Friday Night Special: Shocking New Delphi Killer Conversations Revealed

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace and it's Friday night. You know what that means. I've got a Friday Night special for you. Delphi killer Richard Allen. The evidence just keeps piling up. We're learning things now. We didn't hear it trial. Now what will all the haters say, all the trolls online that said the jury got it wrong, the judge was wrong, the prosecutors were wrong. The victims' families, Oh, they were wrong. Susan Hendrix, who

We know Richard Allen worked as a licensed farming tech at this CVS here in Delphi. But many continue to ask and wonder how a man now charged with two counts of murder managed to stay under the radar in a town of about three thousand people. Those who live in Delphi are still trying to cope with news that Richard Allen is the man police say murdered Abby Williams and Libby Jerman.

I mean, it's the day after Halloween, but it is. It's a little eerie.

And tense in downtown Delphi on the Square, businesses like the Office Tavern put up a new sign on their door reading no media aloud. They weren't the only ones. Country Hair also had a sign off camera. One business owner Total thirteen news. The community is still in shock.

Even the girls' families grappling with the reality that their girls a murderer, brutal murderer. Remember, according to one released affidavit, there were copious amounts of blood at the scene. These two little girls, libbyan Abbey had their throats slit. They are grappling with the reality that the killer was right under their nose. Take a listen to Fox fifty nine.

They're also facing a harsh reality that Richard Allen was living amongst them the whole time.

I don't know the gentleman.

Personally at all, you know, so I probably seen him, but you know, it's a small county, you know, but definitely don't. I don't know him.

One of the most chilling revelations was that Becky said Alan, who worked at a local CBS, had printed off pictures for the girls's funeral, leaving the family to wonder how did nobody know?

When the family says we didn't know him, that's like you don't know your mailman. You don't know the guy at McDonald's. It gives you a large coffee with two creams in it every morning. You don't know the neighbor three doors down, but you do. Again, thank you for being with us as we are struggling with the reality that a double killer, according to police, was right there

Town, Right in the middle of town.

If you take the CBS and make it the center of a wheel with spokes, you get to the high school, you get to the middle school, you get to the bridge. Everywhere is centered from downtown.

Well, you know, I know our pharmacists because the twins are so sick when they were little, we were in there all the time. I know them. They're families through pictures. Everybody that works there. You get to know your pharmacist, and this local pharmacy tech seemingly dealt with everybody in town. Joining me right now. Max Lewis with Fox fifty nine. You can find him on insta at Max Lewis TV.

I mean people were just when we heard about it, we saw this picture, we saw who he was. People were stunned. Five and a half years they've been investigating this and this guy has been living amongst them the whole time. He's been filling their prescriptions, they' printing off photos form at CBS, and nobody saw anything. I think that's sort of what the family was saying there. And what a whole lot of people have told me is

Right now, the shock factor. And I'll tell you what I think, and this is from having handle cases where the killer was right there in the community the whole time. Yeah, we all looked at the possibility it was a transient. But Cheryl McComb, you and I agreed on day one, this was no transient. Right day one, you and.

I said it, and we never wavered from it. We even said he would be within five miles and there once I got to Delphi and we saw where the bridge was, I mean that to me, I was like, he's even closer than I think.

And remember the guy the catfisher was Keegan kleinb Gosh I not now I know their names by heart. Keegan Kline was a perv, pasty looking dude, middle age. I think he is anyway, using a screenshot Anthony shots of a Justin Bieber looking aline trying to lure young girls. And he was talking to them just a day or two before and maybe the day of. But he lives like thirty sixty miles away, and you and I thought, yeah,

It had to be a local with intimate knowledge, because even where they crossed the creek that's where the creek was shallow. Other parts of it are waist deep.

This person knew Hold on, wait a minute, I'm trying to drink him. What you're saying parts of the creek shallow, other parts waste deep, and that factored into it. It absolutely did. Why are you saying that, because again.

This person would have to know that if you and I just were visiting that area, we would know where to cross that creek and again waist high, chest high in some places that has been raining, but he knew right where to cross where it was less than ankle deep.

And Max Lewis Fox fifty nine joining us, He's been all over this, Max Lewis. The thing is the killer would know, and you've been to that trestle Bridge times. The killer would have to know that there were other people that were in that I'm going to call it a park, it's more like a hiking area, and where he killed them, other people would not be able to see what was going on, even though they could be walking around in the hiking area.

Yeah, and you know, yeah, this is a very well traveled area, So I mean, it's hard to believe that nobody would have seen them. That may be where the sort of you remember that that chilling audio recording the down the hill. You know, we don't necessarily know, you know, if he is the bridge guy per se. You know that's still they're holding everything close to the best at this point.

Okay, wait, wait, well woa whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop the train, Max Lewis, Let's follow that theory to its logical conclusion, and that would be that there were two killers. That one guy lured them down, the so called bridge guy, and then Richard Allen raped and murdered them. I find that hard to believe. My mind is still open. But is that you're suggesting?

Well, that seems to be somewhat of the indication that we are getting at this point, because they do reddit. No, no, we're getting that from the way they're handling this. They steal those documents, they say, this investigation is ongoing. What more than they need? If they have their guide they've made and the rest they found a probable concept of David, what more.

Do they need?

Cheryl mc coombs, straighten it out, woman.

There's a great possibility there are additional victims. So they are going to connect every dot they possibly can. This investigation does not end, and arrest in a great world is where it starts.

Yeah, you know you really think I'm not picking on you, Max Lewis, You're the messenger, Okay, but do you really think this guy went from zero to one twenty mph in one day? Because I don't even when a sports car, it takes a minute to heat up. So I'm not buying it. I think what Cheryl mccoum just said is right. I think a law enforcement are looking for other young girl victims. Were they sex assaulted, were they threatened, did they feel threatened? And for people that may have helped

Before moving to DOLPHI, he lived in this home with his wife and daughter.

According to neighbors, David.

Yoder lived across the street but has known Allan since he was born and grew up with his dad.

I mean, I would have never thought living crossed the road from him, there's anything, that's.

Where we're setting my kids due if there had been any trouble.

But after hearing, Allan was arrested in charge with killing Abby Williams and Libby Jerman. He's now questioning if he really knew him.

It's just hard to believe. He's a heck of a nice guy, always has been. Heck of a nice guy, always has been. Well, you know what they said that about Joseph DiAngelo, the Golden State Killer. In fact, he had even been a cop. He was in Oxford, California. They said the same thing about the dog catcher, which makes me suspicious that get go who wants to catch dogs and put them to debt? Not me BTK buying, torture kill. Dennis Rader, deacon at the church, freak, complete

He was a good kid growing up. I mean, never in any trouble. They were a good family. His dad is a friend of mine. Uh he uh, there's just good people all around, good people. They're very smart people. His Grandpaul was the principal at my grade school and a teacher. Uh that there's just a good family all around, good family, and I just a shock to think that rec.

Could do something like this. But it's just it's just a shock.

Like I said, I would have sent my kids over there to a safe.

House, over to him if I had to, you know, to go there if there was any problems and I wasn't home or something.

Well. I feel the same way about Connie Joey Jones. If somebody told me Connie Joy Jones aka Joy Jones committed a double murder much less on children, I'd say no way. I'd go to court and go under oath and talk about what a great person she was and is and has been alone with my children, and I would have her be alone with them again. I know what you're saying. What is his character? You keep saying

He always spoke, He was real nice, cordial, never disrespected me. I mean, I'm older than he is several years.

He was better friends with his dad than him, But I will growing up.

How much older are you, Dan, Richard Allen, I'm fifty eight and Alan is fifty right, Okay, eighteen years fifty, so somewhere now when you say, good guy, How did he do in school? Did he play a sport?

Not so much an athlete?

No, what did he do? I don't know just what to school.

I wasn't with him in school. His dad I was. Is that who you're talking about?

No, I'm talking about Richard Allen. I'm not as interested in his parents Richard.

I was out of school when Richard went to school. I mean, I was eighteen years old than he was. He's young enough to be my kid.

And never a bit of trouble when he was growing up. That is, he brothers and sisters. He's got one sister. Where does she live.

I don't know.

I lost track of her a long time ago. I mean, and I have Richard too. He moved away from here. I just kind of lost track of him.

Talking about Richard Allen, neighbors that actually grew up with him saw him grow up as a child like David Yoder or having a hard time taking in that he

Alan has no criminal history, but Carol County Dispatch records show he had one encounter with police in twenty fifteen. The sheriff said it was a domestic issue where Allan was supposedly drunk and his wife took him to a lit hospital. No law enforcement action was taken, but deputies were sent to his del Phi home to quote, keep the peace.

Okay, Max a little. So far, the cops haven't come to our home to keep the peace, and nobody's been carted off to the emergency room drunk as a skunk? So what do we know about what happened?

They were providing a whole lot of clarification about that. You know, it sounds like there was you know, as I said, there there was a domestic situation. When I asked the shriff, who's the domestic station situation between he wouldn't tell me. So, you know, I am a little suspect of this, but you know that was But it's also the only other thing I ever founded him. I mean, you saw, I went to his hometown, looked through his criminal background. That's the only thing we found about him.

That, and I certainly will I certainly will dis say that who is up causing a ruck as drunk as a skunk at three am? That's not good to Fran Longwell, former Deputy State's Attorney in Calvert County, former Assistant State's Attorney and Prince George specializing and homicides and other related crimes. Fran thank you for being with us. What do you make of this prior arrest the prior arrest.

I think it shows in my opinion that he does have some type of violence streak in him.

But I kind of agree with you.

Nancy, that this didn't start from zero to what happened to these little girls. I'm just concerned that we're going to find other victims, or we're going to find other other kids that have been abused by this guy.

Yeah, why are you saying that, Cheryl McCombe. What leads you to that speculation? But by the way, I agree.

With you, Well, I mean, again, broad daylight, two victims with other people around, a victim that clearly has a cell phone, that is high risk. You're talking about somebody on the bridge that's, you know, eighty feet behind the air and has boards missing, and everything he did was so risky. It tells me that ain't his first rodeo. And I want to say one more thing. When I was.

Listening to the neighbors speak, and I think people need to understand when you look at a case like this and you're only thinking from your vantage point, you can't possibly accept.

It or understand it. But when you talk to criminologists like you and I, Nancy, we talked probably their throats were slash, they were posed, they were staged. Things were probably done there, whether it's a carving or some sort of ritual if you look at it. If this was my case, one of the first things I would do is go to CBS and see if there's a camera in the girls restaurant.

Well, that's funny you would say that, because after our investigating a case in chief, the very next thing I would do is start looking for similar transactions. But you said it so much more descriptively than I did. Because a crime like this that there has got to be some prior not necessarily Scott Peterson type case where that is a domestic homicide. He hasn't had another wife to

Richard Allen was not a stranger to this community. Information uncovered by our RUSSA quaid from sources with knowledge of the investigation. He even came forward in the early days of the investigation as a witness from the moment high Bridge, the day Abbey and Libby were killed in February of twenty seventeen. Now, at the time, any inquiry did not reveal the need for further investigation. However, his name surfaced

Ten days before the arrest of murder suspect Richard Allen, police officers extensively searched the fifty year old's home. Neighbors tell the New York Posts the non uniformed officers were on the property for about twelve hours. During the search of the property, Allen chairs with his wife.

Officers were seen.

Quote snooping a lot around the fire pit and at the backyard. A neighbor describes quote lots of flashlights, lots of pictures, lots of sifting unquote in that area. The source says that it was odd for them to be in that area, as the Allens were never observed burning things. The neighbor also said when police arrived at the property, no one suspected that there would be a.

Connection to the murders of Living and Abbey. What are they looking for? What were they looking for? If the Allens really didn't use the fire pit, then what were they digging around for? Could have anything to do with blood evidence and there will be blood evidence marked my words. Take a listen to our friends at WISH.

This nine page request for a search warrant filed March seventeenth of twenty seventeen. Now that's a little more than a month after Libby Jerman and Abby Williams were found murdered in Delphi. This disturbing document, for the first time gives us an investigator's description of the crime scene and what the suspect may have taken with him. The document, written by an FBI agent, describes what investigators found when they discovered the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German

Straight out to Fox fifty nine's Max Lewis, all of that together, let's make sense of it. Number one, A twelve plus hour search of Richard Allen's home. A few days later, they come back and arrest him. They're digging around a very unused fire pit with disturbed earth near by. We know there's blood evidence. And also did you hear that that he actually came forward as a witness in the early days of the investigation.

Yeah, he from what we have heard from our sources. You know, he you know, walked up and volunteered to police and said, hey, you know, I was up there. I didn't really see anything, but you know I can tell you, you know, whatever you need.

To know or whatever.

So, you know, that's sort of another amazing thing. And he was sort of brushed off and not really given a whole lot of thought to as far as the search goes on his house. Yeah, they were neighbors told us they were searching around there, digging in the backyard, digging in a fire pit. Makes you wonder what was in that fire pit? Was he trying to get rid of something, you know, what was going on back There so many, so many unanswered questions about this, but it all doesn't look good.

I want to circle back to what you just said. Tell me again. Max Slow is joining us from Fox fifty nine, who's been on the case from the very very beginning. You stayed at the in the initial days of the investigation that Richard Allen went to police and said I was there and offered himself up as a witness.

That's right, he was, you know, on he said he was on the trail that day. And I'm not exactly sure how the encounter happened if he was, you know, if police came upon him and started, you know, asking him, or if he just walked up to them and said, hey, I was here, didn't see anything. But you know, I can help you with what you need to know. But we do know that he was interviewed by police in the days after Abby and Libby first disappeared and then were found murdered.

To Karen started joining me. Renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan at karenstart dot com. That's Karen with the Sea Karen. He places himself at the scene of the murder. Scott Peterson did that idiot. He places himself there claiming he's fishing on Christmas Eve in the cold and the rain, and then Lacy and Connor's bodies turn up miraculously where he was fishing, and then in the weeks that followed, he was tracked back and forth to the San Francisco

I'm not the.

Least surprised, Nancy, because, yes, perhaps looking for evidence, But the truth is, when you're that kind of person, a psychopath, capable of doing this without empathy, you are, in many instances rewiving what happens. He's enjoying. Believe it or not every moment of this very cunning and manipulative sitting under posters with his own sketch in the back of him. And I want to tell you something. You mentioned all those killers who everyone keeps saying, you know, yeah, I

He did that.

Think about it, he goes, he's the one that the senseily committed this crime, and he's volunteering. And I think that very often police forget to look at a person like this. If they want to be there, they want to be a part of it. They're getting it thrill out of reliving it and being a part of the process.

I don't know if the name Rodney al Kala rings the bell and Cheryl says, you're jumping in, I'll throw this to you. He was the Dating Game killer, Rodney al Kala, and he was so charming, he managed handsome, the works to some people, not me, but many people. He was so charming and personal that they put him on the Dating Game remember that show, and he turned out to be a cold bloody.

Killer, cold bloody killer.

But let's talk about people getting gray shape themselves in cases Zodiac did it, Zodiac couldn't take it and had to write them letters. And let's talk about another thing with Wayne Williams that is identical to this case. Wayne Williams also burned things, not in a fire pit, but on his grill. Remember after police, yeah, and FBI came. Okay, So these are people that the thrill that she mentioned

And that is the victim's sister had contact.

But I'll tell you something else. I guarantee you he went to the funeral or the viewing. And I guarantee you he was a volunteer searcher, whether it was official or not. I guarantee he was out there.

Okay. I got a pretty good idea what may have been burned and that fire pit. Take a listen to our friend to me Johnson WISHTV.

Authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls was missing from the crime scene, while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girl's bodies were moved and staged. The agent goes on to say, based upon my training and experience, it is common for perpetrators of this type of crime to take a souvenir or in some fashion memorialize the crime scene. The agent also references the video on Libby's phone, confirming

That the girls were followed.

By the suspect on the Monon Highbridge trail, and that there were no visible signs of a struggle or fight.

Crime stores with Nancy Grace to this day. Richard Allen says he's the victim and that there's been a horrible miscarriage of justice. Another oddity. Immediately after the girls go missing, Kathy Allen, that's Richard Allen's wife of thirty four very long years. I'm sure the mother of his daughter, Britney,

I think that's totally that's natural. I think a lot of them, a lot of serial killers, for sure, always seemed to take some kind of souvenir. We had a case years ago where they were finding bodies along the Beltway and in areas for shortest County, and years and years later, death suspect was found. He was able to draw pictures of each feel what she looked like, and he had some sulvenir each one of those murders. I don't think that's unusual. I think that's part of their excitement of the crime.

What about it, Karen Stark, New York psychologists joining us today from Manhattan. What about taking souvenirs, It's very common. It's like, you know, all those scrapbooks I have of the twins. I mean, I don't even know how many I've got Birthday, Christening, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Birthday, just goes on and on in summer vacation for every year they're fifteen. Karen, those are my souvenirs.

But their souvenirs are of the crime, Nancy. They want to relive it. That's the whole thing is that it's exciting to them. So two pieces of clothing. I hate to say this, but I have a feeling it will be underwear, because they like to do that. To take underwear, to take some kind of token that they've been there, that they did is it gives them a really good sense of themselves. They're powerful, they're aboveve the law and they got away with them.

And they're caught dead in the water. Cheryl McCollum. The evidence would suggest this. What about the theory that the girls were redressed and that somehow some of their clothing were interchanged by accident.

Again, those of us in this business, redressing is something that occurs.

I mean, it's something that they have ted Bundy. Oh, after the person was dead, he had redressed them and do their hair and makeup, had bathed their bodies in the pathtub at the house.

Is what keys did the same thing, make up, hair, redress them, pose them raiding the girl's hair like polk.

Yeah, oh gosh, Yeah.

That's part of their fantasy. They're acting something out. So a lot of times we focus on the murder, but it is a sexually generated there's no question about it. And again his computers, when you know, the superintendent mentioned the lab so often, the electronic part, the biology, the tool marks, the voice.

Analysis, the hares, the fiber, the blood, the blood, the tool marks which is from a knife.

But I also think Arsen is going to be a money tree.

To doctor Todd m bar now joining us, speaking of blood, he is a board certified and atomic clinical forensic pathologist joining us out of Ohio. He's featured in Thin Places Essays from in Between and you can find them on Twitter at Todd Barma. That's for medical examiner, doctor bar Thank you for being with us and waiting for the build up to the scientists, the medical examiners that ultimately says there are no eyewitnesses as of yet will make

Well, Nancy, it seems to me. I know that there's some speculation that possibly the throats of the victims had been flashed, and you know, because the carotid arteries are under such high pressure, there would be a lot of spatter and disbursement of blood in the process. So you're absolutely one hundred percent correct. That would be transfer of that blood evidence not only onto the victim's clothing, but

Wow, that was a lot of information, doctor Todd Barr. So I'm just digesting everything that you just said. Got a question. If this is, as we believe, a stabbing death, I find very very unusual. I would have suspected a strangling death or some sort of asphyxiation under these circumstances, But due to the copious amounts of blood too, which have been eluded in the documents, it leads me to

And if so, how depending on the type of knife that may have been used. If it was one that had a serrated edge, you could actually if it if the tool actually got into the bone in the area that's that's where the tool marks are found when the when the blade would pass over the bone, and if it's serrated, they can actually match up those serrated edges almost identically to show you know that a specific tool

Five years after the murder, right years passed after the murders before Richard Allen was arrested, a seemingly clerical error meant the tip, a specific tip fell through the cracks, but when it resurfaced, Richard Allen was re interviewed and confirmed he was on the trail and wearing the same outfit blue jeans and a car heart jacket as the guy caught on camera by the victims. What more will

Mm hmm