Cowboys Break: Wrapping Up OTAs

Nick why are you laughing? I don't know, but remember Garcia at your host for the day with all right, gang NICKI, David Hellman. We have a very unusual guest on the show, mister Derek. Wow. How are you? Derek? I'm good. Anything you would like to say to your fans out there that have been missing you? Any numbers you want to provide? Well, it is episode number twelve,

No A number eleven. I'm sorr episode number eleven and uh and I really don't have anything to say because I don't really have fans other than maybe my wife, my kids. How many episodes of those of those eleven? Have you been here for three? I knew I was gonna face this, but I got here today, so I was I was ready for it. It's you know, I have things to do. I have other business responsibilities in the building. Boss stuff, yeah, boss man, boss man doing.

Of course, last week was more personal, but most of weeks is business. Okay, Well, we're happy you're back here. Thank joining us, Thank you. I'll take care of your role today. I heard you did a good job though last year. A. Yeah, she's been she's actually been really good. I actually enjoyed listening to the show with her hosting, So that's why she's doing it today. You got Tony Romode. Yeah,

I don't know. That's funny because she was told that she's gonna do a Wally Pip and she was like, I don't know, she has no idea how Luke Garrett, you don't need to say. You don't need to say Wally pips, say Tony. Okay, well let's jump right into this whole show. I'm just gonna run through the list of the guys that didn't practice yesterday. Terence William, Ellie Collins, Terren Smith, The Marcus Florence, Sean Lee, Charles Stapford, Tackle

Deanta Thompson, Cedric Wilson. Can I stop you real quick? What if you just list the guys who did anything did something. Yeah, but Joe Louni and Cony Ealy now late in vanders I just wanted to mention him real quick.

He got an injury, an injury on his ankle, nothing serious, not a big deal, but it was more a precautionary which prompted the questions from fans asking this whole thing about injuries and what happened last year at training camp, the whole you know, hamstrings, and how that prevented some of the guys to step into at the beginning of the season. How is that? And this is hard to answer, but help me out here and try to figure this out. How is this? How could the Cowboys possibly prevent this

from happening again? I think they can prevent it by doing exactly what you just read yesterday and just keep those guys out and everything that they do. Yeah, they'd like them out here, but if they've got any sign of soreness or being tired fatigued, you got you know,

an injury here and there, hold them out. And these fans that are upset by what they see and read, they'd be a lot more upset if they just pushed them really hard here and then they're out for like six months, So I think the Cowboys were doing exactly what you should do at this point. It's just get them out there, but be very cautious of anything that happens. So in case this happens again, let's say with some

of these rookies how we saw happening last year. Is this something that the Cowboys could handle and be okay at the beginning of the season with certain positions? What are y'all thoughts? What do you what do you mean? Like, are you talking about the depth of this position if

somebody gets hurt at training camp? Yeah? Okay. For example, last year we got two guys on the second theory that guy her and the Cowboys were kind of able to yeah, signific to get him out of most of it, in fact, and you see Ryan Swiss are but his They were able to cover that and handle that. But at certain positions that are more key to the game.

I mean, that's like that's the age old thing with football, right I mean, like it looks good right now, but yeah, tell me who's missing in for how long and I'll tell you how big of a problem it is. I mean, if if Layton Vanderesh having a gimpy ankle right now doesn't concern me at all, But if he can't go for a significant chunk of train camp, that's a little

more problematic. Same with Connor Williams as well. These first and second round picks are a lot different than they were last year as far as how much that they're expected to contribute. I will say with you know, knock on Wood, I have sky high expectations for Connor Williams, but I'd feel far better about him being unavailable than Layton Vanderesh, just because of the situation with your linebackers as opposed to your offensive line. But honestly, I feel

pretty good about the depth that most positions. They're only really two positions. I think depth could be a problem. I think linebackers one of them, um and I think safety Z other safety c obvious one. But I think outside of that, I'm I'm hard pressing. I'm may be missing one, but I'm hard pressed to think of a position where I'm I'm thinking that, Well, they got a hundred of them that they're gonna now they're all yeah, but ninety nine of them are unproven. Okay, and that's good.

But guess what You're going into the season with unproven receivers. You accepted that we made the decisions, you made a soft season. I don't know that an injury changes that, right, Yeah, you're right. So so I just think those two positions. To me, I look at those two positions, and those are the ones I'm most concerned about death. I mean, yeah, definitely, Well you go down and down, all right. I don't want to kill the thing. Okay, no, no, and that's true.

I mean, quarterback goes down for most teams around the league. You're except for the Super Bowl champ, you're probably in trouble, right. I don't want to have to play more than a couple of games without Zeke. I mean, if we're really just taking a look at it. But there's a difference between depth and I know, my greatest my star players, right, I'm being a smartass. Thank you, Dave. Yeah, okay, let's just it's another subject. There was something that came up yesterday.

I thought it was really a fun fact about the left tackle position and some of the guys on the old line that have played at that spot and why they've become nowaday and what this may mean to Lyle Collins future. Do you do you guys know what happened there with that position? Plenty to me, Dave, you wrote to Colin, I was there. Yeah, so go ahead, I'll

let you get into those guys. Well, it's interesting, which it's always fun when a player is like, yeah, that's really interesting, Like I thought about that, because usually players don't want to talk about whatever you're asking about. But yeah, it's it's an interesting point that four of the five presumed starters on the offensive line have played left tackle at some point in their career. That includes Lyle, Zach Martin, Connor Williams, and Tyron Smith. Really, Travis Frederick is the

only presumed starter who's never spent time out there. And Lyle said it himself. He's like, you know, at least Lyle, He's like, at least I think that your left tackles your best guy. So you've got four guys who were the man for their offensive line at some point and which he was basically like, I don't really know what to do with that information. But it's cool though. Yeah, it's cool. It's a cool little fact. I think it's similar.

It is a cool fact, and I think it would but it just goes to show that you've got talented players. I think you could probably go to every NBA team, every baseball team and say at some point you batted clean up and you pitched, and you were the center, you know, at some point, because it just shows you were a badass at Now. The interesting part is most of the that is college though, right, Yeah, no, I

think not just high school Tyrn. Tyron is the only guy among them that's played left tackle in the pros. But but but yeah, no, I mean, Lyle was the first team All Conference left tackle, Zach was for a second team All American left tackle, Yeah, and Connor was first team All Big Twelve. I mean they all were accomplished left at big schools. Yeah, that's that's impressive. Do you think that any of that um makes the Cowboys feel better?

If knock on wood, you know, let's say in the next two or three years, Tyn gets to the point where neck, back a are bigger issues, and he's like, I'm ready to retire, I'm ready to give it up. I'm just this is just as soon the first time that's been thrown out to you know. Oh, yes, well he had a little bit more. She was a little

more emphatic than I was. But but no, I'm just saying, does that make you feel better because you have some players here, some really good players here, that have had some experience at left tackle, and you don't feel like you're completely exposed if something like that should happen. I think so, And I think you definitely have some experience guys at left tackle. Really, what it shows me more than anything is that you have an athletic line. You have line with a good feet that can get on

the move. Obviously, to play left tackle, you're gonna have to have some some good feet. So I think that that's what it shows me, is that you've got two guards that can actually you know, that have had that kind of ability mobility too. I gotta see it happened before I say that they won't be exposed, because they

got exposed big time last year because of that. But you know, I'm I'm I'm starting to become a believer that Lyle could do that at some point in his career if if need be, or you know, when his contract runs out here, if he wants to test the market, or however that plays out, like, he could probably do that. And I think I'll I just Zach Martin's one of those guys where I'm like, yeah, you can fly sure,

like whatever whatever you want to do. Like, yeah, Zach probably has X ray vision, like I'll do Like, I just think he can do anything. So and that's all. Also just considering the fact that Tyron is probably I saw you tweeted yesterday when he's helped, he's probably the best left tackle in football. So no matter who you put out there, it's may not be as good as the best tackle in football, but you may be able to get by because you have guys that have some

experience and they're good players. Well that's I mean, that's the flip side of that, is like, oh, these guys are also good. They all played left tackle in college. Well, Tyron's the first team All Pro in the pros, right, so big difference. Yeah, he's the man on this line, which is different from being the man at LSU. The hope is that you haven't for a very very long time, I hope. So yeah, fingers crossed for a healthy O line this year. Okay, so now let's get into some

exciting things regarding Tavon Austin. And that's a guy that we discussed last week and the week before and kind of what is his role gonna be with the Cowboys. We haven't seen them. We came to the conclusion that maybe the Cowboys were kind of hiding him away from other teams and keeping him like a secret weapon. Well, now we finally saw him with the first team and kind of everywhere doing a little bit of everything. So what did you guys think about his role in how

the Cowboys utilized him? Yesterday? I have no choice but to assume that somebody over there listens to our show and they were like, whoa, we don't want Dave to be mad, so we better show Tavon at the next OTA because yeah they did. I mean, you know, it's

still OTAs, but we just got to see TV. He was running some all the stuff that you would think of him doing, Like he took some carries out of the backfield, he was lined out wide, he was lined up in the slot, took some they did some jet sweep stuff like nothing that you couldn't have guessed that he would do, but he was just doing it. So that was fun to see. I love him as a gadget guy, like just being able to do all those

different things. I mean, he's not going to be a guy that's going to be a starter per se, but he's gonna get opportunities and he's gonna get opportunities to make play for this team, which I think they've kind of missed in the last few years, having just kind of a guy that can do a little bit of everything that can present. You know, people always talk about we hear fansay at all the time, and we've actually

mentioned it on our show. By the creativity of this offense and not having it at times, I think this guy ultimately gives you a ton of ability to be creative and come up with some good opportunities for your offense. I think he'll go as far as Zeke can help take him. I think this running game, this offensive line in the running game, if they are doing what they're supposed to be doing, then I think guys like Tavon

Austin can really benefit from that. I don't know if she's going to be a starter first team, but he's gonna be out there doing a lot of things. And what I like the most is but what we were able to do the last few days and talk to a lot of players and we're putting together a package on speed and the fastest guy on the team, and you got the answer, Oh it's Tavon for sure. By a lot of people that said Tavon is still the fastest by far. So yeah, good. I just think that

that's a good thing. I mean, it's a good I mean a lot of people think, well, he's not what he was or he's been a bus He can run, and he hasn't always had the running game around him. Yeah, Girly had had a great year last year, but he was banged up a lot. He hasn't always had a great running game that he could kind of benefit from. And to the Rams credit, you don't draft the guys seventh overall to benefit off someone else. He's supposed to be the playmaker. As it turns out, he needed help.

He's got it here in Dallas. Talk a little bit about both you guys out all three you guys, talk a little bit about the speed on this team because we we for years talked about he Neil Moore speed, especially a wide receiver. They get Tavon Austin, they get Deonte Thompson. Uh, you know you got Zeke who can run obviously, Um, talk about the speed this year versus

last year. You know, do you see it as a big upgrade in speed and how do you think that translates when when game time, game time comes, Well, let's just look at like the Atlanta game or any of those games. I guess that Zeke was out. You know, you look at a game like that, how many positions are they faster than they were before? I mean Atlanta game. Obviously your left tackles is faster than than you know, I think tyrans mets a better athlete than Chazz Green,

but the running back is going to be better. You're tight end is going to be more athletic. He's I don't know if he's anything else, but he's going to be more athletic. And your wide receivers are going to be more athletic, I think, than than what you had in that game. So that's just one game. But I'm just saying that, I think from an athletic standpoint, you're seeing it a lot. I steal this from Well, you weren't here anyway, so you don't know I'm stealing it

from Nick, but I listened there. They're side their side to side, their lateral speed encourages me like Tavon, we've seen Deontay Thompson can do some of those types of things. Plus he has that downfield speed. I don't think of the rest of it, Like, I don't think it's going to be drastically different intern I mean's Zeke Zeke. I don't like Alan Hearns isn't faster than Dez. I wouldn't imagine Terrence's Terrence. So I don't think it's like this

drastic difference. But there is that element, which you know, I talked about this yesterday with somebody during practice. I was like, you know, nothing logically dictates that Tavon Austin has to make this team, Like he's not commanding this crazy salary or anything like that. But I just think it's almost a given that he's going to because of

that element that he can bring. Where again, you know, you go back to Lucky Whitehead, even when he's not getting the ball, you have to respect that he's moving across the formation more so than Lucky white Yeah, and just all that type of stuff. So, like, I do think there's an element that they didn't have last year where they have a couple of guys who can threaten that way? Is it at all concerning to you, guys,

that an offense is good as Saint Louis's. Actually, la the Rams last year wasn't able to find a more a larger role for a guy like this that has those kinds of skills, Because you think about it, Nick, you were talking about how much Zeke would help and will Todd Gurley is an equally great running back, right, and it's is it somewhat troubling to you at all that they weren't able to find that right way to be able to get the most out of him that we suspect the Cowboys will have to try to get

out of him. I would say that's the concerning part of it. But what gives me hope, it's the fact is when you see the coaches talking so well about him and how excited they are to have him on the team, and seeing his teammates reaction and appreciation and recognition of what kind of speed he has and the kind of athlete he is. So when you see something like that, it makes you excited and you hope that

they will find the right spot for him. And as we saw yesterday, they were trying him out at different places kind of they have enough time to figure that out over time during training camp, and it was good to see them finally doing that inexperimenting with him. I'm looking for the quote of what Lenahan said about him yesterday? Do you remember that. I wasn't at Lenahan yesterday. But it doesn't concern me at all because it goes back

to expectation. Like the only the only way that that could disappoint me is if I was expecting him to come in and like, I don't. He's not going to make a Pro Bowl. That's not what I'm looking for.

I don't. I'm not looking for a thousand yards rushing or receiving or you know, I want him, you know, I expect him to be the primary return man punt and kick, and I think it's realistic to think that you can find a way to get him six or seven touches a game on top of that, So you're talking about ten to fifteen touches probably, Like if he carries the ball fifty times this season and catches the

ball twenty times, I think that's a great start. And again you're talking not just about what he can actually do, but the perception what the defense has to a out for him being on the field. Is DA going to give it to him or is it going to go to Zeke? What's going on here? Like it you're making a mistake if you're thinking of him as this Pro Bowl acquisition. But I do just I think of him as a wrinkle who probably rip off five to ten big plays this year and just be a constant mismatch threat.

And so that's why it doesn't worry me, because that's I mean, he did that for the Rams last year. He was banged up and they didn't use him consistently, but I think he had four or five six hundred all purpose yards by the will against the Cowboy. Yeah, he had a great game against which I wrote about this and I've talked about it on Twitter. If you want to see what I think he can do here, go watch that game, because I think he caught two

balls and had six carries for fifty yards. Like he didn't get a game ball, but he was a valuable piece of that offense, which I think he can do that here. Did you find that right? Yeah? But I mean, yeah, I get through the sermon there, he said. Lenahan said, sorry, I like to inform people. Yeah it was good. Okay, um he said today I don't know, No, it's fine, it's fine. It was one of those things like in the moment, you know, it's like he just said, is

he a wide receiver or running back? Which Lenihan has asked this all the time. You know, that's what happens when you do these weekly media sessions. Guys come up, you know, they haven't been here all the time. But he says, is he a wide receiver? Running back? He's like, he's Tavon. I mean, he can line up anywhere at any time or place. So that's cool to say that. Let's see if Lindahan does that. I mean, that sounds good, and they he did mention also, he's actually jumping between

the wide receiver in the running back room. I know I read that somewhere heard that as well. Not I don't think that's quite hope, that's not accurate. And we've seen him more on a wide receiver. That's they're not going to give you a diagram for what he's doing. But like a week or two ago, Lenahan was like, well, like he's in the receiver's room. But the thing about all these rooms is that they're close together, like he

can find his way over the running back. What are the option I mean, what are the it's the chance that he is going to have a go route that he's gonna go sixty yards down the field and Deck's gonna throw them the ball like, slim to none. Slim to none, I think. So, I mean, I think there's a chance that that'll happen. He'll run deep at some point. What are the chances that on third and one with Uni a first down, he's gonna run the ball right

up the middle? Slim to none. So, I mean, I think he's more of a team that I saw i'd give the ball to. Was that called Beasley on a up the middle? No, but you know it was like third or fourth and one and wide receiver? I think a receiver. He's a web web back, web back. You're talking about a guy who's gonna get ninety percent of his touches within five yards of the line of scrimmage this year. I would bet that. I'll bet that too.

I'm with you. So I think No, I think he's he's a receiver, but he's gonna like he's gonna he's gonna carry the ball carry the ball forty to sixty times this year. That's probably a better question. Is he gonna carry it more than he's not gonna catch it forty times to go? No, I think you'll have more carries than catch us, no doubt. But he's I still think of him as a receiver. No. But to go to Nick's point, like I just said, like, there's nothing that dictates he have to has to make this team.

But like a week ago, Lenahan was like, call him a tight end if you want to just get him on the team, Like, which, whatever, if you're a coordinator is saying that, Like, well, Scott Linahan wants him here. I know that, so I'm going with that. I think the annoying part to me is when when people are trying to you know, you're trying to get the roster figured out right now, so it's like who's gonna make the team running back or who's gonna make a receiver.

So they're like, okay, well count Tavon as a running back, Like that doesn't help you, Like you still need enough backs to do what you need to do. Just by calling him a running back doesn't mean you can now go along at receiver because he doesn't help you like your other running backs would help you. And if a running back goes down, it's like he's gonna step in there and become your Guy's going to carry it twenty times in a game, right, right, Okay, he's a gag

for them. Yes, let's go ahead and take a quick break. When we come back, we're gonna I want you guys to tell me who your favorite wide receiver is at this tape point. Stop there, you're ruining it, and then we'll get into the secondary when we come It's actually fun being able to be on this side. It can be hard to find the right resource for learning about important financial matters. You search how to build savings, you end up reading about the one weird ingredient from supermarkets

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and turf equipment of the Dallas cow Boys. Find textacized deals in my John Dear Dealer dot com slash football Terms Conditions, exclusions, who warranty limitations apply? Should you love for details? Back to the break? All right, guys, we are back on the break. Where are you going to discuss who these guys' favorite white receiver is? At this point, Derek lost his turn because he already gave it away Taborn Austin. But have another one? Okay? Anything else you

want to say Derek on this matter? Sure it would be I'll throw mine out first. It's still for me. Cole Beasley, I actually am excited that this year I want to see if Cowboys can figure out a way to create mismatches and create opportunities for him. I think last year, way too often he was being taken out of opportunities to be able to catch the ball. And I think if the Cowboys think of some more creative ways to get him open, I think he can be

a really valuable asset for them. And so I'm hopeful that they'll do that, and I think if they do it, I actually believe when it's all said and done, Cole

could leave this team in receptions. Do you see that happening with the Cowboys now not having players such as Jason Witten, that's Brian on the team, right, do you think now other teams, I mean, they're gonna be able to find or see all some of this new guys as a threat to where Cole Beasley is now getting open or I think the way I look at it is, I think it's about what you do with your offensive

skill players to create opportunities for them. Way too often we see the Cowboys opponents using rub routes and that kind of stuff, and it kills the Cowboys, and I wish they would do more of that kind of stuff. I think there are ways that the Cowboys could try to get guys like Cole Beasley open because he's the type of receiver that I think. He's got good athleticism, he's quick, he catches the ball well, you get him a little bit of space, I think he can actually

make some plays for you. So I'm hopefully that they'll actually find ways, they'll look for ways try to be creative to get him open rather than just kind of matching him up in the slot and whatever happens happens. I think that that might be that's to me, not taking advantage of the opportunity you have with him. Yeah. Enough, that's a good choice, Okay, Nick, And the question his favorite receiver at this point, yeahs based on everything that

you've seen so far, idots, based on everything I've seen. Okay, because I'm my favorite receiver is Katie Cannon. That's the one I want to make the team because your boy. Yeah. Well, because when he was not getting drafted, I was like, why aren't the Cowboys drafting this guy? Why aren't they signing him in free agency? Then he got cut a couple of times, why aren't they bringing him in? And I even asked the question to two coaches and to personnel guys. I'm like, this guy is better than the

six guys you've got I've said that. Now, how's he done enough? Right now? Is he still on the best six? You know, I think he's got a shot for it. It's he can run. I'm not gonna say, well, he's not getting the opportunities because he's not gonna get as many opportunities. This is what happens. I mean, but you got to earn it when you get it. I think he's gonna he's gonna He even said it himself. He's got to learn the playbook a little bit more, but

from a speed standpoint, he's got it. He's just gonna have to play. He's gonna have to be one of those guys that makes plays in preseason games when he gets chances and stuff. But um so he's my favorite guy kind of as a you know, pet cat type.

Um But a guy that I'm really interested in the most would be Tavon just because I think he's he gives you that speed element, he gives different things, and if he's going laterally then I think it'll open up things more vertically for other receivers like a Gallup or Terrence Williams or maybe Deonte. I'm on the Herns train here I'm here. I like this variety of picks. You know, everybody we Well, Beasley's gonna make the team, like Alan Alan Hearns is gonna start at the X. I mean,

he's just he's gonna get all that opportunity. The rest of this is kind of conjecture, you know. I mean, Katie Can's got a chance to make the team. Noah Brown has been my pet cat for since he got drafted. But Alan Herns is gonna get a lot of opportunities to show what he can do. And I think he's up to it too. So he's probably the most if you look at just overall the the the accomplishments on the field statistically, of this wide receiver corps, he's by

far the most accomplished to this group. You know, but I'm glad you it's sort of like you read my column because that like you were just getting but hey, you were just saying. You were like, oh, you think he's gonna be one of the six? Well I think there could be seven, honestly, But regardless, I was writing this column and I was like, well, yeah, Alan Hearns is the most accomplished receiver on this team. Beasley and

Terrence to both have more career catches than him. Really, yeah, that none of them, No one has had a better year than he had. He is two or three years the only receiver on this team with a one thousand yards seas right, But Terrence has him beat by like

fifty or sixty catches for career. Is that because he's had a longer career or they had the same career, came in around the same time, a little longer career and probably a better quarterback from a Well, that's also the part of it that you have number is too. The quarterback that Hearns was with had one great year and that was the year that Hearns had a great year. Outside of that, his quarterback has been really bad. Crap on him however much you want, but he's been pretty bad.

Terrence has never missed the game in his pro career, I don't believe. So that's good thing. He was on the list that we just did top thing pencil and this is just me speaking, but we'll miss a game this year. Herns, Terrence Cole, and I think Tavon Austin are locks to make the team, assuming no injuries and all that stuff. Oh I'm sorry, you're right, and they're okay, So you already got five that are definite. That's I mean,

I think so. So they're all battling for one to two spots basically all the rest of the running back, which is why I think. I mean, uh, you know, you talk about you got it, what you you got one hundred receivers and ninety nine of them haven't done anything well, quality over quantity. Then I mean, if you can find a way to keep seven, maybe you do that, and you can change that as the season goes along and guys kind of show their stuff. But problem is

you need to keep five tight ends. See I'm thinking three tight ends. Tight ends are not gonna I don't think tight end will be as big of a position, Like they won't use the tight end as much as they use the tight end three and a half. I think when they want to go big, they'd rather just bring an extra offensive rather than having two or three tight ends on the field. You know, Yeah, well, what are you gonna say? I was telling him, I don't know if you heard that, Olah, wally is could be

some tight ends. Well so he's James Hannah. Yeah, okay, I was wanting to jump now over to the defense side. One of the biggest topics during the off season, aside from the whole desk Bryan and then went in, it was Byron Jones and his whole change of position moving out to the corner. After seeing three weeks of Oltas, what were your impressions of Byron being at corner? Now? How has he been doing at that position? For me personally, I haven't noticed that being a problem, which is a

good thing when you're talking about the corner. So I think he's you know, he's he's picking it up well. And remember there's a reason why he moved, just because it's the preference of the defensive backs coach christ Richard. You know, he likes to guys to play a certain way and they wants him to have a kind of a certain size to him. And so so far, so good, I think, But then again, he goes back to what we just talked about. Is anybody really, you know, challenging

him to the point where he's exposing him? So right now, I think it's been okay. He made a really great breakup on a pass last week, like great, Other than that, I don't, I mean, it's so hard to judge stuff like like, yeah, training camp is so much easier because there's one on ones every day and it's a little you know, the team periods are more physical and we're allowed like full access to the field so you can

go down right on the line of scrimmage. So from from fifty yards away for two hours a week, he looks fine to me. And what's going to be really hard. I think this year during OTAs and training camp is really going to be trying to evaluate these cornerbacks because there is no great wide receiver on the opposite side.

You're not gonna face guys like you always, I mean last year, over the last several years, you always can gauge kind of how good a cornerback is playing when he up against Diz, because Dez has just these remarkable skills that being able to defend him shows you a little bit more about the cornerback. I don't think there's a receiver like that right now on this team. This is a team that again is going to rely on the quantity of receivers and finding the open guy versus

having one stud guy. So when you go up against Atlanta and that's when you're gonna find out a lot about these cornerbacks when they have to face a guy like Julio Jones. You won't see that during training. That's a really great point. Yeah, gotta be saved that for the last three weeks. Gotta be good for you. I'll be careful about falling into that trap this year and people are still mad at us for blowing up and last year, oh about training camp and then yeah, you

let me down this road. You can only talk about what you see, but just be careful. We think we have to be really careful this year about that with a cornerback. You remember, and this might be a segue. I don't know what's on your list, but this might. You remember a few years ago when we were really really worried about Tyrant Smith because DeMarcus Ware was just wearing him killing them in training camp, like this is not good. It's great for DeMarcus. He still got it.

As the year turned out, one of them made the Pro Bowl for the first time and the other one was the game games and kind of was kind of limped through the finish line or to the finish line there. So sometimes which see in camp isn't always what happens here. Okay, well we'll get into the safety position a little bit. Let's just keep talking about DeMarcus Ware and his involvement here on the team and how the things he's been doing.

I mean it's pretty impressive. And you look at the guy, how fit and healthy he looks, and how he's out there helping these guys out. I mean, what, how can this impact the players that he's helping out? Can my guy get a contract? My god? If he wanted to play good? I mean he looks, yeah, he's ready to go. I don't know what he's training for. I guess just because you follow on Twitter, he's working out every day. I know that's I'm like, I saw a picture I

think maybe on the website. I don't know, but I saw a picture and I had to go back and Dustin Marcus. Where am I wait? Was that is that him? Yeah? It is, And he's a guy that has been stopped it there. I'm in the news business now. So anyways, Um, one of the guys that he has spoken about is Taco Charlton, and he's seen the progress and development on a guy like Taco, a guy that has been criticized by many on Twitter and people that keep asking, is Tacko gonna step up this year and be better? Have

you guys seen any progress from Taco? And I know it's hard to tell right now, but is that something that leads you to think that he's gonna be really? I mean, yeah, impact makes some kind of seen a huge improvement in one area. Confidence. He's very confident now. Um, just in some of the interviews we've seen him, he's just old Daddy Taco right now. He says he's the best trash best trash talker in the on the team

right now. And as we talked he said, as we talked about last week, is beat tyrant Smith twice in a row talk trash to him and then we'll be on board with that. But I think what really what DeMarcus said is maturity's the number one thing he's seen out of him. And he's got different tools in the toolbox for this year, so that he's showing the you know, at least he's showing it to DeMarcus. It's a little tricky with him though, I mean, he's not here all

the time. He's here, he's a consultant, he's here. He's also with the Broncos, so I mean, he goes from Denver here, so he's seeing von Miller and then he comes here. So I mean, I'm just saying that differ. You know, you're not here all the time, so you're not seeing every every day, every practice and all that. But still you got the all time leading sack artist

in Cowboys history helping out. I'm sure. I mean, sure it's good, but you know, that's all nice, but at the end of the day, the players still got to play. I mean, they've had Haley here. Hay he comes around, he talks to the guys, whatever he does with the guys and tries to give them tips and that kind of stuff. I don't I don't know that that necessarily

changes anything. There's certain certainly probably things they can pick up from them, But at the end of the day, they got coaches, they got people that are already investing in trying to develop them. But then Marcus gets in there and like you, I get all that and to trust me, I'm not saying that that couldn't be, like they can't learn things from him, but at the end of the day, they're not him, and and sometimes you know,

it's kind of like Michael Jordan Michael. You know, Michael Jordan's not a coach because Michael Jordan knows how to do things that other people. Yeah, yeah, you just tell them. But just when he gets just take him by the jersey and just shove him back. Right, Can you just repeat what I did? Like, isn't that hard to do? Can you just do it? It's not it's not the same, right, Guys that have had to work their way to maybe they have a lot more tools to be able to sing.

I mean, who's the greatest defensive I mean, who's the greatest coach in NFL history that was a great player? Oh Man, Mike Ditka Yeah, single Terry. But he wasn't a great coach coach I'm trying to think. I mean, you know you just Skerm Edwards. You see like good solid players like you know, yeah, no they don't. Tomlin was a plan you know, Jeff Fisher, Dungee, they were they were just you know, they were. Dune was probably the best. He's a Hall of Fame coach. He was

a player. I'm talking about right now, like a was a player. No no, no play no, no, I'm not talking about I'm talking about great player, great coach. Yeah, because DeMarcus. DeMarcus was asked twice yesterday and I don't know if he changed his mind in about sixteen minutes, but he was asked once an interview that I was I was at and he was like, are you gonna be a coach one day? And he was like no. God. Then later I hear, Yeah, DeMarcus talked in the locker room and he said he one day he wants to

be a coach. I was like, oh, oh, what changed his mind? Mike Doocey, It was awesome, Like he he was like, well, you you kind of want to scratch this itch, but you know you can make better money doing like TV and stuff and where it was like, yeah, absolutely. Dick Lebow was he a great player? I don't know he he played in the thirties, right, he played a long time ago? But night at night train lane? Who I don't know whatever? Train lane? Okay, I have no idea. Okay,

let's jump into the safety position. We have to we kind of do and say, is this our weekly reference to another safety? Like is that what we just know? No? This is me and Amber's weekly like worry fact. Nick implies something about the Seattle, same script every week. All right, let's go, let's go through the pace. I just wanted to get your thoughts on this scenario. We know the Cowboys having guy any of you guys obviously at the safety position. It's not too early to do that early

they wanted to do that. Sorry, grant me the serenda. We know that the guys has spoken about the possibility of moving some of the corners to the safety position to help out there if needed. Now. Cheeto a woozy kind of talked about it yesterday in regards to if they asked him too, He's ready, he could play any of the any position there, he could do it. But he did say that he as of right now, the talk is he is a corner and that's where he's

gonna be at now. If that happens and Cheeto is moved to safety for any reason, why would be your expectations there and how would that secondary now look and change if that was to happen. What I've always I've hated this topic of conversation since they brought it up after the draft, and that's because we just sat here saying, what can you really learn from OTAs? You know, like

it's shorts, it's blah blah blah. And I think you made the really good point last week that like you can tell who's picking up the playbook in the scheme during this period. But Byron's played safety and Cheeto has done everything during the course of his career, So like, neither one of those guys is gonna I trust that both of them can pick all of this up. So, like, what are you learning here that's going to prompt you

to make that switch? Basically? You know what I mean, Like, what what are these three weeks really going to show you where you're like, well, we gotta move somebody. I could kind of answer that, I mean, at least least I mean, I think what you look at a couple of players number when you're looking in at Xavier Woods, You're looking at you know, how has he given you the confidence to play that position that we don't need

to make that move? Or on the flip side, or their cornerbacks that are in that mix, like Anthony Brown playing really well, Jordan Lewis playing really well. Is there a young guys is there Duke Thomas? Is there somebody that's that's stepping up to that point where you're like, our depth at corner is way better than our depth at safety. That's where I could see that happening and making a move. We've seen it before. When what's better

tackle or end? And that's where Tyrone Crawford's gonna go accordingly, But do you think that Cheeto right now is one of your best two corners? Yes? Yes, yeah, Because if he's one of your best two corners, I don't like the idea of taking one of your best also starting guys and moving them to another another. Another thing I really hate, just at any position, is like, well we've got really good depth, let's get rid of some of it. I hate that it's so dumb Celtics are about to

do that. Um So, I mean, Byron's not gonna get anywhere unless you let him get comfortable at a position, and I until I'm proven otherwise. I have sky high expectations for what Cheeto can be as a corner, So I hate the idea of moving either one of them. I guess to answer your question more directly, if you're gonna play Cheeto at safety, then I would assume then it would you your trio would be Byron Brown and Jordan in whatever whoever you want to play the slot.

Brown and Jordan can both play either, so and whatever. The weird part here is, you know, Xavier Woods is kind of like the Tavon Austin on the other side, because he kind of can do a little bit of both. As he said, safety is he corner, is he slot? Guy can do so he's a wildcard to me in that scenario, even if he doesn't start at safety. But which I will say one thing, and I don't know much about him, but maybe we're not doing enough credit to Mark queston Huff. He's a forgotten guy and this

whole thing. They brought him in early in the offseason. He runs with the second team right now. Maybe they trust that he can push Xavier Woods. I haven't. I haven't seen him do anything bad, but I haven't seen him do anything great out here. I don't really know what to think of him. But every time I think about this, I'm like, oh, yeah, I forgot about that guy. You know what I'd like to see though, on passing down specifically, I'd like to see maybe what they do

is just get their best guys out there. If that means that Jordan's better than let's say, for example, one of the safeties, and that means you get Cheeto runs out there, Cheetos out there on a passing down at safety, but you've got your best five or six actual defensive backs on the field. Oh so, like you know, I kind I kind of would like to see them maybe rotate guys around a little bit in game. Now. I assume that's assuming he can do that without crippling his

ability to be a great corner. You're trying to do like the Patriots thing where like the Patriots run their front seven is just like you don't know who's playing what because it's just like six guys, right, And well, I'm just saying, if you can get away where you can get your best guys out there, and if Cheeto Cheeto and Jordan and Anthony Brown and you know, and Byron Jones happened to be among your best six, how can you get him all on the field or best five?

How can you get him all on the field on those passing down? Okay, but if Cheeto is heading shoulders the best corner, I'm talking like a great I don't want to say shut down corner. I don't know if that exists anymore. But if he's if he's the best thing the Cowboys have to that where you're facing a top notch receiver and if we might want to shadow him, I don't do it. Then you don't do what you don't do it right, And so you got to make sure if he's that good, because that can also help

your defense. If you've got a guy that can do you know, he can just follow a player all over the field. As much as I like Cheeto, I don't think he's there yet. I don't think he's there yet. I don't know that that would be a part of the equation. Just yet get there if you make them

change positions. Yeah, okay, Well let's take our final break real quick, and when we come back, we're gonna go around the room talk about the biggest ota standous Until now, Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your skincare should be no different. A long time locker room favorite of the players and the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Dallas based Jack Black is the number one best selling men's

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in our third segment off the break. But since Derek's our special guest of the day, we're gonna keep this going. I'm gonna tell us about some underwear, why it feels good and why is it so awesome? The go ahead, and I just say I'm wearing it now. It feels great. Go get your own? Yeah where uh yeah, Tommy John, get it at Tommy John dot com Forward Slash Cowboys for twenty percent off your first order Tommy John dot com Forward slash Cowboys. I give it a full endorsement.

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Thank you there for letting us know that. Now, we talked about the safety position and moving on from that. Aside from that position, what would be and I'm gonna ask each in one of you what would be the next position that at this point kind of still concerns you a little bit? Safety there? Sorry, Mats that I canna still concerns you. Do you want to go ahead

and go first? Um? I mentioned it earlier. Linebacker. Linebackers the position where I think we could get to the end of the season and I'm like, that was one of the best, if not the best position on the team for the season. I also think you could get to end of the season and be like it completely platooned them because it's all about the health of Sean Lee. Uh. And you know what's going to happen with Jalen Smith, Like, is Jalen Smith ready to be Is he there yet?

Is he at the point now where he can play at least at the level of what he played at Notre Dame, if not better. So that's where I think you have to have some real questions about the linebacker position. If all those things work out and then you add in a vander Ess who actually plays well or at least up to expectations, I think this linebacker position could be phenomenal. You know, last year, whenever Shanlee would go out, Anthony Hitchins, he did a really really good job by

taking leadership and stepping into that role. Do you see Jalen Smith kind of stepping into that role as far as the leader goes, I think Jalen Smith has leadership qualities. I also believe, though, in order to be a really good leader, I think you have to be a really

good player. That's just my personal belief, just because if not, then the moment things start going wrong and you're trying to tell someone whatever, They're gonna look at you like, well, you might want to get a little better at your job as well. But I do think you have to be a good player, and I think that if Jalen can take that next step, then yes, I think he has great leadership qualities and maybe he could provide that

sort of leadership. Yeah, let me ask you this. If it comes to pass that the linebacker situation just devolves into a disaster, I mean, can you kill him for that? Just in terms of I mean, I guess my point is, don't you feel like they did everything they could do within a realistic scope to fix it? Oh? Yeah, absolutely? All right, Well this is part of the larger point.

As long as long as as long as Sean Lee is here, you're gonna, especially at this age, you're gonna be susceptible to You're taking a chance every year that he could have an injury that keeps him out a significant amount of Shawn Lee's got his injury issues. That's just baked in, right, Jalen Smith has I mean, that's that's baked in at this point. It is what it is. Maybe he's better, we can't count on it. They signed I think a really underrated quality depth guy and Joe Thomas.

They spent their first round pick on a linebacker. If it turns out that it sucks, I can't kill them. Like that's the definition of hindsight is twenty twenty, you know what I mean? Like they did everything they could. Where I look at is defensive tackle, because I'm not convinced that the same can be said, because I mean, as it stands right now and this is the voluntary part of the offseason. I'm not killing David Irving for

not being here for that, but he's not here. The word on the street is that he's the conditioning is a problem and a whole host of other things that are going on. On top of that, Malik Collins broke his foot. They didn't draft a guy. They did bring on jahad Ward, who they feel good about, but again not like just not something that you you feel super great about. The unifactor in Price, I'm maybe I'm just

a lot at one technique. I thought last year before he got hurt, I thought he's playing really well for him. He did. He's not a guy where I'm just like, well, they'll be fine. They got Brian Price. There's not many one techniques that I'm just like, oh, they're great, Like that's a great Like, you know, one technique is one technique, but I think he played it really well datone. Dayton Jones is a guy worth mentioning. He's basically been starting

this whole month with MALIEK. Collins out. So and you know, mia culpa if I wind up being wrong, Like maybe these guys are better than I'm giving credit for. But on paper, I look at that and I'm like, you can't one hundred percent trust either. You're starting defensive tackles and I don't love what's behind him, So that concerns me. You could make the argument that if it doesn't go well at linebacker, that they could have done more by

signing Anthony Hitchins. Okay, I'm not done. I'm not gonna say if they're gonna cut Dez and not do anything with the money, I'm not gonna kill him for that, because I nobody loves Anthony Hitchins more than I do. I don't want to give him a fifty million dollars if they don't sign anybody else. They saved about eight million dollars with Dez Brian. If they don't sign anybody else,

then why didn't you? Why did you not get Anthony Hitchins back and then then draft, maybe draft the receiver instead of the linebacker or something else early you could It not also have been the fact that you just

couldn't do that. You look at the amount of money that they're paying, and maybe they're like, hey, we feel like we'd rather go younger with our linebackers rather than pay another guy because we're already not not they're paying Shawn Lee crazy money, but we're already paying him, So maybe we'd rather go younger and have some younger guys at linebacker, And that's that's better to us than paying another guy. Very very big, very big fan of Anthony Hitchins.

I'd rather be paying Layton vander esh whatever two million dollars than Anthony Hitchins fifty. That's just me though. Yeah, Nick, did you have any other position different from the ones that they just discussed hard now? Yeah, yep, this is like where I talked like, yeah, oh that is a that's one that's a little bit expecting that. I love Dan Bailey, you really, yeah, I do. I think he's great and trying to take his position. Oh I'm not.

I'm not like, go look at how many games gets get decided by a field goals back to what he was two years. I don't know what I don't want because unlike other people, you know what they might think, I am not there and all of his practices and rehabs and all that stuff. So I don't know. All we know is what we saw at the end of the year. I think he's gonna be fine. I definitely think he's gonna be fine. But if he's not, it changes the game. It changes the game. So I hope

he's fine. Everyone is pulling for him. I'm right there leading the charge. I'm just saying that is a position. You can't cover that up. Defensive tackle doesn't do well. You can kind of cover it up. Linebacker played well, stepped up, you make the kick or you don't. And you know, I just hope that's it's no issue at all. Right, somebody at camp, but nobody to compete with them, and which is probably a good thing he given moment, though, there are kickers on the street that you could go

I mean, they get it. Last year. There are kickers on the street you could go out and get if you got into this season end and he hasn't corrected the problem. But if it's to that point, than what happened before that Week six, they'll say that happen. But what happened in week five? Yeah, I get you. They lost a game, and they lost a game. They'reetting rid

of it, getting somebody else in here. This team, I don't know if you've noticed, but this team will just hover around eight and eight, nine and seven mark, and that you'll miss a game by one. So I'm just saying that could affect it. And again I'm not suggesting one thing or another. I just hope that he's back to the part where you're not even thinking about thirty five yard field goals or extra points. As good as he's been, I'm gonna trust and so I see different

that he's gonna I'm not with you there too. I'm just saying, not saying nothing you said is wrong. But I've put Dan in the same category as like Tyring, where I'm like, you get them all again, Like your track record is good enough and long enough that I think Adam Vinatieri, you know, there was a reason why. I don't know why, but there was a reason why you see the Patriots let him go. May have been money, may have been like, we can get another kicker in

here for last and they did, and they did. They have a great kicker as well. But but he's still kicking at a very high level. So uh, And it was an injury and all that stuff, I'm hope and no issue at all. But I mean it's one of those things that your fingers crossed on him. Yeah, and Dan Bailey, we trust, I trust and Will I trusted too. But people will come back. It's a very important position.

It is the good thing. I mean, at least the way I see it is that's a position that you can absolutely just practice over and over and where you don't necessarily have certain factors that will affect you kicking the ball aside from weather condition. You know, it's a very steady, you know kick. So that is something that he can keep practicing the end of the Cowboys will have time to see how his kicks are, how many

he makes over training camp and all that. As different as other positions that it's a little bit harder to judge because game day is different. Unless it gets in his head, unless it's a mental thing then and then he can kicking greater in the week. So I don't know all I'm saying. That's a fair point. It's it's a fun that's I mean, that's a good point. Just like you know, Byron Jones is like you're not watching the All twenty two, Like I'm doing my stuff over here.

You're like, why are y'all criticizing me? Dan Bailey, It's like, did it go in or did it not? Very easy? Yeah, it's one or the other. Okay, go ahead. I was gonna ask you, guys, biggest standout of OTAs. This is the last week of OTA, so Cowboys finished with OTAs, going into mini camp next week. So biggest standout overall in the whole OTA? Dave, Oh, well, you gotta put

me on the spott. I'll start, Actually, i'll start. Um. Anthony Brown to me is a guy he's kind of like forgotten a little bit just because he's he's not one of the flashy players, but he does have great athleticism. He's still you know, in the mix to be one of your top three or four guys will be on the field a lot, and I think just as a as a veteran player, now that he is a veteran, I think he has a chance to kind of fly under the radar a little bit. I think he's done

some good things from what I've seen out there. Anthony Browns a guy that's kind of stood out to me. We've talked a lot about him. I think it's I'll go back to it. It's tape on Asten for me because swept my appetite for what I expected. This is your Mali calling this year. This is my pet cat, like I think, oh wait, or Stephen Paya. It was Malie calling me and both love Steven you were talking a lot about But I'm very excited about what they're gonna get or what they can get out of Table

and Austin. It'll be interesting to see if they use him the right way and if they really get like they said, like it's not you're not expecting hundred yard games, but I do expect that they are going to be two or three games this year that he will win for you, Like he will make the play that wins two or three ball games for you this year. And I think that's more than enough for for what they're paying him to If they got that out of him. I'll say Blake Jarwin, Um Blake oot, I say Blake,

and I thought he was gonna get me crap. Yeah, I'll afully bring him up. Let me make myself perfectly clear. I still think Jeff swam is going to be this team's starting tight end. I don't think Likelake Jarwin's gonna go to the Pro Bowl or have this like insane year. But we're talking about a guy with what like one appearance in uniform, ever, maybe how many. I mean, they brought him up from the practice squad. He's done basically nothing, but they've given him a workload, like they trust him.

He's been with the first team, especially when they run twelve personnel, which I still think they're going to do this year. Like they trust him to have a significant role, and I think he's capable of that. To steal Garrett's phrase, it doesn't look like it's too big for him, and he's shown it out here, so I yeah, he's He looks like a guy who's ready to take on that responsibility.

I got it. One other guy as well that I've seen a couple of things from lately, Dak Prescott, in the form of what they're asking him to be this year. I mean, look what they've lost on this team leadership wise. We saw a little bit of it yesterday. We saw a little bit of it the week before. He's not really afraid to speak his mind out there. He is leading, he's got a command of the huddle. Yes, you want that from your quarterback, but it's not always easy when

you're a young guy like he was. That's over now he is. He's the guy. He's the veteran guy on this team that they've made decisions for him to suit this thing around him. So when things don't go well, he needs to stop the drill, put the ball in the ground, yell at somebody. And that's what he's that's what he's doing so far. So kill Chazz, now, I do wonder does he do that with Tyran? Does he

do it with Travis? Because you know what, there's a lot of people play the next play Travis Frederick pretty much gave him a three hopper to shortstop and they fumbled the ball away. And so I I don't I trust him to say what needs to be said. I hope maybe he has a different approach with different guys. You have to that's what you do. That's what parents do, it's what coaches do. You treat everyone different. Yeah, all right, well guys, this is all the time we have for today.

Thank you so much for listening and tuning in. It was a pleasure having you back way next week I'm taking ball. See you about it, all right? For Nikki and David Hellman. Derek, you got in, I remember you. See how this has been the Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.