Cowboys Break: What's Next?

of The Break. We are live from the SWBC Mortgage studios. At the start, We've got a lot we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna finish up our conversation on the salary cap we started that last week. There will be more questions I have for these guys about guys that could be here and could be not here in the

amount of niel take to do both. Before we get into that, though, I would get one to start first with a little opener here, And obviously we usually would give everybody an opportunity to talk about a sports topic from the previous week. But I think this week we got to talk about super Bowl. It was obviously a game that that was. I thought it was a good game. I thought it was a fun game. I know some people I've talked to they were like, yah, it's kind of boring. But I thought it was good. It was

good defense. What were you gouts thoughts on the game? Just in general, Logan Wilson did nothing wrong. The refs completely botched the end of that game. It was not it was not defensive holding. They had called three flags all the way through that game, and the subsequent flags were penalties, but that was not and the Rams still would have had a fourth downd to try to score

or convert. And I thought the refs completely botched what would have been otherwise a really dramatic moment, you know, to give the Rams first and goal on a BS call like that, I just thought tainted it. Obviously I'm a little biased. I wanted the Fingals to win. Just full disclosure, full disclosure. Yeah, I mean if if if I had really wanted the Rams to win, I would have had a reason why that was okay. Yeah, you know, Ramsey got face masked on the long touchdown to Higgins.

I get it, but I just thought that kind of put a damper on you have tattooed his face on you your body, Joe. They wanted to know I'm not I'm not tattooing another person on me. That's a lot bad idea. That's a lot unless it's like mom, like mom can get that kind of mona go there. But other than that, maybe Mom just don't. But I'm really happy for Odell, really happy for Andrew Whitworth. Way to go there, unless you guys on both squads like, yeah, that's the beauty of it. Yeah we got guys. Yeah,

what do you think? Yeah, you know what. Some people didn't find it fun, and I get it, but it was fun to me. It was fun to see a different team on the Super Bowl and and it allows you to in your mind be like, Okay, well it could happen. We can see ourselves in there someday. You know,

it's doing doing the Bengals got there, we're doing. I'm actually gonna ask that question, like did you come out of that game feeling better, worse or about the same as what you did at the end of the season, Like, man, maybe I could see the Cowboys here or I have I can't see any fat I can't even fathom the Cowboys being here, like, did it change anything for you, Jimmy.

It was a mixture of both, because on one hand, it's like, Okay, yes, it's absolutely doable, But on the other hand, it's like, damn, I feel like this was the year. You know, the Cowboys had shown so many things. Obviously not at the end of the year, but they had shown so much potential, and I really felt that this was our year if there was ever gonna be a year, and it did not happen. So personally, it

was a mixture of both. But once again, you talk about defense and defenses winning championships for you, and we saw that with Aaron Donald, and it was just like, damn, Okay, we definitely need another step up on this defense. And I truly believe they were getting close to getting there, but we need a bad as defense any good quarterback. I mean, I thought it was the best ever. I mean, just a coloution of talent. Yeah, I mean, I'd like to start with and then and then Eminem comes in

and fifty cent. I'm all in on that. I mean, yeah, I mean, I just thought it was it was amazing, and I don't care what people say. I mean, I was arguing with people onto it, not really arguing because I was I said it was the best ever, and people said I was wrong, and I told him I wasn't asking. I mean right, I was my opinion. This is mean what in a question mark like best ever? Like not best ever? Because Dave knows this. I mean all that is in my wheelhouse and in the early

nineties hip ho hop see. I think of that as more my wheelhouse. I mean never. That's what made it great. It was a combination of not not not not I mean Dre and Snoop no, but the era, like they didn't play early nineties stuff like he was playing stuff from two thousand and one, which is when I was in middle school high school. Loved it and yeah, I'm just saying. I mean, fifty cent in the club is like, yeah, that's definitely yeah. I mean I've Kendrick Lamar. I mean,

that's really my wheelhouse. But you know, I mean we can share it. I thought it was awesome. As for the game, you know, the Cowboy. To win it, you've got to be like I mean, Matthew Stafford him, and look how many times they almost didn't get there. You know, they almost just lost that whole thing against the Rams, and then the forty nine ers were in control, and then the Mingals were in control. So to win it, win a Super Bowl, you've got to go three or

four times. You've got to be like perfect and make all the plays against good teams. And the Cowboys only made the plays against a good team once and that was the Patriots. Before the Patriots even got it going, they were kind of bad before that, so they nedn't really beat a good team playing well all year, and you have to do it three or four times. So I don't know if they're really that close. And not only that, I think that game to me showed that

you gotta be good, well really good. You also have to have some lucky moments. That that call, Dave, I think was a good That was a lucky moment for the Rams, because that was a very questionable call. I'm not gonna say it was a wrong call because I think there's a there's case that technically it probably could have been a holding. But I do think that's a

lucky break for the Rams. And I think in any any team is going to win a championship along the way, you're gonna have some lucky breaks that just are not about you. It's just a lucky break that happens, and that's how you get where you get Stafford through a duck to Jakoiski Tart in the NFC title game that got dropped. And if it doesn't, you're sitting here saying, like, rooms did all this, and we're so they fell so short, and this is why you don't go all in and

do all this crazy stuff. And imagine that now we're building, we're building a narrative around how the Niners got it right. That's and I mean, you can always try to learn stuff from the Super Bowl teams, but I think you got to take it with a grain of salt too, because it takes so many breaks to pull that off. It absolutely does. And I want to say, like not to be glass half empty, but I think Cowboy fans buy and large are still pretty pissed off. Oh yeah,

and rightfully so. And so when I see the Bengals in the Super Bowl, it actually makes me feel dejected because I look, I love Joe Burrow, but I'm just like this, say, this is not a super Bowl team. Like they got there with a point margin of thirteen points in the playoffs, Like by the skin of their teeth. Joe got sacked like eighteen times in the playoffs. That's

not an exaggeration. And I'm just like these guys there, I'm all credit to them, they got there, but like that is not what a Super Bowl team traditionally looks like. And I just look at that and I'm like, cowboys can't pull this out of their butts once in twenty six years. Even they've had great teams make the playoffs. They've kind of snuck into the playoffs a few times, doesn't matter. They've never they've never caught that lightning in

a bottle when they needed to. And I'm just like, if these guys can do it, it's a matchup of two or four seeds. Hasn't happened in forever, Yeah, and we're sitting here wondering why a team that's been the one, two,

three seed can't pull it off. It's just like, my god, man, so like it's almost more statistically improbable that you don't ever string something together than it is that you do because the other teams that are in the same boat with you, they're teams that have just been traditionally bad,

like they don't make playoff appearances. Right, That's the part that's weird is when you look at the Cowboys, they're an anomaly from the standpoint of a team that regularly has been in the mix, but for whatever reason, for twenty six years, hasn't won champions been to a championship game. Like it tells me like they've part of that. They've

been just unlucky. They don't get those kind of breaks for whatever moment, and in those moments where a break here or break there makes a difference, they don't get those breaks, and by quite frankly, they haven't been good enough and whatever reason. You can look around too, Like the cruelty of it is like the I mean, the Bengals are in that club right now, but the Panthers

stand out to me, the Buccaneers. Tampa's a little different because they signed Tom Brady, but even like even franchises that you typically think of as like kind of sorry, like the Panthers are either pretty bad or they're good enough to be in the Super Bowl, and they've made it twice over the last twenty years, just two more times than the Cowboys have, and you're just like, they

can't do it. Either way. They can't be dominant the way that these perennial playoff contenders are and they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat either and it just it sucks. It's frustrating. Yeah, Nick, what do you think about DeMarcus ware not getting into the Hall of Fame. I was surprised, obviously, until I've you know, called around

and figured out, like what was what's going on? And I realized that the committee is making a big change, and they took a stance this year to let everyone know that they want they want to differentiate between first ballot Hall of Famers and Hall of Famers, and they made a point this year to get some other guys in there that they thought was deserving, and they didn't

put DeMarcus in that category. And so it's unfortunate because it was going to be a bad Hall of Fame class if he was in there, and for him not to put in there like that, I just think it was terrible, you know, But I just don't understand the difference if you're a Hall of Famer or a Hall of Famer. But then again, this is coming from the person like when I graduated high school, you know, it was just a cap and gown. But then some people have like a little yellow tassels, you know, to show

that they were with honors. I mean I didn't have that obviously. I'm just like, what's the difference, and we're all graduating here, but like these people were honors. I feel like that's what this is. It was like, well, you have a really gold platinum, gold jacket. You just have a gold jacket, platinum goal, I think, which it's

really disappointing. I thought he deserved to be in. I was honestly shocked, Like I kept I watched it live when they brought them all out, and like you know, they cut to the presenter first, and they cut to Emmett and I was like, okay, Emmet's introducing somebody. It's got to be DeMarcus Ware and it was like a ref or something, and then like they got are you kidding And they got to the end. I was like, um,

I still haven't heard Demarcus's name. Like it took probably thirty seconds for me to finally accept that he wasn't getting called. Said all of that, Like to your point, if you're a Hall of Famer, you're a Hall of Famer, and I guarantee you that was the committee's mindset in the opposite direction. And they're like, he'll get in next year. What's the difference. These guys might not get in ever, And I think that's what we just saw. They're like,

let's they cleared the backlog. They were like, these guys have been stuck for a while. People have been arguing on behalf of Leroy Butler and Tony Boselli is another one. Like they people have been arguing about these guys for a decade. And I think they were like, and you can disagree with me if you want, but the committee was like, they're deserving, let's get them in. DeMarcus Ware

will be in. And it was validated. This was just my opinion and it was validated the next day when Rick Goslin, who's like the godfather of Hall of Fame voters, he wrote that column basically like his column was like, DeMarcus Ware's time is coming. These guys need to go in. And I'm like, disagree, but okay, And so I don't know he'll be in next year. Let's talk about Leroy Butler for a second. Yeah, because this is act feel on that. Yeah, but this is actually you should be No,

you should be happy. It's a good But what I'm saying, that's why they have the mixed feelings. Yeah, he's not a better player than Darren Woodson never has never, never has been, I mean never will be, obviously, but he wasn't. He wasn't in the same category. But they voted him. Those voters voted him at All Decade Team for the nineties. So he had to go in before Woodson. So Woodson's ever going to get in. John Lynch had to get in, Lorie Butler had to get in in their mind, and

so now this opens the door. I think for Woodson more than than you you know, you would think it would. It's the most confident I've ever felt that wood He's gonna get in. Yeah. Maybe maybe not in twenty twenty three, but like I think you can grease those wheels now, which is cool. It's just weird for me. I look at the list of guys and I think, particularly there were two names on this list this year that to

me are more deserving of the Hall of Fame. And I understand they're like they're trying to get guys in that that are deserving. I guess but I'm always like, take them and put them on a list of best to worst, and then the ones out of the best in that group get to go. Because I think DeMarcus Ware and I think another travisty was was Patrick Willis. Patrick Willis, in time he played the NFL, was considered,

in my opinion, among the very best linebackers. And there was a period of time there where he was the best linebacker middle linebacker in the NFL. And to me, that's what a Hall of Famer is. And so I'm just I don't really know. Obviously I'm not in those meetings. I don't know how they talk about all this stuff, but to me, I think so often they get caught up in all the other things. Who do these guys back on? Do we need to get? Me? Like, just

make it simple? Who are the best players? And listen out in order of the best players, and the top number of them get in that. That to me is the best and most simple way to do this and do it right. You know how long we've been doing this show is seventeen years, and I'll tell you to put it in perspective. We were on doing a pre draft show one time before the Draft show. We were just doing our show. And trust me, I'm wrong about a lot of people. But I was like, the cow

Boys needs to draft Devin Hester. Yeah, second or third round, because remember that this guy will make a difference. And I think I said third round, and he went in the second round, so like that wasn't gonna happen. But like I came to my office when he got drafted, like, oh, my guy's gone. Yeah. Of course. I also was like I did not want to Marcus Ware, so I just thought Derek Johnson was a way better pick than DeMarcus Ware. And he was pretty good, but he was it was

a good player, had a good career. I don't know if and Devin Hester belongs in the Hall of Fame. I agree, And again when you talk about it, if you say, man, this guy changed. It was the very best at what he did in the time he was in the NFL. Then to me, that's easy. Those are the guys that should be first ballot, right because like they they are guys that are that were recognized by their peers and by media and whoever else in the time they were playing. They were among the very best

in the league every year. I just I agree, and I think it gets a little convoluted sometimes, but I also think that's it's that's a really hard job because everybody's got an opinion about this, Like Baselli has been a flashpoint player for years. He only played ninety one NFL games, but he's a three time All Pro, and anybody who's familiar with that era, especially like watching the Jags, like anyone will tell you he was the best tackling football for a four year period, which willis is kind

of similar. He only played like seven years, but he was the absolute best almost the whole time he did it. And so parsing all of that out is tough. So I don't envy those guys, and it's disappointing for where but I all, like, I'll bet you twenty dollars today he's in at this time next year, So I think this time last week, I think we all probably would have bet made that same bit, yeah that he was gonna be in, and he wasn't. And so I just I just hate when they put it off like, oh,

he'll get in. I just think if a guys do and ready, he should be in. Like I just think that you wait to five years for that period and then if you're ready and you're the guy, you should get it. He's absolutely got a resume deserving of being first ballot. And Jared Allen didn't get in either, did he And that's another guy that probably has a first ballot resume in my opinion, maybe not as good as Wears, but you could make the case. I mean, honestly, it's

it's hard. I think you're right. It's hard when you get to this point because most of the guys that were finalists, you could make an argument, a pretty credible argument that they belong in the Hall of Fame. The question just becomes who gets in what year? And that's why I'm like, just take it in order. Who's the best players, and the best players that year get in. If that means you're never among the best that year, that probably also tells you something that maybe they're not

Hall of Famers. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you. What I don't like is this bubbling conversation that Stafford's a Hall of Famer now that he won a Super Bowl. Mike, you gotta be kidding me. I mean, his career is not over. Maybe he will be by the time it's over, but him winning that game on Sunday does not put him in the Hall of Fame. And let you hear Richard Sherman. Yeah, and I agreed with everything he said, like, at no point have you even been one of the

three best quarterbacks in the league. Yeah. So anyway, all right, we're gonna take our first break when we come back. We're gonna get into this conversation of the salary cap. We've got a lot of questions for these guys. We started that last week. We talked about most of the offensive guys. We got a couple offensive guys and some defensive guys. We need to get to how to that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. At ATNC, everyone new and existing customers get

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slash Cowboys. Back to the Break. I don't know how you can forget this, but if you have forgotten to get your WrestleMania tickets, remember it's coming to the stadium April second, April third, two night event at AT and T Stadium. Get your tickets on SeatGeek dot com. It's Rustlemania Welcome Back. Here is a second segment of the Break Life in s WBC Mortgage Studios at the Star.

We're going to get to our conversation on the cap before we do that, though I don't know if we are because I take a whole segment and then we'll do a segment on the cap. But we do need to talk a little bit about a conversation that happened yesterday. I think it happened yesterday. Mike McCarthy was on the Rich eisenshow gave a really interesting some really interesting comments and kind of alluded to some stuff that our own Dave Hellman was reporting from the Senior Bowl and his

talks with Jerry Jones. So let's Dave, why don't you kind of walk us through and set this up for us? And then we got some clips who want to want to talk about. Yeah, So Mike went on Rich Eisen's show yesterday and I mean they talked about a bunch of stuff. But Rich Eisen cited our story which I wrote on Dallas Cowboys dot com can give you a shout out by name, which I don't. I'm not. I'm not in it for the cloud. I'm in it for

the love of the game. Um, but interesting, Uh yeah, I mean, if you follow the Cowboys, you're probably aware a couple of weeks ago at the Senior Bowl, Jerry Jones told myself and Jerry Epstein, he just he said a lot of interesting things, namely that you know, maybe Dan Quinn would like to be the head coach of the Cowboys one day. Mike McCarthy won't be the head coach forever, by the way, No, that and I thought Rich Eisen did a great job of framing it, and

that was the point of my story. He said a bunch of things that are factually correct. Still weird to hear the owner and general manager of a team that just made the playoffs say them out loud, like you generally don't start talking about the successor for a coach that you're happy with. So anyway, eisn't asked McCarthy about all this. I thought he was shockingly transparent. Beam I would if you can queue up the one about d

Q McCarthy. This is McCarthy talking about his relationship with Dan and them talking to each other about people speculating about Dan taking his job. You know, we talked about him staying here. Uh, you know, long before he even took it, took the interview. No, obviously when he took the interview, and then this, you know, this narrative broke out. I think it in reflection to the relationship to Dan.

I do have you know he just said Hey, man, if I'm not comfortable with this narrative, you know, if you really feel like I need to take one of his jobs, you know, just be honest with him. And we kind of laughed about it, and I just said, Dan, ten to twelve years ago, i'd tell you please get the hell out of here. I don't want to deal with this. But three l of it is I'm about winning.

He's about winning, and the best thing for the Cowboys is for Dan Quinn to be here, which I love the transparency first of all, just like, yeah, we've talked about this and the idea that Dan was like, Man, I can get out of your hair if this is gonna be a problem for you, And McCarthy was like, I can handle it, which I'm going to remember I don't. I don't know. I feel like that could be famous

last words, to be honest with you. Just depending on how the season goes, like unless he's okay with whatever outcome, like that might all be part. This is a veteran coach, he's won a championship, like he's he's coached at two of the most iconic brands in the National Football League. He might be like, I'm not getting slide checked by any of this. If at whatever point they make a decision, I'm not the coach. I'm good to walk away and

be fine with that. I guess my point is like, it's easy to say that in February, but when if you're three and four in October and the noise is just beating down on you from all directions, and you're like, right, he's just killing you every day. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, and then okay, and then we'll do another one. Which

I thought this was great. Rich Eisen. He was like, you know, have you have you talked to Jerry Jones about how he kind of dangled your feet over the fire like this, And he's like, oh yeah, And he brought up Dan and Sean Payton by name, so we know now thanks to Mike McCarthy that he has talked to Jerry Jones about So you know, you're just corton retired coaches for my job, give this a listen. But we talked about it. We talked about Dan's situation definitely, um,

you know, we talked about Sean Payton's narrative. Also, yeah, it's it's it's been discussed. You have to discussed that with him what is what is is anything you can share that you have? Really the just the conversation was, you know you and I are in this, you know, back to back and um, you know it's a partnership and you know, just focus on what we need to

do moving forward. Um. And you know, and he made some you know, personal comments about you know, how he feels about up as you know that's really for him and eye. But yeah, I'm very very comfortable with our relationship and our dialogue. I mean, it's uh, at the end of the day, we both want the same thing and it's uh, and it's you know, to win a

world championship and Andy and definitely the narratives are unusual. Um, but at the end of the day, I think you have to You've got to trust the relationships and in a communication and a connection that you have. I'm dying to know what Jerry's personal comments about how he felt about it that Mike didn't want to share work. That's my main takeaway from that. Like what did Jerry say

He's like winner, winner else? Right? I think that like his opinion about Sean Payton, like whatever Jerry's thoughts about that. But I don't know I just I mean, you know, I ask for the dan Quinn stuff. I think that he has to. Um, you know, if he doesn't go to the super Bowl or to the championship game, I think he's probably not going to be the coach here anyways. So it doesn't really matter. He's got to get there.

That's the way that he keeps his job is probably to have success that this team hasn't had in so many years. He said the word narrative a hundred times. Well, the narrative is that this team hasn't won a super Bowl or even been to Super Bowl in twenty six years. So that's the only narrative that matters. You fix that then, and the best way to do that is to have dan Quinn here. So I mean, I don't know, I don't know what else I mean, because because he could say, well,

go somewhere else. If you don't get it done, then either he comes back or someone else's the coach. So so the best way, and he said it, the best way for them to have success is for them both to be here. Yeah, let me ask you guys this question. And I feel free to say, you know, I really

don't feel comfortable answering it. But what do you think was his motivation behind doing this, because again, he doesn't have to meet with the media, This was something that he did carry for saying it or Mike Mike from Mike actually saying yes, Rich, I'll come on your show, knowing that this would probably be part of the versation and in two in sharing at least some of the details of some of this stuff that before, like you said, Dave, we didn't know something. We had not had a confirmation

of some of this stuff until he mentioned it. And definitely the comment that he made about Dan and him and Dan having the conversation like do you really want me to leave? Like, what do you think is the motivation that he's of him actually being that transparent with the media on this, probably getting out in front of it, and well, not really getting out in front of it, because Jerry just lobbed that into the news cycle on

his own. But I do think I think it helps or does something to just acknowledge it and again that degree of transparency, like, yeah, Dan and I have a good enough relationship that we talked about him maybe even leaving to spare me the problems of this speculation and I think at the very least, the goal, I think is at least to dispel the notion that everybody's walking around with a knife behind their back, you know, like Dan Quinn's just waiting for him to turn around so

he can get in there and take the job, and so to at least present the idea that there's like a unified front between him and Dan and him and Jerry, like, yes, I've talked to Jerry about Sean Payton sitting out there, like I get it, and to Nick's point, we gotta win. Um. So I don't know if it, I know for a fact doesn't change anything because people are gonna talk about this all year, but to at least kind of be

transparent about like, look, yeah, I got it. This is part of the landscape of coaching the Dallas Cowboys, which good on you for realizing it. I don't know, at least, like I said, it's not gonna make it go away, but at least he's kind of admitting that he's got his blinders off, which Jason Garrett would never Jason Garrett would be like, what are you talking about? Like, and I don't think that helps anybody there? Are you with a smile like, yeah, I don't think I know what

you're talking about. Yeah, I think. Oh I'm not answering that question, okay, because you and you don't want me to answer, so I trust now I want you to no, no, no, Now going for the break. I just want to hear the break answering why he did that, because yeah, chicken, oh god, please stop stop stop, please stop? No stop stop.

We'll talk about it in the break. Reason, we will talk about it in the break, and then I will let you guys know, yes, this is appropriate for the air, or maybe it's not appropriate for the air, but yeah, let's let's what are you thinking, well, I mean I just about to say exactly what you would think. You probably No, No, I just think that. I mean, once you start hearing so much things from outside, whether you want to say you don't listen to outside noise or whatever,

that's a lot. We we're all humans. It happens, it does get to you at some point. So I think it's just the combination of different things. I mean, we eve, whoever watched the NFL onners, I mean, you heard the joke and they put Dak Prescott on good point there, so level of you hearing so many things and you being now kind of turning into a joke. I mean I would do the same exact thing. I would show up on an interview, speak my mine up, say you know,

we're very open about the situation. I mean, my McCarthy is not blind, he's not deaf, he's not dumb either. He sees what's happening. So it just kind of takes the fire a little bit. It's not gonna turn it off or anything, but at least everyone hears it that. He's very well aware of it. He's hurt, he's had those conversations with Jerry Jones, with dan Quinn. And at the same time, I think it's another thing of like, you know, he's a man, and man are competitive. He's

in a very competitive industry, very competitive sport. So I don't think this is a situation that if ever it came out about dan quinn living or whatever, it's like, oh, my McCarthy was scared of dan Quinn taking his job. At some point it's like, no, Okay, yeah, of course I'm gonna stay here. Of course i'm gonna say I can do this job. Of Course I'm gonna compete and do the best that I can do to show you what I got, and if he fails at it, guess

he got somebody else. I can't take it from him, but I think that it was great for him to do that, and it was needed rather than go into a whole new season with all this speculation and him getting bombarded every time at a press conference. So I applaud him for actually going out there and saying the things that he did. Yeah, I agree with you, I think sometimes not sometimes. I'm a big believer in all the time, control what you can control, which also includes

the narrative. So if there's something out there that's being talked about that you're a part of, and you have an opportunity to get in front of microphone and tell your thoughts on it, then do that. Speak whatever is the truth that you know it to be and whatever it is that you want people to know about the situation. Be willing to do that, especially in this organization, because as we saw, Jerry got out there and Jerry said what he thought. So if Mike says nothing, then it

kind of just gets left as well. Mike doesn't have any thoughts on this, or he's afraid to say what he's thinking. So I think it was a situation where he could get out there and just kind of and take control of his own narrative to some degree, and it doesn't have to necessarily match up with everybody else. It's just his thoughts on the situation. Yeah, I thought, I thought that's probably the best you could do with a not good situation. Yeah, I mean he said it.

We didn't play the clip, but he said earlier in the interview, like, of course, I wish we were talking about anything but this, And he also said, this is not something I've ever dealt with before. Yeah, he made it clear. There was there were little moments in there where he said things that it seemed like he was making it clear, Yeah, this is abnormal. I'm having to adapt to it. But this is the Cowboys. He made

that very clear throughout. The Packers are certainly one of the biggest, most iconic brands in the league, but they I mean, I guess the Aaron Rodgers circus last year was a taste for them of what this is like every year. But by and large, like when even the coach of the Packers, like Mike McCarthy, used to just disappear every offseason, like you get. You have that luxury when you coach the Packers, unless your Hall of Fame quarterback gets mad about something and turns it into a

six month news cycle. But that's not the norm in Green Bay. This stuff happens every year. So yeah, good for him for adapting to it. Another part is that, you know, I said this earlier that I don't know how close they are to being able to be, you know, perfect, to win three or four games in a row. We haven't seen that. But you know, when you look around the NFC and you look at all, right, who's who's coming back and who has a chance to do something?

Even with all the free agents that they could lose, the Cowboys should be right there at the end with the chance to go. And that's all you want is a chance. Um, And I think I think that they have. I think you said it the other day, Dave. When you look around the NFC, there's other teams with bigger question marks than even the Cowboys have, And the Cowboys were a good team last year. They're gonna lose some guys,

but they're gonna they're gonna probably keep some. They're gonna probably they're going to bring in a couple guys that are gonna help them. I just know that. I just know dank Win will do that. If we're being real, lay that's the draft. That's That's what I find disconcerting. Is like just on paper, the cow I mean, you can roll your eyes if you want to, but on paper, the Cowboys are in as good of a spot to roll over their momentum and be a good team next year.

Like the Packers might lose Aaron Rodgers, the Bucks already lost Tom Brady, the Saints lost Sean Payton. I don't know why I included the Saints in there. They weren't even good last year. The ramp I mean, Aaron Donald might retire. Sean McVay, there are retirement rumors about him, which is weird to me. I heard, yeah, I was like, what, San Francisco's probably gonna trade their starting quarterback, which you can argue how good he actually is, but that they're

gonna they'll be different. They're gonna move forward with a guy that's never really done it before. Problem Minnesota's got a new coach. Like you start going down the list of all the teams that were in the hunt, in the mix, of playoff all that stuff. They're all gonna have different thing a lot of them will. But the Cowboys, because of who they are and because of stuff like this, are going to be in this firestorm that is going to make it more difficult than it needs to be

to just focus on getting better. And that's frustrating, but it is what it is. Yeah, Parcels talked about it when he got here. He said, you know, it's playing working at the Cowboys coaching playing. You have to be ready for it. It's the big stage because it is that's where like it is a it is a it's got a big light shining on it at all times, and so there's always going to be extra stuff outside of just football that you got to deal with if you're going to play and coach here. This goes against

I know, I'm just shouting into the void. It's not going to happen, But I'd love to see an offseason where the Cowboys losing the playoffs and then just sort of fade away into the ether for six months and come back at training camp like, Okay, we're ready to We're going to try to be better this year. Like it's never gonna happen that way. Instead, you're gonna have the GM and the coach going back and forth about whether he'll be the coach here next year. It's just

all right, wild, we're gonna take our final break. When we come back, we are going to have some cap talk. We got some some guys that you talk about that are that will impact the cap whether they're here or not. We'll do that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Hi, I'm Clint Tillison with man. I'm Jay Novachek, and we're both with Turf, the official

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a final segment of the Break. Life in SWBC more each studios at the Star, Let's talk some cap salary cap. Last week we got started, we talked about the big names, a lot of the big names. You got your Marii Coopers and your to Marcus Lawrences and and we kind

of got through all of that at this one. I think is an interesting little take because it's not a move you have to make, and it doesn't really wouldn't necessarily in none of these moves necessarily will save you a ton of money, but they could be bits of money.

And I say bits of money. I know that's gonna sound weird because we're talking millions of dollars, but it could be money that if you make a few of these moves all added together, it actually could be a significant amount of money for the Cowboys against their Caps. So let's talk about the cornerback position right now. He got a guy who's gonna be entering his second year in Kelvin Joseph. I would say we probably would all agree that he had some moments this year where he

flashed where you thought it a pretty good player. That all being said, do you is he reliable enough for you, whether that be on the field or off the field, is he reliable for enough for you at this point for you to consider cutting either Anthony Brown or Jordan Lewis to save some money. I'm not trying to hate on Kelvin. I think it's a stretch to say that he even flashed. Really, yes, I think he got on the field at the end of the season and seemed

to hold up pretty well. Like he played against Arizona. He did all right, had a chance at a pick, and then he got to play in the JV game against the Eagles, and he played like seventy snaps and was fine. I don't know if that's enough to say that he flashed. I thought, I don't. I'm not down on him at all. Do you just to clarify that, do you think he was better or worse or the same as what you would expect to see from Anthony Brown.

I don't think that it's nearly enough of a sample size to compare to guys that played like a thousand snaps. I mean, Anthony Brown was out there every week, and Jordan was for the most part as well. This was his most involved season ever. And so you say something just combining that with again, you hate on ab all you want. You can hate on Jordan all you want. They were serviceable, I would say, at or near replacement level, some weeks above, some weeks maybe a little bit below.

But they were serviceable guys by NFL standards. They're not making enough money that they're contract is like blinking at me, you know, like every year you're like, whoof that is a contract that is not living up to what it needs to be. They are performing right at what you expect for the money the Cowboys gave them, So I just I don't see a reason to tinker with that. Yeah,

I mean it's hard to compare anybody. But when you think about Treyvon Diggs and his second year, entering his second year, he got to play a lot more in his rookie year, and you felt really good about him going into the second year based off of what we've seen. But Kelvin Josephs he didn't give us that because for whatever the reason, because he wasn't good enough really to beat out Anthony Brown or Jordan Lewis and of course Diggs.

But also when he was there, he did okay, you know, he got kicked out of a game too for like a fight. I mean like he just well, whatever the reason, he just didn't get a chance to show a lot. And so it's a big offseason for him. I mean, but you said, are you comfortable and it may be a situation where you have to do it anyways, you're

just you're you're you're not going to be comfortable. It's like I guess the people that that bungee jump, I mean, they're gonna do it because they have they feel like they have to, but they're probably not comfortable doing it. But then hopefully it works out. That's that's what it is. I mean, you might have to cut one of those guys Lewis or Brown and say, well, we drafted this guy,

he's gonna have to play. Doesn't mean you're comfortable. I'm not gonna rely on anyone that I barely remember anything about, you know, Like I'm sitting here trying to There's nothing I can really remember. And I watched every single game, so there was nothing memorable that he did for me to feel comfortable enough to say, oh yeah, let's rely

on this guy on Kelvin Joseph. But at the same time, when I look at the money on Anthony Brown and Jordan Lewis, and it's crazy because I would love to have that kind of money, But at the same time, it just looks so little. It's like, okay, we have we all, you have to, you have to, we all have to agree that there's an NFL standard, and then there's a real life you take this. He rolls off.

That's what I found as comfortable, Like there's five million dollars, But if I just look at his five that feels better to me than say five, I would faint. I would faint if presented with five million dollars. But in the world of the NFL, it's nothing. But when you look at their money and what the Cowboys would save, I'm just like, uh, it's it's nothing. Well, but let's let's zeros. I think, man, I want to take two

zeros off, right, what do I mean? Just just to make you feel like it just it just feels more natural to just say five versus five million, like for me, just feels a little a little more relatable. You have to just make the concession that we're way out of our depth and you're just like, look this, this is not our world. We're just talking about it. And just to be clear, Anthony Brown, if they were cut him,

they would say five billion. And as regardless of if they cut him now or they cut him, say I said billion. I did not say. I did not. I was not trying to say billion. That's way off. Yeah, five million, he would. They would say five million against the cap, whether it's now or June first cut. And Jordan Lewis would save two point three if they cut him now, three point four million if they cut him as a June one cut. What I would do with

the cornerbacks? Again, I say this about everything like depth is great. I love having depth. Like you look at the cornerback chart, maybe the best I've felt about the cornerback depth chart for this team and forever, Like you've got a superstar, two adequate starters, and then two highly drafted guys that maybe you're not thrilled about, but you don't feel bad about. I mean, it's about as good as you can ask for, unless you stumble into Allegian

in the fu. Yeah, you take those guys to training camp. If Kelvin Joseph makes a digs like jump, now you got trade bait. Now you have the luxury to cut somebody at roster cuts if you need to. You still save that money, like you save that money in September the same way. Just doesn't help you in free agency with trying to resign your own guys or trying to get other guys. They don't give you enough money to

really help you anyway. Like you get more money out of restructuring a bigger contract than you do out of cutting those guys. Well that's where I think, you know, it's it's that whole principle with money, right, Yeah, A dime unto itself is not a lot of money, but you start collecting dimes and before you know it, you

got a significant amount of money. I do think that five million dollars is nothing that like that that might help you resign a guy that you want to be able to keep right, that may be ja Ron curse, right, So I think it does matter. Even though it's not huge money. It's not the twenty million savings. Five million is significant. It's not a big enough saving for me

to go messing with my depth chart. That's just me, like, and that's fair, that's fair, that's good to come down to the two guys you just mentioned, and Na Sean Wright and Kelvin Joseph if those guys are ready to make that leap. But I but do you know that they're ready until you get to like camp or even after that? Really no, And I don't think you can you can mess with it. They didn't show you enough things where you could be like, you know, I mean

like Diggs. Diggs showed them enough that I mean they were excited about him, be honest, showed them enough that you know, they thought they could you know, I think it was a mistake, but whatever, I mean, But the rookies playing but Kelvin Joseph hasn't done that. And I've said it a hundred times. I'll say it again. These next three or four months are big, big months for him because his track record has never been about talent.

It's about his commitment to where he's at and to put the extra work in there to really say, hey, I'm a part of this. I want to get better and not just live up to my athletic ability. That's why I want to see what he comes back in the offseason. Has he made this big leap as he does, his body look better, as he quicker, Is he taking care of himself, committed to it? If if so, he could be really good. But yeah, the seat you can't predict this to a certainty. But the ab and Jordan

Lewis deals are small enough that they're probably movable too. Like, not for anything crazy, but if Kelvin Joseph is a badass at camp, you could trade one of those guys for a late round pick, which is better than cutting him for nothing. I mean, I know, you forego the savings, but again, I'm going to restructure Dak. You can restructure Zach Martin. You can do a lot of stuff to free up that money without having to cut those guys. I haven't looked out at all the free agents that

are expected to be this year around the NFL. But could there be another guy that's you wouldn't necessarily be a grade in the position and spending a ton of money, but that could provide you some kind of the different like experience from a veteran guy that maybe it's slightly better than what you got in Anthony Brown. I don't know, like a guy that would be available in March, like

somebody else's free agent. You mean, yeah, yeah, that maybe you're keeping an eye on and you're like, okay, this is doable, and he might be slightly better than Anthony Brown. We've seen what Anthony Brown has given us and maybe it just doesn't theoretically, yeah, I mean that could be possible.

It will cost you more to sign somebody else's guy than to just keep your own, probably, But it comes down to what dan quinn can do, and dan Quinn will McClay those guys of the players that they've ad and say, hey, you know, Jon Curse wasn't with um dan Quinn. He just had played against him and seen him and said, you know, kind of had an eye on him, So yeah, that's what I'm looking at it. Who's gonna be those guys? We we oh, we talked about this on the thing we shot with Brit Johnson yesterday.

Just like after seeing that, the pressures on to do it again because yeah, like that's a great point. Jaron Curse isn't even a career Quinn guy. Dan Quinn was like, yeah, let's sign him, and he's a beast, and Demonte Casey was pretty good and Malie Cooker was pretty good. Carlos Watkins probably doesn't get enough credit for how well he played relative to how much he costs, Like, well, go do it again, because they're not going to give you

significantly more funding this year. But now we expect these free agents to hit because they did the first year under Quinn. If we go back to the norm where half of these guys get cut in the other half don't really do anything, that's gonna be first, it's gonna be a bummer, and it's also gonna impede this team from improving, like they have to do at least as good of a job this year finding those guys as they did last year. Allright, let's slip to the tight

end position. Right now, you've got Blake Jarwin. He is if they were to cut him, they could get three point eight million back. If it's June one cut, they could get four point eight million back against their cap. Now, the entriesting part about that is you got Dalton Schultz, who will be a free agent, and not to say that you could sign him for that same money, but certainly anything could help. Do you think that Number one? Do you think that the Cowboys should make Dalton Schultz

a priority as far as a free agent signing? And then number two, would you cut Blake Jarwin for the purposes of resigning Dalton Scholtz? I would? I would start with Schultz. I would. That would be the first thing that you know, if I'm the Cowboys, I make up my mind there. I'm like, do we feel like we need him to be a part of this? And if they're like, yes, we do. He's got to be here. He helps, you know, all the other guys, then then I would try to resign him. And then if that happens,

then I'm going to let go of Jarwin. And the reason why is because I've always thought that they're almost the same player. You know, Neither one of them are great blockers. They're kind of their pass catcher. One's got better hands than the other, one can move a little bit better. One's taller and longer. But whatever, they they're about the same. So I need I need a blocker anyways, So I don't need both of them to do that and cost that kind of money. I could be wrong,

I've been. It's it's so hard to predict what these guys are worth on the open market. I remember famously I missed the Terrence Williams things so bad, Like I just I thought he would get priced out of here, and he didn't. He wound up coming back. So anything's possible. I don't I don't think the Cowboys will be able to compete with whatever Dalton Schultz gets offered if they let him hit free agency, which I assume they will.

Like you just look at the free agent list, he's one of the better ones hitting this year, and certainly Graham Gronkowski, like all those guys are sort of moving out of their prime. Dalton Schultz is entering his prime. I just think I think he's going to get an offer that the Cowboys can't really compete with and so

that's why I would love to keep him around. But I just think like that's a classic case of like we're gonna get a third or fourth round comp for a guy that we spent a fourth round pick on. We're gonna wish you well. Blake Jarwin has a very similar skill set, was probably going to be our starter before he got hurt in the first place, and we just move on. We just keep the guy that we already gave a small contract to and get a comp pick out of losing Schultz. That would be my guess

as to what happens. Yeah, I agree with Dave. I don't think Schultz would be back on here and then asked for Blake Jarwin. I would be like, h I'm good with letting him go. But and I've been always a Blake Jarwin fan. But it's just and it's not his fault. You know, he's dealt with injuries and it's unfortunate he hasn't been what you expected him or thought he would be once Jason Witten went away and all that.

But you have to keep certain guys. You cannot go out and start cutting people and save money here and there. You need a tight end you're gonna have to address the position regardless, but by cutting him and saving that little amount of money, you're creating a bigger need on an offense that already has plenty of other needs that you're gonna need to reinforce through the draft and hopefully

some through free agency. So at this point I'm like, yeah, don't touch you just leaving on here because you need somebody there. Yeah, I kind of agree with all that because I personally what I look at it is I think they're comfortable players. I think, quite frankly, if Blake Jarwin had not had the injury, I think he would be having exact same kind of numbers as what you're seeing. Yet we'll be sorry from Blake Dalton Schultz. I don't

think Dalton Schultz. And this is the part that really I don't know, I don't know how other teams look

at him. Do they look at him as just the benefactor of the fact that the quarterback for whatever reason, found some synergy with him, tried to dump it off to him a lot because he wasn't really making the kind of plays often that we're like, oh my gosh, wow, that was a crazy athletic play or like he doesn't really have that thing that jumps out to you this like, oh my gosh, he's a really great player at the position other than his production, which is great, like he's

catching a lot of balls. But I think if you had Blake Jarwin in the same situation, I think Blake Jarwin probably produces in the same way. And that's where I'm like, so give me the cheaper of the two. And if Blake Jarwin's a cheaper So I've been in Jarwin Truther since like twenty sixteen, so I'm with you on that. I think he can make all the same types of plays I do think. I don't think Dalton gets credit for his athleticism, Like he can make plays downfield. I can go make you a cut up of him

making plays down the scene. He had a great catch against Vegas, touchdowns against Atlanta going down the field, shouts out to our friends at Spotrack, Like the resources in this department have come so far over the years that I've done this. You can go look at their projection for his next contract. It's four years, fifty one million. Oh yeah, I ain't paying that, That's what I'm saying.

I don't. I don't think the Cowboys can will even be able to compete honestly knowing that they're knowing their cap situation and the other things that they've got to get done, I don't think. And so that's it hasn't paid off so far, Like they haven't gotten what they thought they would out of Jarwins since they signed him. But that's why you do deals in advance. You're like, Okay, well, this guy's pretty similar, basically the same tight end, and we've got him locked down for half the value of

that contract. Let's just stick with that. I don't think fifty million would be enough to get them a third round comp pick, but it would probably get him a fourth. Yeah. By the way, good for Dalton Schultz if he can LA.

Absolutely I would wish the best for him. But that's just one when you look at all the priorities for the Cowboys, I just don't know if he would be that off five, that far up my priority list when I'm already worried about if I'm talking, if they are actually having conversations about cutting guys like Amari Cooper and Tank Lawrence, then this is way down the priorities. I would not be wanting to cut those guys in favor of trying to get a deal done with Schultz just

doesn't make sense to me completely. And that's I don't I kind of hate these conversations because it makes it sound like I don't think Dalton Schultz is worth it. That's not true at all. I think he's He's had a fantastic two years. Fully in favor of him, Get go, get the bag, dude. I just don't think it's and there's a realistic that it's here now you're like, thank you for your time, you know what you did here, but it's time to move on. And that is that's

that's the model that they've built. You can take issue with it if you want to, but you identify the guys that you need, and not everybody's gonna fit within those that that money constraint, and you say, well, we're going to get a draft pick for you, and we appreciate your time here and best of luck. I mean, hopefully it's not With the Eagles. It starts out like there's always one Domino that's scared. Just wouldn't want to have to root against him. Sorry, well, I just it's

all about Amari Cooper. I mean he starts every conversation. That's where you get your money, right, Yeah, well that's how you get your money. But also, like Cooper and Lamb and then a pretty good third receiver, whoever it is, all of that helped open up the middle for Schultz. You don't put if Cooper's not there, and then it's just Lamb and then no one else that they're really

scared of. So then that they double team him, and then I mean, he's he had a hard time sometimes getting open when he was the second guy, so now he's gonna be the first guy. And then I mean, the worst thing you could do is pay twelve and a half thirteen million for Schultz to keep him. But if you did that, you had to cut Cooper. And then now all of a sudden, you're like, why is Schultz not really that good? Because he's one of the

focal points. And then it's like this other Cedric Wilson's not getting open, right, So it's like, I don't know. I mean, it all starts with a Mari, and I just think that would be the dumbest thing in the world to cut Amari Cooper. I really do preach, because they're gonna do it so they can keep Randy. But was the defense? Was the defense awesome last year? I mean I just relative was the defense awesome? And I don't think it was awesome. I think it was good

at times, it wasn't awesome. So you're gonna keep giving you in years, doesn't matter. I'm gonna be like God that we're pretty awesome. Yeah, well, that's the thing. It's a it's a relative comparison, right compared to the year before, they were awesome. But if you just look at them in the pantheon of all the teams in the NFL, and their defense is I don't know that it was awesome.

It was good, and it certainly was better. So you're gonna keep Randy Gregory so you can keep that same, you know, defense, But you're gonna lose Amri in this. I'm not doing that. I'm keeping Amri. I'm keeping this offense to be great. I need something to be great, and then I'll figure out the defense and let Dan Quinn figure out the defense. He's getting paid a lot more than he did last year. Figure it out even again, the frustrating thing is that they could accomplish both of

those goals. They could push Amar's money back to free up cap space to keep other guys, and they just haven't shown a willingness to touch his money. They'll touch everybody else's money, yeah, every even like guys who, in my opinion, or not living up to their contract nearly as well as a Marir, But they don't want to

touch his money. And I said that last week on the show, and I said, you know the way to do that with a mari and give him twenty million and now you're only going to count about ten or twelve this year, But that does push it up almost twenty eight thirty million next year, So that doesn't necessarily make sense. I mean, you're hoping that the NFL TV contracts come in and push the cap up and all

that kind of stuff. But question, and you know, I don't know many things about when it comes to contracts and things like that, but when you're talking about restructuring a player's contract, is that something that the player and his agent have to be an agreement with prior or the Cowboys can just do it and socause it's within in some cases, the player has to if you're going to cut his contract, like we're gonna pay you less money. Yeah,

that is a separate negotiation. It really doesn't happen that often because players are like, no, screw, you can cut me. But a lot of the cowboys build their contrac tracks. When I say restructure, you can convert their salary into a bonus, which they immediately get. It reduces their cap hit and pushes it into the future, which makes them harder to cut later, but gives you instant relief. And you can do that with a click of a button.

It's usually designed into these contracts where you email the agent and say, we're triggering this today. We're not asking, we're just doing it. You know, Amari's check for twelve million will be in the mail by the end of the week. Correct me if I'm wrong. I want to say Jeff Kavanaugh tweeted this, but someone tweeted is you responded to it where basically, if you if they triggered right now, they'd have like sixty six million dollars available to them, which you know I mean, and and a

lot of it we talked about it last week. A lot of it is stuff where you're like, I mean, yeah, if you push some money forward, really the only contract you'd probably be really concerned about doing that with Zeke, just because you know, is that the amount of money you're paying to a running back with that level of production, is that work going through the whole contract all the others.

You could probably make a case to say, I don't know if I'm really against them pushing money forward on these because a lot of them are gonna come do anyway in the next year or two. I would be nervous about doing it with Tank. How many years he got left on his deal, two or three? Two or three? And the injury history makes you nervous. I mean you could, but I don't think it kills you. I guess you

just you just have to wait. You don't think it kills you until he tears his labor from in August, and so you're not getting anything for a guy that is killing your cap now and can't be cut later. I mean, you just you got to weigh all that stuff. You think He's at a point now where you're worried every year is gonna be an injury for Tank. I hate to dog the guy, but the results are what

they are. I mean, yeah, yes he has and it's a testament to his toughness that he hasn't missed more time honestly, because like he's played He played all of eighteen with like his shoulder just screwed up, you know like that. I mean, he's played through a lot of stuff, and he's also missed time. But yes, the accumulation of

injuries is significant. That it's it would always be in the back of my mind that one makes more sense in two part ways with than Amari to me, just because especially if you're gonna resign Randy, right yeah, I mean yeah, if you resign Randy and then whatever you do with Micah, you know, whatever that is that I

could see that being. I won't be surprised if the Cowboys tried to talk to Tank and his people about a pay cut, and I won't be surprised at all if Tank and his people are like, nah, I'm good. He just find hitting the open market if that's what you want to do, right Yeah. So I think that's probably the way, Like it's it. I use the term fun facetiously, but like I think it's I think they're gonna it's gonna get a little chaotic here over the

next like five six weeks. Yeah, crazy, because it feels like it was just yesterday when we were having the press conference and Tank signing that contract and all that. It's like NFL, change is fast. If comes at you fast, change is really fast. All right, appreciate you guys joining us. We had a good conversation today. Next week we'll get back to you. Have more conversation till then. For Nick Even,

Dave helm and Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eielton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.