Pick Your Poison

we could all agree on life. Like a gift crab. Yeah, I mean, just imagining its claw, like, removing its hat and salutation, that's all I need. Greetings, I am the Christmas crab. Let me click at you. Yeah, you really can snip gift wrapping really easily with a little claws. My god, can you imagine the ribbon work a Christmas crab, such like getting that that twirl that spiral spirals. Yeah yeah, I tried to do that, and my body refuses to

learn how to do it. So thankfully the Christmas crab. Yeah, I've been recording all of this. I might leave it. I don't mind a stupid bit. Why not, why not? Let's let's let's let's pretend um okay, and then in shore music Now great, great, Welcome to Creature feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, and today

on the show Pick Your Poison. There are lots of different things we know we should not put in our mouth, like cyanide, parasites, a styrofoam coffee cup you got out of the trash, But some animals have found a way to expand their culinary tastes or even benefit from things that would make a human restaurant shut down. In the Chef's Built to Prison is cover this in more as we answered the age old question why our scientists so

mean to larvae? Joining me today is writer, director, co host of One Upsmanship on this here I Heart Radio Network, and also friend of the pod, Adam Canzer. Friend. Yes, thank you for having me so much. Yeah, friend is my favorite of those types. Yeah, you know that's the one friend excited about that? Joining Thank you, That's all

I needed. Yeah, and I'm thrilled a back. I love that you picked this topic for me because you know, look behind the curtain, Katie asked me, is there any topic you'd like to explore, and I was like, how could I ever suggest the topic that be better than what you picked? This is so much better than anything I could have thought of. So I'm so excited about it.

I love it. Today we are actually talking about animals who do eat garbage, poison, and other things that should not be good for them, but somehow they manage, which I think is inspirational. H Yeah, I think that, especially around this holiday season, there's a lot of like shaming around, like oh, no, it's the holidays, I'm going to eat a lot of garbage and then feel bad about it. I feel like you should just commit if you're going

to eat something that's like no, I really shouldn't. It's like, no, you know what, I should eat this? This is good. Yeah, order that second Baja blast, put that in your body, just go all the way. It's the holidays. Yeah, yeah exactly. I mean, you know, unless you have some direct orders from your doctor not to it's like, um, if you it's like, oh, I'm eating pie, I should feel bad. It's like no, you once you've committed to eating the pie, um enjoy it. Yeah. The real doctor here is animals

and what they're doing. Yeah, let's listen to their prescription doctor. Animals say, eat your own babies. Is that most of what we're gonna be eating today? No? No, no, babies aren't. Are But what are you saying at them? What? What am I saying? You're right? Dare you? Absolutely? Dare you? I'm no longer a friend? Unfriended? Um? No, So we're actually first going to talk about cyanide cyanide um, it's something you don't generally want to consume. That's what I've heard. Yeah,

that's that's that's what I know about it so far. Yeah. It blocks your cells from being able to use oxygen molecules by binding two enzymes and stop cell metabolism, which is bad for the cell. It kills the cell. And then also you Yeah, sounds bad. Doesn't sound good? It's bad? But does it? Does it also taste amazing? Is that something I'm gonna learn? It tastes Apparently it has a slightly Wait? Is that arsenic? Is? Yeah? Is that arsenic that has the almond smell? Or is it siani? I

don't know. I've heard, I know that factoid. I just don't know which one is true, But I've heard that factor. Yeah, I'm gonna google it. Um is it our cynic almond smell? Um? I bet you cut this out, But if you don't, I love that you typed all that in. No, no cyanide, I know the FBI is now like ha ha I got her. Um so no, No, it is cyanide that has a slight sort of almondy smell. Uh. Not that almonds are bad for you, but cyanide definitely is. So. Um. Yeah,

there are actually antidotes to cyanide poisoning. They're not foolproof, so don't like, you know, try it as a prank. But the way that the antidotes work is by being able to bind to cyanide. And so by binding to cyanide, they prevent the cyanide from binding to the enzymes that facilitate the use of oxygen. So like our cells and stuff, when you think about cellular biology, it's all kind of like lock and key mechanisms are like little like puzzle

pieces fitting together. It's all these It's like a Rube Goldberg machine happening inside your body. Um. And so when you have something like cyanide, it like gunks up the process attaches to something. It should not be attaching to and then prevents it from using oxygen. And then so this antidote basically like grabs onto the cyanide and it's like, whoa there, buddy, Now you settle down, you're coming with me. So, uh,

it's a cyanide is bad generally for all animals. Um, So how could any animal ever eat cyanide and be okay? I guess the preliminary question is why would you want to eat cyanide? It's not a thing anyone should you know? Plan on? Right? It also is like why that can't be the only food there is? Whoever is doing this? Yeah, so that's another weird factor. So plants actually often use toxins to protect themselves from being eaten by unwanted pests.

A common toxin used by plants is hydrogen cyanide. For the record, hydrogen cyanide has also been used by humans and chemical warfare during World War One and World War Two. It's been involved in a lot of war crimes. It's very extremely nasty stuff. Um. But if you want to be able to have open access to like the world's most dangerous salad bar where you get like no competition from other animals, you would definitely want an immunity to that plant toxin. And yeah, of course I'm using the

term want like in a non literal sense. What's really happening is that any evolutionary like accident that allows an organism to eat a plant protected by a toxin will offer that animal huge advantage because now it has um this like relatively uncompetitive like non competitive area niche where it can like eat a plant that nothing else is trying to eat, and then now it's healthy and can pop out a bunch of offspring. So it's like it's like the hometown buffet in Santa Monica. Dude, if you're

gonna eat there, you're the only one eating there. It's Golden Corral. Um, Like what's like an off time? Like when when would the senior citizens not go to Golden Corral anytime after six pm? I guess so right? Like right, so, hey, what could possibly and evolve an immunity to cyanide? Well, adam of all the animals? What kind of family think would do this kind of thing? Okay, so god, what

would it be? I don't like I wanted to be like some kind of like angry re badger some kind of really intense badger like it burrows underground, it eats cyanide. It's the old Grandpa. It's the old Grandpa of rodents. That's what I want. Yeah, in my day, we went up, we walked up the hill both ways in the snow. We ate cyanide, and we were grateful for it, and we were grateful for it. Yeah. Um no, sadly not. I wish that were the case as well. But as is typical, the answer of what the hell is this

thing doing, it's arthur pods. Insects. Yeah, certain arthur pods, including mites and the larva of certain species of butterflies and moths, have developed an immunity to cyanide. Uh. In fact, some insects, such as burnet moths, used the ingested cyanide as a toxic defense against predators. So they've definitely, yeah, they've they've taken this thing. They've made lemonade sign, they've taken life. Game. Okay, life gave them cyanide, so they

made cyanide aid. Yep. Yeah, that's it's like it's like they dressed themselves entirely grenades, just like give it your best shot, broad Yeah. And the eather grenades, but they can don't. Also another suggestion, helpful tip, don't do that either. Yeah, that's if they haven't done it on Jackass, definitely don't do it. Like, if they've done it on Jackass, don't

do it then either. But if they haven't done it, Yeah, that's like the It's kind of like in a way, Jackass teaches you safety, right because you just don't do anyway anything they do or what they don't do. Yeah, don't just stay away from Jackass. Stay away from it. So how can they tolerate cyanide? Well, they have an enzyme that converts deadly hydrogen cyanide into its non deadly form, beta cyano alanine. I'm so glad you do this part

of the podcast. If I had to read one of those if I had to read one of those names immediately, I'd be shown the but I'd be shown the podcast door and kicked out right there, exposed as someone who doesn't know what happens when you convert hydrogen cyanide into its non lethal form. That's right. They take my monocle away immediately past confiscated. That's right. I think I felt. I felt a little Sheldon E. When I said that

just now, and it felt not great. I liked it, but but I liked it in a laughing at it way, lapping at me. Yeah, well yeah, okay this time, that's fine, that's okay. I'm cool with that. See I'm cool with that. Um yeah. So interestingly, the gene that codes for this cyanide detoxifying enzyme may not have originated in animals, so it appears to have originated in bacteria. Well what the heck is going on here? Well, it's just gonna be like eating inception. Is this going to be like them?

Like the not the muss The butterflies eat the bacteria which eats the cyanide, and like it keeps them all safe. That sounds that sounds cool, But it's even weirder it is that they actually have this DNA in their genetic code. So like, this is a case of horizontal evolution. So vertical evolution is what is what we're all used to. It's you know, like your parents pops you out, gives

you some DNA and you know makes sense. Horizontal evolution is when an organism has genes introduced it from something like a virus or a bacterium um but it doesn't come from the parent. It comes from another organism. So like bacteria often have horizontal evolution shin, but animals this

is actually quite rare. For animals. We don't have a lot of horizontal evolution because it requires some weird circumstances like a virus, a viruses DNA or a bacteria's DNA somehow getting introduced to a cell and then somehow that's cell incorporating that into its own DNA. That does sounds strange and like vampiric or something. It does, doesn't it. It's it's a little, it's a little it's a little wacky and strange. Um. But yeah, so the speculation based

on well, it's not quite speculation. There's there's some pretty good science behind it where they have tracked back like the origin of this uh this genetic code that allows them to produce this enzyme two bacteria. Now they don't know exactly how this horizontal like when and how like um, under what circumstances this happened, but it's kind of interesting that, Yeah, these arthropods have stolen this DNA from bacteria to be able to um you know, basically eat cyanide and not die.

It sounds a little like like Fountain of Youthy or something like they have like their own uncharted heist going on here or something where the answer the arthropods got together, like we've got to get this power. It's only stored in this one bacteria. You go and they assemble a team and there's a montage steal the bacteria. It's gonna

be oceans is going to cover this ground. Yes, that's right, it's just going to the oceans are going to become increasingly abstract, where at some point we're just going to have sort of like lines stealing like the third dimension. Yeah, that's right. Yes, that's exactly what it's going to be. You're just basically watching like a math to storial, but it's got that really cool score to it. And it turns out that one of them was a line all

along or whatever. There's always a twist, so right, it's like Ocean's fifty is going to be you in like a sensory deprivation tank with flashes of light and you imagine the movie and then you pay for that. That's how it works. Yeah, that sounds like the ultimate heist, right, it really does. You've been hiding. That's what they'll call it. Ocean brainist. It's pretty good. Well, actually, when we come right back, we are going to talk about a literal

brain highst Yes, really, how did you do this? Don't? It's magic? It's magic, man. I brain heisted you. You've been brain heisted. Seriously. I feel like I ate something that tricked me. All right, and we're back, and as promised, we're gonna talk about brain heist. Adam, have you ever heard about T gandhi I or toxoplasmosis. I can't say that one crossed my desk at any point that I recall.

You get the memo, probably, but it was thrown out by my assistant who we're seeking to replace a CCED B bcced cp C. Yeah, it got it, got it got lost in the junk folder. Well. T GANDHIA or toxoplasmosis is that thing where a rat gets infected with this microscopic protozolan, and when that rat is infected, it causes these brain lesions and alters hormone production, making them fearless and possibly even attracted to cats. Because yeah, so this suits the T gandhi I. Uh, Because the t GANDHIAI.

This little little protozoan reproduces only in the intestines of cat species can be house cats or wildcats, and so it will get Okay, this is a weird thing that a lot of parasites end up doing, where like they will disperse themselves by being eaten by one thing or accidentally picked up by one thing, and then that thing gets eaten by another thing, and now they're in the place where like, hey, this is the singles bar where

we wanted to meet up and reproduce eight. It's the wrong bar, so they met the wrong Is that is that the it's actually it's like, so the rat is like the uber that they take to get to the singles bar, which is the cat and testines. But when the uber parks, it's parking inside the club because it just got eaten by the cat. Yeah, I for clarity, rat accidentally in just t gandhia I, T GANDHIAI does a brain heist takes over rat. Brain makes a rat go like, oh kitty cute, I love it goes up

to the cat rackets eaten by the cat. Cat is like great, this is a weirdo, but I'll eat it cat now infest infected with t gandhia I. T gandhia I, you know, maids and reproduces inside the cat and test and cat poops. Nati gandhia I is out there again, ready to infect another rat. How do we know that? I mean, I know there's an actual answer, and this is half bit. How do we know everything that likes cats doesn't have this virus? Right like? Right, like that

is a sorcery, that is biological sorcery. I mean, that's like there have been sort of jokes about that where it's like, oh, maybe humans who are infected with t gandhia I like like cats. Um, but the there is a truth to that, which is kind of weird. Uh. There have been no conclusive studies that I've seen about humans liking cats because they're infected with ti gandhia I. Think we like cats just because they're adorable little murderers, and we love like true crime, and we love to

pet soft things. So true crime plus like a soft thing is a cat. That's right, that's the math, that's the math. So uh yeah, So so ti gania We have talked about t GANDHIAI on the show before, but I got some cool updates aunti gandhia um. Uh. So, first of all, it's not just rats that Ti gandhia i can have an effect on In terms of behavior. Um chimpanzee is infected with Ti gandhia I have been observed to be attracted to leopard urine um, meaning they're like,

this smells great. I like leopards sounds cool. And then leopards, uh by the way, just small detail, they love to eat chimpanzees. So not a great idea for a chimpanzee to like be attracted to the smell of a leopard. But again, the Ti ghandi it gets in the chimpanzee's brain, probably like the ideas that they cause some like cysts or brain lesions that alters the hormone production and then does a weird thing where the chimpanzee goes from like being afraid of the cappy to like being kind of

into it, like being like, hey, this seems cool. This is terrifying. Yes, this is this is an abjectly terrifying thing, right, yeah, Just imagining the Chimpanzee council trying to diagnose thiss, like why do we keep having you know, why did Todd go over there and fall in love with the jaguar or whatever? Doctor animals, what's the answer, Well, did you try eating cyanide or your own babies? Then I'm out of ideas. Not very helpful, doctor animals, But boy does

he get the job done. Yeah. And also, hyena cubs who have been infected with t gandhi I may lose their fear of lions and may be more likely to stroll up to a line. So observational studies have found that hyena cubs that are infected with Ti gandhia I approach approach lines more more often. This is incredible, Like it's so weird that that would work, right, It's bizarre where it's like yeah, like this protozoan is like well I need to be Like it's so choosy too and

like spoiled. It's like I need to be in a cat and testine and nothing else will do. And then it makes sure that this poor animal it's infected is like suddenly like okay, I will wander up to this cat. Oh wow, hello, kitty, you're very large. I guess you're going to eat me. Oh well, like so this is obviously a dumb question, But are they sure that those that this this is a protozoa, that this protozoan wouldn't put in any creature, wouldn't make it attracted to its

corresponding cat, Gennie. I just don't. Yeah, it's it's weird because it's not necessarily I don't think it's not that they have disproved that they're not sure that doesn't happen. I just don't think they've found evidence that every animal is attracted to cats after being after being infected with t GANDHIA. So they wouldn't test that, Like, they wouldn't take it and injected into a hip and see, let's see if it likes leopards. Now, No, they definitely wouldn't

do that. That'd be that'd be monstrous. Who would suggest it, right exactly? Who? Who? Indeed? Um? I mean later in the show we are going to talk about researchers doing messed up things, but they anyways, I was I was

waiting for that. Yeah, it'll it'll be fun. I have immense respect for biology researchers, and yet again, once again, I would like to remind people that biology researchers can't it's like it's so good that they like biology and not murder because like the right, like the fiendish brains of the they're doing stuff for good mostly. Um so anyways, Uh, what a terrifying description of your job. It's mostly good

what they're doing, thank god the times. Most of the times, I think ethnically, okay, yeah, that would be that would be a tough job to navigate emotionally, I think, you know, it's got to be a lot of for the greater good. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh yeah, Like I want when I was in college, I like took care of some um contop

tamarins that were involved in behavioral studies. And even though these were noninvasive studies, meaning they weren't like uh there was no surgery, the animals weren't killed or physically harmed any anyways, it was still like uncomfortable because it's like, as much as I enjoyed taking care of them, it's

like they should be in the wild. This feels wrong, and like I'm not gonna like name any names, but like I do feel like in that specific instance, I don't think the research really justified having these captive animals in my you know, take it as it's worth opinion,

So uh yeah, but a lot compared to mine. You don't you don't even brain heist me, so um so speaking brainhist uh More, research has come out about tea gandhia and its effects on other animals, and surprisingly it may not always lead to death by kitty kat and in fact can lead to positive results seemingly, which is very interesting. So wolves who are infected with T gandhia I may get a confidence boost that enables them to start their own packs and venture out into the world.

I was gonna say this, the the effect of this brain heist really does feel similar to the effect of one too many beers, where you think maybe I could maybe I could hit on that person on the other side of the bar, right, only usually that person is a cat and I'm a rat. In this metaphor, for me, alcohol enables me to do worse and worse bits and thinking they're good and committing the bits that I really

shouldn't be. Like. I remember once at college, my my darkest moment was when I had a few many two, few many two beers, like right now, you know, a few too many beers, and I was like sitting on some girls sweater and she's like, oh, excuse me, you're sitting on my sweater. I'm like, keep no warm for it, and she gave me a look of utter disgust. It's like, well, you know, you're like no. The math adds up to that was funny, lady. Yeah, And I was right and

she was wrong. Probably was warm and it was winter, so what the hell? Yeah, I can remember. I can remember a distinct moment when one too many beers made me stop remembering that waitresses are never flirting with you. I mean, there's like one beer where I was like, maybe she really is flirting. Yeah, like hey, sugar, and it's like I'm your sugar. I'm your sugar. It's real. And then my friend my friends thought that was hilarious that like I started like, maybe I think she's really

He thought that was very funny. She called men, I think she's into me. That's right, that's I got brain heisted. She asked me how my meal is. She cares about me. She's got to be into me. Now. Was this waitress a giant jaguar or could have been? Could have been she? Because she was merciful that day. She waved me away as soon as I was like one quick personal question,

no thanks, it was like relieve out. Well, so, so wolves do kind of get the the one too many beer like confidence boost from the US t GANDHIA apparently. So before we proceed, I think it's important to uh talk a little bit about wolf packs. So a lot of the info on wolf pack behavior is outdated because like that stuff about like alpha dominance um was based on research done on captive wolves. Uh. And captive wolves, like a lot of captive animals, their behavior is very

different from wild wolves. Uh. Captive wolves, like they may be housed with a bunch of unrelated wolves. Usually they have less space, and so this tends to lead to conflicts. So like smaller spaces mean there's going to be more aggression because often in the wild, if you have some kind of conflict, the favored way to avoid that is to give each other space. Uh. Um. So like uh you know, and so like the researchers may have accurately observed these captive wolves, but it in no way kind

of reflected the behavior of wild wolves. So wild wolf packs are more like a family. Um so uh instead of this like thing of like alpha's dominate beta's as much as pick up artists would like this to be true. Uh, A pack structure for wolves is like there's parents and then a bunch of kids, and the parents kind of laid down the law for the kids. Um. So you have an alpha breeding pair, which is like typically the

mother and the father of the rest of the pack. Uh. Sometimes there are unrelated wolves who will like join the pack if they are accepted. So it's basically like a big Thanksgiving with a bunch of siblings and then maybe some like family friends that tag along. Um, and then like the mother and father wolf are sort of enforcing rules about like who gets to eat first, and like hey, sit down, mind your table manners, that kind of thing.

Don't bring up this topic. It pisses off your uncle everything. Yeah, yeah, don't remind him of that time he got his pasta and a wolf trap. You know he's aware. Yeah, he likes to talk about it. Yeah, so gone. So yeah, overall these are like kind of family dynamics. Um. There there is something of there is like a hierarchical structure, but it's much less this thing of like well the alf the wolves like dominate the lessers and like you know, bully them into submission, and more like you know, mom

and dad sort of get mad at you. So like that analogy suggests there's something a little more nurturing about that environment. Is that? Am I wrong in thinking that that's that's what you want? Okay? Great, No, that you're not wrong. I mean, it's obviously more complicated than like say or it's a it's different from say like family relations with humans, like typically we don't bite our offspring,

um typically when we're mad at them. But you know, it's you know, like I would say, so the offspring gain an advantage by being in this group, even if like some of the rules seem kind of like unfair, like the alpha you know sometimes like the alphas will get the best choice of the meat or something. But like they also are teaching their offspring how to hunt. They are working together to bring down larger prey than

any of them could bring down individuals. So you know, it is and so it is more of a like cooperative dynamic than just this sort of bully kind of ordering every Yeah, yeah, like I've enthralled you right exactly, Gale. So so that that's a good background to know because we're going to talk about wolves like being more confident and being able to go off and start their own pack. You know, it's more like a wolf going off starting its own family. It's not so much the classic view

of wolves. Uh, how we learned from captive wolves, which doesn't really represent them. I'm taking my mental image out of the frat house and into the suburbs. I totally get it. In some ways, the suburbs are far more vicious than the frat house. So uh, no doubt. So the research there is this research study that looked at blood samples from wolves and yellowstone, and they found that wolves infected with t GANDHII were far more likely to disperse uh far from their home range and more likely

to become leaders of their own packs. So what can we like infer from this, right? Because it's tricky, like when you find an effect or correlation, like it's really difficult to kind of establish causality, like is the uh is the parasite causing this boosting confidence? Are more confident animals more likely to be infected with this parasite? So? Um? I looked into the study and uh, it seems like they did do a pretty good job in trying to

adjust for a lot of factors, so like UH. In the study parasitic infection increases risk taking in a social intermediate host carnivore published in Nature, UH, the authors try to control for a multiple number of factors, so like they would see how t GANDHAI infections are influenced by sex, age, proximity to cougar populations, and they controlled for these factors

in their analysis. They also like monitored wolves over a number of months to try to establish causality of infection on behavior, so like they would see, like at what point they're like infected, and then in the following months, how likely they were to like disperse or join their own uh start their own packs. So it's like they it's like they went to like a Ted talk for entrepreneurship or something, so the viruses like, you can do it. They're like, you know what, I'm gonna start my own pack.

You know, I've always been saying. You know what's funny is there is some research on humans um that seem to suggest that maybe t gandhi I produces more entrepreneurs Uh. I'm fantastic. I am a little okay, so full disclosure, I'm a little skeptical of this. I think that it's a really interesting idea and I think we should do more research on it. But I think it's a study

that we need to do more follow up on. So like, basically, students who were infected with our tested positive for having like a team GANDHIAI were one and a half times more likely to major in business. So again I think remember like the problems that I talked about with the Wolf study that they seem to uh control for it's a lot It's very hard to do when you're doing an observational study where you have a lot of different kind of human behaviors. So like, um, the study authors

admit this is just correlational. They weren't able to establish causality because like, for instance, maybe students who are more bold or you know in some kind of like social class to uh interact more with cats, or maybe like eat more like undercooked meat or something like they eat more meat in general, so they are more likely to get infected with te GANDHIA because they eat steak a lot or something. Uh, And maybe they're also more likely

to be business school students. Uh. And so you know, it's like it could be of behavior A will ask a different behavior that both makes them more likely to contract the virus because like hey, maybe they hang out with cats more or eat more meat or whatever, um, but also that makes them more likely to be business school students. So I mean, I just want to know how many of them have attended a masterclass, you know. I mean, like there's just certain ways that I'd like

this test to go. How many of them are, like ordering specialty drinks at Starbucks? I want I want to long term study on te gandhia I on whether people invest in crypto. Oh please could be please, thank you? That's all I want. Do they were they in early on n f T s test those people exactly right? And so like whether or not you think these are confident in bold behaviors or maybe stupid behaviors, because like hey, like when the wolf starts its own pack, We're like, hey,

that's a confident wolf. But when a rat gets eaten by a cat, were like, that's a stupid rat. That's a dumb rat. And when a when a your friend forwards you an email about ethereum, that's a that's been a brain high strain. I was speaking with did you see my blank Club of Coffee c C C C C C. I was gently I was gently bringing it up with a wink. And you did not acknowledge that win. Creature, creature cash, creature cash, creature use how it works. And

it's got a little smiling protozoa. Yeah, as it's icon. Yeah, and it's like it's like this, you infect two, five, ten of your friends with creature cache and then creature case and it goes upstream. You got your downstreams, you got your stream. It floats upstream, loads upstream. We all win, except for you, but mostly me. It's swimming up river into fortune. Yeah. I don't know what kind of being we're creating. Investing Creek, give me five dollars for your

own slice of creature. I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna go bankrupt and then get my own. Like, what is it? Where where is that guy? Felony? I believe it's called Peakman Fried. No, No, he's he's like in where is it? He's in some kind of like resort now hiding out right. Yes, he's he's in a minimum security beach prison, a minimum security resort he's got a couple of years of vacation to do. Let's test Let's test Baker Big Bakerman Fried Bank Bankman Fried.

Let's test him for Tea Gandhi. I. He might have it. He could get the tea GANDHIAI defense. I had to differ of these people. I was inspected. I got the bad germs. That's why I was so excited about And I promised, you creepy scientists, and we're going to get into it now. Thank you. That's all I've been asking for. I know, he's like, please tell me about science atrocities, and I deliver. Name the trash scientists I'd like to hear about. It's not delivery, it's dig golden, it's um.

So yeah, let's talk about eating garbage. Uh, and of course I'm not talking about junk food, which is decidedly not garbage. Have you tasted it? It's good, That's all I've tasted. I thought this podcast was a gentle rebuke. No, no, you know what, like, yeah, it's unhealthy, but I feel like once you've committed to a bag of chips, you got to enjoy it, you know what. Yes, I'm doing full hallopenio Supreme Cheetos right after this, just a full bag of those the Hallopenia ones, you know, the green

ones we called Hallopenia Supreme. No, I think that title. I forgot what they're called Halloween. I want to say blast, but I know that's not right. You gave it that. Yeah, well it deserves to be called that Halloween is Hollopeni Supreme. That's right. Give that thing a top hatne monocle. Right, but that's the peanutsman. Well, I feel like he's the most important of the snack creatures. Mr Cheeto is the

cheetah right, Chester Chester Chter. He's got sunglasses, and I guess the implication is he's orange, just like the Cheetos, because I think that's right. It's it's like his dust. He's like literally dusted all of those chips, like those little puffs special Cheetah dust. His dandruff, they like his dandruff is the powder on the Cheetos. Do you ever notice how much more you let cats after eat Cheetahs. It's yeah, it's infected with cheese, gandhya. It ain't easy

being cheesy, that's right. It's a hard life for him anyways. Uh, that aside I'm talking about actual trash can garbage, like indigestible garbage. Um, like one of the least appetizing things. Well, I guess there's a lot of unappetizing things I can creatively think of that come out of a garbage can, but um, like a styrofoam cup. I don't even like using styrofoam as cutlery or cuppery. I hate the feel of styrofoam, like that squeaking sound. Yeah, and do you

feel bad now? Oh yeah. It's like, man, this is this is gonna last like two thousand years. Yeah. Yeah, it's like we're converting all of the planet into pure styrofoam. M that's all that will be left. But on a more personal note is that I just don't like the mouth feel. I don't like the squeakiness of it, Like the two styrofoam things squeaking against each other. Uh it hurts um my soul. I don't know. It's like I literally have this like reaction, this shuddering reaction to it.

Is that that's certainly not me, right, Like, no, that's not you, it's it's it's not it's a little bit squishier and grosser than like two balloons rubbing against each other, which is which is also like a mortifying squeak. You know, I don't love that either, but yes, like the tooth field to when I like when like styrofoam, Like you have a styrofoam cup and it like gently scrapes against your top teeth, I kind of want to die. Well that's because it like scrapes right off, you know what

I mean. Like like styrofoam is like like it feels like it's made of like the crumbliest material there is. Yeah, like it feels like it's barely holding together as a solid. Yeah, I I hate everything about styrofoam. I'm gonna be honest, um, but like for every classy lady like me who refuses to eat styrofoam is a worm with no dignity, So talk about amazingly. I wrote that line for myself ahead of time. Uh, A shameless worm who just is like

I'll eat that styrofoam bracket. Right. Yeah, here's here's me, classy lady, and here's worm who eats styrofoam. Down here. Put it in my put it in my equivalent of mouth. It's just a mouth equivalent of a mouth is just mouth. Um. Worms have mouth, so warms have mouths. Of course they did not. That sounded insane that I did not know they eat at them with no I thought they honestly, I thought they absorbed it with their slime powers. I really did, you know. That's not like the worst idea.

There are warm like things that do absorb nutrients through their skin, like the hagfish, although they also have a mouth. But it's not so you know, it's not not a not a bad idea, but they do have mouth. Um. Let's chat about the larvae of the darkling beetle. So the darkling beetles are a family of beetles found all over the world in deserts and forests, and they love to eat decaying plant matter, including decaying wood. That's just wood,

that's just that's wood. That's a little tangy wood. That's fun. Yet in a party forest, each invest in early then they retired cane um. So uh, we will focus on Zoophobus mario, which is the beetle whose larval stage is uh called a fun name. Super worms superworms technically not

like worms. Um, they're larva. I mean like sometimes we like call larva worms by larva larva because they're like the larval stage of an insect or an arthropod on in this case this beetle and um so they're not technically worms, but you know they get a cool nickname though, super worms. Great. I love it. Oh yeah, absolutely sounds like he's gonna like it's like fly around the city solving and defeating crime, and the criminal is gonna be like, oh it just hit my face? Is this a little noodle? No,

super warm? That's super warm, super warm, wrestling your crime from you with its apparently with its mouth. It also sounds like the exact name of a SKA band I may or may not have started in high school. Really yeah, why not literally or just what it might or in this bit right? Yes, uh it's it's the kind of name SKA bands were taking in the late nineties. I'm sorry to like put your bit on trial of like is that the truth? At him? Are you telling lies to me? Where was this? Where was this bit five

seconds earlier when it was uttered without consequence? Doesn't have an alibi? So it doesn't. Uh so the Phoebus memorial um as adults are matt black beetles that can grow over two inches or fifty seven millimeters long. You know, they're there's just kind of normal looking beetles. Um. The super warm larva, the baby version of the beetles, are light brown in color, uh, and grow to be around one and a half inches to two inches or fifty

to sixty millimeters long. So you know, you know they're not like huge, but they're I guess they're called superworms because they look like large, like extra large meal worms. Um, they're actually used. Yeah, they're actually used to feed pet insectivores like birds, reptiles and fish. So like pet owners will buy these and feed them to their animals. Well, and it sounds like the kind of thing is that

that's got to be better than normal words for my pet. Yeah, ford of exactly, you know, like like dirt enriched worms those Yeah, part of a balanced beak fest, balanced parrot meal. Yeah.

I do feel like, uh, superworms is a little bit of a treacherous name because what I want is for the worm to be gigantic and for the beetle that comes out of it to be normaliz, Like if we never see that in nature, Actually we do not worms, but we have the paradoxical frog, where the the tadpole is kind of larger or longer than the frog, and it's just that this tail sort of gets absorbed by the frog, says, it's metamorphosizing from a tadpole into a frog,

and so it's just kind of using up that tail energy during its metamorphosis. Um. And so it looks it's seems like the frog is like smaller, like somehow there has been a loss of matter here. But it's just it's but it's not a big change, right, Like it's a it's the smallest change. It's a. Yeah, it's not like a it's not a ridiculous change, because that's what I want. I want the worm to be like a foot long, and I want the frog to be or

the beetle to be normal sized. Like it's like the worm was a high school quarterback, like like a Benjamin Button situation, except that Benjamin Button because like in the movie, it's like he comes out small. Um here's okay, Now here's what is confusing about Benjamin Button. I've always had this problem with it. The idea, the conceit of the movie is that Benjamin Button is born old and gets young. Okay, got it. But when he's born old, he's small, he's little.

He's like an old man born because he's got to come out somehow, and so he's got to be small. Okay. As the movie progresses, he gets younger and younger and so turns back into baby. But he's small again. So here's my problem, giant giant baby, because he starts out small and ends up small again. It doesn't make any sense. It's like old Tommy Melville, Hermie Hermie Melville is trying to hide the absolute horror of this concept, like it's

so horrifying. Gonsip a little less cute if Kate Blanchet is walking along with her former lover who's now a baby, um, which I always thought was weird. That's like um, but now like instead it's just walking along with giant baby. Is like you used to be my lover, Now you're a giant baby. That's so much funnier, though it's like legally so funny, like like a baby the size of a normal person, like a tall baby, you know, like it's has to push this bassinet that's like the size

of a limousine. You know. It's honestly, that's that's a good movie. Come on, baby, Brad Pitt, let's uh you know, where's where's that reboot? Where's that reboot? Poorly conceived metaphor for dementia. Um. Anyways, we were talking about worms, and in fact not worms but larva. So super worms are incredibly super and not just because um they are food for birds and that they are slightly larger than meal worms. They have another superpower. So they can eat styrofoam, which

is benanes. Why why why can't they eat it? H Well, I'll answer that question for you, Adam. First of all, what styrofoam. Styrofoam or polystyrene is a synthetic polymer. It's not biodegradable, meaning that if left outside, bacteria and microorganisms will not break it down. So it's not great for the environment because it just we we take energy to make it and then now it's it's not being reclaimed by the earth and it sits there landfills right exactly.

It ages more than like Roman colosseums, like you know what I mean. It's like, you know, the ruins of our society are all going to be like dirofied. Yeah. So, um, but somehow superworms can eat styrofoam. So um full disclosure, styrofoam is not the most nutritious or delicious food for these superworms, but they can do it, so they'll take it. They'll take it in a pinch. It's like mac and

cheese for them, exactly. Yea craft. We're talking about craft, not Annie's, right, because Annie's is, you know, Andie's is a delicacy. Craft. Mac and cheese is the ultimate fill in the blank food. I used to, at the lowest point in my life, eat it when it was refrigerated and and became sort of like a cake. Um yeah, because you'd like refrigerate it and then like take it out of the little pot and it just sort of come out as as as a little loaf, and I can, can I take a nice slice out of cold mac

and cheese? I fixed myself, don't worry. That's a real natier for sure. That's that's that's the moment in the screenplay where you get your crew together and fight back. Finally in a screenplay. Inexplicably be in my underpants while doing this, but generally I was clothed, thank god, thank god. So uh yeah, um onto the scientists being mean to

larva um. So in a twisted University of Queensland study, super worms were divided into three groups, those who were fed brand flakes uh, those who were served a heaping pile of nothing, and then those who were fed styrofoam so uh. In a in a study that could only be done because we apparently have no sympathy for larva um, they compared the outcomes of these three groups of superworms. So the super worms who got to eat brand flakes were living large, they having a great life. Of course,

have a great life. Yeah, they're fat, they were happy, and they pupated, meaning they metamorphosized from the larva to an adult stage over ninety percent of the time. So they're doing great. Yeah. The superworms who got nothing and then we're told to like it um didn't do so good. They didn't really gain weight. They only pupated ten percent

at the time, So, you know, not a good situation. Surprising, right, I mean presumably I think that like for a lot there there was like they had to pause the study because too many of them were resorting to cannibalism, so like they had to isolate, they had to isolate the super worms, so they couldn't literally eat each other do a Dawner party situation of super worms, it turns into the walking dead in there, you know what I mean, Like it's just an endless tale of sorrow reality great um.

And then there's just like one worm that's always going like coral co it's wearing a hat but always yeah uh. And then these super worms who were fed styrofoam actually slowly gained weight, you know, not as not as well as the brand eaters, but they were able to pupate sixties seven person at the time. So this sames sandicate

that styrofoam is way better than nothing. What a sort in same test, I put literally anything there and proven that I feel, like you know what I mean, Like I mean something that's not poisoned, okay, but like they could have put any food stuff there that but it's proven that it's better than zero food. Well no, I mean it actually makes sense because if styrofoam could not be digested as we assume like it probably shouldn't be,

then it should be zero. It should be the same, It should be the same as the ones that get nothing, because like if you are given like like here, eat some sand, you're not going to do well. It's not going to be better than nothing. Will Yeah. Um, I'm just thinking of like like tiny atoms bursting out of like one little foot becomes another me. Yeah, exactly, Well

that's I mean, that's budding. You're talking about reproducing by butting like a coral, like coral co uh so, like there'd be a little chrysalis around, you know, flag or whatever. And then it's Adam's face on a butterfly's body improvement. I think everybody gets improved by that, right for everybody. Human face on a butterfly's body is Um, I'm picturing it and I'm not loving it, I say so. Uh yeah.

So this indicates the fact that they not only gained weight, but they were able to pupate, so they had enough energy and nutrition to pupate a shockingly you know, passing grade of sixty seven. Um. Yeah, means that they were able to get a shocking amount of nutrition from the styrofoam. So researchers suspect that there is some kind of symbiotic relationship between the super worms and a gut bacteria, and that's somehow together the larva and the gut bacteria managed

to digest this typically inedible material. So uh, you know, because like if you put star from out on the ground, it doesn't break down like you know, generally speaking like by from bacteria, even if you like put it in water, I don't think it really breaks down. But somehow there's something going on with this superworm that there's potentially some symbiotic relationship where it's able to digest this. It's sort

of like with termites. Um termites will eat wood and be able to derive nutrients from that thanks to symbiotic um bacteria that they have in their guts. And if you've wondered like okay, well wait, if bacteria can eat wood, uh, then why isn't my house just a rotting you know,

pile of mush? Well, like what will break down? Like say you if you have like a chair and you've ever had it like sit out it's unfinished and it's like, uh sits out in the rain and it gets it rots it exactly because the water is a good environment for the bacteria to thrive and like a dry and vironment um the the wood is you know, it's like the bacteria has kind of nowhere to survive, and so the termite since the bacteria it's like happy and the

and the termites gut can survive in there um. And then when the termite breaks down the wood and eats it, the bacteria that can then process the wood and actually turn it into usable nutrients for the bacteria or for the termite. So the thought, so the thought is maybe somehow the super worm and this bacteria are able to work together in a way that it can digest the styrofoam. Obviously, it did not evolve to digest styrofoam, because styrofoam came

way after the portion of this thing. It's just incidental because it breaks down plant material, rotting wood, so it must have some pretty, you know, great gut bacteria that helps it break down and incidentally seems to also help it break down styrofoam. So it feels it feels like we're like ten years from some scientists just pouring it on a landfill, just taking a mountain of super worms and pouring it on a lamp. I mean, this is what like this is the application they're thinking that maybe

we can use this to help break down styrofoam. I mean, like obviously, like the better thing is that we don't create the problem in the first place, um and find better materials to make than styrofoam. But yeah, like having having uh animals that can break down like plastics and styrofoam would be good for our already existing heaping piles

of trash that we have created. But then you then you got the problem of like the Beatles have too much leverage, what I mean, And then and then we have another We got a war on our hands and treaties. We gotta make Beetle treatise in favor of the Beatles union. Honestly, of course, who wouldn't be you know, you know I hadn't asked for this exactly. I mean like, I kind of also love the idea of of these little super worms going on strike and having tiny signs that too,

I like that too. I like I like them having to sort out conflicts with their beetle overlords, right exactly. Wait, wait, no, the worms are the beetles babies. We would be the overlords because we'd be like literally enslaving their babies to make them eat our styrofoam. I feel like I can't be the first to break the idea of generational oppression to you. I feel like you're like, yes, humans take our babies and make them work in the styrofoam mind and pay and pay us and you know, pay us

and whatever beetles want. Bring back the Larva labor laws. Bring them back. That's right, they were, because I don't think they exist. I'm pretty sure that wasn't pork barreled onto somebody's you know, somebody's bill a few years ago. So that here m wiggles Senator Jim bugs past the

bill submitted to build of Congress today. Can you imagine about larval treatment And everyone's like, get the hell And it's just like that guy from Men in Black, he's like, oh my god, for Nebraska, give us sugar, our vote, please, more water will sugar. I love it. I love super Worms. I loved it. But I feel like, you know, it's like also, just like give him brand once in a while, let him meet something nice. Yeah, I mean I know that people are tossing out extra boxes of Raisin brand

once in a while. I know that's happens. Honestly. Yeah, I agree. I'm not a big scoops. It's okay, okay with Raisins, milk, milk and Raisins don't work for me, raisins. It's okay, Yeah, it's okay. I don't settle, doesn't settle for Syria, and I respect that. That's why you founded, because you're looking for a better currency. I remember you. Your down flows and your up flows will thank you when you invest in creature case. Just get five of your friends to invest in creature cash. In the value

of creature cash will skyrocket. Well, Quentin tuple, Well, yeah, that's real math. That's real math, real math. Yeah, the graphic real math slides in with the next just create a power point where I'm just like, it's just a line that shoots right up and like this is where it's going, that's going up, followed by just a couple of slides with bugs on them. Yeah. I like this presentation sold me instantly. And then I just like demonstrate.

I'm like like with some super worms eating a styrofoam cup and they're so odd that they invest in creature. This is the kind of this is the kind of entrepreneurship creature cash funds. And then it's like worms at foam cup that says profits on it eating them These larva are you? Yeah, you're the larva yeah, I didn't that ted Ax talk. Yeah, I'd give that for money. Absolutely. Well, before we go, we gotta play a little game. The game is called Guess Who Squawk and the Mry Animal

Sound Game. Every week I introduced some Mr Animal Sound and you the listener, Hey, you the gift, try to guess who's squawking. The rules is it's any animal? Um, and it's yeah. It can be any animal. It can be more well known animals. It could be some obscure animal you've never heard of. Um. It's not necessarily a fair game. Um, but you know it's educational, so shut up. All right. So last week Mr Animals Sound, the hint was not quite a gobbler. So again the hint not

quite a gobbler, and here is the sound. Mm hmmm mm hmmm. So Adam, did you hear that little boo? Yeah, it was like it was like like a cute fish, like flirting with a waiter. It's that waitress who was like, you're like, I know she's into it. Yeah, it's exactly. She was also a fish. You're right, um, not quite a gobbler? Is you're not quite a gobbler? Okay? Alright, so I guess that leads me with only one logical guess, and that is that this is a turkey vulture that

is so close and I love it. I love it. It's not quite true. I got some kisses from listeners to for turkey vultures and you guys are picking up what I'm putting down. But it's another it's another one. And this is funny because this is the Australian brush turkey. OK so it's another bird that's called a turkey who's not a turkey. Uh, congratulations to Amanda m who is the only one who gets correctly. Uh. Usually I have I do it where it's like the first three, but

like this time, this one was a real real head scratcher. Um, so what does she get? What does she get? It? Some creature of shares. Right now, it's worth all the zero point zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero one dollars, But in the future, who knows it'll be worth one dollar? It will be so, yes, the Australian brush turkey is found in can you guess Australia? That's right? What if I's like no, it would be like,

oh god, this is a dangerous game. Yeah, so it's found in eastern Australia and it's not related at all to American turkeys, does it? Does it look like a turkey? Kind of? Um? So it has black feathers, a bald red head and neck, and a yellow wattle that kind of looks like a fleshy, wrinkly, mildly scrotal necklace. Um. The the males will build amount of leaves and dirt, which he hopes females will come to use to lay

her eggs after she made with him. So um, he can mate with multiple females at once and they all leave their eggs in this mound. Um, and he carefully constructs it. It's got dirt and it's got decaying leaves, and he kind of like sticks his face in there to check to make sure the temperature is good for egg hatching. And he also has to fend off rival males who want to steal his dirt mound. Sure a sweet pad you know in dating, You know, isn't that

the human condition? We're all just fighting over dirt? Yes, yes, that is. I believe My favorite show Succession that had the line life is a knife fight in the muck. Yes quite, I mean the Australian brush turkeys certainly, uh certain, Yeah, like succession, but Australian brush turkeys and it's all these like going also mistreating its children, you know, leading its

jore to believe that it loves it. No, actually, you know speaking of that, like, yeah, it's not one of the like Compared to most bird species, this is not the most attentive parents. Once they hatch, the baby brush turkeys are fully fledged, meaning they can fly as soon as their wings dry, so like within hours they can't. They just find for themselves. There's no more parental care. That's it. Get a job, Get a job. The adult turkey is like you chipping in on rent. Yeah, you

just let your hatched go get a job. That's so good. Yeah I love it. Yeah, so you know, very much like Succession, I guess, although I guess, like, wait, isn't succession a bunch of rich kids who are like yeah they none, none of them have a real job. Even even the running the company doesn't feel like a real job. Do you see what they do? Wow? How unrealistic? I say, while I'm funded by companies, well, I talk about bugs for an hour for money. I love companies. I am

not infected with brain worm. That lesions me into loving company or in I believe that. Yeah, what if there's like a there's like a T GANDHIAI that makes makes you like attracted to ah capitalism. Oh my dude, if you don't think that somebody's working on that, if that was a real thing, it's if that's like priority number one. Maybe they already have maybe we're already eating it. I do really like those cheetos I mentioned earlier. Let's try

the the what was it served? Supreme? Hallepinia Supreme? Mr Hall of Pain you supreme. Yeah, that's right. I'd do anything to eat those. I'd rather have that than a pot roast. I'd rather have that than a good community. I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get. Like most of my comments on this show are very lovely and sweet, and I love I love them, and I love all of

you listeners. But once in a while I get someone who I think has wandered into the wrong classroom, and we'll leave a comment where it's like I mentioned vaccines, is like, why do you have to get all political? I'm like, ma'am, this is a science podcast. Vaccines are

a medical reality. I don't we like to get silly and joke about like Cheeto brain highsts, but it is science based, so you know, but I'm probably gonna get I'm probably gonna get someone who's like, why why did you get all political with with the capitalism brain virus? And it'll be fun. You're gonna get it with somebody who's like, why do you have to get all political about that? That brush turkey could have been a bush turkey part of the Bushhooki clan. And it's like, all right, man,

didn't mean to step into your whole thing. Why do you have to Why do you have to get all political saying you don't like styrofoam? What are you communist? I happen to work for big Styrofoam. Put food on my table, and most of its styrofoam. It's styrofoam food and I can eat it right, right, it's you want me out of a job in the styrofoam mines, right, just got hacking out big lumps of styrofoam, right, getting the foam lung. Yeah, yep, that's happening anyways. Um onto

this week's mystery animals. Sound here's the hint. It's a fashionista with a great sense for what look is in season. So again the hint is, it's a fashionista with a great sense for what look is in season. I guess it's uh, it's got to be a peacock, right, or like or like a dapper monkey of some kind, a dapper monkey, some kind of the West African dapper monkey,

the dapper tough did fancet monkey. That's my guest. But no, I feel like I feel like peacock is the closest thing I can think of to your prompt, to your hint. Now the listener can't see my face, but this is an impartan. It's a no no, it's an impartant going for impartial. It's an impartial mask of impartiality. Because the answer won't be revealed until next week, go on the next episode of Creature Feature, where you'll find out the answer to this and also how Creature Case is doing

on the markets. It's up, it has to be. It's have a these shares. The compound interest, man, is just like, I can't even tell you that's where you really make your money. You gotta divest, you gotta invest, you gotta like fold it. You win to fold it. You gotta no win to fold it and no win to hold it. That's the tricky part, is like people think it's knowing when to fold it, which is the tricky part. It's actually knowing when to hold it. It's the holding. It's

the holding. We have so many holdings. Anyways, Um, so hey, you know what, here's the end of the podcast now. But Adam, thank you so much for joining. It was great to see you too. Just all the it's like, man, your um, I miss you too, man, And it's like this is my secret ploy where it's like, ha, be on my podcast now, you have to be with me. Now we have to be friendly for about an hour. Honestly, I feel like that's how most of our friendships work

now and pretty much pretty much. How can I monetize this friendship? Hey, we've all we've all accepted the brain virus and are doing We're all doing well. All of us are doing well. So it's nice. It's exchanging labor with you. It really is. So where can people find you? Thank you for asking. So my my primary podcast that I do with Michael Swain is on the I Heart

network and you mentioned it earlier. It's one upsmanship. It is about video games, where we decide which video games deserved to be preserved for aliens on a celestial hard drive. Uh so check that out. Space Space, that's it, that's it. We can make the case. You can make the space. I got it in a cereal box. That should be a new deep song for us. I had a couple other podcasts for those of you who are just enamored with my voice. I talk about movies and the art

of directing and sharing media with your friends. And also we have a new podcast about the multiverse. All of that is over on the small Beans Patreon, which is patreon dot com forward slash small Beans. Go check it out. We'd love to we'd love for you to hear some of that stuff. And if you feel like it tosses a buck or two, which should be grateful, do it. Do it um and they do. Take creature cache. That's

our primary that's our primary currency. It's very it's very secure because when you get a creature cache, what you're getting is like a handwritten note from me with a little smiling face that like this is indicative of one creature. That's right, that this indicates a creature cache. Uh, it's also a smiling Protozola and as we agree with thettle winky base right, it's a kind of mitochondria for a grid. One of its Floodgella is giving a thumbs up. That's it.

Thank you guys so much for listening, um, and investing in my pyramid scheme. If you're enjoying the show and you want to leave a comment, even if it's like to um, get mad at me for my financial stands, Um, yeah, do that because it actually really helps. I read all the comments. I really enjoy them. And uh, it's also I'm gonna be great with you. It's the algorithm loves that. It just eats that right up. It's like a comment. Huh, this must be a good podcast. Um, and we must

all obey the algorithm. You know. Really, it's truly is. It's not even a joke. Um. And hey, thank you to the space Cossics for their super awesome song. Ex Alumina Creature features a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit the I Heart Radio app app podcasts or hey guess what wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm gonna be honest with you, don't care whatever you want, listen to wherever you want. You know what, I'm a free thinker.

See you next Wednesday.