Cowboys Break: Together Again

It is Wednesday, February twenty fourth, two twenty one, season sixteen, Episode number ninety eight, and welcome to a very special latest edition of The Break, Part that You Buy Geico. We're live from SWBC Mortgage Studios at the Star. And when I say we're alive from the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Start, I mean we are live from the s WBC Mortgage studios at the Star. I got Nick,

I got Dave, I got Amber. We are all in studio for the first time in a year, or maybe a little more than a year, right close, at the first time we've done a show. No, first time we've been in the studio together. Yeah, in a year, because I want to say around this time last year, I know I was at a meeting in Pittsburgh. You guys were at Combine, right it's been a year, so we didn't do anything. We came back, so it's been a year. It's been a full year. This different, it feels good.

I would say it's like a hockey game, but I've never actually sat down on the glass at a hockey camp, so I wouldn't know. That's a better analogy though, because I was gonna say, I feel like I'm in the reptile house at the Zoo. But this that's weird too. I've been a lot of time. I'm getting my bearings like a zoo. Yeah, who doesn't interesting things. I can't reach out to hit Nick like you know, he says something crazy. I just can't like hit him. Rip shot

of the last show we did you did? No, I didn't. I couldn't get past the glass around and hit me in the break. Oh I did come around if I hit you, But I do still owe you. See the funny Like we're sitting here. We think it's so cool that we're all in our room together, but anybody listening to this is like, oh my god, they can just talk and not trip all over each other and lose WiFi and all other faith happen. You know what I

think we're gonna do. I think we're gonna put together a compilation of all of Day's moments when he froze on camera. I think that'd be actually a pretty good video because that seemed to happen every show for the last year. Or Dave's talking and he gets right to the best part of his point and then it's like, I just see, it's just Dave stuck there. I would like to think that I got better as the season

went along, but I can't prove that. Maybe like an hour and a little bit video along when it would be long. How you doing, Amber good? You're just sitting over there looking at us. I think we're all just so excited to be and you're like, let's get this thing over with. Yeah, you guys are way more excited. Definitely, you there, You're way more excited than I am. For sure. I'm just glad I'm alive right now. We all survived last week, so I'm just glad to be breathing right now.

What people don't know about Amber is that Amber hates the coal, so it was doubly bad for Amber. Like all the other stuff, the water, the heat, all that stuff, Amber hates the cold, so you're talking five degrees Ambers out on that you talk, you talk fifty degrees Ambers like, I'm not I'm not doing. Did you happen to notice where the Cowboys star quarterback was while all of that

was happening. No where was it none other than the Dominican Republic that had just pouring salt your home, your hometown, right yep? Yeah, Um, I don't know. I guess can you can you still get deals done from over there? I would think so, And I'm hopeful that maybe there's a little tart going on and it's I'm sure there is. I'm sure at some point. Hopefully, at some point they will have something for us to announce and talk about so that all of our content doesn't end up being

having comments like signed back. So maybe we can get there. So I think he's really involved in the negotiations, which somewhat might argue as part of the problem. You know, maybe he kind of needs to at some point the player does need to kind of step in and help and do that, and maybe he will, maybe that will happen, but it sounds like he kind of stays away from it, and you know, that process hasn't worked in two years so he may be at the end of the day.

I'm a big believer in this. I'm a big believer in the fact that when you have two sides that want to get a deal done, eventually you get a deal done. And so I'm hopeful that that's what's going to happen here. We're getting close to the end of the day. You know that there's a cliche that everyone says that end of the day and whatever that really means.

But I think we're getting close to the thirty business hours. Yeah, like, yeah, we're getting close to the kind of looking checking to see if your boss is still in his office, that type of thing. And if he's not, make a run for hell, yo, not even a run if he's not. If you're not there, I'm strolling out. If I just went to the restaurant. Now that's a good point. Yeah, all right, let's jump in. Today. We are actually going to move to the defensive side of the ball. The

last few shows we've been talking about the offense. We've done a review of each position on the offensive side of the ball. To day we flip to the defensive side of the ball. We're gonna talk about the defensive line particularly, But before we get to that, I kind of want to set the conversation with a bigger picture question about the defense and what we know about this defense. It was bad last year, and saying it was bad, I don't even think really describes how bad it was.

This defense was historically bad from the standpoint of the Cowboys franchise. That all being said, what do you think is the most expedient way for the Cowboys to fix this defense? And I'll give you a little bit of a hint of where I'm going with this. I've heard a lot of discussions about the draft and people talking

about which way do you go. Do you spend all of your draft capital on defense, thinking that's your way to kind of pull it out of the depths of where it's been, or do you look at the offense and say, there are a couple positions on the offense that if you just get a couple pieces, this offense might be really great and that's how you help this defense. Which way do you guys fall on this? Let's start

with your name. I'll start with the defense first. I mean, I think that even though there might be an offensive lineman or so that's there that could help you right away. I just feel like the defensive side of the ball is going to be what you really need. I would suggest to do that in the first couple of rounds, but it's hard. It's hard to see how the draft is gonna go. And and you're right, you could have

an offensive player that helps you. But but I think I'm getting a defensive player that's NFL ready right now, could step in and play. Projects are nice, but I want a guy and at the tenth overall pick, he should be able to step in, and I think it was at forty four forty three in the second round four. I mean that guy needs to be ready to go to I'm not looking at the Jalen Smith's of the world and the guys that were banged up and hope to steal one. I want a guy can plug in

and play right now. Amber, Well, it's it's gonna be interesting because me personally, I still don't know what to expect from den Quinn, and we hear a lot of great things about him and his potential when it comes to player development and all that. But then you when you actually start looking at the roster, this isn't necessarily

a problem that was just last year. I mean, last year it was terrible, but you look at years before that, you still were lacking certain talent on the field when it came to the defensive side of the ball, and that was under a different coaching staff. So you definitely need to reinforce find some more power on that end. And yes, I'm all for the whole draft and draft and you have to draft, you have to. But at the same time, I'm a firm believer and I always

say this. I'm like, I'm about the now, like I want it now, like give me my money now. But you do need veteran help there. You need someone that's already established. And I get that the whole money becomes a problem there because you're already gonna have to spend on that, hopefully on a extended year contract, But you have to at want some point just add veteran help and quit hoping that you're drafted talent is going to

develop into something soon for you to use. You know, I'm just I don't have the patience anymore for the growth is every years, the roster changes so much and then you lose the veteran guys, and now we're at the point where we're talking about Tyran Smith, Sack Martin, like all Collins being injured, and then you sooner or later, you're going to start losing those guys too. So again

you're transitioning the team into something else. So definitely get someone on the defensive side of the ball that can help you immediately and not need room for growth. Dave, you said expedient, and if that's what, if that's what we're talking about, just making how do you get death the quick because the fastest way is to sign Dak Prescott because it just it just answers all the questions

about the future of your franchise. If you don't do it now, you've got to start thinking about quarterbacks in the top ten, drafting a quarterback, figuring out how you're going to accommodate that. You're also if you don't sign them, you're carrying a thirty eight million dollars cap number that makes it incredibly difficult to add any legitimate talent to your team right now. If you sign him today, they

knock knock on would they will? But knock on will they won't because that would mean this show is moot, you know, But hopefully they get it. Done quickly, is what I'm trying to say. Because you can lower his number right now. That allows you, you know, they have nineteen million in space right now. They can create more with a couple of whisks of a PiZZ at nineteen million, assuming that it stayed flat like the salary cap. Yeah, it's still up in the air a little bit. That's

assuming the growth is minimal. But they can create a lot more just by restructuring a few deals, which they do every year. You get dak on a deal you take, you can take his number down significantly from the tag number. Now you can talk about maybe we resigned Cheeto a Wouozier, Maybe we bring in a veteran safety like a keanu'nel. I'm only using that name because he played with Dan Quinn. I don't want to start any specific rumors or you know, like or people ask about Gerald McCoy all the time.

Maybe you could bring him back. With that savings, you had a few players to your defense, then you're probably gonna pick in the top one hundred about four times when you add in the Byron Jones compick. So now and again, I don't want to say you gotta go defense with this pick because you never know. Maybe a tackle is the best guy at number ten, maybe maybe a tackle is the best guy at pick forty four.

But either way, three of those first four picks hopefully will be defense, a couple DB's, a linebacker, maybe whatever. So now you're talking about at least three guys who you think can contribute in a big way right away, handful of free agents. Oh and by the way, your

quarterback is under contract for the foreseeable future. And if all those things happen, I think the Cowboys are easily the favorite to win the NFC East, which maybe that doesn't mean much because that division was terrible last year. But got to win the division to get into the playoffs. That's where the conversation starts. And if they do that stuff, I think they should win the division. And there you go. Amber said something really interesting. I want to get some

opinions on. She said, I want to win now. I'm tired of waiting four draft picks to develop. And you look at the Los Angeles Rams. They've taken a similar approach. They have over the last few years been very willing to give up very high picks for the purposes of acquiring veteran talent, And it seems like their strategy is we'll let everybody else develop talent. We'll let everybody else figure out how that works and and take those risks

that are associated with it. We'd rather get guys in their primes, and we'll give up We'll give up our premium draft picks in order to get guys in their primes because we would just rather have a veteran team and know more of what we're getting. What do you guys think about that strategy? Is at a better strategy than than optimized or really thinking of draft picks as the premier way to build a team over time. Well, teams have been doing it for years. They're just usually

in the NBA. I mean, that's what the NBA does, that's their model. So yeah, it's it's a different I like everything I do in my life, I like to find you find a balance there, Like I like that a little bit. But then we don't have to go

all the way and not draft at all. But I do, like I've always thought, you can get good value in the draft, and you get a vetter and you bring them in here, and I'll always forget I never forget that Randy Moss was a fourth round pick to doing and you know, just because on draft day you don't have a lot of value there um for some reason. So yeah, I like to acquire that. I don't think you sell the farm for those players, because I do

think you build through the draft. But I do think you can kind of fill holes with building through the draft. Hold On, I've been working here for twenty Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, I get the logic behind it, but man, it's not working well. But here's some hold on. But I think it is working. I think it. I think it is working. Look at their best players. They're best players on their team. Are the guys that they're drafting that they're not I mean that they're drafting, they're developing.

I just don't think the depth is where they're struggling. When they went last year to fill holes in the free agency, we all were excited about the free agency and it was Greg three line was a really good addition. Poe McCoy, ha ha, eorly who else busts? I mean, it was bad. So I think that you build there, but the infrastructure needs some help. And I think I think through the draft. I think free agency. That's I'm sorry, I'm being long winded. I think what they need to

change is be more aggressive in free agency. Quit trying to bargain shop all the time and wait for the price tags to go down, trying to target a guy in free agency that will help you maybe go get him. Yeah, we've I mean, we've said this for years. Is like, you know, you don't have to be one extreme or the other, Like I don't. I don't want them to chase the giant contracts and free agency, but they gotta be willing to do more than they do. That's what

it comes down to for me and the Rams. I'm curious to see how it goes because I I don't think it's a terrible idea, especially like you know, you've got a veteran team, got a lot of big contracts, Like you're gonna wind up up a creek eventually regardless, so you might as well go for it, you know, like you might as well go for it and try to put a great team together and strike while the iron's hot. I get it, And you can't completely live

in fear. But at the same time, like when you deal away all your draft pick for half a decade. If anything goes wrong, yeah, it's over for you. I mean, if Matt Stafford tears his labor, m bye bye. Any chance of being good over the next like four years. And like I said, I mean, you can't live your life in fear that that's going to happen. But you got to keep that stuff in mind. So I definitely want and think the Cowboys need to be more aggressive.

But I get real nervous when you start talking about not having a way to better your team in the draft, and the evidence overwhelmingly shows and it's not uniform, it's not a blanket statement, but like cheap labor is how you build good teams in the NFL, like finding good players in the draft and making the most of them before they come up on a second contract. Like that's how you succeed. And it's not fair of the players, but that's just the way it is with this CBA.

And I don't think the one they just signed is going to change it too much. So they need to be more aggressive. But the draft is how you maintain longevity in the NFL in my opinion, Yeah, and do you have something that now I agree with everything they

both said, Actually, like that whole mentality. My only problem is what I said before, It's just it sucks that every year, every year we're talking about, oh, we're developing this talent and all that, and then you see the transitioning happening, and I feel like I've been here, what six seven years now to the point where I'm like, Okay, this isn't really working. And maybe it was the coaching staff, maybe that was a changeing it. We saw that happening.

Maybe last year it wasn't the right situation because of everything that happened to where they could really get this team working together and all that. But it's just it becomes frustrating when you're always hoping and everything. That's a gamble. Even if you sign a veteran player, it's still a gamble. But it's just very frustrating when you only you have to wait for that time of these rookie guys to develop, and we know that most of those guys they have

to take some time to grow into. I mean, we see it, and maybe it depends on the position obviously, but we see it with them needing to put on weight, gain strength, feel, get a good feel of the speed of the NFL game, So that takes time, and I'm sure there are plenty of other people are frustrated than I am, because I've only been falling in for less than a decade. But it's just a lot. Yeah, well,

let me let me say this. Then I'm not gonna say a specific player who's under a contract with another team, I mean, because that could be tampering. I'm not saying that, but like, what positions we think this team like really got to get better at, like corner, say everything, But let's just say you got a guy, he's a he's been he's a fourth year of this will be his fifth year. He's relatively cheap, made two Pro Bowls. He's a stud at corner, you know, or defensive end. He

is a stud. He has been in the Pro Bowl and he needings a big time contract. Are you trading Are you trading your tenth pick for that? No, because you're you're trading one problem for another, right money? Yeah? Yeah, well I don't know. Yeah, well you're creating a problem for yourself. But you're also yeah, like again, the cheap part of it is what makes that is what makes it because you can add talent to your team without crippling your salary cap. That's just too valuable to me,

assuming you're doing your job the right way. And at number ten, you're expecting you're getting a player that's going to immediately become in and give and make an impact right on. And so one Pro Bowl your second round pick. The guy's good. He's a good player. He's in his prime. This is his still his first deal into the first deal is seventh year, he's already had one. And you know, I know it's different. Feel is trying to me toward a specific No, I'm not because I don't want to

go down that road. I don't want to. Well, I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. It does depend on the position. Yeah, Like if you tell me, tell me. If you tell me it's a seventh year UM corner back that is that's been to one Pro Bowl and that Pro Bowl was last year or the year before, and he's playing at that level every year, then maybe I consider. Okay, let's say that JJ Watt is undercut. He's not under contract, so he's a free Let's say that he was, and what would you what would you

give up? Draft wise? Because there's some fans I'll say I'd give up the first round pick. No, definitely, not ten. No, I'm like, would you give up your second though for him? For J. J. Watt now? Not where he is in his career right now. Nope. I can do a third baby, you can talk me into a third baby. But I first two again, like you just said earlier this year, first two picks, I need them both to come in and immediately play. Yeah, but that guy is coming well, huh,

he's been manded up. Yeah. Know what I mean is I need him to come into immediately play and give me at least four years if it's the first round pick, give me five years of production on a cheap contract. Yeah, on a relatively cheap contract. I'll just say this. I mean, the draft is always going to be a crapshoot, but if you do your job the right way, Like the transition to the NFL has ever been easier than it is right now? Why is it? Well, I mean I

think because football it's such an industry. Like if you, I mean, if you're good at football, you're going to camps from the time you're twelve, You're going to these big time programs, playing in these big time games every I mean, I hate to bring him up for the ten millionth time, but t J. Watt didn't need to acclimate to the NFL. He was ready to go from day one. And he is also a great fit for him. Sure where they how they use him a great fit

for him. I guarantee you if t J. Watt had been drafted to over Taco Charlton, he might maybe he wouldn't be the defensive Player of the Year candidate he is, but he'd be on the team and he'd still be here pretty good. I think, yeah, he'd be pretty good. You know. It Also it comes down to the structure of your team. And Sean McVay at the Rams, I'm sure it's very confident in their system that they have look at some of the players that do that play

well for them. They're not always high draft picks. Their drafts are very very important. In the sixth, seventh round, fifth round, they've got to get guys that can come in and play because they don't have any first round picks, so to get that depth. And I think he has confidence that this system it works. He can bring in a Cooper Cup, he can bring in Robert Woods, they can they can shine they can do some great things. Those are just two examples. I think they were relatively

high picks. But you know, their draft is just as important as any other team, probably been more important because they've got a hit on late round picks. While we'll say this too. You look around the league and you look at the teams that have consistently been good in this league over the last ten, fifteen, twenty years. Patriots, the Packers, the Steelers. Those are teams that are notoriously draft first teams. They are not teams that spend a

ton in free agency. Typically, they are your basic basement bargain shopping type teams, and they have been very successful doing it. Now. Part of that is because they you know, in a lot of those cases, they got a quarterback already so they don't have to worry about that. But the irony, the irony there, I agree with you about some of that. The Patriots suck at drafting. They're not awesome, but they but they don't They don't spend a lot of money in free agent at all. They defy all logics.

But there is there is a common theme there. You said, Bay, obviously they Carthy was let go, but he was there what thirteen years. Tomlin's been there a long time, Belichick's been there a long time. So yeah, so you can get you can get some really good players with a system. Maybe they don't draft well, but they have confidence in the system that they have. And so that's why you don't always just want to let coaches go all the

time and start over, because continuity does help. Well, don't get Cowboys fans talking about that, because that I could also go the other way when you hold on a little too long. I'm just saying true, No, I mean, you're right, that's a whole different conversation, just opening all the scabs, like every wound. That though, that's the thing. Those guys have been consistently good to great, and Jason

Garrett and this staff was consistently average to good. And that's that's the mostly average though, all right, mean around an average. Here's we're gonna do. We're gonna take our first break when we come back. We're gonna talk about the defensive line. I got some questions lined up for you guys who are gonna talk about defensive in We'll also talk about defensive tackle. We'll do that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio Honey,

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the s WBC Mortgage studios. At the start, we are presented by Geico, and today we're talking about the defensive side of the ball. We flipped our review from the offense to the defense, and we're gonna zoom in today on the defensive line. My first question for you guys is how comfortable are you and you have two starter caliber defensive ends between Lawrence and Gregory going into next season. Let's did you read the mailbag this morning? Maybe not?

Was I supposed to? I was actually mail baglast yesterday. That's why I was confused. It was Tuesday. Tuesday's mailbag. Dave and I both answered, what position on the whole team if you had a chance to just get an impact player? And we both kind of went around different spots would all be great, but we ended up with defensive end. Yep. Really, oh yeah, of all the positions on this team. Okay, but that's not that's not a knock on Randy. Okay. And when you at you said,

I think your wording ones. Are you comfortable that you got two starters? I'm comfortable with that the same way that I'm comfortable that I have money in my savings account, Like it's there. I'm comfortable with it. But it could always be better, Like I would love to have more I would love to have more badass pass rushers. If Randy Gregory is my third down specialist, because I have another right end, that's even better. That's a great problem to have, and it probably that's what I said in

the mailbag. And if your secondary is not great, that's how you that's the best way to fix it. And I know, you know, people go back and forth coverage verse pass rush and like, if you've got great coverage, that's awesome and it definitely helps. But guess what the Cowboys don't. So I always think about the New York Giants. You know, they had Michael Strahan o Kiwanuka and at the fifteenth overall pick, they took this freak name JPP and he you know, did they need him? Not really?

But they went from comfortable to did they have tuck on that team too. Oh yeah, they were just loaded. Did you say Kenny. Kenny was on the first one too. Yeah. They had so many weapons in that front, and that's why they beat the Patriot And that's and that's kind of why I think we both said I mean so,

and I think I do. I think that sticks in the consciousness of Cowboy fans because that Giants team beat such a good Cowboys team with that pass Russian and obviously the Patriots and the Packers if you remember they beat all three of those teams at Place. I would be you know, if you were like, you can have those giant fronts or the Legion of Boom, I would

probably take the Legion of Boom, honestly. But I just think it's way harder to put together that caliber of a secondary than that caliber of a path It's tough, but the Legion of Boom was legendary as a defense, like they will go down to Lure as one of

the greatest defense. I don't think the Giants worked out, but I do think that front, that pass rush though, helped that pass rushian Yeah right, yeah, yeah, I do think it's easier to help a secondary with a badass path rush that it is to have a badass secondary help. You can't cover for twelve days if you can't rush the passers. So there is also are are we counting I mean, are we counting on Gregory? Well, that's part of this question, Like do you do you feel comfortable

saying he is your starter? I'm I'm sky high on Randy. Like the rules have been changed, I'm not worried about I mean, knock on all of the wood. But we're almost to March, and if in case anybody forgot, February is usually when those suspensions come down, and so I'm I'm very optimistic a Randy will be around. This should be the first time that he can have a full offseason in his career, whole career, in his whole career. This is the first time. It's amazed that he should

be around from February until August. I feel great about it. But at the same time, I think, you know, they redid his contracts, so like this is the last year on his deal and they got him for one year. And he's also I don't know if he's ever played sixteen games in his entire career, but that doesn't that also tell you just how good this guy is. Sure he's never had an off of course, he is a freak,

and I'm very I'm excited he's here. I'm comfortable if he's the starter, But if an opportunity presents itself to add another pass rusher, I'm not gonna not do it, fortunately or maybe not fortunately. But I don't think the draft lines up particularly well to you know, there aren't and there there's no Chase Young in this class. You know that, like, oh, the Texas Calsa, I don't. I mean, it depends on where you get him. I don't think. You know, we're not talking about draft second round? Is

he a second round gun? You're you're definitely not drafting him at ten. Let's put it that. I know that. So who is getting drafted at ten? Maybe Miami? Sounds like I keep hearing all the corners, well Gregory, Gregory Roussou, the Miami guy, and um quitty pay the Michigan guy, which don't even don't say Michigan pass rusher to a cowboy fan. So it's yeah, that's that's tough that they have to live with that, but it's a part of

it unfair, but it's a thing. Well, I mean, there's teams that probably he didn't you know, that passed on Tom Brady because or you know, because they had Drew Hinson. You know, you can't compare. To be clear, that's a mistake and a dumb way to look at the draft. But that's not going to make anybody feel better about what happened with Taco. Um. So I'm comfortable with Randy and I would guess if you make me guess right now,

he's probably your starter when the season gets here. But I would still be happy to try to add to it. I think something else you said in the mailbag, though, it's not just about that. It's are you comfortable with your third pass rusher? Because it was for the last couple of years. You know, you had Quinn and then you had Alden Smith in there and then but now what are you going to do there? You know, is it gonna be Dorin's Armstrong, It's gonna be Bradley and

I is he going to see the field? I mean like, is he ready to make that jump? So I think I think you're not. I think I need to add something. You had something there, a defensive defensive line, defensive end, and hope that you get a healthy tank. Tank started to see it. I mean, you started to see him last year really starting to play well and he doesn't always have to get sacks to play well. He played well at the end of the season, but he needs

some help. You mentioned Aldon Smith. Amber, I'll ask you this question, do you think, based on what you saw last year, you would go back, go out and resign Aldon Smith to a longer term deal, two or three year deal even just would you have him back on this team next year? Absolutely, I would definitely won him back. I know he was dealing with some injuries and got kind of banged up towards the second half of the season, but to his credit, he was doing all the work

the first half of the season. So the good thing it wasn't anything major, Like, he wasn't dealing with any major injuries. So I do feel that the Cowboys can definitely come to an agreement with him and get a good deal with him, another one year deal type of stuff, and it worked out me. I feel I would feel

okay with the position. And honestly, I mean, you guys talking about defense event and all that, but I feel like there's no wrong answer here, Like I don't feel like if you were to get any other position on defense that anyone could really be mad at it. You know, there are so many needs that there's absolutely no wrong answer here. It's just like, Okay, who's the best talent out here, and let's go for it. Because you definitely, what are we doing that linebacker? I mean, that's a

big question mark there. We have no idea. Yeah, that's a whole show. But the defense you have, you see it as well as a It's all layers. You know. You start with the defensive line, and then he goes to linebackers, and then you got the secondary, so it all trickles down and everyone it's just everyone affects each other. But I guess it just depends and it comes down to the best talent available there. But defensive end position, I would feel good if we do have Alden Smith back,

and I feel like he wouldn't be an issue. He would be able to give you a lot on the field. Again, let's zoom in a little bit on Aldon Smith because I was looking at his production from last year and this stuck out to me. Four of the five sacks he had last season happened in the first three games. I think he had one in game one, he had three in Game three, and then he only had one more sack from Week four through week game sixteen of the season. In addition that almost half of his tackles

came in the first five games of the season. He had twenty six in the first five games, a total of forty eight for the season. Do you attribute a lot of that to the fact that this was a guy who hadn't played football since twenty fifteen, or do you think it was just a situation where, you know, at first he was just kind of hot, and then we realized that he just may not he may not have what he needs in order to play at this

level at this point in his life. What else happened at the midpoint of the season, Randy Gregory showed up and started reacclimating. So I think it's a little bit of both of those, which I think it's you know, we talked about Randy being a freak. I think it's equally impressive that a guy took five years off and even if he tailed off, he was a different difference maker.

Is maybe strong for the defense that was that bad, but he was a reliable contributor to a pro defense five years after if he if he was tailing off, I mean, yeah, his numbers did, but I nobody caught him on that a seventy eight yard touchdown. I mean, like, and I know that was just one play against the Bengals, but it was an athletic play from a defensive end to scoop up that ball and take off like that. And I think it shows, like they've said, five years

removed from football. They always talk about it an injury, you know, that first year back after an ACL injury or any injury, it's kind of tough the year. How about five years? About five years of some tough life. You know, for sure, Aldon Smith wasn't wasn't worried about some of the people that in Dallas and some of the issues people had or you know, and then you know, sleeping with no heat and all that. This guy was living under cars for a while. I mean, this guy

was living a really tough life. And now he's back playing and he had one year and it was a good year, and he in any other year probably could have won Comeback Player of the Year, you know, but um, I'm surprised he didn't even get many more more votes. I thought that was kind of a shame. Alex Smith should have won it. But Alden Smith, five years removed from football to come back and play like he did. Um, yeah, I think he. I think he's deserving of a new contract.

But I don't know about the one year deal because he lost five years of He lost five years of paychecks too. He's probably looking to it if anybody, if anybody is gonna go after and deserves to like the best possible offer that he should. Yeah, but I'll tell you this, looking at the production, I think that it might work out for Dallas, that they actually can get him for a reasonable deal. I think, yeah, I think it is realistic to think that he could wind up

back here in a not crazy deal. He did a very um interesting interview you could on our on our show, on our one of our shows, the back in I guess November December. But the thing about it, if you kind of sift through some of those comments, he also said we were building this. We next year. You know, he talked a lot about next year. Didn't really talk like an unrestricted free agent. He talked a lot about what they've been building and what they could do what

they'll be next year. So I'm not sure I'll just money talks, but I'm just saying I'll throw every year. I w terribly on It's hard to put it. There's thirty two teams and all it takes is one to decide that you're the guy. And I was my jaw dropped when I saw what Robert Quinn got last year because I was I was like, you know, he's on the tail end of his career. He's kind of you know, he's more of a pass rusher than an all around end.

And Chicago was like, we don't care. Here's eighty million dollars. So because they got all around goal on the other side, can afford to say give me you got to just go get the pass around the opposite side. I would like to think it's realistic, but all it takes is one team to be like, oh we can we can turn this back into the old Alden Smith and then and then we're doing a show about how he's gone. So that coy smile of them, well, it's it's it's interesting.

I mean, I'm not trying to be a hater, but I'm just saying, you talked about you're talking about Khalil Mack. You know, they got him locked up and he's good. He and then the other side you can just go, well, that's what you think you should have had here, you know, that's what they're playing for. Maybe, but let's not be like. Khalil Mack is the best, in my opinion, the best defensive end in football, and I don't think it's even that close. Um. I think it's unfair to just say, well,

that's what you're paying for. Yeah, you have to pay because that was market price. But I don't think anybody was expecting him to have Khalil Mack type production, right. That's just kind of what sucks about it, though, Marcus market price sometimes, you know, and the Cowboys really haven't been able to cash in on that as much. Maybe Zach Martin, yes, but everybody else, I mean not really, you know, and we're about to find out. I guess

with that too. But I'm just saying, you know, with Cooper and Zeke and and Delaj and Jalen, was below market, you know, that was actually did I'd take I'd take issue with Cooper. I mean, especially like Cooper didn't like set this crazy new market like he Yeah, he slotted himself right in there where he probably should be, and he had a pretty damn good season consider rights. Yeah, but I mean I certainly not getting it from Zeke.

I'm higher on Tank than a lot of people. But as the money is the money and he's I mean, you're not getting what the money says you should. Um who else? Jalen? Obviously? I mean we don't even have to go there. So Yeah, I mean overall, I do agree with you. That's funny. All right, here's we're gonna do um before we get to the next question. Or actually, let's go and get this question before we do the final break. Let's assume for a second they don't decide

to resign Alton Smith. Do you think the third defensive end is on this team or how would you feel if the third defensive end were on this team? You're talking about guys like Dorance, Armstrong, Bradley and I Or do you think the Cowboys really got to go out and if you say, if what you say is true, day there aren't really great option out there in the draft that they really got to go into free agency and try to find themselves a competent um good defensive end.

As their third guy. If you just listen to Jerry, I was gonna go ahead and go ahead. It's I mean we you know, I said the other day, like, this is the longest we've gone in an offseason without hearing from Jerry or Stephen because there was no Senior Bowl and we're not at the Combine. But if Jerry Jones had a chance to speak publicly, I bet we'd be writing something about how Dorn's Armstrong is the next future.

They love to drop him his name, It loves him some Dorian's Armstrong and I don't I don't necessarily see it. But who the hell am I? Well, the coaches did too. It was no I know, I can just hear. It's one of those things where I'm just like, somebody's crazy and I don't know right, maybe it's me. I don't know. I mean I watched every game and I look at the stats, and I look at the hidden stats. You know, I stats. You know you can find stats to tell

the story, and I'm still just looking for it. I'll say this, though, what is what is the thing that endears a player to the coaching staff like nothing else? Work hard, single play work hard. You're saying, there we go contribute on special teams, and Dance Daurance was great on special teams, like he made the play for Dan Francisco. Yeah, he was on all the teams. He forced that fumble, Very versatile, knows his assignment. You know, he reminds me of a little bit just like of a kind of

a gadget kind of guy. Is the guy I wasn't gonna say that, but no, Tyrone Crawford, who is a guy that now is going to be an understricted free agent and there's doc talk that he may be done with football. But I think he's the kind of player like Tyrone. You never really looked at him and thought

he was a great player, but coaches loved him. Coaches thought he was like, that's my kind of git, right that that has been a trap that this team has fallen into time and time again because and again love him. I'm I am the unofficial president of the Jeff Heath fan Club. But Jeff Heath has the game of his life against Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs, and that goes from this special team's beast gadget guy should be our starting safety. And that wasn't probably a mistake, and that's this.

I mean, Dorence Armstrong, if he's your fourth end and a special team's ace, that's awesome. Don't try to sell me like he's a ten sack guy, because I feel like we would have seen that by now if that was true game of his life, would have forced a fumble on Aaron Rodgers. I mean, hey, when people when I didn't hang onto that ball every year, every year, people are like, here we go talking about quarterback hand size,

and I'm like, guess what it matters. Go watch that play because if he's got small hands, that Jeff heats scoring a touchdown, Cowboys make no way he's supposed to hold on that ball. Cowboys make the NFC Championship game. If if he forces a fumble on that players. I've never been there before. I know I even know what that is. This sport is so cruel. Came over to us at the end of that game. She was so sad.

She was like, I wanted you guys to get a ship, Like, yeah, well, just I mean, we're going down a rabbit hole here. But if that happens, like if he strips Rogers and they get it, they get the ball deep in Green Bay Territory. They they're probably gonna win that game, and then like all of the narratives reset because because everything like, oh, it's been thirty years since they've done this, since they've done that, And if that happens, then it's like, well

it's been two or three years. That's not the crest. Then it doesn't go to championship game, just goes to the Super Bowl, which well, sure they have played the Falcons at home, Falcons at A and T. Yeah, And I mean the way they're a defense actually was a pretty good on defense. That here the Falcons. Who's their coordinator? Their head coach? Ye was he calling the defensive plays? I don't remember, but they destroyed that Packers team, like they beat the crap out of They were good. No

one talks about that. Should have Falcons that season talk about twenty eight three, which again cruel sport because that's until they win a Super Bowl. That's all anyone I'll ever say about him at It's on T shirts And even when they do win a Super Bowl, it will still be on T shirts and people still be talking about that game. All Right, we're gonna take our final break, We're gonna come back when a flip to the defensive

tackle position. Talk about a couple guys. They are a couple of young guys and what we think of them going forward that when we come back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio Sam's eighteen sixty five. Stetson Hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your Texas and team pride too? You can by purchasing your own Stetson. You can look just like how the flag guys do on field at every

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Welcome back. It is the final segment of the break we li from the s WBC Mortgage Studios at the Star presented by Geico. We're gonna talk about defensive tackle at this point, and my first question for you guys revolves around the two young guys, Tristan Hill and Neville Gallimore.

They both I thought had moments where they flashed this season. Um, if you were to if the Cowboys were to go the route of signing a big time free agent, the challenge you have there is you got two young guys who need snaps in order to develop you, and you sign a big time free agent that's gonna take snaps from them, which slows their their progression. You would think, So, which way do you think the Cowboys should go with this?

Do you go out and if you can, if you're gonna spend money in free agency, that's a position where you would go all in for a big time defensive tackle if you could find one. And that means that you slow down the progress of those two young guys, or do you look at this as I have two young guys, I want to develop them. I'm gonna get some help in the free agent market or in the draft, but I'm not necessarily looking for a guy that's a big free agent because I think I got two guys

who can play. Let's start first few, Dave, I think that probably. I mean, that just depends on the player, honestly, I mean, and and the size of the contract. Again, you can be frustrated by it all you want, but it's a very good guess that they're just they're not going to splash obscene amounts of cash. I mean, I gotta see it to believe it at this point. But I mean especially at tackle, well sure, yeah, that's not

a position that they ever jump out anyways. And then they you know, so if there is a top notch tackle like unlikely they will even try to get him anyways. And then but we are we basing this on a lot of years of Jason Garrett, and maybe that's why they weren't willing to do that. Where now you deal with a different coaching staff that may have a different picture, and unfortunately, I mean I'm not trying to throw shade at anybody, but like we haven't talked to Dan Quinn

since he got hired. I have no idea what he wants to do with this defense, unfortunately, so I'm just taking my best guests and history. Even last year with a new coaching staff, they brought in Gerald McCoy. But that's my point is talented player on the back end of his career who they got for a lesser price, which if he's healthy and wants to come back, let's go Kawan Short who is not far removed from being one of the best D tackles in football. If he

can be had for a decent price. All in, I doubt and Damkin Sue wants to leave the Super Bowl champs, I would guess he just re ups with them. But if he wants to come here, all in on that too. Otherwise I think you probably just make do I mean, you know, if Tristan Hill can come back from his ACL and you think you feel good about that, yeah, Like I like the idea of letting those two draft picks develop. I mean Tristan was showing I mean like he was showing promise when he got hurt, and Gallimore

came along. So if those are my top two, I feel fine about that, and you can fill in the depth behind him, and I think Antoine Woods will be back. I think he's a restricted free agent, so it shouldn't be hard to keep him. So it's not a huge thing for me where I'm like, we gotta go do something crazy. But if you can identify like a McCoy like last year, I mean, I know it didn't work out, but I don't think that's their fault. Amber now I agree with everything. I feel the same exact way with that.

And to me, i've maybe because it's the position of itself that is just not that attractive or you know, get many eyes on it because of it's not really a flashy position. But I just I got other worries. I got other needs that are way way higher than defensive tackle. I was impressed with what Tristan Hill was able to do last year. It was very very unfortunate that he got hurt. What game was that that was the same game as that, right, Yeah, that was so soon,

So it just sucks that that happened. But I do think that he's still able to come back and jump right back at it, and Gallimore he was showing some impressive stuff too. So hopefully with another year on him and just developing the guy and all that, it'll be better. But just overall, I just think that there are just so many other bigger needs than defensive tackle. If they want to bring someone in for cheap, whether that's a

veteran guy like Dave said, that just works great. But other than that, I'm like, I'm way more focused on other positions. Yeah, I mean I think that I think that's the right approach. I think that's the approach that it's gonna that they're gonna take. But it's kind of the same with safety. When you're like, well they just don't do that, it's like, well they haven't done it in twenty five years or twenty years. They haven't gotten a safety like that, and they haven't gotten a defensive tackle.

They don't put that kind of you know, priority level on it. But maybe they should because this this isn't working like this, you know this, Maybe they should draft a defensive tackle at number ten. I don't know if there's one available that's which And I was I was gonna say, I can I can hear people listening saying like, how do you expect your linebackers to be better if your defensive tackles can't keep blockers off of them? I get that, I just I don't see a super clear

path to drastically upgrading, Like I don't. I don't think there is a defensive tackle that's worth that. Let me ask you this, do you think I think JJ Watt could play a three technique in a four three line? I think J J Watt could probably that the kind of guys let's let's put a name to it, a JJ Watt. Would you be willing Now again, I'm not saying you got to break the bank, because I don't think you would break the bank. And maybe that's the reason why you can't get him, because some team is

willing to break the bank on him. But if you could get it for a price that makes sense, and that would be an elevated price, but a price that may sense, would you look at a guy like that to bring in at your three technique lootely or if he wants to play either end, he can do that too, Like I'll find a spot for him to get J J Watt. You know I think I think you know he's gonna He's not just gonna go and change positions.

I mean, he's he's gonna go and be Well, he's been a three he's been a defensive end of three four. That's why I say Kenny slack because it's kind of in between. You could go to one or the other. We've been a defensive end and three four, and I think the Cowboys just change their defense for him. You just go straight to a three four. You know, I've said it before. I think that you know they have pieces there. Randy, Randy Gregory's a big piece. Who's your

nose tackle? The problem? Well right now? Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna go to three four, who's that's a pea and who's your nose tack? And they don't have a guy. They don't have that guy, not a space eating guy. They don't have that guy. You gotta get You gotta get him too. The problem with JJ him too. Then you gotta sign him and say, hey, you're playing

next to JJ Watt, deal with it. JJ Watt's in that very unique situation where like what I'm I'm going out on a lamb, but he's going to defy expectations because he's he's made more money than he could ever spend. Like he's done that, He's signed two or three contracts. He's all. He's in the Hall of Fame tomorrow. But he wants to win a super Bowl and he can decide where he wants to go. And so like I mean, like Tampa Bay, he would take less to play in Tampa Bay. Or like if he wants to play with

his brother, he could go to Pittsburgh. He's from Wisconsin. Buffalo is a piece or two away. I just think the Cowboys are further away from being a super Bowl winner than about at least half a dozen you left out Green Bay. There's six to eight teams that are much that seem to be much closer to contending than the Cowboys. And JJ Watt doesn't care about money stayed income tax. That's true. I'm just actually, and it's not a far movie. A lot of people, yeah, a lot

of them do, but that doesn't matter. It's where you're playing, Where where you work is where you get to tax you. You are uniquely positioned to way in on this because some people have made fun of me. JJ Watt is the closest thing to like the face of Houston sports in the last like twenty Like he's mister Houston. Um, I think it would matter to him because how are people in Houston gonna feel if he signs in Dallas. I think that's true. I think that matter. You know,

you know what it reminds me of. It reminds me of DeMarcus Ware when DeMarcus Square left Dallas. Yeah, he didn't want to go to the nfcas he really didn't want to go to the NFC. He's gonna and it's because he will always be a Dallas cowboy in his mind. And so he went a whole different conference to where it's not even and now he says, I'm a Bronco and I'm a Cowboy. But he could do that if he went to Philadelphia JJ, clearly, And I'm not feel that he cares about his public image and he cares

what he loves the city of Houston. Yes, And I just from all indications, And I mean, if the Cowboys were on the cusp of if the Cowboys were the best team in the NFC, maybe it doesn't matter. But they're not, then I just I don't think he would do that. Yeah, I kind of agree with you on that. I kind of agree with you. All Right, you made a comment. What did you say, said, Nolan Ryan did? Like, that's the same. I don't know that Nolan Ryan, right, Yeah,

got it, he didn't. He didn't get what thirty million dollars for flooding in Houston and all that. Do you think he's not, like honestly before probably he's probably the next guy in line in Houston sports lore behind a Chemolari one. Yeah, probably right up there with him. JJ is gonna do what Chris Long did and sign a laughably small contract with a Super Bowl contender and probably go help them win it, which that would be cool.

I like J J Watt, good for him. Who are gonna say amber something that Dave said that just got me thinking. And you know, we tend to assume that everyone just wants to come to the Dallas Cowboys because of what they are. But aside from JJ Watt and just other veteran guys, do you think they sit there and they're looking at a Dallas and be like, nah, they're They're not really gonna get me to a super Bowl?

You know what they care about? Honestly, I think when when players want to come here, I think they want to come here. They'll say those things in press conferences and say, man, it's great to be able to wear the star and all that, like that's cool. But at the end of the day, I think they think about it more from the standpoint of that state income tax. That's a lot of freaking money. That is a ton

of money. So playing in Texas versus playing in California, versus playing in New York or Jersey, whichever you want to put it like, there's a sizable difference in the amount of money you're gonna make when you're playing in those cities. And I do think, and people Jerry gets a hard time for this, but I do think it's legitimate playing. And we've seen it happen over and over again. Guys finished playing here, and if they have even a modicum of success, they have a lot opportunities. They want

to go into media. They get shots at Jason Witton up jump the line. He jumped the line, Tony Romo jumped the line. You can't tell me if they would have been even in a city like Green Bay where you got a successful program there. You can't tell me that those guys are jumping the line like the Cowboys do. There is some value to playing in this city. You know what state also doesn't have income tax LATA. Is that? Yes? Yeah?

And I I have this bad feeling like we're we're about to see the closest thing to a Lebron situation as we've ever seen in the NFL. I mean, Brady showed up in Tampa and won the whole thing like it was nothing in his first year, and guys are just gonna be like, I want a piece of that, And they're going to be more veterans available to go

down there. They're gonna be more veterans available than ever before because the cap didn't grow, Like like, guys are gonna be getting cut left and right, and a bunch of them are gonna be like, let me go win a ring with Tom before we were Also, he doesn't have a lot of money on that cap. I mean, it's a it's a sizeable deal, but not it's not crazy relative to how good he is and how the

other quarterbacks are. Yeah, and they might have some whole suo because I think they got some free agents that were they can Godwin's a free agent r. Godwin's a free agent Shack Barrett, and they're gonna lose a few of those guys, and they're gonna replace him with quality, the JJ Watts of the world, who are like, let me take way less than market value so I can win a ring. I just maybe I'm wrong, but I just I can see that coming. It'll be interesting. It

definitely will be interesting. Okay. One of the real quick question I have for you guys on the defensive tackle position right now? Where would you rank defensive tackle among all the needs that you have on this team? Where do you rank this position? Let's start first with you Amber, Uh, shoot, you call me off guard with that one. Where would you rank it? Let's let's say just on the defensive side. Let's say defensive defensive tackle, offensive linebacker, cornerback, safety. That's

five positions. Where would you rank it in that five? I hate to say this because it is an important position, but to me, it would be towards the end, towards the bottom. I've been complaining about safety since forever. We've talked years, years and years. Cornerback, What do you got there? Aside from Trevor Diggs? I mean, what you really need? Help there for sure, and you need a guy that can jump right in and do the work that needs to be done. Linebacker is a whole mess. You don't

know what's gonna happen. And I mean again, I know we don't want to even touch Jalen Smith because we all know what that is. But if you look at the other guy later vandersh what's going to happen with him and his injury? How at what level is he gonna be able to play once his back? Is he gonna get injured again? So too many question marks for me in those other areas of the field for me to list defensive tackle higher than any of of the rest of those positions, So for me would be at

the bottom. I think it's in the middle. Actually, I think I think it's the secondary needs safety and corner and then I would probably put from the standpoint of need because I just I don't trust the Gallimore and Tristan Hills that's all I've got right now. I think they're going to give up a lot on the run. I need some I need a little bit more experience there. And then linebackers is hard to tell. I mean what,

I don't know. It's hard to know what they're gonna do with Jalen Smith and they're gonna play in and then with the health of Layton and with Sean Lee, and so I don't know, like maybe it's a big need. Maybe it's not a defensive end. We talked about it. It could be an upgrade, and it's a it's a it's a good position to upgrade. But as far as

need go, I think I put it a third. Okay, Dave, I'm gonna rephrase it because every just everything on the defense is a need And I don't like the idea of saying, Google, that's not a need because bs like watch the games from last year, But in terms of like how comfortable I feel and how much work I feel like they have to do just in the interests of like playing games, I feel I just feel better about defensive tackle and defensive end because you have the

bodies there to do it, Like you have Tristan Hill, probably Antoine Woods, Neville Gallimore, Tanks not going anywhere, Randy's here, so like it won't be the best defensive line in the league, but at least you have guys like they don't have a secondary right now, And I'm terrified of their line corps. Like my feelings on Jalen Smith are well known, and you can't deny Layton's injuries at this point, it's been two years in a row and very sneakily,

like it sneaks up on you. But they've got to decide on his option this year, and if they don't pick it up, then he's in a contract year. So I put it as everything in the secondary and linebacker is paramount to me. And maybe you know you don't have to draft linebackers, you at least got to figure it out, like dan Quinn's got to be, Like I can make Jalen work, pick up Layton's option. I mean, if they do those two things, then they're fine, but they might not, so that gives me a lot of pause.

So I don't feel good about their defensive line, but I just think it is it's the closest thing to being complete on a unit that needs a lot of work. That's a good lead in because next week we will talk actually the week after next, we will talk about linebackers. We will zero in on that position because that is a position that has all kinds of question marks for this team, and I don't know that anybody knows the

answers to those right now. Next week we're gonna focusing on free agency because it's the last show before we will do before free agency begins, and so we're gonna talk about all these free agent players at the Cowboys have they have to make a decision on. We'll do that next Wendy makes you join us for Nick even Dave Helman, Helman, Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eagleton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.

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