Cowboys Break: Work to Do?

and Amber Garcia. They are all at their own homes and we're happy you guys took some time to sit down and talk some Cowboys football with us today. We're gonna get into our position series again today and talk a little bit about the linebacker position as well as a tight end position. Of course, Amber has a game for us in the second segment, maybe third segment, Not sure how that's going to time out. But we will also get some of your questions hopefully, so make sure

you hit me up on Twitter. We'll take whatever questions you guys have there as we get into the show. How's everybody feeling today? Great? Great there, awesome, Thank you for bringing the energy in the enthusiasm. It's good to see all you guys. What are you saying? Nick? I just said, great, wonderful, awesome, outstanding. Help while we're gonna go with this. You're a writer. I'm sure you get probably twenty more words at work, right, Not really, though,

this is this quarantine stuff. I mean, I'm all that is kind of out the window at this point. Yeah, all right, I got a question for you guys before we get into the Cowboys content. I want you to just tell me one thing you missed the most about being stuck at home, and one thing you've kind of gotten used to that you're like, I wish this can kind of go on forever. All right, let's start. Let's start with you, Dave. I think I said this the

first time we did this. Is it sounds dumb, but I miss driving, Like I actually I just drove to go pick up lunch, and like it was so nice to drive around with the windows down and listen to some music and I don't know, just feel like I'm going somewhere. So I definitely miss just being able to go around in my car. Honestly, I'm really fortunate obviously, like it's affected everybody's job, but like, for the most part,

I can do my job pretty effectively from home. So it's cool to just be able to sit on the couch and write stories without having to commute. So that's pretty cool. You kind of want to keep that up after this is done, maybe on like you know, Mondays and Fridays or something like that. Yeah, that would be great. Oh okay, miss Amber, what do you what do you miss most and what do you what do you want to keep after this is done? Well, not to be a copy cat, but to be honest, I do miss driving.

Prior to this whole thing happening, I was on vacations, so I haven't driven my car for like over two months now, and every time I try to turn it on to get it out of the garage, the battery dies. So I hope my car can survive this crisis. But aside from that, I enjoy not having to get ready, you know, just being in the comfort of your own home, having to put makeup on you, having to wear certain things that women need to wear to go out. So just you know, just being comfortable at home. Got it.

I mean I miss a lot of things. I mean one of the things that I've always had, Like a I always hate is like Thanksgiving night or New Year's Eve or whatever, where you can't go and get something to eat, Like I always hate that. I just like, let's get back to normal, like things aren't open and all that, and that A lot of that's been the way it is for for a long time. So just just the normal sea of you know, going, I mean, you can still go get something to eat, but you know,

just just go. Getting a chance to go and do something that's the biggest thing for me. And then what do I like. I mean, I mean, I guess, you know, not having the shower every day, I guess if you know, I mean, you can, but you can't. But I'm just saying you don't have to. So well, but you don't have life in a family, so maybe it'd be good on their behalf with you to You're just saying, I'm just saying you don't have to, but yeah, you still you still do. But I mean I still find myself

waking up at the same time. So yeah, I can't say that's been much different. I just wish I knew what day it is. I know, it's all running together It's interesting you brought up food because y'all know how much I love food. Like I'm I'm addicted to food,

and h it's one of those things. Right now, I'm dying not being able to just whatever I have to take for a run out and grab it like I was, Like probably the first week we were here, like I was, I convinced my wife that food was considered necessary, so I just needed to go out every meal and go get something. But she shut that down pretty quick, and now I'm just eating whatever we have for the house.

So that's pretty bad for me. But I will say this, I am not missing having to get up in the morning and get dressed to go to work, like having a sport coda on all day, Like I don't want to go back to that. I'm very happy with shorts or whatever. I decided to roll into my office to be able to work. So but anyway, this is an interesting time I'm sure for everybody. I'm sure everybody out there listening has some of those similar things that they're

dealing with. And so we hopefully hopefully this next hour that we we're with you guys, we can bring you a little bit of levity and you have a little fun talking a little Cowboys football. Let's jump into our conversation a day around our position series. We talked last week, we got this going. This week, we want to move on to the linebacker position, also the tight end position.

Let's start first the linebacker position. It's interesting that this is a position where it looks like the Cowboys really didn't do a whole lot. They didn't change a whole lot. They had a lot of free agents going into the offseason, but ironically they kept pretty much all of it the same, agreeing to a one year deal with Sean Lee. Justin Marx is another guy. They agreed to one year deal with. Joe Thomas, another guy they did a one year deal with.

So just from an overall perspective, how do you think they're matching up right now with the personnel? Is it pretty much gonna be the same. Is it something that you see in what they did in keeping them together that may make it better or do you think it's it may be worse because they kept all those guys together.

Let's start first with you, Hamper. You know what's interesting is last year we kept talking about whether or not this was a talented group you know, that was a question are they really talented or are they just really not good enough? And to me, I do believe this whole group is talented. They just need to combine it with the right kind of coaching and just having some different kind of mentality in there, which they're going to

have with the coaching changes. But you know, I'm expecting Layton Vander esh to be able to recover fully from what I'm hearing, So I do expect for this group to kind of go back from start. Hopefully Jalen Smith can look at last year and kind of humble himself down and watch what he was able to make last year and kind of, you know, go back to two

years ago and spark up the defense once again. Nick, I think, you know, they have made a lot or made sure that they kept all those guys from the top to the bottom, you know, so the continuity is there. But the interesting part about the linebacker position is that

there's still so many question marks. And so yes, you've got you've got all the guys that you had before, but you know, you still don't know exactly what you're gonna get from Jalen Smith or Layton vanders coming back from the injury or And I say that about Jalen Smith because I think that they need to figure out exactly where they want to play him and where the

best fit is going to be for him. I think that's the biggest priority for Mike Nolan on the defense this year is figuring out where to play Jalen but Sean Lee Kenny stay healthy. What does he have left in the tank? You know, in those in those backups as well. So yes, a lot of continuity stays the same, but their coach is different, and you know, who knows what you're going to get out of these guys. Dave, It's really weird how good I feel about the position

considering how mediocre it was last year. Um, but I like the continuity. I mean, you just spent the first round pick on Layton vander Esh Jalen Smith. You know, definitely not a great season, but he was. He was adequate And not only I agree with Nick completely, I think figuring out what to do with Jalen should be

Mike Nolan's number one priority. Guy also has an extensive background coaching defense and linebackers, specifically, That's what he was doing in New Orleans before Mike McCarthy hired him away, So I like Mike Nolan's potential to bring that out of Jalen Smith. Then there's the factor of you know,

what exactly is this defense going to look like? You know, if you follow if you follow Dallas Cowboys dot com, you're probably aware that the front office made available an interview with Zach Bonn yesterday and today it was Kenneth Murray. Those are two very different types of linebackers, but they're both linebackers. So does it mean they're gonna draft one of them? No, But based on those conversations, the Cowboys could have a completely different idea of what their linebacker

corps is gonna look like. I mean, I don't anticipate that they would make a move to a three four immediately, but it's something that they could do if they added the right personnel or at the very least look a lot more multiple. So I like the guys that are in place. Sean Lee was great as a deaf piece last year. I think he can do that again this year. But I am intrigued if it's gonna look exactly the same.

Let's let's dive into some of those topics that you all mentioned throughout your your your opening statement, Let's talk about the about Layton. He's coming off a neck surgery. What we've heard from the organization is that everything appears to be fine. He looks like he's gonna be ready

to go at whatever point this thing gets going. That being said, how comfortable do you guys feel if there should be, if there should be a setback for him, How comfortable do you feel with Sean Lee being your primary guy that will be taking those snaps and now Pep playing a full load this season, Let's say, if if he gets a setback playing that full load for it for an extended period of time. So sorry, you

nick not comfortable really at all with that. And I you know, I think that it's important that they signed Joe Thomas. I think Joe, but Joe's got to stay healthy as well. But I mean, he's a really good backup to have in there. I think the combination of Sean Lee and Joe Thomas would help. I still think

that you need to draft someone. I don't know where it'll fit, but I don't think that you get too far into the second, third, fourth round if there's one on the table that you really like I don't see how the Cowboys could pass on a linebacker just with like I said, all the uncertainty that you have starting with Layton and then all the way down Dave. I honestly I feel better about it than most and I definitely I do not implicitly trust the Cowboys that Layton

vander esh is fine. But at the same time, I don't know to some degree you have to be willing to have faith. Like I said, I mean, the guy's entering his third season. They just made him a first round pick. I haven't seen enough to make me think that I need to move on from that or worry about it. So I'm comfortable assuming he can start for me. And then I'm very comfortable with Sean Lee as a backup. I mean, that's what he did last year and he

was fantastic. Throw Joe Thomas in there as an additional safety blank it. I feel perfectly fine about it. For twenty twenty, I do agree. I mean, you could always look to improve your depth in the draft, especially for guys with injury problems like Sean and Layton, But I don't feel as panicky about it as a lot of people seem to ever I'm kind of in between, right in the middle. You know, obviously, I'm not gonna feel super comfortable thinking that everything's gonna be fine and you

have Shaun Lee as a backup. You know, obviously I love Shaun Lee. He's my favorite favorite player on the team, and I will be always rooting for him. But we do know his injury list and his history there. And then with Layton Menderesh, he's been dealing with the next thing since forever. Last year it kind of got worse and that happened and he was out basically the whole year.

But I don't know. I think that last year is an example of how the Cowboys shoot, like an early warning to prepare now, you know, get an extra guy in there aside from Joe Thomas, Get somebody else that can kind of help you, and you can start training early on in case something was to happen and things were to get worse and then Sean Lee got forbids goes down as well, you know that there is someone there. What was the linebacker guy? I like him too from

last year he got injured. Gifford. Look Gifford. Yeah, and we'll talk about him a little bit. Yeah, yeah, but hopefully, hopefully he can start, you know, getting healthy again and being able to get some reps and develop into something that the Cowboys can be able to use this upcoming year. All right, let's flip over the conversation to Jaylen Smith. I think it's no surprise or I don't think I'm speaking out of turn to say that Jayalen struggled sometimes

last year in coverage. Particularly that being said, do you think that's a sign of things to come, or do you think that's something that was an aberration? You expect him to be much better this year. I'll harken back to Roy Williams and Nick you were around and covering at that time, and I'm talking about Roy Williams, a safety.

We started to see this kind of this snowball that started to grow where teams were recognizing that he was a liability for the Cowboys in pass coverage, and that got worse and worse and worse, and to the point where it was just it was just something that the Cowboys really could protect him from. Do you see it as that kind of situation or do you think it was just an aberration for him last year? Well, I mean, I think linebackers are not You are not supposed to

be covering wide receivers or tight ends. I mean, there's not any linebacker that's probably good enough to do that, so or they would probably be a safety if they really could. So it's all about the mismatches. It's it's figuring out offensive coordinators figuring out the scheme. And I remember how many times did we hear that players would

say Rod Marinelli's scheme it's really easy to learn. Well, if it's really easy for someone to learn, it's really easy for the offensive coordinator to figure it out too. And so I think that they just got to figure out ways that they don't put their players in bad situations. Every team in the league would want to match up their slot receiver or an athletic tight end against a linebacker.

The Cowboys have to figure out ways that they could put Jalen in the right spot and not leave him into that situation because no, I don't think he can cover very well, especially the really athletic tight ends. Camber, what you got, Well, it's so hard for me to keep my personal opinions of the guy off the field from the guy that's on the field. It's so hard.

But like I said earlier on, I think one thing that plays a big role is how you conduct yourself, your behavior, and hopefully this past year he was able to take a step back, look at what he did last year and get humble, humble yourself down and shoot hopefully put him back in the right path into performing better on the field. You know, but this one's hard for me because it's hard for me to separate my emotions from it. Dave, that was so diplomatic. Amber I

leaned toward what Nick said. Honestly, A big, a big talking point that I was going to bring up. I've been thinking about it all offseason. Is you know, Jalen was not as active in the offseason program last year as you would expect because he was finishing his degree at Notre Dame. And in my head, I was like, well, you know, he'll be back at the facility, he'll have a more complete program this year, and you know, hopefully that'll make a difference in his level of play. Obviously,

it doesn't look like that's going to happen. So for me, I go back to Mike Nolan. I would I would hope that a guy with thirty two years of NFL coaching experience can maximize his skill set. I think Jalen's great when he's moving toward the line of scrimmage, so fine waves to maximize that, use him as a rusher more,

use him as a blitzer more. Maybe even you know, I'm sure he wouldn't like this, but if you have to get him off the field on third down, whatever you got to do to limit team's abilities to take advantage of that, and I trust my going to do that, and I trust Jalen to just also be better in

twenty twenty two. So it's kind of like Layton. I'm you know, last year was concerning, but I'm not I'm not overly worried about it yet because I do think there's plenty of room for improvement, you know, and it's not just Jalen Smith. As far as you know guys you would want the offseason program. I mean, I know Amber just mentioned Luke Gifford. There's so many players especially we always talk about year one to year two, just how important it is to make that jump. Well, usually

it's because it's the weight room. I would love to have seen what Tristan Hill, Jalen jelks Um, you know, Luke Gifford, Connor McGovern, those guys what they would look like here, and they still can It's not like they can't work. I don't know. I don't know where these guys are working out, honestly, so um, but that's cowboys. Sorry. I just it's interesting because if you're on your second contract. I saw Zach Mardin on the radio yesterday said he's got a gym at his house. Obviously he's on a

huge contract. But get a guy on a rookie contract afford to build his own gym in his house. I don't know. I mean it's probably got like a bowflex or something, but it's not quite the same as as what the cowboys have at their facility. So I think. I mean, that's a really good question about what a shaker weight. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure those guys have workout equipment at home, but maybe maybe they're doing like push ups every ten minutes or something like that. They

could do that. Yeah, maximize here, Oh baby pulled out the weights. Well, let's just keep it up with tradition. Yeah, you use whatever you got, right whatever. The good thing is is that I used this every time. The good thing is it's still wrapped, so it's not like that's a good sign. Yeah, yeah, you're not running out anytime too. I actually, maybe over a little later, try to get some because we all know it's getting it's getting a little bit worsome over here. Not there yet, but we're

starting to worry a little bit. Yeah, maybe a little bit too much. Okay, yeah, right, all right, so we're gonna take it. We're gonna take our first break we come back. I do want to jump a little bit into that conversation on Louke Gifford. He was a guy that we all liked a lot during training camp last year, and I'll be interested to see what you guys have to say about what you think he can become this next season. We'll do that when we come right back.

This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Your new apartment's big. Such a great deal, that's okay, just okay? Right about the subway, Well, I bet you don't even notice it after that's my neighbor. Ange the deal. That's just okay, it's not okay. Get a great deal with America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down based on GWS one score September twenty nineteen. Do you want the most interesting, up to the minute

Dallas Cowboys news straight from the Star in Frisco. How about exclusive and on command. That's right, news and nuggets you can't find anywhere else. With our exclusive Cowboys content on Alexa, you can have all the answers, secrets, stories and more. What's Stephen Jones thinking during a game? What's Joe Looney's favorite pregame meal? We take your questions to Cowboys players and coaches and you can hear the answers directly back to you. Just say Alexa Open Dallas Cowboys.

Whether you're into being a part of this or more into something like this, sekiek has the tickets to the events you love. It's the easiest way to find buy and sell tickets. Plus, with their deal score technology, they'll recommend the best seats in the house at the best value. So the next time you're craving this, download the Sea Geek app and let's go seek. Ladies and gentlemen, It's that time again for tailgating with the Auterbox Boys. Autterbox

the company that builds wildly overproductive phone cases. The one and only, but cases are just the start. Auterbox is the official outfitter of tailgating. If they can keep my phone safe, what can they do for my parking lot party? How about protecking your beverages from suboptimal drinking temperatures with their elevation tumblers and Auterbox elevation tumblers come in three sizes, a ten ouncer, a twenty ouncer, and even a sixty four ounce growler. Check out all the colors and sizes

of their elevation tumblers at auterbox dot com. Back to the brink. Here at the Cowboys, we can't wait to get back on the field, and we know you can't wait to pack at and t stadium to cheer us on when the time comes. Seek Geek is the place to get all of your Cowboys tickets, plus tickets to the hundreds of games, concerts, rodeos and other live events

will be able to enjoy again soon. Every seat Geek purchase is protected by a buyer guarantee, which means you'll get your money back in to your event if your event is canceled. Guarantee seek Gee let's go. All right, welcome back to the show. We appreciate you guys joining us. We were at our homes. We're talking some Cowboys football today. Were continuing our position series. We're talking about the linebacker position. A name that came up a little earlier in the

show is one I want to target right now. Luke Gifford. He was a guy that we all like what we were seeing last year from him during training camp, and then he gets hurt and we don't get to see him again the rest of the season. Talk to me about what you saw from him at the time and

where you think that could possibly go this year. Does he have an opportunity maybe to challenge one of the guys as the top three linebackers at the position to maybe get some playing time during the regular season, or is he just going to be more of a special teams type guy. Let's start first with you, Dave. Just as a general rule, I try to avoid having expectations for anybody that was like drafted after like the fourth round, Like if you're a fifth, sixth, seventh round pick or

an undrafted free agent. I mean, anything you can give me is great, but I don't have these like crazy expectations that Luke Gifford is going to unseat first round pick Layton vander Esh sixty five million dollar man Jalen Smith, or you know, ten year veteran Shan Lee. I don't see that unless there's a crazy rash of injuries. I expect that he'll make the team, and I think he's got the potential to be a good player. But beyond that, I'll just wait and see what he can show me. Camber,

I think he'll definitely make the team. He's a guy that they can develop into something. Again, we didn't get to see much from him, but me, what I like from him is his built He has that linebacker bill. He fits perfectly with that mold that the rest of the linebacker group have, so at least he has that we Unfortunately, I was hoping to get to see more

from him last year, but that didn't happen. Now, I don't think he'll get much chances to be playing on the field to fill in for any of those guys unless there are injuries that happen, and then maybe then he can get to showcase a little bit of his work. And hopefully that's the thing too is unless you get playing time. It's very hard for these guys to develop

into someone that they can use for later on. So I would like for them to hopefully get to use him a lot during the preseason, give him a ton of work just to see what he can do during that time, and see if that's someone that they definitely should keep for the future. Yeah. I just like his instincts. I think that he he you know, like like uh Amber said that, you know, he does have the look for a linebacker, but he also has has really good instincts.

We saw that he did just enough before he got hurt to to show that he was making progress, and then he did just enough in that game that he played, gets the interception, makes another tackle, and then that was enough for him to make the team. So, uh you know, he does take advantage of the opportunity. He was pretty good at times on um when he came back from injury on special teams. But you know, I just think that he needs a good offseason here, and you know

it's gonna be hard for that to happen. But um, you know, I think that he's he's got a spot, I don't know about competing for a starting job. But then then again, like it's hard to tell what the scheme and and what you know this coaching staff likes from these linebackers, so um, there could be something we don't even know about with him. And and that's assuming

that they stay in a four three. I mean, if they do move to a three four, which I don't think that's going to happen, but if they do it at times, you know, there could be a different fit for him as well. It's interesting you look at this quart this group. You've got Sean Lee on a one year deal, you got justin March on a one year deal, you got Joe Thomas on a one year deal. I think it's pretty pretty safe to say that the Cowboys should be looking at a draft pick because they may

meet them after this year. Luke Gifford becomes another guy that has an opportunity because again, all these guys are on one year deals. That being said, let's talk about some names. Dave, you do the draft show here every week. Give us a couple names of some linebackers in the draft. You mentioned a couple already, but some linebackers that might make sense at areas where the Cowboys would be drafting and would realistically look at a linebacker. Yeah, I mean,

that's that's an interesting question. To Nick's point is like, what do you what do you want this linebacker cord to look like? Because like, if you're gonna trot out the regular old four or three or four two for Nickel, now we've gotten used to like if you're gonna use a big pick on a linebacker in that scheme, that to me says something troublesome about Layton vander esh which is why I leaned toward thinking like day three picks.

But then you think about being multiple, maybe not transitioning to a three four, but just being as multiple as possible. You could draft more of a rush linebacker like Wisconsin Zach Bond, who they just talked to. Kenneth Murray is intriguing. If they were going to draft him, I would assume it would be to play on the inside. He could pair with somebody as your middle two linebackers in a three four. So it's interesting to think what they would

want to do with that first round picks. You could draft Kenneth Murray out of Oklahoma or Patrick Queen out of LSU. I don't think it's particularly necessary, but if they wanted to run three four personnel, they could. A guy that I really liked that you could get like second or third round is Jordan Brooks out of Texas Tech. Who else we got here? I know a lot of

people talk about Willie Gay out of Mississippi State. That again, that's that's a guy you'd probably have to draft with the fifty first overall pick, second round just seems awfully rich for me. Um, But I'm curious to see how they would want to do it. I mean, if they were going to draft Kenneth Murray, I'd be interested to see what their game plan is and how they would

want to do that. Yeah, I mean, there has been a little bit of a talk, you know, more and more about the three four, mainly because nobody's telling us, you know that that's not the case. I mean, and you know, all people are doing right now are speculating. Anytime you mentioned Randy Gregory or aunt Alden Smith. You know, these guys fit that that you know mold of a

three four. Don Terry Post certainly does as well. So you know, I don't necessarily think that's the way the Cowboys are gonna go, But but they have enough players where you can go and interchange the three four and the four three in the middle of the game. The Patriots have done that better than anybody, and I think that you'll see and the Packers have done that, You'll see that the Cowboys will probably try to do that with the personnel that they've got. All Right, So real quick,

here's the final question on linebackers. I need each of you to give me one of these three answers regarding the linebacker position. Is it among the best position groups that the Cowboys have? Are they just okay? Or does this group need help? Let's start with you Amber, what was the last one? Or do they need help? Best? Okay? Or they need help? I don't know about best. I

mean they need a little help. I'm just curious. I really don't know what to expect from this coaching staff because it's so different and so new to what I've been used to see in the past. So I'm curious to see how much that what an impact that has on this whole linebacker group and the defense as a whole. But they do have the talent. I do believe this is a talented group. You got Jalen Smith talented. He just needs to clean up his game and make it

you know, stop the celebrations when it's not needed. Just keep giving it, you're all. But you know what I'm trying to say here anyways, Sean Lee, here's a guy that has it all. He just needs to stay healthy late late and vendoresh just come back healthy. He definitely showed to have what it takes obviously to cover Shan Lee's job and kept it. So this is definitely talented group. They just need to clean up the game and hopefully this coaching staff can can revive that energy and just

make it all piece together again. So is the position group among the best? Are they okay? Or are they? Do they need help? They need help? I mean clearly from last year based on last year, they need help. Now. I think we'll see what the coaching staff does and if that was the kind of help that they needed. If you're talking about play your wise, is that what you're talking about, I'm talking about personnel wise? Are they among the best? Is their position group among the best?

Is their position group just okay? They'll they'll do? Or do they still need more help that you know? From where they are right now? They need more help anymore? Helping. I don't trust the injuries. Honestly, all right, um, honestly, this this answer is all three. They are the best because they're the only group that all three of the starters are all one hundred percent of the starters have made a Pro Bowl. So from from what they've accomplished, they are the best. But the problem is is that

sometimes they're just okay. And because of that, because they have a lot of invested in it and they're just okay. Yes, they need help. So I'm gonna say yes to all of them. I'm sorry, but that's that's the case. I mean, they are accomplished, but they don't always play up to that part, which makes them just okay, which means and all those one year contracts from the back end, you know, I think, yeah, that they need to make sure get some help. I agree with Dave. I think the third

or fourth round. Well I don't know if he said that, but you know he didn't say, hi, first and second round, third or fourth round would be I would where I would start looking for value at linebacker. All Right, Dave, it feels kind of knee jerk to me, Like this time last year we would have said this was the second best position group on the entire team, behind the offensive line, and all of that talent is still there.

There's definitely concerns. I'm not trying to convince anybody that there's not, but I have faith that can still be a highly effective unit any of my Most of my concerns are just about the future, which I completely agree with Nick. If there's a guy worth grabbing on Day three, like they did so good in back to back years drafting Anthony Hitchins and Damian Wilson in the fourth round,

I would do something like that. If you're looking. I know I threw out some names earlier, but like day three names, look up Davion Taylor out of Colorado, guy Jacob Phillips out of LSU I think could be a steal and then um no, I'm I know, I know, I'm a homer, but he's a freaking he's a super good player. You can take my word for it. Another one of your guys, Yeah, Evan Weaver out of cal is another one. He is not an impressive as he's not an impressive athlete, but he makes every tackle in

the world. Um, I would I've actually seen that guy, wasn't he a defensive lineman like in college or did he always play or is he like a three four linebacker. He's a hybrid linebacker. He wore like ninety nine in college, which made him look like a d lineman. But he's a I mean, he's a he's an off ball linebacker. UM an a guy like that in the fourth, fifth, or sixth round just to keep the depth churning and

have a long term option. That's what I would do. Okay, let's uh, let's go ahead and flip flip over to the tape tight end position and see what we can get out of that before we have to go to our second break again. This is a position seen quite a bit of change, the notice most noticeable one being Jason Witten now no longer being with the team. We talked last week. I think we all answered the question of whether we think it was a big loss or not.

My question for you this week is how does it change or do you think it will change how they play offense. Do you think that you might see a little more or a little less two tight insets? Do you see a little bit more a little bit less passing? With Jason Witten no longer in the mix. How do you think there'll be well, what do you think the changes will look like? Let's start first with you Nick.

You know, I had a good conversation with Bucky Brooks, who's been doing a lot of work with us, if you've seen on the site some scouting reports and stuff, and he actually has another one coming up here in the near future about McCarthy and his history with tight ends and just the type of tight ends that they like to use, a lot more athletic, a lot more of an athletic build for for that position, and kind of why why does he want to stretch him out?

What is he trying to do with all these mismatches, and so just you know that alone, I think Blake Jarwin will give you a little bit more mismatches. You know, Jason Witten wasn't there anymore with with anybody that you were, you know that was really worried about him as as a route runner. Um. But I just think that when it comes to it, I think that they still need a little bit of help there. Um. If I could pronounce his name, I would throw it out there. But

is it Cole Hiccottini watch out for him. He was on the practice squad last year. Watch out for him as a guy that could that could maybe unseat Dalton Schultz's role. I think that I think he might have a good chance to make the team. All right, Amber, So right now, does I always have what Blake Jarwin, Blake Bell they got. They just had Dalton Scholtz and then that guy you mentioned, Yeah, I mean Hiccottini was on the practice squad. Yeah, and that's basically it. Obviously.

I mean, Rico, no, give it another try. No, But I think you know, I am. I'm confident on what Blake Jarwin can bring to the game. I think that given the chance and given more reps, he can become into a better player and do more for you and for the offense. But as far as bodies and experience, I don't feel a ton like I don't feel that great. I think that Dad needs the help to meet the quarterback that I've seen from him. It's like he's the type of quarterback that needs all the help that he

can get from those elements of the offense. So he definitely needs on it. He needs a tight end that he can trust, like Jarwin has shown to be that. But for example, when you talk about Dalton Schultz, a guy that they drafted a couple of years ago. I don't think he's a guy. Honestly, I don't remember anything from Dalton Schultz. I don't remember a single play, to be honest, I don't think he's done much and that

what there isn't one. Well, there you go. I don't I think I'm ready to move on from that and bring someone else. I think that they can definitely get a guy from the draft and have him compete with Sholz for a spot, and that's easy to do based on what we've seen in the past. So as of right now, I don't feel super excited about the tight end position, but I have hopes in Blake Jarwin and what he can do in the future. Right Dave, I'm intrigued and excited because I don't I mean, this sounds

harsh to say about Jason Witten. He was he was fine last year and in the final few years of his career, but like, it's not like the tight end position has just been this like crazy boon of productivity for the last five years. So I don't think there's anywhere for it to go. But up we talked last week, you know, I don't think Jarwin is Travis Kelsey, but he can stretch the defense, he can get downfield. We've seen him thrive in the seam, he's great after the catch.

All of that's really intriguing. And then Blake Bell really interests me because of how versatilely is. You know, obviously he's played tight end in the league, but I'm very confident he could do some h back stuff. And obviously he's got a history playing quarterback, so that there's like the added elements of the unknown. Not that he's gonna

play significant reps, but I don't know. You could probably do some fun stuff in the goal line in short yard situations with a guy like that, So I'm intrigued. It's definitely it's not a strength of this team, but it'll be new and athletic, which is what they haven't had in a while. So's I'm optimistic to see what that looks like. Talk to me a little bit about Dalton Schultz. He's a guy that the Cowboys jaf a

few years ago. Last year, I mean, I don't know, I still haven't seen a lot from him that suggests to me that he's got to be a real player in this league. Have you guys seen anything that suggests he's a guy maybe for the future for the Cowboys or the future would be now for him. Uh, there's opportunity there that he could jump up and seize. Let's start. Yeah, go ahead, No, I don't think. I mean I figured this has to be me or Dave about what we've seen,

because clearly, you know she hasn't seen anything. Who has I mean really, I mean it's not it's not well, I mean, but it's not wrong. I mean, like, he really hasn't from it for a fourth round pick, you know, and he didn't contribute a whole lot on special teams either, So you know, for him, getting stronger was was the you know, what he needed to do. He needed to get to get stronger so he could be an adequate

backup tight end. That second tight end has got to be a guy that that could be out in the field to end short yardage, to help block and not be a liability. So you know, he's had an interesting career so far, just because you know, he got caught up in the he was drafted. But yeah, some people wanted Rico and so what do they do with these third and fourth tight ends, and he played half the snaps he probably should because Rico was getting some so he kind of kind of got caught up in all that.

But if he was clearly better, he would have played, and he wasn't. So that's but you see, you know, when we talked about Luke Giffer earlier, he's a guy that we didn't really get to see much of it, but when we did, we saw sparks of it. With Dalton, I feel like I never got to see a spark, not even a training cap. I never got to see something that made me want to keep seeing more, or you know, feeling like, oh, you know what, maybe if they give him more reps he can turn into this.

I never got any of that from the times that I did get to watch him. That the side, so I'll say this, and Nick has brought it up before, is just I can't I can't rule anything out just because of the changing coaching staff. So you know, Mike McCarthy and his staff could look Dalton, Chalton be like Jesus, why did these guys have you doing this stuff? Like we got a completely different idea of what we think you should be doing. Having said that, if you're a

fourth round pick. I expect to have seen something intriguing from you in two years, so the fact that I haven't doesn't make me optimistic. But you know, maybe a new coaching staff can turn things around for him. Yeah, I actually think about that from the standpoint of what was being said earlier, Nick, that you said Bucky Brooks talked about, and how Mike McCarthy likes athletic tight ends.

If he has that level of athleticism, my question would be, why wouldn't we have seen that in some way over these years? And I don't know that I can remember a moment even in training camp or practices where I've seen Dalton Scholt show me a certain level of athleticism that made me think he's a really athletic guy that

maybe just wasn't being used in the right way. And quite frankly, the fact that they signed Blake Bill suggested to me that's even more of a reason why they felt like they needed a real second tight end, somebody who could legitimately be a good blocker for them. And I think you're gonna actually end up seeing Blake Bell, but your second tight end, wait, more than you're gonna see Dalton Scholtz, and that to me is an indictment on kind of who he is and maybe what they

expect from him going forward. Yeah, all right, let's go and check our final break when we come back and has a game for us. We're gonna get have some fun here in this final segment. We'll do that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. I want to use what the pros use. How about the official men's skincare brand or the Dallas Cowboys Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten

bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Black skincare favorites plus a full sized and tense therapy lip bomb. Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the code word team JB. That's get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys. The Jack Black Starter ten bucks, free shipping. Whether you're into being a part of this or more into something like this, Sea Geek has the tickets to the events you love. It's the easiest way

to find, buy and sell tickets. Plus, with their deal score technology, they'll recommend the best seats in the house at the best value. So the next time you're craving this, don't know the sea, geek app and let's go see geek. I'm Jay Novachik, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day. I was the guy who always got the tough yards, and that's why I run with

John Deer today. In fact, I have a John Dear three zero twenty five E tractor that can handle any yard work I need to do, even the tough yards way out back. So if you have one acre or a thousand, John Deer has the equipment that's just right for you. Visit a John Deer dealer today and run with us. We are the official tractor provider of your Dallas Cowboys. Your new apartment's big, such a great deal,

that's okay, just okay. What's not right above the subway, Well, I bet you don't even notice it after that's my neighbor. Ange the deal. That's just okay, it's not okay. Get a great deal with America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down based on GWS one S course of Camber twenty nineteen. Back

to the Break. This season, we're celebrating our cowboys sixtieth birthday, and we know you all have birthdays to celebrate, two some more than others. So our partners at Main Event are going to help. They have a new platform called Birthday with Me to celebrate at home on Instagram. Each day at two pm. They've got cakes, candle singing Happy birthday. Everything you need so follow Main Event on Instagram and tune into their live story at two pm each day

to celebrate with others. All right, welcome back. When you're in the final the Break, we are live. We are not in the s WBC Mortgage studios, although we wish we were. We were at our homes. We are tucked in safely. We're talking Cowboys football. In this final segment, Amber has a game for us. Amber. Let's go, all right, we're bringing back a little cr No for you guys. Some people have been asking for it, so let's get right into it. Will the Cowboys go after a veteran quarterback?

Cr No, No, no, they would have already right, they wouldn't have already done it. Well, hold'll still some out there, hold on when they might they might, I mean, like get to practice and these guys see like maybe they don't like what Cooper Rush has or doesn't. We're no towards the end of train. Okamp, Yes, that's actually a good point, Nick, because I keep I keep just falling into this fallacy of well they don't do that. They love Rush, and I forget the fact that they are

no longer here. So yeah, maybe maybe they do. Maybe they do get into some practices to start realizing that maybe Cooper Rush isn't necessarily what they want from a backup, or maybe they feel like they need a little more insurance in the event DA goes down. They want to keep developing Cooper Rush, but they want somebody else to be there their primary backup. Right, see what happened in the draft. I hate myself for even saying this out loud. I'm like the conductor of the DAK train. I firmly

believe he needs to be paid. But like, what's going on with Cam Newton? What's what's the deal here? Like? I really wow, I'm I'm there's my headline for the for the art show, right, we're gonna go all in on it. I'm just curious why a former NFL MVP who is only thirty one can't find a job. Like that's crazy to me. And I know he was hurt, and I know he more than anybody, needs to be healthy to be effective because mobility is such a big part of his game. But like, nobody even wants to

kick the tires on an NFL MVP. And I don't think you know I'm how expensive tis well, I don't know. I mean, I'd rather have Cam Newton than Nick Foles, right, am I crazy? Well, But here's the deal. I think that's the interesting part about it is I think, yes, he is a he is a better quarterback than a

lot of quarterbacks around the NFL. I think the issue for him becomes, like Nick says, obviously the price tag is part of it, but the second part of it is your offense has to change if you're going to be able to best utilize the skill set that he brings to the table. And I don't know that every coach is willing to say we're going to totally revamp what we do, not let alone we have the right personnel to match up with that. But you have to kind of change what you do because this skill set

is not your is not. I don't think if you've got to utilize the skills very well, at least what he's been so far in his career, I think you have to change things up, and I don't know if everybody's willing to do that. And also I don't think he can continue to play at what he's done and continue to play in this league three or four more years doing that type of being another running back out there.

Like I think he would have to be more of a pocket passer guy, and that's really not his thing either. So he's kind of in a little bit of a crossroads of his career to like, does he want to continue to do that, because that's what's been banging him up is just the way he plays. He does not played like a quarterback. He plays like a you know, bulldozing running back, and you know, he catches up to everybody. I am not saying that I think the Cowboys should

do this. I think they should pay Dak Prescott. I can't believe it hasn't happened by now, but I am at least a little bit intrigued by the idea of paying Cam Newton a lot less and building up the team around him and actively try to draft a quarterback while he's doing that. If he's not good, then you know you're spending first, second, or third round picks on quarterbacks the next few years. That's what makes it scary.

That's why the Cowboys shouldn't do it. But if you told me that I could sign Cam for like, I don't know, somewhere between twenty and twenty eight mill a year, what makes you think that Cam's gonna be that Cam's gonna be a lot less? That's a good question. I mean I don't have an answer to that. Because he's out of work and the markets dried up, that's all. Like,

I mean, you're right. I mean, the guy's been to however many Pro Bowls and won an NFL MVP, like he should be able to command a lot more, but he's sitting out there unemployed right now. So yeah, I just look at it as I think, no matter what I think, a lot of these guys, especially guys, and rightfully so, for a guy like Cam is a former MVP, he's taking his team to a super Bowl, I don't think he necessarily is the type of guy that's just

gonna settle because he's on the street right now. I think he'll probably wait it out as he should and get maybe not max value, but certainly get good value. I don't think. I don't think he would end up in a situation where he's taking twenty twenty eight million dollars a year. I think you might be able to get him for thirty two, maybe thirty three, but I don't think he's gonna be coming in really really cheap for who he is. I don't know about that, dude,

thirty two or thirty three. I mean, those averages are based off of four to five year deals. If he doesn't get something like that, I don't think he's gonna get a one year thirty two. I mean, I don't even know if that. Yeah, I just don't know if the Cowboys are going to continue to do that with Dak on this one year thirty two. I don't even

see that happening. But I think what Cam will do is sit there and wait for that one quarterback to get hurt, because there will be one or two, and then when that happens, it'll be like, oh, do they go get camp because some and so just got injured. Like I said, I still think paying Dak is the

right course of action. But that is one situate. Like It's just it's interesting to me, Like, I think you could build a winning football team around Cam Newton, and I think it's even at this point of his career. I think you could. And I think it's weird that nobody seems to warn him right now. Definitely agreed there. I agree that with that. Well, another guy that nobody seems to warn right now, but a guy that I need to bring up once again because a lot of

people send me this question. Is this Brian, especially after all these social media videos that have been going out of him practicing with Dak Prescott catching some passes. Shoot, the Cowboys signed Dez Ceo. No, no, no, no, they should shouldn't. They don't need that guy. They don't need him. M let's I mean, I'm inclining he was a declining

player before a torn at Kelly's injury. I just what makes his think that he's going to be a he's gonna have a resurgence now and he hasn't shown the ability to be in This guy that is great in the locker room and he's gonna be okay with one pass for six yards and a loss that that doesn't seem to be like a guy that the Cowboys would need. I will say this, though, I don't know that. I give everybody room to change and grow, and maybe he has a different mindset now than he had when he

was a younger player. That happens so a lot of us. We grow up, we become a little more mature, we have a little different outlook on things. But I just look at it and say, I don't know that practically it fits. You're right now, if you look at the receiving position, you think the Cowboys need depth, you think the Cowboys need a slot receiver. I don't think de Dez provides either one of those two things. And when I talk about death depth, I'm talking about also kenn

a guy play special teams. We know des will not be playing special teams. So are you telling me that you're gonna have You're gonna add another guy that might be fourth on your depth chart that doesn't play special teams. I just I don't see whether there's a good fit here unless something happens to one of your top two receivers and you feel like, for whatever reason, Desk can play that role. I don't think Des comes in and immediate becomes a slot receiver when that's not something he's

traditionally done. I don't think he's gonna be your fourth guy because I don't think he can play special teams. So I don't think there's a fit for Dez right now based upon how this roster is currently constructed. I thought it was really funny. I get you know, if you've been on social media, it's making the rounds. I mean, Dak has been working out with Dez, which you know obviously not following the social distancing guidelines. But on top of that, just interesting that Dak is throwing with Dez

at Dallas area gyms right now. But the word going around is that Dak was telling somebody, you know, we need to get this guy on a team, not my team, not our team, like the franchise quarterback of the Cowboys, who you would think has that kind of sway. It was like, Des needs to be on a team, but not necessarily my team. I had this argument with Jeff Kavanaugh last night, like, if you want to bring in Dez to be the fourth receiver and go on the field in the red zone and be a mismatch guy, Okay,

like you. I mean, that's fine. I don't think you need to as but if you're going to do that, you need to draft a young, versatile receiver who you intend to be your third starter. Like I Dez Bryant doesn't need to have a starters workload at this point in his career. Like if you were going to do it, it would be as like a situational guy. But to Derek's point, that's just not smart roster building. I just

I don't see it. I can't rule it out completely because Jerry owns hasn't but I don't see it, and I don't think at all I will throw out this one caveat though I will throught this one caveat though we do know that they're gonna that there's some changes to the rules in the NFL with regards to rosters and who can be on the roster and how many players you can have. There are a couple of extra

spots you can have. Maybe the Cowboys have the ability to be able to make him their fourth ride receiver and not having play special teams and having be a specialty gadget type guy because of the fact that they have those extra roster spots maybe that works. I don't know. All I know is based upon what we've known traditionally about how a roster is built. I just don't see

how he would fit in that construct, all right. So, clearly seeing all these promotions help promoting with all these videos working out with Dad hasn't changed your opinion on him signing with the Cowboys. But we'll see what happens there. Here's the next question. Do you guys think that McCarthy will have more say in how the Cowboys do the draft this year compared to Jason Garrett? So basically, does McCarthy have a bigger voice in the draft room than

what Garrett was able to do in previous years? C No, as ay, see, I think he will because I think he's trying to let everybody know his scouts, his coaches, what kind of team, what kind of players he wants. He's the one that said scheme doesn't matter as much as having good football players, and I think the head coach needs to make sure and let everyone know what type of football player he's looking for. What does the

Dallas Cowboy player look like in his mind? And so yes, I think he will have a little bit more say in that, but I think Garrett did as well. But I think I think McCarthy will probably have a little bit more say because they'll be looking. This is his first class to really build and shape what type of team he wants. I agree, but I don't. I don't

think he'll have a larger voice than Garrett did. I think he'll have a larger voice than what he's used to having, because I think his arrangement in Green Bay with Ted Thompson was like Ted Thompson was like, I'll buy the groceries and you make the dinner, whereas it's always been a way more collaborative process here, even to the point where you would might argue the coaches had too loud of a voice. So I don't think he'll

have a louder voice than Garrett did. I think he'll just have a louder voice than what he's used to And I agree wholeheartedwood Day, That's exactly what I was gonna say. So all right, since we don't fully know quite yet how this draft is going to go down, there's a lot of possibilities of it happening, virtruly, because of the change in the process of how things are handled in this year's draft. Do you expect that to mess up with the trading process and how teams start

trading this year? No, see, not at all. Go ahead, Derek. I think one of the things, one of the things that I've learned, one of the things that I've learned just in what we do over these last three weeks is if you're if you're somewhat good at your job, you learn how to adapt. They're always going to be varying circumstances that change the dynamics of what you do, and if you're good at what you do, you'll adapt and you'll be just as good, if not better, under

those new circumstances. Now, of course, this whole situation is a very different type of circumstance, but we've seen these types of these types of disruptions before. Again, not the same thing, but disruptions where what you're used to being able to do you no longer can do. And so I think the company to the teams that are really good at technology, the teams that are really good at knowing how to take advantage technology, they'll be just as good,

if not better, this draft as they've ever been. Maybe some of those teams that aren't maybe they won't be, but I don't think this will change things for most teams that are adept at being able to run their business. You know what I've learned in the last three weeks, even like setting up a podcast between four people remotely has its fair share of hiccups. We've had them every single time we've tried to do this show. We worked it out, but it still happens every week, every single time.

And it's understandable. But thirty two teams and the general managers and coaches of those teams are mostly of an age where like they didn't grow up with this kind of technology. They're not used to it. I think it's going to be a mess. I think people are going to be screwing up all kinds of stuff. Because it's so many moving parts to coordinate remotely, there's bound to be some flub ups. I don't know what exactly is going to happen, but I expect it to be a

total cluster. Well, the one thing we do know about this is you can always clear all those by just picking up your phone and making a phone call right like, so if there's ever a mix up with the other technology, the phone still works. You can still pick it up and say, hey, man, thinking about this trade, what are you thinking? You want to do it? And then figure it all out from there. So but Derek doesn't go like that. Jerry has two phones. He's got Cleveland over

here with a second and a fifth. He's got the Jets on a second and a fourth and they want this player, and what about to call the Chargers back? And you've got all that going on. How many phones do you think you'll have this year? I don't know more. But he won't have he won't have Steven and Will and those guys in the room with him. Maybe you will. I don't know how it's gonna set up, but I mean,

I agree with Dave, I agree with both of you. Yes, it's gonna be better than we think, but there's still gonna be all of those things we're talking about. There's a fifteen minute time limit on the thing, and all of a sudden you're like, okay, just just doo the pick. I think you'll see more safer picks, and you'll see a little bit less trading because it's gonna be chaotic. Yeah,

there'll be some adjustments, no doubt about it. I just I have a feeling that teams that Again, if you're good at your business and you know how to make adjustments, you might have some some areas where you're like, oh, that didn't quite work as we expect it, but you'll figure it out and you'll be able to come out with a similar to the same product as what you were able to come out with before. I just I believe the situations like this or opportunities to show just

how good you can be at what you do. And I think there will be some teams at rise of that occasion be a big draft for Ben. Yeah, guy, that's my yeah. Ben. Ben is phenomenal and you can see him every year at the draft. You can see him all over the feed helping everybody. But if he's got to do that right, right, if he's got to do it via phone, what the hell is going to happen? I like, I just think they're like, there's some teams are like, there's gonna be like a missed pick or two.

There's gonna be some flow trades. I bet you we won't even know most of the chaos because it'll be in the form of like failed trades that never made the public eye because it fell right because of bad commune occation. I just yeah, because the forty nine er signal is busy. Yeah, like, wait, where's our WiFi? What's going on? One thing? The one thing I do know is I think this is shaping up to be one heck of a deep blue documentary. So yeah, Nick, get

on that. That was gonna be. This one's gonna be really, really good. I'm just worried how we're gonna do our draft like we're gonna do our coverage and our stuff in twenty years, Nick, you and I have never spent draft day away from each other. This is gonna be very very different for me. We don't have to. I mean, like, no, we do. We're following the rules. We do. All right, Well, it's gonna be very interesting. But I think we ran out of time right now, so Derek just go ahead

and close it out. All right. We appreciate you. We enjoyed the game, c And no, we'll pick that back up next week. We'll finish off that game next week and answer some more questions. We do appreciate you, guys. They'll take a time with us today, talk a little football until next week. For Nick, even Dave helm and Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eagelson. This has been the Break live on dllascowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.