Cowboys Break: Upgrades on Defense

episode number thirteen. Welcome to another edition of The break Back from the s WBC Mortgage Studios at the Star. It is our final episode before we take a little break before training camp. Today, the Cowboys are completing their final, the final week worth of work in the offseason. They have their second day of a three day mini camp. They'll finish that up tomorrow. How's everybody doing today? Fantastic?

So interesting. This is like I feel like I'm in like I'm a parent in in twenty nineteen and I'm talking and everybody was kind of like on new devices. Sorry, I'm promoting our show on social media. I'm not saying it was bad. I'm just saying I'm very used to that becauscope for later today. Yeah, Sorry, we're trying to promote other show is gonna go already, it's our final show. We want to hear from you guys too throughout the show.

If you guys have a chance to give us a call or you want to hit hit us on email, you're gonna get a call or Twitter. Yeah, we're gonna try to get a quality called email. Yeah email I got I went way back, I went way back. Yeah, hit us on Twitter at Cowboys break Amber can pick up some of those if you want to call us numbers eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven.

We're gonna be talking about defense today. Last week we started talking about changes on this team, we specifically talked about the offense. Today we talk about the defense, where there were quite a few more changes I think then then on the offense, but a similar story overall, not a lot of positions to be had, not a lot of opportunity for new guys coming in. I guess let's start first with just kind of talking about overall, what were your thoughts of this defense coming out of last year?

They played far better than they were expected to play. What were your thoughts going into the offseason next to what the Cowboys really need? To do with this unit. Well, I think they were pretty good and then until they weren't. I mean in the Rams game. It's really hard. It's way to put it. The Rams game just kind of messes up everything because it's the last game of the year and you're like, well, you know, they couldn't run

the ball and they couldn't stop the run. Those are the two things that you're supposed to do in any level of football, and so it's hard to think about how the season was successful, which it was, but those are the two things that kind of carry over this team and the cloud that hangs over them. So defensively, you think defensive tackle, they got to get better there. They can't get you know, pushed off the ball, and you know they gotta get they gotta get more takeaways.

I mean, as good as Byron Jones was, they've got to get more takeaways and get some interceptions and plays like that. So pretty good, but it wasn't good enough at the end. Everything you just said's right, But I try not to overreact to the last game of the year, and you know, you gotta look at the whole picture. My main thing was like, all right, that was awesome. Signed tank and maintain that momentum and not turn this

into like a Dez Bryant situation, which they didn't. And you know which, DeMarcus isn't going through the off season program. You needed surgery. I'm curious to see how he comes back from that, what his training camp looks like, and how quickly he can be ready. But my big thing was they're gonna let this fall apart after all the good work they did, and I don't think they did, so it gives me a pretty favorable impression to this point. Yes, well yeah, I didn't know if she was going to

make a point there too. But but I'm gonna argue with you a little bit on that because I understand, like, well, you don't want to look at the last game and all that, but this team hasn't taken that next level. They haven't taken that step, and at some point you've got to do that, Like you you can't just just keep well, this is a good year divisional around and lost again. I mean like you've got to do something there.

So yes, it was good until they got a team that was just better than them and and they I mean again, and step number one to that was making like again getting to Marcus Arms back fold all of you know, like I said, like, you're right, they did, they did need to improve it, but you have to keep what you had in tact before you can build on it, right, I mean, And I was convinced that the law was going to be Like I was convinced we would be sitting here in June, it's the second

day of mini camp, and we would be writing about whether or not he was here. That's what I was thinking in February. So that's a big first step. They trade for Robert Quinn, even with Randy Gregory suspended, I feel like they made a significant addition that makes their defense better. And then what they spend their first pick in the draft on. You know, as much as we might have wanted a safety, they clearly agree with you because they're like, we need to beef up this d line.

We need a defensive tackle who can pressure the quarterback and also preferably defend the run better, free up late and Vandrueshi and Jalen Smith to make plays. And they did that by drafting Tristan hill Um. So yeah, and hopefully that does help just safety, because when you start pressuring in the quarterback. Hopefully that would allow for more

opportunities for them to take away the band. Yesterday, we're looking at OTAs at the very end of practice and this was a Cooper rush pass and it wasn't one of his better days at all yesterday. But that White, Mike White, Hey, he threw a Yeah, he wasn't. He

only threw one three. But the last pick was the one that Donovan Wilson covered a lot of ground, runs over there, makes a nice play, and it's like this, this guy's it's gonna be hard for me to think that he doesn't work his way into this this mix. Just just looking at him, just the plays he made in college, big time hitter. I just I feel like he's kind of your next Gave Frasier type guy comes right in. I want to get to some of those details,

but I want to take you back for second. Nick, you talked about that final game of the season, Dave, you said you don't want to overreact that. How much does the Colts game factor into that? Because really, when I look at it, you look at really that would be the last four or five weeks of the season.

You had two games where this defense got completely overpowered, and that was what to me was more of a more of a signal that something was maybe not like, maybe there was something that was being figured out about this defense far more than just the final game. What are your thoughts there? That was the game where they walked out with like, oh no, that was at home. Marlon Mack just bullied them and Andrew Luck didn't even need to do anything. Yeah, and the Cowboys offense didn't

score point. That was That was the game they got dominated. That was the first time all season they got dominated. I think they had. They walked out with the hard hats on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good timing, which actually could time. That's a that's a great place to start. And I mean, you don't want to overact overreact to the Rams game, but you still have to take it

into account. Obsolete. Give up two hundred rushing yards in the NFL, that's that's eyebrow raising in the playoffs, especial playoffs. Um so back up, running back, most of that are good. Part of that. To see that play again, that last play they just showed, Sorry about that. The last play they just showed Daniel Ross just gets not to the ground, like really, for no reason that's like, Okay, we gotta get better. There are defensive tackle rotations, gotta get better.

He had a nice I mean, he was surprisingly good at times. But yes, and I think I think that's, uh, that's a great way to put it in my opinion, is surprisingly good the Cowboys have. They drafted, identified developed, and retained their best pass rusher since to Marcus Ware. He to Marcus Lawrence is awesome. If you listen to this show ever, you know how I feel about him. I don't think the Cowboys pass rush slash slash defensive

line as a whole is there. It's probably as good as it's been since where No, it's definitely as good as it's been since Ware retired. But it's not. It's not this elite unit that calls to mind the twenty fifteen Broncos or even you know, the Philly lines from a few years ago, you know, when Cox was even younger and Benny Logan was still really good, Vinny Curry.

They just like waves on waves of good guys. Like It's not that the defensive tackle position needs to be upgraded, even with Tristan Hill here, I'm not convinced it's elite. I thought it was great that they brought in Robert Quinn. Be even better if Randy Gregory could work his way back from this suspension. But that's where it starts for me, the defensive line as a whole. So that was actually upgrading.

That was a question I was going to ask, and maybe it changed your answer changes a little bit when I when I make asked this question. But so between going out of the season, when the season was done, you get to February, what did you think was the position of greatest need on the Dallas defense? Safety is one that had a lot of people threw out obviously, defensive tackle. Where do you think that that Going into the offseason, this team felt like they had to be

most active in trying to upgrade. I think they answered the question themselves. I mean they felt like it was a defense of tackle, uh not not safety. And they showed that because they got one of each Covington and Alca, two guys that they're like, you know, hopefully they'll fit in here. But they didn't break the bank on either one of them. And then when it came down to it to get Thornhill was sitting there and they took Tristan Hill I mean, I think they just kind of

showed to answer your question where did they thought? But was that more about the player or was that more about the position of need? Position? I think okay, yeah, I mean I think it was position. I do. And from what you know we've heard is um Christopher Shard, you know kind of any he kind of I think it's position because he talked about the position of what they have and said, hey, sound like you know Xavier Woods, this guy's gonna be good. I think I'm excited about him.

I don't know if anyone was saying the same about the defensive tackles in there, you know, to that level. So and and that speaks volumes for a coach, because coaches are greedy. They want their players. They want to look they want to look good, so they'll get good players. And he was like, listen, this will be a better move for us. And so I thought that was that that just kind of showed the position of need was

defensive tackle. Do you think it would have been the same if the safety that they were looking at was a better replacement for Jeff Heath So if Abrams, Yeah, that's a tricky question because when you're drafting fifty eight, it's much less likely you're gonna get in him. I mean, you want you want guys who can start with your first three picks. I always say, but when you drop down a fifty eight, as opposed to let's say, you know, if they had picked twenty seven, I think that's where

Abram was picked. The Raiders used our Cowboys pick on him. It's less likely you're going to get a guy that is ready to beat out of what three year incumbent starter. But yeah, I mean if somehow if Jonathan Abram is there, yeah, I think maybe that changes their tune. But I think that you can say that about seven or eight other positions, you know. I think you can say that about an offensive tackle, a tight end, a wide receiver. You know that they have graded high that falls down there as well.

So to me, it's always, you know, best player available, and if it's close, then it goes the best available need. And I think that I think they showed that tackle was a bigger need there. As Amber said, you get a good tackle, your your safeties will look better. Well, And I might sound stupid saying this, but I don't care. This is just my perspective on things to me, when you start talking about overall versus specific games like the Rams game the Colt game, I personally I'm satisfied with

what the defense did last year. Obviously not in those games, but those are the games where you need the offense to play their part and pick it up, do what you need to do. And there were instances games where the defense was doing all they could and then the offense get to the ball and they don't really produce anything. And to me, that obviously plays into the role of how tied your defense gets and how they're gonna keep

performing throughout the game. But when you have a bad day, that's when you need your teammates from the other side to be able to contribute and step in, and they, from what I remember, weren't able to do that. I think that's probably accurately in the Colts game. I think I have a little different opinion in the Rams game because I felt like the offense kind of got it going. It reminded me a lot of that again that playoff

game against Green Bay. Yeah, they started offense started slow, but they kind of got themselves back into position to be in that game a little bit. And you know, the fateful moment was that, you know that that conversion.

I think they're showing the play right now where where Jeff Heath was basically out of position and they were able to convert and game over right, And if they get the ball back right there, the offense has an opportunity to then be able to make a play or make a few plays, and they're they're right there in the game right. So I just think that I don't know if I would say the offense was completely inept in that game like they were in the Colts game

and the offense was horrible. No, it was their worst game of the year, I agree, But the thing about it is they only ran for forty seven yards in that Rams game, and that middle stretch that had nice drive early, they had nice you know, scramble drive late there. But in between, there wasn't a whole lot going on. It picks up towards the end somehow, when Dak or

the offense is starting to feel that pressure. It's like the light bulb comes on and all that sudden they're playing great, but then there's just not enough time on the clock to do anything to make it happen. Was it me? Xavier Woods looked like he had three really bad plays in that I mean, like he didn't have I don't look at Xavier Woods just having a bad season or anything like that, but just some of those plays right there. That wasn't his best game. We've said

Laton too, all of them. Yeah, I don't think that had a good game. Yeah, in that game, Yeah, it was bad. It was a bad performance all the way. I mean, you know they deserve all yeah, good yeah, Sue and even no, actually Donald didn't have a good game. Just wait, they had you know, they had amazing seasons and they deserved all credit in the world. Uh Leyton

and Jalen were both bad in that game. Everybody was. Um. The best thing that came out of that game, I think, I mean is the fact that two of your two rookies stepped up and really did you know, some some great things in that game. Number one, Michael Gallup had a couple of nice plays there. You kind of see that, you know, he I think he led the team in receiving yards. But more importantly, Connor Williams said, all right, you know, you got the best in the world right here,

and we're not giving you a ton of help. And he played really really well, and not because he's a rookie. He just played well against the best defensive player in all of football. Um, Aaron Donald, I mean it wasn't like well for I think there was one play maybe he got called for holding, but he won that that battle. He had like one tackle in one hurry like he I mean, yeah, Sue had the better game handled Zue Martin. Yeah. I was a little bit concerning there, but but I mean,

here's your rookie that is he big enough? Can he make this transition? And with all the world watching, he did a really nice job. So so that was a good move for him. Do you think, and I don't want to go too far down this hole, but do you think that having a defense that played so well throughout most of the season be so thoroughly dominated in that game? Do you give any any part of that

to maybe coaching more so than the players. And the reason why I say that is because you're facing a guy that is notoriously known as a great offensive mind. And was he just better to out was he better at out scheming coming up with better opportunities to take advantage of this defense than what the defense could counter with whatever coaching decisions they were. I mean, he kept his job, you know, their offensive coordinator, So yeah, I mean definitely was. I mean, you can't say that about

the Cowboys guy. He didn't keep his job. Yeah, I think coaching plays a part of it if it. If they didn't, then they wouldn't have made that I was talking about the flip side. I was talking more a a Cowboys defense and the Rams offense. Okay, I thought you're talking about the offensive coase we're talking, you know,

talking about the defense again and again. I'm trying to figure out, is that is what we saw in that game in the Colts game and aberration or is it really and and if and if you would put it more on coaching, then maybe it was. Maybe it's something that hey, they just that was just one of those games. They just got out schemed. And it happens. That happens, and it happens to be because when you think about it, I mean, clearly their talent level didn't go down. They're

they're good players. So maybe that's where you stand from coaching and what they were doing and they weren't able to match up what the Rams were doing there offensively that's I mean, it's a and then we gave the Rams so much credit all last year for keeping it simple but unpredictable, and yeah, I mean there's definitely an element of that, but again, like I think you're kind

of falling into that trap of overreacting. Basically, it was the last game we saw and for the third time, Yeah, they were terrible, but I mean Sean Payton's pretty awesome coach too. Thirteen points, and it's like, I look at the whole body of work like they had. They probably had. They had like four really incredible games and three kind of lousy ones and then the rest it was somewhere

in between. And that's that's about right. That it comes down to the defensive tackle position, because and those games they were they were blown off the ball running. We know that their their secondary is pretty good, their linebackers are good, but it was just too easy for the Colts and the Rams to run the ball, and that's what opens up everything, and that's what's going to be harder for to get your offense and rhythm and all

that kind of stuff. So the Colts was just the worst game we've seen on both sides of the ball. But sorry, go ahead, but I don't. I don't remember. This is bad, which well to go to go back a minute, and yeah, I mean the Cowboys clearly they set the agenda like defensive tackle, and it's hard. It's hard to argue with the performance we saw in both of those games, just giving up way too many rushing yards.

And I would I mean, if you if you look at the roster, it's so obviously safety and defensive tackle position. When you're just like, all right, where where are we deficient in talent? It's those two positions, I think, and I think most people would agree. Having said that, as good as you might feel about defensive tackle, and it does I mean Tristan Hill, I think Christian Covington's an underrated signing, honestly, like he had a pretty good career

in Houston. Reminds me a lot of Terrell McClain, who, again, like didn't really knew nobody was very excited when he signed on and he wound up being pretty useful. Having said all of that, I do I like, are there enough playmakers on the back end of this defense? Are there? I mean, Byron Jones was great last year. He doesn't get picks Cheeto has gotten a pick each in the season finale of both of his seasons. Jeff Heath is your best ballhawk and everybody in the world wants to

get rid of him. Xavier Woods has shown flashes of it, but it hadn't been there on a consistent basis. How many career interceptions does he have? No, Xavier Woods, not a not a lot. For I think that might even be high, um, And that's that's part of it is you can have all the talent in the world, like takeaways or a big part of it. And basically, for the entire time that I've covered this team, they have not had a playmaker who can get takeaways, and I

wonder about that. In order for them to take the next step this year, they're gonna need Byron Jones, They're gonna need Xavier Woods, The're gonna need Cheat Obey, They're gonna need all those guys to start getting their hands on the ball and actually turning the ball over. And in order for them to turn it, I would love where to be. Jordan Lewis, I'd a good friend. He's gonna get It's gonna get as many opportunities, but I would love where to be keeping the way he did yesterday.

I'm well, I'm excited about him. And a lot of it's because Byron can't practice. I understand that, but they're putting him outside and he's holding his own against Cooper and anybody else that wants some So that's really in uraging to see. Um. Parts of me want to get excited from yesterday's practice, and then we remember who were the players and yeah, and they're you know, they're purposefully mixing and matching. So yeah, like I try not to overreact to it too, but I mean, it's Amari Cooper.

I don't care who's throwing him the ball or what. Jordan Lewis has looked pretty solid in every practice that we've seen. There was a play yesterday, would you It was kind of refreshing because you're like, oh, it's just practice, it's mini camp. Yeah, tell that Sean Lee. Like Sean Lee was just berating this poor official who you know, probably works Conference USA or something like that. Maybe I if that, but I'm just saying it was late in the game and it was a deep ball to Cooper.

It was Cooper and Jordan and Jordan. I thought Jordan the great play. It was a BS call. It was not a flag, and they called pass interference on like the two yard line, which I guess. I guess Jason did one review that, you know, I guess we're not We're not there yet, and uh Sean Lee I thought was just gonna lose it right there, and it's like, well, it's just practice. But then you're like, that's okay. At

least you know they're getting into it. And I actually I saw Jordan in the locker room after that, and I was like, man, you know, these refs are getting paid like fifty bucks to be here, like you really, like, give this guy a break. I mean, you're killing him over an off season flag. Like he's not getting paid enough to be putting up with that. But I was kidding, yeah,

and you're right. But then you know, then again Jordan lois like, this is my chief trying to him after they got the ball, they got down there and Dak is that when Dak was waiting waiting and then he got a Randall Cobb in the corner on a touchdown. I mean, it was really nice play and design and it's one of those where you know, you can't do this with a lot of offensive lines. But but this Cowboy offensive line can can hold up, you know, long

enough for a play like that to develop. And he you know, Cobb was crafty and you know, and you know you want to be like, wow, you know they don't they have never had that before, but they have. I mean, Beasley easily did those kind of things, and I think Cobb's going to be able to do that. Maybe better down the field, but it's going to be comparable across the middle. Let's take our first break. When we come back, I'll ask the question, what is the

greatest strength of this defense. It's the linebackers or is the defensive ends? With the addition of Robert Quinn. We'll talk about that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com radal Well. A player could look good on paper, it's when he's out on the field that you really find out what he's made of. That's why the Cowboys rely on more than just stats and scouting reports when building their team. When picking a tractor, it's why you should rely on more than just specs

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the Cowboys work. That's pretty cool. Anyway. Um, let's talk a little bit about defense. We have. We've kind of talked about the general big topic things I want to talk to some about the strengths of this defense. I think the two strengths are pretty obvious. I think it's lineback, or I think is defensive end with the addition of Robert Quinn. If you had to choose which one would be the greatest strength of them, which one would you say? It is defensive end, not a linebacker easily for me,

defensive end. A conversation on this, how many tell me? Why? Because how many? First of all, how many teams have like three Pro Bowl caliber players, like I mean, and now we know for sure Sean Lee is gonna play some Sam, So you've got a Pro Bowl caliber player at all three positions. And you know, I feel weird even saying this, because I'm the guy that's like, well, physicality is being taken out of the NFL. Linebacker is kind of like the running back of the defense. It's

like it's losing its place. But having seen the athleticism of these two young guys and the plays that it allows them to make and the tone that it allows them to set was incredible last year. And you know I said there aren't enough playmakers on this defense. Well, the probably the closest thing that they have to that in the back seven is Jalen and Layton. I mean they both of them made plays, takeaways and tackles that single handedly turned games. They're just they're impressive and they

appear to be durable. Lock knock on Wood and I just I think it's a hell of a strength on this defense. Amber, tell me why you would say defensive end. Well, what demark well, you got Robert Quinn here now added hoping that he's able to play at a high level, and what he's shown here during this little practices has been promising. Now when you add that to DeMarcus Lawrence and the line Anton Woods, Malee Collins, they were able to do things as well that we're good for the defense.

So having those main guys there, Lawrence and Robert Quinn creating pressure allowing not just for themselves, but aligning opportunities for everybody else on the line, to me, that's kind of where it all starts. And being able to put the pressure in it plays into the role what the linebackers are doing back there and creating opportunities for them as well. I mean they were able to play great. Layton made some plays on his own where he basically

dry guys. Remember last year in certain plays where he just looked absolutely amazing and he would do certain things all on his own. But to me, that all starts with the line and what the Marcus Lawrence was able to do and the rest of the line. Yeah, I mean, I think that you've got it. From a potential standpoint. I think the linebackers have a little bit more upside because they're young and they're going to grow into that.

But I think as far as production goes, I think Quinn, the combination of Quinn and Lawrence and then you got Gregory as well, I think those guys are the strength. And what she said, I think it all starts with the pass rush and then the linebackers can feed off of that. Now they did make plays on their own, and it's a It's a close second to me. I think if if a team it was an expansion team, they would take the linebackers because of their youth and

all that. But I think as it stands right now, I go with the guys that I've done it a little bit more. And the Sean Lee part's a factor in there too, because now you're talking about three guys, but those three versus is Gregory Quinn and d Law. I mean, I'm not, like, how are you including Gregory in this right now? I mean, I can't count on him. He's not on the roster right well, you counted on Sean Lee. He Sean Lee played games last year, I mean he was, but he's not on the roster. He's

not here. I think that's an important thing to take into account. In my opion, it is. It is an important thing. But the Cowboys seem confident that he's gonna be and they know something. I guess I would imagine I assume they know more than we do. It certainly seems like they know something the way they keep talking about it. I would love to see him. I hope he rolls up in Oxnard, but I'm not counting on

him as part of the pass rush right now. About a Hyder, yeah absolutely, I think he might, you know, the factor into this, and I think they they've got some some good depth there. But it starts to me it all comes down to Quinn. You know, is Quinn the type of guy that he was? Kenny Ken, Marion Ellie and Leon Let get that out of him again, because if you can, then that's gonna be good. But who would you say has been the best defensive end

that's lined up opposite DeMarcus Lawrence in his career. I mean, since he's been really good. I mean Greg Hardy. I hate to even bring him up, but Greig Hardy. Yeah, Okay, Well, the reason I'm asking is because then I want you

to make the comparison. Is this now the best guy that he will have had on the opposite side, Because I think that makes a difference when you have a guy as dominant as DeMarcus Lawrence has been at the defensive end position, having another guy on the opposite side who was equally dominant or can even get closer that range forces defense is to make some really really interesting decisions and that may either make more opportunities for DeMarcus,

more opportunities for Quinn on more opportunities for those defensive tackles. You know what I like about this situation is you got two pass rushers that play naturally play the position that they're going to play. It's not like they drafted a guy who really likes the play on the left side, but he's gonna have to play right because d laws there. Quinn lines up on the right. He goes up against these left tackles all day long. Law lines up on

the left, goes up against these right tackles. It's perfect for what they both want to do and do well. And I think it's it's gonna fit. I think the combination it's gonna be really good. Yeah, I completely agree with that. For the record, I do this is as good as the defensive end position has been in my time here. And that's before Gregory comes back again. You know, I did a story on Carrie Hyder last week. I didn't realize, you know, me and Brian brought us watching

tape of him. We thought there was a chance they brought him in here to be an under tackle, and maybe they would have if they hadn't drafted Tristan Hill, but they did. So they've got him playing left end now and that's where he easily had the best season of his career in twenty sixteen. Eight sacks for Detroit. Just I mean, that's that's better than anybody on this roster other than Quinn Law Quinn too, but none of the other guy. I mean, Tyron Crawford has never gotten

that high. Gregory never got that high. Malik had five and a half, I think, so if he can get back to that, that's awfully enticing. I like his odds to make this roster as part of that rotation for sure, if my memory starts correct. When he did that, he had talent on the other side. Yeah, so that that's something to consider here, is that when you have the opposite a guy on the opposite side, it really does

help out everybody on the defensive line. I mean, would Robert Mathis have had a great career for the Colts if you didn't play again? You know, with Dwight Freeney for smonging that that stuff matters. Anthony Spencer finally figured it out, did the same thing. Where had Greg Ellis. I mean, for every great defensive end you can probably find in most of their years when they had greatness, they had somebody that was pretty good on the opposite side.

And I'm not saying they they probably had something to do with that, but it kind of goes hand in hand. Two is better than one. Yeah, I still can't which everything we just said is right, But those two freakazoids that linebacker, they're impressive. Man. Here's the good thing. And I actually agree with you for the record, Clinton. Well, the good thing about these debates like that is that you get them both. Yeah, you know, this isn't like a quarterback we should we play this one or this one.

It's like they're both going to be good. Just proved me wrong, prove me wrong. This is a This is a point that I wanted to make at the back end of the last segment, kind of going back to my thing about takeaways, though, is like I don't know realistically how much better you can expect them to be, And maybe maybe I don't set my expectations high enough. I mean, they were they were seventh in total defense and sixth and scoring. That's pretty damn good. I'm obviously

they could be number one, but injuries and schemes. I mean, you know, great pass rushers will only average like half a sack per game. Like, so I think about that and I'm like, I don't care about them being statistically that much better. I want them to get the ball back more like That's what I that would be the jump, you know, like that's what great defenses do on In addition to that, what we've heard of of Chris Shard Plea in the draft room when they were trying to

make a decision between defensive tackle and safety. Part of that plea was, look, you give me a better pass rush. If our pass rush is better, I feel confident at the back end will be also better. So maybe that's the point they go out and they get a Robert Quinn, they drafted Tristan Hill. They feel like they have some guys that can really get after the passer, even more than they were able to do last year. And maybe that gets Byron Jones those interceptions that maybe he didn't

get before. Again, quarterbacks under pressure, he's gonna make more bad decisions Aaron throws that may create more easy opportunities for them to get turnover. Absolutely, I'm not trying to say that I know something Marinelli doesn't or anything like that, but I feel like sometimes they get these pass rushers in the center of the defense. These you know, even though one technique they can get up the field or a three technique, which is great, but those guys also

get gashed out of the way. And that's what If I remember the Colts game, I just remember these guys getting up the field, schemed out of the way, and then all of a sudden, it's just these gaping holes. So the Tristan Hill highlights that I remember that he was just a nightmare for the center. He was all over the quarterback. But I didn't see a lot of the run defense in him that plays and I don't,

I don't. I'll defer to you guys. He watched a lot more tape, but I just remember a little bit more pass rushing plays and I want those guys that stay home eat up those double teams. And in second nine, well, I just Covington is a name that I've got my eye and for that purpose. Yeah, so I was gonna throw out Covington, But I also was going to ask this question, what do you think about Antoine? Was obviously last year he was another one of those guys that

was surprisingly good, was he? But but I think in some of those instances where you were getting pushed out of the way, he was a part of that. Do you think he's increased his it will be better this year, so he's not going to be pushed around like that in those instances throwing a caveat which you know excuses, I get it, nobody wants to hear him. He hurt the shoulder that he had surgery on. He hurt it during the Rams game, so I'm sure that sucked for him.

He was trying to that's like, yeah, he doesn't look the same as he did last year. He's got a different bad or good. Um, well, I don't know. You just know what it looks like right now. Well for the beach he better, But for playing football, I don't know. I mean, I'm just saying he looks he looks slimmer, but I mean, is that good in this situation. I'm not questioned. Is he stronger. We'll find out. Well, he's so, he had surgery, he's working his way back. He's not

part of these practices. But we actually talked to him yesterday. I loved his response. It wasn't anything new, but I just love his attitude because I'm I've said it a couple of times, no disrespect toward the guy, But I don't consider his job status as being that safe, you know, like he's he's not this untouchable all pro starter that's definitely gonna be in the lineup or necessarily even have a job at the end of training camp, in my opinion, And I asked him about that. I was like, you know,

you were this guy a year ago. It doesn't seem like it because you had such a good season, but like, you know, you were trying to lose weight so you could catch somebody's attention and make the team. And he was like, yeah, like you know, my mindset doesn't change. Like people in this locker room know me a little bit better now. But there's like three guys here that are doing right now trying to do what I did

last year. Like there's somebody here who's hungry, who's trying to drop weight and get in shape and take my job. Like that's the name of the game this league. They're always, I think he was like, they're always trying to find your replacement always, and I recognize that, and I know I was like, yeah, well, I like your attitude at least you know, you don't want to be and I say this with respect to him, but you don't want

to be lucky Whitehead. You know, because a guy that just kind of oh, he comes in, he does some good things like wow, this is great, and then you know, and he loved the camera, love doing all the fun things and because his personality is great, but like if you don't keep it going and you care too much about this other stuff, then you're not going to be around. And so I love that that answer, Well that was kind of my thing too, as I was like, I like, I like that, you know this, Like I like that

you understand what it's going to take. Joe Looney's on the team because he's a really good versatile center guard. That's why he's on the team. All this other stuff, National Doughnut Day, all this stuff, that's great. Ha ha. He's on the team because he's a really good player and he's worked his butt off to do that. And Antoine Woods, I think sees that and yeah, you know

you can be We did a play. We'll show it um you know later this summer on our series of Tale of the Tape where Brian brought us sits down with these players and and does you know they go through a play on the tape. It was really good. And the one for Jalen Smith he makes it runs down to Shaun Watson and it makes a great play.

But Antoine Woods is right there running stride for stride too, and it's like this guy that size can make a play like that, he can play ten years in this league if he can, If he can play like that. So he's got he's got a lot of upside too. Going back to what Dave said, I think defensive tackle position probably is a position of anyone on this defense that what we think right now can drastically change by the time you get to week one of the NFL season.

Who knows who will be the starter, who knows will be in the who will be in the rotation. You got a couple of guys in there, the Vets who were only one year left under deals, and you got a lot of guys that are coming in. Hell's the only guy on this team with multiple years on his deal. Yep,

that's exactly. So defensive tackle is a position that that we'll be watching very very close to when we get out to Oxnard, because it is a position that could change quite a bit as we go through those practices. I guarantee you, before we went to training camp, we'd never said Antoine's name on this show, right, Or if we did, it was because me and Nick were looking at the roster like Antoine Woods is here, like he you know, he got here in May eighteenth fix. Yeah, exactly.

So I'm just I'm glad that it wasn't just because of Travis Frederick's condition. You know, we didn't know it back then, and the way that he was beating Travis Fredrick was like that was what caught everyone's eyes and started hearing, Oh, who's this guy Antoine Woods. But then later on you find out, oh, Travis is dealing with this, and then you started questioning it, well, how good is he? Actually? Like is he? But he was able to show it

throughout the season and show it up. But when you start talking about the line, a lot of these guys, hopefully they're able to come back healthy because you had plenty of injuries. They are guys that were playing throughout injuries. So we'll see at what level they come back. That's probably the biggest thing. I don't you know, on paper, this defense looks a lot better than it was last year, But there's a lot of guys dealing with stuff, some that aren't serious. But I mean, you know Byron Jones

is he's aiming to come back at training camp. We don't know. DeMarcus is kind of the same. I don't expect we'll see a ton of him until the season. Yeah, and in Oxnard Layton is working his way back this week, but he's dealing with a pelvic issue. I feel like I'm forgetting somebody to antoine. There you go, Yeah, so what how many starters did I just name for? You? Had my league calling he's always dealing with which actually, he's been healthy so far this spring and he's looked good,

he says. But last year it was like back to back one of the it was like switch legs. He's had a hard time staying. You guys would all worry about Layton from standpoint of health because last year there were a lot of just little things. It seemed like to me like it was always something that seemed like he was kind of nursing and and now you talk about the pelvic issue he has. Are you at all concerned about even a little bit? He he heard his like growing in training camp and it held him out

for a while. My memory suck, Like what else happened? I thought during the season he had a some kind of foot or something. Well, yeah, there's a time where he was kind of limping off the fat. I mean, you know, you get in a car right forty times a game. I mean that's what happens. I mean, these middle linebackers, it's we kind of you know, joke about the Sean Lee thing unfairly really, but I mean all those linebackers the best in the league. I mean, that's

what separates you from being an All Pro. Linebackers are being just to go. The guys that are just durable. Yeah, and you know, I'm sure you know, I know Luke Keekley seems like he stays hurt a lot too. You know, it's hard. I mean, linebacker is a hard position to play and stay healthy. It's it's the running back of the defense, like you just get brutalized. That's I mean. I saw Navarro Bowman just retired with the Niners a couple of days ago and say like he was incredible

for like, I don't know, three years. He was it only three years, that's exactly. He was in the same draft to class as lead. I don't know, was he as good. I'm just well, I'm talking his peak, like you know, when him and Willis were there and they were just unreal, like amazing. It couldn't have been longer

than like four years because then he started dealing with injuries. Obviously, you know, the most as good as he was, like the thing, he's going to be associated with for the rest of his life is blowing his knee out in that playoff game. So it's it's a tough position to play. It just is. But remember him having any major I need to see, and it was anything major it was. It was just those kind of things where you know, some players they never missed games, but it's always kind

of these little nagging things. And it's just kind of though he was on that rehab thing, like because I would be trying to get him to do the show No Last and he would spend hours getting rehab, getting massages, this treatment, that treat didn't want He just didn't want to talk to you. That's all. Watching on the show, I realized why he didn't want to do it. He was really terrible. It wasn't very comfortable, It wasn't very

Maybe he'll be better this year. I need to see a larger sample size of him being hurt before I think he's got an injury because he played well, you know, in all those games. So yeah, I think that's the nature of the position. And if I remember, you know, even back to Brady James, I think there was time so they put Brady James on Wednesdays where he was at.

I mean that's just the position. I mean, wasn't Kevin Burnett kind of like that when that his like he didn't miss a lot of games, but he was always had something that he was nursing because he was always getting banged up. All right, let's take our final break and we come back. Let's get some questions. Eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven is our numbered again? Eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. Will also take questions on Twitter at Cowboys Break.

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This is the break Life on the SWBC Morts videos. At the start, we've been talking about the defense. Who want to get some questions and comments from you guys? Call us at eighty two two nine seven. You can also hit us on Twitter at Cowboys Break and But let's start with some questions from Twitter. What do you have? Well? I see some people wondering if we're expecting to see any more player editions before training camp at some big position. Somebody asked me about that on Twitter a week or

two ago. And typically if they do that, they do they They have been known to like switch it up when all of this is over, like nine OTA's three day mini camp. You watch the tape, you're you're do an honest assessment and if there's somebody they're not thrilled about.

I remember, I think our guy Ryan Williams. You remember, you know, the running, you know, the his hype train wasn't as big as the Kristen Michael hype train, but he had some hype, and they just like unceremoniously cut him like two days before we left for Oxnard and brought somebody else in. So they could, I mean, didn't they worked out a guy yesterday after practice fullback. I

just think I don't think so, yes, they could. It's just not going to be anything that right, it won't be anybody in sexy If that's it ain't gonna be. Is there a sexy player? Is there anybody out there that's still a free agent at any position the Cowboys could actually use that would be worth picking up? I you know, I we already said I would have gone after Gerald McCoy. They didn't. I can't think of a ton of other you know, Ziggy Ansa signed forgot where

he signed. Zig Ziggy is with Seattle. McCoy. McCoy is in Carolina also went to Seattle as in Seattle. McCoy's in Carolina. Sue is in Tampa. Eric Berry, They're not going to do that. They're sorry, that ain't happening. I suspect here in the next few months, we're probably gonna hear that Eric Berry is doing a press conference or retire. It's what I would say, what I would guess would

not surprise me. Um other than that, Yeah, I mean, you know, maybe, you know, if if one of these wide receivers just didn't impress him or something like that, maybe they might bring in a guy. You know, Lance Lenore joined late a couple of years ago. But it ain't ain't gonna be anything super noteworthy at this point. The next time you would expect to see names that you would know that are even available would be once you get to training camp and get out of training camp,

when teams start making cuts. Yeah, you notoriously will have some veterans that will hit the street and then it will be an option of whether the Cowboys at that point I want to go out and get them. But rarely do you find those kind of guys at this point of the year. Not to say they won't sign somebody, but just find somebody at this time of the year. Let's take a call from Trade in Mississippi Trade. What up? Hey,

how you guys doing today? Right? All right, So I've got a couple of things about the defense, and I'll ask you guys. One, I think a lot of people is kind of buried Georgia Locu down the depth chart, and I think I think maybe Christia Shark could do something with him that maybe he hasn't been used before. I think it's a mistake to look at what a

player has done up until this point. You got to look at how they've been used also, and I think that we might use a little different than he's been used, and that might play into his size and everything. And also, do you guys think that there's potential for us to have a really interesting sort of NASCAR package along the dua with all the speed that we have, even if we got so much depth at the end, we could kick Dall inside on a couple pass rushes and have

Maleek Collins dlall. Then you know you got Door jarn Strong, Robert Claid and maybe Randy if he comes back. I just kind of want to hear what you guys think about that. Thank you, guys, love the show. I'm playing up the lizards you know, love both of those questions. Yeah, good questions. Start with the last one first, because the thing about that is you have a really good pass rusher in DeMarcus Lawrence, one of the one of the best in the league. Obviously, playing him inside, I mean,

that's not where he's making his money. That's not what you're paying him for. So I get the notion, But to me, I want my best players doing what they do well. We'll figure out the defensive tackle part there. But I just remember the touchdown against in the Seattle game, the first time there was a deep ball. I remember just thinking, why is he playing on inside just so they could get Taco on the field and all that. Like, I don't love that. I don't love that at all.

I don't need dorn tom Strong on the field for that reason. I want Quinn on the outside and d law on the outside, and we'll figure out some guys that can rush in the middle. I think, I agree. I agree with you, but like throw in, throw Tyrone in their attackles. Maybe you know Tristan Hill looks athletic as hell when he rushes the passer on his UCF tape, So that's where maybe, yeah, which Hyder's not working at tackle right now, but Rod Marinelli said that he could

once he gets a little more acclimated. There's no shortage of guys that can do both, so you know, college teams do that all the time and it's so much fun. So I would I would love to see. Yeah, and I don't mean this in any disrespect to d Law. I just haven't seen it yet. But when JPP was really doing his thing, when he was all over the place, you blind him aforet those tackles. I just haven't seen d Law do that to that kind of effective. Yeah, we did get a peep of that last year during

training camp. If you remember, there were a few days during practice when they let him line up all across the line, so basically as they're doing one on ones, they would line him up a defensive end. In the next rotation, he'd be a defensive tackle, and he'd go all the way down the line and go up against every offensive lineman on the first team and fair pretty well. The only guy I don't think he beat was zech

I if my memory serves correct, but they did. We did get a peep of that and seeing him kind of move around a little bit as for Iloca. I'm gonna guess Trey listen to the comments he made last week, because if he didn't, he's he's really perceptive, at least because Iloka talked to the media a week ago and was like, I love this scheme. You know the defenses I played him before. You know, they asked me to play fifteen twenty yards back. The Cowboys want me more

up in the box. I think that'll suit me better. I tend to agree with him. I mean, the dude is six three, he is all arms and legs. Man, he's he's kind of especially for somebody as short as me, it's weird to be around him. Like he's his legs are just enormous. So in my elementary mind, I'm like, well, yeah, like if you're you know, down in the box where there's less space, like that'll probably suit you better. I don't you know, like wacky waving inflatable tube man out

there trying to play in space. I don't know how great of an idea that is. So I liked the thought of him being in the box. And the other thing he said what he said, my goal is to have the best year of my career. While I went and looked back at his career. He had eighty tackles in three picks with you know, eight or ten pass deflections in two separate years, which maybe that's not all pro, but that's that's better than what we've seen from the safety position for a long time. So if he's better

than that, then it would be noteworthy. When he was out there last year, I think all of us on this show were like, hey, go get him, bring him in here. That think that was what middle of the season or so when when he was out there on the street. So yeah, he's certainly got some skill, no doubt about it. I you know, I don't want to take credit away from Jeff Heath because I drive that bandwagon. I think he's better than a lot of people want

to give him credit for. But the other thing is too, is you know, his comfort in the scheme, his dependability with the coaches, that stuff matters. So I think I Loca is going to have to be significantly better to

just take that job away. Like maybe we'll see him in a platoon situation where they're using three safeties, but if he's just straight up going to be the every down strong safety, I don't think he can just be like the same as Heath, you know what I mean, because they'll defer to Heath like he's gonna have to just blow everybody away with how much better he is. Gotta beat him. All right, let's take a call from Tim and Boston. Tim, Hey, guys, thanks taking my call.

He appreciate it. A couple quick points. First, one is how long do you think it's going to take. We're all cautiously optimistic about the new look offense and things are they're going to be implementing, but how long do you realistically think that it's going to take as far as games before we start seeing dividends from that? And the second thing is I might be the the only one that's a little nervous about a backup quarterback. Ah, I apologize if y'all covered it earlier. I'm a little late

to the show today, but I am very nervous. We've been very lucky, Dak's been a stud knock on wood, he's been healthy, but well nervous about that spot. So I'll hang up and let y'all talk about it. Thanks, thanks for the call. And here's the thing, I'm pretty sure that that he Tim did not watch the tape from yesterday's practice, because if he did, he would be nervous. Not just a little nervous, he'd be very nervous. No, you're not the only one. You're not the only one

at all. I mean, those guys don't look capable really and and they haven't had haven't had to be right now. But but no, they don't look that good right now. Um, they don't. And that might be a product of this first question, which you know he just said, is he gonna take some time and all that. But see, Dak looks pretty good, you know that. I mean, I think he's had a really nice offseason. He throws the ball better. I think you can see a difference here with doing

Kellen and Kitnah so far, we'll see that. Nobody's screaming off the edge to tackle him yet. But I think he looks good. But but yeah, the second part of that, I mean, the worst part is being in at these practices like where you would expect them to be okay and like look better during this time because you're not really playing real football or anything, getting actually to the quarterback.

So it's just it was bad what I saw yesterday from Cooper was bad, Like he would get out of the pocket and start running around not knowing what the heck to do out there, Like he I don't know, his conscious like awareness of the field and where each guy is supposed to be is just not not even there. There's nothing that he does that you just you know,

we're always talking about traits. He just doesn't have any traits that you just watch in practice and go, oh, look at that arm or you know, he's somewhat mobile, but not he's not winning any races or anything like that. And your presence, you know, pocket presence, and it just it doesn't look There was a play we had three interceptions from him yesterday, but there was another play where there was a safety coming right off the edge and I think it was West you maybe, and he was

looking looking over here. Easy sack he would have been, you know, he would have killed. I mean just this guy coming in and he didn't even look at him. So like, his awareness to me is not where it needs to be right now. The pick that Donovan Wilson pick was like it was the last play of two minutes, so I mean, the game's over, and it was a

great play by Donovan Wilson. He just so that one doesn't concern me, but he threw a pick six to Donovan Alumba and another pick to Joe Thomas, where I was like, you didn't even see that guy even know he was there, which that's always troubling. And Mike White just hasn't It's not like he's much better right now.

So the problem is I don't know that the Cowboys are gonna be interested in going out and finding somebody else to replace them, And so what you really have to hope is working with John Kitten through an entire training camp, you start to see one of these guys get better, because no, you know, the hope is that Dak Prescott just keeps being healthy, very healthy, very terry,

very very healthy. But but any event they have to play, I think that's your next best option because I don't know that the Cowboys have shown it, and I don't know if there's really anybody out there you want to go get. We know they hate going to get big names, but like, who's even there, right, who's even who's there? Didn't con Cook get cut? Yeah? Yeah, Connor Cook who has three hundred career passy offseason that ain't great, want me you want cut in June? Pull them Mickey. Yeah. Sure.

Fifteen years ago we were at two thousand and four, we were saying same things about these two backups Drew Henson and this guy Romo. Romo is terrible, like he is terrible, and and you know, luckily Quincy and Vinny are here, but uh and they sign but luck yeah, luckily we got these guys. So but but Romo's terrible. Oh wait, they cut Quincy. Okay, well they have to cut this guy, I mean, because he is absolutely awful. Um, we've seen he doesn't even play flag football very well.

With these guys. Yeah. So um, I'm just saying it was it was the shock of all shocks to think that god Tony Romo is going to be the face of the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, but that's that's so far fetched. I understand all that happened twice, I get it, I said three times, maybe because Dak looked like crap in practice. But Dak wasn't as much of a long shot as Tony, I don't think. And Mike White wouldn't be as much of a long shot as Tony either, he was drafted.

I'm just saying there was a point in time where the thought of Tony Romo was worse than Mike White. Nick made a really funny point yesterday, like, I don't I might be wrong. I don't even think there is a veteran, you know, journeyman out there that would get people interested. But if there was, you would have to pay him like quadruple Dak's salary to come here. Yeah, because he knows he's not playing well. Because because quarterbacks

have money, that's what the veteran makes. Like if you were going to bring in Ryan Fitzpatrick, I mean, he's not available, But if you were going to sign a guy like that, you would have to pay him so much more than what Dak is making. Yes, I agree with that, you would just because of how much Dak, how little Dak makes. Yes. So so it doesn't mean but it doesn't mean it's not doable. Though I think I didn't say it wasn't perception that what you said.

The perception of what you said is is gonna cost you a ton of money. It's not gonna really cost you a ton of money. It's just going to cost you more than you're cheaply paying you. It's understood me completely. It wouldn't be a ton of money in the grand scheme of things at all. It would just be enormously more than what Dak makes because he's the most underpaid player in the league. Yeah, it looks embarrassing, and you know, get that deal done, like Dad, I just Dak would

just be looking at this guy like really. But I have hard time thinking they're going to enter this season with Dak making the money he's making. I have a hard time believing. We'll see, We'll see, but I have a hard time believing that. I don't. I this is what it is. The backup, the back position is troubling, but I don't. I mean, here's what's gonna happen. It's gonna be like a Monday and it's gonna training camp. Like we've seen this before. You're like they've had like

seven practice in row or off today. What are y'all doing? Like, I get this done and then um all day I'm like, wait what they just signed back? Here we go. You know what's what I'm scared of. And I hope it doesn't happen, and I hope that does stay healthy. But remember when we were talking about Tyren Smith and his injury and then not doing something because they already knew he was dealing with the injury. They needed a backup that was good enough, and then you had um what's

his name? Uh that that happens screen job. By the way, just sign this guy. It's amazing. At least two it's crazy. But I just hope that that there is not a scenario like that where we go into the season, something happens and then we're like, well, we talked about the backup quarterback the whole off season and they knew about it, they saw the tape that they didn't do crap about it,

and look where we're at now. But that's also the problem is that the argument can be made anybody that would have been available to them this offseason or even right now, if we you'd still be like, Okay, Dack went down. I don't know what you're going to really expect from this team at that point, larn mccount or something one of them. Yeah, go get Luke again, somebody. All right, guys, I appreciate you joining us. We are we appreciate you join us this whole offseason. It's been

a fun offseason. We'll be back at the opening of training camp. We're gonna be back that day here before we know it makes you join us, stand for Nick, even Dave Hellman, Amber Garcia. I'm Derek Eagleton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.