next year. It is a very easy beginning part to our schedule and there's a world where we could be four and one or five and two and you and I could be on the pod and be like, I'm not sure if we're good or not. We just haven't played anybody. But it's like we could be five and two like there's a really nice way to lead in here. So I'm, I'm excited. I would also say this to talk to a couple people. One, my dad who I love, but he's very, very older and having the portals tough for him.

He's like, man, you know, a lot of guys are in the portal. I'm like well and but anybody who thinks, I would say two things like First off, this is a team that won three Big 10 games in three years. So it's like there is a world where it's like, hey man, everybody in the portal is not a bad thing. But the second thing that I would say is, you know, this is coaches have had this ability for years. Like now the players, dude,

don't get freaked out. And I've said this, you know, every IU player should go into the portal right now because they're getting a new coach, You're getting a new boss. Like maybe Signetti doesn't like the way you play. Maybe he doesn't have your style. Maybe he's got a player he wants to bring in. Like, you don't know any of that. Maybe you could leverage to get more nil dollars out of IU.

It's like this is what having agency is all about and they all should go in and a lot of them will go in. I mean you know Trace Jackson famous win in the portal and came back. So I just for people who are concerned like Oh my God there, you know so many people in the portals like I would expect 100% in the portal and then it's sick Danny's job to bring them back or find other people. So just a couple of those things that it's I've I've heard those

concerns. The last one that I've heard too, just kind of hitting all my scarecrow arguments here was, you know, some people are like, man, you know, you know, he has experience building programs but not, you know, not a lot of, you know, Power 5 experience. And part of me is like, all right, well, there's also the reality that like we are not Ohio State. Like at some point you're not

going to get all boxes checked. Like a guy who has great experience building programs, is 38 years old, has experience at a Power Five, has been to Abcs like. Guess what? We're not hiring that guy. So it's like not all the boxes get to be checked. I would note that the last coach Ohio State hired had no head coaching experience at the Power Five level.

This was, this was something during the coaching search that we went through and and sequenced on Twitter, which was that, you know, when you get down to it and I mean I think I, I, I'll answer my own question from earlier. I'm really excited about the Signetti hire. I love the fact that he takes a picture of his office as he walks in on Monday at 5:45 in the morning and it's like, you know let's get to work and it's like that's that's what I want

to see. That's what IU fans want to see, that level of work ethic. Not that it wasn't happening before and I and I think that this is clear, I think any any head football coach worth their salt is probably putting in a tremendous amount of work. But this is, this is an industry increasingly I think, where you have to be able to show what you're doing to get people excited and it is such a mark you. Have to have wins. Like it's just if you don't show it, well then you have to have

wins. But, but to go back what I was saying, like if you go through and look at the the coaches that I think 10 teams have hired it and just go through all the ones that have happened recently, it's, you know, you Michigan State hired an Oregon State coach losing record with a losing record, right. You know, Purdue hired A defensive coordinator who hadn't been a head coach. Northwestern hired a defensive coordinator.

Yeah. With, you know you had you know Michigan State prior to that had hired the Colorado head coach who had coached for one year. I mean, you can go down the list, the amount of Power 5 head coaching experience outside of weird situations like Greg Schiano going back to Rutgers, just that's not there. And so look, I I get, I I will say this, I understand the skepticism.

And there, you know, I think that if you're looking at Cignetti's experience and you're like, I need to see more at the Power Five level, I get it. I also don't think Indiana was going to find a whole lot of guys who had that success and were willing to come and we're affordable. You know, there's a lot of elements that go into that.

The other thing though, I'll say is, you know the I heard I was talking to somebody and it's like, well, they're more concerned about the assistants coming in because they, you know, it's like basically he's brought his entire James Madison staff with him, with one or two exceptions. And that is going to be interesting to watch because there's a lot of really interesting looking, promising

young assistants. And most of that staff, you know, I think is they graduated from College in the last 20 years or so. You do have a little bit of concern like how well will those folks translate up to this level. I I am less concerned about that then maybe I would be otherwise because of the fact that Signetti coached for so long at the Power Five level. He knows what it's going to take.

I doubt he's going to put himself in a position where he hire somebody that he knows can't do the job. Not that we have any experience with that here at Indiana, but the, you know, I I think it to some degree we'll have to see when the rubber meets the road how these folks do. But I like the idea that he's comfortable with the staff and he's putting them in position. But I understand why people

might be concerned about that. I want to get to what you mentioned though about the the portal and transfers. And I'm seeing a lot of angst on Twitter especially but elsewhere as well about all the names that have hit the portal. Because it's not just the brand names like the Donovan Mccully's and the Jalen Lucas who was in the portal today. Brendan Soresby, who's already committed to Cincinnati, which was the worst kept secret, I think in nil for about a month.

But it's also guys who are either younger players or players that were, you know, look like more depth pieces that we're going to build. And a lot of people are like, wow, isn't this concerning? And I think it's important to differentiate. Hey, you're going to get a lot of Exodus regardless. Whenever there's a coaching search, and you know a lot of that is there's differences in philosophies as far as who can play at this level, how effective they can be. You know what system you're

using. We still don't know what system on either side of the ball that Cignetti's planning on using. It might be similar to what we saw at James Madison. They seem more flexible than Alan, who was a very inflexible coach when it came to his defensive system and increasingly his offensive system.

So I'm not surprised, nor am I really that worried about the huge amount of changeover that's happening on the roster, because A, we don't even know if those pieces would have fit with what Signetti and his staff have in mind. And B, as you said, it's a team that won three Big 10 games in

three years. And frankly, and some of this is OK, maybe there's a changeover in coaching staff where they could get to this point, but the previous coaching staff really struggled to develop players over multiple years. It's hard to say whether that was a problem with development or whether they were getting guys who maxed out in high school and didn't have a lot of room for development.

Either way, I think a fresh started a lot of these positions and for a lot of these players is a good thing because I think it was clear that they had a hard ceiling in many cases on what they were going to be able to accomplish here. For every, you know, for every, you know, Micah McFadden or Aaron Casey or whoever who really did blossom, it felt like there were five or six IU players who just never quite got anywhere close to where you wanted to see them get to.

And you know, again, whether that's a talent cap or whether that's a development cap, either way there is going to be some changeover. Now in addition to that, it's also nil. And as you said, players, if you're going to, if you're going to try to maximize your potential, find a good spot for yourself, you're going to go in the portal and there will be some people and we've already seen some people that have gotten pulled back.

But it's also recruits, you know, not just the recruits that have been signed that some of them have announced that we're not, you know, the the the scholarships not being honored. So now they're free to go elsewhere. But it's also looking at the next recruiting class and trying to figure out how does this tapestry come together. So for those who are panicked about the exodus of IU players, this would have happened anyway under a change in in regime.

It is actually easier to fix now because of the portal, and it's probably better for all parties rather than making the coaching staff and the players each deal with a situation that isn't ideal for either party over the course of another season or two. Yep. I want to hit one more thing and I'm kind of I'm piggybacking off something that you had in one of

the the VIP posts. But I I noticed it at the Maryland game and it's, it's also another good sign, I think of Indiana University having kind of their things aligned for the first time in a while and taking it seriously. And that is, you know, you mentioned, you know, Pam Witton, the president of Indiana or Indiana University. You know, I was thinking about it. You know, you were talking about, you know, maybe IU doesn't put the resources and be as aggressive under the old, you

know, Mcrobbie regime. And I was thinking, you know, that I go back to that that game, the Iowa game that you and I went to before the 2021 season. You know, we were in the student, we were in the IU section and Pam Witton was there. And I remember thinking like, wow, like that's our new at the time. Like, that's our new president. Like, she came to Iowa. She's in a football game.

Like that's that's odd. And then you and I were in New York just, you know, a couple weeks ago for the the the game against Connecticut and then Louisville, she was there as well. And then, you know, I, when you saw Cignetti come out during the Maryland game, you know he's with with Dolson, but Pam Witten's there and she gives him a hug. And I I see that and I hear you talk about it and I think it is it.

It's nice to know that we do have kind of synergy all the way up the chain of command because I, I, I do think this allows this gives Dolson the ability to do the things that he's needing to do. It allows us to kind of push forward to get the like. It's just it is a nice feeling at a high level to be like, hey, we are all focusing on this and we're all taking this seriously. Whereas you know under MC Robbie, I never saw him at any athletic events.

Not that I'm saying I need to see the present there all the time, but it's like this is you know, when you think about it, you know whether they like it or not. You know your football and your basketball coach in Indiana are two of the most public facing people that the university has. And so, you know, as much as you want to talk about academics and research university, which is all true, your football coach is a huge hire for the university from a public perception.

And the fact that I, I don't ever remember seeing Mcrobbie at the Allen hiring or the Wilson hiring, like seeing Pam Witton so involved, I think is a really, really good thing. So I'm just kind of parroting what you said. But just seeing, you know, kind of thinking back as I was listening to you talk about it, like, oh, she's in New York. She's at this gate like she's at a lot of athletic events. I think that's a really good thing.

Yeah, Look, and obviously I the VIP post is there for people that want to go back and watch it. But it's it's not just the appearances. It's the whole the whole sequence of events, the hat, the fact that IU administration has decided to really embrace this process, take it seriously. I think it's really important

for the university. And it's this is where I think this is where as as a guy who does this for a living, it's, it's funny sometimes when I talk with, you know faculty colleagues and whatnot and try to explain why all this is important. And you know most, most people who work as professors don't they, they actually go out of their way to act like football and basketball are. They're just diversions. Maybe not even that. They're not everybody. And, you know, and they're.

And I think there are some folks that really do get it. And I understand the academic perspective because we've been told over and over again both inside and outside universities that, you know, it's about academics. You know, the whole NCAA thing, student athlete, like that's the

whole, whole conceit, right. But realistically, from a marketing perspective, it is the most effective way to mass market your university and to keep it relevant in the minds of not just college athletes or potential college athletes, but of high school students and parents. Well, no. Well, yes, alumni, yes, donors. I'm talking about the next generation of students who are thinking about where they're going to go to college and whether people want to admit it or not.

A huge number of undergraduates choose where they're going to go to school. Based upon have I heard about the institution? Does it seem like a good place, a fun place to go? I've I know a lot of kids who went to Alabama and and actually transferred after a couple of years and came back to the Midwest. Why did they go to Alabama? Because that looked like the place to be because of how successful their football program was. And but you you saw it when Bob

Knight passed away. A lot of people like friends of ours and like Matt Zimmerman, like people who are like. I knew of Bob Knight and I kind of wanted to go to IU because of that. It's like that that was for a lot of people. It was like Bob Knight was 123 reasons to go to IU. Sorry, no. And but I know I think it's a that I I remember meeting a girl at Briscoe during orientation and she was from California and we got to talking and I was like why do you, why are you here?

And she's like, oh, because of the basketball program and that was not uncommon And and and I think for Indiana in particular, so much of the university's national reputation among students has been has started because of the athletic successes that existed and those just haven't been around very much over the course of the last 20 years.

And some of that has been due to a variety of factors, but a lot of it's been the the higher up, the upper level administration at the university didn't really bring athletics front and center as a part of how everything was marketed.

It was nice to have, but I think what we've seen over the last couple of years has been a real refocus on this as being central to the not just the the marketing arm of the university, but like this is part of what Indiana's brand is and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. In fact, I think there's a lot of things right with that because a lot of the success that Indiana had as a nationwide brand in the 70s and 80s and 90s was specifically because of the

basketball program. And a lot of the waning that's happened since the Miles brand era started has been due to, for a variety of reasons, athletics kind of being pushed further and

further away from the circle. And so to see Pam Witten, you know, front and center talking 1st at the at the coach press conference when he's hired and to see her with the the, the coach at the basketball game, I mean, the other things matter at at the very least, it indicates that you have a president who is conscious of of those things And whatever else people might think about the university, it does appear like there's an investment there. And that doesn't have to be it.

It can live at the same time with being a great academic institution. These don't have to be separate. Yeah, these things don't have to be separated. So that I think is a a good point and I'm glad you brought it up. A couple other things I'll say, we're not like there's a ton of of offers going out and there's going to be just a tremendous amount of changeover and I'm really fascinated to see where it goes.

Certainly they've been offering receivers left and right, which kind of makes me think that Donovan Mccully is not going to

be here. You know, he's got an offer from Penn State. Now he's got like, I think he's kind of, when I was looking at the Crystal Ball projections, they've got Mccully either like Penn State or South Carolina or there was a third school that I don't remember what it was Matthew. To Penn State, he just continues to want to lose to Michigan. And there you go, there you go. Matthew Bedford I think just announced going to Auburn. Carter Smith is 100% projected to go to Ole Miss, which is

unfortunate. That's a guy you would have liked to have kept Jalen Lucas in the portal. One of the things I I want to just and I'm going to do a larger podcast, I think Taylor Lehman's going to join me on this one where we kind of talk about this. But one of the things I think it's important to keep in mind is that it's not just about talent coming and going. It's also about resource management as it comes to name, image and likeness and the money that you've got there.

And the idea that now, I mean Cignetti went on the on Kevin Bowen's show and and jQuery show, I think it was either yesterday or the day before and seem satisfied with the the war chest or the Kitty that he's got from nil. It's not inexhaustible and certainly it's not going to be at the same level of an Ohio State or a Michigan or even a Penn State. So Indiana to some degree has to play money ball with the resources that they've got.

And that is going to require some different types of decisions, some hard decisions about what you're willing to expend resources on. And this is where if you're familiar with the concept of Moneyball and Scott, I know you are, but the audience may not be, it's really about, you know, can you find inefficiencies in the marketplace? Can you find distressed assets And can you develop those assets into something that is above the level that you got them for?

Can you be competitive with those assets? And can you figure out like where's the money to be spent? And so I'll use someone like Jalen Lucas as an example of this. You know, that was, if you remember last summer, Jalen Lucas. It felt like the focal point of nil in a lot of ways. It was him and Deson McCullough and you know, McCullough I think wanted to leave, like he wanted to go to a bigger football brand. Can't blame him there.

But Lucas, you know, there was this big struggle about Jalen Lucas getting enough nil money and Tom Allen even in a press conference, you know, kind of whined about, well, we know we got him a good deal, but we didn't get him the life changing money that he, you know, deserved basically, or that we would need to keep a player like that around. And then this season happened and Jalen Lucas really struggled to do anything but contribute in special teams and he did a good

job of that. But for a school like Indiana, that's almost a luxury as opposed to a necessity and to spend a huge amount of money in nil on a player who can contribute in the kicking game. But that's, you know, that's an irregular thing that you're contributing. You can kick away from him or, you know, not give him the ball. In a lot of cases it certainly helps, like certainly he was a key part of that, that game against Purdue where Indiana was

able to keep it close. But the coaching staff, I think this coaching staff seems to be a bit more savvy about where to focus the money. And rather than a spending a bunch of money on a player who may be able to only contribute in a limited way, maybe you take that money and distribute it in a way that you can get players that are contributing regularly. Whether that's line play, whether that's receivers, whether that's every down backs, whether that's a quarterback.

I mean, there's a bunch of different ways you could do it, but I think that's the mentality that Indiana fans have got to get into because that's what's going to have to happen.

And for a school like Indiana, who if you're just going straight on recruiting is going to take several years to get their talent levels up to a competitive level, you're going to have to be clever with how you allocate the nil money just as much as you're trying to figure out what talent you want to have on the field and how you're going to. Use that talent. No, I I completely agree. I think the Moneyball example is is very apartment.

And I mean the other piece too is, you know, with Moneyball it's it's about finding the inefficiencies but also finding the inefficiencies that work for the system that you're going to use. You know, like the IT was, it was written about the Oakland A's but they had, they had a big thing about, you know trying to just get on base and that was their whole thing about, you know, on base percentage.

And Lucas is a really interesting example because you know, I I don't know how Signetti what his offense is going to look like. I hope it doesn't look like a

lot of runs up the middle. But you know that was the other thing with with you know Lucas is a talent but it's like is he going to fit the offense of signetti wants to run cause Lucas is good but he it it showed this year was hard to get him involved in either running or the passing game just because of you know inability to do that. So it becomes one of these like he might be a distressed asset but if you can't use him in the system you're going to use it

doesn't make any sense. And so this is where, you know, Signetti has to look and be like, all right, like you said, maybe it's a lot of line play and then you know a lot of receivers and they're going to pass a lot. You know, it's it's this is again. With this coaching change, you're going to have the system change, but I think everything you said is is dead on an

apartment. And look, yeah, I think it's going to be a painful one for a lot of IU football fans because there's there's names of people that you've grown accustomed to who have been the best players. And it's like they may not fit into this and it may not just be a talent thing. I think this is a thing with Donovan Mccully. Like that's clearly a talented player.

But there's so many receivers and you know, I mean, if you look at the players Indiana got out of the portal this year, I mean the couple of them were really functional receivers. Camp camper's in the portal and and it's like what you'd need to keep those guys around. It's like it may not be worth it. It's actually, if you go back to the Colts situation with Jonathan Taylor, it's a very similar thing that the Colts ended up paying Taylor.

But there were the argument against paying Taylor was, is it worth that amount of money for a running back when you're probably going to get 90% of the production, maybe even more than that if you combine two players for half the salary. That's just generally how these things work out if you're being smart about it. And so we'll see.

I think, you know there's going to be some head scratching among IU fans and we can trust, we can say we're going to trust Signetti and his coaching staff in terms of what they're doing. We kind of don't have a choice. We have to trust them at this point and it might all turn out to not be immediately positive

or work. But that's essentially the business I think IU is going to have to be in if they're going to get the roster up to a point where it can not only be competitive, but can you maximize the resources that it has at its disposal? When I I know that I agree with you on the trust thing, and I think you know for this is where it's tough. But I will defend us on our own pod. You're in our turf now, baby.

You know, we we were very critical of Alan the last couple of years because the results were not matching what we were hearing and what we were seeing. But if you go back and and listen to our pods when Wilson was hired or even when Alan was hired, you know we we were both kind of you know puzzled by the Alan that that whole process. But go back and listen to us and I'm sure you will hear like we we it's like all right let's see how it goes like we we try and like those first year or two.

Like I remember it was tough with those first years of Wilson was like hey he's got to rebuild a program like this is going to take some time you know and unhappy to go like whatever it

was 111 that first year. But you know I do think you know I think that we are fair with new coaches and I think everyone should be. And like you said, you don't have a lot of choice but it's like you have to trust it for a year or two and then you'll start to kind of see like all right is, is the stuff that's coming out of the oven really

what we're expecting to see. And then then you can start making some decisions and then you know you and I can get if we need to get critical and then we can kind of check out. But I I think if you go back and listen to us from you know 2016 to 2020, I I don't think we were ever like as harsh on Allen as we were at the end because we understood it was a process.

And so just defending us, I think you know this is kind of this this cycle that we get into is we will now you know kind of just blindly have I'll say blindly have faith because you have to have faith with the process the first couple of years. And even though we're going to look at it with a critical eye, there's only so much you can look at and see And it's like in the end it's going to be results and it's probably going to take a year or two.

But again I'll go back to the beginning of that, the beginning stretch of the season. You know, yes, if we go out and start O and six based on what we have as our schedule, I'm going to be very concerned. But I don't think that's going to happen. And I do have faith. This is a guy who has been able to turn things around quickly and when he. I got to James Madison. There was probably a lot of turnover and there wasn't a

portal there. So yeah, I don't know any of my point of kind of rambling on no, no, no, these are all we won't know. But yeah, this, I guess I I wanted to mention it on this podcast and like I said, we'll, I'll do a deeper dive on a future podcast about why all this stuff works, the way that it works and what the marketplace looks like. But I think for IU fans who are puzzled by what they're seeing and worried about an exodus of talent, there is a There's a method to this and it's

happening. It happens in a bunch of places and it's up to the coaching staff to make the right decisions, not just about who to bring in, but who to retain. It's also up to the coaches to figure out which guys aren't going to be important to the long term planning. It's like there was a tweet today about the five star long snapper saying that his scholarship offer has been rescinded and my first thought was why? Why did we make a scholarship offer to a Long snapper?

That's a luxury we don't get to have. And that's the point. And so So we'll see. And who knows, maybe Signetti won't be any better than Allen at this, but the track record would tend to indicate otherwise. Anyway, we'll stop on football. Let's move over to men's basketball. So men's basketball is 7 and one. Speaking of distressed assets, a hat tip to Mike Woodson for going out and getting Khalil Ware, who, my God, man, like,

you want to talk about a player? I'm I'm, I'm already struggling, Scott, to figure out mentally a player. That gives me the same kind of reaction that Khalil Ware does in terms of just watching him play and being like, I don't think I've ever seen an IU basketball player look quite like he looks. In terms of how he plays offense, in terms of how he rebounds, in terms of his ability to I I don't. I've never. I've watched basketball for so long.

I can't. I think I've ever seen a player actually jump and break up a down the court inbounds pass at the end of the game without really looking like he even stretched himself out that much. I mean, the guy is, you know, Zach Osterman of the tweet yesterday. It's like with every game, it's really hard to explain or justify how Oregon couldn't figure out a way to get him on the court. He was a huge part of Indiana's win last night as they knock off.

Michigan had a great first half scoring didn't have as great of a second-half. The foul trouble hurt him a little bit and got him out of rhythm, but made some key plays down the stretch. And you know, for this Indiana team who a lot of people left for dead after the Army game and certainly after EU, Conn and Louisville games to go out and win at Michigan. A team that at the very least is a pier for them right now in the conference in terms of talent level and I think overall ability.

That's a huge positive step for this Indiana program and this season in particular when it looked like things were going off the rails. Not a perfect game, not a perfect set of performances, but enough to get the victory on the road. Yeah, I'm happy. Let's start with Khalil Ware. He's been unbelievable.

A friend of ours, Jeremy Grey, had a tweet during the game yesterday of like it was after that, that little that move with like the crazy like side dribble than the kind of the sky hook that was just like he's like, I can't. His tweet was I'm paraphrasing and was like, I just, I don't know what comp. I've never seen a player like this before at IU and I was thinking about it today.

Like it. It's unfortunate that he comes, you know eight months after Trace Jackson Davis because you want to say this is one of the best big man I've seen an IU for you know 20 years. But it's like we did this have Trace Jackson Davis for five years who is awesome. But like the the again two things can be true at the same time. Trace was awesome. He was a unique talent. Like Clear Aware is

unbelievable. And like you said, I've not seen that inbounds block like that should be a stat like that should just count as a block or something. That was unbelievable. At the end of the game, he does it with kind of like a dating myself reference like a Bjorn Borg kind of icy coolness like, hey, I'm just going to jump like

my wife was like whoa, whoa. Like she had a friend who doesn't have Peacocks. Like I'm going to like did the filming of it on the TV and we're like he was like higher than the backboard. And again look like he kind of did half effort and gets the ball just kind of dribbles out with the guy. We're done. It's like like that was the coolest point I've ever seen. He's he's phenomenal. He has a block in every game but

the Connecticut game. His offensive rating has been over 100 in every game but the Connecticut game and he still I think played pretty well And he's he's one of those guys that if you're just looking at stats I don't even think the stats do him justice, 'cause last night you know he got in a little bit of foul trouble when he was in the game. He effects things on both sides of the court.

You know you you see guys from Michigan drive, you see I mean any whoever we're playing they drive in and they immediately like stop and turn around like they just he doesn't. He gets probably 5 non blocks a game where guys would have been putting up a lay up but just don't because they they see him there. They know he's there. His help defense is great. No, he is. He's so good. He is so good. And credit to him for everything he's doing.

Credit to the staff for finding this distressed asset and bringing him in. And it's, you know, it's Alex Bozich. And I had a podcast beginning of the year talking about Cleo Ware and he brought up a point that thought was valid and it's showing true now that, you know, this was kind of a make or break year for Ware because if he had kind of a dud year, you know, he'd suddenly then be a junior.

It's like, all right, well, now that now that things have kind of passed, it's like it's going to be really hard to work your way back up to a first round pick. He's playing like a lottery pick right now. I mean, the stuff he's doing, NBA scouts are just going to be, you know, salivating to see this out of a 7 foot, 7 foot one guy. So, you know, as he goes, Indiana goes, he's phenomenal.

But I will also segue that you're also seeing, you know, Malik Renew step up to a whole other level and his efficiency has been unbelievable. Like, you know, this is kind of like a hold my beer situation. Like, you know, when you look at two of the most, you know, Khalil Ware is one of the most efficient 2 point scores in the big 10. It's like Renew's like hold my beer, 'cause I'm also up there And like, you know, Ted, like they together, they have been

awesome. And it's been really nice to see Renew, who showed flashes last year of this, Just really take on a workload. And I think he has, you know, he's handling the ball the most. Like he is basically the focal point of the offense. And as great as Ware has been renewed to me has also been as it's been as great to see him develop, you know, in his second year. I agree with all of that and Indiana's desperately need. I mean, I don't know where they would be without Khalil Ware.

I've had like five or six people text me that and it's true. You know the Indiana. We need to, we need to take a second and acknowledge that on Ken Palm this season, Indiana has now reached dead last in Division One for the total percentage of points off of three pointers compared to their total amount of points scored. Only 12.6% of Indiana's points

have come off of threes. That is 360 second and it's actually 6/10 of a percentage point behind 360 first, which is Houston Christian. Now where else, folks, he's shooting 50% from thrilling. He should be shooting more. It's pretty wild. But, but Indiana's fifth in the country in percentage of points that are coming off of twos. And what I think is fascinating about this team right now is. They clearly. For whatever reason are not hitting threes. They're not really able to shoot

them. And we saw some potentially positive signs from CJ Gunn last night where he finally hit his, what, 1st and 2nd? Or I think it was his first and 2nd threes of the season in that game against Michigan. But it's right now it's like trying to get water from a dry well with the three-point shooting and it's just wild that you know Indiana, this was their five and O under Woodson, I think was the stat that I saw now with shooting less than 10

threes. And they have really feasted on teams that they can exploit in the paint. They did that against Michigan yesterday and the fact that, you know, you look down the line as far as the threes it, you know, Trey Galloway missed three of them. You know, But you've seen like they the guys that are think they can hit, which is at this point just gun and Mbako are not afraid to throw them up when they're there. But they're looking to drive more often than not.

And as much as people understandably complain about the offensive system, Indiana is such a dominant post team right now because of Khalil Ware. Especially because of Malik Renew, who doesn't look like he should be as unstoppable as he is. And yet just he's got a set of post moves that, while different than Trace Jackson Davis, are really, really hard to stop unless you double him.

And now, with the emergence of both Ware and Imbaco as regular scoring options, you can't effectively double renew because he's such a good passer. And yes, he makes some mistakes, he throws some turnovers here and there, but he is. He's one of the best passing big man I think I've ever seen in an Indiana uniform. And you know that. I don't think anybody expected it to go the way that it's gone so far this season, but I will say that I looked at that

Michigan game last night. I didn't think Indiana was going to win up until the last minute of the game. And the fact that Indiana pulled that out, playing the way that they did, playing defense significantly better than they have. There was that staff that I printed I I tweeted out this morning, Indiana over the last five halves of basketball, second-half of Harvard, and then the four halves versus Maryland and Michigan. They've only allowed opponents to shoot 7 for 42 from 3:00

during that time. That's stellar like that. You'll take that, you know, 10 times out of 10, you know, this team has improved so much since the start of the year. They still have a long way to go. They still really have a lot of struggles in the backcourt that are incredibly concerning. And it's at this point I'm like, where is the fix going to come from? But the fact that Indiana has survived, they've lost the game.

Everybody thought they were going to lose anyway and that's it. They haven't played great in all of the games. They haven't been dominant, but they keep winning these games. Like that is going to matter if they can continue to get incrementally better in each game. And it kind of feels like under Mike Woodson, they've got a better chance of doing that than not at this point. Yeah, I mean that win last night, you know, there was a point.

There were both teams were trying to give it to each other. You know, Michigan kept turning it over. We kept having an inability to kind of take control of the game when it was being given to us and then vice versa. But, you know, after after the game we won, I thought to myself, like, that's one of those games where, you know, I'm not not the best corollary, but we're like, you know, when, like, you know, Rutgers is like fourth in the league.

And, you know, last year in, you know, in February, you look at, it's like, oh, yeah, well, they. But they won those two games in December. It's like one of those just going to continue to provide dividends. Like this is one of those, like, games that feels like maybe not this year, but like in previous years, this feels like a game.

Like Michigan State always wins. Like they're always in the top three in the Big 10 because like, they just have all these games where it's like, yeah, but like they, you know, Michigan's kind of having a bad year, but they pop up and down. But it's like Michigan State beat them then and Michigan

State took care of them then. And it's like how often have we looked at teams that's like they get those two wins in December and it's like those just provide dividends throughout the throughout the Big 10 where it's like you're already two. And oh I don't I I feel like we're always one and one coming out of these games. I can't remember a time we were two and oh and this is great. It's a road win.

You know, it doesn't solve all of the problems, but it it's it's unlike games that we've won in the past. You know, normally those are the types of games where it's up for grabs and we either don't take it or we end up making the one more extra mistake and we didn't and we, you know, we closed it out. You know, like that was kind of what was cool is it wasn't just like that we didn't make the last mistake. You know, we hit a shot and then

we made the smart. You know, we we hit our free throws and then we fouled in a smart manner and then they missed their free throws and we hit our free throws again. They missed and then we stopped the inbounds play from having the the game daily. We made five. We basically closed it out there at the end with smart plays, smart coaching and hitting free throws. I'm with you on all of that. I'm also.

It's frustrating that again, we look to our backcourt and it's like that's where our leadership is, That's where all of our years of experience. I understand Xavier Johnson has been hurt, but to be fair, he hadn't been playing at a stellar level up to that point. I hope he can get healthy and get back. But you know that that's where you look at Trey Galloway. And you know, this is something I'd brought up, I think in a previous pod.

But you know, this is we're getting into kind of very very concerning regression territory where it looks like his junior year may have been an aberration. There's still a lot of time to get it back, but his numbers look very similar to his freshman and sophomore year and that's just not going to cut it. And then to to your point, when you kind of like, you know, you look at, like, all right, well, you know, Gabe Cups is a freshman. CJ Gunn has had struggle shooting.

Hopefully he can get himself out of it. Will he shot. But it's like you look around like it's not a lot of other options and like it's going to be a lot of time out of those guys if unless Trey Galloway can really step it up to the next level. So I'm, I am concerned about that. But you you once again have this rock in the post and now you have like the double post presence of wear and renew that

you didn't have last year. I mean Reyce Thompson was a good compliment, but he wasn't always able to be leaned upon. I mean, we are at a point now where I really feel like you're going to get. A pretty solid performance every time out out of Renew and wear. Yeah. And and look, I think, I mean, let me touch on the Galloway thing first. He's clearly pressing and he's clearly affected. I mean the the numbers just don't make sense. He's down. He was a 64% free throw shooter last year.

He's at 56% so far on this season. He's actually shooting the ball from 2 better this year by a pretty significant margin. He's gone from a 48% shooter to a 58% shooter from 2. The problem is he's dropped from a 46% three-point shooter to a 13 1/2 percent 3 point shooter. His his turnovers are up marginally and he's just not a very efficient player right now. His efficiency numbers dropped by almost 2/10 of a point that's that's just you know someone.

There's been a lot of commentary on the discord about this and you know, some people have said well he's not meant to be this kind of primary offensive option. Someone compared it to what happened to Will Shee Hee between Shee Hee's junior year, which was the 13th season when he was essentially the 6th man kind of add on could come in and do damage at times versus his his senior year where his minutes jumped. And clearly there was a regression with Shee Hee offensively a little bit in

terms of his efficiency. His turnovers got, you know, jumped up. He was still a pretty good shooter. His shooting really never left him, but he tried to do too much because I think he felt compelled to. And if everybody remembers that team from 1314, you could see why he felt that way. And I feel like Galloway is. He clearly misses Johnson because Gabe Cubs is still learning the game of basketball.

And I think Cubs actually Cubs actually played pretty well yesterday, all things considered. I was. I was pleased with he's he's he's taking less off the table and putting more on the table every game now as he's I think starting to realize that he can indeed play physically against some of these guys.

But Galloway I think, still like his ability to play as a fourth or fifth offensive option like he was last year versus having to be the initiator at this particular point is clearly not working for him and and last night might have been the worst game that we've seen out of him. Now I I'll be really surprised if that lasts. But I also think like at some point, this is a string of five games now and four of them have seen him register an offensive rating under 100.

He played really well against Maryland, but he struggled in a lot of the other ones. And you know, as we've said on the show, I think everybody's rooting for Trey to do better. If he doesn't, it really puts a hard ceiling on what this team can accomplish because it essentially means that you have to get 20 and eight out of renew and 15 and eight out of where. Fortunately, they've been able to do that.

It just makes you think about, you know, what the ceiling of the team could be with a healthy Xavier Johnson, with a a Trey Galloway that isn't feeling the pressure, and a rotation that can include ACJ gun and a Gabe Cups playing at a level that isn't damaging to the team when they're out there. Because the rest of the pieces look there. I've been, you know, I think Mike Woodson, you can real quick. Yeah, Go ahead, please. Trey, like I I would push not to you, but to those who are

sailing. I would push back a little bit that you know he's he's having to do a slightly more bringing the ball up and being a little more point guard role. But you know last year when his numbers were very, you know, had the best year of his career, you know, he was only using the ball 12% of possessions. You know this year it's 17% of possessions, which is higher. But it's still in like the Ken

Pom world. He's still a role player and it's still he's still not the primary option on offense like this year you have where you have renew.

Last year you had TJD you know you had Hood Shapino, you had renew like you know and in reality it's not like he has to start every as a point guard just dump it into the post and you know if that's if that the thing that I would you know if I was talking to Trey Galloway is like look just your role is the same as last year like you're maybe using the ball a tiny bit

more but nothing has changed. You know you still have two great guys in the post like you're still getting the same you should still be getting the same types of looks you got last year. You just need to kind of do that And so I I I would push back against the fact like he's, you know it's it's too much of A role for him. It's like to to me it's like his role is the same. Well he's having a really hard time hitting threes and and you know, being efficient with what he's doing.

And and look I think that that's fair potentially as well it it's tough because it's hard to say OK what are the which plays are set up for him and he's not able to to capitalize on. I will say I if he feels like he has to do a lot on offense, I don't think he has to do nearly as much as he thinks he has to do. But you you've he's you know they got to get over the mental block of the threes because at this point it doesn't make any sense.

Like one of two things is true. Either last year was an aberration or this year is an aberration. Statistically speaking, I think it's important to bring up like Galloway's first two seasons at IU. He shot 18% from three his freshman year on 6 for 33 shooting. He shot 21% from three his sophomore year, which is 21%. Last year he shot 30 of 65. That was 46% and now he's back to 13 1/2%. And it's like, well, we'll see what happens the rest of the

year. But it's possible that he's not a good outside shooter that had a great like aberration year last year in terms of shooting. But you know, if that's the case, then Indiana's got to figure something else out. Whether that's, you know, putting him Bako in different spots on the floor and teeing him up because he seems to be getting into a rhythm shooting. And we know that he's got range

and he'd almost. It's like if you could get him the shots that Galloway is missing from long distance because Galloway's either got a mental block or just isn't really that good of an outside shooter. At the end of the day, that changes a lot of what Indiana could potentially do offensively. I don't know. I don't know how that manifests itself or even if that's something that Woodson wants to

do, you know. But I've heard Woodson now on like what four different occasions in a post game say I got to get the I got to get I got to help the guards or I got to help the backcourt or I got to get the backcourt up and running. It's like I hear you coach, you get. That's true. You do. I'm I'm wondering if they just need to completely junk what they've tried to set up up to this point because it's not working and.

Or I also, I also wonder if you know, if Woodson's looking at it at, you know, we look at the guards as, you know, Galloway and you know, Xavier and Cubs. But you know, maybe he's looking at it as like Mbacco, as a, you know, as a guard type position. Because that's something I do want to highlight too, is just Mbacco has started to show flashes of what I think we were

all looking for. It's like he almost left the bad Mackenzie Mbacco in New York, you know, because up until that point it looked like he was kind of lost in college basketball, having a really hard time figuring out defense, his place

on offense. And. And what's interesting is, you know, the the competition has ratcheted up just a tiny bit since we, I mean not UConn level, but it's like, you know, compared to Florida, Gulf Coast, Army and Wright State, you know, Harvard, Maryland and Michigan, Imbacco has come in and you know, offensive ratings of 125, one 5129, you know, struggled a little bit, one for five against Harvard from three, but then one for two, one for two, you know,

18 points, 13 points, 12 points like it looks like he's starting to. To get his footing and starting to feel like, all right, I understand. I'm starting to see where I can fit in in college basketball. And to me that's that's a real key to this team. And it's possible that you can just get Imbaco going, even kind of keep his growth potential going. He could kind of play a pseudo guard position.

And if you're Woodson, it's like, all right, you know, you know, I want Galloway to get better. But it's like Galloway is, you know, a fourth year player like this is. He might just be what he is now. Like in Baco. There's room to grow. Here's the thing, though. Much like Mike Woodson didn't give up on Mackenzie and Baco after some bad performances, he can't give up and won't give up on Trey Galloway after some bad

performances. And I, I I was thinking it would be funny with all of the the fake angst from the basketball experts about how the reason Mbako's playing badly is because he's a four, not a three. You know, all that stupid nonsense noise from earlier? It would be hilarious if actually Mbako was a 2. That's the that's the Galaxy braid stuff there. But no, look, I I I think the biggest thing right now is Trey Gallo has got to play fewer minutes, get him off the floor a little bit more.

He's playing 82 percent, 82 1/2% of available minutes so far that's that is clearly too much. And you know when he's on the floor doesn't need to do quite as much. And I think a lot of that is going to be dependent on can CJ Gunn contribute more along the lines of what we saw yesterday than what we've seen from CJ Gunn in essentially any of the other games this season except the right state game where he's he's putting up shots, he's playing some good defense, he's

getting some. He had four steals yesterday. He's had 7 steals in the last two games. Yeah, he had four steals in the Connecticut game. The problem is he had zero steals in the Louisville and Harvard games. He's he is so feast or famine, he is. He is such a key to this team. Having the flexibility to sit Trey Galloway for a little bit and collect himself and and put him in more strategic spots.

And you know what? He's in the Tamar Bates role right now where it's like you just don't know which one you're going to get right now. And it unfortunately, like I'm happy now we have that because he was up to a up until like last night, it was kind of like he was not even at the point where you knew you'd get a great game out of him. You were always, I was always concerned when he came in just because there hadn't been a lot of production on the court.

You know, I I hope the the the Tamar Bates thing was tough because like he just didn't know what you were going to get. Like this is where if you're CJ, it's like just you've got to find a way to level it off a little bit. Like you can't have games of zeros, but you don't need, you know, 3 threes and four steals every game. Like just find a way to level it out and come in and be

consistent. Yeah, no, it's it's a good point and look I've to the point I was going to make and we can kind of finish off with this, but I I really love thus far what the bench is developing into with with Mike Woodson in the way that he's coached this group. I mean I'm, I am pleasantly shocked at Anthony Walker being as good of a contributor, especially offensively. That is not something that I

foresaw. I don't think anybody foresaw it. You know, right now, I mean, it's early, We're only eight games in. But Anthony Walker's offensive rating is 113, which his highest offensive rating at Miami was 97, and that was two years ago. This is not a guy who has been a consistent contributor in in any of the years that he's played basketball. He's playing, you know, at a lot of minutes.

This year he played a lot of he played his most minutes as a sophomore in that first year after COVID and it didn't really contribute enough to stay on the floor, didn't shoot the ball particularly well. What I'm seeing out of him is, is really fascinating because he is so energetic and he's so athletic and he seems to be picking his spots a lot more. Caleb Banks I think fits into this category.

Banks clearly is still struggling with control issues, but the fact that he's able to contribute offensively at all right now is, is really impressive and he's doing so in a lot more minutes than he was getting last year. I think Peyton Sparks he's he's he's still struggles with his physicality. He reminds me a lot of Larry Richardson in the way that like his body just doesn't quite move

with a fluidity. But he is doing some good work for IUI think especially on the defensive glass and it's allowed IU to get Malik Renew out of there on occasion and just give him a breather. And he hit a hit two free throwers in a row yesterday. Scott, which is which is huge news for him as that's a guy that it, you know he'll probably get fouled quite a bit down the stretch and he's got to start

feeling some confidence there. So that that whole group of guys off the bench and I think you can throw Gabe Cups in even though he's hit. He's basically had to slide into

a starter roll. Like the fact that Indiana has been able to insert Walker or insert Banks in key moments also in the second-half and not lose that much is, you know if this Indiana team ever fully blossoms, If they get a healthy Xavier Johnson, if they get a a more in touch with himself, Trey Galloway, if they get ACJ gun that's actually able to contribute a solid 15 to 20 minutes a game and and put some shots up and hit them, the I really like where the team could

go. It's just it's hard to say for sure that they'll get there. They've got a fascinating test coming up against Auburn, and it's a Auburn team that almost kind of feels tailor made for this Indiana team to play in a lot of ways. But, you know, I don't know. I don't have no clue how they're going to perform on the road or in a neutral court against Auburn. But I love the development that a lot of these guys are getting.

I do think it will pay dividends down the stretch because Woodson seems to be unlocking things in players gradually and that is not something that we're used to seeing on the Indiana bench, at least not over the last 10 to 15 years. Yeah I mean I'll just highlight two of those. I'm I'm also been very impressed with Walker for a guy who you know that Miami team was was pretty loaded so he had a hard time you know finding time to play. But he had a lot of you know 6.0, you know 7.0.

He's been he's had that consistency that you want from a bench player. You know unlike the Tamar Bates type like he's one who just comes in and you're going to get 6-7 eight points out of him. He's not going to make a lot of mistakes. But I I, I've actually been very impressed with Peyton Sparks. You know, came in a guy who had a lot of offensive load at Ball State has really taken a back seat on offense for obvious reasons and and played a defensive role. And like you, yes, he's he's

very physical. He sometimes has a hard time moving, you know can't move laterally as fast as some other people. But what's been really amazing is he plays physical. He plays very physical on

defense. He's not getting into foul trouble, which is like exactly what you want from that position is someone to come in, you know, give renew or give, wear a spell, play physical, give the defense, you know, the other team's big man another look, but not get in foul trouble, you know, And he's not playing a ton of minutes. But last night he played 9 minutes, no fouls, you know, 14 minutes against Louisville, no fouls. And it's not like Peyton Sparks is a wallflower.

I mean, he's out there being physical. He bodies up and he's able to put some physicality in the post without getting foul or without fouling, which I think is a huge. It's a it's so nice to have him where you can put him in and games like last night where you know where is in foul trouble, you know you can put Sparks out there. He's going to play some tough defense but not get himself in foul trouble, which then kind of really puts you in a tough spot where you got to play where with

more than you want to a foul. So I've I've been very happy with what Sparks has been able to provide on the defensive end

from the bench. It's it's going to be interesting to watch how these guys continue to develop cause like you I like this team and I think it's growing and I I think you and I were on it. I don't I don't like them yet I I I like the pieces I that was AI mean I got to say that was a tough watch that Michigan Indiana game was a tough watch it it's a team that I I will I I give them a lot of credit.

As bad as they were in terms of turnovers in the first half they had 10 turnovers in the first half they only had three in the second-half. Now they replaced the turnovers with just like bad shots at times or questionable decision making. They're they're clearly still kind of figuring out how to work as a unit and I'm still

concerned about the defense. But I I there's there's promising signs and I'd rather they gave up twos than threes, which that's kind of how they've switched things around. And offensively, I'd rather they went with the more efficient scoring options rather than try to force things. And so I'm glad that that's all happening.

And they certainly look a lot more together and a lot more coherent as a group than they did in those games that we saw in New York against Connecticut and Louisville where there were times where yours, like had these guys played together before. And that's. That's what I was you. You're right. Because there was a time last night I said to my wife like, I'm is this team fun to watch? I couldn't tell.

There's definitely good pieces, but I guess more succinctly what I was saying, you know the beginning of the year you and I both were on this team is probably going to be different, hopefully better but different in February and March than it is in November and December. And you know the last two games against Maryland and Michigan was the first time. It's like you I I'm starting to see that happen. It's like, oh, this team is growing.

Like I'm seeing this team change from the team we saw in New York. Something definitely changed. It's not all going to be a straight line to you know appreciate the tournament but you know I I'm excited in that it feels like we are seeing this team grow in positive ways to get to that point. Where as you and I said like I, you know, I think this is going to be a much different and hopefully better team in February and it feels like we're starting to see that trajectory happen.

But it's it's not going. To be a straight line and there's two, there's two things, a micro thing and a macro thing. The micro thing is that you know they were AI think a six point underdog to Michigan according to Ken Palm last night and they won and that's that's what Indiana has to do. Indiana right now because they have been so unimpressive in terms of the margin of victory against some really bad teams, including an army team that has been atrocious so far this

season. They have they're going to have to win games that right now the computers say you're not going to win because we don't think you're that good. You know obviously as Indiana gets better they will grow ahead of their computer profile and in the Big 10 I mean you they've got a lot of very winnable home games. They're going to have to pick some games off on the road because they just A, they don't have.

They're not going to have enough of a non conference resume to bolster them beyond the fact that the Big 10 isn't very good this year. But also B, they're going to have some games on the road against teams that the computers don't like, that they're really going to need that to figure out a way to win. I mean they got to play at Minnesota, who the computers don't like, they have to play at Penn State, who the computers don't like. They've got games against both of those teams at home.

Those are all good for padding stats, but you're going to have to pick off one or two other Rd. games. Maryland on the road, you know there's there's other ones out there that you look at. Rutgers on the road, Nebraska on the road. I think those are all games that if Indiana's going to put themselves in a position to get into the tournament and right now it's very early, but they're projecting is just outside the field. You know they can't finish 18 and 13 and 10 and 10.

They've got I, you know, picking up one of these next two games would be almost a certainty that you would need maybe a necessity to pick up one of those two certainly would be great to get both. But I think the thing about this team that gives them a chance, there's two things. A, they're still growing, then they're clearly getting incrementally better in pretty much every game which is not often what happens with IU teams it feels like, But B, they they

they care. They like, they look like they legitimately care about winning these games. And we saw it in the Louisville game, as bad as that game was and you know it, Yes, it took IU switching to a zone at the end, but IU then went out and made the plays that they needed to make to win the game down the stretch. This game last night that, I mean when when Indiana was down late, you know, and left that little run in with about 6 minutes to go. And it's like this doesn't look

like it's going to go very well. And then they did what they needed to do. I mean at at the what was it at the 30? No, sorry. At the IT was 60, two to 60 Michigan with about 6 1/2 minutes left and the the numbers didn't look great for Indiana at that point. And just in terms of win probability, they were at a 28% win probability. And from there you know Indiana did what they needed to do down

the stretch. And I think Indiana's going to be in a lot of games like that this year where they're just going to have to gut out pipe games. They're not going to be fun games. They're going to be stressful games to watch. But I I like the mentality that this team has, and you mentioned, you know, some of the Michigan State, Rutgers, we've seen Rutgers do things like this.

Northwestern does things like this where they just grid out these games and the difference is Indiana's got legitimately a lottery pick or a potential borderline lottery pick playing for them and another guy who'll probably have a long career in the NBA. And they've got another guy who, if he can put together his offensive and defensive game, could be a three and D type of player in the NBA for a while. I mean, they've Got Talent that exceeds how they've played up to

this point. You combine that with some will, which this team seems to be showing. That's where I'm still optimistic about the season, despite the fact that there's times when I want to feel very pessimistic about the season. No, totally fair. I would also think about last night, just to throw a little sand in Michigan's faces. Like, dude, that was barely a road game. Like that crowd sucked.

Like the the shots of the crowd. It's like every every section outside of the student section had at least 40% open seats. It's like there was nobody there. Yeah, I mean it's it's but you know, I'll, I'll say this, I think that happens more often in the Big 10 games than you'd think and. I always had some really bad crowds. Remember seeing on? TVI Use lost at Minnesota when Minnesota's had terrible crowds.

I use the 2012 team lost at Nebraska when Nebraska was not exactly a team that was packing them in, You know, so you're right in as much as it certainly wasn't Mackie Arena. But. It's still a big 10 Rd. win. Totally with you. I'm just it was more just like I was watching that like dude Michigan show up. Yeah, it's it's pretty sad. They're all either. They're all either maybe they're all scouting Alabama. They're the whole the whole university is out scouting.

You know, this is, This is why. This is why the Big 10 needs Indiana, because they care about basketball all season. So anyway, all right, we've gone kind of long. Any final thoughts from you, Scott? No. No, no, no, man, not good. Well, hopefully for those of you who are calling for a podcast, this sufficed we. We as always enjoy chatting with you folks and we will be back with more coming up soon. I'm going. On the road.

The, the, the, the, the doctor GC Roadshow shows up in the South as I'll be down in Atlanta. So hopefully I'll see some of you down there. Be sure to come up and say hi. Got to see a bunch of you folks out in New York and that was a great thrill and looking forward to hopefully seeing Indiana come away with AW there.

And either way, it's nice to see Indiana playing in these types of showcase games in large metropolitan areas where more people might become aware of the brand and maybe it helps with recruiting or whatnot. But yeah, looking forward to that. So we'll be back with that. We got the Crimson Cast Women's Basketball Show coming up later

on this week. Amanda Foster, Kevin Vera going to recap with the ladies have been up to and look forward to the games that they have in the remainder of the month of December. Be sure to check out our friends at Assembly Call and we will be back with more podcasting in the future. Be sure to subscribe to Crimson Cast on Sub Stack. Thanks to our presenting sponsor, Home Field Apparel. For Scott, I'm Galen, this is Crimson Cast. We'll catch you folks on the

flip side. Bring back the Bison. That's all everybody.