Tragedy at the school in Ortuella

Bat bi hiru lau Watch your back, watch your back Ertzaintza's gonna get you Watch your back, watch your back Ertzaintza's gonna get you Watch your back, watch your back Oh, there's a crime here It's a coming from the Euskal Herria Gotta wash those red hands It's the crimes of the basquelands It's the crimes of the basquelands Green mountains Cozy indoors, time for red wine Time for red wine, that's right That's what it tastes best, doesn't it?

Today we're having Ramon de Bilbao A red wine It's quite well known Oops, sorry there It's very nice And it's from Rioja region We weren't sure if it was Basque Country or Spain Because the region of the wine covers both nations And in this case, even though it's called Ramon de Bilbao And Bilbao is where we are It's actually in the Spanish part And it's got a connection to the Basque Country Which was something we were gonna mention again, right?

Oh yeah, this podcast It's about crimes Yeah, so we are just discussing crimes that have to do with the Basque Country Or Basque people And it could be the whole diaspora Indeed, any tenuous connection Any tenuous connection works for us Last names that have Basque, you know, Basque names Could take place in far-reaching lands around the world

So today you've prepared a story, I believe I have, yes I have Yeah, let's see, this is a pretty sad one So this one is, I titled it The Tragedy at the School in Otoaia Oh man, children We're not getting better Poor kids I hope it was an accident This week I tried, I wanted to get away from murder Because it can be pretty tedious to hear about all the time But don't worry Douglas This story I'm about to tell you is no less tragic and horrific

I would even assert that this event was harder for those involved Considering there was no one person they could blame For the grief and the disbelief that something so horrible could befall a community This is looking deep and profound Yeah, so as a warning to our listeners This story involves the death of children And some listeners may find this to be too disturbing So be mindful of this going forward Or skip it if that's something that you find too disturbing

Indeed, it's a very sensitive topic So I'm going to recount the story, like I said Of the tragedy at the Marcelino Ugali school in Otoaia I'd like to thank my friend Anna for making this story suggestion You know, Anna of Anna and Ander Oh yes, of course So shout out to Anna and Ander if you're listening right now Thank you for the story I'm too traumatized I know who to blame Who to talk to And another note that I'd like to make is that if I go off track a few times in this story

To give our listeners some insight into the workings and history Of some of the elements in the story Just stick with me, okay?

Because I did go down a lot of I did go down a lot of rabbit holes Sounds fun Okay, so here's a little history on Otoaia Otoaia is a town and municipality located here in Vizcaya It now makes up part of Greater Bilbao I just looked it up to check exactly where it was You had to get yourself oriented Yeah, there it is It's towards the greater, the superport of Bilbao The estuary, yep But just kind of inland a little bit Yeah, right along the hills It sounds a little bit beautiful

It is now part of Greater Bilbao but until the beginning of the 19th century It was integrated into the valley of Somorostro And part of the municipality of Santurce Okay Which is where the big port is So it was part of the municipality of Santurce And in fact it was previously called Santurce or Otoaia Interesting So as you may recall we spoke of the Somorostro mines In our episode about Juan Diaz de Garayo The Sacamantecas It's true, yeah The bogeyman of Vitoria Yeah, he went there to work

He barely stayed there, right?

Yeah, he wasn't there very long But he did go there to work And actually I wanted to give a shout out to Tom Who had recommended that story to me I have to remember to thank people who have suggested different stories Deleted thank you Tom Thanks Tom We know you're out there listening Tom's also our producer engineer of the little song Yeah So yeah Hey Tom You'll recognize his name from the credits Yeah exactly So that is Tom So yeah like I said in that story about Garayo

He skipped town to Lai Lo after he paid that woman off that he had attacked Mm-hmm And so he went there to work in the mines And the towns in this area have a very long history of mining Yeah So it was at the height of the mining boom in the 19th century And the beginning of the 20th century when the population of Ortoia significantly increased And then the two municipalities separated and became simply Santurce and Ortoia

The population of Ortoia at the time of this incident was around 9,000 people Okay Today it's around 7,500 Okay So it's not a big community but it's not small Yeah Either I mean it's a small town What sort of year are we talking about when this happened?

This happened in 1980 18 Yeah Some time ago Yeah Modern times but quite some time ago 40 years ago Mm-hmm So I'm sure it had at the time and still has today like a small town feel to it Mm-hmm I've been to Santurce but I've never been to Ortoia Have you ever been?

It doesn't ring a bell I'm wondering if it's where one of my ex's brothers live And it's down that way and I'm afraid I don't remember exactly where Mm-hmm But yeah the area has definitely got that big mountain that kind of overshadows you Which has always been an iron ore source mine Mm-hmm And you know it's even an attraction because of the weird shapes of leftover rocks around And it's a cool looking area It's fun But yeah very very hard working

Maybe one day we'll all, the crew, our three person team go out there for a little field trip Sounds fun Yeah we're planning some field trips Yeah we have We want to go see these places we talk about Instagrams and something like that Mm-hmm Yeah Okay so here's where I'll put in my one sentence synopsis okay Small town suffers huge loss in the wake of an avoidable tragedy That can only be blamed on penny pinching Ooh Yeah Mm-hmm Health and safety crime Yeah

On October 23rd, 1980 the public school Marcelino Ugale served the community of Ortoia On this day 870 students were attending class in this three-story building In addition there were of course the teachers of all these students and other staff that make up the running of the school Mm-hmm The school is located between two neighborhoods Ganguren and Mendialde We know Mendee means mountain It is And Alde I think you told me means place It's kind of side like next to the mountain Oh side

Or the side of the mountain Okay Well done See I'm trying to learn my Jusquera You're great Okay so these neighborhoods are populated primarily with working class folk Many of which were from other parts of Spain Mm-hmm And when the population exploded during the expansion of the iron mining around the turn of the 20th century That's what you know there was a huge influx of people from all over the rest of the country and you know parts of the Basque Country for work

It's interesting just when you're saying that you know it's a well-known fact when you live in Bilbao that the left We call it the left side of the river Mm-hmm That that side if you look at it from the point of the river flowing down you know it's it's left side and that's known as the very working class side And it's funny I never related it to the fact that's where the mines were That's right That's why they all went to the left hand side That's very true It was because the mines were there

Yeah the other side is all the posh neighborhoods like in Quechua Yeah the owners of the mines Yeah that's best Anyways okay we know who we're talking about Yeah So at this at its peak right around the end of the 19th century this area was producing more than five million tons of phosphorus free iron ore The majority of which was shipped to Great Britain where it was used in steel manufacturing during the Industrial Revolution

Yeah and that's it's a very kind of very important part of Bilbao's development in the sense that not only did they have this export But they also because the ships were empty when they got to the UK they would come back with coal which is how they started smelting iron here in the Basque Country And that's how they actually industrialized was both selling the iron ore and then bringing back the coal from the UK and smelting and eventually shipbuilding here as well

So it's all kind of in the history Yeah so there that's the little history of the town Nice Kind of give you a background We're situated So one side of the school building sat up against the hillside and the surrounding fields As the name of the neighborhood says Mendiali Yeah Cute And it was kind of uphill from the town The other side of the school was facing the very neighborhoods that it served right

So it's pretty classic Basque school you know like in these smaller towns right there's always like the school kind of at the top of the hill And there's like fields and stuff behind it but then there's all the neighborhoods around it Yeah they'll choose a cheaper piece of land on the outskirts Yeah to build a big enough building Yeah beautiful green mountains everywhere The building itself was only eight years old with a capacity for 1,300 students and it was divided into 28 classrooms Okay

This day in October was like any other and around noon the students had just returned to their classes after their morning break So for all of our listeners outside of the Basque country or Spain in general the rumors are true the timetables are off by a few hours here compared to everybody else right So they came back from their morning break at noon whereas like in the US I would have been going to lunch at noon right And for them here they go to lunch at two

Okay that's what you mean we eat later okay I was confused Eat later yeah Oh yeah I barely went to school so I'm not sure what you're talking about there So you didn't have a timetable that you inherited Yeah I was home school till 14 and then in Brazil there's morning school there's afternoon school and there's evening school Oh

Yeah you know yeah sometimes people have to work like kids have to work so but that's why there are night schools and afternoon schools in case you're working in the morning and you have to go to school So would your school day be only like a few hours So I think morning was something like six ish to 12 6am yeah that was morning and then afternoon was like like say 1230 till 536 ish and then evening would be six ish to like 1130 at night Damn that's crazy I didn't know you went to evening school

Okay so meanwhile down in the kitchen of the school which was located in the basement city maintenance worker and plumber 52 year old Francisco Contreras was called in to look into an issue the school was having with the heating boiler Okay I keep wanting to say broiler so if I say broiler just correct me We're not cooking Boiler yeah we're not like putting anything in the oven

Okay so the boiler was located below the kitchen in a space that ran you know the entire length of the school and housed all of like the drainage piping electrical wiring you know all the mechanics that you'd find under a building right So underneath okay like Yeah it's kind of like under yeah like a sub basement below the basement Okay Because I mean the kitchen was in the basement Okay

According to the documentary that I watched on this and from what was reported later some of the staff had been complaining about a terrible odor in school. And it was surmised that the odor was resulting from an issue with septic tanks. Okay, so it seems like they were they called him for the there was the issue with the heating boiler. So okay let's leave it that.

So they came in and you know had to go look at the problem and the problem would require that Mr. Contreras would do some welding in order to resolve it. So as I said it was just before noon classes had just resumed after their morning break when a huge explosion rocked the entire school. It was felt throughout the entire school. It shook everything shattering windows on all floors jarring blackboards off the walls and shifting all of the desks and furniture in the building.

Wow. The explosion that emanated from the basement of the building and could be heard from over six kilometers away. Oh my gosh. One whole side of the building at the ground level was blown away and all of the classrooms that were on the ground floor completely collapsed into the basement dragging down with it 128 people. Yeah, 80 to 90 of which were the youngest little students.

So it was the five to six year olds in the three classrooms on the ground floor which were like the first year primary EBG no EGB course. Okay, I've heard that I don't what does he GV Well, I'm about to tell you because I also had to look at because the thing is, and that was a little break from this tragedy for a second. Yeah, to go into the school system here every every school system is so different. Yeah. And I was barely in any school system.

Well, I'm actually really glad you asked because I was like, somebody might ask me about this and I'm going to have to know, I was afraid you were going to look into it. Okay, so, EGB stands for education education general basic so general basic education. So at that time, schooling for all children was free and compulsory until the age of 14.

It has since been changed. And today basic compulsory education consists of primary education until about age 12, and then secondary education now called ESL. So it's no longer called EGB it doesn't exist anymore. Right. Which, yes, so is obligatory secondary education. Okay, that does that finish at 14 as well. No, now that is that now requires the basic education is until the age of 16.

Okay. So here's a little an extra little insight into the educational system. At the time of this tragedy in 1980, Spain's education system was based entirely on the LGE, which I think stands for general law of education. It makes sense. The question probably, which was from 1970 until 1984, often referred to as the VR policy law, after the Minister of Education and Science at the time, Jose Luis Villar Palacios.

This law was the Franco government's attempt to modernize Spain's public education system. And although it's been added to and modified since the return of democracy, and with the establishment of the 1978 Spanish Constitution, post Franco's death in 1975, the structure it established was still nearly completely intact, well into the 1980s. Okay, so that's where the EGB that I think that's yes, when that was still functioning under at the time of this.

So there you go. All right, well, should we take a little break before we get back to the really horror, horrible story. Yes. Everybody more wine. Okay, bye.

We're back. We're back little time for a special effect. Nice. Now you're on the beer no more wine for Douglas clang clang it means delicious but you know, I just like the taste of it. It's very refreshing. Okay, so back to our horrendous story. So in this part of the episode, I'm going to be going into testimonials from people. And so there might be descriptions in here that are disturbing so if that's too much for you then maybe you should move on or skip ahead.

But Douglas you don't have that luxury so now you just have to sit here and take it. I'm here. Okay. I mean, I'm easier if it's not with images you know if it's with images I can't escape it. Yeah, my imagination I can I think I can I think I can deal with it. Let's give it a try. All right. Here we go. The school explodes. Yep. It's kind of I'm guessing it's some kind of gas I mean, this is not spoiling anything any part of the story, I think.

Well, it's unknown at this point. Yes, right. Why it was an explosion and there was a plumber that had, he had some kind of soldering. Yeah, like a wedding. Well, then that's why I came in to fix the boiler and get you to do some welding. So, as I said the entire ground floor of the building had collapsed into the basement, along with all the little babies in the first year primary class my gosh. So all the five and six year olds.

My gosh. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, it feels like I'm gonna. I always say this but you know that's what you get with dictatorships that don't give a fuck about their people you know they just build these crappy buildings and schools and they're not accountable for anything and in the way. I mean, I'm not this. Yeah, I guess it would have been built it was eight years old it would have been built during Franco's. Yeah, it was still alive. Yeah, so just substandard everything. Unfortunately.

So, as this was such an enormous explosion that couldn't be missed by anyone in the surrounding area, the first ones to respond were of course the neighbors. And of the school and you know and the surroundings. Yeah, make sense. So, one witness was Jose Lorenzo Diego, who was working in a fish market located just 10 meters from the school. He recounted, quote, I heard the explosion, which tore the door off of the shop and threw me to the ground.

As soon as I recovered, I looked out and saw what was happening at the school, where I had three grandchildren. Oh my gosh. I ran out there. There were devastating screams, the voices of the wounded on the one hand, and the cries of the children on the first and second floors, who jumped out of the windows and ran towards the neighboring fields. They were coming and going without knowing what to do.

Upon arrival I found four or five other men who had begun to extract the children from the rubble. I wanted to look for my grandchildren, but first I helped to get three children out, they were dead. I had one of my granddaughters, and she along with her mother found the other two kids in the field above the school. End quote. So his kids, her grandkids. Luckily survived. Yeah, still traumatizing enough. That's totally.

Another witness and first responder was unemployed worker Pedro Cayet, Cayetjo. He said that of the day quote, I was taking a walk with my son who was not yet going to school by the field that's just above the school. It so happens that I was looking towards the school and saw everything. That is the glass shattering and pieces of the wall that jumped the collapse of the wall on the left of the building. I left my child with a lady and ran down to help.

I helped get a teacher out who was half dead busted. There were mutilated children without heads. Oh my God, one arm, something terrible. We got about 15 or more out before the ambulances arrived, leaving them under the shed opposite the entrance. The most terrible thing was the screams and the cries of the children and later of the mothers who were arriving.

Quote. Wow. Right. So the shed he's referring to is like the huge covered area over like a patio where the kids can play at recess and not get wet. This is pretty common to see at schools and playgrounds here. It's a very wet region. Yeah. So this is this covered area is where many of the perished victims were laid while waiting for official responders to to arrive.

And that's horrible. I know Jaime Rodriguez, but it has an afternoon shift worker at the Babcock and Wilcox company was working in a small orchard. Adjoining the school when around 10 minutes to 12, he heard the explosion. Jaime, father of two boys and one girl, all three students at the school, ran to the affected area of the building and according to him, found himself in a Dante esque spectacle.

Absolutely. Quote. The children were thrown out of the windows like while the remains of others appeared on the front of the building. And quote. Oh, man, I know it's really terrible. I know. Horrible. But, you know, these are like witness accounts. This is what they saw and yeah, we're dealing with. Yeah.

Three other people, residents of the apartment building located in front of the school, which was also affected by the blasts expansive wave began together with Jaime Rodriguez, the task of clearing debris. The group was joined shortly after by some teachers from the classrooms on the first floor, where some of the children were also injured, although not seriously. And they were all joined by other residents of the area.

So within minutes, the community immediately mobilized to assist the injured and to search for survivors in the wake of the explosion, including the mayor of Artoria Manuel Fernandez Ramos. And it made a note in the paper that he was a socialist. But that was kind of funny. Well, Fernandez Ramos, a socialist. In the time they're just coming out of dictatorship. So I guess so that was like something to point out, right? It's both both reaffirming and also kind of new. Right.

Yeah, I'm all I'm kind of tearing up. I'm sorry. I know, I know, I know. It's really sad. It's okay. I'm sorry. You know, it's it's truth and we have to hear it. I think it's such an important part of the history. And I think people maybe should talk more about it. Right. Because it's very traumatic. Yeah. Anyway, so the mayor arrived around noon.

He arrived on the scene recalling quote, When I heard the explosion, I ran up the hill to the school. I saw upon arrival, the most terrible scene of my life. Some children came out on foot, despite the fact that they were bleeding and a little I'm mutilated. I went to autopilot. I began to help those who were already working among the rubble. Yeah, we took out two children.

Suddenly I realized what I had to do was tell someone to ask for help. Yeah. So I went back down, found a phone and raise the alarm. Assumption, Laura, Laura, so Rena, who was 10 years old at the time was on the first floor. And this is her quote. The teacher had not come that day she relates, because she was going to have a baby and she'd gone to the doctor. So a teacher came in to take over the class and we convinced him to let us play. So you were pretending to be ballet dancers.

Suddenly there was a very loud explosion, which made the tables and glass jump. Some children were bleeding a lot and we couldn't breathe. Almost everyone jumped off the window. I was going to go out, but the blackboard fell on me and I was left alone. Then the teacher came back and took me out outside. There were many children and others were screaming. And that's horrible. I'm almost through with these testimonials. Okay. Yeah, no, no, it's okay.

I mean, you know, we see so many disasters on TV, you know, like water, floods and earthquakes. And we don't get these testimonials. It's just a number. Yeah. So like traumatizing. Yeah. Yeah. But also to understand that you kind of need to hear some testimonials. All right. Yeah. Because otherwise it's just a number. Right. Yeah. It's just like this many people died in the flooding. You know, yeah. Yeah. Earthquakes and things like that. So Maria Teresa or much.

Yeah. My chair, my chair, my chair, teacher and director of the center was also on the first floor in the secondary in the second year primary EGP classroom. Her son was on the ground floor. Wow. And one of the classes for the little ones. So she recalled, quote, I felt the explosion. I started pulling the children out of the window.

Then I saw what had happened downstairs, end quote, her nightmare, knowing that her son was somewhere within the affected area of the building, filled her with dread and panic. The uncertainty of this fate very much matched the turmoil that many were experiencing in the media aftermath. So, according to the testimonies of those in the neighborhood, people weren't sure what had happened until the whole neighborhood went into a panic.

And everyone started heading up the hill to the school to help or check on the children. Because if you had children, they most certainly were at the school. It was the only school in town. Yeah. So that's crazy. Yeah. I mean, you know, when you when you said started saying that this guy was in the shop and the fish market, you know, and then you said he had three grandchildren there. Of course, you know, everybody has everybody has that like know some kid there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And what I was going to point out, it's such a small place, too, you know. Yeah. And I don't think people's minds would go there necessarily. But it is a time when Etta was I'll get there was an active movement and it is the independence movement. And they had lots of bombs. Of course, that was directed mostly toward politicians, but not only. So, yeah, it's an ambiguous situation. Yeah. It's not a war, but nobody knows what's happening. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like not sure. Yeah. What's happening. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. So once the alarm had been raised and emergency services had been called in, people from all over the area converged on the area to help out, including the workers from the mines, the local mines and factories who while still wearing their blue workwear. That was the standard where you're not going to change clothes, pull overs or the coveralls. I guess you call them people that work in factories were coveralls.

I'll let you use any word. I think they're all except them. Yeah. I'll say suit. Anything you want to call it. I mean, it's beautiful that everybody. Yeah. Like everybody went into action. It's pretty incredible. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's a beautiful thing of the best country. Yeah. The community. We see community very often. Yeah. Yeah.

So they all these people, all these people came in from everywhere, all the factories and the mines, and they organize several rescue brigades in the workers unions, CCO, which is commission is over. That is our workers commissions and the UGT union general the travel, general union of workers, some of the members of the left bank of the Nervion. So that's the region you're talking to. Yeah. The side of the roof where all this happened.

The less than everyone is the estuary or the river that wants to build out. They were able to summon all the members all along there by radio or by telephone to get to go to blood donation centers. So they were organizing like blood donations.

200 volunteers from the Red Cross, along with nurses and doctors from Kruthus Hospital and outpatient clinics in the mining area provided first aid to the wounded workers from the factories on the left bank of the estuary were in charge of organizing traffic on the road from center say to build out, leaving only one one of the roads permanently clear along which only ambulances could travel.

So this is like huge community effort. Yeah, so we're getting together like pretty quickly. Yeah, that's surprising. Yeah, it's crazy. So, the police and the fire brigade and other emergency responders arrived on the scene, which according to some trust and monies it wasn't until around quarter to one took them a while to like get there and maybe it's because it took a while for someone to actually call. Yeah, right, like to raise the alarm because people just went straight to help.

Yeah, and then didn't, you know, like, oh crap, we got to call somebody to help us out here you know. Yeah, you, you put the mayor's testimony in the right place where you saw that he kind of reacted immediately. I'm the one in charge here. It's a small town. Yep. But then my duty here is to like, get some serious, you know, get help here.

It's incredible how those things have changed because today you know you couldn't, you couldn't have five minutes without somebody just calling on their own mobile and right those times you know you had to actually go to find a phone. Yeah, there weren't that many they were expensive.

It's, it's crazy. It doesn't feel that long ago. I mean it was born in 1980. It's a long time ago but yeah, it was a very different kind of society right with pre mobile we just nevermind the internet, etc. So, um, so it's one of the more emergency responders relate a similar reaction to coming upon the scene saying it was absolutely horrific. Like nothing they'd ever seen before in the line of work.

In addition, the Guardia Civil, which we've mentioned a few times on our podcasts, which is the, you know, Civil Guard or the federal police. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say it's like a national guard but there's another one called the national police and national so I know I never know too many police and I don't know federal is even the right word but that's what I think of it because American I think it is a spans the whole country

clearly isn't philosophy and this is us like yeah yeah a federation has equality between its members and the kingdom which is what we are does not clearly a king. Okay, there's this subject regions. So this is the Civil Guard. Right. And it's throughout the whole nation. So, so in addition the Guardia Civil had to try to get the citizens, the parents teachers neighbors etc that were searching in the rubble away from the building.

As some of them were themselves becoming injured, right, pulling up rubble of course they're desperate there. Yeah. And they were needing first aid themselves. And so then another concern was that all of the citizens around trying to help or putting themselves in danger as the upper floors of the school, or one of the other lateral walls were in danger of collapsing at any minute.

So a cordon had to be formed by the Civil Guard to try and with great difficulty to keep parents and neighbors away from the building so you know you wouldn't be thinking straight as a parent or neighbor you'd be trying to get. Yeah, to get in and help and do what you could find your children or whatever. So the rescue operation had to not only transport the wounded but recover the dead and tend to the parents at the scene.

The residents were summoned to the town hall around two o'clock to view the lists of the enrolled students in order to establish like a definitive account of victims. And there were so many victims that there weren't enough ambulances to transport the injured to the hospital and therefore people were also transporting them to the hospital in private cars of course yeah.

So, sorry, of the 50 or so wounded victims that were pulled out and taken to hospital about 10 to 11 of them later died injuries. That's already a lot but there's wasn't there almost 200 people in the school. There was 870 800 children. Yeah, not including the teachers and staff. Okay. So the more than, of course, everybody's like overwhelmed at the hospital to, yeah, right. Which is like the largest hospital in the area which is in Caldor.

It's north of here it's closer to them than it is to us, then like the sort of closer to build balance center but like, yeah, it's kind of the biggest one I think it's kind of halfway from here to or to I think, yeah, pretty, pretty, pretty close to halfway. It's good for access for them. But, yeah. Overwhelmed, and you know they had in the documentary watch they have people talking about what it was like for them to be taking in all these patients and kids.

Yeah, crazy. So, the morgue at the hospital wasn't even large enough for all of the perished, and in the end they had to establish a space which is essentially like a large room to accommodate all of those who had lost their lives. When it came time for family members to then identify their loved ones it was yet another agonizing ordeal, because we're talking about mostly young children. And many of them have been disfigured because of the nature of the disaster.

And, you know, the victims either died from the explosion itself or from being crushed from the building collapsed. So, the hospital staff had to like sedate many of the parents, of course, asking them to identify their loved ones. And they further tried to lessen their trauma by having them only identify the clothing that the children were wearing that day. That's a good move. I've never heard of that. But, yeah, that sounds like the thing to do, especially with the scale of the problem.

Yeah, that's incredible. And everyone involved in this tragedy was extremely affected by this event. And those who made up the rescue operation and the hospital staff testified that it was one of their worst days on the job. And obviously the parents of the deceased were deeply grieving, but the whole community was touched by it. Because it was, you know, like we were saying, such a small community. And it traumatized everyone. And many of those community members would know.

Yeah. If they weren't people affected, their children, nieces and nephews or grandchildren, neighbors, or friends, their friends, kids, you know, their friends of their kids. And yeah. And when it's divided by age, it's just a class. And so, you know, it just affects everybody in the community. Yeah. It's crazy. So all told, 49 children died. Wow. And three adults. A lot of people. I know.

And the 49 children made up most of the class of those first year primary students, the five and six year olds. Yeah. That's a hard one. So including the son of the witness I mentioned earlier, Maria Teresa, the director of the school. Yeah. So from that class, only four children survived. Wow. I mean, I guess it was close to the source of the explosion. Well, it was the whole ground floor. Right. So that was the one that collapsed into the basement. Okay. So they just got crushed by a rubble.

I mean, or the explosion was right there. Right. So because it occurred in the basement, which is right below their classroom, which then collapsed the floor of the whole building. Yeah. I'm just hoping we're going to have better building standards after this tragedy. I'm sorry. And grasp it. I know. It did change things. Good, good. I'm happy. Yeah. For something. So, you know, it essentially wiped out that whole generation of that age group.

That's like 95% of that generation between five and six years old was wiped out. That is horrible. Yeah. Among the adults whose lives were lost were two teachers and the school's cook who was in the basement kitchen. Two of the children's survivors were interviewed in the documentary that I watched and they recounted how they managed to survive. One girl was at her teacher's desk showing her something she'd done or was asking her a question when the explosion occurred.

And she somehow ended up under the desk when it happened, which protected her from the collapse of the building. Right. She recalled how she was in and out of her consciousness, but could hear the neighbors and parents digging in the rubble. And at one point she could actually see her mother's skirt and which prompted her to like call out and alert the searchers to her location. Wow. That's an intimate story at the same time. It's crazy.

And one of the photos that appeared in the newspapers, because of course it's all the same photos you'll see over and over again. It was the 80s. Two people had cameras. Right. So it's all the same photos. Yeah. So one of the photos that appeared in the newspapers from that day is her being carried out to her mother. The other survivor only remembers that right before the blast, they were in art class making things with Play-Doh.

And he just happened to live because two huge slabs of concrete fell and landed like a tent over him. So he became pinned underneath them in the space that was created below it. Some people are lucky. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's unlucky to be an explosion, but still. Yeah. So, yeah, that's that's the day. So let's take a break and then we'll talk about what the aftermath.

All right. And we're back. OK, so the aftermath. All right. So a joint funeral was held for all the victims. So they did a funeral for everyone at the same time. I feel about that. I never I mean, joint wedding. OK, but it was like a community thing. It was something everybody went through. So it was like, I can get it. I get it. Like in the sense that like it does make everybody knew everyone was affected by it.

And like, you know, even if it wasn't directly like a relation of yours that died, you probably knew the other kids that died somehow because they were friends of the child that you knew or the child that was part of your family. You know what I mean? So like it was like, yeah, I get it. So my they did a joint funeral. My my just my my gut reaction is like, oh, you know, let's say I love my child. I just don't want them to get lost, you know, in the sea of things.

I don't think they would. I think it's like a mass, you know, like a grieving mass. So, yeah, well, like I'm saying, the outpouring of grief, sorry, for this community spread throughout the entire nation, like all of Spain. Happy to hear. Well, and the organizers anticipated an enormous turnout for any and all of these funerals that were going to be taking place for this tragedy. Just I'm just I'm just troubled with your word nation. Their nation is not appropriate here.

It's just this. Well, I'll say country Spain and the whole country. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So it was held in an industrial pavilion, which was used for shipbuilding at the time. Pretty heavy. Use this huge space where more than seven thousand people attended. This funeral. Wow. And there's footage of this funeral. Wow. It's also just so astounding to see. Was this in the documentary? Imagine you watched. Yeah.

Like I never I mean, I might have heard that name, but I never realized the intensity of that tragedy. Yeah. Well, when you watch that, what what what were your thoughts went through your head like because, you know, well, I mean, it's astounding to see when you see in in the amount of coffins. Right. It's just yeah, it's just like crazy how many people died that day. Yeah. Children. Yeah. Mostly, you know.

Yeah. Very, very sad. And and everybody in the whole country was feeling that like everyone could relate in a way. Of course. Yeah. Like losing a child like that. Yeah. Classrooms and community. Yeah. Intense. Yeah. So, you know, and there's also like, I mean, because it was so such a big story in the whole country that the Queen was, you know, there's footage of the Queen visiting the kids that had survived in the hospital.

You know, so it's just like they can do all over the press. It was all over everywhere. I'm sorry. It was just like everywhere. And at the same time, I'm happy to do it at the same time. I feel this is like you use of those emotions, you know, it's but I think, you know, I would rather they come and pay their respects.

That's the minimum. I think that's all anyone was doing at this time. So, I mean, it just rocked everybody. Everybody was just shocked. And like, it was just an unfathomable. Yeah. Like tragedy that just, you know, you lose your kids where you think they should be safe at school. And yeah, just horrified everyone everywhere. Of course.

So how did this happen? Well, in the immediate aftermath, the rumor spread that it was a terrorist attack by Etta, right? It was the 1980s after all, and things were popping off at the time. And I really honestly don't care to go into all the ins and outs of it at this point. No, I mean, we're with, you know, just Google at time. There's a Wikipedia page if you're interested in an independence movement.

What does that mean? So this rumor spread and it was even specular, you know, speculated upon in the press and it stuck for a while until an actual formal investigation and criminal trial took place. So it turns out that the cause of the explosion as you nailed it before Douglas was none other than a propane gas leak.

Yeah. Oh, so it was propane and not related to the the sewage system because I thought it could have been gas from the sewage system as well. Okay. Because, you know, there's a lot of gas coming from enough to cause that big of an explosion. Oh, yeah. I know that methane gas is pretty you can produce it from my cow shit. Like there's yeah, I know that's like one of the biggest polluters. Right. And the world today is methane.

Yeah, but then there there's an ambiguity there because it is true that if you just leave a cow in the field, it will be farting and burping. And that's going to release CO2. But the fact is the matter is that if you just collect its poo and put it in a vat, you're going to collect collect a lot of gas as well.

And this is an industrial process. Some farms collect the poo, put it in a vat and there's tons of gas that gets out there. You can run your whole farm on the methane that comes from just the the hard solids. Exactly. I was trying to look for a better word. Come on or bullshit. Yeah. So the live animal and when it comes out, it's still producing the CO2. So, you know, if you have bad piping, you can definitely accumulate a lot.

I'm like now having like flashbacks of hearing stories about how there have been explosions of something from methane. Yes. And from somebody's farm or from cows party or something. I can't I cannot right now go into my files into my brain and remember the story that I heard.

But there's a number of cases. I have heard of them. Yeah, it's true. But anyway, don't hold me to that, please. Honestly, it's something that like one of those pieces of news that you take in at some point and then you took half the information right to happen. And then the fourth of that stayed. But anyway, we all know gas explodes if you if you present it to propane though. All right. Stick to the propane. It's a kind of gas.

All right. So I'm going to do my best at explaining how this occurred. So stick with me because it's about to get technical. And so keep holding on to that chapella. Boom, boom, boom, holding, holding. OK. So first of all, there was no one person to blame for what happened that day. Yet it was an accumulation of many factors. Poorly completed construction jobs, standardized building plans and cost saving measures. Are we saying lack of standardized or standardized building plans.

This was one of the problem, one of the issues. So as you recall, the best and as you will call it, like there was they had called in that city maintenance worker, the plumber, Mr. Contreras. Well, I remember to tend to an issue with the school's boiler, which and his presence that day also played a part in what happened. So we'll get back to him later.

OK. All right. So. All right. Here we go. This is the homework I had to do for this episode, which made it a really hard. I had to do homework and study stuff and wrap my head around things because this stuff, you know, I don't really care about that much. So, I mean, next time, don't worry about the tech. No, because if I have questions about it, then I know that other people might have questions about it. So if I'm like, wait, what? Then I know that I better figure out the answer to that.

So then I have to go find the answer to that. Right. So thank you for the effort. So here we go. This is the best of my ability. So underneath the school underground ran various piping systems, right. Electrical and propane. Oh, so they're already sounding terrible. They could be like propane pipes that, you know, fed the whole community and electrical systems that fed the the the community and or the like the railway that was nearby. Right. So there was just a lot of like piping. Right.

Okay. So firstly, to address the issue of the poorly completed construction jobs that I mentioned. So apparently the electrical piping and wiring that ran under the school were not properly encased in cement when they were installed. So this is required because of the nature of electrical current. Right. It's like positive and negative running back and forth.

Well, there's sparks if there's bad. Well, they have to go back and forth and then hit like, I don't see this is the shit I read about. And now I can't explain. I think the issue is there's a possibility of sparks which could ignite gas. I think in the end of the day, that's what we're no. No. Okay. That's not what happened.

No, I think that's a danger. Okay. So they weren't properly encased. And if so, they prevent if it's properly encased in the cement like it should be, then it would prevent the electrical current from escaping that area and therefore corroding other metal piping in the area or the vicinity of that electrical current.

Okay. I'm gonna just careful. I don't think electrical current corrodes anything. But well, it does. There's a name for it. Okay. I'm going to get to interesting learning. So as this can be an issue by law at the time, all industrial infrastructure had to be built with what is called catathonic protection in all metal piping.

So, like I said, I had to look into all this because I don't know shit about this stuff that you can see. Even I was Trump. So, yeah. So the propane lines were required to have this type of protection in the piping to protect the metals used in the pipeline against what's called electro. We sees, which is the corrosion of metals by electrical current. Okay. Are you still with me? I am. I didn't know what that that meant. That this is very fascinating. What you don't know what meant. Electro.

That's what it's called is when when those I guess when the yeah, no, you said it was a corrosion of metal through electricity, which yeah, I didn't know. Like it's like it's hitting against it so often that it just corrodes the metal. Right. That makes sense. Yeah.

So now let's talk about the school's design. Okay. So when we get to the school's design and the cost saving measures that they played a part at the time the building was constructed, it was using a like a standard standardized design, which was in common use throughout the country.

So, and this is one way that they would save money by just adopting a design that was like a standardized. This is public school. Yeah. Classic dictatorship. Don't don't don't think whether it's a rainy architectural design and then just build them all the same.

So in the case of Marcelino or God, they which was built on a hillside, it meant that a huge basement was built underground, which in other areas, if it was like built on like flat terrain, it would have been built on like as the first floor or the ground floor of the building.

But here, because it was on the hillside, the foundation was not adapted to, you know, to be well, because it was a basement. Yeah, they decided to put in a basement. Yeah. So that ground floor became like the basement. Right. And at the time it wasn't required for non industrial buildings to have cathodic protection protection that they use for to prevent electrolysis on its propane lines, and when they built the school they opted out of including this protection because it was costly.

So the lines that ran under the school became corroded from electrostasis, causing the perforations in a few sections of the propane line, which resulted in a leak. So, now, normally the leak would just go into the ground and not cause any immediate problems. But because propane is heavier than air it naturally goes in the direction of least resistance and into low lying areas, I thought it would float higher, no, we're heavier.

Wow, interesting. So the propane in this case went through the ground, because it was underground lines were, and it entered into the school through a hole in the electrical tubing that led into the basement of the school. So there's like a hole in the electrical tubing, and then that the propane went into that hole and then it led into this school via that tubing. It's another tube inside the school though right.

So it got into the tubing that was in the electrical tubing that was for the school. Right. And so it's heavy, so it didn't go anywhere. Once it stayed in the basement stayed in the basement yeah just all collected into the basement right accumulating, which, and the basement itself extended the entire length of the school. So it was just like that whole basement with propane. Okay, so I can see you're following me good.

I mean, I'm hoping I'm explaining this well just just to link up with with other stories, we had a mini crime time with the minor who died in explosion and it sounds like another case where more sort of canaries, we should be walking around I know there's canaries everywhere, or something, install a canary in our phone Apple Come on, come on. So you'd think if there was so much propane collecting in the basement of a building someone would notice right.

Well, I actually know that the smell of propane is added post, it's actually a thing we do exactly by itself it's not right propane gas itself is odorless. However, when used for domestic purposes, a substance is added to make it smell really fucking bad, just so that you can detect leaks, and I've detected it a few times in my life. Wow. Yeah, it's a strong, clear smell for me. Okay. Yeah, for sure.

I mean just lucky you that you detected it. I mean, you know, in Latin America, it's very common to have, I guess we call it propane I never knew it until today but like the propane gas, you know you just have to connect it manually every time you change it so you know these things leak and quite a few times I was like, you didn't close it properly. Yeah. And that's why they had this smell, and that had did have smell though because of the danger I had that that advantage. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

So, um, it's been speculated that as the gas path through passed through the ground before entering that tubing that led into the basement. It passed through the clay and the earth, which acted as a filter, causing it to lose some of that odor. Oh, right. However, post explosion, it was said that some of the school staff had complained about an unpleasant smell, and it was written off as a septic problem.

They were maybe not even used to the fact that that was a smell of gas at the time because it seems like it would be in a new introduction right I was like, when did they start doing that because I don't know. Yeah, right. Wow. Yeah, that's crazy. So let's talk about our plumber and his role in this. Mr. Contreras was called in to address an issue with the school. Oh, sorry that the school is having with the boiler, almost called it broiler.

You made it with the boiler located in none other than the basement. Right, I think it was below from what I've gathered from the reenactments I saw the documentary. It seems as though there was like the basement where the kitchen stuff was. And then there was a lower kind of like, like, you know, space type basement below that, where all the piping and everything was okay. That's what it seemed to look like like they had to access the lower below the kitchen.

So all this propane is collecting in that area right over time. And even more unfortunate was the fact that he'd have to do some welding. Yeah, so it was when he proceeded to light the blow torch or the, the, whatever the torch or whatever he had to use to do welding. It sparked the explosion. Yeah. He miraculously survived. No way. Yeah. Yes. Yes. One explanation is that the explosion caused an air current pushing the gas to the other side of the room and igniting in front of him. Wow.

Like blowing him backwards and away from the fire. Yeah. So, like, you, yeah, physics. So, yeah, crazy. So you might be thinking that what a lucky guy. No. Okay. No, of course his presence at the school that day and being the unwitting like catalyst for the explosion made him like the scapegoat for the event. I mean, it's clearly not his fault. For some people. Yeah, I know. But of course he didn't escape. Okay. Not being blamed. Right.

So this poor man suffered from harassment. Really? He had his car set on fire. He was beat up a few times. I mean, the whole community is traumatized. But I know you have to look for somebody. I mean, we also need some of the evidence first. Yeah, it's natural for somebody to like find someone to blame. Right. Yes. Natural. Not just the fire. Yeah. Okay. Well, natural in the sense that like, sure, we understand a lot of grief and they just don't know what to do with it. Right. So, yeah.

But you know, but this is considering the fact that he had a daughter that was in the school at the time. Oh my god. He had a nine year old daughter that was attending school at the time. So it's not like that's enough reason not to do anything to him. I know. Right. Like he's also like everyone's affected. Right. So anyway.

And then, you know, like, and then they went on to speculate that like, what if he had come later that afternoon, or if he'd come a week later, or even a month later, how much propane would have been had collected makes sense. That could have been way more way more and caused even more. Yeah, it's actually true. Wow. Yeah, bigger explosion, you know. Maybe we should take a break because it's let's do that we have we have we yes, and then we'll get into like the the trial and stuff.

Okay, let's see you in a second. Hello everybody. Okay, so that's what happened. It was a propane link. In the end, there was an investigation and a trial, and it was decided that there was no one person responsible for the commission of a criminal act, if you will, it was ruled.

If one were to be blamed, it was decided that it was to be the state educational system, as they had not exercised all due diligence to ensure that the state of the pipes would be such that there would be no risk of leaks, and therefore not allowing the gas to accumulate as it did. Okay. Okay. So, the state did take responsible responsibility, and it compensated the families of the victims. Oh wow, I'm happy to hear that. Wow. So for each child's death the family was paid 2 million for set does.

Yeah, was that 6000 per million, 12,000 dock I watched when it aired the time that it aired and I don't know what year it aired, because I didn't look into it. They had worked out that the sum would be equivalent to like six to 7 million percent does counting for inflation,

you know, oh, so what do you think that is in euros today, I'm going to let you try to decide what six to 7 million percent as would be in euros, it's actually a coincidence in life that pesetas and yen, pretty much equivalent. Oh, okay. So maybe you can work it out. So, two million, I think would be 12,000 euros. Okay, and then counting for inflation so you said to six to 7 million percent does 72. No, what did I do.

Did I skip a number numbers. 3640 really clear to find either of us are very good for it. 42,000 euros is my answer. That's a pretty good estimate. Thank you. So, six to 7 million percent is today is between 36 to 42 million or 32 to 42,000 euros. Toma as they would say here. Wait a minute. Wow, that's pretty good. That was the good math. So, um, you know, that's really actually not that much 36,000 42,000. Absolutely not not for for losing a child. Yeah, of course.

Of course, no, never. I'm happy something was done. Yeah. In addition to that, the only silver lining if there is one, it might be that legislation was passed at this time as a result of this tragedy, good demanding that all propane piping had to include cat cathodic protection to prevent erosion and leaks.

Good. Excellent. So, you know, before it was only for industrial facilities, right. So now it was for any and all good infrastructures. Good. Well, that's unfortunately how we advanced with standards we have to wait for tragedy. Something has to happen in order for something to change. And we fix it. Yeah. After this happened in October of 1980. The school school didn't commence in or Twyja until almost the end of the course.

And even then, all of the students were divided and sent to various locations in town to attend class while the school is being rebuilt. Some went to churches or even the priest's house, some said for class, right in order to accommodate everyone.

It was commonplace to have like two hours of class a day. And then they would leave to allow for another set of students to come in for their two hours of class. So that's how it went for a while. So according to those interviews who survived, it wasn't until they were able to reincorporate all the students into some prefabricated buildings that functioned as a school building that the real loss of so many children was felt.

So like for a time there was they were just all kind of separated and sent to different places to take, you know, to do school. And it wasn't until they all kind of came back together that they were like realized that like, oh my God, there's like so many kids gone. Yeah. I mean, the thing that hits me in a sort of indirect way when you mentioned that part is, oops, we're six here.

You know, there's a year that's not there. Whatever your would be. It just hold the whole primary. There was no class for them. I guess two kids survived for sorry for it was a yeah, that's not enough for a class. But no, that's that's really when it hits home. Right. Another interesting fact that was mentioned in the documentary. It was by like a sociologist who said that as part of this aftermath, the birth rate in Portoya practically doubled in the year 1981. So the year after interesting.

So it went from 154 births to 324 births. Wow. And then the year after that, it went back to 160. Wow. So it went back to kind of like the was normally how interesting. Yeah, I would never have guessed that direction. I would have made the opposite, you know, yeah. Out of trauma, but hey, human resilience is incredible. Yeah. So that was the trial and everything and like kind of the aftermath. So today there stands a monument as a memorial to all those who lost their lives that terrible day.

It's called La Rosa Truncada or the truncated rose. I had to look up with truncated mint, but I'm gonna ask you, Douglas, do you know what that means? I would imagine it's it's usually referring to a plant that hasn't had the option to grow perfectly and it's just struggled for water struggled for everything. And it's just, yeah, just very sub par. You're pretty close. So it means shortened by or as if having a part cut off or cut short. Almost like a box.

It's fitting right. Yeah, to be cut short. Their lives were cut short. Right. Absolutely. Inscribed at the base of the monument is the following. De los niños de España a los niños de Ortoella por la catástrofe ocurrida en el colegio Marcelino Gualde, 23 de October 1980. Okay. So that means from the children of Spain to the children of Ortoella for the catastrophe that occurred at the school Marcelino Gualde on the 23rd of October 1980.

And I looked on Google Maps to see if I could find the monument and I found it. Oh, nice. I went to the street view and everything. It can be found like at what they said was like to me narrow it be there. Yeah. So it's downtown, easy to easy to find. Yeah, it's pretty, I think it's pretty prominent and I and every I think every year what I gathered because I saw a couple of like news footage clips was well I saw I saw the one that was like the 40 years after the tragedy.

But I it seems like every year they they do like they put some white roses on the memorial to commemorate the not like a white rose for every of the big for each one of the victims. That's very sweet with the name of the monument as a truncated rose and the Rosa that's very sweet. Yeah, I like that gesture. In addition to that in the town cemetery you can find another memorial which is called the wall of pain that's like a direct translation. Right. Yeah. And I believe it holds all of the tombs.

Oh, well, it's all of the tombs of the victims, the tragedy. So it's like sheer size of it like captures really the magnitude of loss. Yeah, that town felt, I'm sure. That sounds like 50 what 53 people. Yeah, yeah, that's our 52 people, whatever the size just the number of names is clearly. Yeah, weighty.

So I'm really sorry for the bummer of a story. But in some ways I thought it might be easier to retell something like this as it was more or less like an accident, where other, you know, whereas other crimes are like the result of somebody being an asshole. Yeah, you know.

And therefore there's somewhere to place your outrage you know like a specific person to put your outrage and grief on you know harder in this case. Yeah, but in this case it's just one of those things that happen every once in a while. You know, that while they are really tragic and horrible they tend to improve safety measures. Yeah, they improve those safety measures that are necessary to keep people safe.

Just a little add on to this episode. Yeah, we have a friend here who has a connection to this story in some way. So let's introduce our friend Ramon Hi Ramon Hi guys, thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you for coming. We love having guests. You're our first.

We talked about the story of our Twitter and the school and everything that happened there. So what was the connection that you had. So, the architect of the school was a family for long life long family friend of my father's especially. He was a very kind man. Very good with kids. And he used to give my father, small books area with poems he would write. Okay, we would all read them both my parents and myself. Very simple very, very beautiful stuff.

And lifelong friends, a lot of affection between them. And when this happened, and it just blew on the press. Yeah. And then pressure started to happen what I mean by this. Back in the day this was 83 if I recall correctly, 1983. So, back then, at that, so they were very active and very influential and powerful at the time.

So, at I was at a point, an operational point where it felt strong, and it felt safe because they could retreat beyond the French border and they would be safe there, the French authorities wouldn't intervene so it was a safe haven for them. So they started thinking of what comes after the revolution or whatever you want to call it happens and succeeds.

And this was to begin to double in justice, in a way, deciding on matters other than deliberation fighter whatever is, whatever is the freedom fighter freedom fighting yeah exactly freedom fighting. So, they started making hits against drug dealers and pressuring against the construction or the construction of the nuclear power station in Lemoyth.

And among other things when issues of this sort came to the public light, they felt that they had the need, they needed to make the presence felt and take action, right yeah inevitable action because they hardly knew anything else was potentially killing, or at least scaring the

hell out of this man. So, at the time, my father had, so he wasn't politically active, he's never been, but he had connections, and he knew this world fairly well and quite intimately and especially not so much the people who were handling the guns. He never knew any of them, but he did know the original founders of what for 10 years have been at that before it started killing which was kind of a cultural association.

He knew the fence of past culture and language and so on and so forth. And he knew them all, or he knew most of them, and they were reasonably close. So, eventually my father told me in rather ambiguous terms no names no nothing that he had reached out to vouch for this man's in the hopes that will nothing will happen to. Yeah.

And after some noises, eventually, nothing actually happened to goods. Wow, it was, it was there it was a conversation and intense moment so there was a there was a fear that they were going to attack the architect yeah potentially killing or kidnapping him, or just threaten him, but because of the explosion. Yeah, because it was initially believed that it was an error in design or so corruption have happened in the construction of the place that could be blamed on the

architect. Yeah. When, in fact, much to the contrary the architect of post or wasn't never happy with the solution for the boiler. Yeah, and repeatedly send messages that the configuration of the boiler and the building they made necessary to have extra maintenance done very often. Yeah, at quite a high expense. And of course, this didn't happen didn't happen. Yeah, but it would take some time for this to come to the light. So in the meantime, the man was blamed and right a bit of a scapegoat.

Yeah, yeah, the actual villain of some sort of like, you know, the architect that's on the take, and, you know, for some profit has, you know, pre bands. Yeah, so there was a threat against his life with Etta. Yes, and your father vouched for him.

Exactly. Yeah, no, don't. He didn't have anything to do with this. Exactly. So it is not even a given a that it's going to happen, or be that your intervention is going to change anything. Yeah, because it was often believed that the political apparatus

of the of Etta had control over the armed bit of the organization and that often was not the case. Yeah. So it could have been very well that you convinced a lot of them, and then nothing can be made to happen maybe already. Yeah, faction, somebody decides otherwise. Yeah. Very interesting any any kind of, wow, wow, non official system right it's all very hash hash and different structures. Yeah, he'll probably need.

I personally would leave the rest of my life wondering if somebody had been parked next to my house, just watching me. Following my movements in case they need to hit you know. Yeah, I was probably this. Wow, it's intense. Well thank you for that Ramon. Did you. So what age were you sort of when this one day. 83, you were one, I know for three for four years old.

So the poems and everything that was afterwards right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, also my childhood and teenage years. So yeah they became I guess, I mean, did they are tight. Yeah, they are just know about this do you think, or do you think I would think so yeah right. Okay, that's nice. That's really nice. Yeah, it probably would have been cryptically told right passing like no importance. Yeah, but then the message will have been understood and that's, that's.

Yeah, yeah, like even when I came over to live. We still, which was about 18 years ago. Yeah, politics was still, I was talking about politics but people were very shy. It's, it was very very often a matter of deciding whether you wanted to discuss politics or keep the friendship. Yeah, or your relatives, whatever it was. Right. So, most people obviously chose to talk about it.

Yeah. Cool. Well, that was a great, great story. I hope it adds to the context of what was happening. And yeah, the way society was dealing with it and so many they were always there. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So, we love you. Thank you for listening. And take care. Yeah, you can follow us on our social media, send and send us an email, any many times the crimes of the vast lands at gmail.com. Send us any story ideas any tenuous links to the vast country. Yep, or Basque heritage.

Everybody. Crimes of the Basque lands is written and produced by double stick our volume, Julie Garcia, I'm Megan Dooley, the sound and editing for each episode by double stick our volume. I'm Megan Dooley theme song written by double stick our volume, Julie Garcia, I'm Megan Dooley, sung by the choir with no name and produced by Tom Squires podcast art by distinct signal.

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