You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home Field Apparel. All right, folks, welcome back. Scott here for Crimson Cast. I know Galen often says it's, you know, hoodie season, which is true. And you know Starbucks says it's pumpkin spice latte season. It is. All those things are true. But it is also basketball preview season. So continuing to roll on with more basketball previews. Super excited to have Mike decorcy on today.
You know him from Bing 10 network analyst there. He's also the bracket analyst for Spocks for Fox Sports as well as being the senior writer for Sporting News for the gosh 23 years. Before we get to Mike, do you want to talk about the home network? All of our friends there assembly call doing the work. Check them out. Also as always sponsor of the home network is home field Apparel. Every time I go to their website it's something new to talk about. I talked about it a couple times
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get that 15% off. And without further ado, excited to bring on Mike Decorcy on the podcast to preview value basketball, talk a little Big 10, what it's like covering the Big 10, things like that. So here is Mike Decorsi. All right, so excited to have Mike Decorsi on. Mike, how you doing? Thanks for joining Crimson Cast first time. Yeah, I'm happy to do it. Everything's going well. Doing great and and man, basketball season is coming fast. I know it's it's right around the corner.
I know we were looking. I was looking at my calendar and like I'm going to the the New York Empire games for IU and it's like that's like three or four weeks away. I mean we're getting exhibition games in like a week. It's it's time to go. Let's go. I'm tired of football. So tired of football we had. An ex, You know, we've had some of those scrimmages going on over the last couple of weeks and we had a a public exhibition with Ohio State and Dayton playing on Sunday.
A game that Ohio State was able to win. So it it's it's already going and then we'll play for Rio and goodness, less than two weeks. It's amazing. Yeah. So let's start doing a little Indiana talk and then I kind of want to branch out to some other Big 10 ideas because you you have a great view of the Big 10 as as we've been looking as IU fans, we've been looking at the IU team. I think there's like a a really high ceiling and a really low floor.
And I think it's really hard to tell kind of what's going to be there. I'm not sure anybody knows because there's so many questions. But I'm curious as you view it for the pieces we brought in from what Woodson has done thus far, what do you think is more likely us hitting the ceiling or us, you know, going toward the floor? Well, I think the first thing I would say is that I don't think the floor is that low. I don't think you put that much talent out there and have the
floor be that low. But for those who programs who are accustomed to competing in the NCAA tournament or believe that they should be accustomed, and I think Indiana's history suggests that that although they had a a spell where it was a bit elusive. And the last couple of years have been tournament years and I think Indiana fans generally think that's where they should be every year. Just a question of the good year should be higher higher seeds.
1234, the tough year should be bubble type seeds or or 8 playing an 8-9 game. That's I think it rarely should an IU team in the mind to the fans, and I think it's a fair expectation rarely should an IU team miss. It's probably going to change in the future. As the conference gets larger, the expectations may have to change because when you have 18 teams there's so many more
variables. But for now, with with what's been established and what the league has shown it's capable of doing in terms of procuring bids, I think that a a floor for this team would be. Toughing it out in the NIT and being disappointed and having to find some enthusiasm for that occasion. A young team, which this team is, might in some years say, well, yeah, we'll be good that that we'll we'll go into there and we'll get better and we'll
be really good next year. I mean, Xavier did that from 2022 to 2023. But I think it's a little different with this group because you've got guys that you, even though they're young, wouldn't expect to be around in 25 S That NIT scenario would not be a happy one. But I think that's probably the worst this team is going to do. I think that the the, the midline, if they just if something's go wrong and some things go right.
I think that the midline is you're competing for a. Middle of the seed The middle of the field seed somewhere between 8:00 and 12:00. Yeah, I would I would agree with that. I think that's for most fans. For most IU fans I think we're we're looking at that rationally and like just giving yourself a shot in the tournament. You know you've been you're you're the bracket one of the bracket experts on Fox Sports you've your your bracket matrix is is phenomenal. You've been really good at
projecting the bracket. I'm curious just to get your take on this, something we've harped on a lot on this podcast. You know, I've been really impressed with what Mike Woodson has done with the scheduling at IU. You know, playing, you know, adding, adding better teams, playing Kansas, you know, this year we're playing, you know, Auburn on a neutral site. You know, we're playing in the Empire Classic, the Atlantis Classic next year.
You know, we've talked about it at length on this podcast about how how important those types of games are to your bracket ability, so to speak, at the end of the season and how they don't
always hurt you. But maybe you can speak to it a little bit of how you see Indiana helping themselves with the scheduling that hasn't been done over the last couple of coaches before Woodson. Yeah, I think one of the one of the errors that was made in scheduling for Indiana probably for the decade prior to my getting there was not using the strength of IU, the attraction of Assembly Hall, the the money that comes from being in the Big 10, those those elements to
attract a better. Class of victim so to speak. The, the, the and I I I used that phrase in the in, you know very much in the colloquial sports sense that that you you're buying opponents that you expect to beat and you shouldn't be shopping in the 300 aisle, right? You should be shopping in the 150 aisle. And IU did not do that enough before Mike got here. Mike. One year though and said the heck with both of those, let's just go play Kansas.
And so this year I, you know, I, you know, I now I will say play opening with Florida Gulf Coast. If you think that's nothing then you're not paying close enough attention because Florida Gulf Coast is going to compete, going to compete for its conference championship. I'm not promising they're going to win it, but they're going to be in the mix. Wright State is going to compete for its conference championship, so they have done what I've talked about.
I was joking a little bit about that, but it but they they really have a difficult schedule. It may be too difficult, but it's it it. But if they can succeed, if they can find success against this schedule, then they then then we'll blow past. The 8 to 12 scenario I was talking about and be in the heart of the field, that's that they they they have built a schedule and they you know, Kennesaw State was in the
tournament a year ago. They've lost some players from that team, but they were in the tournament a year ago, won the ace on regular season and conference tournament and pushed Xavier to the very edge of their tournament lives in the first round. So they have done a really smart
job of scheduling the by games. But I I do think that the number of high end non conference games that they've lined up and you know U Conn, Kansas, they'll help get them ready for the Big 10 for sure because they know they have to be really good to compete in those games. But it will be hard for them to to to be confident going into the Big 10.
They'd have to really perform at a really high level in November and December. To get enough wins against what they've constructed for themselves, to be able to go into the Big 10 feeling great about themselves when you talk about coaches shopping in the 300 aisle, which is so, so true. And we saw that unfortunately too many times under the Crean era where he was just scheduling, you know, five or
six sub 300 teams. As you look at like college basketball and you talk to a lot more coaches, like why? Why are some coaches so reluctant to schedule harder games? And that is it. Is it as simple as just like I want to get eight wins and give myself, you know, job security, especially at a place like and maybe, you know, at Indiana where it's like you have that brand, you have the fans who want that.
Like, why do some coaches seem to kind of just kind of hole up and schedule from a perspective of being scared versus going after it? I'll be, I'll be honest Scott, I I I never asked the question why are you scheduling these. So in some cases it it that's not all you as the head coach. In some cases it's what you're what what you're being budgeted. So I don't know whether that was a factor for them because it does cost more to buy Kennesaw State than it costs to buy the
team. That's 300, whoever that would be. It it it because those those teams, can they, they come in expecting to, you know they're going to compete their tails off, but they know that if they lose, it's no big deal to them. It doesn't change who they are. They're going to get into the tournament based on whether they win their, their, their league tournament. That's it's that simple. So it doesn't hurt Kennesaw to
come into IU and lose. So it doesn't matter to them if they're losing to IU. Where if they're losing to Kentucky or Duke or Texas or whomever. So sometimes you have to compete for those games. Financially, if Kentucky is going to pay any. I'm just using round numbers here. Kentucky is going to pay 100, you have to pay 100, and if you're not willing to pay 100, then you're not going to get to
play that team. And I don't know whether that was a factor in. I know in some circumstances it is. I don't know whether. It was for IU and that's why I said Brand, You know the experience of playing in Assembly Hall. There are coaches I've talked to over the years, lots of them, who play at that level and will say they'll go to their players and say, OK, who do you want to play this year?
Who's your dream? Like where like I want to play in Cameron Indoor Stadium, I want to play at Allen Field House. Hey, there got to be some guys out there that are saying I want to play at Assembly Hall in Bloomington. There have to be so. That, you know, so then they go to the school and they say, OK, we'll play you and but sometimes, you know, it costs a little bit of money. Again, I don't know whether that's what held up IU schedules over the years.
It's clear that whatever was happening one way or the other under the previous two administrations is not happening now because they are both really challenging themselves at the high end and they're doing a really good job of bringing in teams like FGCU. And Kennesaw and teams like that that are going to rate in the you know somewhere between 150 and 225 and not damage your your your net rating and other
factors. I'm I'm laughing only the the the idea of like I really want to play into somebody hall like that's not John Calipari like all all everybody else maybe want to Calipari. I don't think he wants any part of that different discussion You you mentioned the other administrations. It's something that's been poking around in my head as I've been doing some of these previews. I I really wanted to ask you this because you've been around basketball long enough.
I'm really curious. I I don't want to dig into the Archie air Archie Miller era too much but I'm curious with this. You know when I you hired Archie Miller he was I I've said it before he was probably you know him or Chris Holtman was the number one pick that that cycle and sometimes you it's a different cycle. But like everything about what Archie did at Dayton should have worked at a bigger school like Indiana like his teams played hard. They played really solid defense.
You know, I know, baby, with the pack line, maybe it's not the best system for college basketball today. But you you see this where a guy has like everything, right at a mid, mid major and then he goes to a major college and it should just be all right. We're going to pour gas in the fire and it's going to work. And then it just doesn't. And it's like I obviously Archie didn't work.
I'm not trying to rehash that. I'm just curious as someone who's been around basketball long enough, what is like how? How come some people make that fit and some people don't? Or is it just simple as like just, you know, that's why some guys make the NBA and some guys don't? It's just it's odd when guys have the profile. We're like, this really should work at the next level, and then
it just doesn't. Well, there are a couple things about Arch is higher that you know, Arch is a very, you know, his brother is a much more gregarious person. Sean is much more comfortable in the salesman role. Sean's Arch is a Arch is someone that he gets into a living room with somebody and. Does the private stuff very well. He and he showed that one of the things that had not been working at IU for the previous four or five years was not doing well with Indiana kids.
And there a couple of things I look at. Arch is unlucky in a lot of ways. First of all, they've had they had injuries at times that that diminished them. Second of all. There was the COVID, which they were probably going to make the tournament and that never happened because of the the absence of the tournament. And the third thing is I used to won that B 10 tournament and in my mind they won the last game in that tournament. Sorry, that's the only thing.
We put a banner up in Assembly Hall for that. And I think the last thing is that he got into Indiana and started to protect the borders pretty well in terms of the prospects at a time when. It's a little bit of a dip. There was still R5 star guy and there was Trace who was a program legend and he got them both.
But there weren't a lot of guys, you know, right before that there were like 5 five star guys in one year or five 4-5 top 50 guys in one year that he didn't ever have a year like that. So that when he did protect the borders, well, it worked, for not only, you know. Doing the recruiting that people wanted to see, but also what would make the Hoosiers
significantly better. Look, he he left some players that have helped the program and the the most obvious example that is Trey Galloway. Trey has been a a warrior, a program guy, a facilitator, A-Team guy. He's everything you'd want, but you'd want that guy to be the 4th or 5th contributor from a recruiting class. And not the guy who now stands as the most significant contributor from a recruiting class.
Yeah, no, that makes total sense looking at current coaches as you view it. How would you kind of grade Woodson's tenure thus far at at Bloomington in 2 1/2 years? I think he's done everything that he needed that he he that he needed to do to make the to put the program on the track that. People want first of all, it helps that he comes in with the Bob Knight stamp of approval. So a lot of the bitterness that was in place subsequent to
September 2000 is now gone. I mean it's it's brought the program back around to where the people who were still angry about what happened then haven't have less reason to be angry about it now because because Mike is. You know he's an alum. He's an all time great. He's a night guy etcetera, so he's got all of that. He got the team back to the tournament twice the second, the
first experience was not great. I don't put that all on him because they won a really tough first round game in the in the in Dayton and then they got shipped to like. Siberia to play the second game, It wasn't fair. Like 40 hours you go from Dayton to Portland. There's like no flights, yeah. One of the things that I do and do in putting together the bracket, and that was one of the brackets that I was able to do and I was pretty, pretty successful in matching the committee generally.
But there were opportunities to put that game, to put IU reasonably close to Dayton, a flight that wouldn't be. Exhausting. I I I think the committee needs to do better at that. I completely agree.
And if they're going to lock those games in at Dayton, I've always said like then just give those Dayton teams a spot in the Midwest. Like just give them a room where they're going to Pittsburgh or Houston or just like to to have them go Dayton. And like I think for IU is like Dayton, you know on two days notice you're going to Dayton and you're going to Portland. It's it's absurd like no team and I think there was another team Rutgers was in the same
boat they were also in that I think that same final first four and they went got shipped out like San Diego and it's just like it's like come on like you're you're a professional sport basically. I know you the NCAA doesn't want to be, but you are like treat it, treat these. Give these guys a shot. Yeah, whether you're a pro sport or not, it's a it's a competition. You got to make it fair and they're and they and that I I in
my final bracket. And I don't have it in front of me or whatever, but I know that I accommodated the first four teams by putting them reasonably close to home. When I do my first four, the only times I ship a team to the West is if they happen to reside in the West. So they're basically going home and then they can just bust over wherever they are. Putting IU on a plane to Portland was egregious. It was one. It was a significant failure on the committee that year.
I showed with my final bracket and I don't have all the tools they have, So if I can do it. They can do it and that was a disappointment. So there's that. And then last year would like to see them do a little bit better in the Miami game, but they've got in. They won their first round game. So they they've done what they needed to do to get the program back in the right direction. And then they've recruited really well, whether it's transfer Portal getting Khalil Ware.
Whether it's the, you know, the significant addition of Mackenzie and Baco, I know this wasn't the best weekend for him. But still to be able to go back into that when he did committed and say hey, come to IU and they were. Or the five star guys that they got a year ago, which Malik Renew is still there. And then what they're bringing in next year already, what they've already gotten committed to the 2024 class. I think he's done everything to get it right, in the right direction.
And then the I think this year they want to, they want to do what I said before, what the fans expect, what you'll see them projected to be on various brackets or in top 20 fives or conference projections or whatever all come around the same ballpark. So and then next year will be a big year to have a big year. It some of it's going to depend on who will remain and who won't, but it'll be a big year for them to have a big year. Yeah, I agree.
I think this is kind of a stepping stone year and all these previews it's kind of like this is the year I think we just have to continue and stay in the tournament. You know you mentioned like last year it while it was a disappointment I, I, I reflect back on last year and you know you're a protected seed you're you're on the four line. You're in the tournament and not you know at some point you have to have success, but it's also like it's just you you met a bad
a bad matchup. Like Miami was a hot team. It's not like they were they you know they went to the final Four like that was a good team. You met the wrong matchup. I think the trouble with Indiana has been you just haven't had enough shots at the at the table, so to speak. It's like you only were a protected seed. That was the first time in like, you know, 15 years you've been a
protected seed. Where as you look at teams like, you know, Kansas, Kentucky, where we're trying to get to where they're just doing that year after year after year and it's like. Not that you've just got to wait for luck, but if you give yourself enough opportunities, the bracket will break, you're going to play the right team,
you'll be the hot team. So I look at it like I don't see them being a protected seed this year, but give yourself a shot getting that 678 line and then who knows, maybe you you get a, you get a favorable match up. But yeah, that's how I look at this as well when you look at Woodson. You know what do you think he the one thing you would say he needs to improve on whether it's on the court or recruiting?
Like is there an area where you're like if Woodson did this, Indiana could even unlock to the next level. Well, you know I, I, I, I don't think that he's left anything undone in recruiting. I mean they they've been very successful in in all various ways.
As I mentioned you you look at this year's team and you have a lot of success in a lot of areas whether it's the transfer portal with Ware, whether it's that late get with Imbaco which was a significant win for them when you know no one knew that no one knew it, they knew at some point but no one knew I don't know December, January that all of a sudden there's going to be a 5 star guy that was available in April.
So there's that and then Renew was a win in the the recruiting class so you you they he's shown success in all the venues on the floor. They beat, they swept Purdue last year which was by far the best team in the Big 10, won both championships. So they haven't shown any inability to step up to the biggest challenges.
They they had bad luck last year with injury with with with Trace getting hurt in December. That probably cost them some development time and some seed time but even from that they were able to bounce back. So I I think that they've done
really well. I obviously what the next challenge for him is you know we talk about you know you've got three five star guys on this team and a senior, 5th year senior point guard and we are mitigating the expectations for that because there's still some questions to be answered about those guys and Baco just has to get out there and be healthy and I think he's going to have a significant year.
Where is a different kind of player Can you take, can you find a system that that amplifies what he does well and sort of shoves to the side what he maybe isn't the best at And then renew, can you take him from a really good contributor?
I mean and look the fact that Malik Renew is back at Indiana for his sophomore year after he played it as basically as a reserve his entire freshman year, that's a win because there's a lot of programs where he did just said I know the guy's an all American but you played him instead of me. I'm a 5 star guy that's. A great point. Yeah. I'm going to market or something. Yeah, And it's so.
But now you got to get something out of Malik and you've got to put him in positions where he can excel because he committed to you as, you know, as a freshman and then again as a sophomore. So you've got to find a way to make him have a significant sophomore year. Now what that means numerically, statistically, all that is mixed into however they're going to build their attack.
But he's got to be a baller, and that's somewhat on Malik, showing up and practicing and playing hard and listening to what they're asking of him, all that. I think that he's going to do that. So you also have to give him the opportunities to do that. Now again, that doesn't mean he's got to get 15 shots a game, but he's got to be out and put in positions to influence success. I suspect he will be, but again,
we've got to see that. Yeah it's you know you're you were at I think at the Cincinnati Enquirer during the kind of the Bob Knight firing I was. I was in college at that time. I've always, you know, I always kind of took the approach of I wanted IU to hire the best coach. Like I didn't want necessarily whenever we had coaching searches like I don't want an IU guy, I I I do or I just I want the best person. I don't want to go ahead and limit it.
You know you mentioned kind of how Woodson has brought things back, which he really has. It's. It's interesting, you also being a Midwest guy, kind of knowing the Indiana soup and every university, every fan base thinks they're special and obviously we do too. But it's it is, it is really interesting seeing what Woodson has done and kind of see it's like, wow, this really was important. Like it was important to bring
it back and it has healed. Like even just a couple days ago that, you know, IU released a video with Pat Knight where he's talking just, you know, telling Bob Knight stories and it's like he's like we we feel welcome again and Brian Evans is there and it's just like. You didn't fully realize how important it was and how needed it was, and it does. It really feels like Woodson is the right person at the right
time, at least as an IU fan. Well, I mean, I think you look at Kelvin, his experience as an example of how that wound impacted, impacted the program because at the end of the day what Kelvin did. Was nothing. Nothing. I know well, and honestly, Indiana, I mean, it's a whole other pod like Indiana, we punish ourselves way more than NCAA ever did. I mean, the NCAA might have done more had we not done as much, but you look at it, it was all just self flogging.
Like Indiana just crushed ourselves. Whereas it's galling when you look at like Kansas who's like under FBI investigation. People are getting arrested and they're just like, yeah, whatever, we're just going to move on. And it's like, anyway, sorry, total side note, but no, but I mean, that's really the core of this because that was a product of that wound, that look, I think Kelvin's one of the best coaches in college basketball and I really like him. He's somebody that I've always
gotten along great with. But he was not the right person to hire at that time. His program at OU Oklahoma was under, well, it wasn't under investigation. It was in the system and about to have a a finding when they hired. You couldn't do that because of what happened in 2000 if you couldn't do it and they did it anyway and they paid the price for that when he got a couple of parking tickets, so to speak. And so that's why it is been
beneficial. I'm not saying it was essential, but it was beneficial to bring it back around and and hire Mike, who was eminently qualified, 30 years in the NBA as a coach, a decade plus as a player, extraordinarily qualified to do this. And the concern about recruiting, I'll be honest with you, I thought at the time it
was overblown. Because in today's day and age, you just have to be willing to do the work and, and and that doesn't necessarily mean you got to be on the road 24 hours a day or whatever. You got to be willing to do what a head coach is required to do, which is when it when your assistant says you need to see this kid, he's playing in the back aux gym at 4:00, You need to be there wearing your IU shirt. That's. And then OK, we need to go on an unofficial.
You know, we need to go on a home visit to see these players. You got to be willing to do that. It's and it helps if you're willing to do the old Roy Williams thing, which was like I remember there in the middle to early 2000s, I wanted to do a project where I went with Roy on one of those kinds of I go, I do practice, I get on a private plane, I go watch Marvin Williams play in Seattle and I go home. He did that. Now you don't have to do that. It helps, but you don't have to.
But that's why he was Roy. But you have to be willing to do her and you have to hire the assistants who can put you into those positions. Clearly they've they've gotten guys on their staff who can, who can line up the five stars for you to knock them down so to speak for you to close and he's done the job in closing. So I I I thought that that that was probably a bit overblown but that he should be able to coach in the Big 10 since he coached in the NBA for 30 years.
So it's worked out really well and there's, as we all know, there's still some, there's still some success out there that they've not yet gotten to, but they are in position over these next two seasons to get there. I I agree and I I agree with you on the recruiting piece. You know he's he's starting you know it, it takes time. Some of these recruitments, you know, guys are starting you know 7th, 8th, 9th grade there's going, you know, so it's tough
to get those longer battles. But you know, the thing that's been impressive to me in a good way is, you know, with the portal and just how fluid that situation is. I look at, you know, what IU has done and what Woodson has done. They've been one of the more successful teams in the portal based on, you know, what they have to offer and what they're
getting. You get where you get Imbaco in the portal and it's like you you realize like, Oh yeah, like that's way more like free agency, which Woodson dealt with for 30 years in the NBA. Whereas, you know, I, I think it's not catching a lot of other coaches off guard, but you definitely feel the bristling from a lot of their coaches. Like, man, I hate this Portal thing and it's like, it feels
like. Woodson's embracing it and now you have to you have to do it with other you also, you know getting the the, the, the recruits as freshmen also helps me starting to show that too. So I I agree with you. I thought it was always kind of a little bit unfair to like oh man, can this guy even recruit and do it.
It's like, no, he can I think. I think the way the game is changing is actually moving more towards some of his skill set, a Fairpoint. You know I I think that they have done a very good job as well of keeping players and they've lost some transfers over the years over his time. But it's not been it's never been a mass exodus.
They've kept Anthony Leal for instance they you know I mentioned before about Trey, look if Trey weren't an IU guy and I think there's a there's two elements Trey understands the value of of what being an IU guy can can do for him. That's first. Second of all, the program has
to understand that. And they have reflected that even though they didn't recruit him, they've understood one, what he means on the floor, but also what he can mean by remaining at IU and committing to this staff as well as to the IU. You know, the broader IU experience, whether it's within Assembly Hall or all throughout Bloomington, he's committed to all of that. And so you have to value that and so both sides have.
And that's, you know, that's an element again of of being a successful college coach in 2023 is knowing who fits that profile, knowing why it matters, knowing why you're not the program you want to be. If you can't keep Trey Galloway as a as a happy, committed, lifetime Hoosier, if you can't get him to do that, then you're you're then there's then there is an element of your resume that's missing. Yeah. In the time we have left, you
don't mind. I want to scale back and unless you have any other IU basketball thoughts for this season, I want to scale back and just ask you some larger Big 10 questions because you part of the Big 10 network, one of the studio analysts. The first question is just when you're on the air talking throughout the season, which fan base gives you the most pushback? When whenever you say things like you know, you know, you mentioned things like is it Illinois?
I'm just it could be Indiana take us. We're we're a neutral party. I'm just, I'm curious, when you get on social media after a broadcast, is there a fan base that's like always, always picking at you? I will say, Scott, and this is, you know, I don't know, I'm not bragging or whatever, but I don't get a lot of pushback.
I don't. I there might be if I if I slip and make a factual error or if I slip and say something that maybe is like a little bit off, you know, in terms of an opinion that's presented and maybe I haven't factored in everything that I should have. If I miss, like if I say so and so is the best point guard in the league and for a second the actual best point guard in the league slipped my mind. You know I might get some pushback on something like that.
But I think the fan base has been the Big 10 at large has been really accepting of what I present and you know this is my 15th season and the the amount of times that I've gotten reamed is very small. I get I get raved a lot more for my bracket picks that I get a lot more of that then but the the Big 10 Network audience has been phenomenal to me. I. Mean. That would have been a perfect spot to say Purdue. Purdue fans are horrible. But I mean, yeah, I get you.
You could have said that. No, it's it's funny. I heard this on another podcast. I think it was like Ryan Rasilla, but he was talking about, you know, just as you talk about the bracket and like they're doing the bracket show with Dick Vitale. Is on ESPN doing with Dick Vitale. And you know Vitale who I love, was always just like, you know, oh man, you got to put, you know North Carolina State they got to make it. Oh, Villanova, how can you leave him out?
And like they they cut to break and I think it was like Bob Lee or someone was like Dick someone's got to be cut. Like they can't all make it like there's only 64 teams. Anyway, just as you say that it reminds me of that when you have these shows and it's like, oh man, you got to put that, you got to be in there. It's like there is there is a cut line at some point. My favorite example of pushback, the my favorite ever, was the literal I I started doing this
in the 20/19/20 season. That's when Fox hired me to do the brackets. So my very first bracket I had Butler as a three seed I think instead of like A1 or A2. And that and Butler fans just crushed me. It was amazing and I'm like my goodness like because remember like we don't. I don't do. I do. I'm doing 1 preseason bracket this year for Fox. They asked if I would and so I'm doing it. But we generally don't start
until we have a body of work. So that year we waited until the until January. This year I'll start the last week of December with the regular brackets. And so we're talking about like they had like six weeks of of of data and they just crushed me and I'm like that. And it was amazing to me because it was like the first time I ever put my toe in the water and the shark came and ripped my foot right off. Of all fan base to Butler they had a good run. Here's I'll I'll ask and you can
be be careful with your answer. I'm not trying to get you in hot water or anything but with Big 10 expansion because you're a member of the the Big 10 network. But I'm just, I'm curious, you know everything's been focused on football. We know there's four teams coming next year. I'm curious, as a basketball guy, myself included, how do you think this is going to affect basketball in the sense that, like, I've been talking to some friends and it's like, you realize, like there's going to
be 18 teams next year. We only play 20 Big 10 games right now. Like, that's if you're going to play everybody, you're going to play, you know, two games. Like if, if you're IU, like, you play Purdue twice, you play Michigan twice, you play everybody else once. Like that kind of sucks like. I'm just, and again, I'm not asking you to tell me like what you know, Like no one said, I'm just, I'm curious as a fan of Big 10, like how how do you see them reconciling this for basketball?
Because as I look at it, it's like something's got to give. Because 20 games for 18 teams, it doesn't make a ton of sense. Well there is discussion buzz I guess because I haven't asked anybody about this because I I, I I'm I'm not sure whether this is the approach to take but there is a discussion about upping the number of league games I if you do that see to me. To me I'm not sure whether that's the right approach for a couple of reasons.
One you still have 8. Like if you go to 22 games, how much? You're still not seeing that much cross action between your your. 14 teams once, Yeah, Yeah. So it doesn't change it that much, but it does change the opportunity for you to say hey everybody, we're better than everybody which they've done over the last three years and how do you do that? You do that in non conference play. It's the only way to do that.
And so if you if you have to accomplish both of those, up the number of games and still establish we're better than you and that's why we should get X number of tournament bids. If you have to do both of those do you sacrifice by games. So that makes it that puts a load on your players and makes it pretty heavy because they lose. Though believe me, I still I I I believe in this theory very
strongly. And it's still just a theory because we don't have enough data, but we have enough data to support the theory not being nonsense. And that is the deepest conferences don't do well in the NCAA's. They just don't do as well. If you look back over time, the leagues that have gotten 9 members or eight members into the tournament don't perform as well as those that get five or six.
Because at the end of the day, what helps those teams succeed is they haven't had to sweat every conference game. They got, they know. They knew. Like if you were in the ACC last year, my goodness, you knew. If you were playing at home and you were playing the bottom teams in your league, all you had to do was go out there and throw AC plus effort out there and you were going to win. If you were Duke, say mean, that's all you had to do.
Or if you were Virginia, if you threw out AC plus effort, we're good. But you throw out AC plus effort in any Big 10 game except maybe Minnesota at home last year you're loose simple you lose and that's there's there's nobody in the league that's not beating AC plus effort and so that's the problem and and so I I I really do wonder about whether or not adding more to the to that burden is is going to be helpful
to the league in the long run. They they are the according to Adam Sigouria, my friend who's a freelance writer in New York, works for thenewjersey.com papers as well as does his own blog and work writes for Forbes as well. He tweeted out today that that the Gavin games are dead and that's between 2 leagues that are both Fox Sports First
contractees. So if that series can't survive the expansion then you know what other, you know how many non conference games are you going to be able to play. So I, I, I'm, I'm very curious about where that leads us, where you know where we go with that. And then of course there's the conference tournament. Do you take all 18? Do you take 16 do? You you know that it's a it's a big question for them to answer because nobody's ever had to do
18 before. We've had 16 in a couple of different leagues and obviously the Big 10's been navigating 14 for a while now, but nobody's ever done 18 and I'll be very curious to see where they take that. That's a great. I didn't even thought about that. No, it's it's a really, it's an interesting point about you know the the deeper the league which the Big 10's going to be even more deep next year you know not doing well in the tournament that's.
That's a trope. I didn't want to bring it up. It's like it every year we kind of get into this like why can't the Big 10 do better in the NCAA tournament? And I I always waffle back and forth on that because on one hand it's like it's a problem because it we haven't won since Michigan State. Maryland doesn't count. They were not part of the Big 10 at that time. It's it's going to be really funny though.
I've I've joked like if USC or UCLA wins the NCAA tournament this year and then it's like, oh the Big 10 broke their streak. Like we'll get them before that happens. It's like it hasn't happened but on the flip side it's like I I it's been a while so I put all the numbers together like the Big 10 has put a good number of teams in the final four. It's not like we're we're not you know there's a couple years where it doesn't happen but like Michigan State has been to the
Final four. Ohio State like you you've you've had a lot of shots and not that it's like a crapshoot, but kind of like you get to the final four and then it's a little bit kind of all bets are off. It's like match up dependent on how things go. And so it's not like we haven't had any teams in the final four
over the last couple years. I I think we've had more than like the PAC 12. And so it it is but it's going to be really interesting to see and as I look at like I don't it's a tough solution because you're right, you have the tournament, the the Big 10 tournament to worry about.
If you expand the Big 10 to like 20/24/26 games, you're now bumping into like our all of those pre season tournaments like the NIT or the Atlantis or the you know you mentioned the gavity, like the Empire games, like all those November tournaments. Are they going to get compressed then if you get rid of those, like, then if you're a coach like at some point you do want to play some cupcake games, like, how does that affect some of those early?
I don't know how it all fits in. You know, I I want to say there are. Those are two different problems about tournament performance. The the the non champion thing has been in existence since 2000, 2002 if you want to stretch it. But like it's not like Maryland won in 2010. Even if you take it, it doesn't change the math. That two years? Yeah, Yeah. So that's been in existence. But during that time, from 2001 to 2019, the Big 10 got more Final Four teams than just about anybody.
I think maybe the ACC did or they had the most it's it's right there but no champion. But then 21/22/23 they haven't done well in the tournament you've you've lost your number one seed on the first day your your your your your conference conference tournament champion on the on the 1st round each of the last two years you haven't had a final four team in any of
those three years. You've I don't know that there been an elite eight team in that three years there might have been one but there were no final fours. So that performance I think is I put that down to that grind that that at least some element of it to that grind. The absence of a champion, some of it's just been bad luck. I mean, Michigan should have won in 2013.
One bad call changes the game. They did fail to block out some offensive rebounding that Louisville was able to do, but they played well enough to win it. They just, you know, one bad call and maybe missing a couple of shots and there and and they did. They don't get it, you know, but they've been in position a few times to be right there. Other years, like 2009, Michigan State's in the title game, but they are not on the same floor
basically as that Carolina team. Same thing in 18 with Michigan Having the great year they had gets to the final game, but they're not in that Villanova team's class and you can see why now. They weren't in that Villanova team's class and that again goes to what really wins championships in the NCAA Tournament. The exception that we have to that rule is IU 1987. That's the last time that you had a champion that didn't, that didn't have a first round pick on its roster in its rotation
last time. We're now well past 30 years on that. There have been Big 10 teams that didn't have that guy, and I believe that that Michigan team might have been one of them. They might have had one, but they didn't have the level of talent that that Villanova had with Jalen Brunson, Mikhail Bridges, Dante Devincenzo.
They didn't have the level. So that's really been the dividing line between being really a tremendous college basketball conference, which the Big 10 has been for the last 22 years, and having either a champion or, in the last three years, some level of deep runs. Yeah, I'll get you out of here on this. You you've been covering basketball for a while and a good very positive, and you're part of the Basketball Writers Hall of Fame over that time. You mentioned a good Roy Williams story.
Who, who's one of your favorite coaches to cover and maybe a story to go along with it. Just having been around all those years, like just who who do you like? Who do you like seeing in the locker room and maybe a story to go with it? Well, there there's so many that I could say. And that's one of the reasons, Scott, why I like covering college basketball. I covered college football at the start of my career.
I did nine seasons covering Penn State football, another 5 covering the SEC or 4 covering the SEC when I was in Memphis. I don't miss it. I like college football. I like watching it, but I don't like dealing with football coaches like I like dealing with basketball coach. Is it? Is it because football coaches are a little too, like mercurial or king like or they're very king, like very military like basketball coaches are just
guys? Yes. You know I mean whether it's Bill Self or or Mike Bray or Tom Izzo they're guys that you could see yourself having lunch with having a a beverage with it. It's just not the same and and and and that's why I like it so much but I'd probably single out Schefsky. I was able to build a really good relationship with Mike Schefsky.
The very few writers were able to have and you know he was always really kind to me and and he you know opened his his office to me. I was I I I got a one-on-one with him at the start of his last year in the business and I wrote a big long series of articles and I'll tell I've got I've got a few scores but I'll tell a funny one about him. Don't remember what year was. It was sometime in the early through 2000s. He He wrote a book.
He's written several but one of the books he wrote I can't even remember which one it was. They had a launch party so to speak during one of the events that took place in New York. Whether it was like preseason NIT or the champion that was pre Champions Classic. It was some some double header or whatever that I went to in New York and they had this launch party at the 21 club which I'd never been to, been to New York a ton, I'd never been there. So that was pretty cool to be able to go.
There was a very famous place when I was growing up and they had, I don't know, 6 to 8 round tables and that were there. And he gave a speech, talk or whatever. And then after that he went around to each table and interacted with everybody there. And I took my wife to this event because she came. We like to go to New York, we like Broadway, we like to shop up there. So we probably go there almost once a year. And so we used that as a chance to make our trip to New York at
the same time as I cover a game. So she came with me to the luncheon and she was sitting next to me and. Oh, no, Mike, I lost you. OK, so where do you want me to? Do you want me? To start, no, I was like, that was gross, wildest cut. I'll, I'll edit it back if I know you were talking about how, like you're there with your wife and then you know she's, she's with you and he's walking around to the table. And then yeah, you're just like you're froze like, oh, what happened?
Like what happened with Chesky and your wife. So go ahead. So he's so he walks around. He talks to each table, he comes to our table. We're in the back. And I I shook his hand. I said hi and I didn't know him as well at this point. I mean this is this is early 2000s. I had only met him for the first time at the Final Four in 2001. When they want it with Battier and J Will and. And that's a UConn team, Yeah. So I didn't know him as well
then. And he comes up and he shakes my hand and he knows who I am, but I don't, I don't know him great. And he shakes my hand and I say hi. And I introduced my wife and I said this is my wife Deb. And he said he shakes her hand and he looks at her right in the eye and he says, what'd you do, lose a bet that was his. That was his reasoning for why she would possibly marry me.
So that is so I I always get a big kick out of that that he, you know that he was so quick putting that one together. That's great. No Coach K that's I think that's that's a good one he's he he was around a while and was was obviously a fantastic college coach. So well, hey Mike, I I sincerely appreciate you hopping on. Definitely catch Mike on Big 10 Network Fox Sports and you know no fan base has been bad to him yet.
So IU fans be good to him this year and let's let's let Purdue be the be the pain in his rear this season. My thanks again to Mike Decorcy for joining us. Great conversation and for all of you out there, thank you. We will have continue to have more preview podcast, a little bit of football this weekend, but we'll continue with our basketball preview next week. Got a couple more fun guests lined up. So appreciate you guys tuning with us and it's right around the corner.
It's almost basketball time. So this is Scott for Crimson cast signing off.