Don't Boop These Snoots!

does a kangaroo become your Kanda Doom? Joining me today is the Internet's zoologist TikTok Star and author of the book one Hundred Animals that Can backing End You. Mama, do welcome. I just want to say that was your radio voice. That was amazing. I want to be able to do that one day. Well, but thanks for having me. This is really exciting. You're very welcome. That's about for my radio voice. The rest of the show is just in my normal voice, because uh, I don't have written

out for me what I say. So, Yeah, I love your content. I love how you make evolutionary biology relatable, exciting, fun and scary. It's it's definitely the kind of thing I'm super into. Well, thank you, I really appreciate it. My whole thing without what I do is I kind of wanted to make the type of content that I

myself as a kid would have really liked. Um not necessary for people that don't necessarily watch the hour long documentaries or they're not exactly Animal Planet like junkies the way I was I they can still get something out of the content because of just the way I present information.

I feel like it's entertaining, it's funny, but you can also come away and with it and learn something and you know, have a bunch of things you can like take to your friends and start conversations and you know, just being able to foster an interest in the environment the way that I do. Yeah, I think that's kind of the main goal of like the platform that I have,

and that's been going pretty well so far. I think it's the absolute best use of TikTok because tiktoks have very addictive but I love just having these little, like little cookies of information that you get and there it is. It does remind me of when I was a kid and i'd watch Animal Planet, one of my favorite shows. I think was like the World's most Extreme and they do like a countdown of the most extreme animals, and

that was always so fun. I watched that show religiously me too, just every day after school, and it was like, it was so exciting for me. And so I love how you capture that excitement of like looking at some of the most intense animals that that blow your mind that they even exist. Honestly, Yeah, even if you watch that show and you watch my content, you can definitely see like where I like took inspiration from it, Like that show was. As a kid, I wasn't really allowed

to watch TV on the weekdays. I was a rule, but I was able to get around that because Animal Planet Discovery Channel it's technically educational, so um, I was able to get away. So I was watching The Most Extreme all the time I had. I even had blank CDs and I had my mom burned like eplisodes on the disc, so let's watch it whenever. Yeah, I love that show. We would have been friends in school because yeah, that I was all about that show. That was amazing.

And so today we are doing kind of the most extreme animals in terms of how surprisingly deadly they are. I mean, these are not the deadliest animals in the world are the most dangerous. These are animals that you would not think are as dangerous as they really are. Animals that we love, that look innocent, that look beautiful, and definitely don't seem like they would pack the punch that they really do. Yeah, definitely. I feel like everyone

can easily identify what animals are dangerous. Aligns the tigers, the bears. But a lot of times these animals that people like kind of take for granted that people just assume because they're cute, Um, they kind of put human characteristics onto them. The answer size them and to be fair, I do that a lot of my videos. But I feel like when people like take that like out into the real world, that's when people like really get hurt.

Like I don't know what the exact numbers are, but I know the animal that causes the most like injuries um in America. More than like the cougars and the bears, it's like bison because people will walk right up to these bikes and these two thousand pound bison because they're like gossile, They're pretty common around people. If you like respect or space, people will go right up to them and take pictures of them, and then at least once a year somebody to get sent to the hospital because

they get gored and just things like that. It's like, um, it's fun to like free people out with animal facts, but just also to like make people aware that you know, these are still wild animals and you know you wouldn't say like that in that like an animal went crazy, it just did what it yeah, exactly. Yeah, And I think there is this misconception that herbivores are harmless, that only carnivores you have to worry about. But herbivores have

a tough life. They have to defend themselves, and so they're some of the most dangerous animals can be herbivores. I mean, like hippos are much more dangerous than lions, and they are herbivores, but they are much more aggressive, much more dangerous. You're much more likely to be injured by a hippo than you are by a lion. And it is, yeah, it is. It's just respecting nature, um, not always thinking you can like stroll right up to

an animal, pick it up, touch it without there being consequences. Definitely. Something I would always say is that like, when you're dealing with a carnivore, you have to you just convince it that you're not worth the calories. But for a herbivore, it assumes that you're trying to kill it, so it's trying to come after you first. Like that's why moose are like a pretty big problem, like more so than bears and wolves and cougars. It's the herbivores, like you said,

like moose and bison, and even like deer. There are a lot of people in the hospital and a deer sent them there. So you know, it's just understanding that these animals have been around for like millions of years. They have developed these like ways to survive in like pretty harsh climates. And well they're not exactly they're not like you can respect them from like a distance, but once you like enter, like they're like environment, you can

be conceived as a threaten. That's that's where things get bad for people. Yeah, yeah, it's all about respect. You always have to respect nature, respect dear, and they won't

they won't come hunt you down, find you. Uh. But yeah, so first we are going to talk about an animal that looks very harmless in fact, like You may be on the beach spot one of these and think literally nothing of it other than it's pretty and something that maybe you would want to collect as a beach comber, But you should never do that because they're extremely dangerous.

And these are the cone snails. They're one of my favorite surprised dangers of I remember learning about these a long time ago and just being horrified at the idea of them. So, cone snails are a group of beautiful marine mollusks with these spectacular cone shaped shells, and there are many different species. There's over nine hundred species. They're found in warm tropical waters all over the world. And

they look innocent, right, Oh, they definitely do. And I feel like just snails in general are just something cartoons teach a lot of people that snails are like harmless and slow and just. But these cone snails, one thing about them is they are what they are incredibly venomous. But it's not just one toxin. A lot of cone snails have different combinations of toxins up to fifty and like you said, there's nine hundred different types of cone snails,

so there isn't one specific venom that one uses. That's why if you get stung, there is really no anti venom. All they can really do is manage your symptoms and keep you from like, you know, like gets flatlining. But and to be fair, like the chances of you dying from a cone snail with like media medical attention, you're probably gonna be fine. But like, all they can really do is manage your symptoms and keep you breathing because

it's just so many toxins that they use. And another thing is they are ironically one of the fastest things on the planet. I don't know the exact number, but they strike faster than you can blink. They are incredibly fast because they obviously they can't move, so like whenever a prey item like a fish, gets anywhere near them, they have like a split second to like just ensnare

them and just engulf them. So that's what like, if you're anywhere near them and you think like they really, they can strike you faster than you even have time to recognize what's going on. So yeah, and it's incredibly painful that no one wants to do with that. So yeah, con ses, do you see them on the beach, do not do not pick. That's the problem, right, because they're so colorful, and a lot of people take that as

a sign to pick them up. Their color is designed to tell you not to pick them because anything that isn't trying to actively hide from you, there's a pretty big reason for that, Like the poison dart frogs. The color, they're not trying to camouflage. There's a reason why they're like standing up somewhere. So yeah, yeah, not pick them up. Yeah. Epi Semtism is when an animal has a bright color or pattern that is a warning to potential predators that

it is toxic, poisonous, or venomous. And yeah, these cone snails are indeed very venomous, and like you said, you know, they move slowly in terms of locomotion, but they are able to strike extremely quickly like some kind of gun slinger. And they are not like your typical innocent little snail, marine snail. They are predatory carnivores and they are armed

to the teeth. In fact, that uh, that injection, the venom that they do is a modified tooth that is turned into a harpoon, and it literally looks like a miniature harpoon, like a man made harpoon, just like tiny it's hollow, and it is attached to a venom snack and it shoots that out like you said, at an incredib dorble speed. It sticks into its victim, it injects the venom, and it uses this for both hunting and

for self defense. So when it's hunting, this is great because it basically, uh just ambushes its victim with this harpoon. It paralyzes it with these many like these conotoxins, like you said, many many different compounds. That's why it's we don't have a good anti venom, but a lot of these toxins are designed to like incapacitate its prey. So it basically, you know, just like freezes the prey and then that allows it to engulf it and eat it

and get that business done. And I love there's this technical name of the harpoon, which I actually just learned researching for this, called the toxic gloss and radula. It's a it's a name, but yeah, it it does have certain species of cone snails like I mentioned earlier, there are many different species, but the lar your ones do have enough toxin to potentially kill a human. Now, like you said, it's very rare. The cases where it has

killed people. It's like sometimes like a freak thing, like someone picked up I think two of them kind of held them up for a photo and they both got them right in the neck and that was fatal. Um. But yeah, you do not, especially with children. That's why. Yes, yes, the smaller you are, the faster it's gonna get through your blood stream and it's higher concentration. That's not good. Um. But yeah, even if it's not fatal, it's very painful. So you do not want to, uh to mess with

these guys. So the the method of action of these conotoxins are like a lot of neurotoxins. Each species has its own fun cocktail of deadly chemicals, but it will sometimes block the receptors of your neural cells or sometimes interfere with nerve channels, which is bad for us in terms of remaining alive or not being in extreme pain.

But interestingly, the cone sales can also use different cocktails depending on the situation, So like defensive harpoonings, the ones that were probably more likely to receive are going to be designed to be more painful, whereas hunting venom can actually include like pain killing properties and paralytic because they don't want their victim that they're hunting to freak out. They want them to just like go still become subdued

as quickly as possible. Yeah, their whole thing is just just incapacitating you as quickly as possible, even if it doesn't necessarily mean killing you. It's the same mechanism as a like box jellyfish or like especially that you're canji, which people can automatically identify as dangerous. But with the box jellyfish, they can't afford to have their pretty struggles

since they might snap one of their tentacles. So they're just laced with all these millions of staking cells like harpoo likes things, cells that inject this neurotoxin that will paralyze you. That's where the intense pain comes from, just to like have keep their prey from struggling. And it's the same thing with the combe snails, since they really only get one shot to like subdue their prey. If the prey breaks away, then there is no second attempt

and they have to find somebody else. So it's really designed to just just take their prey down as quickly as possible. And that's where like the pain comes in. And that's why depending on where you get stunned, Like if you get stung on the hand or the leg,

you'll probably be fine with medical attention. But if it is one of those rare cases where you managed to get stung in the neck, that's where you can like that's where they're first of all, that's incredibly painful, and once the once that venom gets anywhere near your heart, like, that's how you can go into like cardiac re But of course those are like really extreme cases. A lot has to go wrong for it to get to that point,

but you still don't want to take that chance. No, no, I mean, like the like you said, even if it's not fatil the pain alone should be enought to stop you from picking up these guys, because it's not not something new. I mean, it's like if you look I'll include this in the show notes, but if you actually look at that um the barb that they shoot out it does it looks like a tiny weapon and that goes into your skin. So that is and then on top of that the painful venom. It's not something you

want to mess with. But there are medical uses for these cono toxins because it does uh interact with neural pathways, with pain pathways, often in a bad way for you if you're stung by one. By modifying these cono toxins, they can actually potentially be um a pain reliever. So there are studies going on to see like using not necessarily I'm not saying like, hey, it's going to be a pain reliever if you inject yourself with it kung

snails natural toxins, that's not true. But by studying these toxins figuring out how they work, researchers can actually derive potentially pain killers that would be able to block or interfere with pain receptors, which you know, there may be some discoveries in terms of pain management thanks to the cone snails. And like you said, it's about just being

able to isolate the pain killing properties. It's it's pretty interesting the way all these applications for all these like different venoms that normally you wouldn't want to touch at all, Like I was reading the other day, like with box shelly fish. Historically people have been trying to isolate certain properties of their venom to create like a form of botox of all things like from one of the most venomous things on the planet people trying to use it

to I guess look younger. So that's always interesting, I do. It is something about humans, isn't it. We find something in nature that's like incredibly dangerous or deadly, it's like, how can we capitalize on this? Like should I stick this in my face? Should I put it in my mouth? It makes you wonder about the first person I ever tried it? Yeah, yeah, I mean like there are a variety of things that are good, like you know, like spices and stuff, hot peppers, and you wonder about the

first person who like put that in their mouth. Aiden It's like, oh this is bad or actually maybe good. It's funny because I'm pretty sure like the whole reason behind like the spice of certain things it's to be a deterrent to keep animals from eating them. And then we came that we like the pain. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. That you know, the spices of like a hot pepper, it's it's a deterrence for like insects or other animals that would eat the peppers. Um. But humans

are like, hey, this is great, I love this. Give me more pain than they didn't. These plants did not calculate that humans are so massochistic that we would intentionally inflict delicious pain on our mouths and then they have no answer for that stuff. But we like them so much that it ended up being good for them, or well, I guess neutral for them, because we kept we we started cultivating them, so they did end up surviving, at least in a form that uh that we find delicious

input on our food. So we're going to take a quick break, but when we get back, we're going to talk about a animal that is very jumpy, but that doesn't mean it's intimidated by you. So one of the most iconic animals in the world is the kangaroo, and they're they're such a goofy animal. I think like they've got these long ears, these big feet, they hop around.

They're associated with Australia, and they're this big marsupial. They're so they're so strange and funny and wonderful and cute too, Like they've got these kind of cute faces that they seem they don't seem like they would be dangerous. It seems like you could open a beer, throw an arm around one and just have a good time. Yeah, kangaroos. I have a theory of working theory about kangaroos, and

it's that they have gotten cocky. Basically like Australia doesn't really have a dominant apex like a predator or at least a land predator. I mean you have like dingos impacts and you might have large monitor lizards, you have your going this, but there isn't like a large big cat or there isn't like anything like that. So these kangaroos are kind of I guess they're like they got

drunk off success. They didn't really earn once you get like especially the big bread kangaroos, the ones that can be six ft tall, nothing can really you know, affect them. So now they just I don't know, I just see so many videos of kangaroos just starting problems completely unprovoked, like they're honestly like what deer are here, That's what kangaroos are in Australia, only they actively seek out cars.

Like I think I read something about maybe nine out of every ten animal related car accident in kangaroo was caused well, I said in Kane group in Australia was caused by a group, and a lot of times they just walk away from it while your car is just like done. For insurance from like in cartoons exactly, you know what, there has to be kangaroo insurance down There's no way they don't prepare for that kind of thing. I mean, there's Australia is so full of these dangerous animals.

I can't imagine they don't have different speed like insurance for many different species, like this is for kangaroos, this is for getting a koala dropped on your head and scratching your eyes out. There's got to be insurance for everything. There has to be. I mean, even like something like there are rushtail possums. They become like invasive in certain places.

And every once in a while something a picture will go viral of one just breaking through the wall and sitting there like I've seen like pictures of just their polishes hanging out a dry wall. Or in one case this was really funny, one broke into like I think it was a bakery and they found him like in a bosom, and you was just that picture. It's the it's I've already won. You can't take anything from me

for I am victorious. Yeah, I love that picture. That's like I feel like that is an embodiment of my attitude sometimes where it's like, as long as I have a pastry, no matter what has happened to me that day, it's like if I get some pastries in me, it's like you can't win bad luck. Like I've one today. I ate a bunch of pastries and I'm covered in it. I love it. There his eyes at all and I couldn't even see his people when you can see it,

no remorse, remorseless pastry thief in my hero. But yeah, so so kangaroos are I love your way of phrasing it. They have kind of grown too cocky or maybe cocky enough because they are the largest mammal in Australia. They're also the largest macropole odds, So macropods are these large marsupials like kangaroos, wallabies and possums and um. There's actually a recent news story about a man who quote unquote owned a kangaroo was keeping a wild kangaroo as a pet,

and this kangaroo actually killed him. And I think that it is I mean, it's sad when I hear this you know, I don't. I feel bad because I think that if people were taught more, learn more that like you, really, if an animal seems okay, like a wild animal doesn't seem on its surface that dangerous, that does not mean that you can turn it into a pet, because that is going to, you know, potentially be quite dangerous for you. And this is not This doesn't happen very often, so

kangaroo fatalities are relatively rare. The last reported attack was in nineteen thirty six. Um, So they don't they don't want to murder you, or at least they don't try to murder you that much. I can't say what they want, but they will do it if they feel like they must do it. So yeah, keeping a wild kangaroo as a pet not a good idea. So this kangaroo that that killed this man was a So it was a

western gray kangaroo and a male. So males are gonna be in general, a little more feisty than the females. Females can be feisty, especially when they are protective of their joeys, But males, I think, are the ones that tend to just kind of randomly seek out confrontation. Yeah. See with male kangaroos there the whole thing is they have harems and they have to fight for control of the harem. And then if you lose, then you don't you lose the right to like reproducer. There can be

really intense competition. Even if that competition isn't there, that instinct always will be. So if it sees you as a threat, like it really doesn't take much for a kangaro to hurt you. A lot of people see the cartoons with you know, the kangaroo in the boxing ring. It's not the punches you have to worry for. Like, what they'll do is they have powerful forearms. They'll hold you in place and try to kick you. And they have a long, like sharp like middle toenail that can

easily disemvalue, can cut through flesh. They've killed dogs that way, especially since dogs are you know, lowered to the ground. So if it cuts like a crucial artery like anywhere near the neck, or if for a human, if it cuts like ephemeral artery, that's where you can get in a whole lot of trouble because you will bleed out. And that's like that's how they injure each other. Like,

kangaroo fights aren't just like punching and kicking. They cause like massive damage to each other where the loser often sometimes just dots, just can recover from those injuries. So that's like, that's why, well, kangaroo attacks on humans are rare. When they have been they can be pretty like catastrophic. Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean sometimes you might see like a photo of two kangaroos and it looks like they're hugging, like it's

like cute they're hugging. No, no, they are having a fight because the males will, like like you said, they'll hold onto each other, lean back on these strong, powerful tails and kick and scratch at each other. And they have claws both on their forearms and on their hind legs that they can use in with extremely powerful kicks and armed with a claw that can be very very dangerous and so like. So the western gray kangaroos, which I believe are some of the most common kangaroos in Australia.

They're fairly large. They can weigh around a hundred and fifty pounds or sixty eight ms for the males. Females are a little smaller um. Some have been known to way up to two hundred pounds or with Those are sort of the big boys, but so much of that weight is like muscle, and so much of that muscle is distributed to their extremely powerful legs. So that is

not something you want to mess with. And they are not even the largest kangaroo you mentioned earlier, the the red kangaroo, which is the largest kangaroo u and it is quite big. They can be, like you said earlier, six ft tall or one eight meters or even taller in in certain circumstances. They can weigh around two hundred pounds or nine and they can run over thirty seven miles per hour or sixty kilometers an hour, and they

have three hundred degree vision. So if you think that you can escape an angry red kangaroo, it's that you you could not. If they were determined to catch up

to you and find you, they definitely would. Yeah, And the scary part is the way their legs are in the way they like move, they actually expend less energy, Like the faster they're moving when they're just when kangaroos are kind of like at leisure and they're like razy, Uh, they actually spend more energy doing that than when they're in a full out bound going the thirty five miles per hour, they can like max out at um. Yeah,

and with the guy obviously it's like tragic. But with like a male kangaroo, like the like I said, the fights can cause serious injury, and no kangaroo wants to deal with that, So they have these ways to communicate that they don't want to fight that they're like kind of letting the other guy like you know, you're you're the alpha, that's fine. Uh. They'll do things like they will make Obviously eye contact is usually just bad with any animals, especially like predator based. Um, they'll try to

avoid eye contact. They'll do this thing where they'll cough, Like that's kind of like an admission of like submission where you're like basically giving up before you like can potentially get hurt. Um. So I'm guessing with this man, he raises kangaroo, and a lot of people raise these animals like humans, So things that like things like eye contact,

things like being loud. They they're doing that with these animals, and eventually, if that animal fels threatened and you do those same behaviors, it's going to see that as a threat no matter what you tried to teach it throughout his life. And I'm guessing I don't know the story with this man, but it feels like the kangaroo was like standing up to them. The guy was like not backing down in the kangaroo song as a threat and just did with like instinctually they've been doing for like

a while. So it's just it's sad, But those are like reminders that these are wild animals and they don't like not it's only a matter of time before they like revert back to like their actual wild behavior, right, and we don't speak their language, so, like, you know, you see this a lot in various animals. They don't

necessarily want to engage in conflict all the time. They will if they feel that they need to, but especially with like male and male sort of like rivalries, they will often have this like if the winner is really clear, this is when they can back down from a fight. Like if it's not so clear who would win this fight,

then you may have quite a violent fight. But if you have like a male who's like, oh, I cannot take you on, and I do not want to fight you, they have a communication system for that because it is costly to have a competition between two males. And yeah,

I think that probably it sounds about right, probably what happened. Uh. You know, it's like, especially if someone raises an animal from a uh, from a baby, like from a young animal, they may be surprised when that animal reaches maturity and their hormones kick in and their behavior suddenly changes because like, mature male is going to be much different from an immature male. I mean the same thing with female animals

in many cases. But yeah, once they reach maturity, their behaviors are going to be quite different, and it can be more aggressive because you know, this is the point at which they have to compete for females, and so behaviors you may have had with like a baby kangaroo with the joey that the joey didn't you know, get upset by the adult kangaroo may get upset by And again, if you don't know that much about kangaroos or you don't speak kangaroo language, then you're not going to see

that coming, that that change in behavior where they no longer think you're just playing around, they think that you're actually a threat or threatening them. Yeah, when a joey, when it goes from a Joey to a boomer, that's when that's when things change. That's when the picking order changes in the house. Yeah. Yeah, and it can be quite violent. I mean this is half, I would say, half myth, but there is a truth to it, which is the idea that kangaroos will try to drown you.

So I'm glad you I'm glad you brought that up. Yes, yes, So there's this, um, i don't know what you'd call it, old wives tail, internet rumor that kangaroos will lure you into water so that they can drown you, or lure a predator into water so they can drown you. The intention to like the luring part of like, you know, trying to get you to come in the water so that they can drown you. That's not true. Care as don't. They're as as um sort of pugnacious as they are.

They don't have like a premeditated murder mindset where it's like I'm going to get you in the water so that I can drown you. But it is true that herbivores have a strategy where they go into water when they feel threatened. And this is not because they're planning on drowning you. This is because often predators maybe don't want to follow you into the water. Like you know,

it's more difficult terrain for a lot of predators. They're suddenly at a disadvantage because you know, they especially shorter predators. It's like now you don't have any terra firma, any ground to like be able to stabilize yourself against. So a predator might just give up at that point. And that's what the kangaroos do. But if a predator does follow them into the water, they're going to defend themselves. And for a kangaroo, this may mean drowning that predator. Yeah,

especially as bipeds. Again, they can be pretty tall, so like and I think they're biggest predator might be dingoes, especially if they're like being hunted in pacts. So again, like it's a natural prey response to like retreat into water. Plenty of animals do it, buffalo like that, but especially

um with kangaroos, Like they'll just go to the deepest point. Now, if the animal happens to follow them into the water again, like you said, they'll use their forearms and try to shove them like underwater until they either retreat or they just end up drowning them. And that's why since they like had to deal with dingos for so long, they're basically what I called like dog racists. So like anything that looks like a dog, a kangaroo is probably going

to attack or attempt to drown. So like, if a kangaroo like runs into water, that's kind of its last stand because again it's not actively trying to like or people in like, because that's still bringing conflict to itself and no animal really likes that. But they do have ways to, like, um, defend themselves if they do get

falled into the water. But it does remind me of like this other myth where like the people would say that, um, well, for the longest people thought the komodo dragon it was the bacteria in its mouth that killed its prey, but really it's it's betom The problem is they do have like a septic bite, and what do buffalo do if

they've been attacked, they'll like run into the water. And then when you have like when you have this unclean, unsanitary water around this open womb, that's when they can develop like a bacterial infection, and that's when these buffal look and have these slow, painful deaths. And uh, that's how the commodo can end up tracking them, especially with their sense of smelts. They they're like leather blood outs. They can smell you at almost any point in the island.

It's they're actually they're legitimately terrifying. There's no point you can go where it come out. I will eventually track you down. But um, I think that's where the whole bacteria thing came from. But like almost prey animals have like an inclination to like get into the water, since most mammals have just the natural ability to swim, so they just feel safe for in the water. That's what they do, and it behooves. You're not to follow them in there? Yes, yes, absolutely, you know they come out

a dragon. Put it like that. It reminds me of the movie It follows just like this, this very like this slow and steady predator that's like inescapable. It's just tracking you and as soon as you slow down, it's gonna get you. It's so scary, it really is, because that's almost exactly how they operate once, like they think. Another thing is that people believe the komodo will bite once and then let you get away and then track you. Not really, because obviously if one komodo can track you,

a whole bunch can. The thing is they have the one bite, and if you do manage to escape, they have such a developed sense of smell that they can track you wherever, to the point where people would say, like women that are in their venturel cycle are they should stay inside if they're anywhere in Komodo country because they really can get tracked by a komodo dragon. And um, I don't know how often. I imagine it isn't too often, but there have been cases of komodos like digging out

human graves and eating corpses inside there like apex. So literally they can beat anything, like including each other, like to the point where young komotos will often hide in trees where adult komotos can't get them because adult komotos will eat baby komotos like without hesitation. They're like truly like they're pretty much like a relic from like back when we had dinosaurs and everything, especially with like Megalania. Megalania was just basically komodo dragon three times bigger. That's

truly terrifying. Yeah, that is, that is there's it's it's how methodical they are, how thorough they are. They're like the scariest serial killer where they can find you anywhere. They have a great sense of smell, and then they're so tenacious that they have the patients to continue after Yeah, it will be days, days, they'll come after you. Oh that's so scary. Well, we're gonna take another quick break

while I hyperventilate about Komodo dragons. But when we're when we get back, we're going to talk about actually one of the for me, it's one of the scariest animals, though I also love it um as. Yes, yes, it's I love them, but they terrify me in a way that I think no other animal really does. And so we will talk about that right after the break. So I finally got to see Nope, it's it's I don't know, of all the horror movies, I feel like this one really scared me in a profound way that other ones

don't really get at. I don't know. Maybe it's maybe it's because I love evolutionary biology so much and there are so many references to evolutionary biology in it, and it's like it like touches on my deepest, darkest fears. Honestly, it's the realism that really got me. Especially I don't want to give away too much to anyone who hasn't watched it yet, but certain things in that movie, so the scariest scenes those happened like in real life, especially

with one of the animals we're going to talk about. Yes, yeah, there have in some pretty horrific like attacks, and ironically you don't even see it in the movie, but like you get you see just how catastrophic that kind of thing can be. Yeah, absolutely, it's I mean, yeah, the the whole it does touch upon and I don't think

this will spoil anything, but it will. It does touch upon these sort of unconquerability of nature in certain ways where it's like we think that because we're you know, we have our human civilization and we you know, kind of have insulated ourselves a lot, we feel sort of all powerful in a way, but when it comes down to it, we are not. And that is a little bit humbling and scary to think about. So the most terrifying animal, I think, which is also an animal that

I really love, and that's chimpanzees. So they are they're adorable, they are amazing, There are close relatives, and they you know, are highly intelligent, and they're absolutely terrifying in a way that I mean, it's like, I guess it is because they're so close to being human that they're so scary, because there's a certain like with when you know, if a line eats you, it's just being a lion, it's

just trying to you know, get its next meal. But a chimpanzee, like they could be kind of sadistic in a human way, and that is there's something very uncanny about that. So they are they they they kind of scare me not you know, like obviously I I still really love them because they are they are incredible and incredible species, but they you know, in the same way that I love humanity. But humans can be the scariest things in the world to me. That's well said. I

definitely mean too. I love chimpanzees. I think they're really fascinating, intelligent, complex creatures. But uh, there's a couple like there's a few misconceptions about them that I feel like people kind of like overlook one is the whole people believe there's like this myth that they're like five to eight times stronger than any given man. It's more like one point five to time stronger. The thing is they have they're just riddled with extra fast witch muscles so they can

react faster. Um. There, they basically have four hands, like their legs function just the same. They're incredibly strong. They have a really powerful bite force. Um. And number two is that chimpanzees are predators. They're not like they're not like the her befores that a gorillas are that orangutan fans are. Uh. They actively hunt other animals like Columbus monkeys, and Columbus monkeys aren't small, they're like pretty big seeing them in person, bush babies, they've been known to use

spears to hunt bush babies. But yeah, and they hunt almost the exact same way. Well not, it is the exact same way we did. Like they have drivers animals that will the chimps that will go in and like freak the animals out and stape and then they have Yeah, they have got they have a chimp stations, specifically the more experienced ones in the group that will ambush the

animal and like just like cut off. It's cut it off its path, and once it catches it, they all like home in on it and just literally just tear it to shreds. But the part that really freaks me out about chimp's they will they can like commit calculated and coordinated acts of violence the same way humans do. Like, uh, it's rare for it to be within a troop, but that can happen where basically chimps are like people. They

form alliances, they form friendships, but everything is calculated. So if they feel like one chip might be a threat to it, especially in the hierarchy, because chimps are like male dominated, they can get they can get good with some guys in the truth, and they will jump this other chimp. And that's it sounds it might sound funny

the way I'm describing, that's literally what will happen. There are videos, obviously they're pretty graphic, but well of chimps just committing like acts of violence against their own, tearing them apart, and they don't just kill them. They know what's important to a chimpanzee. They know the same thing with a human. They know it's important to a human. So it's almost like they draw out like the way

they torture you. And that's why with chimp attack victims, the ones that survived that is, they all have the same like injuries. They have a disfigured face, they're missing fingers, if not entire hands, their feet. They go for genitals because they know that that's important. They know what that does, they know the implication of losing that. So they like if you see like a rival chimp that was attacked by other chimps, it's usually missing it's genitalia. And that's

just how it's just these guys can be. Yeah, yeah, I mean it reminds me of like human warfare. Like I'm trying to remember. I think it was some god it might have been some kind of Greek thing. I'm sure I'm getting getting it wrong, but there was something where there is some some ancient war and basically they cut off the enemies genitals to like prove that they had,

you know, defeated this enemy. And it's yeah, I mean I think that you're exactly right that it's the ability for these animals to kind of calculate things that is so unsettling. Like they, like you said, they can form these alliances so male chimps were arranged in this dominance hierarchy, with dominant males sometimes violently enforcing their authority, but sometimes the weaker males will form these alliances and to together they can take down a more dominant chimpanzee that otherwise

they would not be able to take down. Uh. And so they can like basically form a coalition, decide to either murder or intimidate another chimpanzee and enact that plan. Um. But they're also like kind of fickle, so they can back stab each other. So if a better opportunity arises, um, they can totally turn on each other. I mean, like, I'm sure the the drama that happens in a chimpanzee troop is something that could be put on you know, HBO. It can get very very messy, messy drama and also

very violent drama. You know, they are they are highly social, so they're not constantly attacking each other. There can be harmony, there can be you know, like they like to groom each other to sort of affirm social bonds. Um. But you know, they can be quite violent, and they can even be violent within the same group. The worst violence

is like out of outside of their own group. There can be these really really vicious I mean, they're it's basically wars, like wars with other groups over territory, just like humans do. So I would say it's like, you know, I don't think chimpanzees are evil, but they are unnervingly like humans. You know, there are so they're they're that kind of the capacity for violence and their motivations for it. Uh. It's similar to humans. Although I'd say humans, we uh

did evolve to become more gentle, to become more cooperative. Uh, And so that is that's good news for us, that that we are not quite so um grumpy, I would say, as chimpanzees are, which which is good, Which is probably one of the reasons that we have been so successful. Is that greater cooperation and more capacity for being gentle and less being less prone to fly into a rage

than chimpanzees are. Yeah. I think that's probably the most eerie thing about them is just that they share nine of their DNA with humans and you can see it. And I don't know, if you there, they will, like like I said, they'll commit these coordinated attacks against other troops if you see if they you see it, happen, like they walk in single file lines, and once they

leave their territory, they go completely silent. Every once in a while they'll stop and just listen for other chimps and try to gauge how many other chimps are in this rival group. And once the leader like says gives the go ahead, they just go in attack. They'll take like sticks and like bang them against the base of trees.

They'll scream and shout, trying to make themselves seem like there's more of them than they actually are, and they will specifically go after the children, and like it can get incredibly like grizzly, to the point where they will tear apart like infant chimpanzees and then just cannibalize them and just share them with the rest of the troopings. That part might not be too human or no won humans now, like they have theories about caveman and what their diets consisted of. I don't know if you can

talk about that here, but it's you'll see it. But like, yeah, that's the whole thing with chimp's And the thing is chimp's, like like humans, they have different personalities. They're not all like raising psychopaths, but like they are humans, but without the social construct, there is no jail, there is no like, there's just survival and act and just acting in your best interest, like not selfishness. It has like a negative connotation, but like in the you have to be selfish, like

in the wild. And that's what you see with chimps and the way they'll form these alliances, the way they can backstad each other, the way they can decide they don't like another chimpanzee. Like there was one one of the worst like chimp attacks that I'd like to seen, Like it was on YouTube. It got like taken down a while ago, but it was just it was it was a u within the truth too. There's just one chimpanzee. He just seemed to have the wrong like type of personality.

He was like very outgoing, very ambitious, but he also wasn't like it's weird to say people person but he wasn't great at forming alliances with the other chimps. But he was also acting like he was like higher up than he really should have been. They didn't like that, and one day, maybe like ten to fifteen of them just converged on him and beat him down. To the point where one of the older, like higher ranking mails stepped in and like stopped it. But by the time

they did, he was mortally wounded. It was clear and he wasn't welcoming the troop, and like two days later researchers found his body. That's that's not super like common within the troop, but like chimpa chip homicide is, like that's the thing, and it's really it's ugly when it happens that humans. You see just how strong and a motivated chip can be. Yeah, that is yeah, it's I think so. So wild chimps don't tend to attack humans. They are pretty smart in terms of avoiding humans because

we know we are bad news. Um, but captive chimps are the ones who are the most dangerous, even though like it's it's ironic, right because it's like, if we've raised a chimpanzee and like quote unquote tamed it, it seems like could be safer than a wild chimpanzee, but it's not because it's actually bolder because it's not afraid of humans, and it also has more opportunity to attack humans.

So so captive chimp panzees are actually quite a bit more dangerous than a wild chimpanzee, because wild chimpanzee is probably just gonna like run away from you. It's not necessarily going to want to. I mean, the chimp attacks do happen in the wild, but they generally want to avoid people if they can, if they feel that they can. UM. But yeah, the these scariest attacks have been from pet chimpanzees. And I say pet in sort of the loosest possible

version of the term. I do not think that pretty much any primate really can be kept as a pet. Like yeah, I mean, strictly speaking, people do it, but it's not you know, they are not domesticated animals. Uh, their lives with a human aren't going to be fulfilling for them. And it is especially for something like a chimpanzee that's very smart, has a lot of social needs, and is very very strong. That's like a recipe for disaster.

And you mentioned something earlier that I think is really interesting, so that the that chimpanzees, No, they're not like five times as strong as a human, but they are pound for pounds stronger than us, and they're about one and a half time stronger than us. Um even though they're only like there maybe about five ft tall, a hundred

and fifty centimeters tall, maybe fifty pounds. They're not that huge. Um. But you said you mentioned those, um, those fast twitch muscle fibers, So those are the more powerful muscle fibers, but they fatigue more quickly, so they are able to kind of go into this like a berserker mode, whereas humans don't have as much density of these fast which muscle fibers. RS are actually a little better for endurance, which has actually suited us really well, It's been very

successful for humans. UM. But yeah, we don't have as much of that like sort of instant access to you this like incredible strength that chimpanzees do. So so yeah, and if it's a chimpanzee versus a human, um, often the chimpanzee will come on top um and it is it is very scary, like they are capable of a lot of damage. And yeah, it's you know, like like you mentioned, I think when these famous cases of chimpanzees, like they can you know, destroy your entire face, amputate

your hands. Uh, it is, it's very it's upsetting, and I think it is it is a kind of harrowing reminder that these are not pets. These are not fun, goofy little like trainable, you know, circus pets that we can just have and feel this sort of entitlement over. Yeah, I feel like that's something people forget a lot. Like they are predators, Like owning a chimp is really no different from owning like a grizzly bear, Like it is

an incredibly intelligent predator that cannot be tamed. And I think the most famous chimp attack of vault was definitely what happened with Charlotte Nash with Travis back in a thousand nine. People that don't know there was this lady Santra nats Um No uh Sandra Herald. She had a chimpanzee, Travis, that she raised as a baby. Um just she raised him as a human, uh, taught him. He knew how to drive cars. He would drink out of wine glasses

with drink actual wine. Actually, um, it's part of the family. But the thing with chimps is um they are in terms of strength, they are about they might be the same or slightly inferior to humans up until about five years old. Once they start to hit like puberty, especially the males that's when things change. They become a whole lot stronger, their attitude changes because around that time they probably be fighting for like their place in the hierarchy

in a troop. Uh, that's when they're like, um, there's that's when their sexual maturity hits. UM. So with Travis, he was raised around humans his entire life, never saw another him, so he's not engaging in any of those like natural instincts that he still has. He obviously there's no female ship for Travis and UM. Eventually, unfortunately, Sandra, his owner's husband, passed away. Uh. He was affected by that.

Travis he exhibited signs that he was like depressed and like breathing, but Sandra was also depressed and she couldn't really take care of Travis the way that she was before. Also, he had some incidents outside where people believed it wasn't safe for him to really be outside, although since he was around and everyone was familiar with him, nobody thought to have him taken away. So now he was confined to the house. After seeing after being allowed to be outside,

he was confined into the house. He was well overweight UM eventually that he was put on Zanex to deal with like his u Yeah, emotional issues that he had. It was it was a matter of time and like that, like he was going to it was gonna happen eventually, and unfortunately it happened with with Charlotte Nash and like the worst possible way. But like with chimps, they have

two ways of really hurting you. One is like, well, I guess three, but so one would be just bludgeoning you with their arms, and again there's so much stronger than people, so like it. It feels like imagine if somebody hitting you full force, like not holding back at all with their like four arms or their elbows. They're like kicking you and that's like multiplied because this ship might actually be trying to kill you. Two is that

they'll bite. They'll bite at the face. They have powerful again their predators, they're not just herbivore, so they have teeth designed to like tear through flesh and they'll do that. They go for the face because they know that's how to really conflict damage. Sometimes they'll go out of their way to gauge your eyes out, uh. And then three would be they have hands and they'll just tear at you.

With chimps it's like, like you said, you made a good point that chimps they have all the muscles, best switch muscles, but they're not really built for endurance. You can see that in those differences and how we hunt. We were long distance runners, so we would just chase prey and no matter how far I would run, eventually we will catch up. It would get exhausted, and then we would hunt them. Chimps focus all their energy into one like explosive like charge to like catch their their

prey off guard. So with chimps, a lot of times they'll attack you and then kind of just rest a little bit while you're there, and then especially if it's if it's a group um attack, one chip will like make this a long call and they'll like kind of just initiate it all over again. Like these chimp attacks can if there it's not put down, it can last a very long time where it's not killing you, but

it's like slowly chipping away. It's taking time to like it's it's just it's truly awful and it's like um, yeah, it's it's it's it's never pretty when the chimp's involved. And for the chimp, it's like a miserable way to live. You know, if there's something that intelligent, Like that's another conversation you can have about whether chimps really can be

in captivity. It is an animal that intelligent, that has a level of self awareness, and the fact that it's like behind a cage or like it lives a certain way, and it sees people in rats with people, but it's like from behind the glass, it's they're probably there's probably a lot going on in its head to the point where like now they they're there's actively like trying to act out or they're engaging in like delicious like acts,

because that's kind of what boredom can do. That's why I like animals in captivity are much more dangerous than once in a while, Like workers are the best example. While dominant apex predator like of the world, like not just the ocean of the world never killed a human in the wild, multiple like um kills like captivity. Same thing with tigers. Most tiger deaths these days, Well I guess that might not be true, but like there's a

high density of tigers in America. I think there's more tigers in America than in the rest of the world, Like combined. That's where like most of her especially like more captive than yeah, than they exist in the wild. Yeah, I mean it is. I think it's also I think that's part of the reason. I mean that I feel that it's it's not just fear when it comes to chimpanzees.

There's something deeply unsettling about it. And I think it's the empathy that I feel for them, because you know, they have, like animals have minds, chimpanzees have a very very intelligent mind and so they can have you know, mental health um needs, and if those mental health needs aren't met, they can suffer mentally. And then but on top of that, they don't have the same moral reasoning that humans have. And so a chimpanzee who is suffering mentally,

like I think it sounds like Travis was um. You know, they can act in a way that is, you know, basically an expression of their suffering or their anger or whatever. But they don't necessarily understand exactly what they're doing, so they don't necessarily have the moral reasoning of thinking like oh, I'm you know, I'm gonna like do something bad to

this person or something. They don't necessarily you know, we we don't know how Obviously we can't step into the consciousness of a chimpanzee, so we don't know exactly what they're thinking. But I don't think that they have the same meta cognition that a human would. And so there's something like I don't know. I mean, I can't say

anymore without spoiling the movie. Nope, but I would say, if you have a capacity for watching horror movies and this idea of you know, of having empathy for an animal that's also kind of scary, like, you should definitely watch the movie. But it's yeah, it is. I think it.

It's such a it's such an important thing to respect animals in terms of not just in terms of how they can be dangerous towards us, but also in terms of like their their emotional needs, their emotional state, and that an animal who does something that's terrifying to us, like maulling a person, like, well, let's find out why they did that, not blaming the person who was mold necessarily.

But there is a problem I think when we um when we try to, when we have sort of the hubris to think that we can incorporate wild animals neatly into our human lifestyles that I think we need to kind of kind of face and realize that it's not a wild animal is intelligent, they have a mind, they have emotions, but they aren't necessarily they're not you know, little furry humans that we can like you know, bring into our our society and then like have you know,

have them perform tricks for us and you know, have as a form of entertainment. Yeah. I really think it just goes back to people just placing human traits on animals, and a lot of times people will do that's kind of rationalized exploiting them, whether it's exploiting them as a house pet that has no business being there or in Travis this case, he was used in commercials, TV shows things like that. These animals don't really have the understanding

that you do. So like if an animal is upset and like you're reacting in a certain way, it's not gonna rationalize that, Okay, it's you know what I mean. So like that's how these attacks can happen. So a big example that I'd like to use, are you familiar with Grizzly Man? Yes, yes, I am Timothy Treadwell. Yeah, So basically Uh. The important thing is he wasn't like a zooalgist or a biologist or anything. I think he was like a failed actor or something. He went down

like bad path. One of his friends introduced him to the landscape of I believe it was Alaska. He went to Alaska and he witnessed brown bears, and it was kind of like this epiphany that he had that he wanted to study these bears, which is great, but the way he went about it, he would uh but I think it was about thirteen years that he would just go camp out in the Alaska wilderness. He would get really close to these bears and he claimed to like

have their trust, that they had an understanding. And again, you can't really you can't tame a predator. You never you never can. But he got away with it for so long that people thought there was some truth to like what he was doing. And I will give him credit for he was He actively tried to be an advocate for these bears, trying to have people see them

as other than like killing machines. Um. But eventually that's kind of that went like he went so far in that direction and he kind of like did a three sixty and then like kind of like made it worse for them. So basically like he started getting cocky with these bears. He was getting really close to bear cubs, really close to them around um. I think that's what when it happened. So like bears, obviously they have to hibernate, so they have to they have to basically go on.

They pretty much bulk the most part they quoth were they've taken as many calories as possible. Obviously resources, the competition for resources gets really intense, so that's like the worst time to be around like in bear territory, especially if it's around males. So he went around that time right the maybe two to three months before hibernation were there at their most like irritable when people told him

not to. Not only that, like but he also he placed his tent around a well known bear trail to the point where if a bear wanted to access like uh, I guess it was like a stream where they can get sam and it would have to walk right past his tent. I think he even brought his girlfriend with him, and she was afraid of but he's been he had been doing it for like thirteen years. I guess she trusted him, so it was I remember the day, it was October five. I think he sent like either a

message or a call whatever. He said to a friend talking about the landscape. He was like, yeah, the bears are great. Uh they're acting a little bit weird, but I'm gonna stay here anyway. This is amazing. The very next day they found their bodies halfy and uh the first part was right when the attack started, a camera

was rolling, the legs was on. You can still hear it, so like, there was this six minute audio of this man being eaten alive by a grizzly bear that I can't remember if it was a bear that he actually knew of her. It was just some freaking it was. I think it was a bear he was not as familiar with, but he still tried to approach. It was not yet another sort of mistake he made among many, Yeah,

among them exactly. And uh yeah, a six minute audio of him just slowly that because that's the thing with bears, like big cats, still kill their prey, usually take it somewhere where they don't have to worry about competition from other predators. Uh, Animals like bears, like wild dogs, hyenas, they just tear into you, like whether you're alive or not. And that's what happened. Like the bear incapacitated him and just ate him, and his girl was there. She's screaming,

So what happens next The bear comes after her. And the audio never was released. People say they've heard it, they've heard re enactments re enacting. Yeah, because I think I didn't. Wasn't it or Herzog who like listened to the audio and decided because like he was listening to it for the family to to try to determine whether they should hear it or not, and he was like, nobody should hear this. It's it's like this would be too traumatizing. So it's never been Thankfully, you know, it's

never been released. I think that's that's a merciful thing for the family not to not to have that out there. But god, yeah, it's I remember when I read about that, I had nightmares that I was like listening to the audio, but of course it doesn't exist, but the imagination can can fill in the blanks in a very terrifying way.

I'm not sure if this was true, but I heard a report saying that he were a cant of saying that he kind of wished that he had released it just to like have people understand just what theirs are capable of, because I feel like people still haven't really learned. Um. But ultimately, like, and this is where I kind of have to take back the credit I gave him. He said he tried to be an advert for these bears. All he did was like he got himself like killed

by a bear. So and what happens to the bear that they had to hunt the bear down kill it, And now people are hearing about this horrific bear tyme that happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because once a bear like kills a human, they it's like, well, you the bear can't see humans as a source of food and go and hunt someone else down. So then they have to go and euthanize it. And it's I mean, it's just it's bad, bad news all around. I mean, it's such

a horrifying thing to happen to anyone, um. But yeah, I mean it's just we we I think it is this like sense of we're so insulated as humans because we've protected ourselves with our society, with with all of our sort of innovations and our intelligence that um, you know, I think that sometimes that can lend itself to this idea that we are not prey anymore. We're not we're

not in danger. You know, We're not you know, nothing could view us as pray, right because humans were like on top of the food chain and that is not not true at all. Yeah, And whether it's with Travis or the bear, or Siegfried and Roy and their tiger montoc or it's just there's like a level of arrogance that some people can get where they feel like they have complete control over this wild animal. And really it's like we are where we are at because of intelligence.

Mostly because of intelligence. There's obviously physical attributes that we have, like being able to run for a really long period of time, being able to I think we might be one of the no we are We we can throw things with accuracy that other animals don't have, just based on like us having thumbs and hands and the way

our shoulders are placed. But ultimately, like one on one, we can't do anything with these predators, especially something like a bear or a tiger or a chimpanzee, things that hunt for a living, you know, So there's like it if you can raise them as a baby, you can try to, like you can't. They're not human though, And all it takes is like one moment of them referting

back to their predatory instincts. It doesn't even have to be a predator, but just that's when like things can happen, and ultimately that animal gets put down because of it, exactly in our language doesn't align with them. Like for chimps, like with humans, eye contact and smiling is a nice thing. It's you know, showing the other person like, hey, I'm friendly,

how's it going. If you do that to a chimp, you're basically telling it like hey, you know, like you man like, and it's like a confrontation because like eye contact and showing your teeth is very confrontational for a chimpanzee. So like you can't walk up to a chimpanzee act like a human and have it understand what you're trying to say, what your what your body language means, because

it can mean something very different. And I think in cases where we successfully have pets, like with dogs and cats, these are cases, and I mean especially for dogs, we have selected over thousands and thousands of years and co evolved with them to the point where our styles of communication can interlock. So like we can communicate with a dog when we see a dog. We although sometimes people can mistake body language of dogs, for sure, a lot of the dog's body language is readable by us, and

they can actually read our body language fairly well. They can read our facial expressions are intonation. So it's like, this is why dogs and also cats, you know, are quite good pets, whereas something like a chimpanzee, a grizzly bear, a kangaroo. These you know, they can't really you know, they can only be tamed inasmuch they can be habituated to humans, but they can't really be tamed. They can't.

They are not pets. Uh. And you know, we we can't make them into pets unless we had some kind of like you know again try to uh selectively bread them over thousands and thousands of years, which I don't see the point in doing that either. Yeah. My favorite line in the entire our movie, no spoiler, but he's um. They said something about you can't tame a predator. Is the best you can do is enter an agreement with one, right, And I think that's something that a lot of people

forget and that's when these incidents happen. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, man, Yeah, I think it's it is such a good movie for evolutionary biologists, but it's also such nightmare fuel because like all of it, it's just because they did their research for that movie, I can really tell. So it's yeah, it's it's very it's very good. But because they were so thorough with the research and it is so realistic, that is it's it makes it quite scary. Oh definitely.

So um before we go. At the end of every episode, I'd like to play a little game called Guess Who's Squawking? It's a mystery animal sound game. Every week I play a mystery animalsound now called gets who Squawking? But it can be any animal in the world, not necessarily a bird, any animal. Uh and uh, you the listener and you the guests, try to guess who is walking so uh. Last week's hint was there's nothing deadly or sinful about

this cutie. Uh. And this is a sound. I honestly had no idea this is what this animal sounded like until I googled it. So here it is. Ah ah, Well, can you guess he's making that sound. Ver if I heard this, is it? Ah? I get hints. Well, the hint is there's nothing deadly or sinful about this cutie. Um, do you need any anymore? Like? You can ask me a question and I can answer, is yes, not domesticated? Is it? Can I hear it again? Yes? You can.

It is good job you are. You're like an encyclopedia for animal knowledge, so I'm not surprised that you got this. But yet I was wondering where I heard that from. There's compilations of like babys off like it's like pre serotonine. I loved it. I recommended anyone yourself. It is iron ear medicine for the soul. It's wonderful. Yes, I had no idea this is what they sounded like until I just out of curiosity googled, like, hey, what does slaw sound like? These are baby two toad Slavs. They are

slaves found in Central and South America. I don't believe the adults make these sounds. I think this is just the babies because they are bleeding for their mothers, so they spend their first nine months of lives constantly attached to their mothers. And so when they're at like a rescue rehabilitation animal center, they will often be given teddy bears so they have something to hold onto to comfort them,

which is really adorable. Also a little sad um, but yes, they will make this bleating noise until somebody picks them up or they get to cuddle a teddy bear, which is a door rble and makes me want to cry. And that is your wholesome fact for the week after this, after this show where we talked about animals eating your face, adorable baby sloth. So there you go, the shot and

then the chaser. Congratulations to Julie P, Lily H, and Grant W the three fastest to correctly gives sloth, although maybe I should have rewarded the three slowest guessers given that you know it's sloth anyway, suggestion next one should be Koalas asked them play play what they sound like and then see if they can guess it, because if they've never heard it before, they will never in a million years guess that the huntingly, angry banshee screaming of

a koala. Yes they are, they are. They're interesting. I understand why people like why Australians have the drop bear mythos just based on when Koalas are screw mean angrily. I was gonna say, there's like a hundred different types of cryptids in Australia and I'm so sure half of them originated from koalays. Yeah. Absolutely. It's like, how probably all the cryptids in the US are either sandhill cranes or coyotes with mange, and that's it, like all yours disappointed.

I remember as like, in like seventh grade, I saw that video that went viral at the well, I guess at the time of like that chupacabre. Then I revisited it because I randomly this was curious about it ten years later and I was like, oh wait, it's a coyote. Coyote with maine. It's always a coyote with maine. Pretty anti climatic. Yeah. Also, sometimes listeners send me in pictures

of like is this, like what species is this? Like I found this and it looks like some kind of you know, novel species in North America, and it's like it's either coyote with mange, maybe a fox with mange. When an animal gets mange and it messes up there for it can make them like almost unrecognizable and look very very creepy. But unfortunately it's just, you know, just a sick animal. It's nothing scari or creepy, just sad um.

But onto this week's Mr Animals sound. The hint is they sound like drunks on land and alien spaceships in the sea, but they're always chill. Mm hmmmm h m h m hm. That's them on land if it's the obvious, So now this is them under the water. Yeah, I have actually thought honest, so they're amphibious. Then, yes, they were both. They spend time both on the land and under the water. Oh, they are mammals. Yes, so that's another free hint because the obvious one would be whales.

But then you said on land, so huh interesting Uh okay sometimes cel c Line, I'm gonna say, oh it is you're absolutely correct. Okay, okay, okay, because that's okay. Yes, So you'll the listeners out there, you'll have heard a cute little duck quack over what Mama do said. But he did guess it correctly, and you'll have a chance to guess it. If you think you know the answer, you can write to me at Creature feature pod at gmail dot com. But I am very are impressed by

your animal sound guessing abilities. I don't think I could have done that. Thank you. Took a couple of guesses and a lot of hints. But uh yeah, definitely definitely in an interesting one day. You would have to hear it before to like guess that, Like I would not have been able to guesst that. Just no no I and like I had a listener from I think as fair as Jabber who came on and recommended this animal noise as one that is is quite strange, very otherworldly.

It sounds like underwater, they sound like aliens, like alien spaceships. It's it's kind of haunting in a way, but definitely is uh. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this part, so I guess you could like leap this out, but it's actually, uh, they used that to like find like the little like breathing holes because they can like freeze. Oh maybe I should, Well, basically they use them to find breathing holes that they might not have access to because of where they live. So it's like I can't

describe it further without giving it away. You you just have to go see it on the next sure and then YouTube it because it is freaky. Yes, I mean, I think this is a hard enough sound that getting some more hints is definitely fair. Um. But yes, it is. It's it's it's such an unexpected sound. Also, I'll say, for such a cute animal where it sounds like there's a there's there's a haunted ocean, but then you see them, it's like, oh, you're just a little cute, aren't you. Yeah. Well,

thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate having you on. You are an incredible font of animal wisdom. Uh And I think people, if you like this podcast, you will definitely like Mama Dow's TikTok. He's also got a book out called um Animals that Can End You UM, so if you like to the topic of this episode, you will definitely like that book. Thank you so much for coming on. Where can people find you? They can find me on TikTok dot MGI underscore ninety seven.

They can find me on Instagram at the exact same user name. I also have a YouTube channel. Realizing not a lot of people know that UM or at least not as many people that know me tikesfer Instagram, but I do have a YouTube channel where I make longer form content casual, geographic and uh yeah those are that's pretty much the big three TikTok Instagram in a YouTube. Yeah, thanks so much for reaching out to me. By the way,

it's also stoked to be like fight it here. I'm so happy to have you on this is this is wonderful. This is so fun. Uh and thanks to you guys for listening to the show. If you're enjoying it, uh, do leave a rating or review. I read all the reviews. I appreciate all the writings and as always, appreciate you guys listening. Um and uh yeah, if you if you think you know this week's mry animal sound or you have any questions, you can write to me at Creature

Feature Pod at gmail dot com. I'm also on twy are at Creature feet Pod. That's f e a T not e E T head is something very different. Uh and thanks to the Space Classics for their super awesome song Exo Lumina. Creature features a production of I Heart Radio. For more shows like the one you just heard, visit the I Heard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or Hagus what where have you listened to your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday,