¶ Late-in-Life Creativity
My guest for this episode is a member of the Creativity Found Collective , a promotional and networking membership for artists and crafters who share their creative skills with grown-ups through workshops , online courses , products and kits . There's a link to their page at creativityfoundcouk and if you , too , would like to join us , visit creativityfoundcouk .
Slash , join us .
Do you know what ? I'm not going to do this anymore . I can get myself out of this situation and get my head off that . I'm going to make a life change . Irresponsible people call me . Collective is one of those things where the creativity evolves because it changes On men . Of course , the great pottery throwdown happened On men . They're all changed .
Anybody that's self-motivated can do it .
Hi , I'm Claire , founder of Open Stage Arts Drama and Singing classes for adults . Lots of the adults who come to our classes and online events are looking for a creativity that has been put on the back burner during their sensible grown-up years .
I have found this to be true among other creatives , too , so I've decided to find out more about the painters , photographers , writers , printmakers , actors , crafters , teachers , musicians and more that have found or re-found their creativity later in life .
Today , I'm speaking with Peter White , who began studying for a BA in ceramics in his late 40s and , in 2021 , was a finalist on TV's the Great Pottery Throwdown . He has had an interesting and emotional journey in life and on the show , and is passionate about inspiring others to tap into their own creativity , no matter what their age . Hi , peter .
Hello Claire , lovely to meet you again .
And you . Lots of people know you as a potter through your studio Wobe and Sans Clay and , of course , from the television show the Great Pottery Throwdown . But it wasn't until you were in your late 40s that you were able to follow this creative path .
We'll talk about what you were doing before ceramics became your thing , but before that , tell me about your childhood and whether you had an arty upbringing .
Right , ok , claire . So I had quite an unusual upbringing . I had three sisters . My father was an engineer , my mother was a midwife and my father he worked for the space industry intermittently , and so it involved him moving around the world . So probably when I was eight or nine , we jumped aboard ship and we traveled around the world .
We ended up in Australia where we stayed in Australia for about four years , maybe a little bit longer . My father worked in Womera . I was always very interested . I was always painting and making . I was the child that took everything apart and put it back together , or mainly so , I think my sisters realised that I was quite arty . I went through school .
I was OK at school . I wasn't an A1 student , but I was OK . I had an art teacher called Mrs Brown who clearly thought that I had something to offer , and when I was doing my O levels and A levels at the time , I did the work for that .
What happened was Mrs Brown did a small exhibition for me and from that I was offered a place , an art school and a small bursary . I went home and said hey , dad , look , you know , this is what's happened . I'm going to art school . And he said no , you're not .
And you have to remember that back in the 60s and 70s your parents had a great influence and my father being an ex-military , being an engineer , my grandfather being an engineer , I was a little bit controlled , I suppose , by my parents and I can remember my father saying no long-air students in my house , no arty people .
I don't know what I'm missing about you . You're going to be an engineer , like me , and I've arranged some interviews for you . And I went , do you know what ? Fine , ok , and I wanted to tell Mrs Brown , you know , clearly she went . Well , you know that's a shame , but you know .
And so I went into engineering and I became an engineer , I did an engineering apprenticeship , I worked in the drawing office and I moved around and I did it wholeheartedly and with pleasure . But I still dabbled with art . I still , you know , made things , did a bit of painting .
So that was always there and it was always a little bit strange , because to be an engineer and to be an artist , that's that's quite a conflict of areas . And within my work , within my artwork , there was a lot of accuracy . Within my engineering work there was a little bit of flamboyance , so which used to get me in a little bit of trouble .
I worked for several different design companies and eventually I started my own business and purely off the hoof , somebody came in . The company was in Luton , in Bedfordshire , and we're quite near the motorway . And this chap came off the motorway and he just , he just stopped to the engineering company , for whatever reason , and asked us to do a small job .
That was my link to children's toys . He introduced himself and it was a company that were linked to Fisher Price and one or two other companies and we started making prototypes . I was in my element then , so we had the model shop and I ran that particular part of it . So I never sort of avoided the engineering side and I never avoided the creative side .
Since you're working with toys , did you have some creativity within that job ?
Well , that's an interesting one , because it's the nature of the beast , isn't it ? I don't know if it's the nature of the beast , it's the nature of me , where I would look at drawings and I would interpret the drawings , not necessarily how the toy designer would envisage it . But you also have to remember we didn't have computers .
Everything was done with paper , cellophane , fax machines . So I suppose for me it was great because I could deviate from the origin and when I made the models and everything I could add , I could change colours to primary colours and I would look at the target age group and then go oh no , that's not quite right .
Quite often I got away with it , which was quite good , because it became a situation where people began to rely on my knowledge and the fact that I did used to go a little bit off-peace , not always , but a lot of the time . We worked very well .
So you mentioned that you were dabbling with your own creativity at home as well . During this time , what were you doing ?
Right . So I love illustration . So I did a lot of watercolor work .
I did an illustration and I did one or two plants , the moulds and plants , the models , basically for the engineering side of it and also for the fact that I could creatively change mould and adapt things as I progressed when it caused , anything I drew or anything I painted went down into the family . And that still hasn't stopped .
You know , it still goes really quickly . But it's about having value and I've never seen a great value in my work . I suppose my belief has always been to share it . I mean , I can't keep all this work , so it's great to go out to friends and family .
I know that at that time you made your own wheel . Tell me about the wheel that you made .
Well , that's a really interesting one , because what happened was I had this engineering company , I had a nice house , I had a little workshop at the end of it and I sort of got this interest in pottery . I thought , you know , I'm going to have a go at this , you see .
So remember , there was no internet , there weren't a lot of books about that explained it . And so I thought , well , I'm an engineer , what I'll do is I'll design and we'll make a potter's wheel and I'll call the potter's wheel in my workshop and I'll throw pottery .
Now , I've never touched a bit of clay before in my life and what I did was I made the wheel , I installed it , I bought a cheap kiln and off I went .
So , you know , there are a few mistakes , of course , but I was producing work , I was making pots quite successfully , and a friend who was part of the engineering company that I had , he'd been a pottery teacher long time ago and he came out and he was looking at my pots and he said oh , that is fantastic , you know .
And he came one day I was on the potter's wheel and he said what are you doing ? What do you mean ? What are we doing ? And he said well , the wheel's going
¶ From Pottery to Teaching
the wrong way . And he said the average potter's wheel does about 250 rpm . And he said what's that one doing ? I said 600 . And he said it's like watching things in fast forward . And so we had this little chuck , and so then we changed everything . He stayed with me and he showed me the proper way to do it and then off I went .
Then it was fine , you know .
How different is it to throw in the other direction ? If you'd been got used to throwing in one direction , then the wheel goes in the other direction .
You know , that's like really strange because see , what happens is I'm right-handed , so my left hand goes into the pot , okay , and my right hand sits out , and then you marry like your two hands mirror each other , so you would pinch the clay .
You pinch the clay and draw the clay up toward the centre , but when it's going the other way , of course your right hand is in the pot and your left hand is outside . So you suddenly become ambidextrous , but by default . But I got used to it and of course , it being so fast , I was putting my hand in .
But what it meant was that when things went wrong , it went wrong really , really badly , because at 600 plus RPM , if that went a bit floppy , you know all the walls had a bit . I had a bit . You know I was eating it , you know I was wearing it , but it was crazy , it was good fun .
Brilliant . So you were 20 years or so working in engineering , but how did dabbling with clay turn into studying ceramics at BA and MA level , and do you think you faced particular struggles at university because you were slightly older than the other students ?
Well , do you know what age , once again , is nothing to do with this . I've always been a character where I've always got on well with young people . My grandchildren , you know my children think I'm worse than their grandchildren . I'm totally responsible . I love a lot of and I think for me I had a change in my life .
The business was doing really , really well . We were growing , the company was growing . I was spending all my time at work , out of work , 24 seven . It was nothing to do with earning money . It's something in our psyche about moving forward , about being successful .
And of course that resulted in the inevitable heart attack on Christmas Eve , which was good fun for the family . So that sort of slowed me down . But fortunately I didn't need surgery , that they sorted it all out and I was lying in hospital and I was analyzing .
You can only do this in like an unknown situation , like hospitalization , where you have a lot of time and a lot of thought . And I thought you know what ? I don't even like this bloke . And I thought you know you're building this business . You're sort of driving like a speed rope through the water . You know you're hurting people , you're just .
You know it's all about ambition . And I thought do you know what ? I'm not gonna do this anymore . If I can get myself out of this situation , this honest situation , and get my head off the bag , I'm gonna make a life change . And I didn't make a life change and I still got the business and I sort of virtually gave it away at you .
I didn't make hardly any money on it , but we were secure enough to carry on and I sort of I suppose the term I bummed about for a while , about six months . You know nobody's going . Oh , what are you gonna do ? I'll come down to my mother . You know . When I said , oh , got rid of the business , and she went oh , okay , what are you gonna do ?
I don't know . She goes oh , my , what , you know what her mother's doing ? She put her palms card down and so I thought do you know what ? It was my younger sister , angela , who said look , you know you're very passionate about art . Why don't you do something to go into art ? Go that way . And I thought do you know what I'm making pots ?
What I could do with it is looking at it a bit more in depth , Sign it up at Middlesex University , and that's where I did my BA with Honours and then went on and did an MA in connection with Tableware , and that's how it all came about , really .
And then , but I joined university and I joined with a group of very young people but they weren't all young and I sort of decided at that time that I'm quite okay with young people , I'm not down in the groove or anything like that , but I , you know , I sort of I think I've got an empathy . So it was okay .
I mean , I supported them , I cherished their young ideas , I challenged some of the non-conventional ideas and said do you know , do you realize ? You know ? But I tried and tried at all times to avoid being a mother hen . So that worked quite well .
And then , of course , when I wanted to do the MA , it was a more mature based MA , so it was a lot of written work and yeah . So that's how it all came about . And then I left university and then bummed about it .
So you didn't know what you wanted to do once the studies were finished .
No , irresponsible people call me , but it's not that , it's you know what . I still don't know what I want to do in my life . I really , really don't . I'm still . I'm really happy in developing my skills , developing my creative side . But somebody said , you know , my mother was alive . She said , you know , please , what are you doing ?
I go , I don't know , mum . You know , I'm just riding on , riding life , as it were , you know , with my children and my family . So yeah , so that's it really .
But you did start teaching . How did that come about ?
The teaching thing . How lovely was that . So , okay , so I got some friends who were teachers and they said oh , could you bring your wheel into school and do a couple of days teaching ? And so they did all the checks and everything . I went into these schools and I did more than a couple of days .
There was there two or three weeks at one school and the head was involved in a couple of these lessons as well , just for a bit of fun . And then he said to me he said you know , you have to talk about becoming a teacher and I don't need loads of all work . And he said , no , it's really easy , it's really straight forward , you'll be very good .
So , well , there's not lots of work you've got no , no , no , no , no , no . Oh , I kind of killed it . Well , of course , it's very difficult . You know , to become a teacher is quite hard . You're running essays about Piaget and you know , on ethics and all this , you think how did I get a voltimus ?
Once that was all over when I got into the classroom , then it all clicked again . That was something I found I also loved . So then I had the ability to teach arm design , I taught a bit of maths , I taught product design and then I taught engineering , so I hadn't looked like a gambit , that sort of ran , you know , with all the links .
You know I got involved with this school in a big way . I then changed schools . I joined a school in Middleton Keynes massive school at a cohort at the time of nearly 3000 . It was the largest school in Europe , had a lovely , lovely ethos where the children came in their own clothes .
They called you by your first name , which was a little unusual , but it worked . It worked very , very well . It had art college status . I was head of visual arts , we had a gallery , it was wonderful and it was fantastic . And I'm still teaching now . I only do two days now but I do product design on a bit of art .
It's a beautiful school and you know I love it . I love the school and you know the students are lovely .
Brilliant , you know . So , as well as teaching every week , there is also , of course , wobensan's clay , which is very much a family affair . How did you move from , as you said earlier , making pots for friends to starting a pottery business ? And , if I may ask , how do you work together with your family without falling out ?
I'll answer that one last . Okay , so just before I went onto the show I built a studio and it's only three and a half meters by three and a half meters . It's a wooden studio , but I backed it onto the front of our garage , so it's a modern house .
It's only been built 10 years , so it's like a cardboard box and they put these garages up where you can get a motorbike in , but you can't get a car in , where you can get it out . You can get it in , but you can't get out . Yeah , so we got the studio going . I then started making pottery .
I was making pottery , it was prolific and I think you know I was turning up to people's houses and they were going oh okay , hasn't got any pottery luck . No , I'm sure they both . But that's kind of how I felt and it sort of progressed from there .
So so what happened was my daughter , hannah , said look , you know , we need to be selling some of this stuff . That was the discussion on . Then , of course , the great pottery throwdown happened and then that all changed , you know .
So presumably that's been good for business .
It has . Yes , as a finalist in the great pottery throwdown , it's been good . I think people make an association that they like your work with your name on it and it's like . It's like the commissions that I'm doing . People are more interested in getting the name , your name and the date . Of course they want beautiful pieces of work .
It's like a combination of the both but , but what it has done is , I mean through through media and the television , I'm a face now and it's and it's bizarre because I'm recognized
¶ Pottery, Family, and Creativity
in in all food shops . I was when I'm shopping . Yeah , the one thing was like shopping , saying , oh , I'm in Tesco . And bizarrely , the other day a couple pulled up in a car and they were asking for a street that's quite local to us and I said , oh , yeah , I explained where it is and then , right out of the blue , even you're Peter , off the telly .
Oh , goodness me , it's Peter . Oh , hello , we had this chat I'm trying to get out , like they blocked the driveway . I know we're going to get all the information out . They could well . That was absolutely lovely .
But then the other day I went to fill up a gas cylinder because I need propane gas for my kiln , because I have a record and all of a sudden , this , this , this lady at the Katie her name is , she's lovely and she was chatting away and she was smiling and you could see that she was going . I'm trying to know .
And one of the lads from the yard came up and said no , that is don't you . And she went . We went Peter , peter , peter the potter , and I said you know , she's got a piece of ruffetel here . I went yes , yeah , I know , it's lovely , it's absolutely adorable , you know .
So you're avoiding the question about working with family , then oh , yes , I knew I was going to go back to that . It's like working with family . Okay , so I have a fantastic family . We're a big family about 10 grandchildren . But my daughter , who you've spoken to , hannah , she does all the social media . She does all the website . She's absolutely fabulous .
She does all that Gell does , my wife does I like all the packaging does all the organisation . She runs a very busy house . She looks after the grandchildren , she looks after everybody . She has a massive job . She's head of a design faculty at school . When I work , of course we have our . You know , I have my methods .
Not everybody's the same , so that was a little bit of friction , but on the main it's pretty good and we can always sort of discuss it as families discuss things , if you could imagine . I mean , I know I always lose , but you know it's been very good . I've been amazed by how lovely it is . We have a photographer and family .
So he comes in and he does the photography , takes her up , edits it . What's your bet , hannah ? She does all the the . You know the final editing we've put on the website . That's brilliant and I just got to produce .
So what I have is I've got a friend called Bob who when I was at school , when I was head of visual arts , I met him and he used to service our kylons at school . When I started the studio I contacted Bob and said you know , if you hear of any kylons going , can you let me know ?
And the way schools are about being creative , we're in a situation where schools try to get rid of that kind of stuff . So I managed to buy two second-hand kylons , big electric kylons that went into the garage , so they don't I'm not quite an extra actor and they don't interfere at all with the production area , with the wheels and my teaching area .
Then we decided to look at doing recoup work . Just experimenting with recoup . I got a galvanised dustbin and I fibled it and I made all the burners and everything and I made a recoup kylon and that's you know , and it's good fun . Oh , my goodness , you smell like a bonfire . It's not very romantic , you know .
Did you do that before the show ?
The recoup . No , that came afterwards , yeah yeah , because we didn't make it recoup on one of the episodes and we thought , oh , this is like good fun , you know .
Yeah , brilliant , Awesome , thank you . You are 70 years old and I know you are busier than ever . What keeps you going ?
You know , claire , I'm not 70 in my head , you know , my body is 70 , and I get up some mornings and go oh what could this be what's happening ? But when I get going I'm fine . I'm a great believer in progress . Ages only a number . I keep that motivation going . It's like I was saying earlier that I don't know what I want to do .
I still don't know what I should be doing in my life . So I continually progress , you know , and I make unusual lights , I skip dive , and so I make and create anything that I can . It's only the fact that the body is a little bit rusty now , but the engine , the engine's got 100,000 miles on it and that's what I believe .
We should all be wherever we possibly can . We've all got something in it , suddenly , something more than you know . I'm retiring now . I rest up . No , you don't Get out there , get walking , look at the world , you know , stop mowing in there for a go , you know , and you can up , go really cheap .
But , you know , buy a 2B pencil and a drawing pad , go for a walk and draw what you see . Nobody there to judge you or any . You , you know , just a good time . Anybody that's self-motivated can do it , get out and have a go .
Perfect . I know that you still like to experiment with your clays and your glazes . I also know that you have commissions and you have work to do for the website . How do you figure it all into your time that you can do the stuff that needs to be done and you can still have your creative experiment ?
Are you a super duper time management person or do you go with the flow ?
I have very good time management . I tend to plan a couple of days ahead . Things like commissions , commissions , are really , really important . They're important to me , very , very important to the person that I should have done the commission . So it has to take priority the people that you're working for personally .
It has to take priority and you just sort of fit everything else in around it , and that's why I'm considering retiring from school and giving the full seven days to work on .
But you can still balance the enjoyment and the creativity and the passion for the craft .
You have to have a passion for the craft . Colleging is one of those things where the creativity evolves , because it changes and you can develop that creativity as you're moulding it . So you may start out with one idea but then , as you're going , oh , I can try that , and it moves along . And the great thing about ceramics and clay is the combination .
It's experimenting with the science of clay , experimenting with the science of glazes on lustres and the koo glazes . That's all exciting , it's all moving along , but it all has to be fitted in . So you sort of have to give yourself a sort of a mini time check .
I have whiteboards in the studio and in the office where I sort of do a plan , and then , of course , my life gel and my daughter Hannah they pop things in . We're going to do this and you need to have that done by then . And , by the way , we're going to do a TikTok this afternoon . More cameras . I hate cameras , but yeah .
So how do you feel when you create something new and you show it , whether to your family or the wider public , by which I mean have you found confidence , or are you nervous about sharing what you've made ?
You know that that's quite interesting . It's a really interesting question and it works a bit like this . I think prior to being on a throwdown , I Didn't quite have that confidence . I'm not a very confident person , anyway , really , about the things that I do and I think that , but anybody will tell you I haven't yet found anything I really , really like .
I'm really super critical , like you know , friends of family going you're kidding , it's actually beautiful , I love , that's fantastic , but I'm always striving for the next thing and I don't . I don't know if that next thing actually exists .
I'm doing this really , really big commission for some friends of ours their anniversary , and had a couple of attempts because I had one blow up in the queue and so I did the second one yesterday and that was satisfying .
It's nearly 700 millimeters high and I thrown it on the wheel in two parts and I sort of looked at that and Joe came in last night , hannah and they were looking at you know it's not quite the shape she's asked for , so I thought , no , but I'm modify it . So well , it's on me , sort this morning I'm modified it , I've got it all back .
I thought , yeah , you know I've got to get it through to farings . But you know , yeah , so I'm getting more comfortable , definitely , and my throwing skills are developing as well , which is good .
Brilliant , so you're back home now . Throw down is over , back to some kind of normality possibly . What are your plans for the future ?
My plans for the future are , apart from going on holiday Crazy times , my plans for the future is to continue developing the business . I want to open the studio up to People coming in want to learn a new skill . I'm gonna offer drawing workshops , painting workshops , mainly pottery workshops .
So the workshop will take two people and I suppose I'm not looking for people to join me that have Great pottery knowledge and I just look if you're a work workshop to use . I'm looking for those people that want to be inspired , young or old . Like I say , we've got disabilities in the family and that's great to work with them . You know , let them make .
So you know I want to carry on with that . I'm also I want to develop my portfolio . I want to . You know , there is a very , very serious side to me and I would like to Get my work into some galleries . I Mean my work is . This is reasonably priced .
I think it's very important for everybody to share you know I'm not looking for fame or anything like that , worth , I suppose and to share that idea and to share that creativity . To share that . You know , madness , it's me . You know I watched this thing last night about Geo-Kometi and I thought , yeah , it's very much like they .
You know both a couple of lunatics , but in a nice way , you know .
Brilliant Peter . How can people connect with you ?
Okay , well , there's a couple of ways of getting in touch with me . Go to the website , which is all brand new , it's all fantastic wwwwoabonsansclaycom . You can see all my work by putting everything up there and you can contact me through . There's a contact page , and please do . Or Instagram at woven underscore , sans underscore clay .
And then Facebook of woven sans clay , please , you know any information writing , or Insta in , or whatever it is , or Facebook in I'm an open book , oh .
That's fantastic . Thank you ever so much , peter .
Thank you , claire , I love your time , thank you .
Listening to the next episode to hear all about Peter's experiences on the great pottery throwdown . Thanks so much for listening to creativity found . If your podcast app has the facility , please leave a rating and review . To help other people find us on Instagram and Facebook , follow act creativity found podcast and on Pinterest , look for act creativity
¶ Contacting the Speaker Through Various Platforms
found . And Finally , don't forget to check out creativity found dot . Co dot UK , the website connecting adults who want to find a creative outlet with the artists and crafters who can help them tap into their creativity .