Sticky Situations That Arise During the Holidays

Please pardon any errors, this is an automated transcript.
Dawn Davenport  0:00  
Welcome everyone to Creating a Family talk about foster adoptive and kinship care. I'm Dawn Davenport. I am both the host of this show as well as the director of the nonprofit, creating a family.org. Today we're going to be talking about sticky situations that arise during the holidays. I don't think I need to define sticky you're going to hear about some of them. But anybody who has been a parent will understand that there are just some situations that leave you exhausted and perplex, we will have a panel of people to help address these issues. today. I'll start at the beginning and list all three, we have Janice Goldwater, she is the founder and CEO of paths for family, and adoption and family wellbeing organization founded in 1990. She has her Master's of Social Work, and more than 40 years of experience in child welfare and mental health. She is also a mom of four through birth and adoption. We have also Courtney Tierra,  she is a birth mom who placed her child for adoption 23 years ago. She is an educator, children's book author and an award winning storyteller who has shared at the mouth, which I must say is one of my favorite podcasts and Creative Mornings Atlanta and Chicken Soup for the Soul. And we have Christa Hefel, she has her Master's of Public Health and is a recruitment and training manager for the Cedar Rapids service area of Four Oaks, foster and adoptive family connections. She has been a foster mom for 10 years, and has 10 children through birth and adoption. Welcome all to creating a family. When we sent out the request for questions to ask you guys, we touched a nerve, we got a fair amount of questions all over the board. So I am really looking forward to discussing them with you. Apparently, the holidays bring out sticky situations. And I think that any of us who have parented will know that that is indeed the case. I think a common one that comes up, especially when you're fostering or adopted children past infancy, is how to incorporate very different traditions around the holidays. And there are all sorts of different ones, differences in gift giving styles, whether you give just a few gifts that are very thoughtful, and perhaps have a higher monetary value, or you give many gifts. So Janice, I'll start with you. How should you handle this type of situation?

Speaker 1  2:28  
Well, first of all, thank you so much, Dawn, for including me in the podcast. You know, holidays are so tricky. In general, they are tricky in families that came together through birth, there are families that come together to foster through adoption, just through marriage, through marriage, because we're delivered this myth, this feeling this fantasy that the holiday should feel a certain way, whether it's the music and the movies, and I mean, just all the messaging we get from the retail community about how the holiday should fail, puts a tremendous pressure on families, then we have our own cultural experiences, each one of us in the family that raised us, and what the holidays meant and how the holidays felt. Then as we grow, and we partner, as you said, you know, through marriage or through partnership, whatever how we come together, we develop new rituals and practices and have to find a way, you know, for me, I did it this way, but then my partner may have done it that way. So we have to come together to create some new rituals for ourselves. So when we think about our children, our children who have come to our families with a history of their own, with a history of celebrating or not celebrating of experiencing the holidays, in a very different way than we have. They then step into the world of the parents who have an idea. Their body remembers what the holidays feel like they're trying to replicate a feeling, both for themselves and for their children. And that's where it can get kind of challenging. The first thing I suggest is becoming really aware of our own feeling in our body. What do we dream about? What do we imagine? How do we imagine the holiday should be? You know, notice, name all those different pieces of it, because then once we know what we want, we can then put that alongside and be curious about our child. You know, asking them what is the holiday been like for you, whether it's a child that just recently came to the family through foster care. It's a child who was adopted having lived in many different places beforehand, you know, a child who has life experience before they came into your family, being curious, what's the holidays been like for you? And really Getting them to share a sense of the holidays for our kids can be a really lonely time, it can be a really lonely time. And if we as parents have our own, which we are as human beings, we're going to have our own wishes and dreams for the holidays, and we want to replicate it, and we love our children. So we want them to feel good, we have to be really aware of not having our own stuff spill onto them, because that's going to shut them down immediately, that's going to shut them down immediately. So, you know, the first thing is to really be curious to really be curious to empower them to share as little or as much about what the holidays have been like for them, they probably have some really lovely memories, in addition to some memories that may not be so lovely. There's not a right way to do it. Except the one thing that to me is really important is being curious, being attuned, and just really taking the time to slow down. And listen, as

Dawn Davenport  6:00  
we have new children join our family, particularly, as Jenna said, Those who come with the life and they have their own expectations of the holidays, their own favorite foods, or mmm smells, their own traditions, how do we get family by because let's say you have kids already in the family, they have their own idea of when we open gifts, how many guests we expect to be given when we have our big meal, what time of day, all that type of stuff. And sometimes we see a conflict between we want the new child coming in, to be able to have some of their family traditions, because we want this to be a welcoming and safe place for them. But we also have to incorporate that into the expectations of others in the family. If it's just adults, I would say for the adults, they need to, you know, get over it and try to you're the adult in the room. But when you have children in the family, they don't always agree with that. So or because that may be an unfair expectation. So any thoughts crystal, I'm getting family buy in for changes that you may want to

Speaker 2  6:59  
make? Absolutely. I think from a practical standpoint, in having foster children or adopted children and exploring are larger holiday gatherings, we have to do some practical looking at talking to those other people ahead of time, you know, what are you bringing for gifts? Do you have gifts for said foster children that are coming? Do I need to you know, I as a foster parent always planned ahead and talk to those people and said, Hey, and I brought gifts to make sure that everything was even, and made sure that everybody felt welcome made sure that the kids were prepared for what things might look like. So hey, there's going to be maybe lots of lights or lots of songs, or we'll do this outside or inside. And so could really give them a visual to help prepare them for maybe that sensory overload as well as you know, when things were going to start and and where we're going to sleep and all those practical things that from a child coming from hard places, you know, you want to help them prepare for and you really want to help them have that imagery of what that's going to look like. Additionally, you may need to take some of that anxiety out of the way and just tell them look, there's going to be some gifts, here's an example of a gift, you might need to give them a gift ahead of time to be able to mellow down that anxiety, a bit of you're not getting an Xbox and you know 50 Other things with it or whatever it might be, just so they don't end up self sabotaging because they're so anxious for the event that maybe other children near home have experienced and they're excited about that excitement can also bring a lot of anxiety and anticipation and children that haven't had that experience yet. So always wanting to take the trauma informed approach and thinking about how that may get translated differently for children going into that situation.

Dawn Davenport  8:45  
Before I come back to something else, I did want to appreciate that too. Another issue that has come up is unrealistic expectations. On the end of the what type of gifts are family gifts, and the one that comes up very often is x boxes, our phones are expensive gifts that are just not. And I do think it is so helpful to see ahead of time, especially if obviously if you know they're asking for it, you're not going to get a phone, that is an ongoing expense in the family. We have to work it into the budget and quite frankly, you have to be 13 You know, so all of this stuff. You're not getting a phone. So there isn't disappointment. Krista have you faced a situation whereby bringing in the customs of the new child, the foster child or the new adoptive child into the home means changing the existing traditions that you have in the family? And have you had trouble getting buy in from the children that are existing in the family.

Speaker 2  9:38  
We have absolutely experienced that. Actually, our oldest daughter was adopted internationally from Ethiopia and then ended up in the foster care system and we adopted her through the foster care system in Iowa and so we 100% incorporated a lot of her customs and traditions in Ethiopia as much as we could into our home as as well as you know, food and dress and all sorts of different customs. And so our big part as foster and adoptive parents, our job is to make sure that we do have that buy in and make sure we explain it in a family meeting style with our other children in our home to say, hey, you know what, this is important to them, what's important to you that you want to make sure we keep in this holiday tradition? And kind of have that round robin style of how do you feel about this? And what do you think and what's important to you. And, you know, it may be very different than it's looked before. And it's new, and it's great, and you can move forward, and every year can look the same or every year can be different, you know, as much as our palates at holidays. As far as the food that we're eating, you know, we have our traditional, and sometimes you have differences and that brings a spark of new interest into those holiday celebrations, for sure.

Dawn Davenport  10:51  
But if somebody loves the, you know, grandma's green bean casserole, and then you make sure that green bean casserole is on the table, I've kind of given up on trying to control desserts. Everybody has a favorite and anybody new who joins the family has their favorites. So yeah, we just have a lot of desserts. You know, we just say, all right, fine. We're just gonna. Yeah, we'll have good leftovers. Courtney, I have a question for you. When children come to our family, either at birth, or at older ages, we encourage families to embrace openness and adoption. And that means embracing birth families, there are a lot of demands around the holiday time. And a common thread that we see is how do I make certain that I'm incorporating and making certain there's time for my child's birth parents, and birth family, at the same time that we have our own family, and we maybe have two adopted kids. So we have potentially four sets of birth families that have to be brought in. And just logistically, it's complicated. On the other hand, we want to embrace the idea of openness. Any thoughts on from a birth moms perspective? And somebody who's seen how this has worked both well, and perhaps unwell? What should adoptive parents prepare for? And how can they be inclusive of birth families?

Speaker 3  12:11  
So for me, I'm not currently in Reunion. So all of this is hypothetical for me. But I truly believe that communication is number one, being open to hearing everyone's input, including the child's in my ideal world. If I was in Reunion, I would reach out to my son and his parents and say, Hey, how would you feel to start off with a 15 minute FaceTime for the holidays, and then perhaps next year, at 30 minute FaceTime, moving closer to perhaps in person a week before two weeks before the holiday. But again, this is all hypothetical. I have seen other birth moms. I've heard them talk about it at birth mom retreats, and it is complicated, and there have been tears. And so I absolutely agree with Krista in managing expectations. That is the biggest thing that I can think of aside from communication. Yeah, managing

Dawn Davenport  13:19  
expectations. That's a strong one. Janice, do you have anything to add? From your experience? Yeah,

Speaker 1  13:26  
you know, I was thinking about, you know, the whole idea of managing expectations, and we adopted our child just before her 10th birthday. We're Jewish, and we celebrate Hanukkah, and our family tradition is to light a candle, say a prayer, sing a song and exchange a gift. So even though I had been a social worker, and the adoption field for lots of years, and through a lot of education, a lot of everything, it wasn't enough to not have me be excited to give my new daughter some pretty elaborate gifts, that first car. Now she was a child that did not feel worthy of gifts, was sensitive from a sensory perspective. So I went a little overboard and delivered more presents than usual each evening. And what would happen for the first four nights is we would lose eight nights, we would do this and usually like one person gives to everybody. So everybody gets one thing each night, but not that first year, because who that I blow up. But what would happen was get a gift. It was like amazing, was the best Barbie doll or the best, whatever. And then the next day, she'd get a big feeling. And she'd destroy it. And we literally did this for four nights. Right? By the fifth night. It was like wait a minute, this is not not working so well. But I was so stuck on. This is the tradition. This is the tradition. So we really had to rethink it. We had to take a big step. back, we had to really slow it down. You know, she was a child that had already gone through two different, religious upbringings by the time she got to us. And you know, I thought I was creating enough space, so wouldn't be something that was difficult. The moment was like, amazing of giving the gift. But boy, what are the consequences? Hi. So it just really taught me how critically important it is to slow it down, to be aware of my own need to nurture my own need to make her feel good to feel comfortable without seeing exactly what it was that she needed. So we had to make an adjustment, we had to slow it way down. And it really took a few years for things to settle and get more comfortable. But it was a process. You know, it was a process. And I think staying curious within the process, and having enough support to be able to process it. She didn't stop getting things, but I was a lot more careful about what she did get.

Dawn Davenport  16:01  
Yeah. And that's an example where it could be. I don't know, if you had children already in the family when I did, yeah. And that could be complicated, because they're used to getting a gift every night. That's their tradition. Hanukkah means that we light the candle, we sing the song, we say the prayer, we get the gift. And it's not all materialistic. But let's be honest, for children, it is. So all of a sudden, because the new kid can handle gifts. And now all of a sudden, you know, none of us get the gifts, which I'm sure you didn't do with none of you. But it meant changing. And at the very least, I think it's important for us to recognize that the children already in the family also are experiencing change in that. How did you handle that? Because I can imagine with the other kids, they were like, say what? She's the one who's having trouble. I'm not destroying my guess, mom. That's right.

Speaker 1  16:52  
And you know, when somebody has really big feelings that result in a GIF being decimated, you know, it impacts the whole family.

Dawn Davenport  17:03  
Barbie was beheaded.

Speaker 1  17:07  
You said it, not me. So there's a lot of both one on one and group conversations. And, you know, everybody got something, but we just from a sensory perspective, like lowered the tone of it, slowed it down. We tamped it down. So it wasn't like oh, okay, now we're gonna die. Yeah, it was. And

Dawn Davenport  17:30  
I don't know if this is, but I definitely know a family's Christian families who are celebrating Christmas, who have spread out the gifts all month or, or take they have I've know a family that had rather than give a lot of gifts a Christmas did the first of the month for the first three months, they had a gift giving time. So they had January Christmas and February Christmas and march Christmas. And so no, maybe from a strictly traditional standpoint, it didn't work. But it certainly worked better than overwhelming one child

Speaker 2  18:04  
done that similar to what we have to do in our home is for a Christian household. And the anxiety builds so much in these children that have had some hard times. Additionally, we've had kids that have had siblings move back with birth families at Christmas time, because I get that that's practical for the system, because they get a little bit of time to adjust to their new family, and then they get to go to school. But unfortunately, that leaves a lifelong trauma reminder in these children. And so we have had to adjust the time to as soon as school gets out, basically, for Christmas break, then that night, they get their gifts, you know, we take the anxiety out of it. Typically, we like to do a trip over that time to just kind of get away from the whole hype of the holiday to kind of bring it down a bit. So it's a more manageable level, like we're talking about. And that was a bit hard for, you know, our birth children and other children at home. And we've just talked about, hey, you know what, it's a surprise and boom, it happens. And as much as it's different for them. It's also exciting and they're not losing anything. It's just changing the date and changing when things get celebrated. And so everybody does a little flexing when we are parenting kids from hard places. Absolutely.

Dawn Davenport  19:18  
And acknowledging that there could be sadness for the other kids I think is really important as opposed to well if this is just another way to do it, no big deal it's not that there's somebody said I think it was Christopher at the beginning. We'll try to keep the important part. So tell us what's important so that we're doing our best to make it even for the suffering is or the excitement is shared that way around. I want to send a warm thank you to the listeners that are returning this week, along with an equally warm welcome to our new listeners. Did you know that following the creating a family don't work podcast gives you access to our extensive or archive of many topics related to managing relations with birth parents holiday situations, managing relations with your own family, surrounding adoption, etc. We have been doing this podcast for six teen years. I know Believe it or not 16 years we'd like to say we were podcasting before podcasting was a thing. As a result, we have a huge archive, many, many, many, in fact, the vast majority, the topics are evergreen, it doesn't matter whether you are having a grandparent who is not treating your child fairly, or an open adoption situation. Whether that happened 10 years ago, whether that happened 10 days ago, the answers would be very similar. So the information is equally as valid. So, subscribe to the podcast, whatever app you listen to podcasts, and then you can scroll through all the titles. Alright, I want to now start with some of the questions we have received from the audience. What I started with were things that are kind of universal that we see every year, but we send out a request for our audience to send in their own specific questions. All right, this is from an adoptive mom. And she is also a reunited adult adoptee. She says so my daughter is 12. And we've been a reunion with her biological dad for three years now. It's been really great. We talk regularly and visit him one to three times a year. He's been pretty good about communicating with her. But last year, he said he would send her a Christmas or ex gift for her birthday right after Christmas. And he didn't send anything for Christmas or her birthday. He sent gifts for the first two years in Reunion. So trying to set up expectations for this coming holiday birthday season has been difficult. That's such a good point. And that is a question that we see come up over and over again is if birth parents have promised something, how do we handle it? If they are not able or they don't follow through with the child we know the child is expecting it. Krista, any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2  22:08  
Absolutely. So we are in reunion with many of our adopted children's families. And we've had this actually come up in our home of different times of families wanting to send gifts or they have sent gifts, then they say they're going to send gifts. And so we've learned through experience as well to just pretty much set that expectation of the time with you is much more than any gift could provide. So that's sending pictures, being able to do video chats, you know, we've gotten to meet with a couple families in a park and hang out and play that is so much so much more than any gift could ever provide. So it takes off the anxiety for them as well as a birth parent who has unfortunately not been able to raise their children filling that void is very strong in them of trying to be able to purchase that gift or do that or how big should I make it exactly?

Dawn Davenport  23:01  
What's the perfect if I've got to show all of my love and this one moment. This one gift giving? I've got to shove it all in there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really hard. That's a lot for Barbie to carry on her shoulders. Yes. Hi, Courtney. Any thoughts on that? About how to from both the and I'm so glad Krista brought that up. It's not just from the child's standpoint. But the pressure that birth parents or birth grandparents might feel to make up for our be present for their child. So

Speaker 3  23:33  
that's actually something that I thought about when I was making my adoption plan. Even though I was 17. I was thinking ahead more you were, I really was. And I thought to myself, What if one year I can afford to send a $500 gift? And then what if the next year I can't, is my child going to think that correlates to the amount of love that I have for him. And so I made the decision that I could always no matter whether I'm doing great or not, I can afford a card and a stamp. And so that is what I decided to do from the start was I'm going to send a card for his birthday, I'm going to send a card for the holidays. And then I'm going to send a card to his mother for Mother's Day. And as father for Father's Day. And that made it very simple for me to not be like Oh man, I'm struggling this year. I can't, I can't do it. And so I think that was helpful. In the case of my adoption journey with my son. I will say that I think there has to be a boundary set because, you know, adoptive parents, your goal is to protect your babies. So maybe there's a boundary, hey, I know that you want to talk to our child about what you're going to buy them where you're going Give them but I would appreciate if you did it if you happen to send something great, but please don't tell our child that you're going to send something because I would prefer them to not be disappointed if it falls through. So maybe that's a boundary setting up front. Don't talk about what you're going to buy them.

Dawn Davenport  25:17  
Yeah, don't promise. But I can see that that would be hurtful, too. Because when somebody is promising at that moment, they have every intention of following through. Yeah, that's hard. All right. So Jan, has thoughts on how to prepare a child, let's say you're in a situation where you know that, like the person who sent the question, first two years in Reunion, there was a gift. The third year, there was a gift promise, but no gift came this year is coming up. So thoughts on how to prepare her 12 year old?

Speaker 1  25:51  
Yeah, I mean, I think it's really difficult. And again, I think it comes down to the parent staying open, curious and attuned to how their child is feeling. One of the things that adoptive parents have to be really careful about is to not say disparaging things about their children's birth parents, because their children's birth parents are a part of who they are. Yep. And so even when a birth parent has hurt a child emotionally or physically, it's never helpful for an adoptive parent to bring that up, sort of against the parent, you know, in support of the child. So I think that they could be curious, you know, with the child as to possibly what's going on with the parent. And we know that he cares. And we know that if he's in a position to send something he will, but we don't know if he's in that kind of position yet. Because sometimes there's too many things in his life that are too complicated. And so in his heart, his heart may say, let's send it but he doesn't actually have the ability to send it, it has to be developmentally appropriate, too. So it's not about age, but it's about development, you know, and so you can have a 12 year old who's like a four year old, or two year old or 12 year old who's like a 16 year old, in terms of socially and emotionally and how they can understand sort of perspective taking and others perspective. And so I think that if a child feels disappointed, a parent, just sitting with them, holding them and saying, I know, sweetheart, it's really hard. It's really hard to want something and have it not happen as compared to Well, he did it last year, or maybe next year, he'll be able to do it. You're that invalidates the feeling. And I think one of the hardest parts of being a mom is wanting to make things feel better. It's so hard to have our children learned. And so the inclination to sort of step in and tuck it away, and all the reasons why they don't need to feel bad, only helps us to feel better. Exactly not. So it's just being with just being a child as they're going through it.

Dawn Davenport  28:05  
So the advice for this questioner is to, if possible, reach out to the birth dad, and communicate. And let's Christo was saying, no gift is necessary, really, just a FaceTime would mean the world to her. And then coordinate was saying, to talk with him to communicate with him, and tell him it's not necessary. And that, again, just to communicate what the expectations are, and to ask that they not share, don't share if you're going to give it or not. If gift comes it comes, if it doesn't come, it doesn't come. And then what Janice's saying is, don't try to paper over the hurt feelings, just be there with her. And also realistically share that even though you really want to give a gift you may not be able to and that her dad may be feeling, you know, equally as bad by this. So, all right, here's another question. We are a family built by adoption, and we are learning how to see our child's somewhat challenging behaviors as an expression of an underlying need. It's been a steep learning curve, given our own history of being raised in the quote, children should be seen and not heard in quote era. However, when we practice our new skills by trying to listen to our child, and work with him to feel seen and heard, and find better ways to express that need, we find a spotlight being pointed at our techniques. In the past, my parents and siblings have said things like, quote, child centered and quote spoiled and quote soft about us to other family members. They haven't asked at all about our changing methods or given any indication that they would be open to learning why we are changing up how we parent, what can we do to prepare ourselves for a few days of family time? Do you have any recommendations for responses to those less than direct comments? That's a hard one, and one I think a lot of us have faced so Oh, Janice, I'm gonna give you that one. Because it is hard. I'm giving it to you. Yeah,

Speaker 1  30:04  
well, wonderful. I love hard family things. Yeah, and because and I think it's something that many of us, many of us who have parented, children who have had difficult beginnings have experienced, and judgment. We know judgment is really high, particularly within families. Yeah. And families are together who don't have children that have had rough beginnings. There's a lot of judgment there. And then when we have our children who had rough beginnings, everybody's an expert. So I think beginning by just recognizing that this is like a crazy secret society that we're all that we're all a part of it and it happens to all of us is a good beginning. And think about our boundaries, you know, how are we going to take care of ourselves as we walk into this situation, and knowing that we're working really hard to manage, we're working really hard to manage, we don't have anything to apologize for, we don't have anything to defend. And you know, when I was thinking about this question, and thinking about the kinds of things we could do beforehand, like if we have a partner or another family member, that we can come up with some language together to support each other, or a little secret language, and maybe even some statements like, you know, thank you for caring, we've got this, or yeah, this might look a little challenging and confusing. You know, I appreciate that you care.

Dawn Davenport  31:31  
Can you say that without sarcasm? I'm just wondering, well, appreciate that you care? Yeah. You

Speaker 1  31:38  
know, and then another one, I was thinking of us, wow, you can really see all those classes that we've taken. Yeah, you can really see that we're learning new ways to deal with things. Because there's a lot of new things to deal with. And I'm really pleased that you can actually see that we are intentionally doing things differently. Because this is a different kind of situation, you probably didn't raise children that had had difficult beginnings. There's a lot of science behind this. There's a lot of information, a lot of stuff we've worked really hard to do. So you know, and I think having a space where you can vent and get grounded. And just having like a person having your person that you have a look a word something. Because, yeah, there's a lot of judgment that we get.

Dawn Davenport  32:30  
Yeah, good answer. And the only thing I would throw in is I find it so helpful to find a support group, via in person or online. post about it, because you will find people who go I know, as you said, it's our secret society. Join that secret society get people in the midst of it, you can say you will not believe what my father just did. Yeah. And somebody's gonna say, oh, my gosh, you didn't strangle him good for you. You know, so? Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Let me pause here just to remind everybody to check out our curriculum for small group interactive training or for support groups works equally well. We have 25 curriculum. All of them researched based and trauma informed on topics directly relevant to foster adoptive and kin families, and can be used online or in person. Check it out at parent support groups.org. All right, Krista. You're gonna get the next one is so buckle in. How do we handle grandparents, older relatives who are very vocal about current affairs, race issues, politics, government systems, foster care system, within earshot of kids, my older relatives are extraordinarily vocal about current affairs and national politics. They also see no problem with the news being on all day long, even when the younger children are in the room. With a climate of racial tensions, divisiveness, extremism, and scary things happening in the news. I'm concerned about the impacts on my kids. Their significant trauma history makes them extra sensitive to angry voices, violent images, and tensions between the adults they love. As you can imagine, this makes it hard to have pleasant visits because I am feeling sensitive to my children's stresses. And my stress levels are going up. I'd love some ideas for how to discreetly and respectfully address these family members who are hosting us for the holidays, as well as for suggestions for how to prepare myself and my kids. The one thing before you answer, Krista, that I would say is that if a family member is being racist in the presence of your child, you have to be the voice for that child. That is just unacceptable and you may have to choose between your child and the adult. I just had to get that out. Now, I promise I will let you actually answer the question Krista and get my hackles back down Have a bit?

Speaker 2  35:01  
Well, I think that's a good point, Don, and I am definitely on the bolder scale of like, if they're not gonna, you know, cooperate, and they're not going to pay attention to the fact that there are trauma triggers, then we know we need to look at this differently. I've also come to the realization that we have important elders in our family systems that provide a lot of value. And so there are things that, you know, we get annoyed about. And I'm also one that doesn't use technology much in my home at all. So my kids have all the devices for when we go 26 hours to Arizona, that they can plug in their ears, and they can play and they can do, but otherwise, they're pretty off limits. And so I've definitely, as I've grown in my adoptive parenting role known to go, this is one of those times, Don, this is one of those times where I pull out the technology and the iPad and the DS and get all the kids headphones with their ears covered and say, Guess what, this year's holiday means Technology Day. And as unfortunate as that would be that they wouldn't be able to do much playing with their cousins, because they would be glued to screens, I think that is a better value of that time, then experiencing all of those things that we really protect them from, because we don't watch a lot of mainstream media either in front of our children, because of the same reasons. And so I think there's discrete ways that you can definitely go, Oh, those kids and their technology, and you're essentially providing them a tool to protect themselves. You know, we want to provide coping skills and tools to our children through music in their ears or diversions to what's going on in their world. And if this is a way that we can safely teach them that this helps keep the loud noises out. And this will help you feel more safe. Maybe there's another room that they could go play in, you know that they have a TV on in another room that has cartoons that they're so glued into, they're not paying attention to anything. But in the event that those things aren't available, I would definitely suggest looking at some other tools when it is a you know, like you've already set up a safe environment that is just you know, more distracting than we would like it to be for our children.

Dawn Davenport  37:04  
It's an interesting point, I've often said that one of the main reasons we should limit screen time is that they're amazingly effective when we need them. And so I think that's an important thing. I guess the only other thing that I would throw out would be again, this is not if it's being racist, that's something I just would have strong feelings about. But otherwise talking politics or whatever are just talking constantly about the news, I think that I might share with my kids it depending on their age. Grandpa really loves the news. Grandpa has a lot of opinions about a lot of things, many of which I don't agree with, but I respect grandpa, he, he is grandpa, and we can love him and still dislike things he says and does, there are some limits that he can't cross. But otherwise, I just choose not to fight that battle with Grandpa, because we love him. And quite frankly, he's not going to change. So I don't know, sometimes, you know, so that our children know, that's a tough one. Absolutely. And

Speaker 2  38:05  
you can just do some structured games as well, you know, some games and card games or whatever. And keep the loud end on your end a little louder than the than the other noise and just go grandpa. Yeah,

Dawn Davenport  38:17  
yeah. Are you gonna have a signal to say, you know, for each other within your family, when grandpa starts getting on a rant, here's grandpa. It's a rocket shutting off.

Speaker 1  38:25  
But you know, it's on that point that you made about any kind of racism. It's so loud and so clear from so many people who are adopted trans racially, that, you know, as I've gotten into adulthood, and they have really stepped out and shared their thoughts, just how critically important it is for parents to not tolerate that. And the feeling that if parents allow that to happen, that parents are being complicit.

Dawn Davenport  38:53  
Yes. And you are in a way, because you're choosing grandpa's comfort over your child. Correct. But I feel that way, even with children who share my race. Now, I have to admit, I'm not going to probably change the people that are saying these things. But regardless, I just think that's poison anyway. All right, here's our next one. Our son has a short fuse for excitement, overwhelm, or sensory overload. He's come a long way and learning whether it's safe to quote, let it go and whether it's not. However, he is very reactive in situations like receiving a gift he really loves or when he doesn't at all. several family members have expressed frustration that he isn't more grateful on the spot. And then he comes off as rude and disrespectful. I know the stress for both sides of this probably comes down to expectations. I'm not sure what to do to help the adults adjust theirs. I've mentioned many times how he responds beautifully to feeling safe when he feels as if he can trust him with his full self. I suspect that they think we've abandoned the values of gratitude ever suspect in favor of his trauma history. But I'm still hopeful that we can find a way to help them see what is really going on inside his brain? How can I help them be patient with him and adjust their expectations for my child's healing process? In some ways, this is similar, but in some ways, it's different. It's certainly the expectation of gratitude is certainly well steeped. So Janice, thoughts on that? Let's just focus, there's a lot in that question, let's focus on the child not responding and what we would consider a an appropriate way to gift giving.

Speaker 1  40:36  
So you know, I was thinking about it, because I'm actually married to somebody for lots of years, who has a terrible problem with gifts, terrible problem. And it's just in the first few years of marriage, my parents would say, he doesn't even say thank you. And I get so mad at him, and he's a grown up. And so, you know, it's an issue that is, you know, I've lived with for a lot of years. So I think it's about flipping it, I think it's about flipping it, what I've learned is the act of giving a gift is less of how it's received, and more how it feels to give and helping to educate family that this person has trouble with gifts, for whatever reason, it hits their sensory system, in a difficult way, you don't have to go into too many details, but that this is about them, not about you. And so if you can really focus on that really good feeling of what you're doing. And it's almost like dropping little water on a stone or water on a piece of driftwood that's changing the shape of it, you're giving this gift, you're a part of this loving, accepting, you matter. And let's not look at what you get back from that person. But that's look at what you're giving to them. And then maybe me as the parent, I think the hell out of the person. And I appreciate it. And so I'm modeling it, so they get a good feeling. Thank you so much for getting that incredible gift. And I know he struggles with saying You're welcome. Wow, this means so much. So it's both flipping the gratitude, the psycho Ed piece, and then doing the thinking, you know, for your person.

Dawn Davenport  42:24  
One thought I had was, is there a way that the gift could be sent in advance given to the child, let the child you could have the video there in case he responds, great. But if he goes, who wants this stupid thing, then you can just cut the video and but I also think that that would not stop and I'm sure this parent has done the same. I do think that we as parents have to also as much as we can for the child, it sounds like this kid is making great headway, and hopefully we'll eventually get there. But how do you think grandma felt when you said it was a stupid gift? I wonder how much time she spent thinking of a gift for you. And wonder if she was excited. And wondering how she felt when after you did that, you know, maybe not in the moment, but helping him to be more compassionate, that sometimes being a mature person means hiding your disappointment at a gift. Yeah, but

Speaker 1  43:16  
the other side of it, then you can easily flip into shame. For a person that feels unworthy. Anyway, that's just like one more thing. They did draw your

Dawn Davenport  43:25  
right, you would have to? Yeah, there's a fine line there. There's a really fine line. Because we do want our children to know how other we want them to care about other people's feelings. We also don't want to, particularly some kids who can to spiral into the show. Yeah.

Speaker 1  43:39  
And so maybe like seeing it in tiny little baby steps, tiny little baby steps. And even practicing giving gifts.

Dawn Davenport  43:47  
Sure that's a great one, and practicing giving a gift that the child is not excited about. Or some broccoli. Oh, well, thanks, Mom. Broccoli. Yeah, you know, and that would be funny.

Unknown Speaker  43:58  
You might make it a game. Yeah, you

Dawn Davenport  44:00  
could make it a game. Okay, but what could you say without lying about? I love the green color or something along those lines. And then everybody in the family takes turns saying something nice about broccoli. So that's actually a great suggestion was practice getting guests we'd like this we just assumed not have. And

Speaker 1  44:16  
it's apparent. It's a little awful when somebody goes out of their way to do something really nice for our children. And they don't Yes, not only do they not appreciate it, but they do something really rejecting.

Dawn Davenport  44:26  
Yes, it is you're embarrassed. You're embarrassed partly because you know how the other person is probably feeling and also partly because you think it reflects poorly on yourself. Correct.

Speaker 1  44:35  
That's why we have to get enough support so we don't go down the tubes with our child.

Dawn Davenport  44:41  
Good point. Very good point. I hope you're enjoying this conversation as much as I am. I'm loving the questions we got and the input from our experts. If you also are appreciating this content, you will also enjoy our free course. Since we offer at Bitly, slash J, d f support, that's bi T dot L y, j VF support. Our partners, the document name, Family Foundation are sponsoring and library of courses that can support you to build strong, confident kids. So check it out today. We're Genesis next one, I think may fit with you. But Krista, you may have had this experience as well. But that is I've heard this more with Foster, but I think it would fit with foster and adoptive a child of a different religion or no religion comes into your family. And there is a holiday that is religious, how to handle that. Let's use the example if you have a Christian child coming into your home from fostering standpoint, but your family celebrates Hanukkah, or vice versa. And I know that to have a foster parent who was fostering a child of Jehovah's Witness. And then Halloween is coming up. And she knew that that was off. But she also knew that the parents did not want him brought to her church. But that meant if she was somebody had to stay home with the child. She couldn't go to church. It's complicated. So Janice, I think both you and Kristen might have insight on this. So let's start with you, Janice. And then Christa

Speaker 1  46:14  
really think having a conversation with the child and see, do they have a religious preference? Yeah, do they have some kind of a practice. And if they do, acknowledging it, and not pushing them into exposing them, inviting them into the family tradition, and going to church, I remember, we almost adopted a child who was super religious, and Jesus and Christianity was like, at the core of her life. And we really had to do a deep dive as to what it would mean for our family to keep this piece because this is her history. This is her, you know. And in the end, that didn't work out not because of the religion, but because of some other things. But my child had come from a Jewish family before she came to us. That was her second religion of chatter first before that. But I mean, I think just really respecting, and not forcing, there's so many kids who just go through the motions, they just go through the motions to please. And we're not serving anybody, when we just go through the motions to please. And we're not healing trauma, we're not connecting, or just saying become who I want you to be and what you want, and your feelings, they don't matter. Mm, Crystal,

Dawn Davenport  47:32  
have you faced this situation? Or have you seen others who have faced this situation? And if so, how do they handle it?

Speaker 2  47:38  
Absolutely. From the practical side, you know, you can look at parent visits in the case of a foster child, and maybe have those visits with the parent during the time that the foster family was going to church, or wherever they were celebrating their faith. We've also had situations where we've, you know, encouraged kids to really explore different religions, you know, if they haven't necessarily picked one like, This is mine. But that doesn't mean that this is the one that you should go with, you know, there's lots of youth groups and lots of different religions that we can go to a different place of worship every weekend, and you can make a decision. And so I think, again, reflecting back on what Janice said, and being open and really having that conversation with the child is really important. But additionally engaging with that birth family, and, you know, seeing if they want to do their visits, we've had a lot of families that the birth family wanted to do holiday services at their place of worship, and the foster family dropped the child off with the birth family, you know, as long as they had supervision if they needed it, or whatever. But then they could go to their own celebrations and have their children with them for that special event. So I think, again, it's a lot about communication and collaboration and not forcing anything. So you know, children have definitely gotten to practice religion with us, for sure. But it's a matter of, you don't have to do this. You don't have to do or believe anything that we're doing. If you want to just go along for the experience, you're welcome to. But that doesn't mean that that's what is stuck with you. And so really, again, just teaching that openness and being able to experience some different things, and we found some amazing, amazing faith based support groups for teenagers and kids that have been really, really great for children and care.

Dawn Davenport  49:28  
Okay. All right. I think we have time for one last question. What do you do when grandparents show a clear preference for biological grandchildren? It's infuriating. And it's gotten more obvious over the years to the point that it's not just my partner and I who notice. My nieces and nephews get significantly more expensive gifts, and more of them than my two kids whom we adopted from foster care. What do I do? Oh, that's a tough one. That's a really tough one. Crysta thoughts on that, we'll circle around and give everybody This will be our last one, I'll give everybody a chance to weigh in.

Speaker 2  50:06  
Well, you know, I like to take the high road done,

Dawn Davenport  50:09  
it's a lot less muddy that high road, it is it is in a lot less

Speaker 2  50:13  
conflict, you know, the holidays are a time where you it might be some of the few times that you see some of your family for the year and adding that extra bit of tension is never been helpful. So I usually have backup gifts in my vehicle if I need them, or that's what we encourage others to do just have extra gifts with you and be able to take care of that need to, you know, have everything feel the same. Additionally, you can have a talk with your children before you get there of we're going to get this stuff from your grandparents, and let's not, let's not weigh out who got what, okay, let's just be appreciative of the fact that you got something from your grandparents, and maybe teach them some empathy and reflection upon other experiences. Maybe you didn't get when you were younger. I can tell you when I was a kid, I was very disappointed and sometimes excited about those one pair of socks that I got from my grandparents. And this year, my kids are wanting socks. Yeah,

Dawn Davenport  51:07  
exactly. You know, I do think that oftentimes it's the adult, it depends on the age of the child, obviously. But if it's big the kids up to a certain age, size matters more than money, size means money in their mind. So it could be I just throw out there that your kids are not being hurt by this, you're being hurt by this. I mean, your feelings are being hurt. Yeah, by the time your kids get to, oh, late adolescence and early adulthood, they have figured this out, I'm sure that gifts may not be equal. But Janice thought, yeah,

Speaker 1  51:40  
I'm not quite as chill as I would. I feel I'm a little more Bulldog ish, I would say, We love you for it, Janice, I would go directly to the grandparents. And I would say, you know, I know you love my children so much. I know you have all these grandchildren, and you love them all so much. And it feels like these other grandchildren are getting gifts that are of greater value or whatever, then my children aren't, but you need to have some data, because they're probably doing it without awareness. So you have to have some data. So you can say like this, and this and they may argue, and they may say, Well, your child breaks things. And these children appreciate things, but whatever. But you know, bring it back to strength based I know you love them, and it can feel hurtful for them. And I know you would never do anything intentionally that would hurt them. And then if they're not able to show up in a way that your children feel respected and valued, then it's time to think about a plan B, because children are soaking it right up. They're soaking it right up. And they see way more than we wish that they would. And so I just think that if there's many, many, many things I have learned from being in this world of adoption for lots of years. It's from people who were adopted, who now very clearly state, we noticed, we saw and it hurt. So adoptive parents, make sure that you have our back and make sure that you see what's going on with us. And however you can, you know, be with us, protect us, keep us safe,

Dawn Davenport  53:29  
then choose us. Choose us over not hurting your parents feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney, we're gonna give you the last word on a really easy question, right? I

Speaker 3  53:40  
have found that I'm much more confrontational, and my 40s. And so I was infuriated. Just listening to the question. I can't even imagine what it's like to experience it. But there's absolutely a pulling aside, okay, of the parentals and say, Get it together, it's being noticed. And if you do not change your behavior, you will not have access to my kids or me. And that's really kind of where I stand because as has been mentioned, multiple times, that kids are what matter. And so I'm gonna put their feelings before the feelings of my parents. I'm not here to protect them. I'm here to protect my children.

Dawn Davenport  54:24  
In an ideal world, it doesn't come to that. But yeah, well, thank you so much, Janice Goldwater, Courtney Tierra, and Krista Hazel, for being with us today to stomp our way through these sticky situations that arise through the holidays. So maybe I should now say happy holidays, everyone. Thank you guys, and to our audience. We'll see you next week. Thank you for your support adoption from the heart. This podcast is supported through them for all almost 40 years adoptions from the heart have helped create over 7350 families through domestic infant adoption. They can also provide home study only services. They work with families all across the US and are licensed in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Delaware, Virginia, and Connecticut.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai