Hi folks, welcome back to Crimson cash. We are in Woodson day, one aaww, woody day, one coach Woody, is our coach Scott here with you and I'm breaking. I feel like I'm breaking podcast protocol. I feel really bad about this. I'm super excited to have him on. Think it's first time we've done 121. I have Andy bottoms from assembly call, but Andy, you've not been on assembly call yet. So I feel like I'm stealing your thunder. So I'm happy to hold this for a couple days if you want to wait.
And then we can have you on assembly call and then you can make this your your part do or something. Now you're good. We don't think we have anything else planned. I think Jared's working on something for after the women's game tonight, so I'll probably hop on for that a little bit. But, you know, no need to hold it. It was, it was funny. We had scheduled this ahead ahead of time and I was going to talk about that. My wife was joking about like, whoa. When are they going to have you
on? They've had everyone else on. And I told her, I said, you know, it's always good to really find out where you stand. But now this is like a, you know, breaking new ground and I didn't have a chance to be able to get on the show yesterday. So it all it all. It all evens itself out. I got a plan, man. You may think I'm crazy. I know what I'm doing. I was saving you for the best day, I emailed. All you guys the same time. It's your schedule was tougher
to get in line with know. It's funny yesterday gay. I feel like the, the hiring overtook my life because yesterday, Galen and I did like an 85 Minute Podcast. And then immediately like an hour later, they news announcement, I just protect others like shit. All right, let's get on. Like it was such a, my wife, like sorry, but all day and they spent doing podcast. I was probably going to play Warfare anyway with some friends. So it's not like I was going to
probably be a good husband. But, yeah, I spent all day podcasting, on Woodson yesterday. So I was my, my wife and older daughter out of town for soccer and I was home with my younger daughter and we were just hanging out in the afternoon. We're like playing a board game and I saw this stuff's are coming off my phone. And she was like, it's your turn, it's your turn.
I was like just one second. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on. So, but I did, I did, at least not not abandon her completely and hop on the assembly call, while we were doing that. So, that was really why I couldn't get on and do that then. So I was at least like a reasonably good father except for like the 10 minutes where I was like I just want to read whatever is going on here. So we're good. Good Perry what board game we're playing life.
So I ended up losing to so it's you know, it's not even working but no one of my neighbors started playing sorry with this. It's we've been into that and sorry is a underrated game but I like life to agree. Yeah. My younger daughter is a big game person. So we usually, usually go through quite a few. All right. Yeah. Monopoly Juniors. Also nice. You can bang was out in like 15 minutes. All right. Well anyway board game podcast. Time is over. Let's talk.
We have a new. I you coach we have Coach. Mike Woodson was announced today in a press conference. We've had some time to think about it. I've had some time to kind of digest and recenter. Some of my thoughts. Listen to some of the responses from the IU. You podcast fear. But Andy, tell us your thoughts. What was your thoughts yesterday? Where are you at today? If you had your thoughts change, like how are you feeling about the the era so far? Yeah, it's interesting.
Because when his name first came up, I my reaction was probably like a lot of other people's of being a bit underwhelmed, I think framing everything. Once the Stevens stuff died down probably would have heard really any candidate. So I don't think that, I don't think that helped Jared put some stuff together about, you know, maybe this might not be As crazy as people think and written up some stuff about that which I
think he's since since tweeted. I guess I tend to come down on the side of a couple things, one, after all of it, like I'm a fan first. So I'm going to talk myself into virtually anything, no matter what. Because to me, there's not a lot of fun to be had in being skeptical of it from day, one and and their parts to have questions about and I'm sure we'll we'll get into those and like how that part of its going to work.
But I think there are definitely arguments to be made that it can it can work and it's it's interesting at the very least in a way that you know some of the other hires may not have been. And then the the other part of that is I think you guys have mentioned this. A lot of people have it's on the heels of the you know, quote unquote can't-miss guy, missing
for four straight years. I find it really hard to then follow along the trail of people who are like well this is the dumbest thing anyone's ever done. This is a This is a failure. I can't believe this is you, they had this is never going to work. So I just the reality is like, we don't know and that was end up. I think those were the couple things that I ended up like retweeting yesterday from some people is like, you legitimately don't know.
I can go find NBA people who think it's great. I think there was like some David Aldridge quotes that he had out yesterday about you know about him, you can go find stuff to support whatever you want, but the reality is like there's so many of these coaches that have seemed like, you know, can't miss things that haven't worked. Act out both at IU and other places and there's other guys that people have been skeptical about.
You know everybody was bagging on Goodman for the like oh here's your piece when you said you want Howard was a risk that wasn't going to work. Well that's going pretty well. So you know, I just don't know and that's not to single him
out. A lot of people have made those mistakes so so to me I'm trying not to get sucked into whatever everybody thinks is going to going to work and try to just take it at face value and see what happens and the reality wins and losses will matter a lot of the stuff now is like window dressing. And you can pick your staff and do all those things. But when when push comes to shove, when games actually start, is this team? Look better prepared. Is this team play more together?
Does this seem Play Harder They, you know, do those things happen. That's ultimately what matters. And unfortunately, we're not going to know that for a while. So we can fill in the gaps with speculation until then about whether it will work or not. Yeah, I know a lot of good stuff there. A lot to unpack, I think a lot of the same feelings that I had, you know, I agree. It's it's tough because I bought into the Archie thing and there's so much, you know, National positive media.
Like this was the good higher and it felt like, all right, we got the hot young coach. Like we did exactly what you're supposed to do. We did what all these other programs do and then it's like, yeah, I remember that. I little Indiana State game and then I cop, I'm not picking on you guys at all. I hope of the Assembly Hall like what the hell happened? It's like, all right. Let's pack line defense, it's going to happen.
It's kind of like, all right, like let's not look over there but like just, you know, this is the right higher, it's good. And then like there's IPFW and I remember the second year with, you know, That Romeo year it's like what is going on? Why are we not better than this? But the results on the court or kind of what ended up really changing my mind.
And that's where I'm trying to be very pragmatic at this point but also just realizing that you know yeah this isn't if you ask me three or four days ago, Woodson wasn't one of my top candidates and this isn't the answer that. It's like I wanted if you would have asked me two or three days ago that said, I'm like you, I'm gonna find the Is it as I think there's a lot of ways you can spin this. And I think in the end, it's kind of a cop-out answer.
But it's true, because I think we've all been burned by kind of that Archie experience that it's like, look how this team looks in the fall when they play their first five or six games and how they look the next two years. Like that's really going to answer the question here and you know, we're at a point where it's kind of like you got to show us but if there's wins and they look good it's right because I just talking to a friend and it's kind of like what's the bar?
And it's like I think for me I'm happy to hear your answer for me. It's like I think over the next two years Years if we could make one tournament and maybe beat Purdue once I'm happy. And that's a crazy low bar. You know, and I would say over the next four years, we got to make the tournament three times and I don't think that's asking too much and to me that's the bar and if we can get there this
was a great hire in my mind. Yeah, I think it's an opportunity to edit at a minimum, get things back going in the right direction versus where they were before and that and that's where you know people can bag on. Oh you went and got you pay 10 million dollars to get rid of Archie Miller you did whatever like no one has painted the picture for me of how exactly was this going to turn around and why would it have in any way? Been the right move to keep him. So all the stuff about, do you
pay 10 million dollars? You ended up with Mike Woodson? Like next year was not going to be good and To pretend that some of these guys are in the transfer portal, right now, wouldn't have been in there. Anyway, is equally silly, which is, you know, these other, oh well I use not even going to have a team. Look at all these guys in a transfer portal. I mean, the list of guys who look like they were having a hell of a time out there toward
the end of last season. Look, like they really had a passion for playing for their coach, was, was pretty short. So I'm not really, I'm not really, I'm not really buying into that either. And so that's obviously the first thing Woodson's going to be tasked with. But I think you're, you know, I think what you said is is fair you'd like To see progress and getting the term.
I think, once in the next couple of years, would be reasonable and with the transfer portal and system the way that it is right now, if he can come in and get guys on staff that are going to help make this even more compelling to recruits. And and by recruits, I mean, both high school kids, and people in the transfer portal, you've seen guys, be able to turn things pretty quickly, whether he's able to do that or
not. We truly have no idea, but the ability To get your talent level in a place to make those things reality is different than it has been. And so that that and he's eluded to that in a couple things that I've heard with and talk about even today of you know, really
want to understand. I like how he said where people's hearts are when he's talking about the you guys and what they want to do and come back and then figure out, hey he was going to be back in then and figure out how to attack it from there. So, the one thing that I thought about as I listened to the assembly call this morning, Was I think Jared pointed this out. Well first off I will say let me go back to something called sorry all over the place.
I will say that you mentioned like you know that idea but we fired our to we've got Mike Woodson like what were you doing? This is a Galen point that I think is very valid. Like the two decisions are don't have to be tied. Like you could fire your coach and maybe make a good or bad hire like they're not tied
together. Like the idea to get rid of Archie is one decision who to hire as your next coach is another decision and they can both be right, they can be right or wrong, they can both be wrong but Don't need to be tied together. So I think that's where National people look at it. They like oh you fired Archie.
This is what you got. It's like no we needed to fire Archie. I don't want to rehash that I think the thing that was talked about on the assembly call that really got me thinking today was the idea of, you know, how this decision is framed based on the Human Being Framed on Stevens. But it's, you know, a lot of us are framing this based on people
that we assume. It's like, well, you know, we're looking at Woodson vs. Chris beard or Woodson versus, you know, Eric Musselman, and what's in versus Scott? Drew where I'm a knife and we've been podcasting for 12 years and I you bathroom, when I you grab like, I'm an IU fan, but I do think we might need to come to the realization, there's a real
possibility. None of those guys wanted the job like we're looking at this as if like we turn down a bunch of other maybe good guys to get Woodson. And again, I'm going to lay out the positive points for Woods near. I'm not knocking it but it's possible that whether you like or dislike Woodson. What's it could have been the Name that was available for us to hire as guys who also had reciprocity interest in us.
So I think that's an interesting way to frame it because I look at it as like, you know, just be honest. I was kind of interested in Eric Musselman but it's like there's a possibility. I'm assuming like Musselman would have wanted to come here, but maybe he didn't. So I think that needs to be like, we'll never know that answer, but I do think that's where some fans are getting locked up. And, like some of my friends are kind of like, you know, my other friends were not.
I you fans like that's the best you could do. And it's kind of like, well, it's possible. All that there. Wasn't anybody? You know, they be it is the best that we could do. Yeah, it's it's odd to think about. I don't mean it like sorry, that that came off - I got the best we could do. But it's like it's possible that all of those other names that it's not like we turned out
other people to get this. Yeah, I think the the Regard in which, you know, we might hold the job is different than, or potentially different at least than the way other people would see it. And I think your pointer on whether that's a muscleman or, or beard or whatever mean there, there were reasons to believe those guys may not want to move. Plus then you have Texas open up that has implications with at least at least one of those guys.
And also what due diligence was done by you to check these guys and say are these really guys that we want like we can look and say, hey this guy has a great record and this, you know, this looks good about this guy and they do their due diligence in the background and say, hey, there's a couple things here that I'm not, I don't know that I want to introduce him to the program, not saying that happen with either one of those guys.
Certainly don't know. But I also think the possibility exists that as people create their wish list of what they see based on the information that they have, there's other information available in the background that then may disqualify some of those guys or to your point. Those guys aren't interested and what was a list of 10 people might get whittled down to four by the time you've sorted some of these things out and it's what you have.
I don't know that. I do think that's the sum total of 20 plus years of of the way the program has pressed perform with some, you know, positive moments here and there. But you know, you've done that multiple times, we kind of go through and say, hey, over this time period. Here's what these Blue Bloods have done, and here's how I you Compares and whatever else and like, it doesn't compare
favorably. And the way that the way that it's thought of by the fan base and different people there may not, I think that's always going to be a little bit skewed, but maybe even more skewed than Expect it to be in terms of How It's really perceived out in the, in the marketplace of
people who are looking for jobs. Yeah, I think the other thing that, you know, I think it's a real possibility, I could also see it as like, people see this as a - I want to look at both sides of this, but before we get into digging into the particulars of this, you can't talk about this much, that bringing up fad Mata, which I think is just a really
interesting wrinkle. You know, when I looked at the again, kind of made my wish list of, you know, Coaching hires that model was top of my list if not you know one one or two if he was going to be healthy enough, he's a lot younger than people expect. We said a million times in this podcast. His record in the Big Ten is impeccable. Everybody's like OB line. It's like dude modest probably has a better record over that
time like modest. Probably the second best coach in the last 20 years in the Big Ten behind is 0 and it's is those got a title and Mata doesn't like the is those models. Got a lot of good going for him, you get him on the staff. I look at that as a real positive again like this is So tough for this hires you could you can kind of see it both sides. You also see it as like that said, you know, an admission that like Woodson wasn't enough and you had to hire bada I'm and
and yeah, I'm not fully sure. I know what his role is, I think we'll learn more overtime. Like he's not an assistant coach, he's an athletic director, you know, it's like, I've talked to other people. It's like, I've been saying, like, oh, his job, as he has a great coaching tree.
So he should be like, getting great assistance, but they're like, that's not his job because, you know, he's not an assistant coach and he's like, that's not the coach's job, it's like so, I don't know what his role is, but to me, I don't think it's again, the and I come down like, it doesn't hurt to have mod of here and to me, like that's kind of The Quiet part. Secret amazing part of all this is, like, you kind of got two coaches for the price of one. Like, I joked in the last pot.
It's like, it's like we printed Voltron, like we have all the pieces that come together and now we have, like, the mega coach. But yeah, that's, I'm curious your thoughts on the, the Mata piece of this, because you can't go too far down this road without mentioning like bad, bada is on the IU basketball staff. Pretty cool to say. Yeah, that was he was definitely a guy that I was was fairly high on there. That the health questions were really the biggest ones for him.
He not had as good a run the last year to he was at Ohio State. But to your point, his success in the Big Ten was proven and that's the one thing that one of the things everybody talked about before is I don't want to get the up-and-comer who hasn't already performed at this level before he truly fit, the bill of the guy who already had. So I think that's a positive. Even it like you said, I don't know exactly what the role entails.
I think it's a role that's existed before that different. People have held and it may be something that each coach may use. Differently. Based dependent the, you know, how the rules are what they can and can't do and those different things. But I think each coach is probably looking for something different from that, that particular role.
I think, if it a minimum modest serves in some advisory role on the pieces of the job that Woodson would be, Less prepared for Less familiar with or whatever you want to say. So whether that be recruiting or how to handle on campus visits or how to do whatever not necessarily the mod is participating in those because I'm not sure what the rules are
on that or they aren't. But at least to be able to, hey, here's here's how to organize this to be able to say, hey here, we have another guy who's had this, that your to potential recruits that is, you know, we have this guy, he's had this success. Here's the players that he's coached and got into the NBA and different things like that. So, I don't know how forthright anybody's going to be with exactly like what he's gonna do in that role, but I think it
certainly can't be a bad thing. Having a guy with his resume in the mix and it certainly seems like it's something that Woodson would have had to be open to on some level and hopefully serves as somewhat of an acknowledgement of hey I know that, I don't know everything but here's a guy who can help me fill in some of the gaps and help me through the acclimation process and we don't know. And I think Jared maybe it was Ryan, brought this up, I think it was Ryan about, you know, how
long is Mata for this position? That's a fair question. If something opens up and he's able to get back to coaching and wants to get back into coaching, is this a one year thing or not
hard to say? But I also would argue for a guy who's coming and who's never coached college basketball before even getting one year of tutelage, from a guy like that Mata is, is probably worth bringing him on, and bring it in, and having that risk, and maybe he comes on really like The role and is able to you know, it is a better fit for him from a health perspective and not having the rigors of
actually being the coach. And it's something that he likes and wants to stay at we that we don't know. But in the short term it feels like a positive for for Woodson and Fry you. Yeah, I liked Ryan's point. I hope that he's here to unpack his bags and stay for 7 to 10 years. I hope this isn't just, you know, his kind of dipping his toe into the water and then getting ready for the next job that he wants.
But I agree with you. It's it's one year and this is where, you know, Tough because I think retroactively you could see this honestly going both ways. Like, if Woodson does a good job. You look at this very similar. Again, as mentioned on one of the assembly call podcast, this is not a similar situation to Juwan Howard, but one similarity is Juwan. Howard brought unfilled martelly to his staff who has a lot of experience and that's, that's viewed.
Now is like oh look how great, you know, Howard was to bring a experienced guy like saying, so humble is able to give up, you do not give up a put somebody on his staff who, you know, will tell him things to do. And if wasn't a success, Well, I think it'll be viewed the same way flip side. If he's not, it'll be like, man. This is like it showed right off the bat like he wasn't able to take control.
Like he couldn't take control of the game, he couldn't take control of his program, like, it could be viewed, both ways with that. Here's where I'd like to kind of frame. Our discussion is personal opinion. I think at this point, people who are all in or all out are wrong and this is what I mean, is I think those who were just saying like look, this is this is the greatest higher ever. Like, there's no question. You don't, you don't think you're right.
You're Stupid like how can you not see this as great? I think there are some real question marks to look at and things that we can at least discuss rationally because this is a different type of higher. I think also people who say this is awful like this is a state of how bad I you is. Mike, I'm done. This is the worst Tire ever. I think that's also not a good way to look at it.
There's a lot of things that you could look at and say there's some real positives here and some real almost hidden gems of how things are being done. So I Veer away from people who were just 100% Went in or 100% out. I think there's definite ways to look at it so I'd like to kind of look at the positives and negatives with you. You know, let's start with, we'll start with positives, will go to negatives and will end on a positive note.
I promise folks are not going to I don't want to end just a bunch of negatives but I'm curious. What are some of the things that you look at when you as you look at this and think about it that you really think are you know positive opportunities for
Woodson as coach. So I'm going to, I'm going to hit off the court stuff first, I guess, and then we can, we can get into a little bit of the other stuff, but I think the one thing that he is really, really try to drive home in the press conference, and some of the videos that have been making the rounds in terms of conversations with, like, Raymond Felton.
And I forget the other, I forget, the other next guys were in the video, Felton was the one that was prime or prominent, but the people have been, you know, going around about is I think his his focus on relationships with the play.
There's and the talking about more of the family, atmosphere, whatever I say that without even talking about the whole, I you piece of it. And, you know, being able to talk a lot about Bridging, the Gap between different generations of players, but I think from in because Jarrod has definitely brought it up to me. I don't remember whether he brought it up on when he was on with you or not. There's been so much content around this.
I can't keep track of who said what where I know and but luckily there's so much nobody can prove, prove me wrong, if I throw the wrong name out of the wrong, the wrong out. Let but, you know, he talked a lot about just the yeah, I was one of the kind of failures of Archie was you just didn't see that relationship with the players?
I don't think he, you know, set himself up to really let you in to know what he was really all about any more than he did in the opening press conference and in and Woodson seems very focused on that. Now, time will tell on that, it's easy to pay lip service to that right out of the gate. But I think when you hear NBA guys, talking about that like that, to me really says something. Maybe I'm Drinking the Kool-Aid or getting sucked into that.
But I think the relationship piece of what he's doing. He's talked about accountability.
I think we've all had questions about, you know, how some of that has been put into place in Archie Senor, probably even green to a certain extent of, you know, being clear with his expectations, being hard on players, expecting a lot of them but also really, you know, being there for them and and being a resource for them that they can use and somebody that they are comfortable working with and want to play for and want to play. A hard for it and want to do
well for. And I think that's resounded pretty clearly from any of the NBA guys who have come out and said things. And I think if there's one area that we talked about this, as well of see, NFL teams do this where the pendulum swings so far back and forth between oh here's the hard-ass and I got to go to the player's coach and it just like goes so far. One way or the other. I think that was the one area of the eye.
You search process whatever you want to say that needed to probably take the biggest 180, wasn't. Of building the plate relationship. Now, whether that establishes itself on the recruiting Trail, whether that comes to fruition or not, from that perspective, I don't know. But anything you've seen red, even heard and brief times today. I think bodes well for that part of the job, which will be a big improvement from where we were before. Yeah, it's funny. You mention that.
That's one of the things I look at is a real positive that, you know, as I look back on the Archie era, one of the things that I've said is, you know, and I'm not rehashing the air. But your he was really on the margins. Like you were one or two wins away every year from may be making the tournament four years in a row and which would have kept Archie at IU. And he would have been here another year. And we wouldn't be looking at this as a massive disappointment.
If we were in the tournament, four years in a row and again, you're talking about two wins a year to get there. But what, you know, we saw it like a lot of, you know, the game against Rutgers the game against Michigan State where, you know, Ella it looked like they didn't want to be there. And now you're hearing some Rumblings coming out that Archie wasn't The in Indiana that he kind of regretted taking the job and, you know, he kind of almost had his own mental foot out the
door as well. It's like, well, yeah, the team reflected their coach, they looked like they were kind of disinterested and, you know, I anybody who's played Sports will tell you, it's as much mental, as it is physical. And that is the one thing that, you know, Mike Woodson wants to be here. Mike, Woodson loves. I you and I think you're going to get to a point where he's gonna seem disinterested or I don't see your good as and the team isn't. Going to reflect that.
Like, I don't see a spot where Mike Woodson is gonna kind of look like Archie, did the last couple of games this season where you're like, dude are you, are you locked in because I had that feeling with her and I'm not trying to bag on Archie, but we all were kind of like. He looks kind of like, he's out of answers and the team looks disinterested at time and the team, showed it by not scoring four minutes minutes, upon
minutes and Game film. And my point is that back to the expectations, right asking for much. And honestly, If we keep the things just stable and Woodson has a team that at least is passionate and it's like, no, we are not going to give up against Rutgers. Maybe they win those extra two games a year and we're in the tournament four years in a row. Like at that, that's the part where, you know, we don't need to be talking sweet 60s and Elite eights and national championships.
Like and I'm not trying to undersell what he has to do to be a good coach. But it's like if the team displays hard, that could be the difference, you know, it's making the tournament not That could be the difference that's turning this whole thing around. Like, on one hand, it seems like it could be, it's a Monumental task. On the other hand, it may not be. So I really do think the fact that Archie might have mentally been checked out, and that Woodson is, is fired up and
wants to be here. I think has been a little bit understated, might be more important than people are looking at, is that the team we're going to have next year. I do think they're going to understand how important it is, and they're going to play with passion because if anything, I you seen that With the way that the players talk about Mike Woods, make you said the the former NBA players like Carmelo Anthony being like this guy's like a father figure.
You know you have high-level NBA players talking, glowingly about Mike Woodson and I can tell you that Mike Woodson wants to be the IU coach. Like I'm I don't know him but I have a hard time believing that six months from now he's gonna be regretting taking this job like this is a great job for him for what he for, who he is. So I think All that could translate to just a better product on the court.
Yeah, I think so too. You talked about Archie, not looking locked in sir, you saying you did not abide by the John Rothstein Archie Miller more locked in than a CPA on April 14th. No anyway couldn't couldn't help but think you probably might still be able to get this kind of t-shirt with that saying on it from rothstein's website. Yeah along with and it really hideous jackets. But that's neither here nor there. Um so when we hear so I'm sorry I'll really like it but now I
What? One of the things you brought up is one of the other caste man, let it go, let it come on. One of the I know I gotta get, I gotta get myself into this, you know, this frame of mind. But anyway, yeah. What are the other things that you brought up is just how much he actually wants to be here and how much the job means to him.
I have never been a big proponent of the, you need an IU guy or you need Indiana players or you need whatever because I think fans, I don't know that fans really kick, you know? Again your as a fan or you going to enjoy a win. More because there were 8 IU kids on the roster as opposed to two. Are you going to enjoy wind more? Because now, you guy was the guy as the head coach at verses, not know, especially after the last handful of years. You just enjoy wins period.
But, but you can tell it means a lot to him, talked about it, being a dream come true and how its, you know, come full circle for him being able to come back and be in a kid from Indianapolis and being able to, to get this job for a university. That means a lot to him and for program, that means a lot to him. And so that's the part where I do think that argument holds some weight and maybe I missed the boat on that a little bit.
And I still, you know, I still believe that nobody is getting the feeling of winning is not diminished by somebody else being there. But I may have sold short. The notion of this guy is not going to let let people just not show up and kind of in what. I assumed his view would be Sully, the reputation of something that means a lot to him and is Ali going to enforce those kinds of things and reinforce the, the meaning of what.
Putting on the Jersey means all that kind of cliched stuff, but it clearly means a lot to him. And I think how far that takes him what, what shortcomings, that may, that may help. I don't know, but it does feel good to know that. There's a guy who, who understands the magnitude of being the caretaker of something that he was a part of and what
it meant. And he, I feel like he's a Is that a lot of times getting things back to where it was, what they had built, bringing the guys bringing different guys in and how much it meant to him when he was in the program when when night would bring some of the older guys, back to talk to him and how he wants to do that here. So again what that how many wins that equates to knit, nobody knows. But I think despite his kind of mild-mannered delivery of a lot of what he said.
Like you could tell that he was passionate about IU basketball, which is a good feeling. The other thing that I would say on a positive is in his NBA record, you know, and a couple of the pods I've listened to have had dissected his record pretty well and what he did in Atlanta and there's there's different ways you can look at it. You know, he made he took two bad teams to the playoffs.
The last coach to have really any massive success with the Knicks, but he took over a bad Atlanta team to his record. May not, you know, reflect as good of a coach as he is the thing that I take away from it is that year, the 2012 2013 season The Knicks won the Atlantic division, and, you know, people forget that, that was kind of the space and paste. Nick's like that was the Warriors before the Warriors.
Like they Woodson's teams played a slower Pace, but they shot the most number of Threes in the league that year, they made the most number of Threes are one of the most high scoring offenses. And I remember at the time, like they were shooting, you know, almost like what, like, ten threes a game them in the Rockets. But people were, like, what the hell are the Knicks doing? Like it's nuts.
And this You know, in the sound like I say, Mike Wilson created basketball as we know it today, but he was ahead of the curve, like he that mixed, he was ahead of the curve. The team that he coached that was before the warrior started going at it nuts. And that was a team that didn't like, it's not like they had Steph Curry. And you know, Klay Thompson. I mean you had Carmelo Anthony
trying to pull up their stats. Now on who the totals for three points attempted that year but you had to go j.r. Smith, you know, Steve Novak Jason Kidd, Raymond Felton, you know, so I wouldn't call it j.r. Smith, the Deadeye of the league, but you had a team where he's like, we're going to shoot a bunch of Threes. And so that is another positive I take from his coaching experience. As you look at it, he saw where basketball was going.
And to be fair, he had one of the first teams that kind of play a space and pace and play a bunch of three out. Again they're there. The the pace is a little bit slower in the NBA but he scored a lot of points to shot a lot of Threes. And so I'm invigorated by that, that he shown that You know, he had some pretty Innovative offenses while coaching in the NBA.
I will also say this. I need to, I haven't done the full due diligence and kind of looking at it, but there's two coaches that I found, you know, there's not a lot of coaches that have gone from the MBA to college with experience a lot of got Calipari, did it? And was not good in the NBA. They went back to college and Pitino. Did it went back? This is an honest question.
You know, Avery Johnson went to the finals but doesn't have as many Ins as Mike Woodson, as am be a coach, is this the most number of wins for an NBA coach to have ever then gone back to college and Coach? I'm having a hard time finding anybody who has more head coaching wins in the NBA than Mike Woodson bringing to college.
He definitely has more than, you know, more than Avery Johnson more than Calipari. More than Pitino, there might be another example that I'm completely whiffing on, but if not, it's in the top three. So, I mean, there's a lot of experience and Innovative experience in the NBA as a head coach. Yeah, it's funny because we haven't really talked about any the X's and O's stuff. And I think what you said about the paces is true.
I know, Sam disini had a few tweets yesterday where he talked about, you know, relatively slower paced but offenses were always efficient. And you talked about that season just being able to, you know, to work around the Personnel he had. And there was another video that they had. I think it was j.j. Redick and somebody else were talking about about basically wasn't getting Steve Novak paid where they risk. Basically said like after after every time out he would run a
play and get no beca three. And he would, you know, he was such a good shooter. He would like, make almost all of them, they talked about how much money he made him over time, or being, you know, running different in bounds plays and things like that. So I think I think the X's and O's piece is an exciting one. You got to figure out how to get your pieces to fit around it and that's where the recruiting comes in which is ultimately going to be one of the
questions. I'm sure that we're going to talk about but you know, from a just coaching basketball standpoint You know, I struggle to believe and I think he even said this on his interview with dockage today where you know, people have questions about how can this guy go from the NBA and Coach College? He's never coached in college before and I think his retort was what can a guy from college just going to the NBA and have success right away and it's like
yeah if you can do it there. Yeah. They're different people who have kind of phrase, the different ways but you know, then I forget who it was. I wish I wish. I remember. I think it was Fran fraschilla, I have to look up the, I'll have to look up the Tweet, but it was something to the effect of There's more coaching that goes on in three or four minutes of an of an NBA game. Then something at a college game, I'll find it here while we're while we're here.
He said, oh yeah, honestly, Mike wouldn't have to build a good experience. College hoops staff in Indiana, but honestly, there's more coaching in one NBA game than three or four college games that will not be an issue. Well, I think, guys from that perspective, you kind of understand the coaching pieces of it will be there. Can you get his guys to execute what he wants them to do that? Remains to be seen. Can you get the guys, too?
That he needs to run the system that he wants to run or can he adapted a little bit two guys that he has? That remains to be seen but I think it would be hard to look at some of the things that he's done and say like this guy you just can't coach. You don't stick around whether it be as a head coach or on the sidelines of an MBA people talked about. We went back to the Nicks has an assistant like how they you know, had an uptick in
performance as well. So I don't think you stick around in the league that long it's hard to keep a head coaching job for a long time in the NBA. Yeah. But I don't think you stick around in the league that long without without having some serious, you know, coaching chops in that regard.
So I think that part will be fine, it's really the personnel and how that piece of it comes together but a lot of good anecdotes about some is like I said, is in bounds plays and different things like that that were floating around. Yeah. Well and I think it's funny to that, you know, some of the negatives are like well, but you know, he he had success of the Knicks when he did and he a fire
and it's like so is that good? It's like well I mean we're all in the Bret Stephens trains Brad Stevens could very likely get fired from the Celtics like two years. Like there's a lot of good NBA coaches who get We just had your fire the NBA as a mean, you're bad. You guys might be a good fire. Then go to a different team and
be successful. It's like yeah it's just it's very cyclical and I think very much the the leashes typically not too long for those guys and when it starts to go sideways you're not going to be there for very long because there's so much money to be made and different things like that. So yeah, I don't necessarily concern that and then I think somebody else pointed out with the next haven't won nearly that many games since he left except for maybe you know as he's been
back more. More recently. So, yeah. And I have one more positive in less than that. Also, I think is lead us into some of the negatives or at least question marks, unless you have any more positive you want to talk about now, keep going to go with your you know, I think the other positive here is just an immense amount of MBA ties, you know, I think there's any
cats. I don't have it up in front of me. He tweeted, go check his Twitter. He tweeted out a list of like all the NBA players that Mike, Woodson, his coach in some capacity and it's like a, who's who of All Stars? You know, obviously Carmelo Anthony had a great time under him. Jason It Allen Iverson, you know, is like Paul Pierce just just a ton of players who played under Woodson, all have glowing things to say about them and that's something where I do think like, that's a great
recruiting tool. Like, you know, I heard Mike wasn't talking to the end and Doc, it's like the first thing he's gonna do is go talk to trace Jackson, Davis, and to me it's like that's a real real pitch. It's like, hey, you know, Davis Jackson Trace sorry he's all those names. Are you? Hey Trace, he'll pick one of those, you know. Hey but you know hey I'm gonna help you. Get to the NBA because I know what NBA coaches are looking for because I was one and I talked to them.
And hey, do you want to talk to Thibodeaux? All right. Do you want to talk to, you know, DeAndre Thomas? Because I coached him or do I talk to Colonel? Anthony come early. Anthony could tell you right now. Here he is on, Zoom like Carmelo. Tell, Tracy was got to work on for his game to make it the NBA. It's like that's very compelling and he's got a plethora of Guys, across eras and interested he can talk to. I think that's that's a huge piece.
This leads me into some of the question marks. Is that one, you know, as we talked about Hurting. It's like all the recruiting is based on him bringing in other people, taking the end. It's got to be, people have to have to want to play for woods and I would all say the MBA Tais while I'm excited about that, it's not like other coaches don't have connections to NBA players that we talked about that with Tom crean like well Tom crean has to Wade Wade and that gets you a LeBron, you know.
He has Victor Oladipo it's like I think Tom Izzo could call up, you know oh God come on the green frame. Agreed, get his phone call returned and probably get on the line with yo Steph Curry or Klay Thompson or one of those guys or a variety of other NBA players. So I well I think that's a positive for us. I also don't think it's Unique to us, some of the other, you know, concerns that I have. And then I want to hear some of yours.
Is that, you know, the age thing is something that has to be talked about, like, he is 63 years old. It's not bad. I mean, I'm getting We're all
getting older. So I not ageism but even on his interview with dokic today, he said that, you know, he was talking to Patrick Ewing and Ewing was surprised that, you know, when he was going out to recruit all the father's, loved Patrick Ewing, but the students that he was trying the players, he was trying to get had no idea who he was and we all Collective. I you we know who Mike Woodson is, I'm going to be honest, like, not nationally.
You just don't like, if you don't know who Patrick Ewing is, you don't know who Mike Woodson is. And so I do wonder how much any of that is going to hold that, you know, maybe the fathers are going to be very impressed in the High School, coaches, run Indiana, but are the players going to care about? You know, somebody who is as old, as their grandparents. I may just it has to be brought up. I think it just is a question
mark. So that's I have a, I have a couple others, but I want to hear some of, you know, as you look at, you know, what are some of the concerns as you look at the Mike Woodson. That model hiring? Yeah, I think that. I mean, I think the recruiting and that one is Really. The biggest one is how I don't wanna stay motivated. He is but it is a lot. It's something he hasn't done before from that standpoint. I know he's made the point, your recruiting and the NBA but I
think that's a bit. It's different in both of a good and a bad way. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah his name doesn't necessarily have the same cache a walking into somebody's living room as other guys. But the flip side of that is I don't know. You know, there's plenty of other guys who are coaches who the people aren't going to have heard of or can't go do quick research about and see, whatever. I think, I think you're right. The NBA connections are great
and sound great on the surface. But everybody at most major programs has somebody that they've put in the league who can do that. Now, he may have some older guys who he's really work with and maybe that from a Player Development standpoint becomes really important as to being able to being able to talk through like, hey, here's here's how I've done it. I thought the trace stuff was interesting as well, where you said, you Here's how you know
want to talk to him about. Here's what I think you need to do to get to Lee. Here's here's how I can help you do it because I don't think that's the kind of help that traces really gotten whether that was because he didn't want it. Archie, didn't offer it?
I don't, we can all his draft stock, reflects it, we can lead into that, but yeah, you know, I think if there was a selling point there for him, there could be a selling point for other guys that said, hey, I've spent 20 plus years in the NBA. I understand what is, what is needed in today's game. And here's how I'm going to, here's how I'm going to get it to you, but I also think he's not necessarily going to be the you know rah-rah guy necessarily out in front of it.
So you know I think his approach to recruiting is going to be interesting. Only because we can't after listening to him talk and whatever old videos and a press conference. A radio interview today, really understand like, you know what how that's going to go when you're talking to a recruit but I think the age of thing is part of it, but I also think you just his approach to, it seemed pretty matter-of-fact and and whatever else.
So I think it'll be interesting to see how that plays now depending upon, who you surround yourself with from an assistant standpoint, what role model could play in that, and kind of advising him a guiding him through that, maybe you mitigate some of those things, but that's to me is the biggest one of how
you do that. And with all the guys in the transfer porter portal, maybe that's a little bit easier where you can, at least initially you can go to Get some guys that you think are going to be a good fit for your system, you get them in. You start to have some success and then every conversation becomes easier because you've actually started have some success. So I mean not that, not only flipped so good, I say not to keep flip, not to keep flip-flopping on the recruiters
for you get off. That is as I got to be flipping on the positive and negative, but it's like it also is, you know, it's like when we had our cheese like we're gonna get Bruiser flint and Bruiser phone's going to recruit the guys and then it's like you hear a lot of guys like, oh and I was recruited because the assistant coach, not the not the head coach and so it's like how much is Woodson important. But then is like, but it is what we talked about now.
But I would also say to it's like winds kind of solve all of this because if your, if your bread under word or you're, you know, it's like your holtmann. It's like maybe you just kind of come and say, look man we're rolling we got, you know, your is oh, like how much do kids really think is those cool? Which is like I know that's a program that is consistent and can get things done and I'm going to the program not so much
the coach. But again maybe it may be the assistant coach is the one recruiting me. So I it's I can flip up them at a bunch of different ways, you know, the other thing he said on Deck Edge that was kind of perked my ears up at was you talked about recruiting the state and different things like that and he's like I don't even know if I need to leave the state of Indiana to, you know, you know everything I need can be right here and I you know that's certainly Hyperbole and everything.
I think these guys are saying and some of these situations is said for a reason and I think by the same way that Archie talked about the importance of that, and that was one of the areas that he Seeded at least earlier in his career there. If you guys as a, you know, got later through here that were mrs. And things like that.
But, you know, again, if you want to be concerned about how what his approach to recruiting to be and how that's going to go like hearing that is a statement might make you a little bit concerned. Is it like do you really think
you can do that? Is that just because that's all that you really want to recruit is that, you know, because you're not really embracing the totality of all the stuff you have to do. Like I don't know again that, that that's probably One quote in and spinning it too far.
But I think, for me, most of the question marks fall within that kind of recruiting and how you get, how you get players again, if you're able to show Player Development with the guys that you have, and you're able to show wins, then I think it takes care of itself. If that doesn't happen early on in, and it puts more of a burden on you, to go, get guys. Is he wanting to really grind in that way and the you and
comment. I also thought was interesting of like I just didn't know how involved this was essentially. It was the gist of the comment so and I don't think he has a way to know how involved it was going into it.
He's just going to have to see because it isn't an offer from I you today isn't what it was when he was playing in four years after he was playing and I you like that's not enough anymore in the same way that we talked about, you know, kind of how the program is. You've done a variety of levels like that doesn't really hold the same weight. So there's more work required to do that versus you hear all these guys, the get interviewed about the night Recruitment and
he was like, basically. So you coming or what once he had zeroed in on who he wanted? Yeah, I don't think that, I don't think that works anymore. I'm pretty sure. So you have to have to figure out how he's going to navigate those those Waters. Yeah. The other thing that, you know, Ryan brought this up on the assembly call which I think is fair, very fair point that You know I've never I'm I grew up in Bloomington so I'm an IU guy.
Deep, I never thought we needed to get an eye you guys coach. Like I just want to get the best coach. I just want to win but I do think this is a nice spot where it's like, all right. We can now put this to bed forever like if it works then maybe that maybe this is the way we need to go down. Maybe maybe that was something need to be looked at if it doesn't work. I do agree. It's like I can we stop. We did it, like we stop talking about it?
Like I think either way we now have that answer is like We need how important it is to have the IU guy in the ties and all that stuff. It's like you look at Kansas at just a random example. It's like, you know, they bill self is really a value ties and or sorry, it says Kansas Kansas ties and he did a doing okay. There, you know, North Carolina was more important to them. They got a guy who had the ties, but it's like, I'm a happy to get this question finally
answers. It wasn't to keep percolating every single time. Ryan also mentioned, I think this is a fair point to that. If things go sideways or just not going, well it's going to be tougher to fire Woodson than just a random coach you brought in because of all the ties because of all the connections because he's close with, so many of the old players, like it's going to be, he's probably going to get an extra year whether you like it or not.
And this is also again, the flip side where the age maybe comes in to be a help. It's like, because we're kind of looking at like a six-year term either one way or the other. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it'll be People can argue. This is 20 years too late. They should have done this hour-long, go abroad.
And I you guy like I said before, I don't know that I've ever subscribed to that, but I'm also willing to admit that maybe that's a blind spot for me of not really realizing how much that matters in this is. Yep, one way or another, gonna get a tell that story. I think because if it doesn't work out, at least you've gone down that road and said, hey, we've tried to do this. We've tried to reconcile the past with the present and all of those kinds of things.
And And what's made a lot of, a lot of comments to that effect when he was in the press conference, in particular, really trying to bridge the gap and use that comment A Lot G or bringing the the old timers as he said with with the newer guys and really kind of bringing the program back together.
In that regard. Even, you know, even mentioned Josh Smith who as we know will always be part of the IE family, he retired his jersey retired as recruitment so But I do think it'll tell because that's been such an area. Maybe if we have a banner for Indiana's. Number one all-time big. Tina all-time NCAA, people get her number one. All-time recruit never played here. I never put a banner for that. Yeah. But yeah. So I think that's like it or not, that's important.
And like I said earlier, I think that you know I may have misread the importance of that over the course of time, just listening to him. Talk about it. Now obviously the reactions from any former player that has turned up have all been really positive in that regard but I think that's what you'd expect. Spect and so it remains to be seen. I think that's a difficult job for him though, too. Because there's kind of been
that Line in the Sand of night. Guys, and post night guys, essentially how he's really able to bring some of that together will be a challenge, but you also have a lot of guys who have played after night left that are still passionate about Indiana basketball. I think if he's able to navigate that and bring that all together with guys from Yo, across the Spectrum. That'll be really interesting.
I think a guy like Jared Jeffries is maybe somebody who can help bridge that Gap. He tweeted a little bit. I think you're at asked him about it. He's got experience with Woodson from his time, with the Knicks and you know it's kind of in that transitional time period between night Davis so maybe there's an opportunity for him to do that. But yeah, I like you, I'm like it or not. I think it at least put that
argument to least. We'll get an answer to like whether that is could have work now. We'll never know. Oh well, they're doing that 15 years ago would have made any difference. I'm sure people will try to tell you that it would have. I don't know that it that's true or not, but it will be interesting. But I think that's a maybe more difficult task than perceived to really bring all of that back together in some kind of cohesive way. That their bread, do you think it's needed?
And he seems to have a passion around doing that based on his passion for the program. So we'll, we'll see how that actually manifest itself. And what that actually means two guys that are on. Yeah. Yeah, I would say this again back to my initial thought, you know, I it has seemed like, you know, listening to coach to sahni and a lot of the lot of the podcast I've listened to
that. Most people are kind of justifying his in the right word but kind of coming around like alright, this wasn't what I was expecting. I'm a little bit underwhelmed but let's find the positives here and there's some real positives here, you know, and a lot of people are also saying that, you know, I'm excited to see who is assistant coaches are, which I find I agree with.
I also, So find it funny because it's like, all right, if you theoretically if you nail the hire, nobody gives a shit who the assistant coaches are like, let's just pretend to get a world like, hey, we hired Brad Stevens. No one's next questions. Like who's number two assistant going to be? It's like so there is a part where like the fact that people are so Iran. The assistance kind of means like maybe we're confused.
All that said, I think it's good that you can be a little skeptical on some of these things. You don't need to be all in. You shouldn't be all out. I think we can come to a point where it's like, all right, I'm I will speak for myself. I was a little bit underwhelmed. I was like, okay, that wasn't that wasn't where my head was at. I wasn't expecting that that wasn't on my top list, but as I've given it more time and more thought, I see a lot of positives and I see a lot of
reasons why this could work. I see a lot of ways that this could be a great move for IU. And like I said, I love seeing Dolson. Take a chance here. This is a real. It's not a gamble but it's just, it's a Very unique way of doing it with the fad bottom piece. We haven't talked and I think we probably talked enough about that here, but I think we're both kind of, not sure exactly what that role is going to be. I like that to me in the end.
I like that Dolson did something that's a little bit more unique and different than just saying. All right, we're going to bring in, you know, Eric Musselman. And you know, this just kind of do what we always do. What we've always done, this is a little more different and you know, innovators look, silly on the get go until they We'll catch up to him.
So I'm coming around on it I think it's okay if you're a little bit skeptical and have some questions you don't need to be all in and you shouldn't be all out.
Yeah, I agree with what you said before if you're if you've already chalked it up as a failure or if you already chalked it up to the greatest decision anyone's ever made, your you've already made your mind up about a lot of other things and really it wouldn't it almost wouldn't matter if coach was right and so yeah I'm like you I we did. J-horror had sent in a question for us last week. On a, somebody called radio and it was just different, like, buckets of where you put people in.
And I think what sin was in the kind of underwhelmed. I think the category was underwhelmed, but I'll talk myself into it by the time the season starts or by the summer. Like I feel like that's and that's what I said. That's what I said then. And that's, that's kind of how I
feel. Now, like I said, I'd be, I'd be interested to think about How you would view Woodson if not for all the few days of the stevia scoop blah, if it was the only thing now, people are going to point out will, you know, he wasn't really a candidate for any other college coaching jobs, or any of that kind of. Like I don't think he wanted another College coaching job like in listening to him.
Talk about it. He had expressed interest in the job at some point in the past didn't make it clear when that was. But I also you know, there's some things that you would, you know, only do for A certain place like right, it's not like he's gonna go coach, Austin Peay, just because he really wants to get into college coaching, I think he won and the flip side, the flip side County
boards. Like the flip side counts to like just sorry to interrupt you but that's what I do like but the flips it's like I'm you shoot from Ryan so it's cool. I know, I know I know but it's like no but I think your point is valid like yeah like yes Woodson would have been hired by any other college but on the flip side, it's like when you look at I use list it was like we had a bunch of other random
Assistant coaches. I gotta know who the second assistant for the Raptors is but like nobody was talking about him for the IU job. Like like yeah, what's it's not like, hey, can I go get the Tulane job? I've no connection there. But yeah, like the pace. I mean, you know, I use Muscle not looking at like, who's the Sacramento, Kings number one, assist. I think we should hire him like it goes both ways.
Yeah, yes, I so like I said, I feel like I'm I'm talking myself into it. And like I said, the beginning, I don't really know. As a fan, I'm not totally sure what the upside is for talking yourself out of it. And it's like, we all want, I you to have success in a way that they've been completely unable to sustain for however
many years now. So he might be the guy, he might not be, but for now I am in a probably talked myself into it and say, hey, here's the ways that this could work in the same way that everybody talk themselves into Archie Miller and said, hey, this is an up-and-coming coached. Here's how this is going to work and even, With in Seasons would say, oh, there's progress being made here, like, that's kind of what you do as a fan and then reach a point, whatever it is.
And I think everybody reach that it at different points with Archie was okay, look, this isn't this isn't working, there needs to be some kind of different direction and we need to move on and figure out what that is.
So to me I just think that's the general way you approach it and if I'm even more pleasantly surprised that things really go well with Woodson than great and if they don't Like, I'm not going to feel better being able to say, like, well, I didn't ever believed in this in the first place. So, somehow feel Vindicated that it didn't work before four years later and shoving somebody's face in it.
So, I think, you know, there's a lot of reasons to believe that it could work and could be a little bit different and because it isn't what other people would do. Maybe they're onto something. At the very least, Dolson has, at least a track record, thus, far of being decisive and being able to Yo, move multiple programs in a positive direction. So, to me, he gets a little bit of benefit of the doubt, but he's also putting his ass on the line. Bye-bye, going about it this
way. In a non-traditional way, which is not to say that. If you hired muscle, man, it didn't work out. It would be any different. But you went a little bit off the board with what you were doing. So, at some point, you got to trust his instincts and say he thinks this is going to work and is putting the structure around Woodson in place. To help ensure that it works because nobody stands to benefit more from this working out than Scott Olson.
He gets that program humming with everything else that's going on base, good. You got everything humming. I think that he's like, then he's like build the damn statue of me on front of, you know, whatever and move along. So he has a lot to lose if this doesn't go well. So to think that he did this, just because it's a night guy or it's a you know, and I you guy or whatever like a lot more due diligence. Into this than any of us will
probably ever know about. And so I'm willing to give it a chance and try to understand the negatives and be aware of what those are, but also embrace the pieces of it that are positive and suggest things could really work. So I guess you had it out of here on this. I kind of touched on this earlier kind of throughout my thoughts but how do you how do you judge success moving forward? Like, I know it's an open-ended question but I'll leave you. You know, open timeline.
How how do you judge success for Mike Woodson? Yeah, not getting smoked by Indiana State in the first game would be a good start I'll just throw that out there schedule a schedule wisely Mike for the first game of your for your first game. That's good. That's probably my biggest. Yeah, a lot of states in a lot of directions. Yeah. I was able to school. Yeah, the more directions, the
better than just kind of figure it out from there. 500 in the Big Ten was had his best year in the first year at Nine and Nine. And I think that's one of the things you look back at that where it's like, hey maybe he's gonna do this, these aren't his guys, he had some guys on that team who I felt like he really was able to get to buy into what he was doing.
He saw Freddy McSwain, Prairie play really well in that scenario and like those were, I think, in some ways, the kinds of guys that he will work with the best.
Yeah. So but you know, so it's now been three seasons and four of the last five where I you hasn't even been 500 in the Big Ten. I think if you're able to get to and 500 the Big Ten more often than not is going to get you in the tournament, although apparently this year's tournament format suggested, the big tennis terrible depending on who you listen to. So I think if you're able to your point within the first couple Seasons really get show progress. Get yourself to that five
hundred, mark. I do think the being pretty thing that you brought up is, is important and I think and I don't know how to quantify this one, but being able to Convey the recruiting pieces, what we've all got concerns about, right? So I don't know how you show. You really got your feet underneath you from a recruiting perspective and that you're kind of starting to understand that
part of the job. So that's a little bit harder to quantify but I think if you're able to do that then a lot of the negatives you start to quell some of those fears which I think is important but I think while he may be given a little bit more leeway, it also isn't it? I mean maybe it's me. Is a complete rebuild, depending upon how many guys in the portal, or there.
But like I said, I do think you can turn things quickly if you're able to identify guys and I think even understanding who's back and who's in this program from a transfer perspective. Next year is going to be a really good indication of the. You have a good idea of the kinds of guys that you need to win and are they buying into what you're doing?
And I think you can see that as early as your one that might not get you to the NCAA tournament but should set the stage for you to either bring in other transfers because you got coaches out there who are doing a great job of this. Everything Your muscle known as one beer done this, the Texas not to you know keep bringing up other guys whose names are
mentioned for the job. But they've been able to plug holes with those and Muslims case almost assemble entire rosters at various points of yeah, of transfers. So if you're able to do that this year, then you become a potential destination there. So I do really think get into a tournament within the first couple of years.
Feels like a bar that you need to clear and then as you get out further than that you know into you know your three your for, are you You really pushing at that point for what we wanted Archie to push for in year four of being, you know, top four top five of the Big Ten being able to get a, you know, a decent tournament run in there somewhere.
I think the the four-year trajectory expectations, whatever that people had for Archie is completely reasonable here because I don't think that's, you know, I don't necessarily feel like people were going above and beyond to say like hey he really has to do things that were that Have been unattainable based on the amount of time he'd been given. So in that regard I think I you guy or not standard needs to be pretty similar to what you'd look at with Archie.
And so I think what we use to measure his performance over the last few years is probably Fair me. Look at what's it to ya, gotta make the tournament. He's got start making the turn, but you guys were getting cracks at it. But I'm, I'm a botanist big concert in the game, every once in a while, that would be, that would be exciting. I mean, you're allowed to win back-to-back base. Senator McCain's like they do play games in that on Fridays and Saturdays.
I've heard I've there rumors, they plan on a Sunday. I mean, we'll know one of these days but I'd love to know for sure. Hey Andy, it's been great. Having you on, man. Let's not do it every time we have to get and it looks like you have to get a new coach to get you on. But no, man, it's great talking to you. Thanks for coming on, giving your Insight. And yeah, let's let's have a good offseason. Take a breath.
Enjoy this this time and get ready to get at it in the fall with a coach Woodson. And that model as our consiglieri that's why I'm gonna call my don't know what his title is but I said she liked it. I thought it right. Girl. That room last night I thought of that too. So I think we I think we throw that out and go at it. Now I appreciate you. Appreciate you having me on and yeah, it's good to be on it a hopeful time as opposed to I think there was one or two of the games that we had.
You come on the post game show for this year that we're we're far from good. So I least I'm on your show and more positive terms than you were ours. You know I look forward to coming on, I look forward to doing an assembly call next year and discussing more fun hopefully more Fun, play more fun offense and things to talk
about. So again, any bottoms from assembly called great to have you on, thank you all for listening and we'll continue to have more great content as we continue to look at the Mike Woodson, new-hire kind of dissect, it and move forward in a positive manner. So, until next time, thank you all for listening. This is Scott for Crimson cast signing off.