Werewolf? There Wolf!

And on today's episode, we're talking about werewolves. Where are they? What are they? And is there any truth behind the werewolf legends? Discover this and more as we answer the age old question does your dog want to eat your face? So in the Principality of Ansbach, where is now an area in modern day Germany, had a bit of a werewolf problem. You see, the townsfolk of Ansbach were once ruled by a despicable mayor whom everyone hated. And fortunately

nature took its course and the mayor died. Unfortunately, the mayor came back as an undead werewolf. This werewolf terrorized the town, killing livestock and was even said to devour people. The townsfolk, fed up of this well fed wolf, gathered in a hunting party along with their faithful dogs, and chased the wolf into a well where it was easily killed.

To make certain that their ex mayor turned werewolf could not rise from the grave again, they clothed the wolf and a man's garments, chopped off its nose, and put a human mask on its face. This grizzly man wolf cadaver was then hung on a pole in the town square. Now, of course, this wasn't a real werewolf, just a very unfortunate loner wolf who got a little greedy ate some sheep and got killed and dressed up by a bunch of angry and upsettingly creative townsfolk. But where does the

werewolf story come from? And are there any wolves that match up with the legends? Joining me today to talk about the myth and reality? Is comedian human and definitely not a werewolf? Nick Turner, Yeah, young, Does that have like a connection to werewolves or No? I'm just just trying to trying to get him nominated, get him the Democratic nomination. Well I'll talk about um. So I have some questions. Where did they get the human face? The what do you mean, oh, and the townspeople. It was

a mask. It was just a mask then't like I mean it was in my head one of these like take my face. Yeah, yeah, No, it wasn't quite that Jigsaw nightmare. Just a little bit of Jigsaw nightmare. Okay, I so, um, I wanted to guess on the spelling of a go for it, okay, um, okay, yeah, now here's where it gets difficult. Okay, you out. Okay, it's a N, S, B A C H. Now, full disclosure, I don't speak German. I have no idea if I

pronounced that right, I was probably spelling the way. And if German listeners you can definitely correct me, but I probably won't bring it up again. I think you're right. So you know we're we're wolves. They're wolves, get it anyways, I don't. This is gonna be this is gonna be rough. I'm all right. That was my only joke I wrote for this whole episode. So already off to a great There are actually were wolves all over the world in

different cultures. So in Greek mythology, Zeus turned a wicked man named like kon lice on probably like on like like it. Oh, yeah, maybe Lichen that actually no, no, you want you know what? That's probably right. So he turned a wicked man named Lichen into a wolf. Lichan had tried to serve Zeus a meal made of his own son. So Lichan killed his own son and tried to serve it to Zeus as I guess, like a bit of like a prank or like are you really

a god? If you're yeah, like, if you're a god, you would know that this meal I'm serving you as my dead boy. M Maybe it would be a prank to serve Zeus's son to him. Yeah, but I don't see it. No, it's I don't know. I mean, it's also not a great prank the other way you got pumped. Zeus was not a fan of this stunt, and he turned Likan into a wolf man creature. And this is where the word like canther he comes from. Uh and like anthropy is turning the condition in which you turn

into a wolf? I guess, yes, that is it? Straight from Webster, Yes, yes, straight from web m d Um. In Armenian folklore, women who are sinful are cursed to spend seven years in wolf form, and they go out and eat children okay it could I know, right, Like it's like you're cursed, okay to be a wolf? Right then nobody knows it's you because you're a wolf and then you turn back into a human. Why don't more people utilize the chain me up once a once a month? You know? I mean that was Did you ever see

that movie What we Do in the Shadows? Yeah, yeah, that's what they would do that I love. I love the attention to detail in that renowned film what we do with the Shadows where they turns change. But then what about the so like there's a group of werewolves who change them sells up to prevent themselves from like killing people. But what about the last guy? Like how does he? You know, how do they do that? Well? You change your chain yourself up? Because you can't you

do you do? Like a day earlier, you know, like you're just a dude. You're like, all right, it's time to get my Netflix. Yeah, get my you know stack of pizzas here next to Mike. Chain yourself up? And then Netflix stops and it's like are you still watching? And you're like halfway and my plods, no, MYX just

kicked me off of my Netflix. In Haitian legends, uh, their werewolves are actually called the rouges, are similar to zombies or vampires, who try to spread their werewolf condition to others, either by kidnapping children or possession, and relatedly another sort of like uh, I guess I think this one also works a little bit like a vampire. So in New York, in New Orleans there's the rue grew Um.

I want to send out a thanks to a very young listener named Laney from Memphis who gave me this suggestion. Thank you, Laney. She's afraid of the ruguru, but she's fascinated by it, which I think is also how I got into spiders and creepy animals. It's like, at first it's scary, and then you're like, you know what, I'm going to buy a whole book on it because I want to be scared all the time. You know, this thing that could kill me? It's fine now, well it's

it's empowering. It's like I'm afraid of spider's being in my bed, which is a real fear I had as a kid. It's like, you know what, I want to learn about all the spiders? Give give me all the spiders I'm just moved to Echo Park and there are a bunch of black widow spiders everywhere. And then the first day I moved in, someone showed me a spider. You're like, oh, yeah, look, I can find one here, and then it took you maybe ten seconds. Black widow.

Then there's a black widow, Like, Okay, how is everyone living? I can't. They can't. They don't typically kill adults. The bite just really really sucks. It's not you don't want to get bitten by a black widow. You'll probably have to go to the hospital because you'll get a big old welt. So I won't die. But I have Speaking of creatures, I have one. I have a little mini poodle mix and uh what about that? What about if little cheetah gets I would say that would be an

emergency trip to the vet. I think they seem a lot more menacing than they actually actually are. For yeah, they don't. First of all, they don't. They're shy. They don't want to tangle with you. The worst. The way you get bitten by a black widow is essentially you trap it against your skin and then it reacts and fear it's not going to like track you down and

bite you. Okay, that's yeah. So the Ruguru, which is uh mythical creature in Cajun folklore, is a kind of It's a big man dog wolf creature that and there are a few different versions of the Ruguru. One will hunt down naughty children, So careful, lady, my, my young listener, you better be good or else the ruguru will get you. I'm just kidding, It's fine, she seems like. Also, it will hunt down Catholics who don't respect the rules of

lent um. Happened in other legends. The ruguru is a blood sucker, and if you've had your blood sucked by ruguru, you'll turn into one as well. So that's sort of the vampire. It's weird that the Catholics needed to make something up because they've got the devil and they've got like the wrath of God. I can't really think of, like what scared It's like if eternal damnation doesn't scare you a dog man, what if he's a big old

dog man. There have been some theories about like why werewolves are so I guess you bbiquitous throughout all human cultures. We have werewolves here in America, you know, there's werewolf in London, there's the teen Wolf, all sorts of wolves everywhere all over the world. I'll tell you why, oh go for it already. I'm sorry. You don't even need to do the rest of all, right, because they're sexy. Yeah,

that's true. Who does that? Harry is the most testosterone right, Yeah, I mean I I've been wanting like a sexy heartthrob werewolf for a while. We keep getting vampires, which to me, it's like, oh, give me an anemic looking guy. It's like, no, give me a guy who is her suit. Yeah. Well, isn't that Twilight team team not Jacob jab Jacob is the werewolf bad boy? Yeah? Maybe not the best actor for to represent as a whole, right, I mean, look, well,

you can't generalize werewolves as a wholes No. Also, Michael J. Fox, I mean we only know wimpy well Michael J. Fox, Okay, I'm going to come to the defense of my called Jay Fox, because it's more about like pre transformation. You can look like whatever, but it's the fortitude, right, It's it's if you're a wolf at heart, that's what matters, because like after the transformation, then you're just like a big old Harry wolf. It doesn't matter what you look

like before. You could be the due vious guy, as long as you have that intention to kill a bunch of innocent people. That's what counts. That's what I always say. And the puberty aspect, right right, yeah? Yeah, Well so there's some other theories not as good as your own. Um. So there is a book called it's I think it's more of a like journal. I'm not really sure. It's a short book. It's called The Book of were Wolves. It's by Sabine Baring Gould. And this was actually written

back in nineteen oh something. Yeah, it's a it's an old book. Uh. And it claims that oh wait, no, no, no, here this is a different Sorry I got confused. So the Book of Werewolves was actually published a long time ago. This was in eighteen sixty five, and it says that the werewolf was a way for humans to describe unexplained killings or serial killers. So you've got a serial killer on your hand. And before, like pretty recently, we didn't have this concept of the serial killer. This was before

true crime podcasts broke through. And you know, this was during the Civil War. I'm gonna say, yes, I don't know any literally anything about history. I am an alien. Worried about someone commenting on the fact everybody's dying sense Yeah, yeah, I mean I do. And we've talked about this on the show before. But I think that monsters that become popular often express the main anxiety of a culture at

the time. So vampires were super popular back when there was like a lot of consumption, which is like tuberculosis, where like a disease, they didn't really know what it was. They didn't know how to stop at people coughing up blood and suddenly looking like anemic and like they were being drained of their life force. And vampires were really popular because it was like kind of a way to I guess, conceptualize the fear, give a shape to the fear.

The zombie was came about, you know, as we started to worry more about pandemics and like we became more interconnected, and then all of these things about like stars and these pandemic fear came into view. And my guess would be that now we're going to have monsters that have

something to do with climate change. Although if you look at like the horror movies now it could also have to do with wealth and equality, like I think parasite, you know, and get out and these these other movies, like horror movies are becoming a way to express I guess, cultural problems and fear years and anxieties and and I think it's but I think it's always been that way. I think horror has always been an expression of societal fears everyone. It was just so simple, just someone running

out of the woods and grabbing you. A beautiful time. That was a good time, just when the metaphor didn't go beyond like I don't know a wolfman that feat your face? Yeah, the ba guy has to be like riding a comment. Well, so in terms of this theory, that it is that the werewolf is used to explain serial killers. Okay, so Laney, my young listener, maybe you shouldn't listen to this party or have your dad listened first and just tell you about it. But I wanted

to exactly exactly. I've had to change the whole show so many can listen to it. So there was a man named Peter Stump who was a German farmer who lived in the late fifteen hundreds, who was also known as the werewolf of bed Berg, and he was a serial killer who confessed confessed to killing and eating people, including their hearts. He also claimed to use a magical belt to transform into a wolf, but the belt was

never actually found. He was probably just a liar and a murderer, but people were really it's a magical girdle that turns me into a wolf. And you see, that is why I ate all those women's hearts. It's again again, he's a liar and a murderer. And but unlike today where people will be like uh huh yeah, like back then they're like, oh a belt, you'll say we are in fifteen hundreds Germany in a week, no more belts.

There's also something known and this is just I don't want to make the connection between this and crazy cannibalistic murdering, but this is as were wolves are used to explore lane serial killers. It's also when you get into the

realm of psychology. If you are suffering from a psychological illness, sometimes cultural fears will be reflected in the mental illness that you have, so clinical like caanthropy is a form of psychosis that involves being in an altered state of mind where you believe you transform into typically a wolf, but it can be other animals and it's a not like, um, you know, this isn't like putting furries on blast here, this is not about this isn't like about a fun

kind of thing that you do putting furries on blast. No, no, furries are great, But now this is it's more that it's like a distressing delusion that you turn into other animals. Um. And uh, there was like and sometimes it's not wolves. Like there was a case in which someone thought that they would go through through a series of transformations into animals before being finally able to return to their human form.

This is kind of related to we've talked about Cotard delusion, which is the delusion that you don't exist, like either your body is a corpse or you just aren't physically there. And it's it's a interesting thing. Where are you know, in our in our brains, we have neural networks that basically tell us like you exist and your body is

corporeal and like that there's reminding me. But for some people that gets like a little bit messed up, and then you're like okay with the Cotard delusion, it's like okay, I don't exist or my body is decaying. With clinical like canthropy, it's this, I guess, almost like a dissociation where you think your body is transforming into these animals. And I think it is informed by what you learn

from your culture. So if werewolves are a big thing in your culture, you may think I'm a werewolf and have these these delusions that are quite distressing that you are you actually transform into these wolves. Okay yeah, Um, so does that mean that you think that that that liar from before maybe he wasn't lying. Well, so yeah, I don't know, because nobody that's true. I mean, it was in the hundreds, so it's like I'm going off of basically Zulch direct evidence. But yeah, I mean I

think it's definitely possible for I don't think. I want to make it very clear that clinical like caanthropy is not associated with people being violent or anything like that, but it is possible that he had something like that in addition to his bath salts that he was right hundreds bath salts. It's just dirt, people, Um, I just took a bath, That's why you're freaking out. And there's another theory about why where will legends are so widespread

over every culture. Uh and also used to explain serial killers or danger. And this was in a short book called The Origin of the Werewolf Superstition written in nineteen o nine by Caroline Taylor Stewart, and she argues that early humans would skin wolves and wear their skins, which was like sort of a form of camouflage, and you

would go and hunt wolves. And she also contended that people would also wear these wolf skins to I guess mess with other groups of people, Like it could be a way to get close to like a rival group without them realizing your people until you're close up and then suddenly it's not a wolf. It's like a man

in wolves clothing. Uh. And I mean this book was written in nineteen o nine, not not to disparage nine, but again it's I don't know that there's like a lot of really hard evidence for these theories, yet they're just Um, there could be a deep seated fear of a human disguised as a wolf or I guess any animal that means to do you harm, because maybe like in early humans, that would be the case like that, uh, And I think that could be true. Like again, this

was a this is an old book. We had a lot of goofy ideas back in that really just like or like when you look at the there are these pictures of these dogs that have quote unquote human faces because they're they're I guess the proportions of their faces are just a little bit human like. And it's really it's it's very like if you google it, you can find like human face dogs. Its basically. What is so funny to me about that whole thing is like every one of these dogs is like, oh, it's a dog

with a human face. It's a dog that just looks like it's got a secret, Like and you know that dogs like pooped in somebody's shoe, and it's like, I got a secret. I have a friend that has a dog with a very human face, and it definitely has a secret, and it also has a disturbingly large and so it's it's very distracting. You barely noticed the face.

Well that's I mean, that's I think, like you pan up from from the bottom of the dog to its face, and that's that's that's that's where the smugness is coming from. He doesn't have a secret, he's just let it out. He knows rocking out with my young listeners. That's getting completely ducked duck bleeped out. The fear of wolves inspire makes a good amount of sense, but as humans living in modern society, we have little to fear from wolves

as long as you're not Liam Neeson. In North America, in the past century, there have only been six people killed by healthy while wolves, and including captive or rabid wolves, that brings the total only up to eleven. So while if fear of wolves doesn't make much sense for modern humans, it's something that comes in handy when managing dear populations. Because humans have pushed wolves out of their habitat, their

numbers have declined. In North America. This has led to unhealthy booms and dear populations, causing disease, starvation, and damage to the ecosystem where vegetation has no chance to regrow. There have been programs repopulating wolves in North America, and researchers have found that not only do wolves help control the dear population through those sort of obvious method of eating them, it turns out that a deer's fear of

wolves is very eco friendly. When a deer of voids areas where they know wolves are lurking, those areas are spared from their dear appetites, allowing new growth of vegetation to occur. So, in a way, wolves are gardeners, adorable murder gardeners. When return, we'll talk more about real life wolf facts, including dire wolves. Calm down, John Snow, Our budget definitely doesn't allow you to keep your c g I PET. Working out is hard. It's always been hard.

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Oh around twenty years ago. You see, you're a mastodon with a dream to become the first ever mastodon to get a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, which back then was made out of logs and twigs and stones and stuff. You're practicing your monologue for The Godfather where you play Massa don Corleone. It's a corleon. How do you cor Leona? Okay, yeah, you can tell him

a cultured individual malony Corleoni. You're practicing your monologue for the Godfather where you play Massa don Corleone, when suddenly you feel a weird stickiness under your foot. While you were studiously rehearsing your lines, you didn't notice where you were going, and your feet are standing in a puddle of strange, black tar like substance. You struggle to get out, but every step you take seems to pull you in deeper into this stigy and tar pit. I hate place

to see. Earra Monday's you trumpet and mast did on language. But as soon as your words leave your trunk, you realize your problems are even greater than slowly sinking into the pit. You realize you're surrounded by dozens of pairs of bright yellow eyes and the soft sound of excited growling. Twenty thousand years later, paleontologists drag up a group of fossils from the LaBrea tar pits, finding not only parts

of the mastodon skeleton, but dozens of dire wolf skulls. So, Nick, you're you're You're from l A. You live in l A. I have been to Lebrea tar pits a number of times. I've also paid the money. Baby, I have a picture. I'm very proud of me standing in front of all those dire wolves called a beautiful walls. It's up, Yeah, it's a big old wall of wolf skulls. It's it's really awesome. Highly recommend. Yeah. Yeah, so, as you know,

we have a bunch of these dire wolf skulls. Dar Wolves used to roam around the l a area and sitting atop it's like a prequel to Godfather. But but his name is Corleone and it's before before he became the Dawn. Yeah. So dire wolves lived from about a hundred and twenty five thousand years ago and when extinct around nine thousand, five hundred years ago. Uh, just about when humans appeared in North America. So they were round at the same time as humans, but not for long

he did. They hunted much of the mega fauna that roamed North America. So that included the large ground sloths that used to be around Mastodon's bison, and an extinct species of horse that was native to North America. So to be clear, the horses that we have now are actually not the native species of horses that used to live here. The current modern day horses are domesticated iberia In horses which were brought by Spanish invaders. Uh you know,

back in our twisted, twisted little history. So dire wolves were actually they were more powerful than today's wolves, but they weren't giant compared to them. So the biggest wolves today are the Northwestern wolf also known as the Mackenzy Valley wolf. The average male weighs around a hundred and thirty pounds, whereas the dire wolf on average weight around a hundred and fifty pounds. So they're a little little chunk here heavy as me ver No put in a

puzzle way, you could take on a dire walk. Yes, I could take on two baby three. So they also had fearsome jaws with a bite force greater than any living species of wolves. So they were they were bidy boys and girls. So yeah, like we were saying, you can visit a dar wolf if you live in l A. I mean it's bones, I guess, not not alive. Yeah, yeah, they're body but what else? What were there other options?

You know, using their well developed paws too, well they would actually so, so they're hunting techniques typically were probably

packed structures like wolves are today. And I know it's tempting to think of them as like the Game of Thrones wolves that made these majestic leaps and like tore off someone's face, but they would actually leap at the prey item's feet and legs and drag them and pull them sort of like a like dirty fighting where they would like trip them, and then once you're on the ground, that's when the pack descends upon you. So they're they're sneaky. Yeah, yeah,

I like that. That's smart. That's like the what are the little the little veloci raptors in uh the ones, uh a little bird like veloscar raptors. Yeah, they get thee yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean velociraptors, Yeah,

are very much respect to the technique. Yeah, I mean if you think about like you think about like back before I mean this was dinosaurs were not around at the same time as dar wolves, but back before mammals rose to prominence, you would have very similar kinds of animals, So velociraptors, you know, may and in these other I also, I'm not great on dinosaurs, so I also don't remember the names of the little tiny ones, but yeah, they probably hunted as packs as well, and probably employed similar

tactics some of the species. There's actually someone who is trying to resurrect the dire wolf and uh This is not Jurassic Park stuff. Like they're not taking a dire wolf skull finding like a little scrap of DNA meat

on it, and they should, but they they're not. They do love that stuff, but they're actually this is a dog breeding project, and I want to preface it with I often kind of take issue with dog breeding because I think that, well, first of all, there's obviously sort of the irresponsible breeding where it's like puppy mills are just like you know, bad breeders who create really unhealthy

dogs and really cruel conditions. But beyond that, even in sort of the responsible breeding world, I would say that breeding dogs based on superficial aesthetics kind of creates a It ignores factors like behavioral health and physical health, and so you get dogs that either have physical health problems or they can also have mental health problems, and that's from essentially in breeding them, or even if you're not in breeding them, you are breeding them based on this

superficial quality of aesthetics, and that can have a bad effect on their health. But this project, I'm still not completely convinced this is a good idea. But of these sort of like projects that I've read this is not not. This seems like if if you want to do this, this is the way to go about it. I'm still

gonna make some people mad, and I apologize. I'm like already out here being like I have to say it's evil, but okay, Well, So the Dire Wolf Project was started in eight by Louis Schwartz, and she said she was motivated by the fact that people were interested in wolf dogs. And this was like, probably especially after that movie Balto came out, like people wanted dogs who were like a

wolf dog because it's rare to have a wolf. We're gonna go on adventures in the mountains exactly, And I mean like Game of Thrones probably reinspired, reinvigorated that want for her, Like I want a wolf as a pet. I'm gonna say it. I'm going to say it all the time. Exotic animals are not pets. They've never made good pets. Wolves are not pets. They are they are terrible pets. Nobody's going to be happy in that situation.

You can't breed a dog with wolf, have that that hybrid and be like, oh, this is essentially going to be a dog. Nope, it is not. It is not a good idea. No could I mean, well yeah, I mean all of the above could happen. Yeah, all of the above could happen. And it's just they wolves are and we'll talk about this a little later. That wolves are not just dogs that are untamed. That's not not true. And so people want these wolf dogs, but they are

so unequipped to have a wolf as a pet. Even if you have a wolf dog hybrid, it's still going to have that extremely wild element to it. And you know, not dogs have had hundreds of thousands of years with humans and it's taken that long for them to do what we say, essentially without going berserve. And they still sometimes go berserk. I mean, talk to my dog. She

she's a little fire cracker. But yeah, so you so, instead of having a an actual wolf dog, her goal was to create a dog that looks like a wolf, looks like actually a dire wolf, but is not, you know, made out of wolf parts. I guess. So she she's bred the I think it's pronounced al sat Alsatian, maybe American Alsatian. It's intended to not just look like a wolf, but to be a good companion dog. So she says that she prioritizes behavior over the aesthetics of the dogs.

So again, I'm still skeptical of any dog breeding program that is like has some kind of aesthetic goal, because I think that's it's just not important to me what a dog looks like. All the most popular dogs on Instagram have horrible medical conditions and are dying. I need to be dragged around. I mean, it's it's not too much of an exaggeration. Like he as an example, I absolutely adore pugs. I think they're adorable. I love them. They do often have a lot of medicals. You need

a nose turns out. Yeah, yeah, like that's what I hear. Any any dog without a snout, it's going to have. It's hard to have, like having those compact nasal passageways and and that's not you know again, like I love dogs, I love all you know that they're adorable and I love them, and the dogs themselves are not at all to be blamed for this, But yeah, I think that it's I don't know, but I don't want anyone to think I am get out of this. What are you doing?

What are you doing? You? Okay, let me get this straight. You turned your your face into just a wrinkly raisin, which no, know what what what I want to talk to your great great great great great great grandfather. When you sneeze, your eyeballs pop out. Really you thought that

was a good idea? Yeah, So I guess she's using German shepherd's, Alaska Mala mutes, the Great Pyrenees Akitas, and Irish wolf hounds, and then she's choosing the ones that I guess are the most gentle and nicest and then trying to I guess, like create a super friendly, huge wolf, And in terms of the looks of it, it's very convincing. I would not want to mess with that guy. Again, I don't know enough about this actual program to say like, oh, yeah, like no, this was a good one because like she

factored in all the health and stuff. I don't know. So I'm still like, again, I would never necessarily recommend breeding just for aesthetics, but I do, on the other hand, I do like the idea of like, hey, you know, instead of having these, you know, just a few of these like a c K like breeds that you keep doing, Like why don't we diversify the genetic pool of dog and start like you know, allowing you to breed all these dogs, like creating mutts essentially, so that part is good.

You know, I don't know enough about it to say whether that would be cool, that would be cool. I don't know if they would do that. I mean, I'm coming from the perspective of I've got a little dog who is a mutt of I have no idea what

she is. Um, she's got some health problems and behavioral problems, like her knees are loose is the medical term, and she gets night terrors and uh, which seemed to again not you know, I don't know, maybe she was something in her past like upset and that's why she has nightmares.

But I also read like that, you know a lot of Spaniels, which I think she's part Spaniel, that we're sort of bread irresponsible in these puppy meals, Like there's like this trend of these dogs getting night terrors, and you know, I just it really break my heart because I think that dogs are so much more valuable than just what they look like they're We've literally almost co evolved with them as our companions, and you know, I

think maybe naturally selected. I mean, there is a theory that they've self domesticated, uh, to be like the ones that are well, yeah, the ones that are friendlier essentially to humans and less afraid of humans and more friendly and able to communicate better with humans were the ones that humans are like, all right, you can hang out

with us. And then they really benefited. I mean right now, dog the dog population vastly out numbers the wild wolf populations, so they bet on humans and that was a pretty good bet because we're basically assholes, you know. I I think it's an it's an interesting project. I don't I wouldn't say a percent approve, although I do think that one thing that's interesting is as dogs d domesticate, So in Russia you have this huge population of stray wolves

or sorry that's not true, stray dogs. The other one is a slightly worse problem if that were true. No, no,

a bunch of stray dogs. And as they basically go out on their own away from human intervention and and have their own little stray dog families, and uh, they become more I would say wolf like like they're There are a few signs of a domesticated dog, like patchy fur, the ear ears folding down, which has to do with sort of the same genes that seem to select for like a more calm disposition, less aggression, and certainly less

fear of humans. Also seems to be associated with the kind of puppy dog looks like the full the ears, the patchy for the shortened muzzle. And these stray dogs in Russia are starting to get back these sort of more like wolf aspects, like their ears are more pointed, their muzzles are getting longer, and they are deaf, only more fearful of humans and less trusting of humans. Is that? Do you think that's because the more afraid we are of it, the more terrifying it looks, the more likely

it is to survive. No, I actually, I mean that's a that's an interesting idea, and I don't want to dismiss it completely because but you're wrong and stupid. No, no, no, but I think I mean, I just have a slightly different theory, which is, without human intervention of us, basically rewarding the dogs that don't fear us, are friendly or

are less aggressive. The reading selection for these these wild dogs or sorry, the stray dogs are different, so they aren't necessarily going to be doing like their sexual selection process isn't going to be rewarding the ones that are more gentle or less afraid of humans or less aggressive, So then it just basically runs whichever way it goes. So it's sort of the opposite of It's like d domestication. It's the opposite direction. Yeah, the scary wolf. That is

definitely the feminist lesson. I want people to learn from this pot of which are all your listeners great? Great, Alpha, You've got to be alpha again. That whole alpha wolf structure has been debunked. So, yeah, are wolves just dogs waiting to be trained? Why don't you go find a wolf and find out? Just kidding, don't do that, Please, don't do that. You'll get torn to shreds. While wolves can be tamed, a tamed wolf is certainly not the

same as a dog. A wolf raised as a puppy by humans may certainly form a bond with their caretakers and may even tolerate other humans, although they're also likely to fear anyone other than the ones who raise them, and they're more likely to show aggression. However, wolves are much more independent. They're happy on their own or with other members of their own species. While research suggests that

dogs are extremely jazzed about seeing humans. Brain scan studies show that dogs brains respond to seeing a familiar human in the same way as they respond to getting a reward. In fact, this is a response dogs don't even have to one of their dog pals, suggesting that they see humans as extra special or maybe extra special suckers. Another difference is how wolves and dogs regard their working relationship

with humans. When presented with a puzzle in which food can be obtained by pulling a rope, tamed wolves are more independent, often trying to solve the puzzle on their own. Sometimes these wolves can and do work with humans, but only after they've given it the old wolf college try, whereas dogs eye the puzzle, give it a quick try, and then look over at a human begging for their help far more often and far more pathetically than their

wolf counterparts. So who's smarter in this scenario, the owth that can solve the puzzle on their own, or the dog who's figured out that all they have to do is stare up with those big puppy eyes to get humans to do their bidding. When we return, we'll talk about the myths and legends surrounding dogs, and when that human dog partnership gets a little too well, let's say, gustatory.

In nature, dogs have been by our sides since the very beginnings of human society, either as their wolfish ancestors awaiting table scraps, as our companions, or inner legends. Dogs have long been in folklore and myth But before I delve into the history of dog lore, I want to talk about some modern day myths about dogs. First of all,

your dogs not color blind. While a dog's perception of color is different than a human, studies have shown that they can see a variety of colors, including shades of yellow and blue. Another myth is that dog's mouth is cleaner than a humans. Sadly no, dog's mouths have just as much bacteria as our own mouths, and probably a bit of that good old butthole waiver. While dogs and humans don't always share the same bacteria, we both have around six hundred types of bacteria in our pie holes.

Another myth is that you should rub your dog's nose in any little accidents they leave around the house. Dogs probably won't make the connection between the little pie spot they've made in your frustration they'll just get confused and upset, or maybe think you're trying to brag about the threadcount of your Persian carpet. Now we'll talk about some of the mythical legends that surround dogs and what if any truth lies behind them. So, Nick, did you grow up owning a dog or did you get in a dog

as an adult? You know, I don't think you could ever own a dog, Okay, alright, alright, okay, I I've never been shut down so hard. I did grow up with um, the world's most beautiful beagle. He looked exactly like the beagle on the Mighty Dog Box. He was astray um and uh. And then our neighbors got a beagle because they left our dogs so much, and he had papers. Okay, so I got a pure bred dog. Sucked so it was like fat. It couldn't walk right, It's all the colors were. And that's what happens when

you're breathing. You get you, let you know, a couple of beagles out in the world to do a little do a little whatever, and then you come out with a beautiful, beautiful, perfect um. But yeah, Benjamin, Benjamin the beagle, I actually did not grow up with a dog as well. I grew up with cats. I still love cats. This is not this is not like a cat person versus Dog person podcast. Um, but I I as soon as I was an adult, uh, and I had my own place, I was like, I need a dog right now, and

I got one. And I was kind of surprised learning about dogs and how their brains work. I mean, my dog is maybe an outlier because she's kind of insane, um, but she's um. But just like seeing how intelligent she was and how she can pick up on such subtle cues, it was really surprising to me and I I learned a lot about dogs, and I was surprised by some things, Like I thought they were color blind and it turns out no, they're not. Yeah, I think that it is.

It's interesting to find out the science behind dogs. But I also want to talk about how dogs have insinuated themselves into our folklore and mythology, and interestingly, not always in a positive way. So have you heard of the Black Dogs of Death? Um? I mean like it was in Harry Potter. I think, like the grim in Harry Potter, And then it turned out it was Harry Potter's uncle or something. Oh yeah, yeah, but he was like a black blood uncle, right godfather. Did you know God spelled

the backwards dog? I didn't. That is very interesting. It's all coming together. But yeah, so, so the black dog of Death is not just a Harry Potter thing. Um. It is a legend in Celtic, British and Germanic folklore. It's typically a large black dog with glowing eyes who is a portent of death. It's got a few fun names here, so it's well, actually think cats more in folklore. Was like black cats are like a witch is familiar,

or even the transformed state of a twitch. Something is coming, that's it could Yeah, yeah, like a cat crossing your path is unlucky. I think in that it's like unlucky.

It's an ill omen of, like a witch nearby or something. Back. Essentially, there's actually if you want to check it out, we have a whole episode on black cats called Superstition that goes into sort of the background of of black cats and how but then real cat facts, all the cat facts you care to learn about, but this one's dog facts. So let's get back to that. Sorry, people out there, not today, so I won't be back for that episode.

So here are some of the names of the Black Dog, Dog of Death, the barg Whist, the Grim, the guy trash. These sound like pokemon names as a as a nice roasted um pad foot, which again I think that was like a Harry Potter thing. Pad Foot was one of them, shag striker or free bug, which makes so much sense. Uh,

thank you ancient Europeans for inventing dog pokemon. Uh. So, in some tales, the black dog actually just kills people directly, but for the most part it is a ghostly dog, and when you see it it is an omen of death or danger. So you'll just see this spooky dog, this shadowy dog, and I'll pop up and he's like, hey, hey man, you're you're gonna die later days for purpose? Can you can you then change your face? I mean, I think it again. It varies like maybe you can

change your face. Get all your ducks in a row, right right? Maybe though, like you try to change your fate and that's what ends up killing you. Oh that's such a good idea for a story. Has has anyone written that story before? But sometimes the black dog is benevolent. The Church Grim is a black, ghostly dog who protects Christian yards from which is warlocks and grave robbers. Um, which is a fun, heartwarming story until you here this part.

I'm sorry. Unfortunately some people thought this meant you should bury a dog as a sacrifice because the dog spirit will come back as this church grim. And I don't understand the logic of that, because I feel like the dog would come back and would be pretty pretty past a dead dog or a live dog. Oh why did you have to make me clarify? I think it was sometimes a live dog. Yeah, it seems like that's how

you that's what. Yeah, the dog comes back and it's just like, you know what, I'm pooping on these graves, try cleaning up these ghostly turns. Hey, that's not what my assign meant. It did not mean kill me. So um. I actually wonder if this myth of the these dogs of death or like the church grim, is because dogs are attracted to the smells of graveyards, like to the smells probably all that upturned dirt, dirt, maybe a bit of the smell of dead bodies or interesting to them,

you know, like just in human activity in general. So you're digging up a grave, you've got a stinky human corpse you're putting in the grave, and a dog's going like these are some cool smells, and like come over and hang out. Oh yeah. They also they already got to be pretty close to the graveyard before they can smell all that stuff. I mean, dogs have pretty since you think like it is like a shadowy caball of

dogs just waiting. I don't think my dogs like sniffing around and then like you know, walking blocks, so you think they're like they have well there maybe like one of the dogs, like Doug real deep and found a bunch of bones and told all his dog friends like, hey, this is free bones. You can get cool bones. I mean you gotta dig real deep, or you know, they're just digging a regular grave. And then they open a

you know, portal to hell. Okay, yeah, and then hellhounds counting of course, of course, of course, sir sure, speaking of hellhounds. Cerberus is the dog in Greek mythology that guards the underworld and stops souls from leaving. And it's got three heads, and it is a dog. I wonder if it's got no, no, no, it's Cerberus. Hydra also has three heads, but it's different animal. The Greeks were really into because there's the hydra. There's what's the one.

There's the hydra is like a serpent with three heads, and then there's the other one that's got like the head of a goat. That that's the chimera. You know, something that could swim a hydra okay jokes o no, no. So then there's the the chimera, which is the head of a goat, head of like a lion, and then it also it's dragon I think too. They were really into animals with a bunch of different parts, just kind of a you know, click the randomizer button and have

an animal with like seven heads and five butts. I don't even know. But the going back, it's really cool. There's one of each three heads different animals. Yeah, yeah, the camara. Yeah, there's a very popular like, yeah, last name, I really think you should be utilizing this. Yeah, or maybe he's he's a crypted yeah, in disguise. But the theory is that dogs like to scavenge dead things, and so they're associated with death. So a dog basically like

like when something does and dog. This tracks with like dog's history. They're scavengers. Wolves are even scavengers. Most animals who are going to eat meat will not look a gift body in the mouth, so they will um one down on them bones if they find a dead body. And dogs are no exception. I know, we love them and they we cherish them, and they seem really cute, but they will definitely eat a dead body, no joke,

even the cute ones, even yours. And I want to get to another sort of this is like, um, I think it's a old wives tail or something where we're like a kind of legendary thing Internet rumor what have you, which is do dogs eat their dead owners? And this actually is completely true? Um so, I mean not invariably. It's not like the dog's got little watch and like is watching you and you keel over and diets. He's like, well, puts on like a little bib with like a human

shape on. It's like it's it's lunchtime. Fallen out of love with you, and now I like, like, you know, like clearly departed, really delicious because my dog does not have much of it, doesn't have a very strong jaw, and we play a lot, you know what. He likes to bite, play very soft. He's also got plush toys that he's had since the day we got him. He does not bite through anything. Uh can he even do it?

You want me to get like like opening up? Yeah, well he would probably go for and this is this is kind of a typical scavenging tactic for the soft bits tissues. So your eyeballs, your tongue in your lips first, and the face is usually the first first thing to

get munched on. So he loves licking mouths already. I mean, like in the nightmare scenario of like you you die and your dog goes after you, probably at first like there, I mean, look, I'm not right right, Like its right exactly, you know, like you want you want him to survive too. It's like you know, hey, you know, eat and eat my dead body. Maybe it'll help you more. I mean, dogs do. I do think dogs probably more in people

when they kind of understand that they're gone. I don't know if they understand death, but they will probably be very upset that you're gone and very confused that you're there but not moving, and it would probably be pretty upset. But at a set yeah, like give him a couple of days and then they're gonna be like, but you know, I think you'd want me to eat them exactly. Yeah, see what I know, right, Like Donner party situation, you do eat the dog, and I would not besmirch begrudge

the dogs for doing the same to us. Uh. So there there's a case of this where like a whole group of these like small cute dogs ate their owners. Um. In Saskatoon, Canada, couple died. Authorities said there was like no foul play. So I guess the dogs didn't murder them, is what the police. I mean, Like, you know, I don't know how police determine that. But um, dogs did eat their owners to survive. And here's the happy ending to the story. All the dogs were adopted to new families.

They did die and we're but and again the police said there's no connection. Yes, And then the policeman took off his hat and it was you know, infrestgating burgers are rough. Uh. In fact, dogs eating people has been a fear in our culture for a while. Um in the Bible, in the bibble, Um in the Bible. Um dogs ate the body of Jezebel after she was thrown

out a window. I am not a religious scholar, so I don't really know this story, but that's pretty crazy that It's like and then they threw her out to the wind window, and yay, did dogs eat her face off? That's fun. That's everybody loves that. That's Kim jong un um, you know, supposedly fed his own dogs. I'm always skeptical. I'm all always skeptical of like, you know, crazy North Korean news because I think that like a lot of things are like, you know, how do you get actually

good sources to what happens there? And then I feel like, well, and also because I think our our media is like super eager to be like this just in Korea, like replaced all the people with robots and like everyone has to have the haircut, and I think like a lot of those stories get debunked because it's like no, like because you know a Korean guy and well, I mean it's just like like there was a thing where it's like, oh, everyone has to wear like the Kim Jong UN's hairstyle

or something, and that turned out not to be true. I think it's kind of this thing of like it's a little bit icky, that whole thing of like, oh, you know, North Korea, it's weird and foreign and they do weird crazy things. And I mean it's true the government, it's horrible and oppressive, but I also think it's a little sometimes our media like gets a little out of control with like, oh they're they're weird and for look, I'm not I'm not like coming to bat for kids.

Show us what you're doing over there. We need more information. Wow, So you are a North Korea and I stand. I stand North Korean dictators. Sorry for South Korea. No, I don't, I don't, please, don't take that. I don't believe. I can't believe I have to defend this. So um. It was also said that Romans would have short crucifixes to allow dogs to eat the bodies of recently deceased conflicts, which,

you know, Romans interesting folks. They were with all their torks stuff, had it all, and they did not do a good job with him. Yeah. Yeah, that that Caligula fellow. He was a he was a who Yeah only it was just him. But yeah, I mean, Nick, do you have any any questions about dogs now that I've brought you on this journey of werewolves and dogs eating your face? Um? I mean I do. Here's my here's my question. I

moved recently. My dog doesn't have a good way to tell me that he wants to go outside, my dog if he wants anything. Also, my dog is a girl. But uh, she would just look at me, just look at me, like hey, yeah, what's good? Where's my anything? Right? And so then I have to like do four or five different things. What's the one said? It's like like two words, like the first word kibble, no, no, kill me? What my body? Oh god? So it is a black dog with glowing eyes, and so how if eventually she

figures out? But I just moved, you know, and so it's it's tough now. But eventually she figures out what door she needs to stand next to to go out. But we haven't even gotten there yet. But I wanted more sophisticated, more sophisticated system, more sophisticated system. What what what system do you would play? Well? I mean, first of all, I guess like just make sure you're taking her out, um at least three times a day, like

way more. Because well we just moved from a place where a with a backyard, I see, so she would go out maybe times a day? Okay, okay, she's getting out plenty of times now, you know, I'll do three in the morning, because I know she liked three in the morning. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I'm trying to that many times. Yeah. Well that that's that's over. Any look,

I'm like time to go out, well, sep. I tried to kind of figure this out with my dog, and one thing I did, and this did not turn out good for me, was I hung a little bell by a string by the door and had her like boop the bell to go outside. That bell was going off every second of the whole day, just constant ringing, and then I'd lit her out and she'd come back in and get a drink of water and ding ding ding

ing ing inginging. My dog has a cool method of letting me know she wants to go outside, which is like, uh, pacing around a little circle anxiously until the anxiety overwhelms me as well, and then I go and have to take her out. I don't know. I think that every dog is going to be different. You seem to have worked out a communication kind of thing with with your dog.

I think if you're taking her out eight times a day's one thing when you know probably have a door to the outside and you can open it up, and she does every time, every time, she gets water every time out right, you know, it's just like all these routines. I mean again, I think that like if you're taking her out a few times a day, like you know, she's probably fine if you want to take her out, like when she wants to go out, I think she'll

she'll let you know. Like like is your question, like how do you know when it's like a false at I just want to know, like what's a good system? You know. It's like that because I have heard the bell thing, but I did not hear the part where I've not heard that yet where they just keep not all dogs do that, but mine certainly did. That has

intrigued me. I guess that if you want to create a system where you were having your dog give you a clear communication that she wants to go outside, is you look for some behavior I guess that she kind of does naturally, maybe like maybe it's sitting by the door. Maybe it's like, you know, moving in a certain way, and then you have her associate that with you taking her out, so she like sits near the door and you're like Okay, let's go outside. She's gonna be like huh.

And then the second time you do that, she's gonna be like, that's interesting. It seems to mean he takes me outside. So if you kind of I don't know if the second time would do it. Well, it might take a few more, but yeah, if you if you keep associating sort of like you know, she has some gesture that is maybe unique, but that she it's not that she never does it, and then you start taking her out in response to that gesture, she'll start making it to get you to take it out. If it's

a bell, it could get annoying. I'll just keep and if she doesn't do like any gesture, you can train her to do something like like have her come up to the door, have her like like paw the door or something, and then like take her outside. So she sees that that's kind of your que to take her out. Um, but yeah, I mean I think that again, like usually

you can work out some communication system with your dog. Well, I'm going to spend the time, so I want to cap off the episode actually with a sort of update, sort of correction to a episode we did way back. Uh during the New Year's Uh, the episode called Happy New Fear. We talked to um the Nightcall Girls and we talked about a lot of Again, it was sort of similar to this episode, so that's why I'm bringing

it up now. It was like mythological creatures, cryptids and stuff, and I talked about the Boo Bach and the Baba Duke now the boo Box, which is a sort of boogeyman in check folklore, and Christina Stefanakova apologies if I did not get that pronunciation right. I trust me, I'm trying. Um she is check. She got in touch with me

to clarify some things about the Boo Bach. I think in the podcast we talked about how the Boo Bach looked like a scarecrow or skeleton and had a cart pulled by cats, which I found from uh Wikipedia and online source. But apparently this is not really the case. And it's also I think the boot Back is more of a like boogeyman figure like in folklore rather than a cryptid where they're like boo box truthers out there. Um, So I want to read what she wrote about the

boo Box. So she said, so the boo Box is used to scared children. They do not have any specific shape or look, and therefore children's imaginations have a free range to either give it a particular shape or just leave it vague and shapeless, shapeless, shapeless, which for me honestly up the spookiness level. They are often thought to live in dark and scary places. Dark rooms are sellers. If a child is frightened of someplace it can stay, it can say the reason is because there's a boo

box in there. Some adults also like to scare children, telling them a boo bach lives somewhere close to where the child is because some adults find scaring children funny. For example, I used to work as a guide for tours through the town vaulted cellars and underground tunnels under the small town where I used to live. When I went down to the tunnels with a group that had children in it, one of the adults usually told the children to be careful because there are boo box in there.

While the children got scared, the other adults laughed. I love that so much. I love the just trolling children, scaring them with There's nothing easier than scaring a child. Yeah, or or mystifying it. My dad was a great troll, like he didn't he didn't typically like scare me, but he would like he did a dictionary trick where he like got a picture of jack rabbit and an antelope and then he waved his hand over the book and then opened it up to the jackalope, and I was

convinced my dad was a book magician. He knew book magic. I remember when I worked at the pool in high school. I found that if he told kids that that you would called the cops on them, they would stop doing whatever. So you were Karen back and I didn't call the cops. Christina, she has some great information on other Czech mythical creatures. I'll probably cover that in another one of these folklore episodes, which I hope you guys like, because I'm you know,

I would say I'm a skeptic. I'm not necessarily thinking that there's a boo box or werewolves out there, But I do like the I like exploring sort of the legends and the science behind it and the real animals that I think are sometimes cooler than the actual legends. But you sound do you your pets don't let anything else happen Spain new to your werewolves? Would werewolves have

to get Spader? Yes, oh god, that's yes, man. I don't want to think Bob Barker gonna have to think Bob Barker going like if you're a werewolf, you know, Spain new to yourself? Carry says it now to so um a funny story. I want a car on the prices right today? Really? What? Yeah? Today? Are you kidding me? The day were recorded this specious occasion so aired, I didn't. I was going to say, you had that new car

glow about you? But yeah, I also it would not be here I was on the prices right that is wow? Well congratulations that everyone hut February one episode. Apparently if you come on the show, you you get that car. Car that that's what kind of car is it? It's a Honda hr v LX. I know so much about cars, and I'm very impressed. Okay, I didn't know what it was. That was a lie. Sometimes I couldn't. I couldn't. Perhaps you've been lying to me the whole time. That's why

this isn't a cover up. From where we'll come on, who even would just such a thing? Well, Nick, Thank you so much for joining me. This was really fun. This is good. I know I learned a lot. Great. I'm going to take this great into my life and you're just going to try to train your dog, and I will have given you all of the wrong advice. That's gonna it's gonna be bells all day, the bills, the bills. Um, do you have anything to plus? I do.

Also today started a new podcast at my Heart Radio ever heard of it called Deckheads with a super producers and I talk about every single episode of the Bravo reality show Below Deck. I don't know how much crossover there is between a very academic study of werewolves. Well, I don't know. Lucy's getting loose on a boat if you think about it as a metaphor or the masks we put off in society, but the wolves we hide

inside or below deck. Well, everyone's got to put down the book at some point and watch some trash TV and you can watch it along with us. We put it an episode out every day. It's a lot. It is delight. Also, I have another podcast called Get Rich Nick, where my co host and I also named trand new way to make money quickly every week. The Knicks are giving you advice, yes, and this week you'll never guess, we're giving you advice on how to make money at

the Prince's Vers So you're an expert. An expert although that is awesome. Please do check those shows out. I am especially excited about deck Heads. Anna's of course a wonderful causer here and I care for her very much. Yes. Uh, and you can find us on the internet at Creature Feature Pod on Instagram, at Creature feet Pod on Twitter. That is f E A T, not f E T. That is something very different. You can find me on

the internet as well at Katie Golden on Twitter. I am also at pro Bird Rights, where I fight for the rights of birds to be president someday hopefully. If you're enjoying the show, if you want to subscribe, rate review download that actually like helps me a whole lot gets up in those algorithms, tells those robots to love us and treat us good. So please do that. Thank you so much for listening. Unsubscribe and resubscribe. If every one of your subscribers unsubscribed and re subscribe, it would

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