Cowboys Break: Super Bowl Contenders?

We're live from the s WBC Mortgage Studios at the Star and this Draft Week, Cowboys twenty nineteen NFL Draft is upon us. It starts tomorrow night. We'll have wall to wall coverage for you guys across all of our channels, Dallas Cowboys dot Com, Cowboys Mobile, Cowboys Connected TV App, basically everywhere you can go to get content. We'll be there and we'll be giving you guys wall to wall coverage. Welcome to the show, Nick, Dave in Spanish and in

Spanish were doing wall to wall in Spanish. I don't know about wall to wall as far as I can reach, you know, I can't reach both sides of the wall. Giving us some content we'll have some stuff some most Cowboys for those of you that don't know, go check out some most Cowboys dot com. You can also get access to that Spanish content on our mobile app, Cowboys Mobile. How's everybody this morning? Great? From this mid day? Good? We ready for draft? Yes? Yeah, you've been working on

this for a while, Dave. It's like Christmas. I love. This is one of the best weeks of the year. I think this is my three favorite days that don't actually involve football being played. Okay, yeah, yeah, not the games, No, I mean football season in general. Labor Day to Christmas is better than the rest of the year always. But this is nice, good. So let's talk a little bit

about draft. And I wanted to take it a little different direction, seeing is this is not the Draft show, so I don't expect that you're going to get a whole ton of you know, here's who the Cowboys should

be looking at in the sixth round. But what I wanted to do I actually saw this article this week, and actually I was listening to our sister station in W one five three of the fan here in Dallas, and they were doing a similar thing, but there was it was all based on this article that I that that I read that Bucky Brooks produced on NFL dot com.

And the contention, the whole contention of the article was that based on his experience and the other guy who works with Daniel Jeremiah, who's also a former scout, both of them being former scouts, Um, they kind of came up with this formula of what they said a super Bowl contending team should be. Here the ingredients that a super Bowl contending team should be in today's NFL. UM. And so I wanted to talk about number one, that

formula that they put together. But then also as a part of the article, they named five teams in the NFL that they felt like our super Bowl contender ready based upon this formula, one of which being the twenty nineteen Dallas Cowboys. And they gave some names as to some of the ingredients that they thought kind of made up this whole, uh, this whole you know, concoction of what a team would look like. Um, so we'll talk

about that as well. So let's start first with kind of his overall idea of what should be in a Super Bowl contending team. And I want to get your opinions on whether you think, what do you think of the actual setup? Right? So he says Super Bowl contending teams should one have a franchise quarterback. Number two should have three offensive linemen. And when I mean by offensive line, three really good offensive linemen. He calls them blue players.

These are players that you would consider top ten to fifteen to twenty depending on the position in the NFL. But three offensive linemen, three offensive playmakers. And by the way, you can't have multiple guys in You can't have a guy in two different positions. So if your quarterback is your quarterback, you can't consider him one of the playmakers. Right, Does that makes sense? Then you have two pass rushers, and then you finalize finally, have three defensive playmakers. Do

you guys think of that? I think that seems like a bit much. Do you think that. Do you argue the point of whether you need some of those some of those people, I mean on three playmakers on the offense outside the quarterback and the three offensive linemen. Yes, so three skill positions that are playmakers, and then on defense three playmakers that are not your two pass rushers. Okay, I don't like to be that guy that always just disagrees with stuff. But I just think that it's a

very black and white way to look at it. I guarantee you there are people listening to this show right now that are like, what about the coach? Where does that factor in on all this thing? But I, you know, yeah, those things sound pretty good. The difference for me, it'll start with number one, the franchise quarterback, because how many franchise quarterbacks are there? You know, like, is my franchise

quarterback better than your friend? I mean, you're calling Kirk Cousins a franchise quarterback in Minnesota because you're paying for it, but he's not helping you win like Tom Brady is as a franchise quarterback. So I yeah, you knows that a franchise quarterback. Let me give you let me give you some perspective on that. Of the five teams he mentioned, he mentioned the Patriots and this is where you get interesting, the Cleveland Browns, the Los Angeles Rams, the Dallas Cowboys,

and the Chicago Bears. Four of those five are not considered top three to top five quarterbacks in the NFL. However, he identifies them as franchise quarterbacks, which makes me think his definition of a franchise quarterback is not necessarily that as much as it is who you have a guy that you know is your guy at quarterback, whether that's whether he has flaws, we know that he has flaws,

but he is your guy. Like this is a guy you're committed to and you feel like buying large he can get you to the promised Land, Right, He's gotta have pieces, Maybe that's the truth, but he's just a quarterback that you feel like you're committed to and you think he can get you there with the right things around him. Yeah, and that I mean that conversation has become so skewed and like it's it's a meme at this point, like the old, you know, decade old joke

about is Joe Flacco elite? Like you know, is a franchise quarterback a guy that can make every play on his own and win your games that you're not supposed to win and he will keep your rell that no matter what. Or is a franchise quarterback a guy that you trust to steer your organization in the right direction. I think it's a wide definition and not everybody has the same one, which is why it's perfectly logical for me to think that Daniel Jeremiah considers Dak a franchise quarterback,

and a bunch of people listening to this don't. Um. But the recipe, I mean, that's that's not that's not groundbreaking stuff. You need a quarterback, You need to protect your quarterback. Your quarterback needs weapons to get the ball to You have to rush the passer. You have to have guys that can make plays on the ball when the ball comes out, especially in the stands. It sounds like a good football team, and a good football team

is usually a Super Bowl contenter. So yeah, he's breaking it down and it's it's April, and he's doing his homework and I get it, like that's that's a that's a well written thing. And he's now identifying teams that are on there that that's awesome. Um. Yeah, I agree with Dave. It's not really groundbreaking. But I do think coaching is a part of it. Um. And then there's some intangibles thing too, you know, kicker and stuff like that.

You got to have a guy that's not gonna you know, I don't know if kicker has to make you elite, but you can lose games if you you know, the Rams certainly got into the Super Bowl because they had a kicker, you know, so there's some other factors there, But that's interesting. I think it just starts with a quarterback. I mean, like you said, is this quarterback elite? Is he good enough to get there? But if you've got those three offensive linemen and three playmakers on offense, and

then and then your defense is doing its job. You know, I don't even know how if you even need a franchise quarterback. You just need a quarterback that's not going to mess it up. I actually I haven't read this article, so I don't know for sure, but I can lump it into two different categories. Is there's the teams. There's and there's the New England's of the world and the New Orleans. And New Orleans has a hell of a roster. Don't get me wrong. At Green Bay. I know the

Packers won six games last year. I don't care. There's that category of quarterback where you're in the conversation no matter what Seattle now. And then there's a group of teams and the ones you listed come to mind of you've got all the pieces, and enough of it is cheap that you've got the cap space that it makes sense, and I don't like to think of it in terms

of like a one off. I mean, you know, the Saints probably should have been in the super Bowl, and fluke circumstances kept them out, and that happens every year. This is such a parody driven league. I mean, you know Dez caught it right or even you know the Packers won that game and then they're up twenty points in the fourth quarter and they don't go to the

super Bowl. Like I prefer to think of it in a two three year window, and I think the teams you listed are all set up to be very successful in this two three year window, and I definitely think the Cowboys are one of them. And I think the quarterback in the head coach you mentioned the head coach, I think those are the two parts to me that can affect the rest of the list. Depending on how good they are, you may have to have less of

these other parts. If you have a Tom Brady and a Belichick together, then to me, although he makes the arguments that they have all those other pieces, I think all those other pieces would be moderate pieces on other teams. But because you've got such a great head coach, in my opinion, first, and then you have a great quarterback. It allows you to get away with using lesser players in some those other roles and you're still able to

win super Bowls. And I think what Dave was saying is there's a few of those teams with those quarterbacks like that that can do that. Right The Saints, though, to me, seem are they on that list? Actually they're on the list of teams that are close but not quite there. And his whole argument with them was they

don't have the offensive line. They don't have three of those guys, which when we get into ours a little bit, I think you can start making some arguments whether the Cowboys have right now as we stand, do they have three great offensive linemen? Do they have three guys that at their positions are considered across the league some of the best. And I don't know if you can make that argument right now, but we'll get into that a

little bit, can I will? Okay, so good, let's let's have that conversation and let's talk right about these different positions on the Cowboys franchise. Quarterback obviously, he says, daku three offensive linemen. Tyrn Smith Zach Martin, Travis fred Fred, Travis Frederick. Obviously the question mark there is Travis Frederick. Offensive playmakers, he says Zeke Amari Cooper and Jason Witten, which I thought was a bit curious, but we'll talk

about that. Two pass rushers obviously DeMarcus Lawrence and Robert Quinn. They have other guys that could potentially step up, so I think this is an area that probably makes some sense. Um. And then three defensive playmakers Jalen Smith, Layton Vander esh and he throws in Byron Jones. Barron Jones a good player. I don't know if he's a playmaker. He's not a playmaker. He prevents plays, which is really important at that position,

but he's not making plays right now. And I think that's what the hole, not the hold up, but I think that's what the hesitation is to pay him a lot of money. But really good player though, And he got into the the Pro Bowl without an interception, which is which is unique, you know, for this team. But I don't know if he's a playmaker, but I you know, that's that's still I mean, a good he's a really

good player. This is an example I think in his article where he describes the blue players as he calls them, the players that are top ten at their position around the league. I think this is a situation where you could have a Byron Jones who could be considered a blue player let me, but may not necessarily be a

play Let me change that. You know what, if you're throwing a deep ball in third and nine and he's knocking the ball down or he's contested and you're getting off the field, you made a play, you know, So I'm not going to call him not a playmaker. He's not getting an interception or a turnover, and he knows that. He says that's the number one thing he's got to change this year. But he's making plays by getting off

the field. So let me enough that you call them playmaker though, see, I think you're right the first time, and all due respect to Byron, I'll be the one to bring up Earl Thomas this time since you usually do it. But who oh, it was coming. It was coming. Go back to Week three in Seattle, Like, when was the last time the Cowboys had a dB that just completely took over a game like that? And that hasn't finding as a playmate and that's not on this roster.

But it's not right. Not in the secondary. Nope, Yeah, I mean Jalen and Layton one hundred percent. I'm very comfortable listing them as playmakers. They forced fumbles, they intercept the ball. I think they make key stops. Layton had more interceptions than any dB on this team, team or tied. Like, I mean, yeah, go for it, y'all. Y'all deserve that title. I don't feel comfortable listening a dB on this team as a play maker. I think Byron Jones is a hell of a player. I hesitate to put that label

on him. Okay, so that's one position that we have a question. More like to me, that's like the cherry on top type of stuff, like I feel good enough with him. Yes, you want interceptions, you want them to get the ball back. But I think he deserved to go to the Pro Bowl. I kudos to the league for having the wherewithal to give him that without the turnovers,

because there's more to life than turnovers. Coverage is important, but in a league where in a league where like seventy five to eighty percent of the games or a coin flip, that is kind of important. You need a guy who can give you a short field once every other game or do something like that. You know, I think, yeah,

you know, go ahead, you were saying something. No, I was just gonna mention, like as far as corner, he would be the one that I feel the best like in recent time like that, I feel good about having him on the field, Like the copy was having really had a good corner like that to where you feel come to well enough and he was able to make

that happen last year. Yeah, And I think the stretch there is that having a team with five dynamic players is that's a lot on defense, and that's kind of what he's asking two pass rushers and then three playmakers, where if those guys were doing their job where we call them pass rushers, then they are playmakers as well. Yeah, it's kind of I mean, not consider DeMarcus Lawrence a playmakers. DeMarcus Lawrence is the best playmaker on the team because when you factor what he does in the one game,

he's the best playmaker on the team. So they're they're good there. You know, he's asking for five difference making players and whether or not he's getting an interception or not, he's making a difference for sure. He made it all pro Byron Jones. So yeah, I think we're there. He's not a catalytic playmaker, but he's definitely doing his job. Okay, let's go back up to the offensive line, and they

had He says, you need three dynamic offensive lineman. I think as of two years ago, there wouldn't even be a question. We would just go right over this and move on to the next thing. But I do think with Travis Frederick having missed the season, with him coming back from an injury that is not your typical Hey, I've broke this bone and it takes this long for the bone to heal because there's a lot of unpredictability,

if that's a word around this kind of ailment. Do you guys feel like right now the Cowboys can feel confident in the fact that they've got three difference making offensive linemen on this team. You're right, I want to I'm like, if anybody deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's Travis Frederick. He's definitely in that category of player. But you're right, this isn't a broken bone or a ligament,

and it's it's something that bears watching. I have every confidence he can work himself back into being that caliber of player, But I hesitate to just assume it'll happen, you know. But but you know, here's where I will

argue with that notion. There is that if I'm sitting here with a you know, a right guard, a right tackle, and a center that are all pro let's somewhere some AFC team, But my left tackle, my left guard or issues, you know, and I have an Eric Flower's type of guy on the left side where you know, I've got to give help to all the time, then yeah, I got three studs over here. I mean, Joe Thomas was great for years for with Cleveland, but I don't know who else was good with him. I would rather I

would rather not have three all pro guys. I'd rather have five guys that are pretty good that we're all rated first round picks. You know, Lyell Collins is very very serviceable, if not good on the right side. Connor Williams as a rookie, if this is the floor for Connor william He's gonna be fine. So I would rather have five guys like that than just say, do I have three all pros? Maybe? Maybe not, But I know my five, it is probably as good as anyone else, you know, so it is a unit more than any

other football kind of question. That little bit I get. You need some elite guys that you don't have to worry about Zachbard, you don't have to worry about that. But and knowing that when a player gets hurt, you're gonna be mine with the backup, like we saw Sat Martin go out. Obviously, Travis Frederick was out the whole season, so Filo when he went out. So it was good this year when you saw all these different types of injuries that you had a backup that was able to

come in and do the job. Yeah. Frankly at the center position, you got one that you feel pretty good about. He played all last year and played pretty well. Loonie, Suahilo and Fleming on top of the five that are starters. I don't think there's a team in the league from

one to eight that's better than that. Yeah, but they were still second in the league in sacks allowed, which that is something that will have to be better if this is a team that's gonna true take the all important and they couldn't move those Rams guys out of the way. They really couldn't. I mean, Travis Frederick playing at his normal level could be so big for this team. And I hope for the Cowboys and for him that

that you know, this will be a natural progression. You know, there's debate, you know, people that have had GIAMA are a syndrome or like, this is a thing that takes a year or more to really get back from speed. But then you're also like, well, Travis Fredericks an NFL athlete, He's got access to rehab, and he's got the genetics that might make this an easier transition for him. But I've heard an NFL athlete who's gone through the same exact same thing it takes a year to come back.

We will have to see, Like I said, like I want to just assume that he will plug right back in and be an all pro I hope that happens, but I think it would be a mistake to just

assume that that's the case in late April. Do you think because of his stature on this team as one of the leaders, that the Cowboys, even if he isn't really back to being himself and he's maybe not even the best center that they got, you think they would actually make him a backup this year and let him keep working his way back, or do you think that because of his stature they're putting him out there if he can go. I think Travis is the type of player and person that won't allow that if he can't

do what he needs to do physically. And he's even said that in his in his UM interviews here. Recently, he had a story that Robert Phillips wrote on our site about right now, it's great, I'm and making progress, but we don't know until we really get the pads on, and I have to go block Antoine Woods and keep him from getting back there. By the way, that's when

we first started realizing something. We didn't know what was wrong, but we knew it wasn't Travis Frederick, right, And so you know, he's he's like, let's see, we'll see what happens. And so I don't think if it's if he's not better than Joe Looney, I don't. I mean, what's Jason Garrett holding on for. I mean, he's got to make sure that that his job's on on the I mean, you know, there's no playing favorites anymore. The flip side

got bigger problem right now, let's go. Yeah. The flip side of that too, is you know, maybe Travis Frederick, who's at seventy five percent, is still better than a lot of centers. I don't know. We'll have to see that maybe. And that's the question, like what percentage does he have to be back to where he's better than

what you got from Looney? That's the question. Great, and and that's not But the thing is, that's not a that's not a black and white no. That is a lot of that is based upon kind of just your feel what you see, and you're kind of making some you know, you're kind of extrapolating what you make it will be in the regular So also his awareness and stuff. He's sitting there in the middle of the of the line. How much is he gonna help Dak? How much is

he gonna help Connor Williams over here just having him around? Is? I mean? I'm not, no, I get that. Here's my other part to that, though, is I think Luney's a fairly smart guy. He is after doing a whole season, how much better is he at that now than he would have been a year ago? I always, I always

struggle with I love that guy's good. No, just you know, people love to look at it like a game of Madden or like inc double a football is like, all right, you go to the rating, you go to the off season, and it's the off season, so like you're gonna get better, Like he's gonna get seven points better and he's back from injury. Like that's how it works in video games and that's not how it works in real life. And that's always something you have to keep in mind. All

we're gonna take our first break. We'll come back and I have a question for you guys around the three offensive playmakers. Jason Witten was on that list. I don't want to know. Do you guys think he should be? Should the Cowboys consider him to be on that list?

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get to the draft. I promise we'll have some questions here about the draft and how this is good this but for nothing. We're starting by talking about this from the standpoint of how you might want to say that around right. Um. We we're talking about this from the standpoint though, of how a team is constructed, how a super Bowl caliber team is constructed, from the eyes of the former scout Bucky Brooks who writes for NFL dot

com and article he put out. So we've talked about kind of what we think about the franchise quarterback idea. We talked about the offensive line, we talked about the defensive playmakers. The other thing that was curious to me is that he said the Cowboys have three offensive playmakers. Uh. He named Zeke which we agree on, Amari Cooper obviously,

and then he mentioned Jason Witten. My question for you guys is should the Cowboys go into this season expecting that Jason Witten will be a playmaker of that caliber for this team after being off for an entire year. No, I don't really think you can expect that, And I don't know if he was really a playmaker. He was not that caliber before he retired, So no, I don't.

I don't. I wouldn't put him in there, really, I kind of I will make the argument that that's I do think maybe maybe not toward the end of right before you tire, but his career I think is marked by being That was what was so remarkable to me about him is he was a playmaker. There were moments in games where teams wanted to take him away and they couldn't take him away. He wasn't fast, he wasn't quick, but it just worked like he had a way of finding a way to get open and Vall gets to

him and he makes the catch. Now, he's not gonna run for most times, not gonna run for some long run after the catch, but he'll get you that needed first down at critical moments in games. Right, So from that standpoint, I do think he was a playmaker. I just don't know that. I think he is still a playmaker that that remains to be seen. For me, was one. I wouldn't put him in there right now. I think

you're being liberal with the definition of playmaker. And Jason Witten has a useful purpose and everything you just said is true. He can help this offense. He can know like he's a genius. He's got a master's degree in route running and finding the open space. Those they do, they do. Actually that's hanging over locker. Um, yeah, it's tennis. It's the nine Pro Bowl Stars. That's here you go or whatever. Ten eleven. I'm like, I don't count him. Um,

he can do all that stuff. He'll be there on third down and he'll probably catch somewhere between two and five touchdowns, which he touchdowns have never been the big thing for him. I don't know which. And again, what's what are we calling a playmaker? Like? I think a playmaker can be a guy that in critical moments moves a chain for you regularly, that's a playmaker. Playmaker, in my opinion, is a guy who, like you, hold your breath because when the ball's going his way, you don't

know what's going to happen. Like, playmaker to me is like, oh, Dad threw this eighteen yard passed to Amari Cooper and now he's running eighty yards for a touchdown. Like that's a playmaker. That's the case. I don't know how in the world Bucky Brooks Brooks because that's never been Jason Witten's game. So how in the world could he put Jason Witten. You have to tie in Dak Prescott and what Jason means to Dak Prescott safety blankets. You're yeah, yeah,

so I thought that's where you were going. But go ahead, as your point, well, just having him there, if whether that's catching or blocking, just having went in there, and what he means, how he helps death and especially like for example, what he can do in the red zone, in the end zone, you know where the Cowboys had so many troubles last year. Plugging him back in, whether or not he's the one catching that ball, is still going to be a difference maker. I do agree with that.

I agree that. I agree with that, But what I'm saying is is that he's putting all this while your franchise quarterback. Is this the reason why he would be in the conversation as of being a franchise quarterback is because he is an offensive playmaker. He is one of your guys. He and he's one of the guys that when you get down in the red zone he needs to have. You know, his ability to roll out there

and make plays is what you know. The past to Beasley one of his greatest plays ever against the Giants. I mean it was his mobility to get out there, the arm strength to throw it, rolland left like that. He probably could have run it as well. That's a playmaker.

And um, you can't tell me that when Carolina was doing its thing a couple of years ago that Cam Newton wasn't a franchise quarterback and an offensive playmaker for them and other defense when they're you know, trying to plan what they're gonna do on the field, they're gonna pay more attention to it. With Jason Witten, then Blake Jarwin or Dalton Schultz or whoever else is in there.

Difference maker for sure. Yeah, playmaker. Like you know, back in the day, ESPN used to have a three minute highlight package where they covered every single meaningful play in the game, and now it's more like twenty seconds. If you're a playmaker, then your highlights are in that twenty seconds. You know what I mean, Like you tell the story of the Eagles game in Amari Cooper play not showing

I mean borderline guys. I mean if if Jason Witten was a playmaker at some point, Rainal Cobbs certainly was that well at that I was going next, That's what I was going to My question was gonna be from what we've seen so far, and I'll make the argument for two. Do you think Gallop or Cobb ends up being really your third playmaker on this team on this on Williams, Hey, well, I hope not. Then you drafted I did, but I hope. I mean, if he is a playmaker for this team, that means Zeke's not on

the field necessarily. And I was gonna go there next. But let's take one thing at a time. Do you think Cobb or Gallop jump around? No, you think Cobber Gallup have the potential, based on what you've seen in their career so far, Yeah, have the potential to be that third playmaker for theself. I do. I think Cobb has has the ability to be that guy and I mean, I think Beasley was a playmaker at times. And when you get Whitten on there, you're gonna get tomorrow, you

getting Zeke. You know you can't cover everyone. And I still think Cobb has the ability to do some things like that, So I would put Randall Cobb in that ability. And who'd you say? Cobb and Gallop? Gallop? And I actually think Gallup has, in my opinion, has more of an opportunity. You go to what dave definition of the playmaker, the guy that you see in those highlights. I know there were enough times last year when Cowboys took shots and there was an opportunity and it was just a

little off. I expect that this year those seeing those times when it was a little off, they should be able to connect on those And if they do that at that rate of the amount of times we saw it last year, Gallup will be a guy that is regularly being seen. He will be, for lack of a better way to put it, your Alvin Harper, he will be a guy that can go down feel and make some plays and you're seeing it regular and defensive are now having to think about Michael Gallops down the sideline.

Somebody better be back there to make sure if he catches the ball, he didn't end up in the end zone. True, I agree with that, and I mean I hope, I hope the Cobbs signing pans out as well as I can't as well as it could, because that you're talking about a guy that averages sixty yards per season for his career, and that's with a couple of injury hobbled seasons, forty touchdowns, twelve yards per per catch for his career. Again,

all improvements over Jason Witten. No disrespect to him, but that's I mean, he can do all the things Cole Beasley can and adds more of a big play and downfield element, and I think that could be huge. There's a lot to like about this cob There is what about missing inside joke? Okay, Nick likes to throw two or three of those in there inside. You know what, I think it's very exciting when you look at this roster, especially in the offense. On the offense that it doesn't

matter who's being blocked. Let's say Amari Cooper can't make a player or whatever you feel good enough with whoever else is open that it would be able to catch that ball and do something with it, as opposed to let's say last year, where it was kind of like up in the air and you don't really trust many of those receivers at times. So now it's the point that you just feel good, you don't care. Just as long as one person is open and can do something,

you feel confident. That's the pick your poison type of strategy. The weird thing about this whole offseason is is when you talk about offense, you got a lot of things to be excited about, but the last time they were on the field, they were pretty much shut down at least from the running game, and everything we saw last year is different because there's a new coordinator. It's hard to build on that because you don't really know what Kellen Moore is, how different he's going to be than

Scott Lanahan. You hope there are some some big differences, especially with red zone play calling, so it's it's kind of hard. That's what's what's weird about this is that you really can't build off of, you know, last year, because you've got a new play caller. Here's the thing, as we went through this list, there seems to be two areas that probably we had the biggest questions about. Again, I think we kind of feel like they're answers for all of them. But if you had to identify, it

would be the offensive playmakers the defensive playmakers. So basically playmakers guys that are making big plays for you offensively or defensively. My own opinion of this is that when you're talking about the draft, particularly when you're you don't have a first round pick, there are two positions I think that typically you can find good quality can probably throw offensive guard in there as well, but there are two positions where you can usually find good value second, third,

fourth round, that being safety and running back. So let's talk about those two positions from the standpoint of the second round. Would you, guys, be willing to use a second round pick on a running back? I know what Stephen Jones says. He says, you kind I really want your second round pick to be playing. But in a situation like this where if you got a versatile running back who has the ability to do more than just line up in the backfield, maybe he lines up in

the slot, sum maybe he does some other stuff. He can spell zeke at times, would you be willing to use a second round pick on that kind of running back. What did you say the positions were? I'm sorry, The positions running back and safety seem to be positions you can get value later in the draft, right, exactly right? Well, well, well, I would either be later second rounds. I disagree about safety completely, but you disagree that there is value later

in the draft. I think if you're trying to find a difference maker in terms of upgrading your roster at safety, it had better be a top sixty pick or even top forty. And so let me let me define that again. I may have missed said that. What I'm saying is in the second round. By the time the Cowboys pick, you could still find value at those two positions, good value, really good value, just as opposed to pass rushers. He'll

get him on the the top ten. You're probably not get him, right, But the safety you got to hope that your defense can cover up his flaw whatever he's got something, or he wouldn't last the fifty eight, right? Did he not time fast enough? Did he did he not have a lot of interceptions? Is he kind of light? You know? Does he not tackle? I mean just things like that that that drop him which I guess you could make

the argument with every position. I'm getting dropped. I'm getting ready to speak out of both sides of my mouth because I did mock Trayvion Williams to the Cowboys at pick number ninety. But there's so much value to be found at that position that you should not have to do it at fifty eight, especially when you already have an all pro on the team. And yeah, I mean you might get a guy that can do all that stuff. You can find that guy in the fifth round too.

Here's here's why the caveat to that is, this is a decision that needs to be made right now, and I'm sure it has been. This is Stephen Jones, Jerry Jones, Will McClay, Garrett. I guess it's a philosophical decision. So this is a what are we doing with Ezekiel Elliott, which, by the way, he did. They did give him his fifth year option today, which isn't you know that wasn't earth shattering. We knew that was going to happen. But

are they planning on signing him? If they're like, you know what, we might just say let's go for two years and then we'll just see. If that's the case, then fifty eight makes it is a different But can you do you have enough information to make that kind

of decision right now? The argument I would make is for a running back like it, the drop is precipitous and it happens quickly, and they're always every time they touched the ball, there's a chance for injury, and that injury could change the complexion of who they are as a player. If you've got two years left on a deal with a running back, I would suspect that right now you cannot make a well informed decision about what you're gonna do in two years from now on a

running back. Well, that's fair because DeMarco Murray was basically like out of league two years after he was NFL Offensive Player of the Year, and he was he was older than Zeke at that point, much older. I feel

like at least two or time. Girls is a good example. Yeah, what happened this year, Like by the end of the year, and I don't know this, I just I've said it before, like I feel like running back was making so much progress in terms of regaining some of its lost value, and all of a sudden, like people are worried about Todd Gurley's knee, and you're seeing it trend right back the other way, and Pittsburgh will just let leveyon Bill walk.

I mean like those kinds of things. In early February stirred no. In early March, Stephen Jones said, like, you know, Gurley's the jumping off point for Zeke, and we'll get that done when we can. And they still might. I haven't heard anything to suggest that they won't, but they can change their mind. They got him under contract for two examples. Aren't aren't really fair to Zeke? Because number one, yeah, they let leveyon Bill go and they missed the playoffs.

I mean, Leon, that was a difference maker. This guys led the league in rushing two of the three years he had the incident, which we all. I don't know, but I'm not putting words anyone else's mouth, but I think it was a bogus situation for him to be suspending for six games like that. This team did not make the playoffs and he still almost had a thousand yards. He is an absolute difference maker with no injury history, like Todd Gurley, and just like Levion Bell when he

wasn't in there. The team dropped off. So he's done everything he's supposed to do. And if you're gonna make this deal, I would do it right now. I've said it, yeah, and I agree with you. I'm saying, though, that's if you're gonna go ahead and resign him now, so that you get the benefit of having a deal that doesn't start in two years. It starts now, right so that I agree with you. I'm saying, if they're not ready to do that now, then I think you wait, because

I don't think you can. Going back to your the example you were given about the draft, I don't think right now they can say what's gonna be the health of this running back in two years? Because the amount of times they gave him the ball last year, they keep up that pace, I don't trust it in two years he's two years, he's gonna be injury free, because that's a ton. I mean, that's a word. And Jerry and talked about it in a couple press conferences ago where he said, hey, a lot of times we gave

him the ball, like we gotta do something different. We can't expect to give him that workload. But if they don't. They don't get a viable secondary option, and they keep giving him that kind of workload. I don't trust it. In two years he's gonna be help. You don't have, Like Dave said, you don't have to go to the fifty eighth pick in the draft to get a solid backup running back that can spell zeke and run behind

this line. You can get a guy in the fifth round that you would be impressed with and be like, huh, you're not asking him to do a lot. We're asking him to get ten carries, catch the ball a little bit, and he gets the run behind this line. He's pretty good to take that to the safety position. Would you guys be willing to look at fifty eight for safety? I think fifty eight is I think safety is what they want to spend pick fifty eight on the need to get it. Can you get a playmaking safety at

fifty eight? Probably not if you get really lucky. That's I mean, how do you have to go and get us playmaking safety? That I mean? Welcome to and I'm not trying to be facetious, like, welcome to the debate we've been having on the Draft show for three months. Because this is a deep safety lass. But there is a drop off at a certain point, and it's right around where the Cowboys are picking the caveat there is this is this is gonna be one of the most

unpredictable drafts in recent memory. I think, I mean, the number one overall pick is probably gonna be Kyler Murray, but that's still a question. Well, I don't think I think they're full of crap. I think the Cardinals are full of crap. I think they're gonna pick him. Point being the guy that's probably gonna go number one is like consensussly considered like the fifteenth best prospect in this draft. So that throws everything off. And then the number one

prospect is Nick Bosa. He'll will go right after that, and then it's literally beauty in the eye of the beholder for the rest of the way down. Like you're seeing Variances on grades between you know, Brian Burns is a pass rusher that Dane Brugler thinks is the tenth best prospect in this draft. Brian brought us thinks he's fifty and you see you see Variances like that. It's huge spirit you're talking. I mean, let's go through the

list of safeties. Taylor rap is considered like the most well rounded safety in this class, but his projected mid first round though he's no his grade is everywhere from late first round to maybe the Cowboys could draft him because he ran a four seven forty. People are out on his athletic ability. Jonathan Abram a guy the Cowboys are absolutely smitten with. Again, more of a box safety, thumper, doesn't have the range that makes him elite. So does

he go in the first round? Probably not. He's probably pegged somewhere between thirty two and forty five. Juan Thornhill his versatility. I've seen him everywhere from thirty five to sixty five. Chauncey Gardner, Johnson the kid out of Florida, samething like it's all about who's rating these guys. You'd be willing to jump up to forty five to get one of those guys who really love It's the conversation we had last night. We did a seven round mock

for the Cowboys. In this mock, which again we're gonna be wrong, Like there we're gonna see guys going in the first round that we didn't expect. We're gonna see guys falling. I'm very confident of that. But you actually might get a really great player at another position that you didn't expect to be there, like defensive tackle where it's pretty deep. Right, completely explains why the Cowboys have

done so much diligence with so many different positions. That's why running backs with high grades were brought in, and wide receivers. I really think safety and d tackle or the spots they're focusing in on though. But so last night, in this exercise, Taylor Rapp, who is most people's best all around safety prospect, he fell to I think forty nine, And so you're faced with the prospect of, well, we'd love to trade a fourth round pick to go up and get this guy. But is that enough of a price.

Probably not, because it's all up to the team that's trading back. So are you willing to trade pick ninety to go get a guy you really love at forty nine? And that's maybe a decision they'll have to make. All right, let's go and take our final break. We'll come back. Let's get some questions. Eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven is our number again? Eight eight

eight eight five five, two, two nine seven. We'll also ask these guys to give us a few names of guys that they will be watching this weekend second and third rounds, and maybe even some sleep. We'll do that when they come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. While the player can look good on paper, it's when he's out on the field that you really find out what he's made of. That's why the Cowboys rely on more than just stats and scouting reports when

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America's team. Find Steps and hats in the pro Shop or at Stetson dot Com. Today, back to the Break Welcome back. It's the final segment of Break Live from the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star and we got we're talking about draft a little bit. We're talking about which deed what the Cowboys need in order to make a kit Super Bowl contender. According to Bucky Brooks and his article on NFL dot com, We're gonna take some questions and numbers eight eight eight eight five five two

two ninety seven. I guess let's go and jump into that, and then we'll save for a little bit later for you guys to give us some names of some players in this draft that fans should be looking forward to in the second, third round and maybe even some sleepers. Let's take a call right now from David and North Carolina. David, what up? Hey guys? How are you doing everything you do? You gotta do a great job. Thank you. I've actually

got a couple questions. The first question is everybody seems to be talking about Joe Looney as a backup center and nobody seems to be talking about him as a backup left guard. Why are they just giving that job to Connor? Seems like Joe would be in better I mean, he'd be in tune with Travis Frederick because I mean, he spent so much time in the film room and playing center. Seemed like he might be a better choice if you're gonna put your best five linemen on the

on the field. And then my second question is it seems like the safety thing. I'm not totally sold on that because I haven't seen the team lose a Super Bowl because of a safety, but I've seen the team lose a Super Bowl because of defensive blind play. So I just want to get your thoughts on that, and I'll hang up and listen to what you guys have to say. All right, thanks for a call. I saw a team win a Super Bowl because of a S

fifty two months ago. Mccordy play was unbelievable, yep, I mean incredible, and I have no faith that anybody on the Cowboys roster right now could have made it. Well I do, I agree. I mean line play. Line play is much more important in the grand scheme, but they defensive even three technique is probably one of the more important positions. This is a good football team right now and it needs you know, you're just finding a spot. That's what our safety is. It's like, all right, where

can they be better at? I mean, no one's talking, No one ever is talking about anybody going to the Pro Bowl. It's safety, linebacker. They had one and almost two. They had a defensive line, they've got a receiver, they have a running back that you know, the tied end they're bringing one back. Quarterback is going. No one's ever had a Pro Bowl safety here for a long time. So I mean that's when you're when good football teams are like, how can we make this even better? That's

why safety is even an issue. And this is one of those positions that we've been talking about for a few years now to where it's like, Okay, how can you upgrade it? Or when are you going to upgrade it? And it's kind of getting to that port. I mean, yes, last year they were able to manage through the year, and before that season started we were all talking about safety. Yeah, they didn't happen, and they went through it. They made

it work. But when you're watching games and there's a bad playing like, oh my god, yes, they do need a safety that can do certain things and they don't have that, it's when you know this time of the year comes around again and you start talking about it and you do want to address it because how many more years are you gonna keep waiting on. We's to the first part of his question about the offensive line, particularly Joe Looney. He says he thinks Joe Looney should

be arguably your backup, a backup guard. He said backup. I really think he meant starter. He does he yeah, because he said, why are are you just giving the job to Connor Williams. I don't think you'd be arguing about being a backup. I really believe that what he meant. I thought he made a mistake in thinking that Connor Williams was going to continue to be the backup as he was towards the you know, about the middle last

year when he got hurt and then came back. I think I've heard this argument before is why is Joe Looney not being considered to start at left guard? And I really think that's what he was saying to do you think it from that stamp? Yeah, you think he should? Um? I no, I don't. I don't because I think what you're doing is is and that's not fair to him. But you know, I believe that you're getting more out of your players about having a game day backup as

a three position backup center, two guard spots. I think that's very valuable. You don't have that with Connor, you don't have that with Xavier Sulaphilo. So if Frederick comes back, then Looney is a is a very valuable backup player. And this team wants to be right, they want to show success in the draft, and they want to have Connor Williams be their starting left guard. That's what they want. Well, all teams do, I mean, you want to give your

draft picks a chance. When we just spent the first segment saying, you know, we got to wait and see on Travis, we're not ready to pencil him in as ready to be Travis Frederick. So I don't want Joe Looney to have to learn a new position. If he's going to wind up being my starting center. I like having him there. You're right, you can play all three positions in a pinch. You also have Xavier Suaphilo, who kind of becomes redundant if Joe Looney's starting at another position,

and then Connor would naturally be his backup. So what do you do with Xavier? I mean, I don't want to cut him, So I think I think that's a good problem to have. I'm I'm banking on Connor continuing to improve. I like, I don't think that was a bad pick at all. I'm completely not ready to Yeah, like he's gonna be fine in my opinion. So they've got good depth and that's a good thing coming into this season. Do you expect that Connor or Suaphilo will

be your starting left guard? I think Connor. I mean part of it is I hate to say politics because I don't think it's like Connor's not undeserving. Like what I thought, what you said in the first segment was great, Like if that's his floor, he should be pretty good. Yeah, so he's going to continue to get better. You want to be right, You want your draft picks to play the meaningful roles for you. That's how you win is cheap service for multiple years. I mean, Xavier's in a

contract year now, Joe is too. Connor's got three more seasons to play. It just makes sense. And so it was Lyle Collins or Collins will be Lyles in a contractor contract here. So that's an interesting part of this thing as well. I don't want to give up on Suafilo either. I thought that was a was a very good find, and I think you know he sometimes these players, I just I just think a lot about Colombo, with him drafted pretty high, didn't really work out where you

wanted to be. Now you're kind of humbled a little bit, get another start, surround yourself with better players, and you know you have a different outlook on thing, which if Suefilo just completely outplays Connor and training camp, and I think he would be the starter. But I am willing to give Connor Williams the benefit of the doubt that he will be better. There is no reason why to think otherwise. I mean, when you watched Connor all of last year, you saw improvement game after game, even after

he got hurt and went out. When he went in for Zack, he did a good job. And then when he got back into position went to A Filo went out with an injury, he was able to perform a lot better. So's he's one of those players rookie last year, okay young, and that you're seeing development in progress. So there is nothing that he just kind of right went backwards.

But sue Filo was drafted even higher in his round a few years before that, and he's considered to have just as much, if not more, talents, So you know, yeah, he could play right next to Frederick and Tyrann Smith and play well too. So it's a good problem. And something really special about Sua Filo is how much he cares, how passionate he is about the game. It may not seem like it, but when you look at him around

the locker room, and talk to him or whatever. Just the fact that he would walk in and I would see him. I talk to him a lot. He would walk in and be kind of upset, and I'm like, what's wrong with you? And He's like, yeah, I just I wasn't good enough out of practice and like those little things that even at practice. I'm like, well, it's just practice. This is the time to make mistakes. It's like no, no, no, that's not how you have to

look at it. This is like you have to take it as a game day and just perform how you need to perform. There's no room for mistake. Because that whole thing was happening with Connor and there's that debate. So also his job was kind of on the line or like the starting position. So when you see his players care that much, it shows it starts to translate

on the field. And I think those kind of attitude it's very important if you a lot of a lot of guys there on the offensive line, and I mean, don't want to take this show to another level, but if there is a player that you wanted to pick and you needed to trade somebody, I mean, if you'all even had that, if y'all even had that discussion of which player on this team. Let's say you really wanted a third round pick. We did it with Tank, but

that was before he signed his deal. Not really. I mean, I think the only position you could probably look at what you just have kind of this. I think this dearth of riches is probably offensive line. You can make the argument at a pass rusher. Maybe if you wanted, if you could get some bad about you could Lyle.

That's where I was going. Lyle would be the guy I don't really love plugging it right tackle Well, I mean you gotta again you do that, and then Travis Frederick is not healthy, and then you got now everything is off and you're like, what we thought we were great? Yeah, you got just talking here. I think that would be a spot. But but I wouldn't do it because I'd also be curious to see what you could get for a guy with one year on his deal. It's true.

I don't know. I mean, maybe you could get a third maybe, I kind of I kind of doubt it. I don't know. I think it's throwing a time. I don't know anybody that you would actually want to trade. I don't know if you could get that big a compensation pick for maybe if you if you thought, hey, we are we know from our money standpoint, we're not going to be able to resign Byron Jones. Byron Jones would be a guy and maybe you consider, but you better be drafting somebody because all right now, now you

got a problem. Now you got a problem. No, you don't mess with a second alone. Byron Jones is moving around the facility on crutches right now, like what are you going to get for him? And that's that's true. That was the whole problem with Tank too, right. People had that that argument about what happened with with a guy from Seattle? The guy traded and could you get the same compensation for Tank? Well, the problem was Tank out a bump shoulder, and that always affects what you're

going to get in compensation. I'm losing track of time right now. So Taco third year was entering his third year, entering third Why fast forward two years or one year? Fast forward one year? Do you think that the Cowboys will be giving hiving up his option? If I had to guess, no, what you know what, we didn't think they would pick up Byron Jones exactly, And I think in those situations that's where you wait to see, like, Okay, is this the year when it starts to pop for him?

Is this the year when everybody's like, man, that was a bump year. It was Parcels that said by the third year, right, I mean that's the big Oh, before you get somebody crazy on Twitter because he got that from Tom Landry. So sorry, sorry, Tom Landry. I'm just saying you will get that if you say that that was Parcels this thing. But yeah, a lot of great Hall of Fame coaches have have made that an agree with it. By the third year, it's gonna click, or

it does. But I will say this, I think the caveat to that is by the third year you will probably find if you canna have a great player or not. I don't know if it necessarily mean, because you can put it to a lot of a lot of situations where by the third year you don't get a great player, but by the fourth year you got a guy that's like, oh, he's pretty good. It's not he may not be, yeah, he may not be all pro, but he's a guy

that's pretty good. So I don't know that that always works right from the standpoint of just saying if you're gonna get a really good player versus what happens when you're nearing the end of your contract. Stuff. It kind of delight Sometimes I can't get over the fact of healthy, scratch, healthy scratch, you work healthy, you were ready to go. By the way, at a position that rotates, right, it's a rotational position. And they said, we don't need you today,

we don't need what happened, I still don't know. I mean, Marion Elly doesn't really care who was drafted, what or where and all that. He just says, this squad here and play. And he wasn't really helping him so and that's the part that I think. You know, he was banged up a little, but the trainers will tell you like, no, he was. He was ready to go, and you know, so he that's the start I mean for it being great, being good, how about just playing but being on the field,

and then we'll work from there. He's he's got a long ways to go before he is a productive player. I think, yep, real quick, before we end the show, I do want to give you, give you guys an opportunity to throw out some names of guys here in the second and third round. Cowboys won't be picking until Friday unless they move up into the first round, which would take a ton of resources, which I don't think

probably is gonna happen. But second and third year, maybe second and third years, second and third round picks that will happen on Friday. Give me some names of some guys that fans should be paying attention. Well, we have a video that we will produce, I believe today. If not today, it'll be tomorrow. Uh. And it was a four riders doing a second and third round today. Okay, awesome, And I don't mind previewing that a little bit of some of the names. I from my standpoint, I went

with one Thornhill to safety from Virginia. Um, what does he do well? He is versatility is great. Uh, he's played corner, he's had been had interceptions at corner, He's had interceptions at safety. He can he's really good at tackling behind the line of scrimmage. I think he's anticipates really well. It's got that decent size, a little lanky for a safety, but boy, Christmas Chard would snatch him up to be a corner. So does he not do well? Um,

you know, he whis in the second round. I guess probably when you're a jack of all trades, you're a master of none. So I think that's probably. He's not a shut down corner and he's not a ball hawking safe you know, but he does get to the ball. He had six interceptions last year. I mean, you know, so you can make play again that playmate. I'll say this, I don't think and I know the guys that study this, they really don't think he's a he's a he's a fifty eight. They think it's it's hard you get to

this than you get to this time than that. Yeah, he's probably not gonna be you get to this time of year. And the team that's picking tenth overall is like, nobody's getting to us. We're gonna have to settle on a guy we don't love, which right like, looking at it right now, I don't feel great about what might be there for him. But who knows, you know, That's what I'm saying. Like the very there's so much variation, the grades are all over the board. I think it's

gonna be wild. I think it's gonna be fun. I think if they had their way, they would draft a safety. Want thorn Hills a guy to watch. I mocked them. Chauncey Gardner Johnson out of Florida. Don't think that'll happen either. Um Darnell Savage is a guy to watch. Taylor Rapp and Jonathan Abram and for some reason they were to fall. I think they were like one A and one bum.

And if they can't get a safety, then I think they'll be looking at defensive lineman Jalen Ferguson at a Louisiana Tech as a guy, Tristan Hill out of UCF as a guy. I think those are two big names worth circling. And everyone knows this team needs a safety. They've talked about it so many times. So if you're sitting at fifty eight and here's a guy you like at fifty two fifty three, when what's they gonna take

to get up there? A fourth rounder? Conceivably yeah, because you know someone's gonna gonna try to maybe jump you and go we want a safety. Two. But you gotta get in front of Dallas. So even though they try to say, wow, we don't need a safety, we don't need to safety. We got George A Loco. I mean, we were good there, but I don't know. And then without a first round picks. This is what happens a lot of times. This team will go backwards. We think

they're gonna go up. They might even Gowards to try to stop because they're like, if we need a safety, we just gotta get above Dallas. As long as we stay ahead of Dallas, we can get the guy maybe we want, because ten years ago, I mean, you just kept going back. You just kept getting twelve picks. And surely if you pick twelve guys, somebody's going to be

a stud. Honestly, if they were to do that, it wouldn't bother me because the options that I think are going to be there for him at fifty eight are not great. But if you could trade back to sixty five and add another pick or two in there, then I feel better about it. You know, Tristan Hill is a guy like fifty eight sounds rich for me, but I'm listening in the sixties. Maybe it just like I said, like, we did a mock draft on the show last night, and like halfway through it, I was like, I don't

love what we're coming away with here. We got. We got Tristan Hill, tray ViOn Williams. We took a safety and of a pass rusher in the fourth, um added a special teams linebacker in the seventh. Our fifth round pick. Oh man, I'm drawn a blank. I think we got a wide receiver drinking at this place. It was yeah, I mean the big ones. The big ones were Tristan Hill. I see the video yesterday. The big ones were Tristan Hill and Treyvion Williams. Which you know, again you're talking

about value. You're picking at the end of the round. So pick pick nineties, basically a fourth roun pick. It's higher than I would want to pick a running back. But Trevion Williams led the SEC and rushing. He's an all around guy. I think he could step right in and play if for some reason Zeke was unavailable. It's not what I would prefer to do. But again, you're at the mercy of what so many other teams do that. First of all, it's incredibly hard to forecast, and beggars

can't be choosers. So it's gonna be interesting. I think it's gonna be fun because there's gonna be so many surprises. So many unpredictable things happen, and I think it'll be even more so this year. So hell, maybe they'll come away with the safety. I just say this. The beauty of what they did in free agency is that they've they've basically cleared up all their holes. So to me, don't be afraid to take even if it's in the

second round. If you're if the running back that's on the board is so much better than any other position, don't be afraid to take the pick because I think right now they can only get better by getting more talent of playmakers. Right so, and you can find a way to figure out how to get them into the into the game and use an the only position, and you can't do that as quarterback. Every other position you

can rotate. So try get the best available player, and if you do that, I think they'll come out of this jag. I agree with. I would feel so much better if they did that with a wide receiver. That's what I've been saying all along. Deebo Samuel from South Carolina. He's there and he's the best guy, Go go for it. I don't think they will. Maybe they won't. I think they are hell bent on coming away with a defender at pick fifty. I think that's where I think you

get into problems. A sneaky need here is cornerback. I really do. I think that it's something to considers. It just you don't know what what's gonna happen with Byron you don't know, you know, with with Jordan Lewis, and you know Anthony Brown will be a free agent. I think you need to look at corner and that's why those two we just talked about, Thornhill and Gardner Johnson are safety slash corners, and it's like you're getting a poor man's Byron Jones kind of. Richard's been scouting corners

for the last two months. So don't forget a little bit. Nothing should surprise you. I like a little bit and do. The only thing that should surprise you is if they draft a quarterback. That's the only thing. Yeah, exactly. That's why I don't even think that would be that surprise unless you kicker. I mean, they could, I don't think they will. But all right, we appreciate you guys joining us.

We'll be back next week. Make sure you take to stay tuned for all of our draft coverage coming up tomorrow, Friday and Saturday. We appreciate you guys joining us. Still in for Nick Eatn, Dave helm At, Amber Garcia. I'm Derek Eagleton. This has been the Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio Hole. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.