Cowboys Break: Strong First Impressions?

We're locked in s WBC Mortgage Studios. At the start, We've got an hour of Cowboys Talk for you guys today, and we're gonna talk a little bit about the coaches. They met the final the staff has been finalized, and they met with the media earlier this week. We're gonna talk about some of the things that stood out as we talk to them a little bit later in the show.

We're also going to get into finishing up ore We've been doing this the last two shows, but finishing up our evaluation of the free agency market, particularly the Cowboys free agents, and and whether the Cowboys shouldn't move on for those players or keep them or sign them, or how big, what priority they should be. I think we have the secondary left to do, and there are a ton of guys in the secondary. They we'll have to talk about in that way, and then in the third

segment we certainly will get into some questions. You guys can call us numbers eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven, or you can hit us on Twitter. You can hit my Twitter account at Derek Eagleton. I'll take your questions there and we'll get into some good Cowboys talk. How's ever ready doing today? Great? Darren? Out of breath, just listening to you there. Man, gotta go, man, you gotta gotta Well. It feels kind of weird because I mean, you guys did a show last week. Yeah,

we're back here hanging out. But y'all, yeah, yeah, y'all, y'all did a show last It's still just where you're doing it once a week though, it does. But but I'm liking it. Yeah, I'm not playing. I'm liking it. Sorry, everybody do it? Yeah? All right, So let's jump in earlier this week, the Cowboys coaching staff. The new coaching staff on their only two holdovers. I guess if you count Leon, that would be three. He counts well, but

he's not like he's like an assistant position coach. If you're thinking, yeah, the coordinators and the position coaches, there two, but but Leon is an assistant defensive line coach. But three holdovers. Um, So let's go around the table. I want you guys just tell me as you were talking to the coaches. It could even be a lot that you just thought of as at just how the staff

was put together. But I just want to talk about about some of the different things you've noticed, um, that that you've you know, that just caught your attention about this coaching staff. Let's start with you Nick. I think that uh, you know, there's a lot of experience. Obviously that that's one thing that stands out the most. But I just think it's a good mixture of a lot of different things. You've got guys that have been head coaches,

you have eyes that have been college coaches. In the Marissa Linquist, you have um a culture coach pretty much. I mean the assistant head coach, Rob Davis is a culture coach. I just think it's a it's a good mix of a lot of different things that it's not this is what we do. That's what we're used to Jason Garrett, And I think it's just it's just a good mixture of of young, old, you know, pro coaches, college coaches, just just a lot of different things to

kind of thrown in here. And I think McCarthy will be the right guy. Hopefully he's the he's the guy the kind of you know, mixes it all together. Yeah, it's actually I did the math on it. I just realized I forgot to include Mike McCarthy in that. So it's this staff has one hundred and sixty five combined years of NFL coaching experience and throw in McCarthy's fifteen, I think, and so well, how to I have no last year? I thought last year? No, no, no, no no, no,

what was happen? Think it was probably be half of that. If I had to guess, Kellen Moore and Colombo, those guys are sitting at one. Colombo, you got Keith O'Quinn with like less than five years of experience, ms only got four or five, two or three. Yeah, it might have been way less difference, Yeah, much different. Uh. Yeah, Like I said, I think they overcorrected. I don't mean that in a bad way. They just were like, we're going to do the opposite of what we were doing before. Right,

there's five guys with head coaching NFL head coaching experience. Uh, there's another two or three that have been coordinators. Some of these guys have had really nice NFL careers. Al Harris is a long time starter in the NFL. Really good player, by the way, Yeah, a really good players game. Leon Lett maybe not on the level that Al Harris was,

but definitely had a long, you know, a nice NFL career. Um, I think he was better than Al Harris, wasn't he You think, Well, I don't know Dal Harris ever make a Pro Bowl. I don't know that. On the top of my head. I kind of think he did too. He was pretty good player for a while. Well, Al Harris didn't have two big blunders on that National TV either.

The point being is talking about guys with like decade long careers, even you know, the lowest guy on the Tone Poles probably Scott Tolziene and he played in the league for a while. Yeah. So yeah, I mean that's the thing that jumps off the page to me. The other thing I tweeted that out and a few people were like, well, do you worry that that's kind of a too many cooks in the kitchen type of situation.

And I don't think so, because the other thing is like, this is going to sound bad, But these are not like ascending coaches, you know what I mean. These are not guys that are like trying to climb the ladder and be the like they've done all that kind of like Rob Marinelli. Rob Marinelli's like, I've been there, I've done that. I've had some high highs and some really low lows, extremely extremely low lows. And I don't think

anybody here had a low quite on Rod's level. But these are, like I said, and that doesn't mean they're bad coaches, but they've been through the ringer of the highs and lows of the NFL coaching experience. I mean, they've all been fired multiple times times, they've had failed head coaching stints, and again I don't necessarily think that means they're bad coaches, but I think when you've been through that, you're a little bit more content to just

kind of be like, let's let's go with that. You're more thankful for the job actually, and you're not just doing this looking for your next opportunity so much. Yea, And I think that could be a good thing. Sometimes there's value in having that experience and knowing, you know, I don't even want the hit guy, Like I don't want to be hit colched anymore. Like I don't know.

I haven't talked to Joe Philbin about that, but maybe Joe Philbin is like I really love coaching offensive line, Like I've had enough of that hit coaching thing in Miami. I'm good if I just coach offensive line from here on out. Mike Nolan may be the same way I tried it in forty with the forty nine ers. I'm just happy being a defensive a defensive coordinator. That's where I want to be. And so there's some value in that. You look at guys like well, if wait Phillips, they're

a good example of that. They're just really good coordinators, really good position coaches don't necessarily have to be a hitler. I don't know about Joe Philbin or Mike Nolan, but I can tell you that's how Jim tom Sula came across. That's my new favorite guy in the world, by the way. He's fun to talk to and he's started like he started out the whole thing. He was like, I'm not good at this media stuff. I just try to get through without cursing. I was like, we're gonna be friends,

you know. But that's been That's also been the experience. I'm sure you guys have added too. Having this, it's almost like a breath of fresh air. Again, nothing against the guys that were here before, but it's been at least three or four coaches that just in our training table, which is the area where we go for lunch, I've just walked up to me and been like, hey, how you doing. My name is whatever? What's your name right? It's just there's a there's a there's an openness right now.

Now that may all change once they start hearing us and we kind of going in on him after a bad game. But it's been really refreshing. And Tom Sulu wasn't a good example that came up. We talked for probably about ten minutes, and it's just a nice seems like a really really nice guys, just very very down to earth. We'll see how well he coaches, but you know, so far, I like the guy. It's funny, I'm stealing

this anecdote from Taylor Stern. But she introduced herself to Mike Nolan the other day, and you know, I I you know, you get to talk to these guys and it's useful and you want to build relationships, but at the same time you want to be like respectful and give them their distance. And so she introduced herself to Nolan and he was like, it's so nice that you came up and said something, because like nobody's talking to us,

like we're like the new kids at school. I was like, y'all feel like the dorky, out of place kids at school because like I'm just trying to be respectful and give it your distance because you're these big time football coaches. But like they feel, I guess out of place because they just got here. And so yeah, like they're eager

to get to know people and have conversations. And it makes me think, makes me wonder if at other teams there's less of the walls that maybe we have here where because of our our roles here, absolutely we tend to you know, we tend to be a little bit more I think forthride in our opinions about the team,

which could you know, create that kind of distance. Not only that, but I think, I mean, I think this is a rare instance of like an NFL building where like the completely non football staff intermingles with the football staff, Like and we don't really count, right because like we do media, we interview these guys, but like you know, the accountants and the lawyers are down there getting lunch next to the coaches and players. I don't think that

happens in a lot of buildings. Amber. What struck you about this coaching staff? Well, you know I always talk about me trying to analyze people and looking at them their behavior, how they move, where they look, and all these things, and this is I mean, it's fun because I can't figure it out, Like I don't know how it all comes together, which is exciting, but at the

same time, the unknown. It's the unknown, like it could go either way, but it's still fun to kind of see all these different guys, different ages, different kinds of experiences to come together and build something new, something that how do you say, he's them fassilas Fossil or Fassi right Fossil? Okay, Well him, I think I really like what he said during his interview. One of the things.

You know, you keep wondering how they're gonna make this Special Teams better from what we've seen in the past years. And something he didn't necessarily go into full details. You know, they're not really going to get into all that, but once something that I liked hearing is the fact of just making the players feel important, making them feel like day don't necessarily get to choose their own players. You know, you have to work when it comes to Special Teams.

You have to work with what you already got in the roster. So being able to have that kind of mentality and being like, you know what, my plan here is to start fresh, clean and just make sure that these players feel like they're important, they are their starters in Special Teams. So that kind of mentality I really really like to hear. Yeah, he was really that was

a refreshing interview. You know. I asked him a bunch of questions there about that, and he, you know, he said what she just said, But you know, hey, it you you matter. It's a third a third a third in McCarty. He goes, Mike McCarthy told me that Special Teams is absolutely on the same levels offense defense. He goes. That's all I needed to hear, So that sounds good.

I just hope that when it comes down to free agency draft things like that, that you're drafting that way and he can get the guys that he wants and more important than cuts, like that's the part where it becomes a big deal is when you start making those cuts, are you factoring in how's this affecting your special teams? That's the part that really it's always like the receiver. It's that fifth guy that's like he's a young receiver

and then receivers coaches like he's going to develop. It's like, okay, but he can't recover a punt. Ventell Bryant can do that. Now, Well that veteran guy. Yeah, that guy you're trying to keep around and he's your third or fourth guy, but he's not gonna help you on special teams. He can't play special teams. Yeah, I got it like that. Yeah, Dave, tell me something that you heard from one of the coaches that that really stood out to you. I spent spoiler alert, I spent a long time talking to Jim

tom Sula. Um nah, No, he's fun to which I mean it's it's kind of it's been a trend. I mean, McCarthy's been saying it is, like, you know, they're just not buying into this hype about like four three verse three four. So then and that was a big part. He had this whole spiel, you know, Tom Seula had this whole spiel. Nick really loved it. He's like, if you're weak, if you're strong side defensive end, stands up, you're playing three four And if he puts his hand

in the dirt, you're playing four three. Like, it's really not it's not that right. He's like, that's what it is. It's kind of true. Which but honestly, that wasn't even the thing that jumped out to me the most. Um. The other thing that I really loved hearing him say, ed Warder was asking him about, um, you know, how do you rotate your guys? That was the thing that

it was a source of consternation all last season. And remember, I think it was the Eagles game or d Law and Quinn were like on the sideline and crunch time. Tom Seula was like, Yeah, I love rotating my guys. If all of them can play. If I look out there and it looks different then we got problems, which love that. Yeah, And he was like he was like my first He's like my first year in San Francisco.

He's like, we had four guys that could rush, And I told him like, if you tap your helmet, I'm looking the other way, like I'm not letting you come out. And if you got a problem with that, you can talk to the guys behind you and help them work their game up, because otherwise you're not coming out. We'll see if that actually we'll see that love it. We'll see if it actually plays out that way. But it

was fun to hear. Yeah. It's funny how just being vocal about something like that can make a difference in our perceptions, you know, how you perceive things, because it could have been the same way last year, even though they weren't doing it on the field, But just admitting that or saying something like that, it makes you feel like, Okay, you feel better, regardless of what the outcome is, but

it makes you feel better. Just like Mike McCarthy when he came up here and did his first press conference, just hearing him being so vocal about things and you're like, okay, yeah, I mean it's just the person, you know, just what Anna do with my hands, I mean, just stuff like that. I mean just yeah, and I think you're seeing the

personality of some of these guys. But that part right there is very very good to hear, just because there was so many times last year when it just felt like third, you know, this is the third rotation, you know, and they got a punt back to the eight yard line, so it's first and ten back at the eight and the crowd's getting involved. This is where you have a chance to really pin them back, and it's like, why is it Armstrong, Hyder, Tristan Hill and Bennett here? Like

why is these the four? Like you know, you know, let's get a safety. Yeah, and they went ninety two for a touchdown, so that didn't really matter, but yeah, he I mean Tom Speueler probably taught like the average these interviews averaged probably I don't know, ten to twelve minutes a piece, Like they weren't these super depth things, but I mean Tom Sewela talked for like twenty five minutes.

It was awesome, and I was just like, thank god we had extra people because I kind of like I looked around, I was like do I need to be somewhere else, and everybody else had a cover, So I was like, cool, because I don't really want to leave. I'm gonna stand right here and talk to Jim tom Sewel you guys talk to me a little bit about Rob Davis. That's an interesting you mentioned it a little earlier. He's a guy's coming in. He as the title of assistant head coach. It's more of a culture coach. Met

him down in the training table. He's just talking about some of the stuff that they're that they're wanting to do, And it was really fascinating to me because I haven't really heard Maybe there are other guys like this around the league, but I hadn't really heard of other teams that had a position quite like this, and especially a position like this that has the title of assistant head coach.

Talking about what you've heard from him and just about what you think this position will be that it's really tough to kind of figure that out. He was asked that question several times about you know, I guess the line from the movie Office Space, like what would you say? What would you say? You do here? Like he asked that question. Now it was several different people, you know, just in a in a nice way, like so what

are you gonna be doing? But he did talk about culture a lot and and kind of coaching the coaches, and he said, yeah, I'll get on the XS and os if I need to, I help the special teams

if I need to. But I think that you know, his his what he's gonna do is is really like any assistant head coach is gonna be kind of the guy that eyes and ears a little bit for McCarthy, but I think he'll do it in a way where he's a part of the team and not like that that assistant that's like, you know, running to the coach and every time you see something you didn't like, is that?

Is it more kind of managing just the culture of what's going on around If a little you know, thing kind of rears up over here, you kind of go and handle it right, you know. And as and as is the case when you've got fifty three men on your team and you got a coaching staff of what, I don't know, fifteen eighteen guys, You're going to have disagreement. You're gonna have things that kind of flare up here and there is that kind of the role that you're expecting.

I really don't know. I mean we've we've heard a lot of things, like from a player development standpoint as well. You know that those are some of the things that he's going to be doing. So and they have a staff already in place that does that. So I think he's gonna be working with a lot of different departments here me reading between the every team in the league has these guys like football ops guys. They schedule things,

they help players with off the field stuff. They you know, he's the I feel like fixer has a negative connotation. I don't mean for it too, but he's just like he's gonna he'll handle whatever issue comes up that a player might need that's not football and nick, I mean, the Cowboys have people in place. Every team in the league has that. Me reading between the lines, I think it's just like McCarthy was like, oh, we already have that staff. Cool, Well, I want him anyway, and I'll

do what I gotta do to get him here. And so he's got this kind of unorthodox position, which doesn't really matter. It's just funny to meet. McCarthy's like, that's great that these guys are here, and that's awesome and they can help us too, But I'm bringing my guy in like that's how I read it. One of the things he said to me that I thought stood out was he said, this isn't gonna be part of my job make sure guys are held accountable. Which it's great.

That's great something theybody who is who's primarily responsible for making sure that people are being held accountable to whatever it is that they're supposed to be doing. I think that's a great role to have on a football team. Again, of that MANI players that many coaches. It's good to have somebody just overall looking at accountability across the entire you know, Mike McCarthy said something a couple of weeks ago. But it's all about the locker room. The locker rooms.

The important part here is is how these players and how they handle things. And here's a quote from from Rob Davis that Johnny Opping wrote on our site. The quote from Rob says, the NFL can provide a lot of distractions for these young men coming into the league. Most of us come from humble beginnings, middle class all the way down to poverty, and sometimes this be pretty big for us when we walk into the NFL. So

he says, they're gonna do the XS and os. I hope to provide assistance with both xs and os, but more importantly in the life and development of the whole player. That's awesome. So that's I don't know if that's vague or not. We're still trying to figure out, you know, what it means. But I mean it's good. I mean, and just talking to him. You've talked to him, and I've talked to him. I mean, it seems like a good guy and a good role for what they're doing here. Absolutely,

all right, let's go and take our first break. When we come back. We're gonna move into our talk about free agency before we do, though, Nick, I did want to hit you one more time. You had you had an interesting thing you told me about a conversation you have with a new wide receiver coach Adam Henry. We'll hit that when we come right back. Then we'll jump into free agency. We'll do that when we come back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Your new apartment's big,

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even a sixty four ounce growler. Check out all the colors and sizes of their elevation tumblers at auterbox dot com. Back to the break Welcome back. We're in the second segment of the Break Life from the s WBC Mortgage studios at the Star. We're talking about some of the coaches and the new coaching staff. Nick. Before we went to break, I wanted you to talk a little bit about at Henry. Yeah, the wide receivers coach. He said, you had an interesting conversation with him, and I thought

it was some interesting things he told you. I haven't written that story yet. But but the thing that he said that that kind of stood out the most is it's very cliche for coaches to say, you know, oh this guy right here, I mean, the players love him. He's a player's coach. He flat out said, I am not a player's coach. I am not a player's coach. I'm a coach's coach. And then okay, what does that mean? And he said, basically, what it means is that I want the players to to, you know, fall in line

with what we're doing as our staff. And this is what we're asking of you. We want you to come into this system and be you know, do things the right way, run the right routes, you know, learn all of these things we're trying to teach you. I'm not trying to be your best friend. I am your coach. And so if that means that I am not a player's coach, fine, I am your coach. And so he was he was like, that doesn't mean that we can't have a good relationship and you can't you know, we

can't respect each other. But I don't like the term players coach. I'm a coaches coach and you're the player. Which that's interesting because Adam Henry twice twice coached Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry, who I don't know that either one of them has a reputation for being easy to coach, and they both adore him. So yeah, absolutely, I think. But you know something, I think sometimes people people tend to adore people that well, I shouldn't say like that.

I think sometimes players they they really like coaches who they know they would always give them the unadulterated truth, and that comes along with being that coaches coaches you're not. You don't care who they are, what their profile is. You're like, I'm gonna coach you, and I'm gonna coach you hard. And I think players sometimes respect And we've

seen this firsthand here. Sometimes somebody of leadership can come into a situation they don't really know them, and you kind of set the ground rules and you come you come across very blunt. We were on a conference call at training camp one time about this, yeah, and it was like, this is how things are supposed to be and where everybody's like, who's this guy? And this isn't fun, you know, And then ever since then you're trying to get to that level and you realize that it was

a plan. Yeah, there was a plan in place, and he got you know, so that might be this might be part of the plan. I'm not a player's coach, I'm your coach. And then you know, like, okay, I respect that. And then every time it's I'm not saying that it's not real. It's just you got these guys building it up to that expectation. In reality, that's kind

of what he's wanting you to do. Yeah, it's kind of like when you're in when you're in grade school, Like the teacher that first day school establishes a fact I'm running this classroom and we're gonna do it my way. You kind of deal with that teacher a little different for the rest of that year than the teacher that comes in and says, hey, guys, it's gonna be a

fun class. Like, you probably have a little different way that you'll deal with that teacher because of how they set things up at the beginning and what your expectations are of them. Remember grade school, Yeah, has it been that long for you? Yeah? Yeah, it has. It's been longer for you, has it? Which is funny because Okay, like two years ago, I'd be like, yes, this is what this receiver room needs. Got Dez, Terrence and Beasley like this is a nightmare. I don't really, I don't

know that. I don't know how hard Adam Henry is

gonna have to work to win that room over. Yeah, but I do think this if you, if you're one of the people that ascribes to the belief that amar Amari Cooper needs more priding, needs more, pushing, needs more, Yeah, somebody to drive him, then maybe you look at this and say, maybe you'll get every ounce of what you think you can get out of Amari Cooper by having somebody who is a hard, hard coach, somebody that really pushes him hard, you might get a better player than

somebody that just maybe coddles him. I'm not saying I don't know if if sanje Lyle coddled him or not. I have no idea. What I'm saying is, though having that hard coach might be a better thing for somebody like that. Maybe he said he didn't say this, but maybe he's got the same thing as Tom Seweler about the rotation. You know, I should have asked him that like fourth and eight with the season seasons on the line, like would you like the best players of who are

you gonna put out there? Yeah, that would have been a good question. You're right, well, you have plenty of time we do to go back around and get that question answered. All right, let's move let's talk about free agency. We've been going through this thing. We've we've gone through the offense now, we've gone through the specialists, and we've gone through the defensive line. We got about halfway through

the linebackers last time. The question really is is the guy a priority free agent, the guy that you have to sign. Is he a guy that you keep if you know, if things can work out, or is he a guy you just let walk because you feel like his time here is done? All right, So let's let's move on with the linebackers. Let's talk about Malcolm Smith. He got here what round week ten, eleven, fifteen sixteen? Oh is that late? Played two games? Played two games? Okay?

How he played Eagles and it sounds right based on that. What are your thoughts on him? Do you think the Cowboys should look at bringing him back or do you think you just kind of let him walk? You know, this thing is always tough because there's a new coaching staff here, so we were always able to answer things of like this is the type of player that he likes or he likes it. So we're still trying to

figure that out. Um. But the type of player, if they're saying what they said all along, is that I like a certain type of football player, the type of guy that can that can get off the couch and go play two games like he did and play pretty well. I think that he showed some signs of something that you can work with there, So you know, and you know, he's a big game player. He's a Super Bowl MVP. Um,

he's had some decent years. I think he I think he's a guy I would try to bring back at me at least for numbers, but more than anything special teams. I is he a guy that can play special teams If that's what John Fossil's looking for, then yes, because that your backup linebacker's got to have the experience to do that. Yeah, everything he just said, I mean, I would like to think you could sign him for a

very very low price. And if that's the case, then hell yeah, I'd love to have him as my fifth or sixth linebacker for me, any of those guys um in the linebacker positions, I would like to see what else is available during free agency, Like that would be a position where I would be I would like the Cowboys to get somebody else in free agency rather than just signing your own if obviously that person is better than what you've got currently. That's a good point. Yeah,

actually I agree with that. I'd rather Fossil get get a guy in here. If that's his guy, fine, I doubt it, though. I'd rather Fossil get his linebacker that he's played against for special teams for my backup linebacker, kind of like Besotia did with those guys. Oh yeah, and that's I mean, yeah, I guess i'd probably bet against it. But I mean, but again, like what level of free agent are you talking about here, Like you're gonna go after Danny Trevathan, Corey Littleton or Van Noy. No,

you're not going to spend that kind of names. Yeah, exactly, and so like you're getting I mean, you're going down the line. But The thing you consider here is you got four guys of your eight linebackers that want the roster. For those guys are free agents this year, unrestricted free agents. The only guys you got left or Christian Covington, Luke Gifford,

Jalen Smith, and Layton vander Esher exactly. And that's my point, like, do you do you feel like you need to have some of these, like at least one or two of these guys needs to be a priority, just for the sake of some consistency. Yeah, and just for the solid guy that's true consistency with what like the scheme's changing, that's McCarthy say. He's like defense is going to be a departure. So is there consistency in the sense that like we know their names and know what they can

and can't do? I guess, But does that matter to them? Yeah? Maybe not? I doubt it. Yeah, I think that it might be a sneaky need of some for some depth of those guys that can play as starters, because you don't know what's gonna happen with Sean. How concernn are you with Layton Ender? I mean they keep saying and he it's expected to have a full recovery and it's going to be fine and ready to go for the offseason. But are you guys feeling my concern level as a seven?

If ten is like oh my god, you know, yeah, this is the worst thing ever, and one being like, no problem, I'm a seven. I think I put myself closer to like a five, Like I don't. I'm just being never never take them at face value that everything is perfect. But also I'm not just convinced that he's

not gonna be able to like player. Let me let me, let me preface that my my comfort level with the position, or my level of concern for the position is a seven because there's nothing really behind there because he you're asking him to do so many things and then he's got a neck injury and Dayalen Smith, yes, he made the Pro Bowl. I think there's some there's definitely some issues in his game when it comes to pass coverage. That's what they that's the number one thing they have

to figure out. Linebackers and my need to figure out what can we do with Jalen Smith to make him like a dynamic player because I think he's a good player. He gets a bad rap if he was off of social media, we would have a different opinion. We have a different opinion. I agree with he's he's not a bad player at all. I agree with that. It's just I still think he's a liability and coverage though, Like if without any of that, I still think people would

have said he had a disappointing season. But I think you could be a really great linebacker in this league. Yeah, even if you're not great in coma. I've seen really good linebackers and leagues aren't great in coverage. You just committed. You just well, basically what you have to do is

you just have to change what their role is. Like what we do know of him, he's a really good pass rusher, so maybe you find ways to have him pass, you know, rushing in those kinds of situations more frequently than you have him backing out and in I feel like I was more upset than excited this year when I saw him playing as far as the things that he was doing on the field, Like from what I remember, just in general, I feel like he would do things that would upset me more than get me on my feet,

like oh yes, let me tweet out Jal in between the whistles or after the whistles, Well that kind of kind of both, kind of both. I'm trying to keep that whole other thing separate from the actual plane. I mean, there were times that I guess it's it just ties together because he carries himself as, oh, I'm so good and this and that, and then when you see him making even little mistakes, it's like, Okay, you should be

playing better. So I guess it just it kind of goes hand in hand when it comes to that, because if he wasn't like that, I think I would be like, Okay, it's not that bad. But because we have a certain perception of him, it makes you feel or think that he should be playing at this other level. So we're not seeing Christian Covington, Luke Gifford, Jalen Smith, and Layton vander Esher under conto before. Yeah, I really hope Sean Lee decides to come back for another season. That would

be awesome. Let John Fossil and Mike Nolan and decide on a journeyman type of guy to sign, and if they want to draft a guy with a not crazy high pick that sounds great to me. Let's roll. Yeah, I will say this I kind of fall in between the two of you guys on Layton. And it's not so much that I don't believe he will be able to come back and resume his career, no problem. What I am concerned about is this is a neck injury that started back in college that now was a problem. Again,

I don't trust the future. That's by issue is it's not so much him coming back and he may come back and have a great next year and a great even year after that. My question is is this going to be something that is going to crop up two or three years from now. I don't know that. And again I've never heard anything like that. But next and backs aren't like those are the kinds of things that

I've had. Next surgery, it doesn't. You don't always feel better even after the surgery, and you never you I know, for me, I'm not back to normal. So it's that's where I'm like, I just wonder in the future, what is this? What is he? And how to that? Nick Field, You're right, and I'm I love to say hope is not a strategy, but like it's I mean, what you're gonna do, It's not. Are you at a point where you need to do something drastic. I don't think so.

I mean, might be the difference of the linebacker that you sign, the journeyman or the guy, the Danny Trevathian guy, something like that. That's been a starter and could could be. That's why I want Sean leeback. Yeah, because that I can do that on a discount, which at like, I'm not ready to spend major resources ie first, second or third round pick or pay a guy starter money, because that's expensive. It's really I mean, it could be really expensive. What did job rolls go up when he said you

can do it on discount? Were you worried about whether you can do that on discount? Well, the discount wouldn't. Then he cut his salary down to three million. It was a discount from seven million. Yeah, but are you going to get it again? How much money is Sean Lee going to command? With his injury history and his age. He's says, let's run it back three million again. That's not that's three millions not cheap you and Pam three

I don't know, I mean, are you kidding me? Top of the top of the million, we've been around top of the line linebacker? The play is costing you sixteen million a year in this day and age. So if you tell me I can get Sean Lee for less than less than one quarter of that salary, maybe you can't. Though I'd pay him up to like five or six if you one year deal. Yeah, I do that. He's the one guy that I would see him being like, yes, okay,

I'm down. If we're being real, it would probably be like three with incentives to hit up to a certain number if you hit snap counts and all that type of stuff, which again I'm okay with. For sure, I'm certainly okay with I just I'm not so if Layton. Sorry, if Layton has another issue like this next year, then it's time to really think about what you're gonna do

for the future. But right now, it's like when you see a crack in the foundation of your house, like you're gonna level the thing, or you're gonna try to fix it first before you sell the house, or bulldoze

it and build it over again. I think I think the whole part about this three four and four to three, and you know, they're just trying to figure out the scheme that fits with the players, and I think it all revolves around Jalen Smith because I think he is a unique player that there's a good role for him. They have to figure that out, and I think that's a domino effect that will affect other things. I mean, to me, Jalen Smith should be playing in a traditional

three four. I could see him being right in the middle of the defense where you don't have to cover as much and you're taking on blocks and he's big and he can handle that. Or he's a three four rusher that can rush from the outside. I think he's a better fit in a three four scheme, And maybe they're going to do some different maneuvering around to fit

some things. And you've seen him have success when rushing, you know and creating some pressure, so he's shown you that he can do that and be good at it. I mean, I think I think he goes back to what he does well he is. I think he is a good straight line runner. If he has point A to point B and he has to get there, I think he can do that well. I think change of direction is tough for him. I think lateral movement can be tough for him, at least in what we've seen

so far. So figure out ways to more often than not, have him running straight line, running from this point to that point. And I think he'll be fine. I think he'll be a really good player. But the more you got him out in coverage, the more he's having to do a lot of you know, kind of change the direct. Like, I don't think that's what he's best suited for. I just don't. He's become kind of a punchline a little bit.

And you know that happens to players the law all the time, and it first, it happens after you get a contract. I mean, Brandon Carr was that way. I mean Terrence Knewhan became that way. Yeah, it happens, and you kind of forget the fact that you know, you got paid because you're really a good football player. They just got to figure out ways to make him a good player. And you know, if he's making a lot of good plays, people will be they'll be swiping in

their living rooms, you know, cheering him on. Yeah I do. That's a that's got to be like a top three priority for this coaching staff for sure, making sure he's used the best way possible before we go to our final break. Let's real quick Joe Thomas. What are your thoughts on Joe Thomas? If he I mean, I'd be happy to sign him back. I think that's he did. He did more for this team than Malcolm Smith. But I think it's similar to that, is like, how do

the coaches feel about him? Is there a guy available that they like more because they're more familiar with him? I didn't have to stay healthy enough for a guy they didn't play enough. It didn't seem like he was always kind of hurt, but not every ads ad inural problems and he's got the always got the four to six week injuries seem like. But but man, he's a hitter though, I mean, he's a he's a good guy to have on on special teams if if if the roles.

At this point, we just need healthy guys in that position. You don't need to add somebody else that's dealing with What's a great point actually because of all of because like you said, their question walks with all those guys, I would I would opt for the guy that is so steady and healthy, and yeah, that's why I won. Is my fifth linebacker round, so I want is my sixth line But I want these guys to be just just guys. I know we're going to be healthy and available.

It would probably it would probably make people mad because Layton's here, Jalen's here, Shaun Lee might be back. But like Draft one, in the fourth round, that's where they got Hitchens, That's where they got Wilson. Can contribute right away. You can play special teams. You could go there playing on the last I checked, which and I'm like, Hitchens is playing pretty well. They drafted Hitchens to be that guy and he had to step in and start right away.

So like you can get that kind of upside. That's like the sweet spot for where I would love to drive and just you guess you gotta churn that production. It's like running back. Like linebackers, you can't expect them to be at the top of their game. I mean, Luke Keikley just retired at twenty eight. Just keep churning the talent at that position. You know, there's seven former Cowboys going to be playing in the Super Bowl, so

disciplined six she's great for them, for them. I didn't realize this till the other day that Mike Webber the draft picked from Ohio State running back very much under. He's on the Chiefs practice squad. We'll get a ring if they went they picked him, they picked him up and you can do after the season ended or two put on their practice squad. So he's yeah, good friend, you want to dive into the players. They're one of their starting cornerbacks. Is a guy that Cowboys traded for

a ham sandwich? Do we want to do that various? Well, to have that conversation we don't have. He's this daughter, he's a starter and is playing well. How much better would you feel about this team's cornerback situation if Charvarius here, We're gonna get into that problem right now. They literally traded him for a guy that never played a regular

season snap here, Okay, let's take our final break. We're gonna come back and we're gonna talk about this secondary because that is an area where the Cowboys have a lot of change is coming. We'll talk about this. We'll right back. This is Dallas cow Was that come radio? I want to use what the pros use? How about the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites for just ten

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that's okay, just okay. What's not right about the subway? Well, I bet you don't even notice it after that's my neighbor. Ain't it a deal? That's just okay? It's not okay. Get a great deal with America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down. Based on GWS one s cour September twenty nineteen, Back to the Break Come from Back is the final segment of The Break Life ins WBC Mortgage Studios. At the start,

we're talking free agency here. Later in the show, before we end, I'm gonna nail these guys down on their predictions for the Super Bowl as well. So it makes you get those ready, makes sure you stay tuned to hear what Amber and Dave and Nick have to say about what they think is gonna happen this Sunday. All right, so let's get back into this. We got a lot of guys in the secondary who are unrestricted free agents

this year. Let me read off the list, and I think, what we'll do, since we only have one segment, only fifteen minutes, think what we'll do is we'll kind of take this as a group and you guys can kind of pick and choose the guys you think and the guys you think you kind of let go. You can put them kind of in groups. All right, So you've got Anthony Brown who was an unrestricted free agent. You've got Cavon Frasier, CJ. Goodwin, Jeff Heath, Byron Jones, Darien Thompson,

all unrestricted free agents this year. You have an exclusive rights free agent in Jamill Showers and a restrictive free agent that's Meal Showers. Is your list wrong, Dave, that's not my That came straight from Cowboys PR says that Deonte Burton is also a restricted free agent. I guess with the guys, maybe they might they might have Jamil's rights because he because he retired, he's not he hasn't

played all year. He's not coming back, all right, So that all being said, giants talk to me about those safeties and cornerbacks. I guess let's start first with the cornerbacks. You got Byron Jones and you've got Anthony Brown. Um, what do you think the Cowboys should do with their with their cornerback position? With these unrestricted free agents? It was hard not to read into Will mcclay's comments about Byron at the Senior Bowl, which, like I mean, to

some degree, there's only so much he can say. He's not the owner or technically the general manager. But we asked him about Byron and he was like, he's a starting caliber corner and we like him a lot. We'll see if he fits in our plans. And I'm just like, that is hardly a glowing endorsement of an All Pro. How about Mike Nolan? That was what I was gonna say.

Those are interesting. He said that he wasn't talking about Byron Jones, not really, but he talked about Troy Aikman used to say, I'm not worried about throwing at cornerbacks that aren't going to catch the ball. If you're gonna knock it down, I'll fine. I'll throw him complete passes all the time. I'm worried about Dion and those guys catching and taking it back. So if you're just gonna knock the ball down. I ain't worried about you. I looked over and I was like, Byron Jones, that's not good.

So he's not worried about guys that knocked the ball down. And it's been two years. Is that? I think he had one last year one and it was like on a hail mary because the problem last year and then we were talking about he didn't then enterteen nineteen and he's got like two for his whole career. I know that one of him was to deflect against the Redskins for a touchdown and another one was like on a hail mary at the end of the first half. That it really you know, it would have been a turnover

on downs anyway, he doesn't. But if that's the priority, then he hasn't had one since twenty seventeen. Is that the right way to look at it. I don't know. I mean, he covers, he covers really well. He covers well. He he stays relatively healthy. I mean, I know he got banged up a little bit, he stays healthy, and um, he's a good, good guy to have miss the game. Did he maybe at the end of the year, maybe, Yeah, DATILASKI did. I don't remember red skinning game, but I

he checks the boxes in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's just not the turnover he covers. Well, he's got really good size, good speed, good attitude, I mean good. I think he's a leader. I think he's he does everything the right way. Um, he just doesn't get turnovers. But I could live with that. But it's like, are you realistically are you gonna have two corners that are that talented to the point where they are playmakers and getting turnovers and all that, Like if you have one,

you're gonna have like one of those. You know you're not gonna have two players like that in your second day. Yeah, but they don't have any, but bring somebody else. I'm looking at the rest of the cornerback and I'm like, well, they don't even knocked the ball down, So what are you gonna do. You're saying, I don't value the guy that at least knocked the ball down and created incompletion. So are you didn't gonna replace him with a guy

that doesn't even knock the ball down? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I'd rather kick that guy, and like Yeamber says, go and draft at the seventeen spot, go out and draft a really good cornerback that you think is a ball hawk. And now you put those two guys opposite to each other. Now you got something. You're working with something at that point. That's what people said about Brandon Carr and Mo claiborne. It is true saying that, but

it was like that. But what it turned out to be was a bad draft pick because I think Brandon Carr, the fact that he's still playing the league get the level that he is, says that he is good in that kind of role. Give me the other guy, which different players though I mean forth of those guys, I don't I don't know that Byron has the ball skills

to magically be like a seven pick cornerback. But I think at this point I have to believe it's something about the scheme and the way the Cowboys wanted their dbs playing the ball that just nobody over the course of seven years could do it on a consistent basis because I think they just harped so much on don't give up the big play, like I mean, and and it's hard to say which side of this you really fall on because Marcus Peters will get you five interceptions

and return too for a touchdown, but he's gonna give up big plays too. Those things go hand in hand, and I don't think the Cowboys were willing to risk that. Yeah, maybe this coaching staff will be. I don't know. The thing with Byron for me is sorry, you know there's another point to that too. Another reason they didn't want to risk that is because they never put a high priority at safety. I never really had a safety back there to clean up that mess. So maybe you should

focus on that. Maybe they should focus on a safety that's a ball hawking safety that you you know, that can cover a lot of ground, and then that can make your cornerbacks a little bit more aggressive. As what's a great point. Yeah, they don't. Since they don't value safety that way, then they have to value cornerbacks in a different level. I think the world of Byron, and I think his coverage skills are good enough that he's

worth paying. But that's easy for me to say, and I think this is the riddle of the entire offseason for me, because let's be realistic, They're probably not going to come to terms with dak Ramari before the deadline to tag people think. No, I don't tag people. I mean, they're not gonna make the decision for by. I get that.

I guess I did for a little bit. I kind of have a feeling, my personal feeling has kind of a feeling that they're going to get the quarterback done before that, and that's going to give them franchise and a transition tax to be I hope, I hope you're right, because that would make New Orleans while we're all in New Orleans. Yeah, that's how it works. Yeah, that's how I mean, as much of a pain in the ass as that would be. I hope you're right because it

would make life easier on them. I don't think I believe it because there's so much money to be lost or gained. I mean, you know, Dak's smart enough to know what would happen if he hit free agency, but he never hit free agency exactly, but he knows. But why would he just if they're not willing to pay him what he thinks he's worth, why would he just agree to it sometime over the next month. And I don't I don't think this is gonna be just him

giving in. I think they're gonna negotiate and they're gonna to a conclusion. Everybody feels good. Okay, I hope you're right, But I am expecting Dak and Amari to be on tags on March fifteenth, and therefore the Cowboys won't have a choice but to let buyer and hit free agency and somebody with money not coming back Vias who needs a corner I mean, I can just what does Philadelphia needs? They They're just like, we don't care if he gets picks.

We just already that can cover around Philadelphia's like that's their number. One time. They liked him in the draft process, I remember, I vividly remember nervously watching the picks countdown until the Eagles picked, thinking like, okay, if if Jones clears, Philly will get him, and if not, who knows what we'll do. Which that's you know, obviously it worked out the right way. But Philly likes him. They need a cornerback, like he's gonna get so much freaking money in free agency.

Interceptions are no interceptions, And that's just what I think is going to happen, because they are because I don't think they will have a tag to use on him. I hope I'm wrong. And by the way, they are the team that we were just talking about that has those guys that they don't even knock the ball down like they've been without cornerbacks. That cornerbacks have been really bad. So they're like, give me a quarnerback that's gonna at

least create incompletion. Stop good. They're like, you mean to tell me he can keep up with receivers. That's all we need, and you just need him to not be four yards behind the receiver. It was his first position coach. Oh, geez, Byron, wasn't it. Jerome Henderson and Joe Baker, Yeah, where's giants? Giants? I don't know the giants Enjoran Generis Jenkins experiment didn't go so well. They're with the Giants? Who Joe Baker and Joe Baker Jerome Henderson is Yeah, they put the

whole crew back together and Garretts getting the band back together. Wow. Um. But that's it creates an interesting riddle to solve because if Byron leaves in free agency, you have to sign somebody, Yeah, and you have the draft and you got to draft somebody. Yeah. If you don't sign somebody who's capable of starting. Then you're doing exactly what they always say you can't do, which is pigeonholing yourself into a position where pick seventeen or pick fifty one or maybe both. Everyone need to

be cornerbacks. Everybody knows it. You're like, Okay, these are the three guys they might be able to get, and that's just not a way to win a draft. That's how people jumped you in getting sure pay. And I mean, I hate to bring up Nolan Carroll because that failed spectacularly. But if you can't keep Byron, then you will need to sign a guy like that who you can at least trot out there a week one if you don't draft somebody better. All right, real quick, let's hit these safeties.

You got Cavon Phrase, you got Jeff Heath, You've got Darien Thompson. Darren Thompson was an interesting guy, played some quite a bit for the Cowboys this year, and I thought he was Okay, he was solid, But I think at the safety position, that's basically what you've had the last years, or guys you can say at the best are solid players. Not signing any of those guys, not

one of them. So we've just in this, in this, in this conversation, we've decided you got a draft linebacker, you decided you got a draft cornerback, you decide you got a draft safety. Are you signing? Seriously, I'm absolutely bringing back thirty eight the goat Heath. All y'all, kay, no, seriously, think about this before you get mad again. If you don't do anything, what I get it? How you have to address these problems before the draft you have? Okay,

you know what I wonder? I wonder how. I wonder how the rest of the league, in particular these new coaches see him, because I think a lot of what he was here for all these years and why he got opportunities is because Garrett loved him and that coaching staff loved him. I don't know if another coaching staff that comes in and watches film on him is gonna be like, man, we look because part of what they

love are the intangibles of who he is. Okay, I don't know if they love or get the name Jeff Heath. All I know is they need to sign a guy who can start, but they would prefer to not start. That's what the special teams. Jeff Heath is a special team's demon. Yeah, and in a in a perfect world, he would be on a small salary as my ace special teamer who can start in a pinch. But you need him here so that we're not sitting there at picks seventeen saying well it's gotta be Grant Delpit or

else we're gonna suck. Yeah, because that would be what you don't want to be there. No, he wouldn't be expensive. Would he just had a kid? Like he's he's not moving back to uh Lake Orion, Michigan or wherever he's from, Like it's not as cool as Dallas, Texas. Like there's a reason all these guys stay. There's a reason all these dudes stay. First, taxes, climate, there's a million reasons why. Um, but he's gonna be here anyway. I'm not signing him

like right away. He's going to test the market. Now, if he's a guy that can come back in the you know, one two year deal, I'm all for that. If that's the role. That still kills Day's point that you want him by draft because you want to be able to draft. I'm talking about the second wave of free agency, which is like nine hours later after all the craziness happens in the first wave, and then I'm gonna be right here to laugh at y'all on March fifteenth.

I'm not saying he won't be. Remember you remember who their first you remember who their first signing was? Last year everything was last year is totally different. I'm just Darian Thoms. No, it was Jamazol Wally, and and years before that it was James Hannah and everybody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna get the big money. Earl Thomas is coming and it's Jamaezela Wally, and this year it's gonna be

Jeff Heath. Everybody's gonna freak the hell out. The one thing I know about smile, the one thing I know about new coaches is they like to surround themselves with guys if they're comfortable with. And so it's people like Jeff Heath that I could see ended up in in New York because the coaching staff buy in large, picked

up and moved there. Fantastic point, right, And so I see a situation where these coaches will say, Hey, if we're gonna just have a solid safety, let's go get a solid safety that we know and trust and whoever that might be. I don't know who the name is. That's the guy that they go get Chris Banjoe seriously, like he's the same, it'll be the same guy, Like it won't be right. And again, all that does is just secure you that you don't have to rush into

a bad decision in the draft. You got a guy that in a pinch, you can play at safety and he's gonna be a solid guy for you. He's gonna a special team or that kind of thing. Is Chris Banjo under contract? Like he was with McCarthy Bay that name, he's freaking He's Jeff. He's Jeff Heath. Actually he's from Sugarland, Texas. He went to as MU. He was he was like the fifth safety on the Packers with McCarthy. He spent time with Nolan in New Orleans. Yeah. See, that's the

kind of guy. I don't know if he goes there and he's available, Yeah, I don't as available he's available. I can't believe y'all never heard of him. No, I'm sorry, Chris. Yeah, I mean all right, we only have a few more minutes here, so I want to lock you guys down on Super Bowl picks. Who do you think is gonna win this weekend. Let's start with you, Nick, forty nine Ers by seventeen. I'd like I'd like for to be

a close game. Chris Banjoe is a free agent. By the way, I'm just saying he remember Kyle cuts us out Banjoe. Okay, sorry, I just I don't know. I don't think anybody can really stop the forty nine ers. That their defensive line is so good. They'll have that they'll have him running all over the place and he'll he'll be good doing it. But I think the way they run the ball and they just dominate the line, and I just see them winning the game, pulling it away.

I hope the Chiefs win. Um. I love watching Patrick Mahomes played, but I just think the forty nine Ers are so strong on the both lines. Yeah, that's I mean. I've thought a sneaking suspicion all week that the forty nine ers are gonna win because they're they're the more complete team. And I agree with everything Nick just said. Having said that they buckled down on Derrick Henry and

made Tannehill beat him and he couldn't do it. And I mean, Jimmy Garoppolo is better than Tannehill, but is he capable of lifting them if the running game's not there? Because the Chiefs proved if they commit to it, they can stop it. That's it's really I mean, I hope. I think it'll be a fantastic game because the forty nine Ers are a better team, but the Chiefs have the best player in the game. And I've been saying

all this player in the game too. I've been saying all week that I think the night but I can't. I can't go against Mahomes. I can't. Like I've you know, I love Aaron Rodgers, Like a quarterback of that caliber just means so much. I think the Niners are the better team, but I think the Chiefs will find a way to win, all right, Amber, I think it's gonna

be a closed game. But the forty nine Ers, the way they've been playing, at least on the defensive side of the ball, just the aggressiveness and the energy that as soon as the game starts, even the last game they played, it's like so much energy there. And if they can keep that up for this week, which I think they definitely can. Defense a defense like that with so much aggression and energy can definitely win you that Super Bowl. There's so much like the Panthers to me

a few years ago. I mean, they just sucked for so long that you're just gonna get good defensive players. You just keep stacking these defensive players together. A sudden they hit, you know, you get a real like Giants Patriots vibe like Buckner and Bosa are just terrifying Mahomes all day. But that's the thing is, Mahomes is not Tom Brady like. Mahomes can do crazy stuff like the run he had against the Titans, where you can do everything right and rush the hell out of collapse the pocket,

and he still does something insane. And I know Cowboy fans want the forty nine ers to lose because they think that matters with the six and all that. I mean, they've already been passed right two teams twice, so you know, I think there's more to it than that, though. I think Cowboy fans just don't like the forty nine ers. I mean, they've been an NFC rival for years chief decades, and that was the arrival back in the day Dallas Texans that it's a different way before any of us yeah,

you know. I'll put it like this. I've seen some really great defenses throughout the history of the NFL. I've been able to witness. It's rare that a great defense, particularly a great defensive front, gets to Super Bowl and loses. I don't care what kind of offense are going against. And we saw the greatest, in my opinion, the greatest offense in the history of the game at Patriots offense get beat in the Super Bowl because that defensive front was really, really good, and I just I believe that

because of that, San Francisco has the edge in this game. Now. I'm rooting for Kansas City because i love watching Patrick Mahomes play. I'm a Patrick Mahomes fan, so I'm rooting for him to win this game. But when you look at it, I just I just think history says when you match up a really great I'm talking about a really great defensive front against whatever kind of offense, it typically ends up that defferensive defensive front wins this game. And so I'm gonna I'm gonna say San Francisco wins.

I'm glad I picked the Chiefs then, because it would be silly if we had a clean sweep on the show. So yeah, but I'll be rooting for the Chiefs, no doubt about our rooting for the chi I have not come across a Cowboys fan who's this rooting for the forty nine? Are you all right? We appreciate you, guys. You want us for back next Wednesday, more talk on the Cowboys till then for Nick even, Dave Hellman and Amber Garcia. I'm Derek Eelts and this has been The

Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.