This episode MA contained content of a graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals. Listener discretion is advised.
Hi, this is Tanya. Hi this is Shannon, and we are Crimes.
And Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.
Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how you doing?
I am doing pretty good.
It's Saturday. I can't complain.
And it's so sunny out. Did you check out how it's coming off the snow. I love it? Oh yeah, so bright, I do, and it gives me hope.
You know, the gray summer days are the worst, but my goodness, it just feels like angels are singing when the sun is out right.
Absolutely, it's that chorus hell.
And I'm waiting again for my Amazon package today.
I I've decided I'm going to do my nails.
And you know, I am a cosmetologist, so I don't get all of the nail supplies. How I would do Like if I go get them done, I get just what I need to make them look nice should they ever be seen. And so I'm excited.
So this girl's getting her nails did today. I'm at home. Ye, little self care, Little self care.
That's right.
So I have a really horrendous story for us today. But before I started, I just would like to remind everyone to hit the subscriber follow button on whatever app you're listening to. And today's story takes place in Richmond, Virginia, And our story takes place on January first, two thousand and six.
That's where we're going to start. Okay.
On that day, Ricky Gray, his nephew, Ray Dandridge, and Ashley Baskerville, who was Ricky's girlfriend. They were cruising the streets of Richmond in Ricky's van during the mid morning of New Year's Day two thousand and six, looking for a house to rob. When they ended up in the middle class neighborhood of Woodland Heights, Ricky and Ray came
upon the house of the Harvey family. The Harvey family consisted of forty nine year old Brian, who was the former frontman and guitarist of the eighties indie band House of Freaks. Brian had settled down in the Richmond area after growing disillusioned with the music industry and just a little bit about Brian, his voice was compared to a southern John Lennon. The House of Freaks was actually like said to be inspiration for later bands such as The White.
Stripes or the Black Keys.
Oh wow.
Notice.
Yeah.
The House of Freaks released five albums and in nineteen ninety two they had a radio hit named a Rocking Chair and they ended up disbanding that same year. Also part of the Harvey family was thirty nine year old Catherine. She was the co owner of a local toy store. It was called World of Mirth and it was located in Richmond. It was quite successful, and she was also the half sister of actor Stephen Coult And if you google Stephen callp and you see his face, you're gonna
recognize him. He's one of those guys that's in a lot of stuff.
You just don't know his name, right. Yeah.
They had two daughters, Stella, who was nine, and Ruby, who was four. Ricky and Ray discovered that the door to the Harvey's home was ajar, so they entered the home. Once inside, they forced Catherine, Brian and Ruby into the basement. Stella wasn't home at the time when Ricky and Ray entered the house, so in the basement, Ricky assured the three family members that he and Ray were just gonna leave after they took what they wanted from the home.
Ricky then used electrical cords to tie Bryan's wrists behind his back and bind his ankles together. So Ricky and Ray, they were both twenty nine at the time, they were dropouts, drug addicts, X cons and small time thebes, as well as childhood victims of unimaginable sexual abuse. Okay, so I'm gonna end up telling you a little bit more about that. But before Ricky and Ray could plunder the house, they
heard a noise upstairs on the home's main level. Kirsten Perkinson, who was a family friend, had arrived at the Harvey's home to deliver the Harvey's daughter Stella, along with her own daughter Grace Lynn, from a slumber party the previous evening.
So hearing the.
Commotion, Catherine explained to Ricky that her daughter had returned from a slumber party, so he permitted Catherine to go upstairs to bring her daughter downstairs to the basement. Kirsten heard Katherine running up the stairs from the basement, and upon reaching the top of the stairs, she appeared to what Kirsten said, she looked pale and ashen. Stella ran past her mom and down the stairs into the basement, but Catherine blocked Graceland's path so he wouldn't follow Stella
down the stairs. Catherine told Kirsten that she didn't feel well, so Kirsten and grace Lynn left the house.
Close call.
Let me just tell you totally if she's a hero, I don't even know how. It sounds like it's going to end horribly.
Oh yeah, as our stories always do. Right, Yes, I mean that was really I know. I feel like if only they had like a signal worked out between them, some winks and some blinks or something, right, Yeah, sure, weren't of danger or something. So downstairs, Ricky bound the hands and feet of all the Harvey's and placed clear packing tape over their mouths, but again he assured them
that everything was going to be okay. Ricky and Ray then began collecting the items from the home that they intended to Stealine attempted to comfort her distraught daughters, and she told Ricky that he should take whatever he wants and just leave. But suddenly, when they're downstairs in the basement, Ricky took out a razor knife and cut Catherine's throat and then cut the throat of the young girls and
Brian when I know it was like completely unnecessary. When Ricky saw that his victims were still moving, he saw a nearby claw hammer and began repeatedly beating each of the Harvey's in the head. When they stopped moving, Ricky poured two bottles of wine on an easel in the basement and lit a match, starting the fire. Ricky and Ray then left the burning home with the items they
had stolen so they get away. A man named John HoTT, who was a family friend of the Harvey's and former drummer for the House of Freaks, arrived at the Harvey's home for a New Year's Day party about one forty. He noticed smoke coming from the house and he immediately ran to a neighbor's home and called nine one one. Firefighters responding to a call that the Harvey's home was burning, discovered the bodies of Catherine and Ruby in the basement
as they attempted to fight the fire. The house was filled with black smoke and the basement was burning and had zero visibility and a lot of heat. Soon after, the firefighters removed the bodies of Catherine and Ruby from the basement, they determined that the body showed evidence of quote unquote battle signs and the victim's legs had been found. At that point, the firefighters stopped their rescue efforts and
summoned the police. Detective Dwyer of the Richmond Police Department then discovered Stella in the basement under a futon, with her hands behind her back and tape around her mouth. Brian was discovered on the floor of the basement with orange electrical cord wrapped around his wrists and feet, with melted tape around his face and a large wound to
his neck area. Detective Dyer also found two claw hammers, two broken wine bottles, a knife handle, and a separate knife blade in the basement, and autopsy revealed that Brian had been cut eight times in his neck and underneath his chin. In those wounds, although they were quote unquote very painful, were not immediately fatal. His mouth had been gagged and taped. Six lacerations were made to the left side and back of Brian's skull, each caused by blows
from a hammer. He experienced severe third degree burns to his skin, and Brian died from the wounds to a skull through that blunt force trauma. Catherine had been cut three times in her neck and chest, once in her back, and those wounds caused bleeding and pain but were not fatal.
Multiple lacerations were made to her skull as a result of blows from a hammer, and the hammer blows caused a fracture to the slate above Catherine's eyes, resulting and bleeding behind her eyes, and Catherine died from the blunt force injuries to her head. Ruby's throat had been sliced through to her trachea and Ruby's four mind you Wow, a wound that was not fatal but obstructed her breathing. Her head was also fractured and cut, causing brain tissue
to exude from her skull. She had also been stabbed in the back with enough force that the knife had passed through her ribs and into her lungs. Ruby died from the blunt force injuries to her head and the stab injury to her lungs. Stella's neck had been cut six times, with the stab wounds having penetrated her trachea and esophagus, and she's nine. Stella's head was also bludgeoned by a hammer, causing brain tissue to exude from her skull.
She died from a combination of smoke inhalation, carbon monoxide poisoning, and blunt force injury to her head. Forensic evidence showed that the knife blade recovered from the Harvey's home he had traces of blood from Catherine Stella, Ruby and Brian. Brian and Stella's DNA was discovered on the shaft of one of the recovered hammers, and Catherine's DNA was identified
on the handle of the other hammer. Less than a week later, Richmond police received a tip that Ricky was a suspect in the murders.
A member of the.
Richmond Police Department contacted the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Police Department, requesting they investigate a location where Ricky may be staying and to be on the lookout for a particular vehicle believed to be related to.
The Harvey murders.
In the early morning hours of January seventh, two thousand and six, Philadelphia Police obtained a search warrant and a SWAT team entered the location where Ricky was suspected to be staying and found him in the basement. He was arrested and he was advised of his Miranda Rights. After learning that Ray was also being questioned, he asked the Philadelphia Police quote, can I tell you my side of the story?
End quote. Oh yeah.
As part of a signed confession, Ricky described in detail how he and Ray entered the Harvey's home and attacked them, in which he stated, quote, it was a real nasty scene. How am I supposed to explain something like what happened? I started cutting their throats and they kept getting up and they were scaring me. I remember seeing the hammer and picking it up, and then I was just hitting them all with the hammer.
All I know is nobody.
Was moving when I left out of there end quote. He admitted that Ray spent most of his time searching the home for items to steal, and that only he used the hammers to attack the Harvey's. So he pleads not guilty.
That he pleads not guilty.
Okay, so there's a trial.
He stipulated at trial that Brian's wedding ring, as well as a cookie plate and a basket from the Harvey's home were discovered in a location that he provided to police, and police also recovered from him a computer stone from the Harvey's home. He also stipulated that the boots found at the residence in Philadelphia belonged to him, and that's
important because Brian and Stell's bloodstains were discovered on the boots. Okay, the Commonwealth, because this takes place in Virginia, also introduced photographs of the dead bodies as exhibits during the trial, and the jury was permitted.
To view them.
So, after four days of trial, the jury returned a verdict of guilty as to all five capital murder counts, and the jury deliberated for thirty minutes, and then.
He was sentenced to death.
Good good, And in case.
You're wondering what happened to Ray, he initially pleaded not guilty to four counts capital murder, but he eventually changed his plea to guilty on three of the four counts as part of an agreement to receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole. So this episode's going to be a little heavy about the trial and then the penalty phase, because I'm going to tell you some more
about what happened before he was finally sentenced. But in the sentencing phase of Ricky's trial, the Commonwealth introduced evidence of Ricky's criminal record, including convictions for robbery in nineteen ninety six, distribution of cocaine in two thousand, and possession of cocaine in two thousand and two. Extensive evidence was also presented to show that Ricky had a history of
violent crimes in the past. Lieutenant Daniel Stanek of the City of Washington, Pennsylvania Police Department, he testified about the discovery of Ricky's wife's body. Her name was Triva on November fifth, two thousand and five. Ricky was questioned at the time, but was not arrested for her murder. After his arrest for the murder of the Harveys in January two thousand and six, he also confessed to killing his wife, Treva Gray. She was thirty five years old, and Ray
helped him murder Triva. Ray held her down.
While Ricky beat her to death with a lead pipe. Oh my gosh, I know.
Her body was found in a shallow grave on Brookside Avenue in a suburb of Pittsburgh. I mentioned Washington, Pennsylvania. She and twenty eight year old Ricky had been married for six months before he killed her. Treva fought hard for her life, leaving deep clawing marks on Rickey's forearms, but the police initially didn't investigate her death like I
told you, They assumed it was a drug overdose. After her body was found, her stepfather, John Squire's was convinced that Ricky and Ray had something to do with her death. Before they were arrested, John he had taken a month off of work because he felt like he needed to protect his family, so he barricaded his house at night and would lay awake believing that Ricky and Ray would be coming for him, his wife, and their three grandsons.
Detective William Bretton of the Richmond Police Department described how also on January first, two thousand and six, this is the day that they killed the Harveys, detective learned of another set of murders committed in Richmond. Executing a search warrant, police discovered the dead bodies of fifty five year old percl Tucker, his forty six year old wife Mary, and
Mary's twenty one year old daughter, Ashley Baskerville. They were all in their home and if you remember, Ashley had been in the car when Ricky and Ray were driving around looking for a house to rob.
Earlier.
The police identified Ashley as an accomplice in the Harvey murders because she was the lookout while the robbery murders occurred, and then she was actually a participant in the robbery of her own mother and stepfather.
Oh my gosh, I know.
During that crime, Ashley posed as a victim alongside her mom and stepdad, but at some point Ricky said he grew tired of her and just decided to kill her too. Doctor Darrenchrelka, a medical examiner, testified that the autopsy revealed Perciel's head had been covered with saran wrap, with a sock stuffed into his mouth and duct tape shut. Perciell probably struggled for several minutes before he died from suffocation. Mary's mouth had been gagged with duct tape over her eyes,
her neck and chest had been cut four times. Mary struggled several minutes before she.
Died from suffocation.
Ashley was found with a plastic shopping bag over her head and taped to her neck with duct tape. Her face was wrapped in duct tape and a sock with stuffed into her mouth, and she also struggled for several minutes before she died.
From suffocation. What a fucking way to go.
These assholes are monsters right to go out on a spree in anything. I mean, it doesn't even matter. Fucking beat someone with a pipe and I know it as a point honestly time, I don't give a fuck about what your childhood was about. I do not fucking care. It does not excuse this. I know you're gonna want well I was hurt, yeah, I know we all are, so don't.
Right and wrong?
Thank you?
I mean yeah.
Ricky's vehicle was discovered three blocks from the Tucker's home, and the Tucker's stolen vehicle was located in Philadelphia, where he was arrested. So he eventually, like I told you, confessed to murdering the Tucker family, and Brian Harvey's wedding band was found with Ashley's body. She was actually wearing it,
that's where it was. Police also learned that Ricky assaulted a man in Arlington, Virginia on New Year's Eve two thousand and five, So the day before these murders happened, he assaulted this man and it was twenty six year old Ryan Carrey. At the sentencing phase of Ricky's trial, mister Carey testified that he arrived at his parents' home after work on December thirty first.
And he was attacked by two men.
He was forced to the ground and stabbed multiple times. Ryan escaped the assault and rushed to his father's home covered in blood. Ryan's father contacted emergency personnel who took Ryan to the hospital where his condition was stabilized. He ended up staying two months in the High Hospital, and he survived. He was able to return home, although he did lose the use of his.
Right arm permanently.
Wow Ricky confessed to assaulting Ryan with ray and stipulated that Ryan's blood.
Was found on his boots.
Also testifying at the penalley phase of the trial were Mark Harvey, who was Brian Harvey's older brother, and Stephen Coult, the man that I mentioned that was the actor Catherine's older brother. Each described a loving relationship with their sibling and devastating grief and the emotional impact of the murders that they had on them upon them and they extended families. So Ricky offers evidence into mitigation, including his mother's testimony
describing his childhood and home life. His mother was named Barbara Mowten, and she discovered how she established a connection between Ricky and his natural father, Ellsworth, when Ricky was a baby. She later married Ellsworth and moved with him to Maryland along with their two children and two of Ellsworth's children from another relationship. In school, Ricky struggled to
learn to read. He was hyper and disruptive in the classroom, and he received spankings with a horse strap from Ellsworth yeah when the school reported Ricky was disruptive in class. She Assel told of how Ricky wet himself most nights until he was about thirteen, and that resulted in beatings from Ellsworth. She described instances of sexual abuse of two of the children, and it was Ricky and his sister
by a friend of Ellsworth. Ricky's mom said the Army transferred her for a year to the state of Washington, but Ricky remained in Maryland with his father and stepbrother and his sister. During that time, Ellsworth became a cocaine addict. Upon Mary's return from Washington, she also learned that Ellsworth's son, Fitzgerald, had been sexually abusing Ricky, although he refused to talk about the abuse with his mom. Later, Ellsworth was arrested
and jailed and drug charges. She then moved the family to Pennsylvania for a new start, and Ricky left home when he was seventeen. Ricky's sister Ava also testified about repeated instances of sexual abuse upon her and Ricky by Fitzgerald. She also described him being victimized by Fitzgerald when he was only four and that such experiences were a regular
thing over the course of seven years. She also testified that Ricky started to use drugs when he was thirteen and was a user of marijuana, cocaine, and PCP.
PCP, PCP, Where do you get your hair out of fucking choices? Oh my gosh, PCP. We've heard the stories sexual abuse. Yeah, definitely can lead to crime and a plethora of other things. But here's something that I have never you had a fucking seek out PCP. Are you been kidding me? That's not on your menu. I can see your crack, your coke, your whatever, your basic street drugs. But PCP, Mmm, you wanted to destruct and you wanted to destroy because no one, that's not a fun drug
to be on. The one story I heard the one woman she I think they killed someone and then ate some of their flesh, and they would say, I would never have done that, And I smoke a little weed now and again, never on.
Any kind of the PCP. You don't fuck with you kidding.
It's crazy, right, Oh my gosh, Yeah, Oh he did PC yeah, PCP. Then he was looking for it. He was looking for trouble. You're looking for trouble when you do drugs, and you'll find it to me as a whole other level, like no weaving way I know.
Also presented as mitigating evidence was the videotaped deposition of doctor David Lysik, a psychologist and expert on the impact of child abuse and the relationship between earlier trauma and the perpetration of violence. Doctor Lysik offered his opinion on
the general effect of early childhood abuse. He also presented the opinion of doctor Mark Cunningham, who was a clinical and forensic psychologist, who opined that Ricky was quote likely to make a positive adjustment to prison or an adjustment
that is free of serious violence. Doctor Cunningham's conclusions were based in part on the fact that Ricky was nearly thirty years old and that his quote likelihood of getting into trouble in prison is only about half as much as when he was eighteen or twenty years old, and
continues to fall steadily across the lifespan end quote. Doctor Cunningham noted Ricky's history of incarceration and how he had avoided violent encounters in prison, how he had used his prison time to earn a ged, and how he had earned additional education, including courses on sheet metal business and
electrical work. In response to Ricky's mitigating evidence, the Commonwealth produced the testimony of Officer James Jonas of the Philadelphia Police Department, who tested about the search and Ricky's arrest on January seventh, two thousand and six. Officer Jonas explained that during the execution of the warrant to arrest him, he discovered Ricky hiding in an unlit basement, crouched behind
a water heater. Officer Jonas described how Ricky had smirked at him when he asked to show his hands, and that Ricky had refused to show one of his hands, which Officer Jonas identified as a potentially threatening gesture. Officer Jonas explained how in the attempt to secure Ricky, Ricky punched.
Him and resisted arrest.
Ricky also assaulted Officer Jonas's partner and attempted to grab the officer's gun. After multiple punches were exchanged, the officers were eventually able to secure and handcuff Ricky. Ricky was eventually also indicted in December of two thousand and six for the murder of Sheryl Warner, who was found shot and hanged with an electrical cord in her basement. The mother of three's body was found after firefighters arrived to her home that had been set on fire.
Like yeah, that's.
Ricky pleaded not guilty, and the charges were eventually suspended in June two thousand and eight due to contradictory evidence.
So I'm believing that the.
Prosecutor didn't feel like they had enough evidence to continue. So, as I told you, Ricky gets convicted, he gets sentenced to death, and he tried several times to appeal his case, and in twenty sixteen at the Supreme Court, he did appeal to the Supreme Court and they declined to hear his case. After his execution was stayed in March twenty sixteen to allow for that appeal.
His lawyers tried to argue that the.
Lethal injection, which was the execution means in Virginia, amounted to cruel and unusual punishment, violating Ricky's constitutional rights. One of the biggest points of their argument was that one of the drugs that was being used, called mita zolam, equated to chemical torture and that a firing squad would
have been more humane. Prior to his execution day, Virginian's Alternatives to the Death Penalty released an eighteen minute video which was created by Ricky's legal team, where Ricky expressed apologies for the deaths of the Harvey family. In the beginning of the video, Ricky states, quote, I've stolen something from the world. It's never left my mind because I understand exactly what I took from the world by looking
at my two sisters. I reminded each time I talk and I see them that this is what I took from the world. You know, the potential for greatness in those kids.
End quote.
Eventually, he was executed on January eighteenth, twenty seventeen. His final word was nope when asked if he had any final words, and he declined a final meal. An independent expert,
doctor Mark Edgar, analyzed Ricky's autopsy after his death. Doctor Edgar, who was the Associate director of Bone and Soft Tissue Pathology at the emer University School of Medicine, stated Ricky had an acute pulmonary edema during his execution, with liquid in his upper airways and blood entered his lungs before death. He said, quote. The anatomic changes described in Ricky Gray's lungs are more often seen in the aftermath of a sarin gas attack than in a routine hospital autopsy. The
way of dying is intolerable. You can't control your breathing, and when this is severe, you can experience panic and terror. And if the individual was in any way aware of what was happening to them, it would be unbearable.
End quote.
He pointed to that drug mida lozam, which is a sedative. It's meant to cause unconsciousness during the execution, but it's actually used in medical procedures as a low level sedation because it doesn't cause full unconsciousness. Okay, Ray Dandridge is still serving his sentence at the Sussex to State Prison in Virginia. He's currently forty eight. I'm going to end this on a more positive note though, and say that there have been many philanthropic causes that came out.
Of the Harvey's deaths.
The Brian and Catherine Harvey Family Memorial Endowment it provides music, visual art, and performing arts and Richmond in the Richmond area, which may include, but is not limited to, educational scholarships. Ruby's Preschool, the second Presbyterian Childcare Center in Richmond, had an annual run in which donations were used to sponsor other children at the school, like pay their costs.
Right.
I'm not sure if it's still going on, but it happened at least four years. Stella's Elementary School, the William Fox Elementary School in Richmond, dedicated its new children's garden in her memory. The city of Richmond dedicated the Harvey Family Memorial Bridge on September nineteenth, twenty ten, in the Forest Hill Park.
Wow, that isn't story.
I always find like these death punty cases fascinating, and it's because, like you said earlier, I don't give a fuck how much the person suffers in their execution. I really don't, because I think back like, I hope he was terrified. I'm saying this like and I know it's probably some people are appalled, but I can only imagine the terror that any member of the Harvey family experienced, especially those children. And I don't know who was killed first. I don't know if it was Brian or Catherine or
the children. To me, it sounded like the parents were murdered first. Can you imagine sitting there, tied up with mouth on your face, and you're four years old and you're watching somebody beat your parents and your sister to death. I don't know who, I don't know the order, but those family members watched each other die a violent and brutal death, and I'm sure.
They were terrified.
Absolutely.
I really don't have any sympathy for.
When you said that, Oh, they said that a firing squad would be more whatever it fucking about, some electrical wire, some dull knives and a claw hammer in twenty minutes, that'll be more humane. If you want to talk about humanity, you get humanity when you give humanity.
Or let's yeah, I have you do that, and then you're not quite dead because one of the children died from smoke in elation.
Yes that I Oh, we'll.
Just set something on fire next to your dying body. Also, and let you experience.
That, so every second of your passing you are in a terrified state of mind. As a child, I don't give a fuck about your injection. Whoever your name is. It's like, he's so disgusting, ricky whatever, I don't even fucking care. I know stories like this.
You know, it's easy to say how sorry you are afterward. He was twenty eight. Okay, he's not a kid, and not that it would make any difference if he was, you know, eighteen as opposed to twenty eight, but you've lived a little bit when you're twenty eight, you know, And yeah, his childhood was extremely fucked up, whether he was you know, being abused physically, sexually, whatever it is, and then spent life spiraling because he was taking drugs to probably dull the pain in whatever choice.
Choice, choice choice.
That's what you're responsible for. Your choice here.
There's plenty of people in this world that, you know, start off with horrible, horrendous childhoods, you know, physically, sexual abuse everything, and become drug addicts, and they managed to turn their lives around. You know, maybe not everyone, but.
There's a way out there, there's a way, the path that you've chosen there's always going to be a way to get off that path you chose to rock steady on it.
Yeah, so aria there.
And burn in hell. If you believe in hell, you're there.
Yeah, I just And it's not only the Harvey family, and I know that was a big focus on my story, but it's also his wife. It's also Ashley and her mom and her stepdad and then so that's eight people right there, and then Ryan carry who got attacked. That's nine people's lives. And thankfully Ryan made it out of live. But eight people lost their lives for what.
Yeah, goal for a computer, for a laptop, for a ring? What the fuck? Who you? I have just zero sympathy.
For any Yeah, and why couldn't you crying to me.
About how this about your childhood? I don't want to hear it. We all come out with a cross to carry.
So figure it out one way or another.
Exactly right, And you know, you could have just robbed the house and thank you, exactly left and he went to Pennsylvania. It's not like he stuck around. They stuck around in Virginia. So it's like you could have you could have left and probably gotten away with it.
I don't know. I don't know. It was two thousand and six.
I don't know how sophisticated they really and put out an APB for somebody robbing a house and make it and it makes its way to fucking Philadelphia or wherever.
I don't know.
It just it really, it's stupid. It's a stupid crime. It's it's unnecessary. The level of violence that this family and these other people all experienced, suffocating to death with the fucking tape wrapped around your face and surandom and then here's.
The attorney for him.
Oh that's a little bit much.
Yeah, this injection, that's a little much.
Is it a little much?
Yeah?
Oh no, yeah, Oh it's cruel and unusual.
I'm like, oh, boy, cruel and unusual.
Well, that sounding to me like iye for an eye kind of punishment, And if I can make it worse, I would, right, Yeah, What could I do to you that would fulfill any kind of satisfaction of what you took?
That will never come back?
But you're here, get the fuck out of my sight, exactly.
I just for as liberal as I am, I don't have any problem with the death penalty. The only I have with the death penalty is that sometimes innocent people really are convicted and then absolutely death And yeah, that's when the death penalty is a bad thing and it's happened, and we've done stories about it, and it's it's really really tragic when that happens.
But like Ricky, he fucking confessed.
Yeah, I like when then we were saying about his when he was like, I don't know the next thing. I know, I'm not stopping right, I don't like that. This crazy the devil, the devil man, I don't know. The devils just overtook me. Oh you mean yourself. You're both sides of the same coin, fucking idiot.
I know.
So I have not heard and actually I haven't even heard of anybody being in a death penalty, Like you know how they usually give an announcement like someone's about to be this evening or but a lot has happened since two thousand and six, so I can I'm gonna forgive myself for not being able to pull it from my.
Memory, right right, Yeah, I know. Plus I don't really watch the news, so I'm sure I was in law school in two thousand and six, so I'm my whole life is a blur from back then.
But it was just one big, long, horrible day.
So yeah, but that was a really good story, tie, and I appreciate. I do like to know about them and then like, lets me know, I when I listen to like our stories, I'm always surprised about what I find about myself, you know, like, oh my gosh, I am so enraged on my own personal Like there's the physical walk and then your spiritual walk, and sometimes those two are hard to reconcile together.
Yes, you don't understand.
So that's a lot of growth, and that's you know, I.
Do want to become that person that is like forgiving, you know, because a lot of these stories that we've done, like family members who have who have had someone in their family like murdered, and they'll they'll forgive the murderer.
I'm not there. I could not.
I'm a person. I'm not that spiritual of a person. I guess where I can find it in my heart. And I think a lot of times people forgive because they don't want that hate in their heart, you know, because it's a heavy burden to live with too.
It's insatiable. Hate is insatiable.
I don't know if I could make it there. I think the hate would probably consume me and probably destroy.
How it easily.
Yes, Oh it's ferocious, that hate appetite.
Maybe one day I'll become you know, I'll be on that spiritual plane where I'll be like, you know, oh, they deserve forgiveness. But right now I'm like, no, he deserved to suffer whatever he suffered in the probably three minutes it took for him to die. I mean, I don't know for sure how long it took because I didn't read that part. But whatever, if it took ten minutes, I don't give a fuck.
You know, I do not hear it.
Yes, it's irrelevant his Yeah, that's.
Yeah, because it sure took a lot longer than ten minutes. I'm sure to kill that whole family, right and.
For Ruby or Stella, which of the two had to suffer her wounds until she was succumbed to the smoke that it shouldn't even know that? And to hear his attorneys talk about cruel and unusual, I just want to go after his attorney now too. Oh dare you hear you?
Pristella Arubi? You fucking twat all?
Right? You spoke upon this.
I'm just like, ah, yeah, those are cases I could never never do. Oh speaking of lawyers, did you happen to hear that Sean Comb's Diddy his lawyer quit. No, Yeah, He's like yeah, I forget the quote, but it was basically like, I can't be any part of this any longer. And I was talking about it with my daughter and I'm like, and you know, Diddy is so rich that his lawyer could make an ass ton of money and for his lawyer quit, you know there's some shit going down.
Oh he's the pig. I mean, his downfall has been a long time coming.
Yeah.
So I'm just like, ooh, some lawyers, you know, can put it aside and be like, Okay, I'm making money, I'm doing my job. I'm defending someone. You know, everybody deserves a defense, blah blah blah, and you know, but this lawyer was like, I can't do it. I can't take any more. So I could never become like a criminal defense attorney. I just couldn't like even like small crimes, fine, drunk driving whatever, whatever. Yeah, when you get to like Diddy's level, I.
Could not, Oh my gosh, no, he needs and everybody.
I'll preface that is saying everybody is in a sentence of proven guilty. He's not been convicted yet, so anyway, but.
Right here he's convicted.
Breens convicted him, locked him up.
Anyway, Well, thank you Shannon for listening. Thank you everyone for listening to our latest episode. Before you turn off your podcast app, please hit subscriber follow. If you would like to see our website, it's Crimesoconsequences dot com. You can find information there about becoming a member of our Patreon, or you can become a member on the Apple podcast app. And what that means is for a small fee every
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It's really it.
It's like.
You're done, love squeezy.
Yeah.
So anyway, well, thank you again, and I will see you later. Shannon, so I
Will see you, love you, love you Bye.