This episode may contain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals. Listener discretion is advised. Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm Tanya, and together we are Crimes and Consequences, a true crime podcast. Hi Tania, Hi Talia. Welcome back everybody to this week's episode of Crimes in Consequences. I hope everybody is doing amazing. Are you doing amazing? No? Absolutely not. I hope everybody
else is, man, I hope everybody else is. That takes place in twenty and twelve, and there's a woman. Her name is Carrie Farber. She's a single mother from Counsel Bluffs, Iowa, and she had this chance encounter with Dave Krupa in Omaha, Nebraska. The two quickly hit it off, and it was clear that the relationship wasn't going to be just a flame. Sparks were flying nice, but just two weeks into dating, something inside Carrie Fiber changed forever. She was no longer the woman who lit up the
room, and she'd become obsessed with Dave after two weeks. What That's why I said, this wasn't going to just be a flame. Yeah, no kidding, damn he was magic. This would be a mystery that would prevail for years, and when the truth was finally exposed, it was really shocking. This is a story of Carrie Fiber, Dave Krupa, and Liz Golier. Do you know what I think? I listened to a date line Yeah, dateline dateline podcast about this case. Okay, well it's a wild one.
Everybody needs a buckle off. But twenty twelve, Carrie Fiber, who was thirty seven years old, was living this happy and stable life in Council Bluffs, Iowa. Her son and she'd given birth to him in her late twenties. He was flourishing in school and she couldn't wait to see like the life that he made for himself. She was a good mom and she loved him and he look I said, he was doing well. But as we know, things aren't always sunshine, rainbows and ponies. Ain't that the truth?
Shortly after giving birth to her son, she was diagnosed with depression and bipolar disorder. Slowly, with the help of medication and a lot of therapy, Carrie was able to get her condition under control, and she ended up getting a job working as a computer programmer. Carrie's office was your Omaha, Nebraska, and it was only about four and a half mile drive across state lines. One day in autumn of two and twelve, Carrie took her car
in for service and repair at a garage right by her office. Carry left her car with the mechanics in the morning and then she had it off to work. When she returned that afternoon, she met with one of the mechanics that was working on her car. And this is Dave Krupa. Oh, that's how they met. That's how they met. As the two looked at each other, something inside of them, just like I said, sparks started flying. Dave told ABC. Quote, when we looked at each other,
there was this little spark. She's showing me something inside the vehicle, and we're standing there and we're really close, and there were just some sort of tension. Ooh end quote. But I think it was a good tension. Yeah, sexual sexual tension. Dave found himself conflicted. He was really attracted Carrie and appeared that she reciprocated his feelings. But there was one issue. Dave knew it was wrong to flirt with a customer and it would undoubtedly be
out of bounds for him to ask for her number. Now we're attorneys, so yes, and we do divorces. That's inappropriate, yes, but a mechanic, Yeah, is it really inappropriate? Don't I don't feel like it would be. No, I don't think it would be, but I guess he did. There was a subtraction between the two, but he felt powerless to ask her out. He wanted to remain professional, and he hoped that some sort of divine intervention would make their past cross again and again. I
mean I had a hot mechanic. I know, I wouldn't feel like I was crossing any boundaries thing all right? Like, hey, can I get your number? Right? In early twenty and twelve, Dave had recently gotten out of a long term relationship the woman named Amy Flora. The two head two children together, and from reports, it appeared that they maintained a civil relationship and they managed to co parent really well without like dragging their children into
their relationship wos. By all accounts, Dave was a good father, He was a good friend, and everyone who met him had nothing but nice things to say about him. It is nice. After breaking it off with the mother of his children, Dave gave himself some time alone. He wanted to focus on himself before doing what most singles do and going like dating apps or rebound relationships. He really just wanted to take some time off. He ended
up after a while going on a dating app. He filled out his profile, he added his picture, and he dived into the ce of singles. After swiping left and right, he matched with this woman named Shana Elizabeth Golier who went by Liz. The two instantly clicked. Liz was also a single mother of two kids, and they could relate to all their co parenting issues
and trying to date in the modern age with dating apps and stuff. From the start, though, Dave made it very clear that he wasn't looking for another serious relationship and was just really looking more for a casual companion to hang out with. Dave was new to this whole bachelor lifestyle and he just didn't want to jump back in it right right, like he's working on himself and I mean, I kind of get it. This seemed to be okay with
this. The two set up a first date and they were both instantly attracted to each other. For the next few months, the two continue to hook up at each other's apartments and spend some time together. So I guess when he says casual, like a casual companionship include the include sex. Yes, he's not looking for someone to go hiking with him? Yeah, and like
it's not a movie companion it's everything about a commitment. Apparently exactly. So they hooked up at each other's apartments, they spent some time together, but Liz really wanted more. She wanted to be Dave's girlfriend, something that just made him uncomfortable, and she actually talked to him about like, hey, can we be exclusive and he basically said no, it didn't feel right to
him, but they continued to hook up. Ten months later, in mid two thousand and twelve, that's when Dave met Carrie Barber and that's when everything changed. So, even though they were instantly attracted, Dave again didn't ask her out. But remember he hoped that fate would intervene, and it did. He was going through one of his dating apps. Oh there she was,
and there she was. Oh wow, to be right. Her profile detailed that she worked as a computer programmer Nebraska, but lived with her son in Council Bluff, Saiwa and Dave's heart just start beating out of his chest. Divine intervention had brought them together, and he immediately sent a message to carry. Minutes later, his phone ring. He took a deep breath, covered his eyes slightly, and he picked up the phone to read the message.
As he's peeling his fingers away from his eyes. He got really excited. Carrie had said yes to going on a date with him, so obviously he gave Carrie his phone number and everything was slowly coming together, but just weeks later everything would fall apart. They set up the date and they went out, and they ended up going back to Dave's apartment in Omaha. They're hanging out there and then there's a knock at the door. Oh shit.
Dave wasn't expecting anybody, especially at this hour. When he opened the door, it was Liz. She arrived unannounced during Dave and Carrie's first date. Oh, how awkward to collect things that she left behind at Dave's apartment during their very brief fleeing. Carrie awkwardly introduced herself and watched as Liz collected her things. Okay, that's so fucking awkward. The head is so uncomfortable. Yeah, the entire encounter was bizarre and awkward for everybody. I mean,
that's just not the way you want your first date to go. But luckily this encounter didn't put Carrie off today, and the two continued to text and call each other when they weren't together. Several more dates followed, and then in November of twenty twelve, Carrie found herself putting in extra long hours at the office because she this major project that she was working on. Now, the two had spent so much time together that they began to reconsider their status
of the relationship. Really, Like Dave, Carrie had gone in just expecting a fleeing and she didn't want anything serious. But his kind and carrie nature made her change her mind, and Dave also started thinking about his future with Carrie. He still wanted to take things slow, but he was considering having a future with Carrie. In November, Dave invited Carrie to State's department for the week while she finished that project at work. And that's a week.
Yeah. Dave's apartment was a lot closer to her office and it would eliminate the long commute that she would have and take a lot of the added stress off of this like twelve to thirteen hour day work schedule she had because of this project. She arranged childcare for her son Max, so Max ended up being with her mother, and Carrie was looking forward to spending a slice of
her life with Dave at his place. Yeah, I mean, she was incredibly close to her son, but she felt confident because her mom's caring for him. On November twelfth, Carrie finished up at work and said good night to her colleagues, and then she headed to Dave's apartment, where the two shared a meal together and they watched some TV before going to bed. Carrie felt this sense of warmth and security in the presence of day, and as
the days went on, their connection grew even stronger. One night, Carrie and Dave jumped into bed it was nighttime, and they set their alarms for the following day. When Carrie's alarm went off, she jumped out of bed, got ready for work, and kissed Dave goodbye. Neither knew that that would be the last time they would ever see each other. But before I tell you more, we're going to take a quick break as far as Dave
was concerned. November thirteenth, which just another day, Carrie headed to the office early to get a head start on this project, and he himself he was just getting ready for another day working at the shop. He put on his overalls and he made the short drive to the garage where he worked. The first half of day's work day was unremarkable, and then his phone buzzed.
It was a text from Carrie. Dave was expecting Carrie to send, you know, lighthearted text about her day or something, you know, hey, what's up kind of a thing, but it was something much more sinister. In the text, Carrie told Dave that she'd been thinking while she was staying with him, and that she wanted to move in with him. This freaked him out. He made it clear at the start of the relationship that he wasn't looking for anything serious, although he was starting to consider it and
leave. Carrie had felt that same way, So even though they started becoming more serious, this was just a shock, like, oh, you want to move in? Yeah? A little too fast? Right? Why is this all of a sudden? He wondered whether Carrie had misinterpreted his kindness, and he sent a text to gently let her down. Then just a few minutes later, he got another text from Carrie in which she said, quote, fine, I don't ever want to see you again, go away.
I'm dating somebody else and I hate you end quote. It seems like a weird thing to say. Dave was confused, right, yeah, I confused right, concerned, like what, how'll just happen? She'd always been very calm and level headed, and she seemed happy with the status of the relationship. Dave ended up putting the text just in the back of his mind, hoping that Carrie would calm down and maybe lead her apologize for her outburst, but that didn't happen. Dave wasn't the only one to receive a bizarre text
from Carrie that day. Carrie's mother, her name was Nancy Rainey, received a text from Carry too, and she knew that Carrie was staying at Dave's apartment for the week. In that text, Carrie addressed her mother, Nancy, and her son Max, telling them that she had quit her job and moved to Kansas. She asked her mom to take care of Max while she arranged to collect him after she gets her life going and bring him to Kansas.
Nancy immediately send something was off and she kept trying to call Carrie over and over again. Knowing Carrie's history of bipolar disorder. Her mother was afraid maybe she got to take her medicine, maybe she was having some sort of manic episode. Nancy reached out to the police, but they didn't do much because here is an adult. She wants to move to Kansas, Kansas,
Kansas. She wants squitter job and moved to Kansas. She Nancy continued to text and call Carrie, but would never get any responses, at least not from the phone calls. There were very sparse messages here and there, and none of them sounded like something that Carrie would write. From late twenty twelve to mid twenty thirteen, Carrie missed two significant events. First it was her half brother's wedding and second her father's funeral. So we're talking about months of
her just being gone. When Carrie failed to attend her father's funeral, her family knew that her life was something something is really wrong. And again the police said basically they were powerless because she's free to disappear. Huh. To me, this is just kind of shocking, because, all right, an adult can disappear if they want. But she had a son, Max Yea,
and she was a devoted mom. So if you think the police might take this a little bit more seriously, especially considering she was last known to be at some guy's apartment and then just not paying her bills, not seeing her son, not seeing her mom, not going to her dad's funeral. I know it seems suspicious. Yeah, it's one way describe it. After Carrie disappeared and moved to Kansas, Dave and his ex girlfriend Liz Memberless Yeah,
found themselves in the center of basically a harassment campaign. Carrie would send hundreds of texts daily to Dave and Liz, threatening their lives damn. Some of the text read quote, I hate you, You've ruined my life. You're a terrible person. Another one said I will do what I can and make you suffer, and then there was another one that said we belonged to
gather Dave. It wasn't just texts that Carry sent either. She somehow got a hold of Dave and Liz's email addresses and began to fill their inboxes with threats and taunts. She was referring to Liz as a whore, stating that Dave could do much better. Than her. This harassment brought Dave and Liz closer to each other, and once again in twenty thirteen, they began seeing each other. I mean they took comfort in each other as both could understand
yeah, right going through they're they're victimized and by the same person. The two try to go to the police, but as Carrie had never physically harmed them, there was little the police could do. At this point, everyone assumed that Carrie was offer meads and was on some rampage. One day, Liz called Dave in a flood of tears. She told Dave that someone had quote poor from Dave inside her garage with spray paint. What Nancy also started
receiving malicious texts from her daughter. Those texts said that Nancy was never a good mother and that she was too controlling. According to ABC, Nancy noticed something strange about these texts. The weird thing wasn't that her own daughter was cursing her out, but these texts were filled with punctuation and grammatical errors. Carrie was well educated woman, and she was really good at her job, and Nancy told ABC that Carrie quote was always a stickler for punctuation and spelling.
Thanksgiving came around and there was one empty seat at Nancy's table. Nancy's concerned by now, like it was just over the top. Carrie did have that mental illness and had issues with not taking her medicine before and stuff, but I mean, it's at the point now, it's ridiculous. The family eighth their Thanksgiving meal and they prayed that Carrie would return soon. Then Nancy and Max celebrated Christmas alone. The only present that Max wanted that year was
for his mom to come home. Oh, that's so sad. Carrie continued to send bizarre tax to Max. Really, I guess Max had a phone and Nancy, but neither of them could get a coherent answer from her. When they would respond to the tax, they would plead with her come home. The cries fell on deaf ears. Just because it was a holiday season
didn't mean that Liz and Dave had any reprieve from Carrie's harassment either. The two spent November and December looking over their shoulders, fearing Carrie would turn up at any time. Because we remember they're getting threats. Christmas lost its spark for Dave and Liz. To them, it was like just another day of harassment. Then the new year rang out and there was still no sign of Nancy had made so many appeals to the police, but according to them,
again, what can we do? As glasses cleaned and people cheered, Dave and Liz hoped that the new year would bring him a new start. In January, the harassment towards Dave and Liz it escalated and it became physical. Dave recalled to ABC quote on one specific occasion, I was sitting in my lazy boy with my feet up watching TV, was trying to relax. It's nighttime, and I get a text saying, quote, I see you. You're sitting in your chair with your feet propped up, wearing a blue shirt.
Oh that's creepy. Carrie had now graduated to stalking Dave and Liz and was even maybe camping outside of his home peeping on him. Again. Omaha, police, what can we do? You haven't been harmed physically. Dave and Liz lived in fear, wondering what Carrie would do next. After that spying incident, Dave arrived home to the apartment complex he lived in, and as he pulled his car into his spot, he froze just across the road
he saw Carrie's Ford Explorer. Oh shit, he knew that she was watching him, and he called the police and he demanded, Okay, you have to do something. Officers were sent out to the car and they dusted it for fingerprints. The car was immaculate aside from one fingerprint, and it would be later determined that fingerprint didn't belong to Carrie, So who to belong to? While David Liz were at the receiving end of this barrage of hate,
Nancy and Max were desperately trying to establish contact with Carrie. Max even sent a message to his mother on Facebook and asked her to answer three questions to prove that she was really in charge of her profile because Carrie was active on Facebook. He asked her what his middle name was, what their first dog's
name was, and his best friend's name stuff only she would know. Yeah, but Carrie didn't reply to Max, and that's when Nancy began to suspect that it wasn't Carried that had been messaging them on Facebook and texting them and all those things. Liz and Dave continued to get her asked whenever the two hung out at Dave's apartment. Their phones would blow up with texting emails from
Carry. One time, when Dave was at his apartment without Liz, Carrie sent a photo of a woman tied up in the boot of a car, implying that it was Liz. It wasn't Liz. He later found out, and she was fine. Carrie then sent Dave a fake obituary for Liz. Oh no, this is crazy, and yeah, they were terrified. Things were slowly coming to a crescendo. On May eighteenth of twenty thirteen, Carrie posted a bizarre rant on her Facebook page. It read quote, I have
answered enough questions to prove myself to everyone. I'm done. You can't either believe I'm your daughter, mother, or sister and friend that you have known your whole life, or you can't just leave me alone. I've proved myself over and over and I'm done. I left on my own free will, and I'm sick of everyone giving me a hard time for doing what I needed to do. I'm not missing I just don't want to come home right now. I'm a grown woman and that was spelled wrong. And if I feel
like leaving home, I have the right. I asked my son Max to come with me, but he didn't want to. So when I'm ready to come back home, I will. I'm sorry for hurting everyone and just up and leaving. I know I've upset some of you, but I need to do this for me. Sorry, and I hope some day you can forgive me. I love you all very much, but I need time to sort things out. Well, that's a weird thing to post on Facebook on August seventeenth, So not some times gone by. It's been like over a year
since she's been gone. It hasn't been quite a year. A year. Yeah, So I was telling you about multiple texts that she'd been sending in messages through the months, and those were the texts that I just described in messages. It's on August seventeenth of twenty thirteen. Liz awoke to the faint smell of smoke in her home. Opening her eyes, she discovered that there was a fire raging through her house. Her children were there, remember she
had two children. Luckily, her and her children were able to escape, but Liz's two dogs, her cat, and her snake died in the fire. The fire department was called immediately they arrived at the scene. The blaze was extinguished, and Liz called Dave in a panic, telling them what happened. Minutes later, Dave received an email from Carrie that read, quote, I'm not lying. I sat that nasty horse house on fire. The horror and her kids die in it. I quote damn. Liz was understandably shaken
by the incident, as was Dave. If Carrie could set Liz's house on fire, what's the next thing she's going to do? Fearing for his life, Dave moved. He ended up moving to Counsel Bluffs, Iowa, hoping that the move would get Carry off his trail, but he was wrong. The harassment continued, and she continued to stop Dave, texting him what he was wearing and what he was doing at the time. The relationship between Dave and Liz that slowly broke down. And what's interesting is as the relationship between
Dave and Liz faded, the harassment began to peter out too. Really, that's when Dave started thinking about things like, hmm, this is weird. Carry's not harassing me now that Liz is out of my life. He started looking at everything from a new angle, and he wasn't the only one, Ryan Avis and Jim Dody, and they were from Pottawa, Tommy County Sheriff's Office. Sure, okay, in Council Bluffs, Iowa. They've been assigned to dive into this disappearance of Carrie in April twenty fifteen, so finally the
police are actually taking it seriously. Interestingly, Ryan decided to investigate gate the case as if Carrie had been murdered really before. They always thought she was alive, but he looked at this angle and it led him down a really wild road. He told Oxygen, quote, there are things that would lead us to both conclusions. You know, she's still active, sending text messages and sending pictures too, so maybe she's alive. But she's also missed so
many significant events and hadn't been physically seen by anybody in so long. Time goes on, and the investigators are still trying to figure out the mystery behind Carrie's disappearance, and by this time it's been years. According to Ryan Avis, their big break came in late two fifteen when Liz arrived at the Sheriff's office to file another complaint of harassment. As Liz walked through the details of what happened. Ryan's interest was piqued when Liz announced that the harassing messages had
becoming from someone else other than Carrie. She's now being harassed by someone else. Really, this time she was receiving harassing messages from Amy Flora, the mother of Dave's children. Woh what Liz believed that Amy had been the one all along masquerading is carried Oh shit? What spoiler alert? Holy shit, this just took a weird ass turn. Might now and some of them now makes some sense, but we still don't know how happen to carry. Yeah.
It was also around this time that Dave discovered one of his guns, which he had hidden in a safe place in his bedroom, was missing. So we're talking a couple of years. Very few people knew about this gun and where he kept it, and he was pretty terrified. Just one day after Liz went to the Sheriff's office to report Amy Flora for harassment and stalking,
the Sheriff's received a panicked nine call from Liz. During the call, she told dispatchers that she'd been walking in Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs when a woman approached her. Liz later identified the woman as Amy Flora, and according to Liz, Amy pulled out a gun and shot her in the leg. What she was shot in the leg? Shit? The Sheriff's office arrived at the scene and they called an ambulance. Liz wasn't seriously injured, and
the Sheriff's office, Okay, now they're all over Amy. They're looking for Amy. They get her and they bring her to the station. But it became very obvious to them after talking to her she wasn't involved. She had an alibi that was solid backed up by a lot of witnesses for the evening that the shooting took place. So if it wasn't Amy, who wasn't was it? What the fuck? Liz's story slowly began to unravel in front of
investigators, and yeah, she's a crazy pitch, let's just say. In mid two thousand and fifteen, investigators ramped up their investigation and Carries disappearance, and they ended up searching her abandoned car more thoroughly. A forensics examination of the car revealed a blood stain that had been hidden under the fabric of the passenger seat. After confirming that that blood was human, a sample was attained and a tested for DNA and they were shocked when they found out that it
was Carrie's blood. Oh shit. A mint container also found in the car that bore one single fingerprint, And remember I told you about that fingerprint yea, When they tested it it belonged to Liz. Really, so why was Liz and Carrie's car? Why didn't Lize shoot herself in the leg Let's just be honest with each other here, because she's cuckoo. Cuckoo. When Liz had recovered from the attack, investigators brought her in and they began forensically examine
her phone and her tablet. They got you warrants for it. It was quickly established that Liz shot herself in an attempt to frame Amy, like that's so wild. But what they would soon uncover just sent their blood boiling. On Lize's tablet, a digital forensic expert found a deleted photo of Carrie's corpse. No, yes, oh no, she kept a photo of the fuck. That's so disgusting. What the hell? There are also up to twenty or thirty fake email addresses, and they were made to look like they're carries.
Oh man, crazy bit Lizz's phone also contained an app that allowed her to send fake messages from Carrie's number. Do you remember that they had that before? Oh yeah, so she of course sent all these fake messages from Carrie's number to herself and Dave. According to ABC quote, the app allowed or to schedule future messages so that we like when she was with Yes, and she got messages. Yes, that is crazy. Isn't that insane?
Yes? That takes a lot of fucking planning. So she could be sitting on the couch next to Dave and then be like, oh look I just got this message, or he's just getting one too. Yeah, she couldn't have sent it, And all investigators believe Liz sent over fifteen thousand emails god and fifty thousand texts to herself and Dave posing as Carrie. That's crazy.
She needed like a hobby. That's a lot of time. Wow. The image of Carrie's corpse, and to be fair, Liz did delete it, but they were able to find it on her either her phone or her tablet. Of course, implicated her in Carrie's murder, and they had a clever way of getting her to admit it. They asked Liz to correspond with Amy and see if she could get them any information about Carrie's death. Like, yeah, they were going along with the story. Yeah, investigators knew Liz
would write emails back posing as Amy. It was fucked up and therefore incriminate herself. Yeah, which is crazy, Like why are She's got an email the fake Amy and then respond as the fake Amy? Yeah. You know, if she had any intelligence, she would wonder why the police would want her to reach out to the person that shot her in the well man, you know, people are stupid. I need you to do some undercover works
for us. Okay. She obviously didn't have an attorney. Liz told investigators that in an email, Amy had confessed to stab and carry three to four times in Carrie's car before putting her body into a bin bags trash trash bag. The IP addresses from Amy's email, of course, led them right back to Liz. Dumbassy, dumbass, but she got away with it for years. This was enough evidence for Omaha Police Department to arrest and charge Liz with
first degree murder. During her trial, the prosecution showed the deleted images of Carrie's body, including a photo of her foot that showed Carrie's distinct tattoo. Lizze's defense team trying to argue that the evidence was circumstantial at best. You got a picture of her body that sounds circumstantial, while they said there is no body, so therefore, if there's nobody, you can't say that Liz committed a murder. But we know that's not true, and of course the
jury saw through Liz's defense. It took until two thousand and seventeen before she was found guilty of first degree murder and second degree arson. Oh yeah, that's she burned her fucking house and killed her animals, pets. She killed her pets and her children were there. What a fucking horrible person. No, I mean, of course she's a horrible person. I'm saying, but she put her children and killed her pets for what for some guy? Yeah?
I guess this is crazy, And she might have gotten away with it if she didn't show up to the police and say Amy's now harassing her? Like why do that? Some more dramas she needs? I guess couldn't she just move on and I don't know, find the new guy? Yeah? Right, God, I don't get it. I don't get people. Sometimes she was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole. She's currently
housed in Nebraska's Correctional Center for Women. Her next parole board review is in twenty twenty seven, and it's I mean, it's not likely that she'll be granted parole anytime soon. Of course, she maintains her innocence, of course, saying she should be free. Of course, the real murderer is still out there. In the wake of her daughter's murder, Nancy set up a scholarship in Carrie's name, and she told ABC quote, Carrie was only thirty
seven years old when she died. If I could talk to Carrie right now, I'd say, I love you. I'm so glad that you were in my life. You have a beautiful son who's got a wonderful life coming, and I miss you terribly. And they never found her body. Well, no, to admit where it is, she'd have to admit she killed her right, and they just never found what the fuck? She probably put it
in a dumpster. Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Maybe yeah, shit, Well that's crazy story that is so so crazy, Like why especially why she's with Dave, Why is she she's got Dave. Yeah, they're together. Why would she still pretend? Maybe that brought the sense of that brought them together, but even I mean, okay, so you're together, he's with you, everything's going fine. Do you still need to continue? It's true?
Why do you still need to continue? You're right because she's crazy, Because she's crazy, and she needed to make it maybe look like Carrie was still alive. But fifteen thousand emails and fifty thousand texts, that's insanity. Is insanity. So I want to think you guys were all listening to this crazy story. I think that's it. I think that's it. I think that's enough. Crazy's story. Man, people are wild. Anyway, Poor
poor Carrie, I know your Max man. Yeah right, like she missed her son growing up all because for what I want to know exactly how it all went down. I know that's crazy. Yeah. Anyway, Well until our next episode, don't kill each other. Bye,