Cowboys Break: Who Leaves The Biggest Void?

We are live from Oxnard, California. It is our first day on the air heading into this training camp and into this season. I'm very happy to be back on the air with my co host, dear Nick Amber Dave, and we appreciate you guys taking some time with us today. We'll be on everyday every day at ten am Pacific time noon Central Time to talk Cowboys football Monday through Friday, live from Oxnard, throughout the the whole training camp this year.

How's everybody doing this morning? Ready to go? Great? Good? I'm great. Derek Hapy birthday, Dad? Oh Hapy birthday, Dad Birthday. I don't know if he's awake, Hid, but he'll watch it on demand. Yep. Speaking of on demand, I do have a couple of new features I wanted to tell our listeners about. Oh yeah, yeah, because we got some cool stuff that they can do with our mobile app. Actually, UM, as we are here on the show, if you want to interact live, make sure you go to our mobile app.

It's Cowboys Mobile UM. Once you download that. If you go into the app and you click on talk, you'll see up there at the top there these three options. One of ums Talk. You click on that, and then you click on Cowboys Break. You'll notice that there is a little feature. There's this little meter and these s thumbs up yes, No. What you can do is throughout the show, as we are talking about specific topics, we'll

kind of move it around. There may be pole questions that will put up there that you can say yes or notes. But if just in general you agree with something that someone's saying. Let's say I'm talking and you say, yeah, Derek's right, Derek knows exactly what he's talking, We're gonna get a ton of down. Can you click thumbs up and then you click vote, and then you can click

it as many times as you want. If Dave is saying something on the other hand, and you're like, Dave has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, which is pretty fair. Then you just click thumbs down and you can click vote, and you can do that as many times as you like, and that meter then takes all the different thumbs up thumbs downs that fans are are pushing and put them all together to tell you kind of the sentiment of what fans are thinking from what

we're talking about. So I think it's a really cool feature. You guys, check it out, play with it. We're gonna keep playing with it and tweaking it until we get it to where it's perfect. But I know that that's there, and we appreciate you guys taking part. So let's jump right in. I do want to talk. We have a lot of things we need to hit today. I think the first thing we're gonna talk about is the safety position. Yesterday, there were a few things that came out of the

press conference that we're a bit surprising. But one of the things we found out after the press friends in a press release, was that Cavon Frasier has been placed on the NFI list um And so at this point there doesn't seem like, there's a lot of news, but catch us up on at least what we know at this point and kind of what that means for the team heading into camp. Well, what what that means is that he won't be able to practice right away, um until he's removed from that list. I think that being

very uh, just cautious about the situation with him. Um, there's been some reports out there there's a possible blood disorder. They're just looking at some of his blood work. UM, we uh had There's been no official word of the team right now, but that's kind of what what we've sort of gathered. And you know, I think this is one of those things very serious obviously, and you want to just make sure that that before they put him

out there that he's good to go. So right now they're holding him back, um, and and that's a that's a setback obviously for him for the safety position and definitely for special teams. Yeah, when you talk about this, uh, this position, it was something that Stephen mentioned yesterday in his press conference and he was mentioning the question. You could tell I think Brad was the one that answered asked it, but you could tell he was pointing to

Earl Thomas. Didn't want to say Earl Thomas because it immediately when you say Earl Thomas too. Basically, any Cowboys, you know, executive, they are going to say no comment. They can't talk about a player on the contract. However, as he was talking about him, he talked about Xavier Woods and mentioned the fact that that was one of the reasons why they draft him is because they thought that he could be maybe this type of safety could playmaking type safety day. Take us back to the draft

a couple of years ago. I know this was a guy that was a pet cat for you guys, and what you guys saw on him that may make someone believe that possibly he could be the caliber of safety that they want. Yeah, we'll forget what I think. Like, it's clearly that the Cowboys feel confident about that because they haven't done anything about the position. They didn't draft anybody, they haven't signed a plethora. I mean, forget Earl Thomas.

They didn't go after safeties in free agency, they didn't spend a draft pick on one, and they've pointed to Xavier Woods by name all along as as the reason why they feel okay about that he's a sixth round pick. It's widely accepted that I still never figure that out. Like his tumble down the draft board was crazy because us on the Draft Show we had a third round grade on him. I know the Cowboys had a high

grade on him compared to where they got him. And so I mean they Stephen Jones brought that up yesterday. They traded a pick away to move up and get him last year, which, ironically enough, like he didn't play that much free safety last year, Like he spent most of his time playing in the slot, which is a testament to his athleticism that he can kind of do

that on the fly. But you know, Amber, you and I went back and forth about this all through the offseason, like that, they clearly have a ton of confidence in the guy, just by virtue of the fact that I can't remember a time when a guy had such a big opportunity to win a job. You know, I mean Mark Weston huff is on the roster. Okay, that's cool, but really they didn't do a ton in the way of bringing in competition for Xavier Woods, and I think that speaks a ton to what they hope for him.

And you know, we're going to see that play out over the next two weeks, to see if he's up to the challenge. Amber. How much does Cava and Frasier's status at this point make you think that the Cowboys should or shouldn't run out and get another safety to add to this mix. I mean, even before him being out, with this whole situation, it was already a problem. The safety position, the depth in it, the experience in it, was already an issue. Now I have a bigger issue now,

just in the whole defense. Before I was really concerned about safety, Now I'm concerned about the whole defense overall. I was starting to feel towards the end of last year that this defense was moving forward, you know, progressing the defensive line of past rush was getting better, and you saw hope in there. Now with everything happening, David Irving being out, Malie Collins, all that stuff, now it's not just a safety position. Now it's turning into a

bigger issue. And we know that well a lot of people will argue that defense win games. So Geez doom and gloom Garcia over here. My god, it's the first day. It is the first day. But shoot, I mean I was expecting to be more excited. I was excited about the defense and now hot surprise, here you go. This is what we start off with. Yeah, I think it's important. I mean, unfortunately, I don't know the extent of what the deal is with Kevon uh. Like, there's we know

he's being tested supposedly for a potential blood disorder. There's other reports out there that you know, maybe you know you can treat it with medication. Maybe it's not that serious. I don't know, And so I get leery about trying to project project stuff like that. We'll see what comes of it. I'm sure Jason Garrett's going to talk about it today. Physically he looks fine physically. Yeah. No, So I don't know. I want to see where that goes. But yeah, I mean we didn't love what they did

at safety to begin with. Yeah, and then now you're talking about your primary two defensive tackles not being here on the first day of camp. Like, I get your point. I do. Nick. You made an interesting point in our pre show meeting about Earl Thomas and just the thoughts on you know, looking at this, it's not just an

equation of can he help your team. There's a bigger equation that you think has to be factory in as to whether you would go out and try to get trade for a guy like, yeah, is this team good enough to to go and and kind of you know, lose a draft pick or two for next year. I mean, I think that you need to decide and figure out here at camp what kind of team you've got, what kind of offense you gotta You're gonna score some points,

You're gonna be able to win some games. Do you are you a player or two away from maybe going over the top. If this looks like a situation where you know, it's really if he is it? Dicey is it? Are we gonna have a high second round pick next year? Why why would we want to you know, let that go? But I think that so it's not just about how Xavier Woods does. It's just what kind of team we have do we need to really just get over the top here? And then he's a guy that that could

maybe go do that. But sounds like it's just you know that the Cowboys are not the only team interested, or if they're interested at all, they're not the only team might on the radar. And so you know, if I'm Seattle. I probably if they're gonna trade him, I would trade him somebody in the AFC. You could probably get some you know, comparable stuff. So I just think the Cowboys need to decide is he worth going to get or anybody going to get? Because you know what

type of team overall we can have. If you had to answer that question, and I'll ask all three of you, if you had to answer that question, is this team good enough to invest what you'd have to invest to go out and get somebody that caliber? Is it worth doing right now? I'll start with because right now I think people are nationally are saying this team's eight and eight, nine and seven, maybe you know ten and six team

right kind in the middle. Um, I honestly believe if you went out and got him right now, I think the Cowboys would be one of the top eight or nine teams in the league. I think this is a good football team. I think it'd be really good football team if you brought in a player like that in that that calibert because that's a position that could definitely use it. CCCCCCC. But I mean that's that we talked

about here. That's funny. Uh No, I think this team needs someone like that, especially when you're playing for your job as far as you know, starting coaching positions. You know, you're you're really living it all on the field this year and just putting it all out there and see where he can take you. Now, do I see the Cowboys doing that kind of move? I don't know. I mean, that's a ballsy move, you know. I don't know why that's the term you guys Americans use right over there

were Americans. I mean, sorry, is that a bad word? I'm learning from you guys. That's y'all's fault. No, there's nothing wrong with say it with your chest anyways. It's such a drastic move, you know, a flamboyant move like that. I don't know. He'll be absolutely surprising to see the Cowboys actually doing that move, you know, after talking about it so long, we'll see. Y'all are going to accuse me of being a contrarian, but I reject. I reject

that whole premise. I don't go get Earl Thomas to put me over the top this year, because if you're getting Earl Thomas, you gotta sign him to a new deal anyway. So I'm going to get him, because all of my dbs are twenty six or younger, and with very few exceptions, most of them don't have a lot of skins on the wall. In the NFL, he is an alpha dog. He is one of the best safeties

in recent memory, if not ever. He sets the tone for your whole secondary And if you make the effort to get him, he's gonna be here for I would guess at least three seasons. So I look at that as a big picture move. It's probably the last deal he's going to sign in his prime. Hopefully he's still in his prime. Like, I mean, that's a whole other conversation.

But I'm getting him to base. I mean, I know Sean Lee's there, but I'm getting him to be the face of my defense and the tone setter for my defense for basically this this whole window, this next three four years. So you know, I know people love to talk about like Charles Haley and Dion Sanders putting the Cowboys over the top back in the old days. Though I mean, that's a different era of football. It's not

how it works these days. Um, So I don't I don't believe in the concept of doing something like that for one season, but I think he's young enough and good enough that he could put a stamp on your defense for the next three or four years. I think we're saying the same thing because I mean, so you're saying next year, if if if if, if they if they get out there, and for some reason you're like, this team doesn't have it, I'd still try to get him,

because you're I mean, this team is the nucleus. This team is going to be together for the foreseeable future. I mean, who that's important is going away anytime soon. Well, then then why wouldn't you just wait and then try to get him when he's a free agent, because you can. I mean, that's one more season out of his prime. I mean, like, get him, get him now, get him to a more First of all, he won't hit the

open market. If you do that, you trade for him, and then you can negotiate a deal with him, and then, you know, football players only have a finite, finite amount of time. I'd rather have him on my team right now and try to make the best of it than you know, wait for the future. So basically, you you argued with us, but said the same thing. You just had a different reason for it. Yeah. No, no, Yeah, he's agreeing go get him, he's saying for different reasons. Yeah,

I agree. No, I agree to go get him. I just yeah, not like a knee jerk, like six month decision. I mean, this is you got to commit to it. I agree, you do have to sign him, you have signed a long term deal. But you know that's what he won. He wants to play with the Cowboys. Yeah, and but pretty clear, I do agree with what you're saying, Dave, because mainly, and we're gonna talk about this a little later in the next segment, you look at this team. You look at a lot of the veteran leadership that's

been here traditionally over the last several years. They're gone now, and and we're gonna get into the question of who's gonna fill that void. And I don't know if when you start talking about that secondary room, if there are a lot of options for people that can step in and fill that void of leadership, that that bring that passion, bring that extra experience that they don't really have, because, like you said, all those guys are young and and

to this point mainly unproven. Other than guys like a Jeff Heathless. Yeah, I think that if you're gonna do that, I've said this all along. I don't know how late we're getting in the game here. It would have been nice if you're gonna bring a veteran and bring him in early so he has a chance to really be in the offseason he comes here or anybody that comes here, and it's like, well, you know, I mean, it'll still work. It'll still his name speaks fore, Yeah, it does. It does.

I think we're gonna we're gonna look back several times and go, maybe they should have given a second round pick for him. You know, we'll see. I mean, I mean, Connor Williams is going to have to come in and really just do great things. And maybe he will, but I guarantee every time he misses a block or Tyron Crawford gets buy him or something like that, or penalty could have had, you know, and that's it's bad. It's like Greg Ellis, who got compared to a wide receiver

his whole career. He might get compared to a safety. Yeah. But the flip side to that is with this young secondary, if a n Xavier Wood type player actually ends up making some plays this year and showing them what they thought they saw in film of him in college. Now you get into the next offseason, maybe that's a move point at that at that time, like if these young guys, and I heard you saying this yesterday on the show Nick Um, with these cornerbacks, you expect these cornerbacks are

gonna take a jump. These cornerbacks take a jump, and they now really are starting to jail and starting to figure this thing out. And then you get some pretty good play from Xavier Woods and and then just from the rest of those guys, you kind of just get a little okay play. It may change the whole dynamic, and you say you don't want to necessarily bring in a veteran. You like these young guys developing together as

a core, and you're gonna keep them together. The best pair of cornerbacks in the NFL heading into twenty nineteen, that's the two best corners. Maybe not not the best in the league, but yeah, And the weird part is is one of them has got to get into a starting job. I'm sorry, I'm not putting Byron Jones in that group. I'm putting Jordan Lewis. I think Jordan Lewis has a chance to be phenomenal. I really do. He's a good player, and he's got a great attitude work

ethic that that'll turn him into a great player. I mean everything. There's nothing not to like about him in my opinion. All right, let's check our first break. When we come back, I want to change the conversation a little bit. We're gonna talk a little bit about those voids that have been left by the departure of Dez Bryan and Jason widd and Orlando Scandrick. We'll do that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. It can be hard to find the right

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Back to the Break Welcome back. It is the second segment of the Break life from actually from Oxnard, California. We're here in sunny California. Actually not as cool as it once was when we used to come here for training camp, but still much better than what's been going on in Dallas, so I will not complain. We're gonna talk a little bit this segment about the three that are not here this camp, and it seemed a little

strange to me. I'm sure you guys probably felt it a little bit as well, But getting on the plane heading out here and not seeing guys like Jason Witten and Dez Bryan and Orlando Scandrick seemed a bit weird because for the last how many years now, nine eight nine years, you pretty much have had that steady flow of those veterans being around, and they are their personalities are big enough and their presence is big enough that when they walk in the room, when they walk on

the plane, when they walk on the field, you immediately notice them. And that's missing. Talk to me about just kind of how you think the Cowboys adapt overall to coming into a camp without their presence. Well, I'll start um. Obviously, I think it starts with Witton. As far as just his leadership. I think that that's something that not only you know, it doesn't have to be an offensive guy,

don't have to be a tight end. It's got to be you know, just somebody that it is okay to have enough skins on the wall to to say, you know, this is how we run this drill, this is how we do this that you know that's not okay. Pull a guy aside and be able to do that. The problem with leaders and you talk about all sports. Who are the great leaders out there? You know? I mean, it seems like ray Lewis always comes to mind. Well, ray Lewis is a pretty good football players, the first

ballot Hall of Famer Magic Johnson. I mean, you can't, no one can be just be a leader just because you say good things. I mean, I mean, I mean Brady James, he tried for years to be a good leader. But if you miss plays and misstackles too, then it's kind of it's hard to do that. There's only you got to be a certain level. That's why Jason Witten could do that. There's Bryant to me as a leader on a different level as far as bringing attitude, bringing

energy and that kind of stuff. But so from that standpoint, from those two things, those two, those two guys will be missed. I just put the missed two. I'm I'm I'm not really saying the third. Well, we just finished talking a lot about the secondary room and the lack of experience there. So if nothing else, Now, don't get

me wrong, I don't think he was necessarily a great leader. Yeah, but what I will say is there was amount of experience that when you get out on the field and you're in the you know, the critical part of a game. There's experience that he can bring to the table to say, hey, let's be careful, let's watch out for this, let's think about this that maybe some of these guys can't do because they don't have that level of experience. I get your point, and maybe this is just like beginning of

training camp optimism. But like it's all I mean, first of all, okay, it's not the same position, but like Shaun Lee's there, and like Sean shan Lee is, he's there for now. Well that's always you got. That has to be FASTI I mean, that's all we can talk about right now, right I mean, I'm not on the day on the first day of practice. I'm not worried about twenty twenty, you know. Um, and I'm talking about

game five, game six, game seven. Hey, I know it's not quite the same thing, but he'll still be but he's going away he's I mean, if you watched All or Nothing, that dude was leading the defensive absolutely absolutely, But on the field, critical moment of the game, who's that person that in which secondary group it goes in able to she had that experience, it goes back to what I was gonna say before that, which is like maybe it's misguided optimism, but like this group doesn't know

what it doesn't know, and I view it as a good thing, like because you know, Orlando Scandrick a better player than he got rep got credit for. But like it's almost like you can get in your own head sometimes when when you know when you're experienced that way, Like these guys haven't been burned to the point where they're worried about it, you know what I mean. And I think it gives them a lot of confidence. Now will it always be that way? Probably not, because you're

gonna get beat in the NFL eventually. But I just love the confidence that this dB group has, and like I I don't worry about them. You know, Jason Garrett loves to like the moment's not too big for him. Like that's how I feel about these guys, and until proven otherwise, I just I feel good that they're gonna be okay with it. Like those guys are not lacking for confidence, and I don't like they're not wide eyed

like looking for a leader. I think they're okay where I think that this team is going to struggle at times is when you get to those dog days of camp. You get those days where it's just not for whatever the reason, the energy levels not what it needs to be. That's one thing you could always count on with Dez. Dez was so competitive. He was so high, strong, and he was always going to get in someone's face, and he actually rose that level of competition for everybody around him,

the DBS and everyone's getting involved. This guy's talking trash and all this, and next thing you know, you're having a pretty spirited practice. That's what I think is going to be missed. And also Jason Witten was pretty good at doing that as well. That's where you know, I'm hoping this year, with the NFL cloud over away from him, I think Zeke can maybe get back to being Zeke a little bit. Last year he was going through the motions and rightfully so I think he might be a

guy that can kind of do that. I hope to see that. You know, I hate to say reckless, you know with him, but on the field, just want to beat He's you know, which will be a five year old. They got that little challenge people in practice to make them, yeah, get a little angry and then you got a little bit of a little more competition. I'll be a contrarian again a little bit because like maybe this is controversial, like I did, I don't look as at Dez Bryant

as a leader. He'd been on the team for a decade, he was never named captain. He's we know all about his volatile nature, missing meetings, being late to meetings, skipped his MRI. Like he's not Jason Witten in that just constant dependability sent what he is. He's just like an unbridled spark plug like he just like I mean, he's bringing the energy honestly, whether you want him to or not. I don't. I don't think so, like I I I think there's a difference. I like he he's the emotional

core of this team. Yes, But like like Jason Garrett always says this too, like are you looking at Dez Bryant like be like that guy in every facet of a football player? Like No, I don't think so. Um, But what I'm saying is is that he did things his energy brought to the point that other people followed suit. Yeah, and that therefore you are a leader. I'm not saying a good leader. I'm not saying you go. You know, he is the front line of defense and in a

model citizen. I'm just saying he was a leader in that standpoint. Yeah, No, I mean and you for sure. And that's that's something that the team right now. I don't know who has that other than Sean Lee. How I see it is like both does and went and have been the face of the franchise for so long already that coming in as new guys, you see, you

idolize them, you want to be like them. So coming in you are next to an idol, a guy that you admire, not necessarily for their leadership as far as does, but someone you want to be like them and be better and maybe perform good in front of them, not be embarrassed like oh here's my idol and now he's watching me and now I suck. No, you want to do good the famous word I thought. So that's how

I mean. That's for me what is gonna be missed as far as the dynamic in the group, just having that kind of person that ups the level and makes you want to be better in him and press them. I think that this those two guys being gone will probably you know, in a way help DA's leadership because you know, if Dak sits there and we saw it, we saw Chad's green jump offsides whatever, and Dad, you know, put the ball in the ground and yelled at him and all that kind of stuff. But Witton had a

lot of penalties too. Des Brian had to be told where to line up all the time. You're not yelling at those guys in practice because of what might happen after that. UM gets to a point where Dak is the main guy and the leader. Now if Kitty do that, the tyrant smith does he need to you know, good luck with that. But but that's where it needs to be because now all the receivers, he should be able to do that, all the tight ends. For sure, he should be able to kind of be the leader. And

UM so hopefully that that'll happen with him a little bit. Yeah, we have him in used to the quarterback being in the guy that kind of sparks the team. A lot of teams are about like that, right, But but maybe that's what's gonna happen is that you're yeah, but I don't I don't think he had to be because there were other guys that always when he came in when

he became the starter. There were all sorts of leaders on this team, right, but even beyond that, as time kept going, you know, there were other guys that kind of assumed that role more than he had to. Now that doesn't mean he wasn't leader. I'm not saying he wasn't a leader. I'm just saying he never was. To me, it wasn't didn't seem like he was kind of the

spark club like you said, Dez was that. Dez was that guy that something happened in practice and he could have in just a split moment, something could happen to where he could spark enough anger by somebody else where. Now offense and defense are going at it, and you got yourself a good spirit, remember they And there's a story. But because he used to steal our golf cart, oh go cart all the time. He would just you know, and so we were that, all right, you can have it.

Your backs messed up up, and you know you can have it. Just put a helmet cam on for one practice and let's get a video out of it. He's like, Okay, I'll do that. I stole their golf cart. I'll do it. So we put it on. He goes, you guys probably know this story, puts it on, and we're like, oh, this is good. We can kind of start already start to hear some of the things he's saying and like this is gonna be great, and trying to figure out how I'm going to get this on camera. But he's

walking for it, go for it. I can't. He's walking out to practice and he's got it and he's like, oh, this is cool, and we're all listen to it, and he's like, he doesn't he doesn't initialize it. He says, let's f him up today, Like I mean, just yelled it as loud as he could and he kept doing it the whole time. He probably did it on purpose. But so now we really can't use it. But but you could see in the huddles and stuff he actually has more of that leadership qualities than you didn't. I

think a lot of people thought it from him. So but Dak's gotta be that way. Dak's gotta be the guy. I mean, I've said it several times. He's he's the guy, and this offense has been you know, tailored for him. Yeah, I think there are three things that the Cowboys can miss, and we've kind of talked around them, but I want to get definitive words to meet you guys, what you think will be the biggest void. It can be in the experience, it can be in leadership, it can be

in passion. Let's go around the table. I want each you to tell me which one you think will be the biggest void that'll be left by those guys being gone. Experience, leadership, or passion. Let's start with you, Dave. Passion just and I mean maybe it's overrated because like it's fun for us to see, you know, I mean Dez and Sean Lee, Jason Jason Witten is underrated in terms of like the way he used to carry himself on the practice field. I don't know who that is now. I mean, Shaun

Lee's still here for sure. I think I think Jordan Lewis and Cheeto Woozier will bring an element of that. I hope Zeke brings an element of that, but I don't know for sure. And other than that, I have no idea. I mean, I don't worry about experience because like there's experience all over this team, like the whole I mean, the offensive line is experience as you want to get Zeke for being a young guy is insanely I mean, it's it's all over the place. I don't

care about that. And there's plenty of leaders here too. I don't know who's going to be the spark plug for this team the way thats was Garcia. But see, I wouldn't go with passion just because you have I mean, these guys have to be passionate. You have so many young guys coming in playing in the NFL, playing for the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, you have to be so passionate about it and so excited and you're so new to it that you want to do your best and

do well. So I would go with probably leadership, although we have the only guy thinking about it would be shun Lee that I would be like, oh my god, that my eyes spark up and I admire him, you know, And we talked about Dak and all that, but I just isn't there yet. I don't know. We'll see how he does this year. But I would say I would be lacking leadership good list Derek, because I'm gonna go

with experience very good. So the reason for that is because especially when I look at Witton and Dez at those positions, you really have a lot of your lacking experience there and you need to be on the same page with your quarterback. So I think with those two guys you have tight ends. I mean, was it nine catches combined for all of the tight ends out there? The receivers. There's a lot of new faces there as well, and we've already seen it. These guys aren't on the

same page with their quarterback. There could be some issues. Now. Now I understand that Dez and Dak, I mean that just because that he was here for eight years doesn't mean that they were on the same page. But I do think those two positions you're gonna see a lack of experience there that that's what needs to be fixed really quickly here. All right, Yeah, I'll say, you know, it's kind of scaring me a little bit. It's probably second time on this show, maybe a second time ever.

I'm actually agreeing with Dave on this one, mainly because because what I look at all of this, I think from the stad one, you know, rap music don't get me started. Well, the thing about it is, when you look at what this team does well What would you guys say, is the thing they do best run the ball. Run the ball, And we can talk about running the when they when they run the ball, they're really good.

You're really good at getting right there. If you think about them running the ball, that's where their experience is. And so what they do best, they've got tons of experience, They've got tons of leadership there. So I think from those standpoints, I'm a little less concerned in those two areas. I'm most concerned about what happens in week two. I heard you say an amber that these are young guys, they should be excited about this opportunity. They're going to

be excited. Yes, today, they're gonna be flying around. Tomorrow they're gonna be flying around. What's gonna happen like next Thursday or Friday after they've had all these days the same thing. The monotony of going to meetings, going to practice, going to walk through, going to lift weights, Like, after

a while, there's a monotony that sets in. And if there isn't somebody out there that can take what is just a going through the motions and turned it into who means now you and I personally are competing because I just called you out, then you missed those opportunities of those practices turning into a really great competitive situation.

Are you saying that they need to be to be passionate, They're gonna need that somebody to be that, you know, to actually get him in gear, which would be to her point of leadership, and mean maybe to my point of experience. Well, but here's the deal. I'll give you the example. I think we're all right. I think I think leadership recognizes it. I don't know if leadership always

has the ability to be a spark club. Right The leaders out there may know, yeah, hey, here's a problem, we gotta we gotta pep this up, and then they say, come on, God, just pep it up. May not may

not do enough to get the passion in. It's being able to literally say as we saw Witten do where he calls out of guys, says get the scrub off the field, and now the defense is like, oh, he's talking, okay, look, you know it's that kinds toes a little more pass We've seen the we've seen all of that gone to waste. Where did that take you? Well, but just because you're doing the right things, and the results don't end up being what you wanted to be. Doesn't mean you stop

doing the right now, I get it. But what I'm saying it's like, Okay, clearly that went to waste great players. I mean you could have gotten des Bryant. We know he had talent. He has talent, it just wasn't It wasn't working out when we know what he could do, and unfortunately him and Tony ended up going away without you know, winning a championship. Yeah, so it's sad. It's sad to see those kind of talent being wasted and

not being well used. Now you have a team, a young team that it's absolutely unknown and maybe I mean maybe was the coaching, maybe was the players. We don't know yet. We'll see once we get on the field. But this unknown makes you, I mean, you have no other way but to be excited for it and hope that it turns out the best way. Absolutely, And to be honest with you, I'm more excited about this training camp that I've been about a camp in a long time,

mainly because there is the unknown. You don't know who's gonna be the guy that steps up. By the time we were done with this camp, it's very real and very possible that we're talking about all these voids and very easily somebody steps into each of them. We'll find out. Maybe it's Alan Hearns, it comes out here and provides a spark plug for him. I don't know. I haven't seen him in a practice situation. Maybe it's Terence Williams.

The point is we don't know all those things yet, and that's what makes this camp I think particularly exciting for me at least, and for death that you were talking about deaths and the you know, the passion that he brings and all that stuff. It's fun to watch him on the field here at practice, But what did that do during game days on the sideline? How did that affect that in the meeting rooms? As we saw

that wasn't also positive thing exactly. So maybe that's just what Dad needed, you know, a little silence, Let me focus on the game, let me watch this little thing on the iPad, Let me figure out what I need to do and get on the game. Don't need anyone yelling at my ears, you know. Although it was it came from a good heart, but maybe that's the change it needed to happen. You know, I think I think with Dez, the thing that made him so great is the thing that made him kind of a pain in

the ass sometimes. I mean it was that it was that emotion. Maybe make that's I don't know you can say the same for Witten. But I mean, you know there's a chance that this, you know, this offense can be And you guys actually said it more in the offseason I think than I did. But but I'm coming

around a little bit. I think this team can be a little bit more balanced than they were, um maybe without Witting, you know, just because that's the hope, just because of you can you you can do more things, and you could probably be more vertical, you know, in your in your passing game with him and and and just have different guys out there. I mean, I was still playing at a at a pretty high level. So

you're gonna have to replace Production or Witten. Oh well, I mean there's too I mean, this team's don't think is the best wide receiver was the best receiver on the team. I think we did agree on that, I and that maybe we got to see more from Buttons from Herns, but but I honestly, I don't I don't know if I would say where Dez is at this point in his career, um if if he is a better player than what Alan Hearns is, I'm not certain about that. We will find that out, all right, Let's

take our final break. When we come back, we got to talk a little bit about David Irvy. That was another part of the press conference yesterday that completely shocked me, and so I want to see if it shocked you as well, when when Jerry mentioned that they didn't expect to see him out at all here at all during training camp. So we'll talk a little bit about that and talk about how that affects this defensive line, particularly the defensive tackle position. That when we come right back.

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for details or att dot com. Sleft Samsung fifty du laputure supports F one five x two four mood du labiaturs installed on the rear camera. Back to the Break Welcome Back. It is the final segment of the Break Live mox Star Californiacome Back. It is our first show here in California. We'll be doing this every day at noon Central time at ten pm I sorry ten am on the West coast, so it makes you join us each day let's talk a little bit about David Irving.

We found out yesterday in the pre US conference. Um Jerry made the comment we don't really expect to see him out here during training camp speaking of David Irving and I I did a double take, and Brian was right in front of me, and he did the same thing I did. Like, somebody followed that up and say, are you saying he's not coming at all? That was a bit of a shock for me. I don't know if you guys saw it as such or you kind of had heard things before, but straight to the tent

news yea nake to cuff running, I'm like, what just happened? Like, was there a fires and the like? Can I be a douche contrarian for the third time on this show? Sure? Why not? You are? I didn't. I I'm not gonna I'm not trying to act like I'm smarter than everybody in the room. Like I didn't know that, and I didn't know that, but like I wasn't surprised at all. Well that's no, it's it's not a matter of being

surprised you anymore at all. I mean, he's not gonna surprise That's what that's that's the point I'm trying to make it like to this, like David Irving's reputation at this point is like unpredictability and is unreliability a word? Yeah, sure you can't on him, So like it was new information, but I was just like, oh yeah, I mean, okay, well makes sense. Like literally, the last time we talked

to David Irving in June, he was like, I'm good. No, well he would he said, he he did say he was good, but he was also like, I got a lot of stuff going on in my life that y'all don't even know about it, and like it just sounded like that, like exactly, he's just like man like and you know the you know them, the domestic violence allegations, which you know were recanted and the league said he's not gonna face punishment, but he was like, he's like,

that's the least, that's the smallest problem in my life. And I was like, if that's the smallest problem in your life, you got some stuff going on, my guy. So again, I'm not surprised. I mean, I was surprised to hear that, but like in the grand scheme of things, I'm just like yeah, okay, that's David Irving at this point. The thing about him is that he's done this before. Obviously, you know, he's been suspended four games. He comes in and it just starts making plays. I mean, he played

eight games last year and got seven sacks. How many linemen in the league are doing that? Literally, like Aaron Donald and not a lot of other people. He doesn't have fifteen sacks. Did he have fifteen sacks last year in sixteen games? Oh no, But I'm like something like that. He's a he's a defensive tackle who can produce sacks like that, and so and so. Yes, it's easy to sit there and everyone does it and go cut him take, you know, and just just let him go. But he

doesn't count as a roster spot. He's he's losing his own money, you know, by by by being suspended. And I think that he'll probably come in in week five. I don't know what he's gonna look like because he's not getting any work out here, but he's gonna come in Week five, maybe he plays, maybe not week six,

he'll probably be making a sack. That's that's what's That's what kind of sucks about it is I see, I'll be curious because this time last year I wrote him off because he was suspended, and he came out and played great when he was available. I can't I get it. I get what you're saying, but like, he's not gonna pray that's gonna be that, it's gonna be different here, it's not gonna do and we solve this offseason. When

he's not with the team. He looks like a defensive tackle, way more like a defensive tackle than what he looked like last year. So he I mean, what what will he look like? But I can I mean, the Cowboys are just gonna look at it like we know what we've already. I think I think those restricted restricted money is guaranteed, but I don't know what happens if you get suspended in the middle of it. But it just

doesn't make sense to cut him. Does it make you think at this point that there is a better shot of him actually being on this team beyond twenty eighteen? The reason why I say that, well, we'll need to tell why I say that is because, um, under these circumstances, it's I think you're hard pressed to assume, no matter what happens, that he could go out and command anything

significant in free agency. Um, if if this becomes an unrestrictive free agent, and knowing how this team operates, if if a guy shows that he really has gone out and done something to h to take care of the issues that he may be dealing with. Let's say, for example, he goes to rehab and he can get himself right, and the Cowboys feel good that he's on the right path. Then if the money then becomes cheap and you feel like he's on the right path, and let's not just

overlook the fact that the guy has talent. When he comes out there and plays, and when he's available to play, he actually has made a significant number of plays for this team. So that all being said, do you think that with this latest issue that maybe if he can get himself right, there's a better chance that he ends up being here than otherwise. I don't. I mean, if he gets himself right, yes, but I think it's maybe

too late for that. It's you don't want a guy that brings those kind of problems and he creates a problem with the group. Within the group your teammates. You know, you want to make sure you're playing next to a guy that you can rely on and that it's bringing something positive, not a guy that keeps falling back, you know, and doing those kinds of things. And he's absolutely sad because I love David Irvan, I love his personality, I love the way he plays, but it's just a waste,

you know, you can't have those kinds of things. And you know, I'm the first person that has said Randy Gregor will not play another snap for the Cowboys. That's just what I've said that. Um, I don't know if I believe that anymore. He's made a lot more strides than I ever thought he would now he's still got a few more hurdles to go. I mean, it's not

like it's definitely gonna happen. Um. But that being said, it's hard for me, I guess just right off David Irving, But I just don't see all those if if if if if if if next year, that's a lot of things. I don't know him see it. For him not to be here, I think it's really big. I think it's a big deal. Yeah, what what's more important than this? Really? I mean, what what is I know, you've got a lot of stuff going on but I mean what just being signed this year was like another chance to me.

You know, he was already suspended last year. Well there, chill, that's the part Bennett had got it, I got you know, it's his mental health and his family, I guess are more important than this. But the fact that the fact that he couldn't get all that together in a timely fashion in order to be a training camp, it's you know, it's it's a troubling continuation of a pattern. Which yeah, no,

Nick's completely right, Like I'm not writing anything off. Just basically the fact that Randy Gregory is in camp at all, yeah, means I'm not writing anything off. But I have a hard time seeing the Cowboys wanting to marry themselves to David Irving for any significant length of time, like if if they want to do another one year deal with him next year and you know, if he plays well

or whatever. Mate, But you know, nothing that has happened so far leads me to believe that this is a guy that you want to like build your defense around, you know what I mean. Yeah, so, looking at the overall look of the defensive tackle position, Malik Collins starts training camp on NFI you got David Irving not here. Those are two guys you would project as your starters at defensive tackle if you were making this assessment back in March. That being sid where do they currently stand

at the defitsive tackle position. This is a huge opportunity for Dayton Jones and Jihad Ward. They already got a lot of opportunities in the spring because they were You're starting the tackles because for the same reasons, they have an awesome chance to showcase themselves and one of them is probably going to be a starter on day one.

I actually was talking with Brian about that yesterday. As you know, there's a lot of debate about whether you play mo Leaque at the three or the one, and what you decide to do with him could probably dictate what you do with your other tackle because Jihad Ward's more of a three technique and Dayton Jones is more of a one right now, so you can kind of play around with that, and it's all I mean, it's a big opportunity for guys like Brian Price, Lewis, Neil

Richard ashe Goodness, who's the other Daniel Ross. I mean, it's you know, no offense to those guys. It's certainly not a who's who of like blue chip talent, but they're going to have a chance to make the team that they might not have had before. And I really think that coney eally is going to factor into that position as well. I just think he will be a better option than Tyrone Crawford to move inside, uh Taco

or any of those guys to move inside. I think you're if it depends on what you get with Gregory, but that's another guy on the outside. Got Tyrone Crawford was slimmed down. Looks really good, you know, regardless of what Madden thinks him, he actually looks good. I mean there's a there's there's some conversation on the internet too that maybe you flop Tyrone back to tackle, like he's gonna need to eat cheeseburgers every day for a month to play tackle the mad and they're gonna have to

call him back. Yeah, like you were right? Did you delete that because I mean, it ain't it ain't happening, which, yeah, no, And I'm cony Eely. My gosh, he's a massive dude. He's a big boy, So I mean, yeah, that's certainly to me, like Jay Ratliffe in that of like something's wrong, like he looks mad. You know, he's good with that. I know he's got bad intentions. It's like that's good. But he's actually he's he's a very nice in person, Unlike Jay Jay was kind. I mean all the time.

It's not like all the time. It was like ten percent of the time when you catch him on a day when he was where he was in a good mood. That one year when he was going for a contract, he was really nice. Was that whole Like that year you can catch caught him a lot of times he

was in a really good move. He engaged ESPN NFL Live where you know, we're going to the Valley Ranch with Jay Ratliff, and he'd been doing an interview and yeah, yeah, I'm not straight up afraid of a lot of cowboys like I was afraid of Jay Ratliffe, Like I never met to meet your so underwoods. No I did not, I didn't meet him. Yeah, there's there's a little bit to be afraid of this spellman. Yeah, allan, Yeah, we've had we've had good We've had good luck in my

time here. Like for the vast majority of these guys are super nice dudes, and even like Orlando Scandrick was meaning like a fun way, like you know, kind of needling. You know, like Jay Ratliffe just straight up scared the crap out of him. And you know what, he scared offensive linemen too, because he was undersized player that they put at the one in the three four defense who

just made four Pro Bowls. Up. Keep that guy, no, hey, you know he always reminded me of like I mean, when you think of like in our generation of like you know, eighties and nineties, who's the greatest rebounder that you can remember in the NBA. Rodman was six to eight and kind of skinny. Yeah, but crazy, just crazy, like sometimes the crazy that's what does He's good at times. I mean, ron oar Test was pretty good. He was crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, No, we need yeah, who's crazy? Crazy?

Got some crazies out here. So there's one one. I just I just see Rico. That's the first guy, number number fifty over there. It's very good at being crazy within the lines of the football field everywhere else. All right, Listen, this this is one thing I think that that I think I'm most concerned about when you talk about the

defensive tackle position. Um, I think what made DeMarcus Lawrence continue to have success throughout the year last year was that there were other guys at different moments that would get some pressure, so that it just at least kind of balanced things out a little bit. I'm a little bit concerned if you don't have some of these guys

defensive tackle, MALIEK. Collins, David Irving, I'm a little bit concerned where that pressure is going to come from on that defensive line that's not taken so that teams, Oh, well, we're gonna go finish your thought or I'm gonna talk about hold on before we get at the point of my question. Let's get an update though on the leak. Yeah,

I gonna let's not bury MALIEK. Collins, Like, for as far as I understand it, he will be practicing at some point during camp, right, So it's coming back that that, and and he's also proven as a rookie that he could do that come off the same pretty much the same type of injury and still be productive. I know you have a theory and you're not wrong that when you guys miss training camp, they're really not the same. He was one of those exceptions for the rule. Let's

see if he can do it again. I still think he needs to be playing at the three. I agree that's where he's a better play. How many injuries can you have of the same kind and comes four? Oh yeah. To the point of what you were saying, Nick, though, if if you don't have David Irving, then maybe he is the option that you push back to three because he may be your best penetrating type defensive tackle that's gonna be on somebody to prove themselves as a capable one.

Whether it's daytoned, I think it's I think he was playing. He was playing, in my opinion, really really well when he got hurt last year, and I don't think he got as much credit, which out of one technique you don't need, you don't necessarily get all that credit. But I thought he was a guy that could get a little pressure at times, he could collapse the pocket at times, and I thought he held up pretty good, and you know, and on the on the line to make sure they

weren't just getting blasted. These huge holes weren't happening when he was out there. When did they get Daytone Jones last year. Last Yeah, during the season. Man, this could be a Mark Colombo. Guy's been around a little bit. Get him late and he comes in, give him the whole off season. Guy has talent, he fits. I mean, he is the quintessential Will McClay edition. Like he was a high draft pick. Didn't work out where he was I think it was Green Bay maybe, yeah, make that up.

I don't remember, but Brian Price was that way. No, but but Dayton Jones was either a first or second round pick. Like, I mean, he was a talent and big, you know, put me on a spot. I was sorry, he's probably in his third year, right, No, I think he's this was in Was this in the era of the Draft Show when you won the Draft Show? No, it was not. Okay, Uh, you've only been here at Green Bay twenty sixth overall pick with Green Bay. So

I was pretty much right. I was pretty much right. Um, And so I mean, like I said it, Will McClay loves to get those type of guys. Jehad Ward was another one. They loved him at the Senior Bowl. They traded for him. Probably got picked too high with Oakland. He was forty fourth overall. I think their grade was like third or fourth round. Uh. So they liked these

guys and they're they're talented players. Uh and we've seen this work out really well at times before I know, I mean he was speaking of crazy, but they got a pretty good season out of Rolando McClean when they brought him in in a similar circumstance. Um, I know they've done it with somebody else, but I'm drawing a blank right now. Jonathan Cooper. I mean, you know it didn't get to a Pro Bowl, but top ten pick who started and and acquitted himself pretty well on the

defensive line. Other guy that they did that with, Leonard Davis, Yeah, top pick that came out. I think he got here and played a lot better than he'd be that that was a parcels um theory that he actually got from. I think Tom Landry, Well, it might have been both. I mean, I don't know, but I'm just saying at some point somebody thought this guy, come, no, you know who that was. I think it was Al Davis did he said he got that from. But anyway, go ahead.

It's it's something that they they love doing that, Like you got a lot of talent. It didn't work out where you were, come try it out here. It has worked out really well at times. It definitely hasn't always worked out. There have been some guys that they cut um, but hey, yeah, like they're gonna have the opportunity because the preferred starters are not capable of playing right now, so it's on them to Jones on four teams last season. Yeah,

that Vikings, Vikings, Lions, Niners, and Cowboys. Everybody's trying to find. Everybody's trying to find what's actually impressive what he was. If you've got the talent that gets you drafted in the first round, you're gonna get opportunities in cases. I always say this in the NBA. These guys, he didn't even know who that is. Ron Mercer him drafted. He was in Kentucky, like fifth or sixth overall pick. I played only fourteen teams because everybody kind of thinks, you know,

we can fix this guy. Clifton Gethers. He's about six eight. It's like, look the defensive end and everybody had him for a little bit and it's just like I've got to get this guy. Our coaches will fix him. Yeah, I will say this about Dayton Jones, he's here. All those other teams he wasn't with him in the offseason. Offseason Rod Marinelli's he's considered to be one of the

best defensive line coaches. Work your magic. This is a guy that has talent, he's got experience, he's got size, he's got what you're looking forward to her now, he's got some stability and more than anything, he's got an opportunity. So all right, we appreciate you guys joining us. We will be back tomorrow. We'll be talking more about what's going to happen out here today. The Cowboys have their

first practice this afternoon. It will be at three forty five Pacific time, so it make sure you check us out tomorrow. Till then. For Nick Even, Dave helm and Amber Garcia, I'm Derek Eagleton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Ratingall. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.