Cowboys Break: What's the Deal?

The Break. We are live from s WBC Mortgage Studios at the start, and we got a lot of things we're gonna get into today. We're gonna talk a lot about Combine. Last week. All three of my co hosts were there, and we'll be talking some about the time they spent with Jerry, some of the time they spent an indie there with Mike McCartney, and then some general observations about the combine, different players that are there, just different things they saw. So we're gonna catch you guys

up on all those things. How does everybody feel today? I feel wonderful. Derek. It's nice to see you. It's nice to talk to you and do the show with you and just thrilled to be here. I know you guys have been been doing things like making big moves. I've been back here at the office the whole time, and so I've missed you guys, but I'm glad to have you back on the air, and I want to

jump right in. Let's get started. I've got seven different topics. Actually, Nick, you wrote an article coming out of the combine that listed ten things that came from Jerry's talk that you thought were worth mentioning great observations. I took seven of those things and throw them out here, and I'm just gonna throw out the observation, and then I want you guys to just kind of jump in and talk about it, because I thought that a lot of the things that

Jerry talked about created some interesting discussion points. So let's start first with let's talk on the CBA. Jerry basically said he voted for the CBA, and in voting for the CBA, he understood that the benefits were more about the NFL, the long term interest of the NFL, and we're not necessarily about the short term interest of the Cowboys. Explain that that statement, and let's talk a little bit

about him. Well, I'd rather be careful with that. I think that there's a lot of things going on there. I mean, Jerry got put into the Hall of Fame, so you know, he's he's a patriot, you know. I mean, he's big for the league, and this is a league deal. It's not just for the Cowboys. He's trying to let everybody know that this is big for the NFL. This is very important for all the players, not just the Cowboys. There's parts that don't really work for the Cowboys because

of the transition. Tag will be gone and he can't get Amari Cooper and dak to do that. But I also think it's very important for Jerry to establish that he is when he's in there voting, he's voting for the NFL, not just for the Cowboys. I think it's a it's a tough bat once there. I think I think he was trying to send a message there. Yeah, I think he was trying to It was a it was a convincing sales pitch and that I mean that

doesn't mean it wasn't true. But you know, everybody who follows the NFL on any kind of close level knows that Jerry is a very powerful and meaningful member of the community, and you know, when he endorses the CBA, it's kind of like, oh okay, like the most powerful owner in the league wants the CBA to go through. What else is new? And I think part of that was he's sitting there saying, look, this isn't this isn't just about what favors me like this, this deal is

going to hurt us on some points as well. I still think it's in the best interest in the league as a whole, and I think he wanted to get that message across. It's like, I'm not voting completely in my own self interest. This deal will grow the money available to the league and to the players for that matter. He made a huge point. I actually thought it was

it was really telling. He basically had a script. He had a sheet of paper with the salaries of his players and not you know, not the DeMarcus Lawrences of the world, but the guys on their rookie deals. He's saying, under this CBA, Layton vander esh would be making this much more money in year three of his deal than he is right now. And he went down the line

of this guy would be doing this. This guy would be doing this, and I think he's trying to sell people on the idea that this isn't just good for the league, it's good for the everyman player, and it's not just good for me Jerry Jones, and I mean I think, you know, we get on the bus with him every year at the combine and he talks for a while. He was asked one question about the CBA, and he talked for about thirty five minutes uninterrupted. So he had a lot of stuff he wanted to say

about it, for sure. Sure, And also the answers were kind of scripted because he had some notes, which is I think maybe unusual for the bus. Very the questions were scripted as well, so there were some there were some questions that were asked to be asked. I think he al saw that morbid lying too. I was saying like, this is probably my last contract, which could be right, or it was just something that it was kind of

interesting to hear. It's a little dark. It makes it awkward for me when I hear, especially when I hear a person referring to themselves in that way, like it does seem a little bit off, but a CBA last ten years, So I get it's a long time for him to be in the room really being negotiating. He let Steven do all that. Yeah, he's hanging out, but as we all know, like if you've spent any time around Jerry, it's hard to think of a day when he won't be in the room. Like he's just as

as old as he is. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm just saying for his age, like he's still very sharp man, still very much involved in a lot of things. It's hard to imagine that

coming to an end, you know what I'm saying. That just seems weird, seem sure, But I do want to say this, just looking at all of this, I think that's the interesting part for me about the whole CBA is we've seen a lot of different um big players I'm talking about the faces of the league come out and say things that that kind of basically pointed to the fact that they didn't necessarily believe this was the

best deal for the league. But when you start thinking about all those other players, and I think that's kind of the point of this CBA. Maybe the point that Jerry was trying to make is this deal is not so much about those players as much as it is those players that have that average three to five year career and then making a lot more money over the course of their career. It's I mean, I was gonna

say it's no different than politics. It is different than that, But I mean, you know, when when you have different administrations come in some more you know, bigger for a middle class than it is for higher class. That's kind of what this seems to be. Is this the core players, and a lot of those people are getting votes as well. So it's really interesting to see who your player rep is. If Russell Wilson and J. J. Watt are your player rep,

then that's one thing. But if Nate Soldiers your player rep and he kind of understands what it's good for, I think I think that's what's kind of the different dynamic here. I would hope, and I agree with you, but I would hope. You know, even I don't even is Russell Wilson their player up and see, but even I would hope he's talking to the guys in his locker room like you're not just voting for you, You're

voting for the other fifty guys that are there. You are, But at the same time, we know how this goes, and you mentioned politics, it's the same thing from this respect.

I mean, it's going to still be a situation where whoever is that rep they're still when they're talking to the players in the locker room, they're certainly giving their opinions, and so whatever whatever their lean is on this, they're probably going to have a little bit, not even a little bit, They're probably going to have a bias in how they present it to their to their players, and they're probably going to tell them the information and highlight

the information that they think is most important and probably skirt over the information they think it's a little less important, although they it may be very important to those players. So either way, the point is they got to a seventeen fourteen I think was the breakdown. Yes, to know it was seventeen thirteen and one and one at yeah, And so it's going to the full body, and at this point the full body will have an opportunity to be able to vote on it, and we'll see what happened.

They say they'll probably take a couple of weeks, but it looks like at least there's going to be a vote here in the next couple of weeks, and just from my own personal point of view, I hope it gets done because I just don't like labor unrest. It just makes things tough for Byron Jones. So what happens if very interesting? Right? What happens if this goes past March eighteenth and Byron Jones is not with the Cowboys on March nineteenth, Well, I'm assuming they make a vote

really quickly as to replace him. One. I'm pretty I guess Crawford. I believe that you have there's like a you know, an alternate kind of like hockey has an alternate captain if your captain doesn't play right. You see, that problem is so many guys free agent, like that guy might also be a free agent. Who knows. I bet you there's a guy under contract who would assume that.

I'm guessing Zach Martin, Travis Frederick, Tyron Crawford. UM, yeah, it's it's interesting, man, because and there's there's so many levels to it, Like, you know, the owners clearly seem like they're appealing to the everyman players. You know, you can grow your salary by fifty percent and they're going to relax substance abuse testing, and I mean, guys, it will be far easier to smoke weed and play in the NFL than it would have been under the old deal.

You're also going to have a seventeen game season. You're also you know, from the sounds of it, it it sounds like the owners are going to have a lot more power in the holdout arena. Like you know, basically it won't be able to happen, which is something that would give me pause if I was a bigger name player. But I'm curious to see, you know. I thought I read that they were going to try to vote on it this week, but it doesn't seem like it's moving

in that direction right now. But if I'm the Cowboys, I'm like sitting here like, hey, do I have one tag or two? And we get this thing decided right now, so I know what I'm working with on March eighteenth. Ye, all right, let's go out to the next topic. This one was I mean, Jerry basically said, I think we all know which is Dak's going to be here. It's really just a matter of them getting the deal done.

What are your thoughts on where that all stands and after talking to him, do you have any more insight as to where you think this is all going or what maybe to hold up in the whole situation. I think the CBA it might be some of the hold up there, but I mean it's all the same. It's

just he just says it in a different way. I mean sometimes they say, well, he's a franchise quarterback that can get the job done, or I mean this time he says, he's it's no different than my son, Like he's my son's not going anywhere, so figure it out. That's kind of basically what he said. He called Dak like his like his son. I mean, like I've already referred to you like that. I mean, it just happens as part of it now. Really, I think the CBA

is one at this point. I'm not saying, you know, they might not be close they you know, it's not like they're ready to put the name on the paper, But I don't think they want to decide anything until they see what they're working with. Again, not only how many tags do you have? But if the projections that we're reading are true, the salary cap could literally balloon. Like they're talking about a four hundred million dollars salary cap within the next three years? How much it was

it three or seven? Wait, I mean over the course of the deal, it'll get even bigger. But like there are some people projecting that the cap could jump by as much as like fifty percent in the next three or four years, which typically it jumps, you know, ten percent per year. You could see some massive jumps. So if you're about to sign a quarterback to a huge deal, don't you kind of want to have an idea of what your salary cap growth will look like over the

years of the deal, Because I know I would. And that's actually an interesting point because I saw this morning there was a report coming from I can't remember the guy's name, was a guy from ESPN, but he staid, according to some of his sources in the in Das camp, they were actually pushing for a much shorter term. A

three year deal was what he threw out there. And when you talk about it from the standpoint of what you're saying, that would make a ton of sense for them to say, hey, hey, let's shorten the term on this deal, because we could be looking up four years from now, and and because of the salary cap. But I could be pushing fifty easy, right, Like that's the part that makes us a little difficult. And for the Cowboys, they may be looking like, hey, yo, hey, we want stability,

like it's our quarterback position. We want to be able to have a longer term deal. And by the way, when you're dealing with that much money, we want to be able to strapolate that signing bonus over a larger period of time so it hits lets of our cap.

There's a lot of things. So so really the hold up could also be a part of that too, where you're talking about, you know, Dak side pushing for shorter term cowboys look pushing for a longer term if they're if they're also looking if guaranteed money is not the big deal there because and I think it has been. Guaranteed money has been has been one of the things that has you know, you know, separated all of these contracts.

But it needs to be average per year if if they're only going to go for the three year deal. But I don't think that's a bad move for the Cowboys because there's there's some people that wonder if if Dak is even is he really the long term future, I mean of the team. I mean he's been he's been really good at times. But I mean I think three year deal might be good for the Cowboys too.

Just like his agent says, well, we want to get a part of that fifty million, the Cowboys could say, well, we think he's pretty good, but what if he's not. You know, I don't think it's a terrible move. I don't at all. I mean I love short deals honestly, Like this whole That's how you know, the Cowboys didn't maximize finding Dak as well as they could have because they were stuck paying Tony Romo on a six year deal. They had to pay two years worth of insane cap

hits that they got no play out of. So the short of the deal, I'm like, I love that because it's just less of a commitment on your salary cap three years, one hundred just I would, honestly, I would be I would be all in on that. Let me ask you this, would you be willing to guarantee all of that? Yes? For a guy that never gets hurt? I'm sure. Knock on wood. I mean, yeah, there's risk involved in these types of things, but it is what

it is. But that's that's you know what, that's that's why you that's the guaranteed money that they want, right, that's the base. I mean, that's kind of the ballpark of what they're wanting. Right, we just solved this thing for them. Somebody run upstairs one on two, send a text one two, one out two. You want to go to one O two thirty four? Yeah that's thirty four, right. I can't do math, but yeah, it sounds about right. One or two divide about three I think is thirty four.

I don't know, but some somewhere in that range on a three year deal with most of it, if not all, of a guarantee. I just up. I it's it really like. It gives me. It gives me anxiety to think about. And obviously I don't have any control over the situation. But so it's Wednesday. The franchise tag deadline is eight days away. Um, the league year starts six days after that. So the league years two weeks from today might do am I right on that. Today's the fourth Yeah, so

you got two weeks till the new league year. You got eight days until you have to use the tag. You can't use it anymore after next Thursday and the CBA is not a proved Dak and amar are sitting there. You don't know right now if you can tag them both or just one. It stresses me out just talking. What I don't know is what the rules. I've heard different things. What the rule is if you give Amari the transition tag before the CBA has been approved, and

then what happens to me? You have to take one away, as I understand it, if a new CBA is agreed to, the other tag just disappears, and all of a sudden that guy becomes an immediate free agent. I mean, that's a problem. If the league year has started, Yeah, that's

a problem. Which that's well, Although now I'm talking out of my depth, but I believe if the new league year starts before a CBA is approved, then you would go through this final year on the old CBA like you can't enact a CBA once a new league gear has started, right you're sure about that? No, that goes back to the problem of how much do you pay DA and leave? You know, you don't give him new contracts and he just keep the franchise tag, But then does he hold out, does he not go to training him?

What happens there? There's so many reasons why they should get Dack done right, they're just they just got to do it because of give Amari what he and Amari needs the franchise tag. I think for everybody's comfort level of who this guy is and what he's done. He needs the franchise tag because one more year to show because you know, it's scary because contract years usually get give people their best year. And you know, if he's

got all this money, I don't, I don't know. I mean, is he is he gonna be on the field on fourth and eight in the biggest game of the season because that was a contract year. Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying, And I know people are scared in this building. They're scared to give him that much money because they don't really know what he's thinking. Sometimes. See I don't I could I could find The flip side of that, though,

is because he's clearly not purely motivated by money. Like he said it eighty five times in the build up to last season. He's like, that'll take care of itself. He's like, I'm making more than enough. On the fifth year of my deal. Like he said that, how often do you hear that from football players? Where he's like, they're paying me thirteen million, that's plenty. I'm not worried about it. Nobody's ever said that. Uh. And and you know, he had a few bad, really bad moments fourth and

eight against the Eagles. You know, not to knock the guy for being hurt, but the Jets game was bizarre. Ye for him to do that stuff during a contract at least, I'm just like, you know, like, well, Amari's a Mari regardless. You know, he's not putting on a front because he wants more money. And by the way, this these are the kinds of things that people said about him in Oakland, Like, these are the kinds of things that have haunted him, if you want to call

it that, since he's been in the NFL. So I don't know that that's going to necessarily change. He's not going to turn around tomorrow and become des mentality, right, that's just not I can't I can't imagine was here and helped him. We'll get to that go ahead. I can't imagine him becoming a vastly different person because he got a second contract. I agree with it, M but

I do. If I could plan this thing out like perfectly, just get a deal done with Dak by next Thursday at whatever time, probably three that's usually the deadline, and then tag Amary. That shouldn't be hard. We already told them how to like just it's so simple. They should have already gotten three text message from all three of you upstairs saying, oh, yeah, the break is it. We should go ahead and do this deal. Here's the framework, Stephen, do you go through dolivered? Is that bad? I don't know,

but it was locked. It's it's absolutely fascinating to think what happens if something isn't agreed to by Thursday, because Dak will be tagged. Ya, we've Jerry Jones. The direct quote was he will I will not not have his rights for a single minute. And there's no doubt about who will be tagged if it comes to it. But if you tag Dak and I mean so you could tag them both next Thursday. But then if a CBA is agreed to, Amari Cooper said it for free agency,

and that's scary, and I'm sure it doesn't. It might say this than the rules, can you can you move one tag to the other. Yeah. See, that's what I don't know either. If you should get a deal done with Dad, I think I don't. Well, but if you do that, do you risk the possibility of losing him? Well theoretically yes. I'm just saying, by that time you figure out which deal, can we get a deal done with quicker Marie or I will say this, This thought

occurred to me too. And you know, I'm I'm always the guy that's like, well, they're they're gone in free agency and Amari Cooper is a fantastic player, and you would think somebody would offer him so much money that he would never come back. But we just spend a couple of minutes talking about how he's a different cat. So and he's mentioned many times how much he loves

Dallas and he wants to be here. He could I could absolutely foresee him and hating free agency and just being like, no, I'm cool with with Like, me and Dallas are gonna work something out, Like that's not crazy, all right, So we're gonna take our first break when we come back, we got a lot more to hit. It hit. We're gonna talk about Jason Witten as Bryant Robert Quinn, Byron Jones, and Layton Vanderish. Jerry has some interesting thoughts there. We'll do that. Woman, come right back.

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week with the media. There were so many little nuggets that he dropped in that we're going through and we're gonna talk about all those different nuggets. Let's start now with the conversation he had about Jason Witten. Jerry says he wants him back, he thinks he can still play, but he wants him at a different role. Talking about what would you think that means, and if you think that's something that Jason Witten would accommodate, it sounds like he's just, you know, he's gonna be He's not going

to be a starter. That's what it seems like. I mean, you have to read between the lines there, but you know, it just it's not really adding up. Ken wish people would just say it, but they're not. I mean McCarthy didn't say it, and he didn't. Jerry just said, we think, you know, I still think he can play, and I don't want to him to play anywhere else, and Jason said he wants to play. So it was like, well,

credit like it was great. Like Nick followed the script right from the break, like literally, Jerry said, I think he can still play. He wants to play, and it would be a shame if he played for anybody else. And Nick was like, well, you own the team, so say that he was. He was like, well, if all of that stuff is true, then why isn't he back? I said, you want him back? Jason wants to beat back. What's the hold up? Did you have Jason speed? Uh?

Now I'm talking Before that, Jason was on speaker phone in his pocket and its like and then he said McCarthy's name, but he didn't really say that he was the hold up. He basically said, Jason is the hold up. Jason has to realize he has to accept this role. That's so essentially he has to accept the pot He has to accept the role of being a backup and not a starter. Yeah, that's the first time in sixteen years. Because that's the question, do you think Jason will accept

that kind of role? See, no, I think I think the problem. I don't know if this is a problem. Yeah, I guess it is because you kind of you know, self awareness is always a problem in anything in life, and I think that you know, Jason could probably tell the listen, I'll sign this, but after the end of training camp, if I'm not better than Blake Jarwin or whoever you know, you should you should play the best guy.

And even if it's clear to everyone in the world that Blake Jarwin is better, it won't be to Jason and that, you know, I think it was to Antonio Gates. Gates knew that this guy's better, Henry's better. I'll just kind of do my thing whatever, and Gates I asks, what's fine with that? I don't think Whitten will be fine with that, and I don't think he'll see it

the same way. But the only thing I wonder if he would is he's made it quite clear that whenever he has done playing, he wants to get into coaching. So I'm wondering if this is kind of an entryway into being. I mean, he already is like a mentor in the role model and a leader in that locker room and to the tight ends and other positions. But I wonder if he could see this as like this could be a learning opportunity for me about getting ready

to kind of being. And I'm not one hundred percent sure the door has been closed on him coaching this year. I don't think that's off the table yet. I still think they're just evaluating everything. It wouldn't surprise me. Well, I would surprise me, but it's not gonna be a shock if he is on the coaching staff this year. Well, some of the things I've heard you and I've had some talks about, some talks some other people who are close to Jason, it doesn't seem to me like he's

looking for learning opportunities to become a coach. Like it looks like to me when he's going to be a coach, he wants to go in and be a coach like and we're talking about it, and I don't want to be a you know, an offensive assistant like he wants to be. You're saying when he goes to Disney World, he gets the fast path. That's exactly right. That's my expectation with what he wants. Yeah, based upon the conversations I've had with different people. So you know, again, I

don't know that. I don't know that this worked. Just based on everything you guys are saying and what you thought you were hearing from Jerry, I don't know if this works. I've never seen Jason in a situation where he was willing to do that, where he was willing to take a lesser than role, like he was willing

to not be the guy. And so if if that's what the expectation is going in like they haven't even played a down in the OTAs if that's his if that's the expectation going and you're going to be a backup, I don't know that he'd be willing to sign up for that. I mean, we'll see, but I don't know that he'd be willing to sign Maybe they sign him for another one year and it's you battle through training camp. But then again, if he's not the starter, I don't

I don't know what the repercussions of that are. I

just don't see the point at all. And I've I think I said this last time we were all here, is like we're having a five minute conversation about a guy who would be the backup tight end, Like even we'd get into the weeds with cowboys and even we don't do that, ye, Like we've never spent more than like thirty seconds at a time talking about Dalton Schultz, so or should we or would win and so he's been on the field case, and so I just if if this is what it's going to be, and he's

not going to come back to be the starter, which it does not appear to be the case, Nor do I think it should be just just flip the page. That's my personal that's easy to say. But there's a mural over there, and that part of the building man sits up there. It's I don't know, maybe about not thy high. I just don't you know. That's that's why this whole discussion is even being had. But and and that is also why you know, when you say, flip

the page, whose book is it? Is it Jerry's book or is this McCarthy's book, you know, because I think that I think there's some I think there's something there that that, you know, could he be detrimental to the team to what the message that they're trying to do? You know, does he really want to clean slighter? Do you want a guy in here that's kind of kind of wanted your job? You know, he wanted to be

the head coach of the Cowboys. So I think those were things McCarthy has to kind of factor into all this. I'm not saying Jason would be bad. I mean, I think he's great. I don't think he'd be bad for the locker room or anything like that. But I think if you're trying to send a message in your own message, maybe you want a bunch of fresh voices and not

a guy that's been here. That's why I could see why McCarthy would say I don't want one of the greatest tight ends to ever play the game, outside of the fact that he just may think honestly, like there's a better tight end there. That may be the truth. Here's another part of this factor too, when you look at the Packers teams. He's done a lot of different things so when he was with the Packers, but a lot of those tight ends were really athletic. They were

athletic type guys. And I think he looks at it like I don't need that complete tight end because I got a fullback that plays a lot more so, you know, he doesn't have a finesse fullback like the Cowboys have a finesse Ola Wally type fullback. So that might be your difference there is that I want. I want athletic tight ends, and I want, really if I'm need someone to wham the nose, it'll be a fullback. Yeah, I wonder too, Wit and said it his award ceremony. They'll

talk about this after the combine. Well it's after the combine. Maybe they'll wait and see what they can accomplish beforehand, you know, free agency, trying something in free agency, maybe look at the draft and if the positions not any better in late April, maybe you give him a call. Because there's no rush for Jason whatsoever. You think he would play somewhere else if they don't come to an agreement.

I think Jason's one of those guys that loves football, and so I don't think he would ever want to necessarily do it. But I think if his hand was forced where it's like either you take this or nothing, and he felt like that wasn't the right move for him. And by the way, there was another team where they were like, you know, we'll bring you in and we'll let you let you be that starting guy. You know, we think we could value your experience, and our tight

end position doesn't have much there. I think Jason would consider, especially if it's a team that has a shot at winning a championship, because remember, remember you only get Once your career is done, you can't go back and get a championship. You can have all the accolades in the world, but you'll be that guy that when all the other Hall of Famers are there together and they all have on their rings, you'll be the guy with only your wedding band on. So I'm just saying, like that matters

to guys. I think it matters a lot to those those caliber football players. Gotta be a meaningful role. Doesn't necessarily have to be the starter, but it's got to be a meaningful role, and it's got to be a team that's got a chance to do something, a real chance.

How long is that list? What's meaningful to you? Then if he's not starting, like like, you know, being on the field for at least thirty percent of the snaps, having a chance to catch play in the red zone, yeah, having a chance to catch twenty to forty balls, have an opportunity to score some touchdowns, contribute to wins. I mean, yeah, I think you would take a backup role with Kansas City or San Francisco. Yes, but do they want like

they get that, I get that. I'm just saying, do you think that winning a championship is that important to him? Where he would say, I'll take a team like Kansas City where I feel like they can be in the championship every game every year, and I know they got to solidify tight in, but I can be his backup and I feel like it'll get me a champion. See.

That's kind of my point though, is yes, I do think he would take that, but I don't think that role exists on the Kansas City Chiefs because he's Kelsey's not coming off the field in the red zone for Jason Witten, and neither's George Kittle. So again, gotta be a meaningful role. I don't see that in San Francisco or Kansas City. Gotta be a team that could win.

You know, jeez, this is I shouldn't even say this out loud, But like New England, if like if New England wanted him to go in there and be one of their five tight ends, assuming Tom Brady's still there, I think he probably go for that. Yeah, but I just don't think the list is very long, and people are gonna say the Giants all day long. Are they contenders? First of all, how much is he gonna get on the field behind Evan Ingram and also are they going

to be any good? So I just think you're probably talking about two or three teams Max where he would be interested in pursuing that opportunity. All right, let's go on to the next topic, Dez Bryant. Jarry says that he has not dismissed the possibility of bringing back this as he thinks about it often in the shower. And so, what do you think you think Dez is a possibility to show back up with the Dallas Cowboys. I do. I think, at least through camp. I think you give

him a shot. No, no, no, no, that wasn't my question. Oh on the roster, No no, no. My question is do you think he has a real shot of the Cowboys bringing him back? That's what she's saying. She says he thinks he should come back now a chance. I think he has a chance. I think they get him a workout, and I think you see if he still

has it. I think some of that too, is kind of the combination of Jason Winn and going back to a Mari of if they sign a Mari and they want him are to be their guy, and they're still liking what they're seeing for Michael gallup in the growth that he's making. What kind of role is Dez going to have and is he going to be okay with that role? Of they get a Mari and a maris that go to guy or I think it'll depend on that.

But I mean, he seems to be in shape. He's very adamant about wanting to get back in the league, wanting to play for the Cowboys. I don't see why you wouldn't at least bring him in for a workout and see what he can do. He's right here, he's at the Start working out right in the facility next door. Yeah, you want to jump on this first, I don't. I just okay, I'll do it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't cutting off go ahead. First of all.

I want to stand up for the boss real quick, because the shower comment it's classic Jerry, and of course it wentn't but it wasn't meant like that, right. I do all of my deepest thinking and problem solving in the shower, Like that's where I try to tackle some the stresses of my life. So I understand what Jerry meant there, and I don't think it was meant in any kind of weird way. A right, I don't think.

I don't think. I think everybody knows that. I think it's just fun when we go to break I have a theory on that that I think people need to be careful when they when they start saying that kind of stuff and they kind of insinuating that that that he was meaning something anything else than what it was. I mean, like he said, that's when you're you're thinking, yeah. Honestly, I don't think anybody was seriously do it's just fun, Like,

it's just fun classic, it's just classical. It would be on the cocktail Napkins at his Hall of Fame already is because he said, Troy Aitman one of those guys that looks good in the shower right now, that's probably worse than it is. I would think so, yeah, I would think, so he's the best. Do you want back on the team? It's not about what I want. Here's what we're gonna get to that question. The question is do you think the Cowboys will have him back? I

have a couple of thoughts. Jerry hasn't dismissed it, and I mean it starts with Jerry, so if he wants it, he can make it happen. But I think the people that are closer to the minutia of these things are like, they have taken a look at this and they're like, I don't think so. But then also, where is really the fit for this right now? And we don't know

for sure what's going to happen with Amari. It sounds like it sounds for all the world like they want Randall cop back, but that's not written in stone either, But like, where is it after you got those three? There's eight million good wide receivers in this draft. I just don't see the use for a thirty two year old receiver coming off and achilles injury who's not going to play special teams. And by the way, we've talked about how much more of a priority they want to

make that this year. That was their problem. Last year they had about eight guys veterans who have highly specified roles who don't play special teams. So what you're telling me is like the special teams suffer. They were awful, and everybody wanted to be wondering why special teams so bad? But that's part of it. I mean, that's part of it, right, a lot of guys that weren't on special And again, and I love Dez so much. He was He was probably my favorite player to cover during the time that

he was here. Really absolutely you never knew what he was gonna say, and he would like he was very he was friendly and electric and you just it felt fun being around him all the time. And he also especially a training camp, he made practice fun. He did, you know, he made it like this is kind of boring, it won't be as practice and playing well and all that. He was like, oh, Michael Irvin. Then what you heard of Michael Irvin and what he was to them in

the nineties when it came to practice time. And I never bought the theory that he was like this crazy distraction. I like, we've covered that, we've beaten it into the ground more times than we can. But it doesn't sound like a super big positive to me to have the most visible fourth receiver in the NFL. I just like

a guy, you know, he's active on Twitter. He is capable of, you know, commanding the news cycle with what he says, and that just seems a little wild to me for a guy who you're hoping is going to play like eight to twelve snaps a game and just

have a very limited role in your offense. I can't see how anybody and you didn't do that, But anybody that would say, on one hand, I don't think they need to bring back Witten, but then they would bring back des I just feel like it's it's very similar to declining players, you know that are now not going to be the forefront of things, And is there a chance that because they're so used to a certain role that they may not be great accepting a different role,

and which I mean de Dez came out and said, he's like, all I want is like the role that Witten had is you know, I'll take a backseat. I can come in in the red zone. I can do this,

I can do that. I get that, But like in the end, it's a young man's game, Like why wouldn't I just go draft Devin DuVernay, a badass who runs a four three nine out of Texas Kim take he can be my slot guy, slash jet sweep, slash, gadget slash or whatever, and I'm paying him six hundred thousand a year for four years as opposed to whatever one year vet sweetheart deal I gotta do with Dez. I just it just doesn't seem like pragmatic roster building to me.

People love that storyline already with McCarthy about the catch no Catch game when he was still with the Packers. Can you imagine the question if they brought death back, which and that kind of goes to my point is like, how many fourth receivers in the league would have an eighty person press gaggle at their locker the first day they were available? Like yeah, and it's not like Dez. It wouldn't not like this like malevolent, like toxic situation. But it's just like, for lack of a better word,

it's like a distraction you don't need. You're just like, why, like your fourth receiver should not be like the second most famous person on your team. That's that's strange to me. So take me back a little bit and the fit for the sake of the listeners, take me back to when the Cowboys made the decision to let him go. What was the reason why they decided? What do you guys think were the major reasons why they let him

go when they did? And let's put in that as a caveat that they let him go when they really didn't have a replacement option, Like they went into that next year saying we're gonna do a by committee and we're not gonna have really a number one guy, Like we're just gonna have guys. We're gonna have some guys. So for them to be willing to say we're gonna move away from him for this other just kind of blob Why would they do that? Dak Prescott, they wanted things to be Dak friendly and they need Dak is

a guy that he's not. He's not the most accurate down the field passer. We know that he's really good at a lot of things, but he needs a guy that can run routes. Okay, and amarn Cooper can run route I mean, and Cobb can run They run routes, and Gallup is getting there too. He's really good at it. That's never been a strong thing for for Dez, and so I think there was too many times that you

were trying to force the ball. And when he was younger twenty five, six, twenty seven, he could just out Dez you I'm just gonna go up and catch the ball because I'm better than you, he didn't do that anymore. Now you need to be a route runner. It's working for Larry Fitzgerald because he can run a route and he can still do that, and Jason Witten sort of

got by doing it as well. So now you just have this freelancer guy that's the climbing and he's also pouting when he catches one ball for nine yards and a loss. It's not Dak friendly, and I think that's why they moved on. So that being said, and the eight million they say, I'm gonna say that's also bloated contract, diminishing returns a game that relies mainly on athleticism more

so than being a technician. And then on top, like all the stuff that made him charming when he was in All Pro becomes problematic, Like you skipped your MRI because you were afraid of what I would say, you're late for meetings this like we kind of like we're worrying about you more than we want to. Like it's

charming when you're catching sixteen touchdowns. It's not charming when you're catching six and catching one pass for nine yards and stressing out the quarterback and all that type of stuff. And I also feel like there were times where, you know,

games where he didn't have a lot of catches. One game and there are a lot of even you know, targets, and then he would say something and then the next game, surprisingly deck with those fourteen balls to him, but he only caught like five, and you know, it was forcing it, just because I think there was times that just felt like he had to get him the ball. Whether he

said that it or not, that would happen. So I just thought, you know, overall, you know, and the Cowboys made him too, because they thought that their offense would be fine without a lead receiver and it wasn't. And they fixed it but with Cooper, but they did. It was Smigo going on there over We don't we don't need a guy like this. It's always interesting to me that he's been so open about wanting to come back

to the Cowboys after like a breakup like that. Well, but also we've documentaries on thirty for thirty on guys you know, like, well he might need money. I don't want to complete like we don't know, and I don't know. I think guys get out sometimes and they realize you talked about it earlier about self awareness, you think everybody will want me, so go ahead and release me. I'll

be fine. And then you get out there and you're like, huh, this market's not as lucrative as I thought it was, not as many teams see me as how as highly valued as I see myself. Right, So all those things start to factor in. And now, especially after having you know, sitting out the time he set out getting signed, and then having an achilles injury, now having to work from that back from that Achilles injury, right now, he's probably having to really push to get anything to take him

seriously because of his age and because of his injury. Yeah, and he's also putting stuff out on social media and they say that phrase tape don't lie, It doesn't and I agree with it. And this will go full circle on the whole thing what Jerry said. I was also told later that day Jerry hasn't seen those videos. He hasn't. He just knows Deaz as he knows Deaz. I think the people that are in the building have seen it

and they think this isn't really. I think fans look at that and they're like, oh my god, is this And as I was looking at I actually called a friend of mine who used to do scouting type stuff, and he's like, yeah, I'm not so convinced that he's in shape now. Shouldn't say in shape that he's actually better than he was before. And I don't think he's even close to where he was before. And by the way, and by the way, he never was a great route runner, like he never was at the height of his career.

He wasn't a great route and beating his Twitter followers, isn't there something? I mean, did I dream that maybe he's beating his time? Thought? I saw where guys have like called him out and said like, hey, I could beat you. So they go up there. So the people that are actually the people that are covering him are fans, are fans covering There was a guy that called him out and then they went and he I mean he did abuse him like four or five times. Yeah, but

she was probably in like high school or tis. I don't know, I don't know. But then of course you got to destroy them. I actually I asked Jerry, I was like, you know, the sort of toxic nature of the breakup, didn't that sour you? Like do you think it? Could you feel fine with that, and it was a great answer. He was, you know, he's like I, it wasn't that way for me. Me and Des are cool.

But he also he ended it by saying, like the best of Des is the way that I remember him, right, And I think there are people further down the line who know what he is right now, and that is not There is not a more Jerry statement than that. Yeah, because any of Jerry's former players, Jerry believes the best in them. It's the reason why we see so many players around this building, not players, former players who are

still around this building. A lot of them had questionable moments in their lives and he still has them around this building and around this organization because Jerry believes the best in this place. Also why the team struggled so bad at the late nineties and in the early two thousands, because he was given contracts to players for what they

had done and not what they would do. And by the way, going into that number, I remember in two thousands the salary cap was sixty three million dollars because twenty one of it was dead money, and that was Dave Campbell's first season. Good luck Dave. Sixty three millions of the keys, buddy. Yeah, all right, in twenty years, it's gonna be what I mean, it's it's tooth, it's too something right now. But if the new CBA goes through, it's gonna jump into the fours and fives and this

twenty years crazy. But I've been here long enough to know better than no mine neither really can we get we can do some work on that. Well mine did, I didn't know. I've been here long enough to know not to completely rule anything out, huh, but I do.

I don't think that that's happening with Dez. I just don't. Yeah, I can't see I honestly can't see it at I think that this is a typical Jerry's gonna always believe the best about his players, and then that was what he was, that was the frame of reference that he was speaking when he when he had the glowing things

to say about him. But I just I'll be shocked, honestly, I will be shocked if if Dez is on a roster in the NFL when the season begins, Um, I think his best shot will be season begins, get into the season, team has crazy injuries at wide receiver, and they say, hey, let's give it a shot, same way it happened with the Saints a few years ago. He kind of just have to wait and see how that plays out, and then he may get an opportunity there. All right, let's take our final break. We'll come back.

We've got to talk about Byron Jones and his contract will do when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. I want to use what the pros use. How about the official men's skincare brand or the Dallas Cowboys Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Clack skincare favorites, plus a full

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America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down Based on GWS one score, September twenty nineteen, Back to the Break, Welcome back at his the final segment of The Break live from the s WBC Mortgage studios at the Star, Let's jump right into Byron Jones. Jerry Jones said during his time with the media last week that there will be challenges in bringing

back Byron Jones again, nothing that we didn't know. What are your thoughts on where they stand with Byron Jones. I think we all kind of know it's probably not going to happen, right, Yeah. I think that I just don't feel like the Cowboys think that he is going to be worth what other teams do you know? And that's wow, I'm breaking news there. That's exactly That's what free agency is. You know. They just don't feel like they get It's not that they don't want them. I

just I think they value interceptions more than that. And it's what sounds like when we when we got to talk to um oh Man defensive coordinator Mike Nolan. Nolan, you know, I just I feel like it's not they don't value him as high as as maybe the market will. So it's too many free agents, not enough money. I just it's interesting their thought process behind that decision because so many of their defensive backs are free agents, and not only that, but who's going to be your starter?

I mean, like, do you trust Cheetoh after the way he played last year or Jordan Lewis. I just I guess maybe they have their eye on people to go after and free agency or maybe the draft that was just an interesting I'm like, well, they must have some plan if they aren't very hopeful of bringing back Byron. I just I guess I don't know how confident I am of what we have right now for what the

future likelyholds. I'm gonna pick up the mantle for Cowboys Twitter because this is a debate that's been raging and I don't know where I come down on it, because it's tricky. I think you're making a grave mistake if you measure Byron Jones purely by the amount of interceptions that he gets. Because Bob Sturm all credit to him, he found the stat among cornerbacks that were targeted fifty times or more last year, only Richard Sherman gave up

fewer passing yards. Byron Jones is credited with allowing I believe three hundred and twenty nine passing yards on plays where he was targeted. That's crazy, and there's something to be said for No, he doesn't get picks, but he also doesn't give up a ton of big plays or big gains. And he's just reliably there, hasn't dealt with a lot of injury issues, had a very good season considering he did not have an off season or a training camp at all. I don't think that gets talked

about enough. And on top of that, if the new CBA's approved and these salaries jumped the way that you're supposed to, why can't you sign all three of these guys? Like is there really not enough money or do they just really not value what Byron Jones process the table? And that's sorry not to cut you off, but I think that's something that teams do all the time, where they're like, well, we can't pay everybody. It's like, no, you can. You just don't think signing him is that important,

and that's your right. But those are two different things. I want to see what do they do with the money, because if they go out in free agency and they go sign Chris Harris, let's say then I'm gonna say they Basically what they said was, if we're gonna pay top dollar, we want somebody with a better, true, proven

track record. Right that I'm okay with that. If they don't sign anybody, if they just sign Anthony Brown and they say, hey, we're gonna roll this out and we're gonna see how this works with Anthony Brown and Cheeto in the draft pick and the draft pick, but beend

on where that draft picks. Ye know, if we're gonna make that your top draft pick and he is a and he turns out to be a really good player, then to me, then to me, I feel again, I feel great about it because what they said was, hey, we think Byron Jones a good player, but for that level of money, we think we can get comparable services for less. Right, And that's where I want to see what they do with the money and what they do

this off season. That'll let me know whether this was a well, whether I agree with the thought process behind you. I'm completely with you, because that's I said that on Twitter. Is at the end of the day, I'm okay letting Byron walk because I have optimism that they will do

something meaningful with the money. That money helps you bring back Robert Quinn ideal like, and this is ideal, Well, it helps you bring back Randall Cobb for stuff that as well, But then I would hope some of that money goes toward a good defensive tackle, not you know, not Stephen Paya from a few years ago, you know, not Nolan Carroll at cornerback like, and it doesn't necessarily has to have to be Chris Harris because that could be a huge contract, but a guy who's who's done

it before. Same thing with safety, There's there's nine million experienced safeties out there, from Haha, Clinton Dix to Rodney McLeod to Trey Boston. I know I'm forgetting a couple of guys, but there are options there. And if you're not going to bring back Byron Jones, that money could turn into probably four players who are good enough to start for you and like really start again. We're not talking about Nolan Carroll, like better free agents than what

we've been used to. If you're gonna do that with the savings, let him walk, right, But if you're gonna let him walk and try to bargain hunt this thing and then shoehorn your seventeenth overall pick into starting right away at cornerback. I think that's a recipe for not being as good next year as you were last year. I agree, you know, I also throw this. I want to get your guys feedback on this. Obviously, Byron Jones did what he did? You threw out the numbers there

of kind of how he performed this year. In spite of that, the Cowboys defense was what it was, which I don't think any of us agreed that that it was a good defense. Is this maybe a situation where the Cowboys say, for what he does, it still doesn't

make a big impact on our defense. We really need a cornerback who can get his hands on more balls because otherwise, if we just have a guy that can basically, even if you say he can take away half the feel we still got so many other problems that our defense. We really don't get the benefit of having that guy on that side because it's not really leading to us having a good defense. What do you think about that? I still just can't figure out what happened with the defense.

You know, it wasn't I mean, statistically it was up at the top, it was six or seventh in yards allowed. They just couldn't get many turnovers. They weren't even you know, they were kind of in the middle of the pack and turnovers. Their linebackers played well at times, but not as well as you thought they would play. They got some pass rush with a guy like Quinn, but not as much as you thought from you know, I just I still don't know. I can't put my finger on

what happened there. But so I to answer your question, yeah, he's a good player, but I mean he didn't help the bottom line of the defense. So I agree with Dave. If you're not gonna, you know, if you're gonna just let him go and kind of like they did a few years ago at receiver and just think they can piece it together. It's not gonna work. However, I'll say this, he's moved, He's he can he can be coachable. We've seen that. I mean, he can go from safety to

corner and make it an all pro. If you if you love these corners is al coaches Al Harris and Marissa Linquist, maybe you know, maybe they can help him be what they wanted, you know, what they want for a cornerback. I would like to see how scheme changes

this stuff, because I just looked it up. Ironically, Brandon Carr didn't have any picks for Baltimore this year, but he had six in his first two years and that which you know, he couldn't get one to save his life the final two or three years he was here, he had like six the first couple of years, and when he was in Dallas, right, yeah, Well, I feel like he remember that big Pittsburgh game. I think it was that he had three. He had three each his

first two seasons. Then right around the time the Marinelli scheme kicked into gear, he didn't dried up, which I don't mean to throw dirt on Rod Marinelli. He's I mean, he's a fantastic coach, but how much of it is scheme and how much of it his player? Like have the Cowboys really just not employed a cornerback who's capable of getting an interception for the last five years. I don't think I believe that. So I'd be curious to see what Byron would do somewhere else or here, what

he could do here. It doesn't sound like he's going to be back. I think, you know, there was even a report that he thanked the Cowboys for helping him get to this point, it sounds like everybody's in agreement that he's going to move on, and I don't hate it, but I will hate it if they don't do something with the money that they're saving, because he's a damn good player. And to that point, I mean, I think when you bring that up that like, well, they were

still a bad defense. Is like Patrick Peterson's been on a lot of bad teams. That doesn't make him I mean, he's worth the money, or you know, he's a declining player now he's getting older, but he's been one of the best in the league for like ten years. It's not his fault. He's on a bad team. And that all makes sense. I guess what I'm saying more is is it a situation where for our current constructed are

currently constructed defense. He may be a really good player, but to pay him that much money means that we can't pay some other positions where we make the whole thing better, and we may need to say, hey, let's spend a little less there so that we can maybe get that defensive tackle, maybe get that safety, maybe get that game changing linebacker, whatever the case might be. What are the things that we're going to miss out on if we have to pay now a really a large contract,

a maximum type contract to this cornerback position. I'm a thousand percent comfortable letting him walk if it means you're significantly upgrading safety, d tackle, bringing back Quinn, all that stuff, right, But it's on them to do it. They've been reluctant to. I mean, that hasn't been their mo for a while. But it also forces them to do what they don't like, and that's you've got to go into a draft, you know, probably needing a cornerback, and they probably they could have

done that even if they resigned. Byron Jones, you still think in your first two days, you know, first three rounds, you're gonna probably need to get a corner because you got two next year that are free agent. But that's also where I look at what Dave was saying about those some of those other cornerbacks that are out there in the free agent market. I'd be looking at one of those guys, maybe not the top guy. Maybe it's

not Chris Harris. Maybe it's one of those other guys that are a little farther down that I get him. I get you know, maybe you go back in on Anthony Brown. And now that gives you a little bit of wiggle room, and so you're not forced to take up to cornerback if it falls to you, great, but you're not forced to take a cornerback at a specific pick and repairing apples to apples in what way? Eli Apple? No?

I think it's okay. It's interesting there are there are bridge cornerbacks here, Like I think Byron is like the only guy out here that screams, you know, five year mega deal because you're talking about Josh Norman talking okay. Chris Harris is another one that could get a good deal, but Logan right, his age will be a factor for him. I keep to leave Prince Amukamara like, these are all guys that you could sign to a two or three year deal to cover you. I hope Anthony Brown is

in their plans. He is, Okay, I guarantee he is. And I've said this before. That is my pick for the first player signed ellen March eighteen. I can already see the tweets. You know that if you could get Anthony Brown back and then a bridge veteran Jimmy Smith from Baltimore's available. He's old, he's had injury issues older, I should say he's he's my age getting up. It's all relevant, But you're getting up Anthony Brown and a bridge veteran with a draft pick. It ain't gonna be

a corner by the way. I can't, No, I can't. I can't run a four yard dash. Um, it wouldn't be. It wouldn't be. I would love us, never will ever. Um. You know, it wouldn't be the best cornerback group in the league. But I could feel all right about it, especially if Robert Quinn's there, and maybe you sign up good defensive tackle to help you anchor that down. And there's ways they can make it work. They just got to be willing to spend the money that they're not

spending on Byron Jones. All right, we appreciate you guys. Join us. We're back next week. We'll have more talk for you guys here on the break till then. For Nick Even, Dave Hellman, Danny Serek. I am Derek Elton. This has been the Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a auction of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.