Jane Bigelow: “The Bigelow Terror”

I will help you out. It's from A Tale of Two Cities, which was written by Charles Dickens. And of course Dickens is considered one of the best known fiction writers ever, certainly in the Western world, and with each passing century he continues to be regarded as perhaps the greatest novelist of the Victorian era, certainly probably the most famous, at least for school children here in the US. He is responsible for classic novels. You're going to know all

these names. Oliver Twist, a Christmas carol which everybody knows because it inundates us from November through December, maybe October sometimes, David Copperfield, a Tale of Two Cities, as we just mentioned, and Great Expectations, among many other writings. And it's accurate to say that because of this high level of output and success over the years, Dickens attracted more than a

super fan or two. So it actually wasn't uncommon during this time for writers to begin their careers as journalists, and that's what Dickens did. He worked at The Mirror of Parliament and The True Son until three and it was because of his experiences as a journalist and the number of influential people that he was able to meet through those journals, that Dickens was able to do something he really wanted to do as a writer, which was

published a book. He's climbing that ladder exactly. He did get to publish his book, which happened in eighteen thirty three, that was titled Sketches by Bass, and it was published under the pseudonym Bass, that was his childhood nickname. And we may know him best for his huge list of novels that he wrote, but Dickens did a lot of other work. He edited weekly periodicals, he wrote travel books,

and he was very involved with charitable organizations. Just three years after the publication of sketches by Boss, so this puts us in eighty six. Twenty four year old Dickens married the twenty one year old daughter of a man named George Hogarth, who was someone that Dickens had previous business dealings with. They had worked quite closely, and that woman was Catherine Hogarth, and she and Charles Dickens went on to have a twenty two year marriage which produced

ten children. So the same month that he and Catherine married, the first installment of The Pickwick Papers was published. Now, this is one of the most pular novels of all time in the Western world. This collection of loosely related adventures was published in serial format, so came out a little bit of a time between eighteen thirty six and eight thirty seven, and it was wildly successful. And from that point on there was really no looking back for

the famously private Dickens. Speaking of that marriage, yes, let's talk about those children for just a moment. It is pretty widely reported that Dickens really enjoyed being a father, specifically to a young brood of children, and he wrote and produced plays and other fairly elaborate holiday productions at their home to entertain friends. And guests such as the Tennyson's and the Thackeray's, also famous writers of the time. This of course involved all those kids, right we have

a whole players group, right I have. I have a stock cast of ten I could work with. But as his kids got a little bit older, though, it said that Dickens became much less interested in them. They kind of aged out of the magic window for his his fascination. Nobody wanted to do those little plays anymore. The second they've become rebellious. I picture him being like, you're out of the play exactly. They hit that age, and he's like, out, your voice is changed. You cannot do this anymore. We're

going to cast your younger sister. So I am going to actually keep talking about these kids for just another minute, because there is something we should really address about their names and their nicknames that their father gave to them. And as you're about to hear, how could we not talk about this? So Dickens is known for his unique and often kind of hilarious character names in his novels.

There's Paul Sweedlepipe, I believe, Lord Lancaster still Stalking and the pork and hams um All a favorite all come to mind, and uh, things weren't really all that different with his kids. So some of the children were actually named for famous writers such as Alfred Tennyson Dickens and Henry Fielding Dickens. But it wasn't just their real names, right, they had nicknames. They all had nicknames. And you can tell, like as he that he really did love having a

young group of children. Right. So there were nine living children because their daughter Dora had died in infancy. So we're gonna talk about each of these children, and they're hilarious and adorable, question mark nicknames. It's going to take a minute, though, because it's nine children. So first of all, Charlie, who was the oldest son, was nicknamed the snodg ering blee. It just what you want your dad to call you, for sure, you're like dad, how kind You're not in

front of my friends. His eldest daughter, Mary was known mostly as Many, but she also had a nickname, uh, the mild Gloster. His son Henry was known as Harry or just h most of the time, but he also answered to a couple of other names, including the comic Countryman and sometimes the jolly post Boy. There was also Francis chicken Stalker Dickens Um, and the name honors a character from a Dickens novel, which actually almost all of these nicknames do. Right, then we have Walter young Skull Dickens.

I would kind of love if that's what my family called me, young Skull. We can start calling you young Sandwich is already young skull. Please come inside. That's how I'll introduce you from now. This is young Skull. People be like that skull is not young. Let's move on. Um. Alfred Tennyson, he was known as Skittles, not the candy. I know, I have questions. I'm like their connection betwixt

the two. Sydney Dickens had two nicknames. One was the Ocean Specter, which sounds sort of dramatic and actually feel like that one somehow related to Skittles because through me, Skittles makes me think of like a little crab, you know, sort of running around. Well. The other nickname that Sydney had was also maritime in nature. It was the Admiral

Oh Yes. And then there was Kate, who was one of the youngest children in the family, and Dickens gave her her specific nickname because of her hot temper, Kate was known as Lucifer Box. I just back away from that one. And then there was the baby, which is one of the nicknames I think most most large families will sometimes called the youngest child the baby. Ye right, do you have the baby? Even I, as an adult human, people would be like, oh, you're the baby, and I'm like, sure, right, yeah,

the baby. That was his son, Edward. But Edward didn't continue to be called the baby throughout his life because he grew into a new nickname which stuck with him for the rest of his life, and that was Plorn, which actually began as Mr Plournish maroon teagooner. These are like the things you would call a pet, right. I was just thinking they're great like cat names. Who bless Edward for putting up with that and somehow negotiating it down to Plorn and now Ran he's like dropped the Mr. Please.

That's a long list of really great and funny nicknames. So I'm going to take us to uh Dickens his own childhood and life for a minute. And this is before he became famous. So he was born in eighteen twelve and it was into kind of a lower middle class family and neighborhood. His father was a clerk in the Navy payoffice, but ultimately he was sent to debtors prison, and at age twelve, Dickens supported his family by taking a factory job where he pasted labels on shoe polish bottles.

His novel David Copperfield is actually considered largely autobiographical, especially this time, and it is also believed that Dickens likely

lived with epilepsy. Modern doctors have noted that the way that Dickens described what he called quote the falling sickness as it was known in the Victorian era, bears striking medical accuracy when you compare it to descriptions of epilepsy, and throughout his works, several of Dickens's fictional characters, including monks in Oliver Twists, are described as also having symptoms of what we today would diagnose his epilepsy. As an adult, Dickens really liked being active. He was known to go

horseback riding. He was not going on a probably long distance like twenty mile hikes. He frequently entertained his friends, and it turns out he really enjoyed playing practical jokes. He was a magician, and he practiced hypnotism, and it said that he would hypnotize Catherine to help alleviate her headaches. Although he read gularly practiced it on others, he always refused to be put into a trance himself. Dickens also loved and we got to repeat this, he loved all

things paranormal. He was at least allegedly a member of London's famous Ghost Club. That's a group that investigates reported ghosts and hauntings. We're using present tents because that club is still around today, although if you look at its history, some indicate that, like after Dickens died, it fell off for a while but then was revived. But you can

look it up today. If you're just you know, looking to join a paranormal investigation and research organization and you happen to be in London, absolutely maybe Dickens behaunt you fingers crossed, right. Yeah, So let's take a break for a word from our sponsor right now, and when we return we'll talk about Dickens Mania. Welcome back to Criminalia. Dickens's career and life changed significantly when he went on tour.

It was in eighteen sixty seven that Dickens kicked off a seventies six date tour across America which has since been described as the Victorian version of the British Invasion, including the arrival of the Beatles at John F. Kennedy Airport in New York City in the nineteen sixties. Dickens had toured the US once before, in two and his fans gave him a very warm welcome, literally trying to tear the shirt off his back to get themselves a souvenir. I marvel at these things, but I know I marvel

at these things. That's the kind of behavior I think people think of as very modern fair mania. But it was going on them between Dickens and Liz Domenia, like there was a lot in terms of being a fan of someone in the nineteenth century. Dickens, by the end of the tour described his experience as primarily disenchanting. He complained, we quote, I can't drink a glass of water without having one hundred people looking down my throat when I

opened my mouth to swallow. So this type of celebrity or rock star status is pretty commonplace today, and that's certainly augmented by the connectivity that we've achieved, but in the mid eighteen hundreds it most certainly was not. And he just was not prepared for this level of constant

gaze upon him. Absolutely not, And as we can see, he had a really hard time adjusting to it as most of us really, honestly it might And his quote is how queer it is that I should be perpetually having things happen to me with regard to people that nobody else in the world can be made to believe. So between the first and second tours he made of North America, and despite the twenty two years and ten children together, Charles and Catherine ended the relationship in eighteen

fifty eight. Dickens is on record stating that he was quote totally incompatible with his wife. You would think he might have figured that out more than two decades later, but but he did. The pair separated, but they did not ever divorce because at that point in time in Victorian society, divorce would have been quite scandalous because of how famous Dickens had become. Like if TMZ had existed them, they would have been all over this. They would have

been following him. There would have been paparazzi in the bushes, outside of his hotel, cameras everywhere. But the thing was, he didn't really treat the situation with care. He slandered his wife's name publicly. After ten children and some postpartum issues that she had. He thought that she had grown fat, tired, and dull. Um. I came up with a new use

for the time travel machine and it might need to deliver. Uh. I'm not a fan of violence, but I would want to perhaps just you know, jab him with a sharp stick and be like, what is wrong with you? Um? He also just just once? He also it does count. He also characterized his wife as weak minded and by and large embarrassing to him, and he also said that she was an unloving mother. So clearly that divorce was

all bad blood. There was not much amicable about it. No, no, And it's also around this time that Dickens, who was then began an affair with an eighteen year old actress who was named Ellen or Nellie turn in Um. It's it's really not known if that relationship began before or after he and Catherine separated, but it's known that he

did do his best to hide his new relationship. He always maintained though, that Nelly was not his mistress and they weren't having an affair, but everyone modern day knows that that was just a lie, And because he feared the press would discu cover them, he didn't really travel with her at all, and he did not allow her to accompany him on his second tour. And that second tour was very big news because while the first tour had been pretty intense, the second tour created one of

the first modern mass media celebrities. He inspired what's often called Dickens Mania. So there's this wonderful description of how Dickens looked while he was walking around Boston, which I believe his tour began to either New York of Boston's. This is fairly early on. And if ever there was a great way to describe the style of what could

be a Victorian rock star, this might be it. So Dickens, we quote, who had a gleefully gaudy fashion sense that attracted attention and some revulsion, was a particularly striking celebrity to encounter. He had fans who tore it his fur coat and one took an impression of his money bootprint

from the gravel was really quite a scene. It's funny because I didn't know until way late in life that Dickens had been sort of this like crazy dandy Me too, I think, because I associate him with his works, which are by and large about you know, like I think of Bob Cratchett, is like he's standing in that story and somebody who's very you know, kind of clothed in like these dark tattered No, that wasn't him at all,

not at all. And I had no idea. And you know, when I when I was going through school, he certainly didn't learn anything otherwise but that that description of him. So I was telling Holly when I first saw that description of him that he reminds me of a Victorian age Keith Richards because he's very flamboyant and he's got like what at the time was it was considered this utterly cool sense of style. And yet you look at it and you're like, none of that works, but it

totally all works. Yeah, Yeah, they don't teach you that, and still you don't know nowhere in it, nowhere in any of my my history or lit books was it like he is a fancy pants He had a lot of scarves hanging in his closet right, So that, of course was reported in the press, and so were a lot of other things because the American press fixated on reporting things like his personal habits. Uh. They printed that he did not use mustard in a particular restaurant in

New York City, as though that was newsworthy. We don't know which restaurant, but in case you're wondering for our New Yorker's uh, cats As Deli, which is famous for its handmade mustard, did not open its doors until so we know it. It was not that one, and he was not slaighting cats right. He was about twenty years too early for that one. Maybe it's because of him that they were like, we gotta make our own mustard.

There you go, there's our next theory. So this tour, the second tour to the U S. Dickens was a hot ticket on the literary tour circuit here and there was a I'm actually when Dickens considered a stage career rather than a writing career, and it really showed in his readings on tour and his readings anywhere. He was known as a gifted performer, and he did tours. He did public readings, and every time he would, he would act out passages from his books as if he was

on stage. And as a writer too, he would act out his characters before writing them into his novels. He wrote plays, he performed before Queen Victoria, and uh from time to time he also accepted rules in in amateur plays. Yeah, so those cute little plays he was putting on with the kids back home for his friends were not his only theatrical moments. He wanted to do it for himself, right. And here's the thing. He was a hot ticket like people wanted to see him when he toured because he

was excellent at it. He was the master of ceremonies that you would always hope to see. He has been described as dynamic, quick and observant and just having an amazing zest for life that kind of pulled his audience right along with him. And maybe he just hypnotized them all. Uh So, mainly what people saw was what Holly just described. But there was a flip to that though, and he he has also been described as being high strung, impatient, and also prone to depression, commonly two sides of the

same coin for sure. So it was on this second American tour. When Charles Dickens met the Big Allows, he was staying at the Parker House hotel in Boston. He usually dined there, he spent his evenings playing games like charades there with his manager and his publisher, as well as this couple, the Big Glows, who were visiting from New York City, and they were also staying at Parker House. So I'm actually going to interject something here right now.

This is the same Parker House that is famous for Parker House roles, and they were invented in eighteen seventies, so he missed those as well. But this is also the part of the story where we don't talk about delicious baked goods, but instead we move on to the stokery portion of the story. So the Bigelows we have Jane and John. And when Jane Tunis Poultney met the author and attorney John Bigelow, they met in eighteen fifty

and he was immediately smitten by her. Four months later they married and they went on to have nine children. John Bigelow edited and co owned with the New York Evening Post from eighteen forty nine to eighteen sixty one. That was before he became involved in a career of

international diplomacy. In eighteen sixty one, so that is when his his New York Evening post time ends, he was appointed by Abraham Lincoln to the American consul in Paris, And at this point his career really took off, because from there he became Charge d'affaire before becoming Envoy Extraordinary and Minister planet Potentiary. And in eighteen sixty five, so just four years into this diplomatic career, he moved into

the position of American Ambassador to France. He became very influential in France, in Napoleon the Third Court, in particular, he was so influential that he is credited for helping the Union win in the American Civil War by convincing France not to provide aid to the Confederate States. And then there's Jane. Jane Bigelow was known as Jenny to her close friends, and she seems to have had a

profound impact on her distinguished husband. He wrote of her, and we quote she was a woman of notable beauty and social charm. Her family deemed our courtship rather brief, but there seemed to be no occasion on my part, at least for prolonging it. Years after her death, he wrote, quote, without her, my career in the world would not only have been very different from what it was, but far less satisfactory to myself and to others. Okay, so let's

get real. John may have been a very influential diplo meant, and he may have credited Jenny with his success, but his wife was actually not exactly what most people would have expected of the spouse of someone in his position. There is a story at one point of her slapping the Prince of Wales on the back. I'm sure he was surprised by that, a silly gesture, but at the time that but I mean even now that would be horrifying. So subtract a hundred and sixty years off of it,

and it's really horrifying. There are a lot of other similar stories of poor or inappropriate behavior on her part, and it was actually rumored that John's career was really stifled because of her behavior, and that he lost out on the coveted position as American Minister to London because not everyone adored her as he did. So Jane, I'm going to call her Jane not Jenny, we're not friends. UM.

Jane to socialite in Baltimore. UM. And she was about forty years old at the time she met Dickens, who was probably also in his maybe his late forties at this point. UM. She was well known in political circles because of what her husband did as his career, and yes, also because of that whole slap thing. UM. So she was also really well known in both New York's social and literary circles. And that's because of her patronage to

emerging writers and artists. She quite literally opened her home to important and influential writers when they were in New York City. For instance, several times she hosted Oscar Wilde. She also notably hosted Charles Dickens. And it's when she met Dickens that things really began to change for Jane. So we're gonna take a quick break here, but when we return, we will talk about what came to be

known as the Bigelow terror. Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about how someone might go from being stay insufferable company to being a stalker. So much of what we know about Jane's obsession with Dickens actually comes from the diary of another woman, that is Annie Fields, who was a Boston Society hostess and she was the wife of

Dickens's publisher. Annie was present for many of the games and dinners that were held while Dickens was in town, so she witnessed a lot of things, and her descriptions are a good peek into how Jane went from quote obnoxious to stalker behavior. It's interesting that she quotes that tool. She very specifically calls her behavior stalker stalker ish. So Annie also described Jane and her behavior as the Bigelow terror, which I'm quoting because who could make that out um.

Things really began to stour when Jane began to regard Dickens as sort of her own personal property. She began to threaten any woman who even vaguely expressed interest in him, and that was whether they were flirtatious or not. And she harassed anyone who used their connections as a way to meet him. And for the cherry on top, yes, it keeps going. She verbally and physically attacked an elderly widow named mus Hurts who had come to call on Dickens.

She considered Dickens one of her favorite writers, and after his reading at the Westminster Hotel in New York City, wanted to meet him. So while Charles Dickens seemed to get along just fine with John Bigelow, he didn't really seem to enjoy Jane's company, surprisingly enough. Uh. Recorded by Annie in her diary, we quote, he has the deepest sympathy for men who are unfitly married and has really can a special fancy I think to John Bigelow because

his wife is such an incubus. Uh, that's correct. She called Jane Bigelow an incubus. That probably should have been succubus, right, which is the female iteration of an incubator. But we know what she meant, right, But there's really no question about her intent in describing her this way, and it

is certainly not exactly a favorable opinion of Mrs b. Yeah. So, based on his experiences during his first American tour, I was the one in the eighteen forties, Dickens had already installed security guards outside his door seven to prevent fans from entering or just in general bothering him. Throughout his second tour, and after the Hurts situation, he didn't really change his security much except for one key thing. The security guards were to keep Jane Bigelow away from his

room at all times. Yes, it's keep anyone who might want to come see me away, but especially this person. I have this image where he's like holding her picture up. He's like this, right. They all have a sketch of her in their right. Despite this obstacle of constant security trying to block the room from her, Jane continued to try to see Charles Dickens several times while he was in New York City. Each time she approached his room,

she was as requested, whisked away by security. So, now banished from dickens social circle, she started to hang around the hotel just kind of hoping to bump into him or see him, like to orchestrate an accidental Oh you're here, I'm also here. In response, Dickens started to ask his friends to kind of run defense for him and give him a warning if they saw her anyway, so he could sense carry you down to the lobby, right. I know.

She was persistent, uh so with his return across the pond. Actually, Dickens had little contact with Jane after the tour, but they found in her papers after she had passed away some correspondence with several prominent people. Among them was the writer Wilkie Collins and the poet William Cullen Bryant. Also long in that correspondence were political leaders, civil activists, and

her mother. Uh. It doesn't appear though that Jane correspondent or otherwise interfered at all with Dickens once the tour ended and he went back to London. And we mentioned these papers because contained within those letters is a twist that kind of takes this story to another level. So William Wilkie Collins was an English novelist and a playwright. He was known for writing The Moonstone, that is widely considered to be the first modern English detective novel. And

will Key was obsessed with Jane no way listen. Clearly she had something that certain people responded to positively. Her husband loved her. Her husband and Wilkie both thought she was amazing. And Jane and Wilkie corresponded and it was quite a flirtatious correspondence that actually went on for about two decades. Yeah, and um, we're not sure when it ended. It may have ended around the time of Dickens. It may have ended around the time that one of them

just got older and sicker. But Jane did pass away in February nine after she had a long illness. In the New York Times they ran her obituary, and she was noted that even in her girlhood, I'm quoting for her bright and witty conversational powers and her charming manners, they didn't mention anything about the Prince of Wales like no, and some people could not stand her. Was not ever in an obituary. It never will be. Dickens passed away

nearly twenty years before Jane did. Despite the scandalous age difference and timing of their affair, Nellie Dickens as much younger paramore. As you'll recall, She and Dickens remained together until he died of a stroke in eighteen seventy at the age of fifty eight, and when he died, the New York Times wrote, quote, death of the great novelist

mourned by the people of two continents. So you may not recognize Dickens's influence in our contemporary lives unless you see a remake of, say, a Christmas Carol every year. But his stories aren't the only thing that we rehash, we we even get to see Dickens himself as a fictional character haunt the things that we watch and the things that we play, and some of these examples they

may surprise you. Right, So Dickens shows up in the fictional worlds of our TV shows, movies, and novels as everything from a mesmerist to a character who himself stalks women. And he's also alive in video games. The Assassin Freed video games, for example, are influenced by him, including Charles Dickens's London stories missions. And it is not just his works that have lived on. His celebrity has to certainly, yes, and his style. Oh, Charles Dickens used zazzi zazzy thing.

That's right. He knows how to work as security team let me tell you and pick out a cravat apparently. Yes, So you know Dickens had a bit of a chaser. Do you have one for us today? Yes? So the chaser on this is actually because while we were prepping this episode, Maria actually texted me and said, hey, did you know that he liked sweet alcoholic punches? And I did not, but I did some research. Not either. One of the things that he was particularly fond of, and

it actually shows up in a Christmas Carol. It's part of a passage near the end when Ebenezer is a changed man and he mentions that they will discuss important matters over a smoking bishop. And that is a punch, a sweet alcoholic punch. That's a very wintertime treat. So of course I was like, how do you make a smoking bishop? I don't want to make a smoking bishop.

It's just a prolonged as you're really into it, I could see where it might be fun, but it's one of those things like you gotta plan a couple of days ahead. This is a muld muld wine right right. You have to roast oranges that are you know, pierced with clothes, and then you have to boil red wine and then soak the clove pierced roasted oranges in it, and then you add ruby port. And I'm too lazy for all this business, says the woman who made the mushroom. Right.

But here's the thing, right, like, not only is it all of this effort, but then you have a terrain of like a drink that you may or may not like. And keep in mind, I will confess up from I'm not a big wine drinker. I'm definitely a spirits lady. So I thought it might be fun to try to come up with a cocktail that kind of is inspired by and too small extent mimics the Smoking Bishop, which I am calling the Sloppy Bishop. It's pretty easy, and it's surprised me in one of the aspects of it

that I will tell you about. So the Sloppy Bishop is very easy. Um. It's three ounces of ruby port, two ounces of cranberry juice. UM. I use a low sugar cranberry juice because I don't like how sweet they can get, one ounce of triple Sex so you get that orange flavor in there, one ounce of gin Oh, a half ounce of black cherry puree, and then if you want just a dash of bitters. I like to use the Bidders that has some cinnamon in it for something like this and just give it a little stir.

I also like most of these things to be chilled beforehand, so while the original one would be a warm punch, this is definitely not. I think we need to get to you a T shirt that says and if you want to add bitters, if you want to add bitters. Well, you know, bidders change the profile of your drink, so not everyone loves them. I didn't drink them for a long time. I mean I've really only gotten into bitters in the last six months to a year, and even

so I'm like barely tiptoeing around them. But um, it didn't taste quite right to me without the bidders. It needed something to kind of like bring out some of the other flavors. Here was the part that surprised me. I made this without the gin at first, and I was just like, something isn't right, It's missing something, And

my first thought was to put vodka in it. But then, for some reason, as I went to my stash and I was like, which vodka should I pick, I saw a bottle of gin and I was like, maybe gin would actually work in this, and so I made one that was with gin and one the was with vodka. Into my shock, I preferred the gin version because you know, I'm a vodka girl. I know, I'm one not surprised that your first thought was vodka. That's your go too,

but too. I actually, when you were reading off the ingredients, was really surprised to hear jin so I I like the little story of how it came to be. Yes, we love a little experiment. We love a little A b testing at our house where they're also has to be like very careful selection of the bar wear so that you don't get confused which has which in it? Right? So I have some bar where that has ghosts etched on it, and ghosts are for Gin because they both

start with G. That's how I remembered that one. Whatever works, I didn't want to become confused to give out the wrong recipe. But that is the Sloppy Bishop, which to my surprise, I really really enjoyed. It's another one too. I know I always say this, but for anybody who likes to play around with these, but maybe finds any cocktail a little too much of the flavor too intense, you can always dilute that with your a sparkling water, a ginger ale, a lemon lime soda like a soft

lemon lime soda. Anything in that space great to mix in and just s still yummy. It gets sometimes a little more crisp because of bubbles. You could throw some champagne in there and really take off. Um. I can see what you're gonna be doing this evening. You're like, I can throw in these five other and well there

were there were. In researching the Smoking Bishop, I found out that there were other punches called like the Smoking Pope and other things, and I forget which one it was that did involve Champagne in it, and I was like, hmm, I will have to pursue that later. Uh, I feel like Jane might approve of that. She probably go with Champagne. Yeah, maybe,

I bet she would have. She would have had a sloppy Bishop with me and started, you know, smacking high level royals on the back like they're old pub friends. Isn't that how it works? Later and Charlie, oh, I'd be terrified. I'm pretty brazen him. I would be terrified to do that. So we hope you are not terrified, and that this has been a fun little adventure and an eye opener regarding the nature of Charles Dickens and his us tors. And we hope we will see you

right back here next week with Criminaliam. We'll have more stocking and Criminalia is a production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda Land, audio, Please visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.