Adopting a Child From Another State

Please pardon any errors, this is an automated transcript.
Dawn Davenport  0:00  
Welcome everyone to creating a family talk about foster adoptive and kinship care. I'm Dawn Davenport. I am the host of this show, as well as the director of the nonprofit, creating a family.org. Today we're going to be talking about adopting a child from another state. We will be talking with Jim Thompson. He is a partner in the law firm of Thompson Dove LLC, and is the author of the book, South Carolina adoption law in practice, he has been a fellow of the Academy of adoption and assisted reproduction attorneys since 1993. We'll also be talking with Joan Smith. She has been an adoption social worker with adoption from the heart for 15 years, and is currently the district supervisor of the Pittsburgh office of adoption from the heart. She is also a mom through adoption. So welcome, Jim. And, Joan, we're so glad to have you talking about this topic. Thank you, Donna cue, you know, we get a lot of questions about adopting a child from another state, because I think there's a fair amount of confusion surrounding that. So the way this show is going to be structured is we'll start with talking about infant adoption, then we will talk about adopting from foster care from another state. So we'll start with infant adoption from another state, then adopting from foster care from another state, and then adopting a relatives child, your cousin, your niece, your nephew, whatever, from another state. So that's kind of the framework we're going to be using. So let's start with the first which is going to be private infant adoption. So the first question is, is it possible, Joan to adopt an infant in another state?

Speaker 2  1:39  
Yes, it certainly is possible. Absolutely. It's a little bit more of a process. But yes, absolutely. It can be done. All right.

Dawn Davenport  1:48  
So how does a prospective adoptive parent find an expectant mom? In another state? Jim, how does that work? You say I live in California and I want to adopt from Oklahoma? Or I don't know where I want to adopt from but I want to adopt a baby? How do I find the expectant mom who may be considering placing her child for adoption? Absolutely.

Speaker 3  2:12  
You know, adoption world is as likely to find that right placement out of state, as in state is probably more likely. And as people now perhaps use an agency, many of the agencies have multiple offices, they may be in multiple states. And as we do our own networking between our loved ones and friends, most of us have friends scattered throughout the country. So when someone vouches for an adoptive family, to an expectant mom and says, you know, I know this really nice family in South Carolina, but that birth mom happens to be in whatever state that connection is the most meaningful issue. That's the hardest and most important moment. And if it happens to be in another state, that will be it. And I wouldn't want anybody to be concerned about the procedure, or the logistics, because all of that happens. And it's a matter of a few days or a few weeks, to getting things resolved. The adoption is a lifetime.

Dawn Davenport  3:18  
Yeah, true. So if for adoptive parents who are wanting to adopt, you're saying that letting your friends letting your network know, we're looking to adopt if you hear of someone who is considering placing a child. So that's one of the most important things, but Jim is also possible to work with adoption agencies. And and that's because another way is to with adoption agency or in some states, you could work with an adoption attorney, but to apply to adoption agencies or adoption attorneys in another state. Is that possible as well?

Speaker 3  3:51  
Yes, and is often done. And as I've mentioned, there are many, for instance, in South Carolina, many South Carolina adoption agencies with offices in multiple states, and so you may be having a match in that state as readily as you would in South Carolina. So obviously, that does trigger some additional administrative issues. I guess the elephant in the room, the ICPC, the interstate compact on the placement of children, right,

Dawn Davenport  4:21  
so hold that for just a sec, because we're going to come to that, because you're right, that is the elephant in the room. But before we get there, I wanted to ask about what things prospective adoptive parents should be cautious of when looking for an expectant parent in another state. And this would be especially if they're not working with an adoption professional. And because we see now with social media, now we see people reaching out via social media. Joan, are there things that adoptive parents need to be aware of? That could be pitfalls that they need to know before they start looking across the United States for a baby?

Speaker 2  4:58  
Yes, absolutely. Only when there's not an adoption professional involved. So it may be that they've located an expected parent on their own in some way, like you said, social media, it's very risky. Because the fact is, if you don't have direct contact with an expected parent, or somebody that says they are carrying a child and want to place for adoption, you don't know if they're telling the truth. And there's no way to know that for sure. I think that that is the biggest risk factor. The family could suffer emotionally, of course, because they're so vested and want to baby's so bad, and financially, because maybe the person is asking for financial assistance. And you just don't know, are they indeed pregnant? So you really, I would think that the first step if prospective adoptive parents get contacted, find someone they think is an expected parent, they should contact a professional, whether that be an attorney like Jim, in that state where the expected parent lives or in adoption agency, a licensed adoption agency, they need to contact someone that can go to the expected mom to see what is her story, what's the situation before proceeding forward, don't do anything, maybe they engage them, whether it's texting, talking social media, that's one thing. But before you proceed forward, contact a professional. And if you don't know professional, of course, if you live in, say Pennsylvania, and the expected parent is in South Carolina, if you don't know who to contact, start with your own state contact, either an attorney or a licensed adoption professional in your state. And they should be able to get you in contact with a professional in the state where the expected mom is from.

Dawn Davenport  6:52  
We always caution people in fact, I I think I say it so often. Not all attorneys specialize in this area. And law is something that that is a specialty at this point. And you want somebody who specializes in adoption if you're looking for an attorney, and one of the best sources for that is to look at the Academy of adoption and assisted reproduction attorneys goes by quad A or A, B could go on their website, and they have a list of adoption attorneys by state. And that's a great place to begin. I want to send out a warm thank you to our listeners that are returning this week, as well as welcome our new listeners. You are so welcome here. And we're glad you are with us. Your recommendations for this podcast to your friends is one of the best ways to help us get the word out about this podcast and about creating a family as well. I'm just in general, please help us spread the word about this podcast and our nonprofit so that we can continue to inspire and strengthen the adoption, foster care and kinship community. And we look forward to having you join us next week. Joan has just told us that one thing to be cautious of when your adoptive parents want to be adoptive parents is scams. And sadly and in fact scamming is a thing that happens. Creating a family has a lot of resources on that. And you can go to our website and search for adoption scams. We've got a lot on that. Are there other things that adoptive parents need to be cautious of? I think of two things, one, that the laws in each state could differ. And you could get yourself in trouble advertising and paying for things for the birth mom, not birth mom, I'm sorry, at this point. She's an expectant mom. So Jim, can you talk to us about those type of issues that prospective adoptive parents who are working on their own may run afoul of the law and that could really mess up the possibility of you adopting this job?

Speaker 3  8:53  
That's correct. Yes, there are some adoption scams. But there are also many, many more good faith connections that an expectant mom will make with a prospective adoptive family. And then exercising good judgment and ethics. The adoptive family may still be violating the law, because the law doesn't always mean something is ethically right. You may want to help someone with reasonable living expenses because she's got two other children at home and insurance right and proper. But every state has different rules about what can be paid and how much and how it's done the logistics of it. So that's important. Also, as you assess an adoption opportunity. The birth father situation may be very different under one state law versus another state law. And you know, knowing if somebody is married or not married, whether he's aware of the adoption is not whether that state is going to require the birth mother to identify the birth father, or whether she will be allowed to have the privacy of not identifying the birth father. That's a state by state thing, so as you say about the quad A the Academy of adoption and assisted reproduction lawyers, it's hard to be a member of that group. And it's hard to be able to stay a member, if you have any ethics issues or anything that they police considerably. And it is the only group of lawyers that it's credentialed, you don't just sign up, you have to be invited. And you have to have done a number of interstate cases. So that's a good way to do it. You know, there are a lot of good lawyers to dabble in adoption, who could handle the step parent adoption in state or grandparent adoption and state. But once you start doing interstate issues, that's when you don't want to dabble or you want somebody that focuses their practice there.

Dawn Davenport  10:42  
And also, if you contact an adoption agency in another state, they also can likely walk you through this they have attorneys that they work with, and those attorneys are also experts on this. If you have the responsibility for training, foster adoptive or kin families, or if you're running support groups, for those or if you are a member of a support group or somebody who attends trainings, please, if you're attendee, please let your agency know, if you're the one running it, then I want you to know that creating a family has an interactive curriculum, it can be used for training or for support groups. And it's specific to foster adoptive and kinship families. We have 25 curriculum in our library. And each curriculum is turnkey, meaning that it has everything you need right there, you digitally take it off of the shelf. And it comes with a video a facilitator guide, a handout, an additional resource sheet, and if you need it, it has certificates of attendance as well. And it's all there. And the topics are directly relevant to what these families need and are facing can be used for CTE if you need that. But it could just be used for general education and improving our parenting. It's discussion. Thanks. So it's great for support groups, you can check it out at parent support groups.org parent support groups.org. Or you can go to creating a family.org, hover over the word training and click on curriculum. Okay, let's get to the elephant in the room, which is the interstate compact of the placement of children also known as ICPC. That is the law that governs how a child is adopted from one state by parents in another state. So what all is involved in first of all, why do we need that? I mean, why do we need extra hassle extra paperwork, extra time, all of this for the protection of children.

Speaker 3  12:48  
That's the bottom line, the ICPC was drafted in 1960. Now all 50 states are members, including the District of Columbia and the US Virgin Islands, South Carolina, for instance, became a member in 1980. It's a Uniform Law that operates as a contract among the 50 states that have enacted it. And the whole idea is before a child moves from state A to state B, from a sending state to a receiving state, it's important for certain criteria to be met. And the safeguards that are offered to the ICPC are kind of a recognition, as you said, on the front end, there's not always the right placement in state for any given child. And to be able to find that placement out of state is best for that child. It's kind of a crude way of saying it. But when it was enacted, it was considered an anti dumping statute, where sometimes states would dump problem children, expensive children from one state to another. And so this allows there to be a mechanism by which we can track where did a child go? Is a child still in a safe and supportive environment? And is that child's needs financial emotional being met? So that's the ICPC. So

Dawn Davenport  14:12  
what are the steps? So from a parent's standpoint and adoptive parents standpoint, they find a child. Let's say they're working with an adoption agency in another state. And that adoption agency is working with a number of expectant moms and an expectant mom has chosen you have chosen this family and this is a family in a different state. What are the steps that an adoptive parent and their adoption professional have to work through as it applies to domestic infant adoption?

Speaker 3  14:43  
So the ICPC provides that no sending agency now that may be a private agency or department of social services, no sending agency shall send, bring or cause to be sent or brought into any other party state any time out for placement in foster care, or as a preliminary to a possible adoption unless that sending agency so comply with each and every requirement of the ICPC. So what are those requirements? Basically a dozen, every state has some unique characteristics. South Carolina always needs to be unique. And it has a separate one that other states don't have, which is a court order, finding that it's proper for a child to be placed out of state. But it all begins with something called the 100. A, that is the request for ICPC approval. It lists all the relevant information on that form, and who will be responsible for the care of the child during the pendency of the case, from the time of placement through the time of finalization, there's a cover letter that would be sent to the ICPC office in the sending state, and then that state office would send it to the receiving state. That cover letter identifies the child and the birth parents, the prospective adoptive parents, the statement about how the match was made the name of any intermediary that may be involved. It also would review the consent document, does it comply with the sending state's laws? There's a certification signed by the lawyer stating that the relinquishment is in compliance with the law. There's a verification about the Indian Child Welfare Act, which gives me chills because talking about dabblers. If you didn't want to do an adoption with somebody who's not familiar with the ICPC, or ICWA, the Indian Child Welfare Act, there's also a requirement that the adoptive family is well versed in legal risk issues, such as the health and medical and social history of the child, also an illegal risk issues as to the birth parents. There's also a statement of what law would be applied. And there's a medical and social history on the child, which agencies are known to do in a careful and precise way to be able to give a sense of who is this child, and more importantly, is the adoptive families homestudy. A good fit for that child. The rules are a little bit different in foster care as well. But basically, that's the overview for ICPC.

Dawn Davenport  17:21  
And keep in mind, adoptive parents at this point, we'll be working with an adoption professional, who is familiar with this and will walk you through these steps. Joan, a question we often get is, so which state law applies? I'm adopting a child from Nevada and I live in Washington State. So who's loved applies Nevada or Washington state? Well,

Speaker 2  17:46  
as far as the legal proceedings, where the birth parents that are placing their child we will normally use the laws of the birth parent state. We've had instances for various reasons where we may use the law of the adoptive parents state. As far as ICPC is concerned, though, we have to look at both states. In other words, if the baby is from Nevada, baby was born birth mother is from Nevada, we have to go through Nevada ICPC and get their approval on all of the documents that we submit everything that the adoptive parents have signed, everything that the birth parents have signed, gets approved through Nevada first, and then the state, it gets sent immediately after approval by Nevada, to the other state where the adoptive parents reside, and their home state has to approve the adoption placement as well. So it's both states that have to approve it. If you're talking the legal process, not ICPC, so to speak, that's a little bit different, depending where the child was born and where the family finalizes.

Speaker 3  18:54  
It is a hybrid between the sending state and the receiving state, certainly the ICPC office for the sending state is going to be looking at their state law. Interestingly, the ICPC regulations that went into effect have looked at this issue as well, because there are situations where, let's say, you're in North Carolina, where there's a revocation period of time for the birth parent to change their mind. But the birth mom is placing a child in South Carolina and with adoptive family in South Carolina, that expectant mom may want to choose South Carolina law, she may want to govern her whole adoption, with no revocation period, and a new regulation regulation. 12 of the ICP regulations allows and I'll just quote it to you. If a parent is permitted and elects to follow the laws of a state other than his or her state, then he or she should specifically wave and writing the laws of his or her state of residence. So now you really have a choice. It can be the sending state or the receiving state

Dawn Davenport  19:59  
and the party Su has that choice is the expectant mom, or in this case, if she's placed the birth mom.

Speaker 3  20:05  
That's right. It's the whole concept of self determination. And if a birth mother makes that decision that that fits her needs, and she chooses another state law, then she's empowered now to the ICPC regulations to do that. And

Dawn Davenport  20:21  
she is also working with an adoption professional who is helping her figure out what's in her best interest at this point. Alright, so it seems like the $64 million question here is, where's the baby? During all this, we were talking about a lot of regulations and sections and all this but there's a baby and there is adoptive parents who are anxious to be the one diapering, feeding, cuddling, holding and not sleeping surrounding this baby. So Joan, what happens to the baby during this process,

Speaker 2  20:54  
we place the baby with the adoptive parents, even before interstate approval. And in our case, it's usually a newborn baby being placed out of the hospital. So the baby is normally discharged to the agency in this case, since an agency is involved, then we immediately place the baby with the adoptive parents. So the babies with the parents, if they are out of state than they are probably in a hotel somewhere, and they're with the baby caring for the baby. But they can't go back to their home state. Not yet. Not until they get what's called interstate approval. From both states, the birth parents state, the adoptive parents state, but they are with the baby taking care of the baby. They're just not permitted to go into their home state and kill ICPC is approved. So

Dawn Davenport  21:42  
in our example, before then, Nevada adoptive parents have gone to Washington State and are staying in Washington State, caring for the baby and short term rental Airbnb type situation or hotel or whatever, wishing they could be home about how long and this is probably an average. But how long do you tell parents, Joan, that you need to expect to be in Washington State or wherever that baby is? While the paperwork winds its way through?

Speaker 2  22:11  
Well, we like to tell parents longer than what it actually takes. Because it's always better to get that good news. And we don't know for sure, right? We can't predict how long interstate will take although they are very quick. And things have gotten much more quickly with electronic filing. So it makes it much more quicker to get approval from two different states. What we tell parents is a lengthy time we tell them plan on 10 working days, does it take that long? Not normally it it could though it could and it could take beyond that. We tell them 10 working days, what we find out is it's usually anywhere from I'd say three to four days. And it can be we just did one this week. It was one day we got approval from both states. But we're not going to tell parents that because it's much better to plan for a longer trip. But I would say average, maybe three days, four days on the average.

Dawn Davenport  23:06  
Yeah, I think you're wise to tell people to plan for more. Because the reality is, you know, we've got bureaucracies in two states that you're trying to work your way through. And there's nothing worse than running out of the onesies and then having to go to the laundromat. And yeah, so it's planned for it. Just hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Speaker 3  23:28  
Absolutely gone. I was also reminded though, that sometimes this is happening faster than adoptive families realize. And even though they have compact approval to go home, some have decided just to cocoon for a little while. Just stay in the ascending state and spend a few of those days together before the onslaught of family and friends.

Dawn Davenport  23:50  
Yeah, I can see that I absolutely can see that where you think you know what, it's just us here. And although being in a hotel room with a newborn, I don't know, honestly. We did the divide and conquer approach to newborn so that every other night, one of us would be able to get some sleep. So I'm just saying then I might have to have an extra hotel room.

Speaker 3  24:12  
There you go. Yeah, one of the reasons things have sped up in 2014, there was a new pilot program, six different states joined something called nice, the National electronic interstate compact enterprise. And that was when things started going digital. Now 45 states have joined that digital process. It used to be this cumbersome FedEx process where you'd send it to the sending state and they get approval and out it would go to another state. That's how you got day after day of delays. Now it being digital, it's happening really a matter of a few days.

Dawn Davenport  24:49  
Yeah, it has definitely. Thank goodness speeded up. Alright. If you're new to this podcast, you probably haven't heard about it if you're an old timer. Are, you probably have heard about our free courses that we offer, we have to thank the jockey Big Family Foundation for supporting these free courses, we have 12, they are just excellent courses. They're geared more for people who are actively parenting. It's more focused on that. So you can check them out at Bitly, slash, j, b, f support. It's bi T dot L, Y, slash J. P F support. And be sure to tell a friend about him as well. Okay, well, now we've talked about domestic infant adoption. Now let's talk about adoptions from foster care, and how that works if you're adopting a child from foster care in another state. So, Jim, is it possible to adopt a child from foster care in another state? Yes,

Speaker 3  25:56  
it's possible. And there are certain regulations that are specific to adoption and placement through the abuse and neglect system, if you will, the dependency system. regulation number two sets forth those requirements. But I'll speak to it in more broad terms. And that is that there is a federal move realized in each of the states, where instead of children remaining in foster care, they're looking to family, and looking to family, whether that child is in state, or across those borders. Do you mean

Dawn Davenport  26:31  
looking for a relative family? extended family? Yeah, we're going to come to that. But you're exactly right, that is becoming an increasing emphasis in foster care. But that will be our next section. But go ahead.

Speaker 3  26:41  
So also, if the children are young children, time is of the essence. And we have recognized that sometimes home studies between the states have just been in ordinate. Ly long, six months, and six months in the life of a young child can just be the difference between the heaviness sense of permanency and a sense of limbo. So we now have regulation seven, which was an ICPC regulation. It's specific for the abuse neglect system when their child is in foster care. And it is intended to expedite placement decisions, seeking ICPC approval to place a child with a parent or relative. And it's specific when the child is four years of age or younger. And it is a way of being able to get that in about a month period. If things go well, I have seen it a few times a month or two, which is pretty fast. If someone comes forward seeking placement, they are a family member, and they live out of state to be able to ask for that expedited what they call a reg seven request, which is a court order asking for there to be an expedited home study. So if you're at a state, and that child is in another state, and you're interested in that placement, you should be talking about our reg seven court order to expedite a home study to see if you can have approval for placement of that child.

Dawn Davenport  28:05  
And that most likely happens when it is a relative adopting a child in another state. Because the reality is that generally, unless you're related to the child, young children are placed within the state. So it doesn't happen too often. sibling groups I suppose. But it doesn't happen too often, where a very young child, there are two ways to adopt from foster care. Again, this is a gross oversimplification. But one would be that you are adopting a child that is legally free. In other words, that child's parental rights have already been terminated. The other way is usually you are the foster parent for that child and you have the child is living with you. And you have fostered that child very often for a couple of years. And you are adopting your foster child, because the determination has been made that it won't be safe for the child to return to their birth parents. So that begs the question of and most adoptions from foster care are from foster parents adopting the child to have been fostering. So that begs the question of can you foster a child in another state? Let's go back to our Nevada Washington State example. We're in Nevada, and they want to foster a child who is not legally free. The parental rights have not been terminated. The question really isn't is it possible? Because yes, in theory, it's possible. Jim, do you see that happening very often? Yes.

Speaker 3  29:35  
Yes. The whole concept here is that grownups sense of time is different than children's sense of time. I can blink and it seems like a year has gone by. But if you're blinking for a child, that's too that's half of someone's life. And so really, when we're talking about a placement of a child in another state, that's Say a relative's serving as the foster placement. Yes, if you stand up, raise your hand and perhaps become a party to the case. But move forward with asking for that ICPC compliance, having your home study, being cooperative being vigilant about providing the sending state with all the information that your home would be safe and secure for a child, a placement can be made. Now, it may be and this is maybe in the weeds, but I think it's pretty important. It may be a relative placement, that's not foster care. But nationally, and certainly in South Carolina, there is a move for relatives can also ask to be licensed as foster parents. And that's a key distinction, because if you are licensed as a foster parent, you also have Yes, some more administrative responsibilities. But you also likely have a monthly stipend, a monthly amount of money that helped for care for the child, and probably Medicaid. And so to be able to go through and even if you're a relative, let's say you're a grandparent, living in North Carolina with a child is in foster care in South Carolina, you can ask to be licensed. And the requirements for that licensure are often less onerous than it would be if you were just asking your home to be licensed, not for a specific child. Right. So to summarize, yes, you can ask for a relative placement. But you can also ask as a relative to be licensed as a foster parent, and therefore equip the child with those additional protections and benefits such as Medicaid and monthly subsidies support.

Dawn Davenport  31:44  
Exactly. Yeah. And so that would cover relatives. And we do you see that happening? As Jim has pointed out, and increasingly, it's happening. And I loved what you said about the key is to be vigilant, cooperative, and letting everyone know that you want to be a placement for that child. Now, let me talk briefly about if you're not a relative, and you're looking to foster a child in another state, it's not easy, it can happen. But it's not easy. And if you think about it, from a realistic standpoint, there is a disincentive for a state to look outside the state for a couple of reasons. One, the goal of foster care is to reunify the family. And that becomes increasingly hard if the child is not nearby in order to have frequent visits and things such as that. So there is that the other reason is that a state has taken a child into foster care, they are the legal guardians of that child, and they have the legal and moral obligation to be looking out for that child's well being and that requires visits and actually laying eyes on the child. And that's expensive. If the child has moved from Washington State to Nevada, going back to my overripe example here. So it is unlikely that you will be able to foster a child in another state. And that's important because that is certainly one way and probably the majority of children who are adopted from foster care by non relatives are adopted for their foster parents. However, there are children whose parental rights have already been terminated, those children are available for adoption. And for whatever reason, their foster family has usually been asking that just may not be a good fit or whatever that the foster family is not going to adopt. And those children, the beginning, the state looks within the state for a placement again, because the child would then be closer to their biological extended family, where they're born, their culture that whatever they're usually looking within the state, however, there are children who they weren't able to find the best home within that state. So they're looking outside the state. And let me say these children are generally over the age of seven. They're not toddlers, they're not infants, they're not preschoolers, generally, unless they're a part of a sibling group and larger sibling groups. Make up some children in this category of legally free because it's harder to find families, you can take him four or five or six kids. So Jim, how do you find a child in foster care in another state that is legally free to adopt now we're not talking relative adoption? Now? We're talking just regular. I know adopt us kids has a listing. And that's adopt us kids.org? Do you know of other ways that families who are wanting to adopt a child to school aged child or older could find a child in another state?

Speaker 3  34:39  
Right. So adopt us kids is going to be a good consortium to bring all of those things together than each state has. To my way of thinking I think each state I know South Carolina has what we call the

Dawn Davenport  34:51  
Heart Gallery. Most states anyway, yeah, go ahead. What is the Heart Gallery?

Speaker 3  34:55  
So in South Carolina, it's kids that are free for adoption and had been waiting and it is a way of going online and some photographers donate their services to spend an afternoon with kids and try to capture them with their vibrant personality and wonderful idiosyncrasies and kind of put that summary up on a website and to be able to say, these kids are free. And as you as a prospective adoptive parent go through, you know, I believe in some nudges that come in adoption, if we're building a family, it's the most private of things. And sometimes as you go to that gallery, you feel a nudge, to get more information, to learn more about a child, you feel a connection. And that can be the way to do it. And whether you are in that same state or the state next door or across the country, that child is free for adoption, and free for adoption means there are no impediments to termination of parental rights, or the prospective adoptive parents. And so there's a real opportunity there.

Dawn Davenport  35:56  
He's not speaking of free as in the cost, although adopted from foster care is usually free or very low cost he's speaking, legally free is the term meaning that there are no legal impediments to the adoption in parental rights have been terminated. Right. All right. So we know ICPC has to be involved, because we know we're adopting between two different states, let's say Kansas, and Missouri. So we're giving Nevada and Washington state of break here. You've alluded to where there is a relative and the relative could be a grandparent, but it can also be a cousin. Well, it depends on how people define relatives. Each state will define that slightly differently. But certainly aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, siblings, brother, older brother, older sister, and grandparents would all qualify. So let's divide it up between how ICPC would work with we've already mentioned some of the things relative let's say I'm a grandparent in Kansas, and I have found out that my grandchild is in foster care in Missouri. So how does ICPC apply at that point?

Speaker 3  37:03  
So there are exceptions to ICPC. And I find that people get confused about these, you're right and talking about parents are different family members, the rules are different. So certain relatives in one state don't apply. And those are a parent, a step parent, a grandparent, an adult brother or sister, adult uncle or aunt. So these relationships apply to the child, not to the birth mom. So for instance, if it's an aunt is the child's, not the birth mom saying it. So

Dawn Davenport  37:37  
a second removed are great aunts would not Yeah, interesting. They do not, they

Speaker 3  37:42  
do not. The other part is both of those relatives most be on both sides of the placement. So if a birth mom is making a placement with a family friend ICPC applies. If the birth mom, though, was making a placement out of state with a parent, the other parent or a step parent or a grandparent ICPC doesn't apply. One issue that if the child is in foster care,

Dawn Davenport  38:10  
yeah, I was just gonna say that's the birth mother making the decision. What if it's the state, in other words, is the state taken legal custody. So

Speaker 3  38:17  
the state is not one of those mentioned, the state there's not a parent, a step parent, a grandparent, an adult brother or sister. Therefore, if the state is making the placement ICPC applies. Now, recently, the regs have looked at that, especially as to a non offending parent. So let's say you have a birth father, who lives in North Carolina, you have a birth mom who committed some abuse or neglect and the child's in foster care. A new regs specifically says unless the court is aware of some sort of concern of abuse or neglect for that non offending parent, the court can make that placement the court can make that placement.

Dawn Davenport  39:00  
In other words, ICPC would not have to apply. Right? That's correct. That seems fair.

Speaker 3  39:05  
It does seem fair, but it's not in the practice. Yes, it's interesting to me. And so that's a really important part of candidate change of foot. South Carolina and other states have also are looking to try to make those placements in other states more promptly by changing the requirements of homestudy approval, for instance, a criminal background check, a check of the central registry for abuse neglect to can make those placements.

Dawn Davenport  39:33  
Okay. And the other thing you had mentioned, we're talking relatives here is regulation seven, you find out that your niece is in foster care in Missouri and you live in Kansas and you want that child to be placed with you. Then regulation seven court order is what you're looking at. Absolutely.

Speaker 3  39:54  
All right, and it can really expedite things, but then talk about being vigilant. I I've seen plenty of regulation, seven letters just weren't done right. And instead of the one to two month process, six months later, things still aren't done. And we're going back for a second regulation seven letter, it really goes back to people dabbling and ICPC. As opposed to being people who have lots of experience doing those cases, being vigilant. And being a squeaky wheel, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and that could be for the attorney or the prospective adoptive family, or the foster placement. All

Dawn Davenport  40:32  
right. So that's how it works with relatives. What if a family has gone on adopt us kids, or, let's say looked at another state's Heart Gallery found a child that they think would be a good fit for their family, they contact the child's caseworker who is usually listed on those directories. They send their home study to the child's caseworker with the hope that they will be matched and selected. And let's say they are selected. What is the process at that point? Are they allowed to visit with the child? What's the actual practical steps at that point? The family has another state. And then we're going to talk about ICPC. But before we do that, just practically, you know, they're strangers at this point. So how do they are visitations allowed? How does that work? Yeah,

Speaker 3  41:18  
yeah, so that might be a visitation. There might be some times where there would be like picnics or things where many kids are there and prospective adoptive parents go to these events, there's an awkwardness to it, admittedly, where you're trying to see if this is a good fit, and the child understands, because usually, they are of such an age to understand that maybe there's an adoptive family out there. Right now. They're free for adoption, and they haven't been adopted. And it's important to have some time for a connection to be built. It might be a few hours at a time, leading to some placements for a weekend and eventually, when that transition is complete, and hopefully you have some good social work involvement, helping to understand the child's needs, the prospective adoptive parents needs and building that attachment, which clearly isn't going to happen prior to placement, it's going to be starting something that we hope to build. And that's another reason why hopefully, the adoption may take months to finalize, because you know, there's probably going to be a period of time where there's a bit of a honeymoon period. And then people kind of try each other on for size. And after a while, there's a sense of connection, a family of attachment. And there's a beautiful thing to bring that to closure. So there is that ICPC component. But for a child free for adoption, it's really something that's likely to be handled by the sending state. You know, if the child's in care, then the Department of Social Services or Child Protective Services is likely to see that through at little or no expense for the adoptive parent.

Dawn Davenport  42:58  
And with visitations between states, a logical way that often happens is that the adoptive parents have to travel to the state where the child is. And ideally, they plan on spending a fair amount of time because what we would like to see, and this is in an ideal world and having to be honest here, that doesn't always happen. But where you meet the child, wherever they're currently living, you spend some time in their environment, you take them out for a short time, go grab something to eat, or go to the park, throw the ball, do something along those lines, bring the child back, and then gradually keep the child for a longer period of time and then bring the child to spin you're at this point staying in either a hotel are it's important to know that it's not going to be just fly in and get the child there. Hopefully, that's not the case, you're in a hotel. So you bring the child back to the hotel, just spend the night swim in the hotel pool, that type of thing, then bring the child back home. It's expensive at this point you're staying in another state. It is usually expedited. But we don't want it to be expedited so much that it's not fair to the child. In an ideal world, it would be over a gradual period of time. That's doesn't always happen when you're traveling between states. It just doesn't and that's unfortunate. Adoption subsidies are available for most children who are adopted through foster care and a subsidy as a cash payment to help offset the additional cost of raising this child. It's usually similar to whatever the foster care board payment is whatever the payments that the foster parents are getting. So which state pays that if the child is being adopted, and the child is from Missouri and it's now moving to a Kansas family is in Kansas that pays it because a child is now living there are Missouri that pays the adoption subsidy. And it's not just the money payment it could also be you know the Medicaid it can also be if they have paying for college tuition, there's a lot of benefits associated, they use that word in quotes, there's not a lot of benefits to being in foster care, I meant financial benefits that accrue to a child who has been in foster care. So which state is responsible for those?

Speaker 3  45:16  
The sending state, the state that's making the placement of the child from their foster care system will pay that adoption subsidy. And keep in mind that when you're a foster parent, you're often receiving these monthly subsidies. But that amount can continue posted option for that 18 plus years. I think a lot of families who are considering whether or not they are able to do this, perhaps don't realize there's some help. There's post adoption services, there's Medicaid, and there's this monthly amount in South Carolina, it's probably $700. But if a child has significant special needs, that amount may be 1000 or $1,200 or so under our South Carolina system, similar in other states, the amount that the family receives in adoptive care cannot exceed what the child received in foster care, but it can equal that about God this federal law. Yeah.

Dawn Davenport  46:14  
Jim, you've mentioned that, that we have monetary payments that are available to families adopting from foster care, but also the child is likely eligible for Medicaid. How does that work when you've got kids between two different states because Medicaid is handled on a state basis? So how does that work?

Speaker 3  46:34  
Absolutely. There is a another compact, we've talked about the interstate compact on the placement of children. There's an interstate compact for adoption and medical assistance. And this is a requirement that says hey, if a child moved from state A to state B and is now in state B, state these Medicaid is going to cover so a child with special needs, for instance, who is a resident of that state should be entitled to ongoing benefits. We can't allow that federal safety net to be dropped just because the right home for a child happens to be in a different state. And that interstate compact for adoption and medical assistance assures that that safety net is in place. Excellent.

Dawn Davenport  47:17  
Well, thank you so much, Joan Smith and Jim Thompson, for being with us today to talk about adopting a child from another state. I need to do a shout out to our long time partner hopscotch adoption. They have been with us for a very long time have been such supporters of creating a family in general and this show is specific. And hopscotch adoptions is a hay accredited international adoption agency, placing children from Armenia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Georgia, Ghana, Guiana, Morocco, Pakistan, Serbia, and Ukraine. They specialize in the placement of kids with special needs, especially Down Syndrome kids, and they also do a lot international adoptions. They place children throughout the US and they offer home study services and post adoption services for residents of North Carolina and New York.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai