Eat, Prey, Die

Let's take a look at some truly bizarre funerary rituals in the human and animal world, and at the scientific evidence for real life zombies. Discover this and more as we answer the age old question can you hypnotize a chicken? One of the most difficult aspects of being a living creature is that life inevitably ends. Some lifespans are incredibly short. After molting for their larval stage, female Dolania americana may flies live for only five minutes, just long enough to

mate and lay eggs before dying. And I'm sorry to say, but humans aren't even close to earning the title for longest lifespan, even among vertebrates. The greenland shark of the Arctic in Atlantic ocean have a lifespan of three hundred to five hundred years. Glass sea sponges, which are actually classified as animals even though they're less genial than the bob variety, can live for over ten thousand years. Impressive,

but we're not done yet. Hydras are a genus of tiny aquatic animals that are only a few millimeters long, and they help the misfortune of being shaped like a wiener with tentacles. The saying age before beauty takes on a different meaning for hydras because as far as scientists can tell, they don't age. They're biologically immortal, meaning they do not grow old and die, and they only perish

because of predation or other environmental factors. The cells of hydras are able to infinitely self renew, so theoretically they could live forever. Researchers have not yet found out how to make a special sauce out of hydras for humans to drink and become immortal, so unfortunately, we'll have to continue to cope with our temporary existence. It's ironic that the only animal that need not fear death lacks the

brain capacity to fear. Litt alone comprehend dying. An understanding of death is considered to be one of the defining aspects that separates mankind from animals. We think we're uniquely burdened with an awareness of our own mortality. But while it's true we may have a superior understanding of death when we compared to our animal cousins, are we actually alone in our ability to grief? Some animal behavior seems to indicate we may not be as isolated in our

grief as we thought. With me today to talk all about death is Cody Johnston, host of the show Some More News and the podcast Even More News. So, Cody, you're ready to go onto own to Imagineation station really very much too. Next stop our own our own Brains Imagination Show. So imagine you have a kid child. Alright, that's not the scary part yet, Okay, okay. Um, So you take you take her to a daycare center. Um it's a nice family run business, and you feel pretty

safe leaving your child in their tender love and care. Um. So one day, when you arrived to pick up your little girl, you stop to chat with the owner of the daycare about this and that and uh. Out at the corner of your eye, you notice your kid playing with a large baby doll. So the daycare center owner comments, oh, isn't that sweet? Your daughter is being such a good

little mommy to my sweet Timmy. So you're a bit confused and you ask, oh, it's that the doll's name Timmy, and the owner looks at you quizzically and goes, no, Timmy's my dear departed son, God rest his soul. In horror, you rush over to your daughter only to find that the quote unquote doll is the preserved mummy of a dead baby. Let's doesn't sound safe, very healthy. Well, bad news, Cody, because this is a reality for animals. That's very bad news.

So it's what do I call the cops in this scenario? To you? Like, is that illegal? It's not not illegal to do that, you know, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a doctor. Got a dead baby, lawyer, golden and golden dead baby lawyers, got a dead baby. We got solutions. So chimps will do this thing where chip mothers, when their little babies pass away, they carry them around for long periods of time, so sometimes for

up to sixty eight days. That's a really long time. Yeah, So if you can imagine at that point the babies aren't looking so great, so it's it goes beyond just maybe Oh, they don't recognize that they're dead. They don't understand. They think it's sleeping. Yeah, after a few days, that would become very clear. Yeah, because they essentially become like this beef jerky. Yes, yeah, like corps and so live

baby chimps will cling to their mothers. But a dead baby can't do that unless it died in the middle of hugging. Why would you, I mean, I don't scenario. Oh boy, um, yes, if it died in the midst of hugging the yeah, it'd be stuck there. But I think typically that doesn't happen, so they have to painstakingly carry it, keep it close to them. Flies and maggots and all just all nestled up in there. And juveniles

will play with the dead babies. So so these are young chimps, and often young young chimps, young primates will play with other babies. Kind of it's almost like they're learning how to become parents eventually. But it's just so weird to see them playing with you know, these this dead this mummy flinging it around like a stretch armstrong doll. Is it the same kind of playing or is it a different kind of playing? If it's a corpse, it's similar.

But I think they can be a little rougher on it because they don't necessarily get chided for flopping it around, and you can't, like with a live baby, there's going to be some resistance to rough housing or right right. And what's interesting is not all chimps are on board

with this dead baby playing reasonable up there. Well, there's this really interesting video where it's a chimp that's a mother to a live baby and a different chimps baby had died and the dead baby's mother kept the baby around, and so this other chimps child her baby, you know that I don't know, like young her kiddo um is playing with the dead baby and uh gets a little too close to her, you know, kind of flings it

in her direction. She does this double take at it, and then like jumps up and kind of has her hands you know that like little like hand waby do like get it away from me. It's so gross. She does that kind of and it's really it's like she's like, oh that's yeah, like recoiling like a kind of like, yeah, um, that seems like a normal reaction. Yeah. And uh, if you think this is only found in animals that have hands, you would be wrong. Cody. Yeah, why would I think that? Dumb?

So recently an orca made the news for tragic reason. It's always tragic reasons. Yeah, yeah, I think this is one of the most depressing shows. And it was just like, Cody is going to be perfect for it. Good, thank you for thinking. Um. So, for seventeen days and over one thousand miles, grieving killer whale was observed pushing the

dead body of her baby along as she swam. So the calf had died only minutes after it was born, and because the baby was so young, didn't have any blubber, So it's basically it would sink like rock without any help, so the bereaved mother would push it with its head

up towards the surface. And it's not This isn't a common behavior where you know, all orca's will carry around they're they're dead, but it has been documented at least once before, and it's hard to constantly observe orcas, so this was the second time that this has been Potentially there could be other at the time it's been observed. Yeah, there could be other times, but it seems like there's

probably been other times, right, Yeah, yeah, Yeah. It really was an extreme example of taking care of a dead baby because it's like she can't naturally carry it, so it must take a lot of effort to kind of

continually sort of get afloat. And I mean, I was wondering about this, like if it means the orca understands death and is grieving as a lot of people would have somewhere, if she's trying to do this thing where like when a baby orca calf is born, the mother and sometimes other members of the pod will try to kind of help push it to the surface to take its first breath because it, you know, it's a it's

a mammal, it has to breathe. But babies are pretty small and weak, so you can help it a little bit. So I don't know if that's worse or better if she didn't understand, right, because like even like elephants and cats and stuff like, there's a process after birth that's like all right, I'm going to get you going, yes, And just the idea that if it had did have if it died like a minute or two after it

was born. Then maybe she's like, oh, you're just You're just one of those whales that needs to be dumb babies, one of those stupid limp babies. Yeah. I think that is the sadder version though, Yeah, because I almost wonder. I mean, in my opinion, and this is it's hard

to know. I can't be in the brain of an orca, but I feel like it's this must be this really uncanny area between total understanding and not understanding where she must sense something's wrong because she's had a I think this this organ has had a calf before, so she knows what the normal behavior is. So she's probably why isn't the baby breathing? Why isn't it swimming on its own? And maybe this is something where she doesn't quite understand death.

But it's just like such a strange thing where it's like this really uncomfortable sense of like something's wrong and I don't know what it is. And that seems almost more heartbreaking. It's absolutely because then you're ye just pushing this along for literally a thousand miles, thinking like okay, well, eventually it'll get to the point where my other calf got didn't require me to do this for so long.

And I almost wonder if that's part, like that's not that different from human grieving, because even if we have this met a cognition where we understand death, there's must be part of us that doesn't really you know that that kind of can't really wrap our minds around it.

And I think that's why we do a lot of things like kind of hold on to a dead body for longer than you know you you have like an open casket funeral, or you make these preparations and yeah, yeah, and uh so, like you know, the traditional Irish wake, you're not supposed to leave the body alone. There's all this caretaking where it's not to be left unattended until

the time of the burial. Women wash the body and lay this deceased on a table or bed, and so all these things as if the body would have some kind of awareness or sensation, right, keeping keep your actively, like keeping it comfortable, yes, like treating it like, oh well, you just need to be pushed to the surface to breathe a little bit. Yeah, yeah, like in a in a coffin, we have it. It's plush, you know, it's really comfortable if you've ever tried one out. I have not,

but it looks comfortable. Casper Coffins hasn't sent me a free coffin that um, but yeah, as if the person is gonna be more or less comfortable there, and since they know the right or like, they'll wake up and they're like, at least I'm comfy here, right, right. And so there's just a couple of things about the Irish Wig that are pretty funny. So clocks are stopped to prevent bad luck, but I think it's also to stop

people from like checking the clocks and being rude. The other way they stopped it's like the time of death, because that would be like symbolic at least. I think they're just stopped to be like like, don't check the clock, okaye. In the yeah, yeah, and this is the best one. The mirrors were covered or turned towards the wall so the spirit of the deceased would not become trapped in

the room and classic, yeah, I don't ghost move. It's like they think ghosts sur laser pointers or something where it's like just like bunks into a mirror and like look stuck a right, you get stuck in a loop back and forth. They have no an agency over that. Yeah. So yeah, and then I imagine nowadays they say, like, put your phone away and you can take like photos and that'll trap the ghost in your phone. Yeah, you can't have that. That's why the snapchat thing is a ghost. No,

that's just a filter. You're just putting a filter. So you know how that chimp was carrying around it's dead baby until it turned into a sort of creepy mummy doll. Oh you mean that thing that'll stick with me for the rest of my Yes, yes, that's been seared into your memory and until the day you die, and then I'm carried around. Yes, I remember continues. So it's really interesting because you have all of these funerary rituals that

you have the body around. But I've never seen anything quite like this because in Indonesia, the bodies of dead loved ones are carefully kept intended to for weeks or even years. That's too long though, Um, So they're not just kind of left out to like rotten decay. They're very carefully dressed and treated as if they're living people, like to the point of rather given dishes of food. They're washed lovingly dressed, but they don't need I don't think it's quite to the point of like weekend at

Bernie's like pretending they're alive. Um, I mean then I'd be fine with it, I think. So this is interesting. Poor families can only afford to keep the body for a few weeks, but if you're wealthy, you can keep it around for years, presumably, because then you can like use these sort of clan seeing things to keep it from smelling and keep it from decaying in a gross way. If you're rich, you can do you can do it anything like that, right, you can do it to yourself.

You can do it to you You can be a be Walt Disney and freeze your head exactly. That's totally unconfirmed. Who knows, Disney, don't sue me. Um. It's really interesting because it's not as if they're not a little bit upset by this. They're they're not just like, oh, you know, dead body, but so they are like disturbed by like yeah, it's not like they're totally unaffected by it, obviously, but one Morner says that our love for our ancestors is

greater than our fear. So it's it's a really interesting thing where it's like they're sort of confronting death really head on, even if it's uncomfortable, where As I think in a lot of cultures, even in the US, there's sort of this thing of like you keep death kind of tucked away in a corner and a vault in your head so you don't have to really think about it. Sanitized. Yeah, yeah,

you keep it nice and nice and tidy in away. Yeah. So, but it's not over even once they kept the body around and it's been a few weeks or if you're lucky, a few years um, and then they entombed the bodies in a in a family plot. But every several years they'll return to clean care for the body and even put new clothes on it. Like there's this picture of this guy, and at first you're looking at it's like, oh, it's some some old guy with like a hat on

and some sunglasses. And then you look a little closer and it's definitely a dead person, just kind of propped up in a family photos. You literally just described a bit. It's maybe I mean wearing a hat and sunglasses. That is true. It's that he did rip off Bernie's fabulous style. It's interesting because Weekend that Bernie's is. I mean, it's part of this trend of like the idea of keep a dead body around in pop culture, like you know in Psycho Yeah the dead the dead mother, he keeps

her around talks to him. Yeah. I mean, like, how could a movie like Weekend of Bernie's exists unless there's a deep fascination, right, It's like a weird manifestation of something because we don't do that, like the Weekend of Bernie. You don't do that, but like America, Like it's not even a touchstone of how Americans deal with death, but it's still manifests itself in two films at least two,

but I guess three because we can Bernie's too. Also, how did so how did a sequel get made if nobody watched the first of a movie that like nobody connected to on an emotional level, that not many people saw it. It's just like a movie that we all know exists and can reference. I like the idea of like a film studio, like are you sure we've explored everything about Bernie? Like is there more we could sort of unveil in the second in the sequel that we

didn't really get to unpack. And the first one is Bernie. Yeah, we didn't. We understand who Bernie is, but we didn't understand who he is. Why Bernie? Why is Bernie? Yeah? I don't know if they explored that the second one. I have no idea what the second one is about. I assume it's they're just like, we got to go to a party. Let's dig up that corpse again. How long is like, what period of time is this happening over? Because I imagine Bernie is not looking sidad. I mean

it's a weekend, right, that's true. You know you can hang out. That's right there. You know who it's about, you know how long it takes. It's the time, the main subject and the place also only one. That's some efficient titling. Maybe that's why everyone knows it. Uh sorry, cutty. It's four if you count Swiss Army Man with Daniel

Radclip and Paul Daniel Daniel Daniels Yeah, directors Daniels. Yeah, and like it's Daniel radclup is a corpse that cast away be friends and the only thing I really know about the plot is that he farts a lot and it turns into like a boat. Yeah, it's a fart boat. That's also all I know about that movie. Daniel Radcliffe like his byline is just fart boat. Um. I was fart boat in my school's production to Swiss Army Man.

I like the idea that he's like a method actor and he's like, it's just like I have to become a dead fart boat. Like, yeah, you get in the tub of ice and just sort of eat beans. Yeah, it's actually five though. Because of that, there was that it was like it's like Kate McKinnon and I don't know whom else, but like a stripper dies and they're like like bachelorette party and they go they go out on the town, still still dumping on sex workers. Oh yeah, at least it's a males. Um. No, I haven't seen

that one. So they just pretend he's like alive or I'm going to assume that that's what happens, because otherwise the story is that a stripper dies at their bachelortte party and they call the police. In the movie, just make a movie about that. Yeah. Yeah, they go to the police, they explain the situation, they take the body, and then they continue their bachelorrette party and a lot of forms. Maybe just called it a night though, because

that's that's stressful. That's pretty heavy. Yea, yeah, just a movie about responsible adults, yeah, not having a great time, yeah, and then going to bed early. So there's this thing where you can get ashes turn into diamonds. That sounds unnecessary or like like just like gems are like yeah, yeah, No, it's not just like this big ashy diamond like flaking off. No, it's like they I guess they compress it into like a cubic zironium and like then you can wear it.

That's not no, it's it's I think it divorces it enough from like the dead person thing. Unlike um animal taxidermy where you get your pet stuffed. It's there's not a single one of those that really works. Like like I've never seen a taxidermy pet where I'm like, yeah, that looks that just looks like a dog. No, they're always disturbing. Yeah, it's always the eyes are a little too far apart, like the mouth doesn't look right, like

we're just like dead eyes. You can tell with pets, I mean, at least with like dogs or something like there's personality in life in their eyes. Yeah, and once you get rid of that, yeah, well, you know a solution to that is put some sunglasses on your on your dead eyes. Yeah, put wheels on its feet, sunglasses and just like roll down the street. Yeah, WEKENDARKI I smell a squeak. Will It's inevitable that owners will mourn the loss of their dogs, but can dons also feel

the loss of a deceased human owner. There are many viral videos of dogs wailing at funerals, resting their heads on caskets, or waiting at grave sites. But even though this is really sad, it doesn't necessarily show an understanding of death. It does show distress, so maybe the dogs are picking up on the sadness of the human mourners or drawn to the smells of their owner. There's a timeless example of a dog showing loyalty extending beyond death. It's the story of Hatchko. Hatchiko was a dog who

lived in Japan during the nineteen twenties. His owner was a professor who would arrive home by train every day. Hatchko learned to travel to the train station in time to greet as returning owner but the professor passed away suddenly, and Hatchiko continued to walk to the train station right on time to breathe the train that once carried his

beloved owner. He continued this routine for nine years. Hatchiko may not have understood death or that his owner could never return, but his behavior seemed to indicate a persistent, tenacious memory and perhaps a hope of being reunited. As much as we may want to go back in time to give Patchiko a hug, it's touching to note that some dogs are given the job of offering comfort to

human mourners. There are Greek therapy dogs who are trained to offer cuddles and affection to console those coping with loss. Studies have shown the dogs are able to detect when humans are crying and respond with nuzzles and lips. It's good to know that there's research to explain why my dogs six are smelling tongue in my face whenever I'm

watching a Pixar movie. Just so you don't get too depressed, Etchca's story was published in a national newspaper, and in response, people provided them lots of hugs and treats and kissas and all that crap. We'll be back to be emo about more deathbacks after a few quick messages. People fake their own death for a variety of reasons, insurance scams, evading the law, getting out of family obligations, and so on.

As we'll discuss. Animals fake their own death too, but it's typically to escape danger, to trick their predators into moving on or letting their vigilance slip just enough to allow the prey to spring back to life and escape. It seems like a rudimentary trick, but it's been saving animal lives for ages and apparently the humans as well. Recently, it was reported that exiled Russian journalists are Katie Babchenko

was killed in his home in Kiev, Ukraine. He was found face down in a pool of blood, cleared dead and taken to the morgue. So it was a big surprise to his family and friends when he showed up alive and healthy on television the next day. The trick his assassin really was asked to murder Babchenko, but instead of carrying out the plot, he went straight to the Ukrainian security Service. They, along with Babchenko, decided to stage the journalist's death to trap the man who hired the assassin.

This staged murder accomplished two things, saving the journalist's life and trapping the man who tried to kill him. It may seem like the sophistication and double purpose of this ruse would be unique to the intelligent planning of humans, but as we'll discuss, animals go to elaborate links to play dead, not only to evade poundation, but even for nefarious purposes. Uh so, Cody, you ready to take a stop at imagination station again? I'm more ready than I've

ever been. Nice. So, imagine waking up in the hospital and you can't move. Come on, Katie, no, I really want you to be there. Are you there, Cody, get there, go there, and good good. You're completely paralyzed, and you hear the doctors talking over you, saying things like time of death and such a shame at such a young age. You want to call out to them that you're still alive, but you're frozen. You feel yourself being placed in a plastic bag and you're zipped up. Then you find yourself

on a slab in the morgue. With horror, you watch helplessly as a mortician starts up a saw to cut open your chest. M hmmm from there? All right, did you ever watch A Dead Like Me? The show? So I didn't watch the whole thing because um I started watching it. And so it's about this this young woman who becomes a grim Reaper and she dies, she gets a new body on earth to be to be a grim Reaper person, and she doesn't want to do it

because she doesn't like killing people. But like she finds out that it's not that she's killing people, that she's like taking their souls out of there. And there's a scene where like she refuses to reap this guy and he's like he wakes up in the morgue and like it's just from his perspective going like no, no, no, I'm alive. I'm alive, and like they're like like certain because like in the autopsy they like cut you open stuff and it's just like gave me so many nightmares.

It's the worst thing. Just like I'm so afraid of locked in syndrome. I'm afraid of all that. Uh any sort of like a paralysis and like being fine, So why would you do this to me? Well, because uh, this is a real thing. Um, it's called tonic immobility and animals, and it's both lifesaver and a nightmarish curse as our most most things in the animal kingdom. So it's mother nature is a real uh, real sarcastic bit sometimes. Um. So it's a hypnotic catatonic state induced by lying on

the back or being startled. Um. It's found in a lot of animals, typically more like reptilian is ish animals. So like so you want it's like barred grass snakes, Burmeister's leap frog specifically that one gotta call out, um, the common swift and sharks. Um. Yeah, sharks is a fish, not a reptile. So you can induce catatonian sharks by rolling them over on their backs, and scientists do this

to tag check up on the shark's health. Um, But like orca is, do it just to evil or they're real assholes, like shamoo is just like he's a huge dick. Probably has reasons for that, right, well, Shammou does, but the rest of them haven't. But in sharks, um, great white sharks need to move to keep water flowing through its skills. So there's been stuff where it's like oh no, like the thing where sharks have to move to live as a myth, or other people saying no, it's true.

It's a combination. Um, it's if it was on Snopes, would be like mixed truth. But then like I wouldn't want to read it because it's like you got to read that after the false conclusion. I just want yeah, nuances dumb, it's nerds. Um so, uh, great white sharks need to move because they are obligate ram ventilators. Sounds really cool, good collection of syllables. Yeah it is. It's it sounds so fancy. So like makos and great white

sharks are like that. Um, but not all sharks. So if these little sharks, little great white sharks stay in tonic for two cute cute little boo pupple noses, so they can actually die because like they they can't move, they're paralyzed. So it's not a great thing for the shark. Um. But uh it's uh so they're just like lying they were like where these jerk orchids are probably laughing at them.

They're like, can't move. My one weakness I asked you specifically to not do this to me, Like my one thing is like not to be flipped over, Like I can't work when you flip me over. I'm like a room, but I don't care. Yeah, or don't give a fuck. Did you know you could hypnotize chickens? No, it's cool you can so, um you hoole it's head down on the ground. That doesn't sound like hypnotizing that. It's just like, well,

all right, I mean it's a little dirt. You shove it in the dirt, and you call it a nerd and yeah, yeah, hypnotize, hypnotize, yeah, see, hypnotize it. Um. And then you draw a line. I mean it's gently yet firmly keep its head on the crew and then draw a line from its beak outward, like with a piece of chalk, or like if it's in the dirt, you can draw it with like a stick or your finger, but like there has to be like a physical line from its beak, not on its beak, but like from

its beak outward. And then like you do it kind of quickly, and then the chicken just stares at the line, and you can let go of the chicken and it remains there staring at the line. I don't like that. So easy to hack animals brains it is. It's weirdly easy. Um. So that's the tonic immobility. And then there's um a a different type of this called thanatosis, which is specifically feigning death for the purpose of um boarding off predators

that have got you. So it's unclear whether tonic immobility is always advantageous if it's always because like the idea of the chicken hypnotism is that they feel threatened by this ominous line on the ground, like it's like it's like snake related or like who knows, like maybe they see it into them. It's something coming at them, like they can't like it looks like motion coming at them, like this line the perspective of it, because they're little

dumb chicken brains can't figure it out. Um. I don't know why it would be useful for sharks. It seems just like a little bit of an oversight. Yeah, that seems like a pain in the ask, Like we should try to evolve past this, especially for the sharks that need to move to right, like it's one thing that

they need. Yeah, it's a pretty big bug there, guy, because even like yeah, most you know, animals, like all right, you're paralyzed a bit on your back, but like you can still breathe over time, you'll be fine if you literally need to keep moving. Very cruel, dumb sharks, Yeah,

stop being sharks. Um, But like, uh so, you know, playing possum is a real strategy, and it's useful for like like the predators like whoa, you've been dead awhile, yeah, humans do it, like we all have yeah reaction to There's this idea that fainting at the side of blood could be like a strategy in combat where it's like, whoops, I'm dead, now leave me alone. Now realized that everyone

around me is getting blood into death. So I also yeah, like, oh I'm dead, right, please don't move along, move along nothing fight done. I did beat me right. And it's interesting because like I think men suffer from the it's called the vase of vagal response um as much if not more than women, So it kind of makes sense from that. But you know, it's with anything in evolutionary biology, it's hard to say whether that's really the case. It's

just a theory. Um. So, like possums don't just roll over on their backs, they actually like emit a foul odor from their anal gland and a nice, nice butt juice that smells like death. Yeah, the parasympathetic nervous system does control things like butt juice and which it controls like your heart rate and an other sort of like non conscious aspect of your body's functioning. So it's like, uh, it makes the heart rate drop by half and respiration by a third, and body temperature drops by half a

degree celsius, which is a lot significant. So it's like they're not just like whoops, like rolling over like a dog playing. It's like their bodies are like you're pretending to be dead, right, if we're all on we're all on board. Yeah, my dad found, like he found a possum in our backyard and we were pretty sure it was dead, Like we knew about the possum playing dead, but it was like it smelled bad. It was like rigor mortis were like, no, this is certainly a dead possum.

Like it it's we know they play possum, but like so he like took a shovel and like dropped it in the canyon because we have a lot of coyotes and stuff and they take care of all stuff. But then like as soon as he dropped it like rolled back on his feet and just like strolled away, and I was just like what, Yeah, I didn't really that's so cool. Yeah that like, yeah, they're literally like our

bodies are playing dead, right, yeah. Yeah, it's not just like coyotes are so dumb that they're like, oh, it's on its back, it's not moving, all the systems are yeah, like it smells dead, um and then uh, the hog nosed snake plays dead by rolling over, letting its tongue hang out, and again a foul older is released from its anus um. And I tried to find out if like, because you know, sometimes people like you know, they do

a duty in their pants and they're scared. I couldn't find anything that would suggest that would that's like intentional, but it could be. Yeah. Yeah. It's also like that sort of goes hand in hand with like sort of freezing and like I'm so terrified I can't move and like I just shipped myself right. Like the actual scientific reason is that I think that like you're all of your resources are getting diverted to other things like fight or flight poops. That is that's a that's like in

the Journal of poop. A spooks make poops? Chapter four, Chapter four, What spooks make what poops? Which kind? Yeah, but it is interesting that maybe, I mean it could be just like an effect that happened, like maybe with these animals. At first it was just like relieving themselves because all of their bodies stuff was going to something else.

But then it kind of evolved into this more sophisticated type of anal secretion, right, because like, yeah, humans have the next step, the next step in our evolution because we don't. We don't need to do that. We have a society and so we're not all like playing ted and shipping ourselves to protect each other. Might have to, we might have to. We'll see, we'll see how things

go like that. Yeah, but like, yeah, if possum like over many many many many many many many millions of years, like that's a thing that they developed that did the anal secretion. Yeah, it's proven to be effective art right, Right, So, Cody, can I take you to the visualization Nation? Yes? I love I love living there, living there in imagination Town, soaking it all up. Ye, living living that so dead life, Cody, you watch a lot of zombie movies. I'm familiar with

zombie movies you have heard of. I've seen several zombie films. I am familiar with the concept that it's dead people who roam the earth and cause all sorts of mischief. Yes, so you've seen like The Walking Dead or h So there's this idea I have that I can't stop thinking about. Where what if like in twenty eight days later in The Walking Dead, which when you think about it, don't really make a whole lot of sense that you would

just have this like zombie virus take over the world. Yeah, it requires a lot of magical thinking and right, Um, so like like, how do zombies keep walking after their muscles and tendons rot away? Like they're not producing a t P? Cody, how can they be producing a t P if their sells are dead? Um? How do they digest human brains if they don't have guts? And why aren't they eating each other? Cody? Again, I didn't make

the rules or something. So I feel like, what if we're mistaken about what's going on in these movies and TV shows? Instead of this unrealistic, unfathomable zombie virus that somehow wipes out all of humanity, it's a virus that only afflicts a few people, infects their brains and causes

them to become delusional. And so the quote unquote survivors are actually the only infected people, and they're hallucinating that the world is full of decaying monsters because like you can't have like a decaying thing walking around, but you can't, like there is observable viruses that can infect you and makes you become delusional or crazy, like rabies in Ti Gandhi I that can have an effect on the brain.

So I'm like really into this idea. Yeah yeah, So like but then think of like shows like The Walking Dead and look at it like in that way, like the that that's why all those swat teams, you know how like in especially like video games like Left for Dead, you have all these swat teams and policemen or people in has matched suits like coming at you, but they're all zombified. How does someone in a hazmat suit become

a zombie? They wouldn't. It's because they're trying to protect themselves and they're approaching You're trying to quarantine the sars, and that's why they're police and swat teams. Like in full swat because they would be able to shoot the zombies if they really zombies and you were in a swat team, right, you would be fine, She'd be fine. Yeah. Uh so that's why you and your flannel and torn jeans are okay quote unquote Okay, where's a swat team

is not? Okay? Yeah? Wait, it's not because I'm a hero, big cowboy hero. You're you're you're a cowboy hero. Thank you, thank you, you get you get one free one. Um. So, like the survivors are just killing innocent regular people who are trying to go about their daily business. Yeah, like like taking over prisons and like killing all the prisoners and then yeah, and that's why, like why when you they break into a car, all these zombies come running

towards them. It's not that they're like angry at car alarms. It's because they're like, hey, don't steal that car, right, they're being good citizens. I'm I'm on a live police officer. Hey you stop that. Ye put your hands up. So I remember. Um, I didn't actually watch a lot of The Walking Dead. I was pretty upset by some of the mature themes. Well it's not very good, but like So there's this thing where Rick Grimes is in like

he's a crime. He's in a parking lot and there's this little girl in like her pajamas and remember that, and it is supposed to be this scene. I was like, Oh, this show is so edgy. It goes places that other shows don't. And she's like roaming around and she drops her teddy bear and she picks it back up and then he's like, hey, little girl, you're you okay? And she turns towards him and like half her face is missing and it's super growdy and he's like oh and

and he's he had like called out to her. So she's like wandering towards him, but she's just kind of like shambling towards him, like shuffling, and then he shoots her in the face. Right like so like if this is like just a virus that affects Rick Grimes and he's delusional and he sees this thing that is impossible. You can't a corpse can't walk around, it's just biologically impossible.

Then he he's like rabid and like those friendly little girls like I just picked up my teddy bear, you know, right, Because like in the in the reality of the show as they present it, Like a zombie is wandering around with teddy Bear drops it slowly shuffles. Why would a zombie pick up a teddy bear? Like, why would a zombie be like or drop mon teddy Bear. You know

it's not going to do that. It's gonna like, you know, ignore that, you don't, I mean, don't some zombie films, uh say that, like, oh, well, like a piece of a piece of the person is still left, which doesn't make sense in terms of bulls actual bullshit, because that's not what would happen to deteriorating. Well, you can't listen, guys. A t P is dina triphosphate and it's the building box of life and if your cells are dead, it can't process that and you cannot create energy. It sounds

like you should write a letter to the show. Can you actually an episode? All of them? Well? Actually, thank your biology. It's true though, well also your idea is way better. Thank you. Thank you. I like I like that you said that to me, You get one. If I like, I would watch I would start watching the show Againe with revealed and then we like, yeah, that wouldn't that be like, I'm you know, twists are out their passing. Now you can't do twists, um, but I

think that would be legitimately yeah, yeah I can do it. Well. I also like, I'm really like, I think twists obviously, yeah, they're like they're old and tired. But if it's if you like dedicate like eight seasons and then you fundamentally change your show you get going, you would make Will so mad it would be great. Yeah, I don't know, like and and then the show is really interesting and good. Yeah that's it. That's how Lost should have ended. That they were all that they were there. But yeah, I

mean I feel like that would be really interesting. Just like you think you have like this scientifical scientifical scientific impossibility or improbability replaced by something that we actually have. You know, there's no there's no specific virus that makes you see dead people. But rabies can make you hydrophobics, so you don't want to drink water because it's bad for the virus to come into contact with water. So

it makes you afraid of water. It makes you avoid water, which could help you, and it makes you aggressive and kind of like turn on people, and it can make people like become delusional and and sort of psychotic, which is really scary. It's a really terrifying idea that the virus can just hijack your brain, yeah, and like control your fears, yeah, and make you actively reject a life saving thing like water because it's not good for the virus.

It's crazy, right, So yeah, they're like if contact with humans who don't have the virus is bad for the virus or something like that, and then like, yeah, you're going to fear anyone who's not in your delusion with you, right right, Yeah, Like like somehow the virus doesn't want to be you know, it wants to go and reproduce it. It doesn't want to be trapped by, you know, the swat team, which is maybe why rabies makes you aggressive, because it allows the virus to be transmitted through biting

and through saliva. So it's it's kind of like you've become aggressive of because you've basically become a slave to the rabies which is making you and it wants to multiply and spread on its own terms, right, And so like the zombree be the technical term, the scientifical term zombbies, like it could make you become aggressive by making you see other people it's like scary monsters, right and then yeah, and then uh, you know whether it's like okay, well,

then you're going to gravitate towards people who are infected. And then if there's some sort of like way that it multiplies by just like being around other infected people and create like a community. Right, You're you're drawn to other people like how t gandhi I which, Uh, it's a virus that infects rat brains and makes them unafraid or attracted to cats that like it completes its life

cycle with other cats. So like your your zombre abies patent painting, Uh, we'll make you drawn to other people with the virus like yeah, together petri dish of Yeah, to protect to each other. I like it. Yeah, movie exects d m me. So imagine that this virus is real, but instead of hallucinating that other people are zombies, you're hallucinating that you yourself are a zombie. I don't want to do that bad news, Cody, because it's a real thing.

I know you gonna be so excited for this idea. Um. So, there is a psychological illness called cotard delusion, in which sufferers believe they are dead, have lost their soul, are missing internal organs, blood or other body parts, or this is the weirdest one, that they just don't exist at all. Yeah, like they never existed, like they're they that they just don't Yeah, it's not a logical thing. It's like they

don't exist. They don't recognize their own existence. So like, I can't even imagine what that feeling is like, Right, if you're having those thoughts, then you exist. Yeah, it's like this is covered by Decarte. You guys, we already we did this a long time. Um. It's called a nihilistic delusion, which comes with this feeling of self negation. So the common theme with all the iterations of the delusion is that you're dead, you don't exist, You're you're gone,

there's part of you missing auh. And it's co morbid, meaning it occurs with severe depression or psychosis often, So it's it's a I mean, it's so it's so hard to wrap my head around like what it would feel like to be like, no, I'm I'm dead. Yeah? Is it like does it just sort of happen? Is it like a slow sort of deterioration and you sort of like start to notice things or just like suddenly it's like I'm dead. Well, I think it's not. It's not quite like super sudden, because I think you would have

depression or psychosis preceding it. Um. But it isn't like you think you're slowly becoming dead. It's like you you do kind of have this onset of like no, i'm I'm I'm dead, or like a sort of realization like oh, that's why I've been dead this whole time, right, And yeah, that's because then you'd still be interacting with people, like

you'd still be able to talk right people. Yeah. And it's really interesting because like it doesn't matter if family members are trying to convince you that no, no, you're alive, like they'll argue with right. Well. I mean I imagine that's also part of it. The I know that like people, you know, if you're really entrenched in this idea and someone's like arguing against you, like no, no no, no, this,

and they use that as proof they're actually correct. I guess one way to think of how it would feel is, you know, deja vu um. It's that feeling that like it's not just that, Oh, I think maybe this has happened before. It's this very specific feeling that everything that's currently happening in all its specificity has happened before in

exactly that same way, which is very unlikely. Um. So the idea is that it may be sort of this misfiring in your brain where you're sort of like recording a memory but also playing it at the same time, so you have this sense that all of these specific things are lining up, but they've happened before, even though you can't point to a certain memory, and even understanding

that that is probably like a brain goof up. When I experienced it, I'm like, new, don't know this, this is this time, it's real, like right, there's no arguing with yeah, right when you actually feel it, your brain is telling you otherwise exactly where it's like, you know, I'm eating an apple and a bird flies by and like,

you know, my left arm kind of hurts. I'm like, no, this exact thing has happened before, which it probably hasn't, probably not because you would probably remember it, remember saying like whenever it's having to me, have been like but I don't remember it, right right, feel like right, I

remember it, right, right, right? And so I think it's like, even if they're being given all this evidence that no, you're not dead, their brain is so strongly telling them that they don't exist, that they are dead, that there's some of this like missing part of them, they can't help but feel that, right, right, Yeah, I mean yeah, I just don't know how that would feel, because then, yeah, you're just like, well, no, I'm dead. I can't I'm not.

I'm listening to you and I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't change how I feel right now, right, isn't it. It's kind of an interesting different version of what we're talking about earlier, where like if someone else dies, you can hold these two uh conflicting ideas at once. One is that they're gone, they're dead, they're no longer here. The other is I want to take care of and protect them, even though their body doesn't really contain them.

You know, you want to, you don't quite accept it, but you still have these feelings and these instincts to take care even though you know it's uh not doing anything for them, right. And then yeah, I have this this feeling that I'm dead, even though intellectually I hear what you're saying, Yeah, that makes all logical sense, but right you feel it's so strongly that like you hold,

like rationality just kind of slips away from you. So I can imagine that if you have Cotard delusion, like you may have some kind of sense of like, well, now I wouldn't be dead and and still breathing and stuff, but then that kind of like slips away from you, and I think and like in some of these case studies, people will go to weird lengths to kind of justify it. Like one woman said that she could smell herself to Kaying, so she had the understanding that if she was really

dead there would be visible signs. But instead of that, um, you know, kind of destroying the delusion, she just invented things, not not intentionally. This is not she's not trying to justify it, but she's her hallucinations are adapting to her

reasoning ability. So so she's having this oldfactory hallucination that she smells like she's rotting because maybe part of her brain is sort of saying like, oh, no, would you really be you, you'd be smelling bad, which I can totally kind of understand because I remember in high school there's this traumatic thing where we were dissecting fetal pigs and it was pretty upsetting because cute animal but also

cute smart animals, little little mud puppies. Um. But like the smell of formaldehyde was so strong and Fromalehide's not a good chemical for you, so like it makes sense that you're kind of repulsed by it because it's not not great. But I could smell it like for days afterwards.

Like I would smell a piece of clothing and think I smelled it on that piece of clothing, and like, you know, my my mom would be like, no, this doesn't you're you know, but like I had some kind of such a strong association with this like really kind of like traumatizing feutal pig dissection, that like that smell became attached to that shirt. And then I had this like sort of like mild like olfactory hallucination where I thought this shirt was permanently smelled of formaldehyde even though

it didn't write. Because it's so linked to memory, Like you if that sounds like a very strong memory for you that was that has still stuck with you. Um, And yeah, if you're have that sort of traumatic experience then your brains to dip back into it. Even like when you're thinking about it, you smell it because you are replaying that memory and it sort of creates that again for you. Yeah, like you can you can kind of call upon your brain to create an odor even

if you're not exactly smelling it. Like if you think about that smell of freshly baked cookies, you can kind of get this sort of phantom smell, if that makes sense. Like you're you're not literally, you know, inhaling and smelling it, but you're remembering what it smells like and then sort

of creating the sense to a certain point. Right. And it's the same thing with like you can hear someone's voice, you can see someone, you know, So with hallucinations, it's just that but create like created, and it's entirety like you you're actually smelling it. Yeah, Well, like during brain surgery, often the patient will be conscious an ethnetized, you know, but conscious, um, so that they can let the brain surgeon know everything's okay, that you know, they haven't suddenly

gone blind or something. Um. But but like when they're when they're kind of poking around in the brain, the patient can experience things like smells or like flashes of color because like you're you're sort of stimulating these the parts of the brain, and it's just so interesting that you can you can create a smell out of just

like digital manipulation of brain tissue, so I can. It's just like it's almost like you have this like mad scientist brain surgeon inside your head controlling what you think to the point where you're like, oh man, I'm I'm a dead person and I can literally smell my body to king and that just sounds awful. It's real bad. Well, I mean it's going to be like that's the future

of you know, like VR and stuff. You hook up to a thing and then pretend to be a dead person, like that really fun game that we all want to play. But yeah, like you know, you go to the this game takes place at the beach, and so it creates the sensation in your brain. They're smelling the ocean and you feel a breeze and you do smell it and you feel the breeze because it's smelling that like kelp stink. It's really nice. Yeah, yeah, that that kelp Stink that

we all want to play. A video game. Yeah exactly. But yeah, I just think it's so crazy that you would be in a situation where you can't escape your brain's own delusion to the point where you have some really like maladaptive behaviors, like you're this one guy picks my heart. He uh showed up to a graveyard because he was like, oh, you know, I feel like more comfortable around here because you know, these are also dead people, just like, oh my god, buddy, all right, your brain

is making me. Yeah, And it's not like other delusions where it's like I'm I'm Napoleon, where it seems, you know, like not constantly horrifying. Yeah, just because that just sounds like dread all the time and despair all the time. Yeah, yeah, like like if you've ever died in a dream or like, you know, just it's so it's spooky. Yeah, it's like that prank. Have you seen this where it's like this

I think I was going to bring this up. Yeah, So it's the prank where you pull it on your younger brother or something where you pretend they're invisible, but you go to the like the one I saw they

had taken a photo take a photo beforehand beforehand. So so you set it up so like say your little brother is sitting on the bed and then you have your spirit or other douchebag sister sitting next to him, and you pretend to take a picture, but beforehand you had taken a picture of just the sister sitting on the bed with her arm like the same right, And then so like you you show the picture to the little ten year old and although you should be she's

pretty pretty pretty onto it. Yeah, But the ones I've seen have been like the entire family isn't on it. Oh that's so mean. Yeah, and they're like they're all playing along and they all freak out and like the kid like touches the mother and like she's like, oh I just felt something. Like they take it to the extreme. It is sociopathic. That's very upsetic. Can you imagine like just that, because that's like inducing Cotard delusion and like you don't exist and the kids get like, I'm so upset.

I saw one the one I saw, the kids starts crying. Everyone i've seen the kid starts crying because it's like it's their whole family, like their mom and their dad is in on it and they're all like, they're all like so upset that they're invisible. It's I hate them.

What happened to pranks Like where you like put shaving cream on someone's hand and their nose itches or something, you know, Or like you put like a rubber band around like the sprayer at the sink so you turn the you know, like you pull the hose out and you can like spray your dishes or whatever. So you put a rubber band around it. So when they turn the water on, they expected to come out of the faucet, but because the rubber band is holding down the thing,

that's raised them a little bit. It's not like a nice prank. They get a little wet, but it's better than like psychologically starring your child with your entire family. Yeah. I'd rather get a little wet than have my existence negated by my closest family. Yeah, it's like, don't do that.

Come on, there's gotta be other fun thing you can do. Yeah. Well, you know when the good old days when pranks were like you go to like a neighborhood and you like shove someone down and they get mad, and you're like it's just a prank. Bro Oh, Yeah, that good old days. Yeah reminds me where I certainly was the one doing the pushing and not not the one being pushed. Yeah, it sounds like you were good prankster. I was real good and popular. Have you ever played The Last of Us?

It's a zombie survival horror video game, and it's one of my personal favorites because of a key detail in the game. The zombification process occurs not through a virus, but due to a parasitic fungus that infects the brain of the host, causing aggression and behaviors that allow the

fungus to thrive and create spores to spread. This is one of the more realistic conjectures about how a zombie apocalypse might occur, and it is no small part due to where the game creators drew there in spurretion from a real parasitic fungus called Ophio corteseps, which is a scourge of ants who live in the forests of Thailand. In Brazil, a foraging ant may encounter one of the

many spores of the fungus. Once the spore has made its way inside the ant's body, it gets to work breaking down the little guy's exoskeleton, causing convulsions that drop the ant from its tree to the forest floor. The crazed infected ant is then driven by the fungus to climb up a plant and grasp a leaf with its mannibles. In the literal death grips, the ant parishes as the fungus grows all the back of its head into a long stop with the fruiting body at the end that

will eventually release more spores. Ophio corteseps is no joke, has been responsible for the destruction of entire ant colonies. That's what makes The Last of Us extra creepy. In fact, the game developers name their zombie fungus corteseps after the ant infecting variety. So the next time you stop at the idea of a zombie apocalypse, those tiny little picnic crashes have been dealing with it for millennia. We'll be right back. Guys. Death sucks. It's truly the worst. So

it's no wonder we all fantasize about immortality. Yeah, I know, there's like lots of cautionary tales about being careful what you wish for, how living forever would be lonely and boring, But come it sounds like sour grates. Obviously, it would suck to be the only immortal person. But what if humanity didn't have to die? You may say, like, oh,

we'd run out of space. I'm sorry, but like, once we have the technology to become immortal, don't you think we'd master pocket dimensions or at least colonize a few new planets. Not having to cope with death would be awesome. And I'm not going to be whimsically wise about how death is all part of life. It's not. It's the ending of life. It's like the literal opposite of being alive. With that said, I do want to talk about forms

of immortality that would actually be terrifying. Sure death is really bad and it'd be great to avoid it, but there are certainly fates worse than death and creepier. Still, this is not mere hypothetical conjecture at this point. As Cody and I will reveal, there are some real current scientific advancements that post some truly unnerving philosophical and psychological questions. So, Cody, if you die, would you want to freeze yourself like

they say that Walt Disney did? Um Probably not, I would say It actually kind of might depend on where we're at a in the world and like how how we're all doing um as a species, but also where technology has has gotten right. To be clear, I'm not sure there's any evidence to suggest that Walt Disney froze's head. However, there's no evidence to suggest he did not freeze his head. That's why I believe it is a fact. Yes, yes, it seems like something he'd do. Yeah, he's had his

Frisden in the Disney vault with all the DVDs. I feel like Elon Musk is going to do that for sure.

I wouldn't think at first I was going to say, maybe Steve Jobs, but he was really like, you know, I'm only going to eat fruit kind of guy, So I don't know, pretty spiritual despite his actions, and like wow, he like his company, but he was like, you know, he did a lot of acid stuff and was pretty like we're all connected in a way, but like, I'm not gonna some were connected to like maybe it has to do with how much money they have and like but but like cool man, I like the idea that

like say this works, like you can freeze yourself, like future generations are just going to think that past generations are full of douchebags, because it's only going to be rich douche and they're all going to be like demanding pants and like you know, give me a robot body and like not like they won't just be happy with like being waken up. They'll demand things. But it's not

it's not it's not like a Philip situation. There is amazing like oh, you're you you think that, yeah, you're on the level right right, Like that Twilight Zone where they like freeze themselves and then the they it's a bunch of crooks that steal gold bars and they're like, well, how do we escape the heat. It's like, well, we'll freeze ourselves. And then in the future they'll forget to

stop to chase us. They won't know who we are, and it all kind of works, you know, there's some murder involved, and then like they they're like killing each other over this gold and stuff, and then it turns out future people don't need gold, don't need it. It's just common commonness. Clay's a pretty rare element. Well, in the future times, it won't be for reasons for reasons, well maybe yeah, maybe they've met like fusion and fish like creating gold. Even if you could, the energy required

to make the gold would be more of them. The gold is all right, all right. But by then, also you assume that they have harnessed solar power pretty effectively. Yeah, things have been draining that sun. Yeah, that sun juice, like sun juice from but juice to sun juice. Also, if I feel like instead of freezing, at some point, it'll be closer, Like I know one of the companies that Elon Musk is heavily invested in, and I think

it's his company. But like with like neural networks and like and being able to sort of link your brain two machines in manipulating machines, so like you just use your brain waves to affect. But I feel like it's leading towards like, oh, I just want to put my my brain that's dying into a robot and that comes on as opposed to I want to freeze my self and hope that right, we can fix it later. Yeah, Yeah, it's interesting. I mean it's effectively just freezing your brain,

but in a different way. Yeah, we just don't understand quite what consciousness is. I do think it's funny because like these rich people that are freezing themselves, like the budget way is to freeze your head. I mean you still have to be really rich and a little bit delusional, but like you know, it's just like, man, I'm not going to pay for my whole body. They'll figure it out. But I mean, like, I don't know, like waking up after being frozen for so long, it doesn't seem like

a good time. I know, like the Futurama funness of like you wake up, you have a fun, fun friends and a crabman and you only go on adventures. Yeah. Um, but I feel like, I mean, so you know that would be like Encino Man, we're brandan freezing so yeah, yeah, where he wakes up and he's like a sexy idiot caveman. That's not like us now freezing ourselves. That's like a caveman accidentally frozen, right right, mas Yeah, and he like I forgot how that movie I watched a long time ago.

But like they're like, we're going to civilize you, and they dress them up as like a nineties teen and like take him to malls and like all the girls think he's hot and he has these like very neat and nice dreadlocks. So like, um, but like, uh, I mean like I feel like that would be the best case scenario. As you wake up, everyone's way smarter than you and they view you as like this oddity, but hopefully you'll be like found by some rascally teenagers. So

would frogs actually do this? Pretty well, they go through a process of freezing themselves completely, like their rock solid frozen. They're not just like oh I'm cold. You could smash them with a hammer and they would shout out to a million frog pieces, like even inside like they're insides or well, it's a little more complicated, but I mean, yes, they're insides are frozen, but on the cellular level, uh, they're kept hydrated, so their cells are not completely frozen.

Everything else is, but it's like, um, it's frozen, but there's like sort of like this uh anti freeze kind of thing in their cells that keeps them from because the one of the problems with freezing is that the little ice crystals burst cells and destroys the cells um or like they become desiccated. Yeah, so um, what they do is as winter comes on and the frogs are like, well,

I can't go on and where I'm a frog. Um, so they like, so they start to freeze and then rethought like over and over again until the glucose levels in their cells rise to an abnormal degree. Um. So then when they do go into the real freeze, Uh, they can remain frozen for months at temperatures as low as zero degrees fahrenheit, which is pretty cold. Um. And the high levels of glucose that they had started building

up from the thawing refreezing thawing refusing process protects their cells. Uh. It keeps the water inside the cells, and it keeps the cells from bursting, and so they are sort of alive and instance spended animation. And it's funny because like I saw a video of one of these frogs, like someone pushed it. I hope it wasn't the documentary makers because that'd be mean, but hopefully another animal just pushed it and then like tumbled down. It's just like frozen solid.

It looked like a fake like a frog statue. Yeah. So you know in Austin Powers, how like after being frozen for so long, like the first thing he does is like pe a lot. That's what the frogs do they pe out all of the excess glucos and then hop off to the nearest like to go shag some some other frog. It's like sex. Yeah immediately it's been long enough. Yeah, I think I've been frozen for months. Firstly,

I just really need to pee. Then I'm going to get some So then this happens every year, like they just go through the cycle of like all right, time again to freeze. Yeah, every every winter. I don't know how long these frogs live, but probably a couple of winters. They've seen two winters. But it's like a repeatable sort of action. It's not like you froze yourself once no more, yeah, I think so. It's like the process they go through is just like they're not damaging their little bodies that much.

There are other ways to keep yourself in suspended animation. So one of my favorite animals are the little water bears. Yeah, a little tartar grade. They're also called moss piglets. I like that name, moss piglets. Like that, it's cute. They've got so many cute names. I know, tart Grade is kind of a cute name. It is, and they are sort of cute. Depends on like the photograph taken of them. Some of the photographs are like the electron microscope imaging

of them. It's really cute. They just like look like chubby little like bear worms. They have a lot of legs and stuff, but they're sort of chub z and stuff. And but some of it like a close up of their faces, like because their mouths look like little butt holes the aspect but hole for a mouth. Um. So they're microscopic animals. Um. They are less than a millimeter big and they can just barely be seen with the human eye. Um. So the tartar grade turns itself into

a mummy. It dehydrates itself uh and does like a self embalming on its internal cells, organelles and membranes because this is a tiny but it is an animal, so it has a little organelle um. And it coats them in a special sugar gel called trahelos. And it is effective enough that labs have revived tart grade samples up to forty years after they have gone through this self

mummification process. Reportedly, I don't think this has been replicated in the lab, but like samples of dehydrated tartar grades were taken from one year old museum moss, and we're successfully revived. Must be a real like Jumanji situation for these these little moss picklets are like what do your is? I guess they're not socializing much with like modern moss picklets and all their iPads and their twitters. They're just

all these old moss picklets on this moss. So maybe they're like the Amish to other moss picklets, where it's like you just suddenly have this whole society of antiquated tartar grades. So Cody, it's time to go to Imagine Nation station all board for a fun time. So would you become a brain in a jar? We're kind of touching on this earlier with the whole like preserving the just the brain space typically, but just like just the brain,

not even your whole body, just your brain. There's like this idea that like if you can preserve the brain, that's essentially what you are. It's just like the brain. So like maybe you could be put in a robot body, or like if you can keep it alive, you know, then like you can get put in the next Frankenstein. Right, there might be some sort of preservation of intelligence and consciousness that it can be transferred, right, if you can preserve it well enough, I would consider it. I got

to hold a human brain. It was donated for learning. Oh sure, I assume assume that you got it through some sort of legitimate channels. Yes, I have not done brain crimes. That's that's what someone innocent of brain crimes would say. It was weird brain and steal a brain. Come on in my hands, come on, powerful, for I held the entirety of a person in my hands. I didn't like it, I believe you. When I held the reesless monkey brain, it was a different how many I

held a lot of weird stuff. I've held deep sea anglerfish. Okay, well that's not a brain fish. I've held a fish. A great story. I have held dead birds and brains. Um. Yeah, the reesless monkey brain was less creepy. It was more like, wow, this is interesting. It was also smaller and like, you know, you're like, oh, this is like an animal brain, like a human brain is like that's gotta feel very creepy,

and I don't like it. Yeah, it was. It was weird because it's like you're like, well, obviously this isn't the person now, Yeah, and it just feel it feels weird. It's like I don't like it's like sort of like firmish. That's what the texture. Well, it was preserved in formaldehyde for a long time, so it's like different texture than brain actually is. Obviously it's lost all the color because like a live brain is really colorful. It's like red

and pink and purple veins and blue veins. Like it's pretty in a way, I guess if you ignore all the context um, but like the human brain is beautiful. So imagine that your brain is kept alive but without your consent. I have not agreed to this. You have not agreed to this, and your brain is totally preserved and kept alive, and your you can't do anything, like you can't like flagellate your brain. Still, you can't communicate, flick their hands away, and just how even if you

weren't using experiments, which would probably be terrifying. It's probably why they have my brain. But like even if you're just left alone, like that would almost be worse because you have no connection to the outside world. You have no sensory information, you can't feel your body. Maybe you have some like phantom limb going on, because that does happen when you lose a limb. You just wouldn't experience any external thing and you'd just be kept on limbo.

And if you were being experimented on, maybe that would be something of a relief even because you'd be feeling something, although you'd have no sense of like why it's happening when it's happening, and you wouldn't have, yeah, the ability to like perceive or react to anything or have a sense of even time. Right, Like you're completely at the mercy of what they decided to do with you. And I just hate that, Like I'm not breathing right now, I should breathe. That sounds terrifying. And if you get

an it's right on your brain. Their brain doesn't have any nerves, so you wouldn't wouldn't, but they they'd be like poking, prodden you and like sending currents through your brain and pain essentially like occur in your head, like you have nerves that are communicating to your brain and saying how this hurts, and then your brain tells you,

like you feel hurt now right, that is bad? You You shouldn't touch that fire, stop it right now, which I do a lot, Like I'll touch a hot pan and I'm like, my brain is, like we've been through this before, you know, one of the first lessons I tried to teach you. Yeah, this is like the first thing we went over and I told you it was bad and you keep doing it? How many years has it been. We'll just we're just gonna take your brain out and put that because otherwise, um, but I just

it really creeps me out. Yeah, I think, uh I would, Yeah, I would hate that because I wasn't even thinking like, oh, I'd be like conscious, right. I was like, oh, yeah, you know, put my brain in whatever, and like I'll just like exist, but like it would be you'd exist, Yeah, and like how much of your conscious like how much

of it would be you? And like, even if it's not entirely you, it's still an awareness since I don't, well, good news good this sea and I say goodness is badness and just trying to trying to sugarcoat it a little bit, like at this point, do you need to We've gotten this far just like off, we've broken you down. Uh. So it is becoming more of a reality than it used to be because scientists have successfully kept alive the

disembodied brains of pigs. Um. So it's not just like happening in the basement of you know that really quiet guy where he's like, he seemed like a nice guy and he's just really quiet and goes down to his basement with a bunch of pigs, keeps to himself les. Yeah, No, this is a Yale neuroscientist nead system. The pig brains were retrieved from a slaughterhouse, so they didn't kill the pigs to get their brains. They just like, like, you guys aren't using those brains, are you? Um uh? And

they are pumped with artificial blood. Brain X, come on, could you try a little harder to sound less like the evil company in a horror movie like we we've invented brain X cut to zombies everywhere, Brad Pitt looking stern um. So they brought the pig brains back to life for up to thirty six hours, and so the researchers reported that there was no evidence the brains had regained consciousness. But there's no test for consciousness, Like, there's no definitive I mean, you can kind of do things

like you know, searching for electrical signals. But it's not foolproof because like there was this guy, Martin Pistorius, who I think he may have gotten meningitis or terrible illness that affected his brain, and they said, oh, he's effectively a vegetable. He's not conscious, and he slowly regained his consciousness, so it was true. He had lost consciousness for a good you know, he was in a vegetative state, but then he started to regain and but his body was paralyzed,

so he's like locked into his body. Everyone thinks he's not aware, like not conscious, and it took a long time. He was in that state for years, and then he finally had a nurse who was like, I don't buy that he's not in there, Like she felt like there was certain eye movements that he did, certain like things in response to her. It's like, really sad because often you'll think that's happening with someone, but it's sort of just your own interpretation. But in this case, he really

was there. He was and he was trying to communicate, and eventually he was able to find a way to communicate with the nurses, and then they were able to develop tools for him and he's like gives talks now, like he like uses one of those, Like I think

it's eye movement to text things. And it's just really creepy to me because like you could like have a brain and be like, well, it's not conscious, it's not alive, and then like what if it regains its consciousness eventually or like because you're presumably not constantly monitoring it for electrical activity, like there could be brief moments or like

minutes where it's back in there. But if you think this is only a problem for pigs, hold onto your brains, but Cody, I of course do not think that that's where it ended. The researchers say this technology could be adapted to human brains and are hopeful that it could be used to study diseases like Alzheimer's, which cannot be

studied from dead brains. I have thoughts and feelings about this because like, on the one hand, like my grandma had um dimension, I know how awful that is, And of course I want there to be research into Alzheimer's and dementia because it's just a devastating thing. But also don't want a human brain to be tormented. We can't be sure it won't be Yeah, what, like what's the line there, and like what what are you doing to

the brain and how is that? Because if you're if it is not a dead brain, because you can't study dead brains for this, then it's alive and then it's some form of consciousness. So you have, like you were describing that terror of being like just a brain is alive and conscious and experiencing these tests in some sort of way, one would assume because it's not brain dead. Yeah, I guess the counter argument would be, like, we can keep individual cells in the brain alive, but that doesn't

mean the synapses are firing. That doesn't mean that what makes that consciousness is still there. But I would feel a lot more comfortable if we had a better working

definition of we're getting there. But it's just like I still don't know, and yeah, even this guy who like slowly woke up over time, like you aren't safe for sure that the tests you're doing are not not on a person that can sense these things, right, And I feel differently about this versus like say taking someone off life support, because in that case it's like, well, you know the family's decision and hopefully you've talked about it with your family member, and you're doing it according to

their wishes and your wishes, and I don't think you should. It's like, oh, if there's a tiny chance they're alive, you cannot like take them off life support or something. I think that should be very personal decision. But it's different when you're like forcing someone to be alive. That's almost more responsibility because you're potentially forcing them to exist in a situation that's horrifying. Yeah, it's arguably worse. Even

if you consent to it while you're alive. You would never be able to like be like hey, actually this sucks, stop it right. Yeah, there's there's no like clause of like I changed my mind or like this is I can't indicate that I don't. That's why, like earlier, when

we're talking about like would you freeze your brain? Would you want to even transfer your brain to like a robot or whatever, which sort of leads to like the concept of like just like you could be alive forever, like your consciousness could continue forever if you want, but having some sort of kill switch seems necessary for that, like,

because the forever is the terrifying part. I would maybe want to try it if I had like an out like nope, I'm out right, like yeah, a nope button and then maybe like twenty years later it flips back on You're like still no, you know, okay, you're gonna shut you down again because it was a black mirror like that or something, yeah, where yeah, consciousness was sort of kept in these little hard drives. Didn't like that an uplifting one though, it's one of the few. I think.

I think was that the Black Museum one. No, uh sanin peril Oh that one, Yeah, that was nice. That was nice. No, I'm thinking of the one where you're trapped in a inanimate object and it's awful and I hated it. That was so. There is a philosopher and neuroscientist named Antonio Dimi Massio who warns that the experience

of a reanimated brain could be deeply disturbing. As we m that makes a lot of sense, and he he says that without the feedback loop between the brain and spinal cord and signals from the body, a normal conscious experience may not be possible. So he's even going beyond just like the horror of being like kind of stuck in your brain. He's saying, like, there's like part of your brain is kind of in your spinal cord and in your nerves and your body. Like a lot of

the processing your consciousness isn't just a floating brain. It's like feedback the rest of your body and experience. The equals consciousness as opposed to Yeah, and like even if you're like visually impaired, hearing impaired, you can still have a happy consciousness. Or if like say you're paralyzed, you

can still have a normal consciousness. Like even if you're very impaired, some of your sensory organs are impaired, there's still some connection to the outside world, Like there's something there. But without like a spinal cord, without that kind of like feedback, it's just yeah, without those systems and the back and forth, it would kind of probably make you go insane a little bit. Yeah, I mean, like the Martin Pistorious, the guy who was like locked in his

body for years and couldn't communicate. He talked about how like he was very depressed for a long time. Of course she would be like, my god, but he just describes it as something very unpleasant. But for him there's like a light at the end of the tunnel where like the promise of actually being able to communicate, because even that was he was connected to the world anyways.

Like it was just like I can't really communicate, but you still have things around you and people that you recognize and are trying to communicate, which is also terrifying. Like being locked in your body is terrifying, but this is like being locked in. Like it's different, and it's very very disturbing. I get a sleep, which is not a good time. It's not great. It's not great. It's like where you kind of wake up and you're getting

sensory information but you can't move. Yeah, and kind of put that do that not like on purpose, but like you but like it's like a step for for lucid dreaming. You can kind of put yourself in that mindset like and it all it does take is just lying on your back hand like arms by your side and just look up and close your eyes and just stay still. That sounds not fun. It's not. I've tried it a couple of times. It's very not fun. It's sort of

in between sleep paralysis and dreamlike state. Like your dream is that you're exactly where you are, and I want to dream things like I can fly and punch people. Yeah, I think that's a step towards that, but that first step is very unpleasant. Yeah. Maybe, like if you were a brain in a jar, you could just do lucid dreaming to the max because you would have no external stimuli to wake you up from your wonderful dream where

you can fly and punch people. That's true. Yeah, maybe it's just a really fun dream constantly that you can never escape. Before we go, there's one more tale of mad science, but this one leaves me a little more optimistic. U C. L A has developed a biomaterial gel that is showing some promise in helping mice regrow their brains after a damaging stroke. The brain, though able to make continuous new neural connections throughout our lives, can't regenerate like

other tissues when it's damaged by stroker injury. The afflicted areas can't regrow. Often, recovery from stroke means that other unaffected parts of the brain are picking up the slack, owing to the pretty adaptive nature of the brain, but in severe stroke, when damage affects key areas or is extensive, this may not be possible. That's why the news of this brain gel is so exciting. It's been shown to actually allow for the both of neuronal connections and scarred

damaged areas of the mice brains. But as intriguing as it is, it also raises a question. If you could regrow your brain after extensive damage, would you still be you or would this new brain be a unique individual. I think we'll start finding some very strange but important answers to the nature of consciousness once science advances to the point of regrowing damaged brains. Well, So, Cody, you got anything else to plug, sure, watch my show if

you like it. It's about the good news. Uh. It's called some More News on YouTube the podcast you mentioned Even More News. My Patreon is a thing that we do. It's just patreon dot com slash Cody Johnston. UM. If you want to support us to make more often longer shows, UM, that would be great. And I don't know my Twitter it's dr mr Cody's d R M I S T E R C M D Y and I hate it, but it's not gonna I like your rants. I know they're probably not good for you, but we all benefit

from them, that's what I hear. Yeah, I'm happy to have help in that capacity. Well, that's that's great. And I've I've seen, of course the some more news and even more news, and they're both great. Highly recommend you guys go through stuff so we don't have to shaving years off our lives. Um and you can follow me at Katie Golden on the Twitter or at pro bird writes uh And I would definitely suggest the latter because it's more fun being a bird than a human sometimes

it really is. The Oh yeah, our twitter is some more news on twitter Twitter account as well. That's good. Yeah, terror from the person, But you've got to compartmentalize a little bit. That's the takeaway from this episode. Compartmentalized, shove it in their lock it tight, don't think about death, ignore the stuff that bothers you do it. Good job, everybody. M