¶ Intro / Opening
We have clay objects from at least 30,000 years ago that are identifiably female .
But also , like you said earlier , it's just you find certain things boring And I think , why not go for whatever you find more stimulating ? You know , it's your time , it's your energy .
It's just fascinating how you can give a pound of clay
¶ Exploring Clay Art and Creativity
to 12 people and you'll get 15 different things , and I just find that absolutely fascinating .
But a lot of people say to me things like , oh , i can't draw , i'll never be able to draw , and things like that . But you could if you practice . If you were going to try and build a website , you'd have to practice , or do it or learn , and it's exactly the same creativity , isn't it ? Yeah ?
Hi , i'm Claire , founder of Creativity Found , a community for creative learners and educators , connecting adults who want to find a creative outlet with the artists and crafters who can help them do so with workshops , courses , online events and kits . For this podcast , I chat with people who have found or re-found their creativity as adults .
We'll explore their childhood experiences of the arts , discuss how they came to the artistic practices they now love and consider the barriers they may have experienced between the two . We'll also explore what it is that people value and gain from their new found artistic pursuits and how their creative lives enrich their practical , necessary everyday lives .
In this bonus episode , i'm joined by Creativity Found Collective member Kelly Druitt and friend of Creativity Found , carol LeMune , as we visit the Pottery Studio of fellow Collective member , debbie Page . Kelly lived in France but was visiting the UK and , of course , we wanted to meet up for the first time in real life .
Since Kelly could easily get a train from Bristol , where she was staying , to Reading , i knew I had the perfect location for us to meet and have a mini creativity catch-up . In this episode you'll hear about how Debbie makes her moon jars and what they are , as well as a little pottery history plus details of Debbie's teaching .
We also start plotting our next creativity catch-up , featuring a few more members and their creative classes . So how do you build Debbie ?
Right , how do I build ? I'm a handbuilder so I can throw . I teach throwing . I find throwing boring , so I hand build . So that means I pinch clay , i coil clay , i also roll out slabs , occasionally as well . What's coiling ? Coiling is where you get a piece of clay and you roll it into a sausage .
Oh , and then you can build like that .
So do you want to have a feel Like instant litter ? Some people refuse to take it . fair enough , but anyone who gets it is instantly squishing it , They don't just go they instantly squeeze it , and there is something really fundamental about human beings manipulating what's in their hands , and this is easily manipulatable .
I'm trying to stop now . I thought I was going to get to head off .
No no , keep going . So a coil of clay is formed by I try to . This sounds daft , but we have clay objects from at least 30,000 years ago that are identifiably female . It isn't just a blob that someone's got . Oh , there's a fingerprint there . They must have manipulated .
They're called the Venuses of Wischendorf , sort of very , very Eastern Europe , germany , hungary sort of area . They're about so big , big head , no face . Obviously they can do faces , i can't do faces . I'm with them on that but they've got hair you can see they've got hair , big boobs , big pregnant belly , so obviously female . and there isn't just one .
Even if we only had one , that wasn't that person's first rodeo on that piece of clay , they'd done it before , because everything's in proportion . So , 30,000 years ago you did have saber tooth tigers and mammoths running around , even in Central Europe . You know life expectancy 30 , 35 And they had the time to look at a human body and go .
That's spine tingling stuff to me . But they didn't have tables . So in Africa they actually coil . Yes , Natural . You know there is something , whether you believe in sort of you know , cultural memory and all that sort of thing .
Yeah .
You know , something really weird can happen when you give someone a piece of clay . It's the same , actually , if you give people a stick . They will Bend it , break off bits , twist it , pull off the bottom . I mean , they're manipulating it As well . So it's not just clay , but you know , clay is up there .
So we These days , because we have tables as technology which would freeze people Table is a piece of technology , so you just coil them out and then , as you say , you put them into Mounds . Like that you get them into two halves .
So you use a mold ? I wouldn't just start Anything .
I mean this , these , this one here I've made . There's two pieces of clay wearing a weighing 160 grams each . I don't need a mold for that size because it fits my hand . Yeah , i'm using clay of 250 grams per half . I need a mold Because my hands are big enough to be , So it's size .
Yeah and then when you've got the two halves and you stick them together and you blend across the , the drawings , yeah , and then what I do to get rid of all those lumps when you can smooth it over your finger than a stick Takes forever .
but going back to my table technology , if I roll it gently , if I roll it gently , you can see all the core , all the lumps and bumps . Appearing , yes , disappearing . It is also compressing the clay .
Clay works best when it's really squished And although it would have been squished a bit when I was rolling , it squished a bit more when I was Join in the sides . There's nothing like a bit more compression to really make it even Stronger . And then I made this yesterday evening .
It would have been shrinking Clay shrinks and it means that although it's not airtight , the air pressure in there is a little higher than the air pressure I hear . So when I push I can push a little harder than if it was just a Flat piece of clay and I don't make as much denting .
So I can use that and really get rid of all those naughty little lumps and bumps that are happening , and then I can shape it . So you know , my moon jars around , but they are . I'm not bothered if they're Perfectly spherical .
Yeah , something nice about .
Yes , yes , the creator , the moon jars come originally from Korea .
It was more squishy than I was expecting .
It looks really fine .
It looks like it's a whole filled thing , which I know it isn't , but even so it comes up lighter and then actually you can feel the movement Yeah .
In the ball of clay ? Oh , yes , how fun , are they ? It's what you expect and what it really is .
It feels like an Easter egg , almost That kind of thing .
Yes , Yes , just passing a ball of clay around .
So the Koreans have always been incredibly good potters and in about the 1650s they finally came out from underneath China's yoke and had a big renaissance of cultural craft , arts and things , and they devised ways of throwing porcelain pots that I can't put my arms around .
Bear in mind , there's a 20% shrinkage rate on porcelain , so it would have been even bigger . They threw them in two halves and put them together and they've come up with three main shapes that are traditional , spherical , which for some reason this year are more spherical than normal .
Yeah .
And these you call the moon jars . These are called moon jars . Originally they were called wait for it , big branding opportunity here in Korea , big jars 1650s . Marketing didn't really kick in Later they started to be called moon because they were white . And Koreans also have a cultural influence of the moon . The moon is very important to them And they .
I understand that . For me too , i've got that . So they're called moon jars , but they can be spherical . Teardrop speaks for itself . All my favourite wobbly . How wobbly . Wobbly is an official shape . I mean . You know , that's brilliant . It's brilliant for two reasons .
First of all , it means I can make moon jars , and they're a bit wobbly , they're still moon jars . Second , a culture that allows for the fact Yeah , that is Yeah , not perfect . Yeah , but it has got to have a . Let me go for it anyway .
We just need to interject and Karola's going to tell us what her name is .
My son's name is Moon .
I didn't know . Oh , that's brilliant .
So you had to come today . I did . But , you didn't even know , did you ?
I didn't know it was moon jars . It was your friend . You just got done . Just now you can go . No , karola's name is Moon And Karola .
So it's definitely her wonderful , or the moon's , the moon's alive , the moon's The planet was brilliant .
See , I'm not very good at getting that very long in the air .
No , this is the problem with . There is no drop in her clay , if you were . This is the problem that you find they only go so long . You can make pretty much any shape you want from this . Because the air pressure is slightly higher inside . I could tap this into a cone . I could tap this into a square .
If I had the inclination at the time , i could make a dodecahedron . Yeah , what's that ? 12 sided Okay . The best sort of thing , which I'm not going to do because that's , you know , boring . So you know it's a very adaptable technique And I'm teaching this technique is the basis of It's . Obviously it's decorative . It could be a little moon jar .
If you make it square , it can be a little pot . You can cut the top off and make it into a lid . You could top the top third off and make it into a cup . You can make it into a sort of teardrop shape and that's really good for things like penguins , yeah , and birds and stuff .
You could stick a handle here and a spout there and a lid there and you could go to teapot . It's a really adaptable starting point for people to actually start when they're starting down there . Pottery world .
Yeah .
Pottery still looks down on hand builders . If you're a sculptor , they understand that . You know you take bits and go and you slap it on . But they do look down on pinch pots , on coiling and stuff .
So when you call yourself a potter , then that's on the wheel .
Well , no , i call myself a potter because I work with clay . I make pots , you know . You can take it back to its meaning a potter makes pots But throwers . It's interesting , many handbuilders can throw a bit Really good . Throwers can rarely hand build . It really is . I mean , i can remember going and seeing a very famous potter called Matthew Blakey .
He did a brilliant project . He went to every county . He got funding to do this . He went to every county in England and Wales and took clay and made a pot and a glaze from that clay .
Put it in a big touring exhibition . Brilliant idea , love it .
Yeah , and he came to do a talk about Halfway Through and he was telling us about this particular clay fad which was awful to throw with . So I said , well , why don't you hand build it ? And his face was like I'd asked him to kill his firstborn . I'm only suggesting another alternative making method , you know , really just lighten up .
He could have said well , no , i want them all thrown , because then they're all thrown , yeah they're all hand , but yeah . Yeah , But it was like really And it's real shame because this came first . Yeah .
This came first .
You know , throwing was invented about 5,000 years ago .
You wouldn't get those shapes with throwing You would , you would And I could get those shapes .
I can get those shapes , That's not a problem . It's just how I choose not to work . It's the same way you say you work occasionally in Equinix . You might use work something else . You've got to use something else . You know our creative outlets have to take different formats because we're all different people And mine is using clay without technology .
I mean , I have turned up to a demonstration and I'd forgotten my tools . All I had was my chopstick and I made teapots all day just using my chopstick . So you can make really technical , highly technical things with very , very little . I didn't even have to have the chopstick . I could have made it without .
But now we know why David was chopstick .
The hair came first , not the pot .
But also , like you said earlier , it's just you find certain things boring And I think why not go for whatever you find more stimulating ? You know , it's your time , it's your energy , absolutely .
Absolutely . It's just fascinating how you can give a pound of clay to 12 people and you'll get 15 different things , and I just find that absolutely fascinating .
Even now . I've got a little bowl , We've got a little square . I put mine down . What is that ? A sandwich , it's a I forget .
It could be a little bit . you know I've seen people try and you know a couple hundred quid of .
Yes , it's abstract .
It's actually Beauties in the heart of the heart . I'm still learning how to work this stuff , and I've been playing with it since I was 13 years old . Okay , it's been absolutely Forever learning , forever , learning . When I'm teaching I get I do get a little bit niggled when people want to be able to to master something straight away .
They don't have the patience . You know , when I tell them it took me three years to learn to throw And , believe me , i was highly motivated to learn to throw . I then went and did a city and girls diploma and came out a mould making hand builder .
Yeah .
With craft and , i'm sure , art , paint , paint , you know , brushes and pencils and things you have to put the time in to get it back , don't you .
There is something about , i think . Sometimes people get impatient because they don't enjoy the process , they don't enjoy the doing , and I think that is like Either you have that interest or that it somehow stimulates you , that you want to like continue doing it , or if not , then yeah , it's not your thing , you know .
But then don't make it wrong that you're not an expert after day one , yeah , But a lot of people say to me things like oh , i can't draw , i'll never be able to draw , and things like that . Well , you could if you practice . If you were going
¶ Exploring Creativity and Learning Processes
to try and build a website , you'd have to practice or do it or learn , and it's exactly the same creativity , isn't it ?
Yeah , But the only thing we never have to learn to do is to breathe . That's instinctive . We have to learn to walk . We have to learn to feed ourselves , to brush our teeth , comb our hair , everything . We have to learn how to do it . So you know , give yourself a break , sort of thing . When I teach you , i don't .
If someone comes in and I want to throw , i get a bit strict and say no , i want you to hand build first week , because it's going to be six , seven weeks before you get anything that you want to keep . I'll want you to keep it that way , because at least then they can take something home with them .
Yes , achievement .
On week three or four , whereas they will not be taking anything home .
the first time if they're throwing . How often do you do the workshops ?
Well , i teach regularly . I teach at Woodley Hill House , which is part of Bracknant Wokium College , i teach in Reading And I teach at East Hendred It's a little village just over here , 34 outside Oxford So , and they're sort of very general .
There'll be some hand builders , there'll be some throwers in there , And of varying amounts of time , so for complete beginners to people who've been potting for 20 years . So a whole range of interests and skills and sort of making methods .
But then I do one day workshops at a couple of different venues And I do those sort of when I'm not doing my general term time stuff because I was in the day basically . So holiday times .
I'm going to try and get one of those workshops at some point . Well , i will , harder living in France , but if you're doing , one day ones .
There are potters in France that will do them , but they might just do them in French . Yeah , second language is quite difficult , but anytime you've got anything technical there , it must sort of make it .
It's just less enjoyable because you're thinking about the language as well . As well as the .
I think there are one off ones when you're doing something in the holidays on the chat group and the membership , how long ?
are you here for Only until Tuesday ? Oh right , Okay , so .
I've got a thing at Ardington on the 20th of July . Can't remember what I'm doing , might be teapots .
I don't know what you're doing , Jimmy .
I feel like I did read you were doing a teapot one too . Yeah .
Awesome . We should try and tie it in with a printmaking with Jennery as well . Who could you have quite ?
Yeah .
That would be amazing , creative to follow teachers .
Yeah project .