Cowboys Break: Woodson Joins

And as you can hear, Dave Hellman's typing away and he's so excited to be joining this show and very happy you guys could take some time with us to talk a little Cowboys football here on the Break. Lots of things, well I should say lots of things, but some things are actually moving in the NFL. We'll start today talking a little bit about Jerry returning to the Star. A little later, we got a new segment that we'll

be starting up probably about five minutes from now. We call it story Time on the Break, and our storyteller to day is none other than Darren Woodson. He's got a few stories for us. We'll try to do that every week, have a special guest stand to tell us some interesting stories from behind the curtains at the Star with the Cowboys. In addition that, we'll also get into some of the conversations around the owners meetings and then talk a little bit about Keto A. Woozier in the

final segment, how's everybody doing today? I just wanted to I was promoting the show on Twitter, so you know, I was regarding that you were doing something very important. It sounded like you were doing something very important, So I appreciate that's good. Let's stop great. Jerry returned to the Star yesterday, Nick, and you had an opportunity to write an article about that. First of all, I got tell me right now, I guess tell me from the fans out there who don't know what are teams allowed

to do at this point? What does the NFL said as far as what teams are allowed to do as of today, as of yesterday? Really, but the big thing is that no coaches or players are allowed in the building for a competitive reasons, and that's because you have to have the guidelines of the state of your own state to be able to return to work. Obviously, Texas. It's been very public. Texas is reopened, so that works

for the Cowboys. So they can have no more than seventy five people in the building or fifty percent, just depends on how big your organization is. The Cowboys obviously have way more than one hundred and fifty employees, so seventy five is the max. And if somebody's going to lead it off on Tuesday, might as well be Jerry Jones and the Jones family. So you know, Jerry had a virtual owners meeting call that he wanted to to take and he wanted to make sure and do it

in the office. He's kind of leading the chart as the Cowboys are working their way like other teams working their way back. And just to be clear, healthy players and coaches are not allowed in the facility as of right now based upon the NFL rules because the NFL wants to ensure that all teams have a fair footing, so and so all teams have access to be able to get back into their buildings, no healthy players or

coaches will be allowed in the building. Nicole ask you to what's significance of Jerry being at the Star yesterday. Was there significance in that I think the significance of, you know, people are working again. I mean I don't I don't know. I mean, they did an NFL draft virtually, and we all know where he was for the draft, so he didn't have to be in the building to

take that call. We know that. But what it symbolizes is that this is the first step back, and you know, I think some of his other vice presidents and her office personnel, we're able to go up there. There weren't a lot of people there, but you know, just the first step and hopefully mini steps that we all can can get back from there. Yeah, all right, let's say we're gonna we should be having Darren Woodson joining us here in just a moment. We'll get into a lot

of different topics with him. Until we do that, though, I wanted to start a little conversation. I saw something really interesting on NFL dot com yesterday. Cynthia Freeland, NFL dot com writer, she had she was talking about all the different teams and she identified one player on all thirty two teams that she said was underappreciated based upon how people viewed them. And it's interesting that the player that she pointed out for the Cowboys. Now I'll read

you this quote. She's talking about Taba Woozier. She said he's been far less talked about despite forcing eighteen in completions in twenty nineteen, that being the third most in the NFL. Pretty impressive stuff. I'm gonna leave you with that, and we'll think about that and get right long. Being joined by a guy that that I just think the world of. As a former player of the Cowboys, he was a nineteen ninety two All Rookie Team Remember he was a five time Pro Bowl or, three time first

team All Pro, three time Super Bowl champion. Mister Darren Woodson. Welcome to the show, Darren Well. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me about time. Y'all got me back on this day. You know this on Derek, I'm not putting it on you. I'm putting it on a bit anyway. Hold on coming, Hold on real quick, Woodson. Um when says how much he loves you and all that stuff. Have you seen his office, He's got some random picture behind there. Have you seen our office? I mean our office?

Had I think you're well represented in our office. So I don't know why you're gonna put that on me. Yeah, I can't. I can't throwing on Amber get nick quick train to look good and sound good. Right now, that the picture was put there, Okay, it was not by your choice. It was not your choice, absolutely false, right, because Shannon and I had a thousand pictures we could pick from, and we chose that one. We put it there and actually wasn't high enough or it wasn't low

enough or whatever. It was a big or deal. And then Darren came and signed it. So yeah, definitely was our choice. Hey, Shannon, who do you want to put in here? Darren? What's it? Sounds good? Everybody? It wasn't man to get you going, though, tell us a lot about how you and your family are doing, how y'all are dealing with I guess what everybody's dealing with the restrictions and and and staying at home and all those

kinds of things. Well, first of all, my my heart goes out to those that are suffering through COVID, because there's you know, some of us are impacted more than others. I've had some friends, Charlie Williams, a good teammate of ours behind in the nineties. He lost his brother, So I mean it's you know, for some of us that hasn't been that that big of an impact outside of just you know, logistically being being such. But you know, for a lot of us, you know, health wise, as

it has. And you know, my heart goes out to those families. For myself, Uh, it's been a different being home. And as you guys well know, I travel a lot, whether it be through business or uh and mostly through business, and uh, you know, I'm home now. The family is probably about ready for me to get the heck out of the house. I'm back in my office. As you can probably see today, I'm right here in the you know, the atrium of the Cowboys headquarters. So I'm back in

the office right now. We're coming back. They're trying to get back slowly, get back in im. I'm in the office twice a week, so you know, things are on the uptick, man, so hopefully we can make this turn. It's good stuff. Hey, do you have a question? I actually do, Darren. I know it's been a while since

you've been on the break. I feel like we haven't had you in a long enough time that I'm not sure you know that me and me and Amber are kind of like the safety whisperers of the Dallas Cowboys media and so having the best safety and Cowboys history.

I feel like I just have to get your stance because I'm not sure I've heard it just about where things have stood with that position on this team for so long, because every year it seems like we're saying, well, they're not gonna find their Darren Winson in the draft this year. And ask the guy who played the position poor the Cowboys. You know, I looked this up when I heard you were going to be on the show. The only safety they have drafted as highly as they

drafted you since you was Roy Williams. Yeah, just they really have not prioritized it. And as somebody who appreciates the position, how do you feel about that? Well, I mean I'd love for them to go out and get a draft to safety early. Of course we all do, uh, but you listen, I trust me. The role of being a gem across the league, not just the Cowboys, it's

a tough deal. I mean, it's a tough situation, especially when there's there's players that are falling to years similar to this year when Ceedee Lamb fell to them at that spot. I mean, how do you have how do you bypass that and reach for a safety? So for any gems, that's a hard job to have. But you know, if we keep going back to that topic of well, we haven't had a safety sense. And in my opinion, I think, you know, Roy Williams was an awesome pick

when we got him. Uh you know, I think it was a setting but number eight or so when he was drafted, and his production was unbelievable. I don't know if there was anybody who had a five year span that that played at that level. You know, Roy was awesome. And and I look at teams, you know, as time has gone on, you see the cities they get drafted early. Some safeties that get drafted earlier. Those guys that like the Troy Polamal that got drafted early, the Ed Reids

to get drafted early. If you want a legitimate safety, you're gonna have to take a chance and get that guy early. But the Cowboys have been in the situations where it's been you know, you know, no, you know, no offense to heat. But Heath was a special teamers who was converted to be in a safety And if you're gonna play it that way, if you're gonna have a guy who plays who's not picked early as a safety, didn't have a huge college career as being a guy

who turned the ball over to the position. But now you expect them, you expect a special teamer to come in and fit that role. You're not gonna You're not gonna have a guy that's gonna play at that high level at that position. So yeah, I'm with you, guys. You know, if you want a guy or if you want to go trade for Jamal Adams, yea, I'd love to have Adams, but if you know there's going to be some issues when you do so, you gotta give up a lot best days, guys. A former LSU guy,

he's been he's been on that bandwagon for a while now. Absolutely, yeah, something for there. I mean, looking at what they have

done right now. Obviously we know that they didn't draft the safety and you talked about that, but looking at the like haha, Clinton Dix that they got during free agency and the four guys that they currently have, and the thought of maybe moving some of these cornerbacks into the safety position, how do you currently feel with the safety position and looking at the guys that the always

currently have for this year. I thought it was good, you know, when they brought in how Clinton Dix, I felt like, you know, that was a good pickup for them based on there is familiarity as far as haha understanding this and every time I say that name, it just killed me. But he's familiar with this defense, She'll understand what exactly they need to get done, and he can always teach the guys who aren't familiar with this defense.

So I thought that was a good pickup, knowing that that there's gonna be some at least some immediate leadership in the knowledge. As far as the knowledge aspect, I think this team is doing what they can right now at that position. I don't have a problem. I'm not big on moving guys from the satan from the cornerback position into the safety position just because you have to, just because of need. I think you still there's some still some safeties out there, some vetteran safeties out there

that you can probably take a look at. But the guys that are playing corner right now, I mean, look, I think they should stay where they are right now. Look, I know that we had a down season last year. Byron Jones is no longer here. What was his name? Cheeto? Cheeto didn't have a great season last year, But I don't know if you force him into another position. Let's see what he does this year. Let's let's go go through training camp, see how he's feeling about the position,

because he may not want to make that change. He may feel like that. No, I'm gonna say, I'm a corner. This is what I do. So you know, let's fill them out. You know, with COVID you can't really get a good look because we can't get out there on the football field right now. And it's going to be a process going through training camp. But I think they're looking at it now. Is they're they're bringing in these

he says at the safety position. I'm not so sure that you move a guy like Cheeto into into that position because yet let's play it out and corners don't want to hit, so uh, having that mentality, I mean, that's gonna be more. That's that's more of a change than your thing. In that case, when I was just gonna say so, when you look at the secondary overall, corner and safety position, how do you feel just overall? I thought, even though Byron didn't turn the ball over uh,

and didn't make dynamic plays on the ball. He was a very good corner on the outside. He was a very good, very good defensive player and and and did some good things on the outside. Replacing that production is gonna be hard. Now again, you know, people are always taking shots and the fact that he didn't have the air interceptions but he played extremely well that I just think he was a veteran guy, athletic and you didn't have to worry about Byron. And Byron played through a

lot of injuries as well. He was available, and that says a lot to me when you have that kind of guy who's going to be available to play week in and week out. Without that, Um, I'm a little nervous going into the season because I thought he was a tremendous athlete. Uh, and God, that was available, So I'm concerned about that role being out there. Well, I was hoping you would make me feel better, but you are not making me feel better, right You're up? Uh

are we going? We're gonna have him tell some stories. I know you said that there were a couple of stories you Yeah, if you thought Yeh would be the perfect person to tell. So let's get into a little story time you're on the break. Yeah, you know, Danren, we've we've had a lot of interviews over the over the years, and uh, you told some great stories and a couple that come to mind where I think both from the same season you were a veteran. In two

thousand and three, Bill Parcels comes in. He was looking to you to scorch the earth, as you said before, but talking about a couple of rookies from that team, and it kind of caught your eye or caught your ear, um and just maybe even called you out. Actually, uh, well what year was that? Was that two thousand or

two thousand three? Two thousand Bill Parcels took over. Yeah, okay, so immediately the one story I do do have that, uh that I can remember is when when Romo came in and you know, at the time, I think we had Quincy Carter U, Chad Hutchinson, and Drew Hinson were old quarterbacks. Um, if I name those right, I think I think those were our top three guys. With Drew Hinson here star start I was here was Dad Hunsinson

not here? He was three? Yeah he was, but not not Drew yet, but yeah, uh, I instantly felt like Romo was the guy, Like instantly it was the ball came off his hands differently than all the other quarterbacks, especially uh Quincy Carter, because you never knew what you're getting with what Quincy um. And Quincy was considered the starter at the time. Romo came in and we he was just running scout team, and I just felt like

there was something about him. And Sean Payton was taking his time with Romo on off the side and trying to get him, and I kept looking at this guy like the dudes out here killing us on scout team and even to the point where you know, Romo would hold the ball and he scramble around, and I was the guy on defense like that's never gonna happen in the game. You're not gonna be gonna move around and scramble like that. And by time receivers, you know, this

doesn't work that way in the NFL. Son, you know, I was that the old man saying all this so passed forward. It was exactly who that was. It starts buying time in the pocket. But he was just showing out man and in practice, and you know, made us look silly at times. And I was with camp. I was with Bill Parcels, and Bill used to sit way in the back and watch practice. And he would sit

and he would, you know, behind the defensive back. So basically the drills going on, you seven on seven or the team drills going on, he'd be way behind the defense on the field and he'd just be watching. So he calls me out there on the field and he says, hey, you know which one of these guys do you like? And I'm looking at us. I said, what do you mean which guy? He says, you know which one of the quarterbacks do you like? And I said, well the kid over here, the first year kid right here, the

one the free agent. And he's like, yeah, wrong on I said, he's the one. And he looks at me and he says, you know, I can't say it on the air. He says, g d uh, I can't play him right now. Yeah, but I can't. I said, when you asked, I said, he's better than all these guys. He says, yeah, I know, but he can't play right now. What about the other guys? And I'm like, uh wow, conversation is dead. So about a week later that we're

this isn't mini camp. We come back in after one of the practices and Romo it was very inquisitive, I mean extremely inquisitive. And he would ask questions. You know, he didn't care. Man. He walked up to a guy like me, a veteran player. He would ask me questions about defense and blah blah blahlah blah. And he was asking me about cover three at the time, you know, why we did this and why we did that as a secondary and you know when they motioned across, why

we inverted so. And they were very good, really good questions. And I told him we were having this conversation, I say, man, by the way, I said, man, look you know, I don't know what you feel about yourself and your talents. And He's like, well, you know, I feel pretty good. I'm getting comfortable. I said, no, no, no, man, I said, look, you are by far the best quarterback we have out there right far. It ain't even close. And he just

looked at me. When I I almost in that, you know that Romo looked too that like that head to the side. Look. I almost knew that he knew that, but but it completely for me. At the same time, but you know, he was just that he was built differently mentally, mentally why, I mean, you always know Romo's being dumpy. Of course, he wasn't like the most physical looking guy, but he just had this confidence about his

approach to the game that I just stood out to me. Yeah, yeah, I think I think it probably was like, see, there's another one that thinks so. You know, Wilson thinks so too. So I was probably the person I said it to him. I guarantell him. I know Parcels didn't say it to him. I know that. In fact. Yeah, the interesting was that Nick and I used to host a show the night before games on the road. It's called the Road Show, and we had Tony on one game before while he

was a rookie. I think Nick and when I know it was before he was the starter. He wasn't playing. I don't remember what you but but he told us at the end of the show, I will be the starting quarterback for this team at some point, and we all everybody got silent for a second and it was kind of like, all right, thanks for joining us, for reading right. But I mean, he always at that confidence. He always felt like he was going to be the guy at some point, and obviously it all came true

for him, so he was. I saw it right away when he joined our flag football team, and we couldn't call him Tony. We called him t but nobody in town knew what his face looked like, so he could play with him. He was really good in the regular season. I can tell you that playoffs not so good, but there it was. I mean, he threw five interceptions in a playoff game in flag football, so I was thinking,

that's probably never gonna happen. So when he was telling there, I think I flashed back to that, like, yeah, that didn't work work out, so well, we'll see about that, tea. But by far the best athlete on the field offense, defense. I mean, a bunch of scrubs like us, but I'm just saying, you can see he was a great athlete and a very great you know, mind of the game and all that stuff. Yeah you can. You can definitely tell that right away. Do we have time for one

more story? Yeah, well that same class, man, I'll tell you another one. That same class was with Jason Witten. What came in uh that year And at the time I remember someone saying like he was the youngest guy on the team. He was like twenty years old when he came in or whatnot. And I was like, man, you're looking to I mean, what was Whit was good now? But he looked really good when he first came in. I mean he and much more athletic and much faster u he than he is uh and there at the

end of his career. But he came in and I was all the defensive backs, you know, the safeties. I used to cover the slot receivers, so I would never go out and do one on ones against the tight ends. That just that was like a slap in the face. And Zimmer would be like, you want to go cover the tight ends. I'm like that, please cover the tight end really blind folding, right, So we're on two separate fields. I'm covering the I'm covering the wide receivers on one field.

The linebackers and and some of the safeties are over covering the tight ends and the running backs on the other field. And you can hear the chatter go back and forth. There's always this trash talking when you're doing one on ones and I'm over there covering the wide receivers and then I can hear this young dude eighty two over on the other on the sideline as a rookie. He's barking, right, I'm killing these dudes over here, blah blah blah, and he's calling my name out on the

other side of the field. What's it, Come over here and get you something. And I was like, this little pump rookie, right, So Zimmer goes back. Of course they're standing next to him. He's laughing, zimp and Zimm knows how good this kid is over there. I haven't. I ain't seen what Actually, I didn't know who he was. I mean I saw him in practice here and now I thought, I he's talented, but I had never faced him in a one on one situation. So Zimmer says, hey, man,

you need to go get you some of that. I said, cover a tight end. Really, he said, you need to go see this kid, this kid and flat out get it. He can play. So I said, I'm gonna go give him some. I'm gonna give him. And I always called myself the Claw back then I was like, yeah, the claw is gonna go give him. You know, I'm gonna kill this kid. So I'll walk I'll go on over there. And I run over there, and he's like, yeah, it's about time. And I'm like, man, I can't believe. First

of all, I can't believe you're talking to me. It's crazy. What. So I said, get your hands up there, you know, excuse my lang. I'm sorry. So I'm like, okay, I have a flashback. I'm sorry, So get on up there. So he gets thing up there. Man, he runs a little like crossing rounde and I'm like, man, you know, no, no, no, And then romo and it gets romo or someone throws in the ball and I say, it's a crossing round said he can't run crossing routes in one on one.

So he gets back up there. He runs a quick route I get, I get my hand on the ball, bob knock it down, and I'm talking, I'm whooping and I'm killing you. You don't run, you know. You know a little little baby over here calling me out. Why am I wasting my time? That's me, I'm wasting my time over here. So I'm about to run back everything. No, no, come back and get you. Get you. So so I'll run back over and I line up against him and he kills me too, straight round like double moves does he?

And I'm like, this is a little This kid can

run a route. And it was impressive because it just, you know, every time it got to a point to where every time that I knew he was on the other side, I said, I gotta go get me some of that, Like like that was the competitive natures we had in the nineties where Jay Noble checks out there and you know, we were going back and forth and the trash talking was you know, exponentially And that's what I missed in that break until Winton got there, is that you had the guy the tight end position that

could really play and knew he could play and wanted to get better. He wanted to go up against the best every single time. And I thought that was that and that's why he's he's a Hall of Famer man. He just extremely competitive and wants it, wants it more than most really great stories. Darren. And before we let you go, I know you got to get out of here, but real quick, I want to give you the opportunity

to talk a little bit about your podcast. I know that's something that's near and dear to you, and so just tell the people a little bit about the concept of the podcast and then told where they can find it so they can listen in. So it's the podcast of the Darren Witches Show. It's myself, Tyler Klutz, who played for a short time the Cowboys. I always joke and Tyler, I said, man, you played on damn there every continent, on every football team in the history CFL, NFL, everywhere.

He played seven years in the league. And another guy named Ben Gibbs, who played tight end at ACU and toward the great athlete towards me up. But we all worked together in the same office at ESRP, the commercial real estate firm here at the Cowboys headquarters, and for the longest time we've always had these conversations. You know, Tyler and Ben were always talking about, Hey, man, you love to hear these stories, not just football stories, but

stories about CEOs and doctors. He said, we should start a podcast. Ben Gibbs personally said we should start a podcast and just hear interesting stories. And I had just retired from from ESPN, so I was like, you know, I'm done with the media stuff. I just didn't want to go through that process again. And they finally convinced me we finally have our first show. Matt and I fell in love. It was like, this is not an ESPN show where we're scripted, we only have two minutes

to get our point across. This is a podcast where we go, we get all the way deep down, extremely transparent. We want to hear the stories. We want to hear the ups and downs. Just yesterday we had Troy Aikman on the show, and the show wasn't about so much about the football side, but it was about his life stories.

And if you hear Troy stories, there's so many times where he was at the bottom, breaking his ankle at Oklahoma and losing his job to Mel Holloway, and the mindset that he had to overcome the fact that he had to transfer out the fact that he wanted to play baseball really didn't care too much about football man. It was it was just it's interesting to hear these

stories because we always see the final product. We don't hear about the ups and downs they had to get to the challenges they had to overcome to get to that goal. So that's what the Darren Shows all about. Interesting stories. All verticals, not just sports, but all verticals. Where can we find it? You can find it on Instagram, you can find it on YouTube, you can find it all on social media, on Apple. We're on all those uh those social channels. Perfect. Hey man, we really do

appreciate you coming to join us. And don't be a stranger man. You know you could. You gotta bang it on the show. We're gonna gonna take that first break. We come back. We're gonna talk a little bit more about the owners meetings with the NFL. Well, we'll come back back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. Your new apartment's big, Such a great deal, that's okay, just okay. What's not right about the subway? Well, I bet you don't even notice it after that's my neighbor. A deal

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people saying? Was did he talped in? Telling y'all like that could be good stuff? You know? Yeah, back to the break. We're live here at the Virtual SWBC mortgage studios from our homes and we're talking Cowboys football with you guys here for the next twenty thirty minutes. We'll see how it goes. Let's jump into a little bit of the owners meetings. Jerry, as we mentioned earlier in the show, was back at the Stock. He was there in order to do the owners meetings virtually from his

office at the Star. And really, I guess the most important thing that came out of those meetings, or at least the things that were released to the public at the public got word of they came out of those meetings, really revolved around diversity and inclusion. There were a couple of rules changes that were enacted yesterday or resolutions that were passed that were that were really made in hopes of being able to create more diversity among head coaches,

among coordinators, among front office personnel in the NFL. Right now, there are four minority head coaches in the NFL. Mike Tomlin, Anthony Glenn, Ron Rivera, and Brian Flores. Are also two minority gms, Chris Greyer and Andrew Berry. But now, what teams will be forced to reckon with with regard to this is they must interview two minority head coaches that are external to the organizations, so it can't be pro

coaches that are currently on their staff. They also have to interview at least one external minority candidate for all dc OC, Senior football and GM positions, and then they're no longer allowed to block assistant coaches who are from

interviewing for those coordinator positions. Some of the things that have been talked about is, uh, some of these coaches have a hard time right now because they're being they're they're blocked by their teams from being allowed to pursue head coaching I'm sorry, coordinator positions while they're still under a contract with a particular team. So I'll ask you guys the questions, how do you how do you think this affects teams? How do you think these changes affect

the teams with regards to their hiring practices. Well, first of all, I love the last thing you just said. I love that rule better than any of them, um, and that helps all coaches. If you're a running backs coach and you want to be an offensive coordinator, but you still have two years left on your deal and you need that security to have that contract I think it is very to be able to not be blocked

that way. I've seen the Cowboys blocked a couple of coaches in that regard, and that just gives them one step further because you rarely see a head coach hired from anything other than a coordinator spot. So that just puts them and that one, you know, one step closer to uh you know, of all the things that you said, I love that one the most because I do think that helps every coach in the business, regardless of what they look like. I think that does help them. I

do love that rule. Um. I like the other ones too, but I think that one is going to be very beneficial for a lot of reasons. Yeah, I think it feels like a step in the right direction. I don't think anybody has like a perfect answer to the solution. I definitely I'm glad the NFL is trying to be proactive about it. I mean, you're talking about a league that's seventy percent African American with I mean, I mean, what did you say to two GMS and coaches and

two GMS? Yeah, I mean, do the do the math on that seventy percent African American league with like a twelve percent representation in the upper echelon. Obviously, it's something that should be addressed. I hope it helps. I don't know. I can't sit here and say that at one hundred percent will though, because at the end of the day, just like every other business, it's really more about who

you know than what you know. In my opinion, I had a conversation with somebody relatively important one time that I think kind of got to the crux of this whole issue, and he was like, well, do you really you really think an NL team wouldn't hire a guy because he's black in this day and age, Like you really believe that? And I was like, no, I don't. That's not the point at all. I think it's that if you don't get face to face with people and meet new people, then you're just going to continue this

this perpetuation. And you know, it's kind of like, you know, people get mad when when a coach's son gets hired, not necessarily that the guy's not qualified, it's just that you looked across the hall and you're like, oh, yeah, I know him, and you're just ignoring a whole host of other people. Hopefully, I really like the idea that you've got to interview somebody from outside the organization because it makes it at least a little bit harder to

just check the box and move on. Maybe you give somebody from the outside a chance to come in and really blow you away. But at the end of the day, it's not going to stop people from hiring someone they're comfortable with. And in a league where seventy five percent of the power structure is white, more often than not, a person they're comfortable with is probably also going to be white. So I don't know that this guarantees to fix anything. I think it's a step in the right direction,

but I guess we'll see. Yeah, I think that like me personally, given like my own personal experiences since I moved to the United States and just kind of being involved in a new culture and everything, I would not be where I'm at. Hell, I I'll be given a chance to do anything. You know, So you don't know how much, like they said, you don't know how much

it will actually change. But the fact of bringing some other people from the outside, being face to face and just at least presenting the chance for that person to enchant you, you know, to make you like them, to

let them voice their opinion, their thoughts, their visions. I think that hopefully that's definitely a great start, you know, to keep moving towards the right direction, and by those chances, you know, if someone is giving a chance and then they take it and it works out, then it'll hopefully open up more eyes and open things up better and think like, Okay, well, you know, maybe going outside of our comfort zone isn't that bad. You know, maybe we can't try that and it will just work out fine.

So I like that. Who knows how big of a change it will be, but it's definitely better than how it was before. Yeah, I think one of the big challenges here, and this is this is an NFL issue. This is an issue I think in general society when it comes to hiring practices, but there's a lot of gray area, and I think it's why you see in sports, particularly with athletes, you see there's probably a lot more

minority minorities that that get opportunities. And I think it's because sports still remains one of the true areas where your abilities to be able to do the job are very easy to see. Right, you can sell a running backs really good because you can look at his production, right.

It's it's a lot harder to be able to look at a position coach and say, yeah, he's a great coach, he'll be a great OC, he'll be a great DC, he'll be a great head coach, because a lot of his success is really dependent upon other people doing great jobs, right. And so there's all this gray area as to a great coach, and you usually don't see the great coach until he is the great coach, right, And so you

have a lot of gray area to play with. And those are the areas where you tend to find a lot where you have to create these these artificial ways of making sure that people who otherwise wouldn't get opportunities can get opportunities because that gray area there isn't it isn't as clear cut as who are the great coaches from the guys that aren't the great coaches. You look at a guy like Jason Garrett, he checks a lot of the boxes, and you would think he's gonna be

really successful. I thought he would be very successful with the Cowboys. I thought he was a good leader. I thought he knew how to communicate well. There are a lot of things that he checks the box on, but he never got beyond that certain point as a head coach that moved him into that upper echelon of coaches that are considered to be really really good head coaches. Right, and so there is that gray area, and I think that's really kind of what this is all meant to combat.

To some degree. You have to be you have to be fortunate. I mean, Jason Garrett was a good coach. I mean, you can't do anything for nine years. He was a good coach, but Dallas kind always need better than good, and so you know, good wasn't enough he got. He had great seasons when he really needed to. He had some bad luck as well. I mean, you know, I mean some of those games against the Packers that was that wasn't you know, fortunate for him. But he

also was fortunate in other ways. But you know, it's all about who who's around you. I mean, I know, Eric b Enemy gets a lot of talk about, you know, why he didn't get a head coaching job, and you know he probably will get a lot more chances too. But having Patrick Mahomes helps him. I mean that that helps him. Look at Jim Caldwell when he was coaching the Colts, I mean, Josh McDaniels. Those guys coach great players, and so it is kind of hard to figure out,

you know how, what's your value is. It's it about the players, is about you, It's about the system. So whatever gives them an opportunity. You know, coaches say all the time, put me in the room, let me talk, and let me let me sell myself. And I think this is gonna give them. He's gonna give it a lot of coaches an opportunity to do that more. One of the world Docum Minute examples of the Rooney Rule

and how it worked is Mike Tomlins. As the story goes, the Steelers were not necessarily thinking that he was going to be a really strong candidate, but they needed to get an African, give an African American coach an opportunity, and they gave an opportunity and he completely blew them away and it turned out being a good hire for them. They got a coach that won a Super Bowl for him.

So I think, I think ultimately that's the whole point of the Rooney Rule, and even these changes to the Rooney Rule is get the guys opportunities to get in front of the right people and then make the decision right, But at least you had it out. You gave him the opportunity to be able to sell themselves as the best head coaching candidate, the best offensive coordinating candidate, even the best GM candidate, and then based on that you can make your decision because it now gave them access

to the process. And I don't want to I'm not trying to discreditation get he's the wal credential coach. He's had a lot of success as a coach. But to go back to my point, don't you feel like his relationships around football helped him fast track his career? I mean he played for the Cowboys. He was already on Jerry Jones's radar well before he even got into coaching. Parlaid a decade plus worth of playing into getting a job with Nick Saban, very very early in his career.

And again not to discredit the guy, but relationships helped him land with the Cowboys. His father, you know, worked for the Cowboys. Like again, who you know is very important. Not everybody's going to have such a wealth of connections, and so anything you can do to get new people in a room with decision makers, hopefully you will be a good thing. And also it's like like you guys said, it's about selling yourself that when you do get that chance, that you are able to sell yourself and make it

convince him. Because for example, remember Chris Richard, like I was one of the ones, Oh yes, Chris rouchhard for a head coach, let's go, come on. But after that, once I started hearing some things of the way he interviewed with other teams that he wasn't necessarily a great interviewer, and from what I hear heard, he those interviews didn't

really go well. And the thing is that sometimes these teams they also reach out to their prior team, you know, and other dms and other people just to kind of find out, Okay, how was this guy as a coach over there, you know, behind the scenes, because yes, you get to see what he does on the field and everything, but how it goes beyond the things that you do on the field. It's also about those kinds of relationships and how are you as a leader, you know, And

that's one of the things that Garrett did have. But in general, it's just such a tricky position because so many things have to work in your favor that it's just really tough. But I do think this is a move in the right direction. I think hopefully it will help to get more opportunities that should get an opportunity, and we'll see if that ultimately ends up in them getting more jobs, because I do think at the end of the data results are just as important as the process.

So hopefully this gets some more opportunities to get involved in that process. We're gonna take our final break when we come back. We've got some questions and we're lined up some questions from you the fans. We'll do that when we come back back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. I want to use what the pros use. How about the official men's skincare brand or the Dallas Cowboys Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites,

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we're talking a little Cowboys football. We're in the final segment. Amber has some questions lined up. Amber, but do yeah, all right, let's go um. Since we have been talking about coaching, you know, head coaching position and all that, I have a question about Mike McCarthy. I know that he's on a one year deal, but do you guys think that he gets a pass if the Cowboys end

up with a loose Becker? I mean, does he have a shorter leash or it seems, you know, compared to how they were with Garrett as far as patient, you know, are you can that clarify real quick? Are you talking about what the organizations be patient with him? Or the fans or no organization? Jerry Jervis, all right, got it, Nick, you has up to say, I saw you raise your hand. Oh well, I'm maybe I'm a little confused that I don't think he's got a one year deal. That it

was that I don't know if that was the question. Um, I don't. I don't know how. I don't have the deal instructure. I think it was. It's longer been than a one year deal of year contract. Yeah, basically, it's like in this first year, in the first year, do you think that he gets like a shorter leash as far as patients WI like god? Or does he have to do a lot better than what Garrett gave you?

Got you? Yeah? Okay, Um, because we've seen in coaches you can, Gary can do whatever he wants, you know, as far as they could be a one year deal in his mind or whatever. As far as as when when does the seat start getting warm? Basically I think it's you know, he'll have a little bit of leeway. But everybody who thinks lest year's roster was good and probably will think this year's roster is is really good as well. And you know, I think that if he you know, if they lose close games where it feels

like the game was mismanaged or whatever. Then yeah, I think it'll it will It'll be this year when you start hearing, oh, I thought this guy was a little bit better. So I mean a little bit of a leash. But I think with the Dallas Cowboys head coaching position, the criticism will always be there, and it'll start from the you know, from the very beginning. Yeah, I mean the court of public opinion. People expect wins, and they expect them right away. Like if this season is even mediocre,

people are going to be upset. That's just the nature of the beast. But like the Cowboys themselves, this season would have to be an unmitigated disaster for I mean, they'd have to win five or fewer games for me to think like Mike McCarthy was going to get fired after one season on the job like that, Just that doesn't even happen. You know, nobody does that very rarely. I guess the Browns did it with Ready Kitchens, but it was an unmitigated disaster. So it would have to

be something really, really bad. And on top of that, you know, the Cowboys aren't they don't They're not having an offseason, not a traditional one at any rate, So you've already got that baked into the pie. You know, it would be really, really surprising to see the organization lose faith with him before, you know, at least two or three seasons. We'll say this though, I don't think. I don't think there's anybody in this organization and doesn't believe they have a quality team as far as the

personnel is concerned. And I'm talking a playoff caliber team and who knows what beyond that. But so I do think there would be some raised eyebrows within the organization with people that matter if this team is not a playoff team. I think there will be some questions on that because I think they feel like they already had a good roster. I think they feel like they had

a wonderful, outstanding draft, as everybody wants to say. So I think when you combine all those things, I think, and they're bringing in a coach who has the pedigree of Mike McCarthy, I think their expectations for Mike McCarthy is he's going to get this team in the playoffs and he's gonna take them a long way, and maybe that doesn't have to happen like then they don't have

to go all the way this year. But I do expect that if this is a is not a playoff team this year, I think there will be a little bit of disappointment. I think there will be expectations that he should be better, that this team should be better than that for this year. Well, talking about the quarterback position, we know that Andy Dalton is gonna be here with

the Cowboys. Going back to when Mark Stanchez was here, you know, we talked about how Mark Stanchez was able to help Dak with some of the things on the field and off the field and to kind of manage and find his way through what he was dealing with at the position. When you look at Andy Dalton, what are some of the things or qualities that he can

show Dak or what can Dak learn from him? I think, Sorry, Dave, I think that, you know, if you want to get really detailed with it, he you know, he's a guy. When Dad comes off the field, you know, he could look over at Andy Dalton and he has seen it before. He's seen it several times. He knows exactly what that

defense is like. And to be specific, there are four games on the schedule that against teams that you know, Dak hasn't played since his rookie year and Andy Dalton played him twice a year and including Cincinnati in practice. So he'll be able to kind of help from from that standpoint as well, just in those weeks on a team that's that's not going to be as familiar for

the Cowboys in the offensive for Dak. So I just think a better instead of eyes and in his mind will be something that will lean on if he allows, you know, to do that, he allows himself to do that, which I think he will not. To steal up staff on Twitter, and I apologize, I can't find I can't find who tweeted it, so I'm sorry to that person, but I saw it blew my mind, do y'all? Like Dak already holds the Cowboys record by a considerable margin

for consecutive start, more than Romo. You know, Romo obviously had a lengthy problem with injuries. Aikman had his injury issues as well, miss games and several seasons stop by, Dak is already way better than all of them. Like, I think he's got sixty four and behind him it's like thirty seven or forty something like, yeah, yeah, exactly so.

And the reason I bring it up is I was never worried about the the backup quarterback position in the sense that he would have to play, because Dak has not really given a ton of indication that he would need to come off the field. But what's always bothering me, how backup quarterback is what do any of these guys know about quarterbacking that Dak Prescott doesn't? Like, Hey, Coop, what did you see out there? He's like, I don't know. I've only played in garbage time ever in my life.

So and I mean, I'm not trying to dog Cooper rush, but you'd like to think the backup quarterback can help the starter sort of navigate his way through a game or a season or a game plan. And he started one hundred and thirty three games, he's been in the

playoffs more times than Dak. You know, I don't think he's a better quarterback than Dak right now, but he's got plenty of expertise to lend, and I think that makes him twice as valuable on top of the fact that he could step into the lineup if he needed to. There's not much to add to that. I think both those guys hit the nail on the head. It's experience, So if nothing else, he'll be able to add some experience to what Daks has and has not been able

to see. Although he's been in the league now long enough to where he's probably seeing pretty much everything. It's just a matter of having another set of eyes that tells him what he's seeing as the games going on. And and and also there's a misperception out there about competition. I think a lot of times people think that if somebody's not a real threat to take your job, that

they're not competing with you. But any any person that's competitive, any guy that's ever went out and played and saw if Andy Dalton takes the second team offense down and scores a touchdown in the first you know, practice of training camp, Dak's gonna see that. Dak knows that, and Dad's gonna make sure that you know that the offense doesn't struggle so kind about taking his job. It's just

taking to another level. And I think Andy don't even do that better than anybody that's ever been around deck. That's a really great point. Niga's just setting that bar right. You see the bar, and I feel competitor. You go try to beat the bar. Right if if Rob Phillips writes a really good story two days in a row, Dave, it's gonna be I mean, you know, it's like, hey, I'm right, I mean, hey, let's go. Yeah, that's what anybody I mean, you know, I mean we're I'm that

way as well. So it's I just think that will help. He's got somebody next to him that that will push him. And I don't think they'll be done in a healthy way. Okay, I didn't check this tat, so I don't know if it's on accurate or not. But according to this tweet, Chris Jones was the twenty third ranked putner on twenty eighteen and thirty last year. Special teams have killed us

over the last years. Any word on bringing in some competition of the punter position, you know, Mike was asked about that after the draft in one of the you know, in one of the various zoom calls that we did with them, somebody asked him about that, and he made it sound like thee they feel pretty good about what they have. I think John Fossil is comfortable or optimistic about Chris Jones. I don't. I don't argue the point, and I don't even need to look at the rest

of the NFL. Compare Chris Jones to himself. Go look at his numbers from twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen compared to the last two seasons. It's very drasticum the net punning. You know how many yards you're giving up as well as your your field position. You know, in twenty sixteen, in twenty seventeen, like he was pinning teams inside there n twenty like half the time. And it just hasn't been the case. Um So I don't argue like he

has not been up to snuff. But you bring in a new ordinator, one of the better special teams coordinators in the league, if he thinks he can work with Chris, I trust that. I'm not you know, I'm not panicking about it. You don't think they need a contingency plan. I think the contingency plan is whoever's out there when when you decide, I mean I think that you you would probably go get a veteran funner. I don't think you're gonna get a guy that's really gonna push them

all all the time in practice. But I don't I'm saying that they should or should in him. I think that stats are weird when it comes to punting. You could be on the forty yard line, you could punt it to the ten. That's a good punt, but it looks like a thirty yard punt to the guy in New York and it doesn't look great. So the people that know are the ones that are right here, the ones that are in the press box, Dave Derek Amber that watch it and go, they need a really good

punt here. And that wasn't the you know, like you could just tell from the eyes. And he struggled him last year. Now, he did have a pack injury that affected him all last year. Wasn't publicly known a lot. But I do think that if he's healthy, he can be better. But the watches on him because they have to be better than they want what they were. And the tough part for me is that it's been two years now. It was last year and the year before

that he wasn't great. And so that's what makes me start to think, at this point, maybe you're seeing a decline. Maybe they can get more out of him. I certainly I am open to the idea if you bring in a new special teams coordinator and he's supposed to be one of the best in the league, and maybe he figures out some ways to be able to help him and to be able to get him back to what he was two years ago. But as of right now,

I think they needed contingency planning. Again. Maybe the thought is the contingency plan means that you know whoever's out on the street right now, like he is going to be out on the street once you get the training camp and beyond. So if you need to make a move, you already have that short list to call those guys

up and you make the move. But I just hope that they're thinking in that way because I don't trust necessarily right now that he's going to be He's gonna have it about face from what he's been the last two years. I think with him, let's not roll out how good is his arm or how good is his legs, because nobody runs more fake punts than John Fossil. He runs them all the time and would have seen a couple of fake punts out of Chris Jones. He's a

good athlete, So that's gonna factor into this. I mean, I know we're joking around about it, but I mean they're gonna run some fake punts and I think he's pretty good, you know, guy to have in that regard. Obviously, you want to see how well he punted Doe of his job or I'd say seventy five. He is a holder as well, but you know, his athletic ability, the punter's applicability is important to a John Fossil special team.

This probably applies to like any business, but my border, like my base side attitude toward any player that struggled is I'm like, it's you know, it's a brand new coaching staff, it's an all new past, and the schemes are gonna change. And for the most part, I'm just willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt, um and let these let these coaches see what they can do with them, and you can reevaluate if that's not the case once you start playing football. But I feel

planning optimistic that Jones can bounce that. I real quick, Ambert, before we end the show, I wanted to get back to that question I was about and to ask you guys in the first segment about Cheeto, I'll retee it out. But Sankya Pruland of NFL dot Com, she asked he was talking about. She made one player from every team that she thought was undervalued. She named Cheto Luzier, the

guy for the Cowboys. She said he's been far us talked about despite forcing eighteen in completions in twenty nineteen, third most in the NFL, a stat I did not know. We also did some research looking into just pro football

focuses coverage ratings. Richard Sherman was at the top of the list with ninety point five rating, Byron Jones was sixteenth at seventy four point eight rating, and Cheeto this was number twenty six at seventy point five rating, which, if you think about it, you got thirty two teams, and that means you got two cornerbacks at least on all those teams, not including the third cornerback, which you would make that number even higher. So twenty six is not a horrible place as far as a ranking in

the NFL as far as cornerbacks. My question for you guys is have we undervalued what Cheetah bay Olusier has been for this team at quarterback? Quarterback. Let's start with you, Dave, and talk out both sides of my mouth a little bit, because one I do think Cheeto probably like the rap, is worse than the actual onfield product. It is hard to play cornerback. It's a thankless job. If you give up completions, that's what people remember. I think you can

say the same thing about Anthony Brown. I think he is a better player than the public discourse gives him credit for having said that. I can't sit here and say that I think Cheeto is undervalued, Like you can go back and watch like the plays are there. His coverage is usually good, but at some point you have to admit that the imposing receiver makes the reception. You have to admit that he had problems finding the ball

with how often he was targeted. You have to admit that he was taken out of a game by the coaching staff for coming late on an angle and giving up a big run play. I think it was against who was that against? It was like Buffalo, Maybe it was like in December. I don't know, but he was pulled out of the starting lineup by the coaching staff.

So all that stuff is still true. Um, it's kind of like what I said about Chris Jones is like I'm I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, had a change of coaches and a change of scenery to do him good. I do think he's a capable NFL starter, but I can't come as far as to say he's the most undervalued player on the roster. Definitely not. I think that. I think the premise behind that point is the fact that he's ranked one hundred and twelve

in a league in cornerbacks average salary. He's making just over a million. I think he's fifth on the Cowboys roster, right ahead of C. J. Goodwin, who's not ever gonna play corner and Daryl Whorley, and Trevon Diggs who's never had a snap, and Anthony Brown, and I think there's a there's an and Maurice Kennedy. They're all ranked, you know, higher than him, and he could be your best cornerback.

Keito could be um. So I think that's where where that comes in, and it comes into you know, anytime you get in the last year of your deal, you're going to be under about you because you're probably a good player that's starting, and your contracts still not there yet because he ever got a set a deal. So I think he's he's good. Like Dave said, I agree with everything Dave said. He had some problems last year. Your expectations were higher, but I think that you know,

he's making a million dollars a year. There's a lot of corners making work, and a lot of them aren't even cornerbacks. In this league, there's special teams guys this before. I do see the talent in him. I think we've seen it before. We've seen the kind of like competitive nature that he has. He's a physical guy. He he can do it. He can do it. I had in my heart, I had high hopes for him last year. Obviously didn't go. I'm sure how he planned to go.

But when you talk about a guy like him, I think that regardless of whatever people say, regardless of whatever stats this year, he's gonna have a lot to prove if he wants to even stay on the team. So at this point, whether he's undervalued or not, you just you gotta step it up and just find a place on the roster. And if you talk about undervalue, I mean I would be talking about a guy like Jordan Lewis instead, you know when you're looking at those stats.

But but yeah, he hopefully can step it up this year and with the addition of these other younger guys that can bring out more competitiveness out of everyone and we'll see what happens there at the position. All Right, that's rap. We appreciate you guys joining us this week. We'll be back next week at our normal time Wednesday's at eleven am till then Nick eat mc, Dave helm and Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eagleton. This has been

The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.