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It's time for The Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com with Ambar Garcia, Brian brought Us, Patrick Walker, and Derek Eagleton.
It is Wednesday, April seventeenth, twenty twenty two, Season twenty, episode number three. Welcome to the latest edition of The Break, Live from that s WBC Mortgage Studios at the star of this show is presented by LG and today we're talking draft. We're going to talk about We're going to continue our position draft series. Last week we managed to get to one position and we hit quarterback and we talked about it, and I think we've got some clarity
on the quarterback position. Today, hopefully we'll move a little faster and maybe get two or three positions in here. We only have two more shows before the draft, so we got to fit it in all right. Before we get to that, though, we got to catch up on some news that happened yesterday. Cowboys signed running back Royce Freeman. Listen to this. In twenty twenty three with the Rams, he had seventy seven rushes for three hundred nineteen yards,
a four point one average. Interestingly, he hadn't really caught many passes since twenty nineteen. That was when he was with Denver, and he had forty three receptions that year, average about six yards perception. Last year only had one reception for thirteen yards, So not really using that way in Los Angeles, Brian, give me a scouting report on him.
I haven't looked at him at all. I'm so focused on what we're doing.
With the draft and stuff like that, and I don't think I don't think it's going to keep you from drafting running back.
That's what.
Yeah, you know, you look at you look at depth pieces and things like that. I'm just being real honest with you about the player. So yeah, that that to me, this is more about uh, you know, Will and those guys like to try and add players. Maybe they got a player on some value, Maybe there's some things that they liked when they when you know, Henry Schrok of those guys in the pro department, you know, looked at him and they thought, well, these kind of traits fit
into maybe with Mike Stewing and stuff like that. I just if unless it's a running back in this draft, I am not looking at anybody else after. I understand signing guys and stuff like that, but to me, the best value that they're going to get, the player that's going to help them the most, is going to probably be picked next next Friday for them.
Yeah, this isn't going to change what they do in the draft at all.
This is for all intents and purposes, this is another a repeat of Ronald Jones. They're hoping that this pands out a little bit better as far as maybe him being able to show something in camp, because obviously Ronald Jones couldn't with the groin injury and then the suspension and things like that. But it's basically just it's camp insurance type of situation.
This is a very professional take.
But whatever highlights the highlights firing professional take.
But and I'm totally judging a book by its cover, and that's absolutely wrong to do. But if I was to judge a book by its cover, and if you guys go on Cowboys Social and you see the picture of him signing, he's a big guy, he's very bulky, and he made me wondering, really, am I, Okay, how
how fast can you be when you're that bulky? So it just led me to think, like, Okay, it didn't really necessarily bring any excitement because of that, because I'm thinking, Okay, maybe he lacks that kind of speed that you're hoping to get from a running back here, from a starting running back, but he does have the most experience out of all the running backs in the room right now, so that can be very helpful. But at the same time, it was just like, you know, between.
The tackles, like your power guy, Like you said, Derek, there's a reason for you know, for the most part that he only had one reception last year. I mean, that's just that's not as bad, right, so you bringing them in for power?
You know.
The thing that jumped out to me. Nick and I were having this conversation this morning, and I thought it was an interesting point when you look at that body type. One thing that we that we're going to keep an eye on throughout this entire preseason is how much does the new rules around kickoffs affect the types of players
that you use on special teams? And I made the argument, do you go bigger Let's say, for example, on kick return, can you go with bigger guys that maybe are a little bit athletic than you would normally do, just because there's shortest distance between them and defenders and you want them.
You think of it now, like if I've got a guard who can pull and can block in space, that may be the kind of guy I want on a kick return because he locks on a guy, the guy he may have size advantage over the guy, and that creates some opportunity for my return to be able to crack through. So this guy when you look at when you look at a guy like Royce Freeman, I wonder if maybe what they were looking at is can he
add something to a special teams type package? Sure with those new rules, And I think that's something we'll look at again throughout training camp, throughout the preseason. We'll be looking at how they this changes the kind of player you would have on special teams.
Yeah, that's you know, when you look at guys too, and you're thinking about to your point is about space players, when you're thinking about offensive linemen, and we've seen you know, if you watch the XFL and others that have used this rule, this kickoff return rule. You've seen that they've been able to get returns if you have a guy that's very shifty and very quick, so because if you could get that initial block, then you've got a guy that can maybe hit it. But to your point, though
you're looking at guy, it's potentially a blocker. And it used to be where you can't have every linebacker out there. Used to be teams are playing with defensive backs too on special teams as blockers and stuff like that.
Tight ends.
Maybe if you do have guys that are a little bit bigger but play better in space, right, then you get that opportunity to maybe bust one of these runs.
Well, not to get into Ruster cuts, yeah, because we have a little well for that. Well, but how many, I mean, how many running backs are you keeping on the team.
I always think that's gonna I think Hunter Lipkey's got a role on this team, so always going to start with him, and then I think they're going to draft one, whether they draft that in the second round or the third round, or if they use a pick to if they trade back situation, maybe grab one in the fourth. This draft has depth at running back and it has it from the second round all the way through the fifth round, and you could get guys that fit different roles.
Some of them are shorter, some of them are wider, some of them are quicker, some of them catch the ball better. But that's the beauty of this draft right now. With the running back spot, to me, Hunter Lipkey's on this team because I feel like he does the things that Derek was just talking about. You know, unfortunately had the fumble, but he can short yardage, He could play special teams. You can move him as a you can use him as a wing, you could use him as an h you can use them as a full back.
There's a lot of different things now, which one between Davis Daddle and who the rookie guy is. But I think that you're probably going to see three on this team if I had.
To guess, and dovetailing off of what he's saying, and I one hundred percent agree. I think hundred Lukey has a role on this team solidified. And I believe the same for ric o'daudle as well. The question to answer, the question that leads to your answer is what's the role for duce Von If they figure out a role for duce Vaughan, then who does duces pon push out?
But as it stands, because duce Von although talented and he has some potential for what Mike McCarthy can use him for, we didn't see any of that as a rookie. So he's kind of behind the eight ball because they're likely going to add a draft pick and it's going to be a guy who's expected to come in an impact. Right, So even you know you add that, you at Rico Das too, Hunter that's three, right, So now you have Maliite Davis fighting against duce Von and maybe Roy Streeman
or whoever elder veteran they add. So I think duce Von is the X factor when it comes to how many running backs you're going to carry, because I'm sure they're going to try to find a reason to keep Deuce around. But you got to find that reason to summer and came.
You can to see ducevonn play a ton of special teams this year and and I mean in the preseason. They're gonna have to determine because if you're third back, that guy always has to play special teams. General manager will tell you that every time he talks about running backs. He says third back has to be able to play special teams. Duce Vaughan's height limits his ability to play special teams. You know, that's again, that's he was a
tremendous college player. He was a featured back at Kansas State. They handed him the ball, he did his job. He played no special teams. So in the league he's in a different category. So he has to find his niche, or they have to find a niche for him, or you know, he will be a guy that probably will keep on the practice squad or something like that.
And Cavante Turpin has both hands firmly on the wheel as a returner.
Well, let me ask this question because I think I think we all assume that when we saw these new rules, it was like Turpin's your guy. But when you think about what he was able to duce Vaughan was able to do in college. He was able to do some turns, he had a nice return game. He's the kind of guy that in this kind of new format, could present some interesting challenges for teams because again, his short stature makes it hard sometimes to locate him. And it's gonna
be on you pretty quick. Right, and you got guys blocking. Does he then create Is this a situation where maybe he ends up being just as good, if not better, an option at kick returns and keeping Turpin maybe at punt returns. And by the way, there is still an opportunity for you to get a third receiver. Maybe you use Turpin Moore as a third receiver combined with punt returns and you use Vaughn in that other way. Do you see a scenario like that for Van?
How many plays do you see Vaughn at playing a game? What's your envision for Vaughn for games play, honor is for a number of plays.
It depends on whether they could find a role for him as a running back. If they can find a role for him as a running back that can be that can catch the ball out of the backfield, maybe give me, i don't know, ten reps there a game and then give me some kick returns. That may give him enough of a role to make the team.
That's why Turpin is your guy, because he plays more offensive snap. He's going to be your punt returner and he's going to be your kick returner. So to me, it's if if if the thing with Vaughn. Can he get enough snaps to take.
To justify say it's not worth doing that when you got a Turpin.
Yeah, that's the thing about it is he has got to be better than Turpin on offense. And I think that there they found ways to use Turpin on offense that other than the jet sweeps and things like that, they were they were finding ways him actually running routes him down believe it or not, in the red zone making plays down there. So yeah, it's goat. The competition is going to be how many plays can they find
for Deuce Vaughn. And you know, you can't just say, okay, he's dressed in every week because he's a kick returner.
You know.
The great what they'll neutralize you on that one is they'll just say, okay, if you're Dinny good at this, they'll just kick the ball at the end zone and they won't let you return anything. You know, That's that's how they'll neutralize you there.
If that's the case, real quick, Brian, before we go to break, give me a couple of names, and if you guys have some names as well, give me some names. I want to know some aimes of some guys that you would think about for the Cowboys if they were going to draft in the first round, if they were going to draft in the second round, and if they were going to draft later than that at the running back position, that might be of interest to the Cowboys.
I think you'd have to start with Brooks from Texas, you know, with the knee injury and all the first round pick, no, the second round pick.
I don't have a first round rounding back right now.
So I think you look at Brooks from Texas, you look at Benson, I think from Florida State make a lot of sense for you if you're looking down now into the third round right from Tennessee, Allen from Wisconsin, Irvin from Oregon make a lot of sense of the third round type of thing. If you're going a little bit later, I think fourth round guys. I would look at Ray Davis as a possibility there. He's played a lot, He's been in three different places as Kentucky has been
his final stop here. Estimate from Notre Dame is another guy. If you want to go all the way down into the fifth round. Tracy from Purdue makes a lot of sense. He was a converted wide receiver from Iowa. He's a guy that kind of reminds me a little bit of Tony Pollard, wide receiver that's playing running back kind of a guy. So keep an eye on Tracy from Purdue would be another guy that I would look at. Those are kind of rounds two, three, four, and five right there.
Well, there are so many running backs with different abilities and strengths. So looking at the group that they currently have and everybody that we've talked right now, I mean, what kind of running back type of guy or style are you guys looking for right now?
Personally me nice?
Well, yeah, good, impactful, dynamic in whatever they're being asked to do. When you look at the issue between Dowdle and the redundancy between dowdle skill set and Tony Pollar's last year, right, what were you missing? You were missing that sledge hammer and the sword, which is the Skip
Pete reference, right, Zeke Pollard, you were missing that. So Pollard walks, you retain Dowdle, you still need that compliment, right, So for me, I'm looking for a complimentary piece which will be that power back, the one who can do the heavy lifting, the dirty work, a lot of that pick up most of those, whatever the case may be, your A gaps, your B gaps, and hopefully every once in a while he'll leak out of the backfield and
give you and a random option as a receiver. But that wouldn't necessarily be his bag as much as it would be Rico's back.
So you see Dowel, Morris Appaller, I see.
Dow They've been missing Zeke, they missed the last year, and they don't have a Z on the team right now, which is why not even remotely similar. But we talked about Royce Freeman's build, right, He's kind of that girthier built.
They are looking.
For that power, right, So when you talk about someone like Estimate, for example, that's a guy, big guy powerful, he can make guys pay for trying to tackle him. That's what you need, in my opinion, to compliment.
But can I take a step back, Is there a single running back currently on this roster that you think of as starter caliber in the NFL?
No?
Okay, So if no, that's not that's what I'm looking I might Hunter, but he's not there yet.
He's not.
That's why I look at Brooks and Benson, right, I'm looking for a featured guy I'm looking for because the problem that I have is though that I need. I need an explosive player. I know that Tony Powler got healthy halfway through the season. They didn't block well enough for anybody to run the football at all, so we didn't see that with Tony. But to me, I need a guy that's gonna make people miss I'm gonna make. I need a guy that's gonna be able to make to catch the ball when thrown to Now.
This team does not throw the ball to the backs. You know you have to be able to blitz pick up to play here.
But to me, give me the guy that can make the first guy miss, maybe make the second guy miss, and then turn maybe a negative play or a zero yard play into a four or five yard play. That's what I need right now. I think Hunter Lipkey could be the power guy myself.
I do. I think Rico Dabele.
If you hand the ball to Rico Dabdle, he could he could do some power things for you.
I need an elusive guy. I need somebody now.
The thing with to me, Brooks, Benson, both those guys, Lloyd from USC, I would take all those guys because I know they can make people miss in the hole, and I know they can make five six yards on their own.
Yeah, you know, Yeah.
I guess the point I was making is that I think they got a lot of guys who will complimentary parts that would be nice with a feature back. I think when you ask what are they missing, I'm like, they need a feature That's why I say good, I need a feature back that I can then use these other guys in spurts to be able to compliment what that person is.
They're looking at a kid named Bucky Irving from Oregon who's a little bit of a shorter guy. Bucky Irving needs a complimentary back with him. He is not a futured back. Brooks Benson, those guys to meet Lloyd Wright. Those guys can play as featured backs. Alan from Alan from Wisconsin's a little bit more of a power guy. Probably could use somebody with a little bit more explosiveness to play with. I think Bucky Irving is the opposite. He's explosive, but he needs somebody to play with powers.
How likely do you think it is that Brooks is actually there when you pick in the second round.
Everybody's got him earmarked and we'll see. We'll see what happens with teams in the medical on him. Are they gonna take a back that's had a knee injury.
Everybody's kind of.
Got him earmarked here at Dallas. You know, to me, I could see it happening at fifty six. I could also see Dallas picking a linebacker at fifty six. I think those are the two positions you kind of need to keep an eye.
On, assuming they're gonna go offensive line.
For assuming it's a tackle ciner, some combination of offensive linemen in the first All.
Right, let's go and take our first break. We'll come back. We want to hit the running back position in one one segment. So now let's go. We can jump into just to give a scatter report about right, and we'll jump into my receiver when we come back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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Welcome back to the second segment of the Break Life and That s WBC Mortgage Studios presented by LG. This segment brought to you by blockchain dot Com. All right, let's talk about the wide receiver position. I want to start with Brandon Cooks. He was a guy that I think we all universally thought a lot of when the Cowboys acquired his services last season, and I personally I think he played okay. I don't think he was bad. I don't think he was great. I think he played okay.
My question for you guys is how much more do you think he has that he can provide for this team this coming year, especially with it being his second year with DAK, second year in the offense, second year with CD. How much more do you think he can provide this team?
Simply put a lot.
I think when you look at his body of work from twenty twenty three, yes, he really started to come into his own on the back half of that season, but it was a slow start on the first half of the season, which makes you wonder if he was able to kind of hit the ground running, what could last season have been for Brandon Cooks. Could it have approached a thousand yards? Especially with Michael Gallup having his struggles.
So I feel like if you put it in that context alone in this season, especially when you add to the context of he is going into a contract yere right, so he also has a lot to prove in that capacity as well.
I just feel like there was.
A lot of meat left on the ball when it comes to Brandon Cooks's utilization. As far as Mike McCarthy returning as a play caller, I think you'll see much more of Brandon Cooks being used in twenty twenty four, and I think he's going to take advantage of it.
Yeah, I think that's exactly what was smith last year was more of what I feel like that they just weren't using him enough. How many times did we sit here a week after week talking about and Brian breaking down plays and saying how many times he was open but the ball he wasn't targeted, and the ball wouldn't
go his way. So I think that after Mike McCarthy analyzes the whole season and everything, and seeing his production towards the second half, towards that end of the season, I think that we would go into a year where we see him be a lot more involved and teams take him more as a bigger weapon in combination with CD Lamban what he's doing, because Cidi had a great year as well.
Where's the vertical passing game with this guy? Where was all the speed down the field? Where was the you know, there was a I think it was the commander's game. The commanders couldn't cover all of us running routes, you know. I mean, I think he made that commander's game. I think he made several plays down the field and stuff.
That's what I was hopeful for with the When you start to talk about Brandon Cooks everything for him though, he started to become the guy when they figured out that Michael Gallup couldn't catch the underneath stuff on third down, that they just went ahead and started picking for for Cooks to be able to run those routes. He made some really key catches underneath. He's really not a big
slant guy, which you know Lamb is. So yeah, if it's more involvement for Cooks, I'd like to see it more down the field than what we saw last time. But you know, this is a very very deep draft and a lot of different spots, a lot of different types of guys, a lot of different body types, a
lot of different abilities in here. So if they're looking to if they have that pick where they say best failed player on the board, it happens to be a wide receiver, it's probably gonna be a pretty good pick because there there's a there's a quality in this draft when it comes to that wide receiver room.
Who has the best chance right now on this team, not just not the draft, but just already on this team of being a wide receiver.
Three MM.
Gonna go with Jaalen Tolbert. I love the strides that the young man made from year one to year two. He was overwhelmed in year one during the headlights was the phrase that he used. But when the Cowboys traded for Brandon Cooks, first thing I said is Jalen Tobert needs to just attach himself, glue himself to Brandon Cooks and learn as much as he can and he did uh and he showed a lot of improvement because of that.
So nearly every.
Time that ball was targeted to Jayleen Tobart, did I say yeah, Yeah, My head said Brooks, Okay.
Too many Jalen's.
Whenever Jalen Tolbert got the opportunity and he was targeted by Dak Prescott, more often than not, he made he took advantage of it. And I remember one distinctive game where he had to drop, but the confidence wasn't lost because Dak Prescott went right back to him two plays later and it was a first down. So you can see that the confidence is also there from QB one.
So when you have that confidence from the franchise quarterback and now you have your you know, your self confidence is built up to say, hey, I can actually play this game at this level. I do see Jaylen Tolbert and he should get more reps considering Michael Gallup is no longer in the building.
I want everyone to be great, and that's like a very It's an unrealistic thing because not everyone can be great, or the start player on offense or the team as a whole. So I'm just sitting here wondering can Jalen Tolbert even though he did show moments last season where he has taken that step up easy enough though I don't know. But then thinking about his specific role, that's where I'm like, Okay, do I need to lower more
my mental personal expectation to wear Okay? Is he just enough for the role that you actually need him to be?
And I don't know. I can't answer that question right now here. I don't know how I exactly feel.
Right here's my approach to that when because if you go back and you look at Tobart's film from twenty twenty three, there were several times where the ball was being forced to Michael Gallop for example, where maybe those balls should have been tossed to Jayaln Tobert, and then in the subsequent game you will see Michael Gallup's targets dropped to like one or two, and then you'll see Tobart's increase and Tobert was much more productive running the
same being asked to run the same routes in the same packages. So I feel like that was McCarthy kind of grooming him to say, Hey, if Gallup is not in the building next year, this is going to be a huge shot for you, and I believe that his build is not entirely dissimilar.
Right. He has a great catch radius.
Seeing him a couple of told jag Sway catches on the sideline, which is something that Michael Gallup became famous for here in Dallas. I believe the athleticism is there. The only thing that was lacking for Jaylen Tolbert and year one was the mental component. I feel like he has the mental component now, so the only thing he needs now is utilization in order to kind of make it all come together.
Jalen Polk from the University of Washington.
Like, I'm not playing this game.
On the drive Ricky Show, Ricky Pierce saw Florida wide receiver.
Yeah, better than any of the guys they got here. Let's go now, let me ask you this.
Yeah, no talking like second third round Malachai Corley. They brought Corley in.
I know it was a lot of it had to do with visit, probably to get the medical because he got COVID before the combine, so he didn't get to do he didn't get to do all the visits and stuff. All three of those guys I named are better player.
But let me ask you this, are you willing to you said, second third round? Are you willing to knowing that you got you got areas where you need help?
Center?
Offensive?
I know center, offensive tackles, running back, linebacker probably are way more of a priority for you to be able to win games next season.
Senate third wide receiver, second third round. Sure, yeah, so.
Are you willing? Are you willing to forego those positions in to get the receiver.
If the players or the wide receiver players are better on my board? In that say, I'm going to try and dress my needs. The first two picks is what I'm going to try and do. I get in the third, fourth, fifth round. If you know, I know, Patrick's going to do a mock draft for you this week. He's going to trade back, he's going to trade up, He's gonna do all. So what I'm saying, if I could find a way to grab some of these picks, and this this organization has proven one thing. When I told them
that they needed a defensive end, what they do. They drafted a wide receiver in the first round. They've proven they can do that and it worked, and it worked. You know they will they will sit there and say, oh, well, hey, yeah, watch this we'll take I'll take that third round center off your board at pick thirty and be Travis Frederick.
You know they'll do that here. So to me, if I need to address the center tackle position, if I need to address the linebacker position, I'm not gonna let The one position I think that's holding me hostage right now is center. That's the one position that's holding me hostage. Maybe the left tackles holding me hostage too.
But at least you got options.
But I have, so Glass.
I'm gonna get that center, and then from then on, I'm gonna take whoever I need.
Whoever I see that guy, that guy, that guy, that guy. That's what I'm going to do.
So whatever we're thinking, think the opposite, because that's why they might do.
Oh but they've proven that they have they've proven that that when I when I'm telling them they needed an edge flow shoe, you know they need this guy to play. What do they do? They took CD Lamb and they took one of the best players in the NFL. So to me, yes, who's who's going to be the third receiver? Polk Coray, any one of those guys you want to know.
You know, I'm actually very interested interested to see if they can find more of a role for Cavante Turpin. I really believe that you look at the productivity books, yeah, exactly, but you look at the productivity in college. Yeah, you look at what he did in college. I think he is more than capable of being at least a third receiver in the NFL. The question is just will they be willing to use him in that way? And if they are, I think that could be a very very
nice player for you, at least for this year. I don't know what happens beyond this year, but for this year, I do think that could be a very nice player.
I think you'll see more usage for Cavante Turpin this year. But for me, it's just it's Jalen Tobert strides forward. In addition to the fact that that's your former third round pick, right, so that you know that value is there as well. You want to see him developed, you want to see him become an impact guy, and you move Michael Gallup out of the situation so that he could,
you know, have that potential shot. And not to say they're not going to take a wide receiver, because that's still definitely on the boardotentially, but I mean until slash unless they do Jaylen Tobert, it's your keys at wide receiver three.
But yeah, I do agree. I think is gonna get more use more, use.
To know David signed Lamb yet either, m hm think about that. Yeah, you know, I mean, how does that kind of how is that all gonna shake out?
Yeah, we'll Why are you adding more stuff into the pot right now?
Because that's where we are right He's just because that's where we are right now.
That's where we are right making things together in there.
Just throw everything in there.
Much better to talk about on April seventeen, on.
July.
On July.
Yeah, we're sitting on the as we're sitting on the court in like we're seeing.
Well, you know, the receiver room right now, the whole exact Martin.
I will remind you of April seventeen.
All Right, we're gonna take a final break, come back a little. We'll talk a little bit about the tight end position, maybe get the offensive tackle on center. We'll dead in the second is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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Back to the break, Hey, let's talk about that Draft Guide.
It's one of the best magazines you're gonna get to get you ready for this NFL Draft. A lot of hard work goes into that. I know I've spent a lot of my years working on that thing, and it is in depth scouting reports in the top college players with more than four hundred prospects, plus the breakdowns of the Cowboys.
Needs at each position.
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Welcome back to the final segment of the break presented by LG. We've talked about quarterback, running back, wide receiver, and now let's jump to tight end. Let's start first with assessment. I want you guys to give me an assessment of Luke schoon Maker, and I want you to go back to the first time he saw him in training camp, to injury and other things like what have you seen from him and what do you project that to be coming into this season?
So hard to project because his sample size it wasn't what you wanted it to be. As as the second round pick. You missed all a training camp with the plantar fasciat this issue, and then when you come back, you're you're slow to get back into the groove, which makes that tracks. You're a rookie who missed all the training camp, right, you know, thank the Good Lord for the the leap forward that Jake Ferguson was able to take. So you're absolutely solid there for now in the future.
But from Schoolmaker, I did see some progress, so I'll give him credit for that. He still struggled at times as far as the understanding of the package that he might have been in in any particular time. Blocking was definitely up there. Like I am a big fan of his blocking. That's something that he did very well at Michigan as well as a play as a player or as a pass catcher. There's development that needs to happen there.
He needs to be more consistent with being able to bring in some of those some of those targets that he's getting Fromdak Scott. We saw on a couple of occasions, one being an end zone, red zone, red zone toss where he just couldn't come up with the pass. Uh and you and you need him to be able to do that if you want him building confidence with Dak Prescott. So for me, blocking it's there, It's been there at Michigan,
it's going to continue to be there. But as a pass catcher, he really needs to take that next step to be that true compliment to Jake Ferguson.
So that's kind of where I am. I think he can.
As long as he stays healthy this offseason, gets a full training camp under his belt, we should see some progress.
Yeah.
You got that shoulder surgery though, right, Yeah, dealing with that.
Let me introduce you to Eric All from Iowa. No, I'm just kidding. Eric All is a really good player from Iowa. By the way, Yeah, I think the thing. I am the I'm the number one driver of the Lukes Schoonmaker bus. I'm the guy, so when you get on the bus, you see me first. And at Iowa he was an outstanding blocker. He was a great portam
attack player when they ran the ball. If you look at Blake Korum, the success that he had at Michigan running the ball, Michigan win in the National Championship, Michigan doing a lot of great things. Michigan a very good offense Michigan a very physical offense.
He was part of that. He was part of that.
And so what happens is scouts are taught as if you see it once, you'll see it again. The problem is we didn't see it with Luke Schoonmaker. Whether it was the foot, now the shoulder, he keeps getting set back. I think Schoonmaker cares a lot about his job. I think he wants to be good at his job. I think he wants to develop into a tight end. I think he understands the pressure that's on him as a player.
As a second round pick, they need Luke Schoonmaker to play a lot better because they did not run the ball well with him in there, or with what was going on at center. These are positions. We're looking at it right now and we're trying to figure that out. How do you run the ball better? Point of attack tight end. Luke Schoonmaker's second round pick was supposed to be that guy hasn't been that guy, you know. And I'm sitting here looking like thinking, Okay, did I miss
one here. I'm not calling it a bus or anything. I'm saying did I miss one here? But the Michigan film showed a much better player, and I think those guys upstairs saw the same thing I did, and that's why they drafted the player. But the shoulder injury now is set back. He'll fight through it, He'll do what he has to do. Brit Brown will get him right. But they need him to play better.
Yeah, definitely.
As both of y'ah have said, we have not seen enough of him, And I don't know what it is, but something about his body built that I just don't necessarily love for his position.
I don't know what it's like. He has a type of body that it makes you.
Think of like he's not going to be as athletic or as flexible and being able to Yeah, yeah he is. But I'll tell you this, one thing that I love about him, and you talked about his dedication in wanting to be good at his job, is the amount of time that I've seen him, even through injuries and everything, work, work, work. And the last player that I've seen work so hard
like that was shan Lee. Shan Lee has been the only other player that I've seen through whatever setback that spends the time out there even on his own, just kind of working separately and working through everything. And I absolutely love about him that he has that type of dedication and willing to put in the work, the necessary work too.
Hopefully it's a shame it's with Britt Brown though, you know, it's a shame he's doing with his injury right now, the hard work and all that.
Yeah, and he wants to get back. But man, they need players.
They need guys to step up, and you're right about Ferguson, the development of Ferguson has been wonderful, So they need Luke to kind of Ye we've seen adulted Schultz. I mean, I was so critical Dalton trolls. He blocked me on Twitter, which is fine.
He blocked everybody.
If it takes me getting blocked by Luke's schoonmaker, I'm driving, I'm driving the bus.
It's the suing here.
I'm fine. Let me let me.
He's if whatever I can do to help you block, you block me, but block the Yeah.
I tell you what when it comes to tight ends and we talk about and and really quickly excellent point because about Schoolmaker last training camp, his first training camp ever, he was out with the Plantar fast shat is what did you see him doing mental reps.
He was always on the sideline.
He was always asking wells, He was always asking questions to Jake Ferguson, trying to figure out hate him the shot, trying to get the nuances, whatever he could get.
He was trying to consume.
But and for a rookie, Doc tells you that's.
Very coachable and he wants to learn, he wants to get better. And to Brian's point, the Cowboys now need him to put that on the field. But an interesting one and he's coming back from the torn ACL. Lets talk about John Stevens Junior. I mean this is a young man undrafted. He made waves, serious waves in training camp. He was making waves in preseason, not unlike that Marveon Overshoan was doing and unfortunately they both suffered the same
fate torn ACL. But when you talk about John Stevens Junior, I think he can make some problems for a player like Peyton Hendershot, who's shown that he can be a player as well. But Hindershot, he was on ir last season until later in the season, came back, made a splash payer two on special teams, but not necessarily offensively.
So when you're now talking about behind school Maker and Jake Ferguson, what's that battle with Hindershot John Stevens Junior looked like and also Princeton Fan looks like Princeton Fann has basically taken Sean McEwan out of the equation. So I'm really intrigued and excited to see what John Stevens will be now that he's healthy or getting back to health, and how he becomes that that catching threat. Right, because he's long, he's lanky, he can be a red zone
threat for you. This is a guy who can line up at tight end or you could pop him out and he can give you some slot duties in the red zone.
So we talk about receiver.
You can get some of those reps in the rid zone to a rangy, lanky guy like John Stevens.
So I think there's value there for him.
All right, let's shumve to the center position. And here's my question. Last year, obviously they had Tyler Biottish and according to I think many people who were watching didn't think it was his best year. There is a belief that the Cowboys are looking at their current roster and thinking Hoffman has an opportunity to be their center this year. If they don't draft someone, I think we all think
they will. But if they don't, they think or there's a belief that maybe they think Hoffman could be that guy. Based on what you've seen from Hoffman, do you think Hoffman could be at least as good as what Beaddish was last year in a year where maybe it wasn't the greatest play from the center position.
I think Hoffman has the potential to eventually be a starter in this league. But you meant you said something a couple of segments ago that holds true and permeates everything we're talking about. You need whatever player you're talking about to be good right now.
He has to be that right now. So he has to.
And though Tyler Biaddis didn't necessarily play at the Pro Bowl level that he did the year prior, basically you lost a Pro Bowl center, right So can Hoffman be that good eventually?
Possibly? So right now I.
Don't feel good enough about that to be able to go into this draft and not look at the center position as being one of my highest, if not my highest priority.
So Hoffman he.
Has the ability, but maybe given time, he could become that.
But guess what, you don't have right now time.
I got four centers in this draft.
That's where we're going.
I got four centers maybe five that that I feel that could be better than Haffman and even be Ottish. Ka Okay, And what I'm thinking about like right now, Yeah, what I'm thinking about doing is I need to go here. I need to go early because what's going to happen is when you get down to the fifth round, maybe late fourth or fifth round, you start to get players like Piattish. So I'm trying to upgrade my center spot. Okay, Powers Johnson from Oregon is that's his hyphenated last name.
That's his so's. He's one of these guys. He's the best center in the draft. The problem is he's dealing with some medical things and I'm not going to get into all of them. It's keeping him to It's one of those things that might be keeping him off some people's boards. Cowboys brought him in as a thirty visit guy. They talked to this kid. They know the medical and all that. Let's see how comfortable they really really are. There's a lot of mock drafts that had him going
very high. I'm sure Patrick's seen them all and then all of a sudden, the medical information came back from the combine and he started falling down boards and people were saying, oh, maybe you can get him now at fifty six, Maybe you could trade way back, Maybe you could get him at thirty one and trade back. Keep you know, doing all that. So he's the best center. Barton from from Duke. Super smart guy, high intelligence guy. Not just because of Duke, but you watch him play football.
He's that kind of guy. He's a tackle, he's played center early in his career. He's played all the offensive line positions. He's mean, he's nasty, he's tough, he can, he's athletic. There's a lot of really positive things about him. I don't think he gets to you. I just don't. I just think that maybe that people are saying, well, he's a little bit healthier, but even though he's dealing with the shoulder thing, he's a little bit healthier, healthier
than what you have with powers. Johnson Fraser from West from West Virginia. Here's a guy. If you watch the Texas games, Texas has got two monsters that play inside.
They got a kid named Murphy, and they got a guy named Sweat.
Both gonna be in the draft.
Both they'll be in drafts. One's gonna be pick probably in the first round. Sweat if he you know, if he if he cleared out everything.
That, you know.
Sometimes we have some problems and trust me, goes.
To school there, he has the same problems.
So the thing about it is, though, the the thing about these guys, he blocks those guys. So I'm watching him block NFL type players and handle them. Yeah, so I'm thinking Frasier West Virginia. Maybe a trade back situation. I don't think he gets to you at fifty six. This is the problem I'm running into now, you know, might have to go up.
I know we're something.
Just to be clear, did you think Barton doesn't get to you at twenty four?
I don't think Barton gets you.
Don't think Biden gets you at twenty four.
And I think I have powers ahead of him, powers Johnson ahead of him, but I don't. I think people will look at Barton and they will say the healthier guy, similar type players. These guys are powers. Johnson's three hundred and twenty eight pounds, he's six y four, and he just yeah, and he plays second level they pull him, he gets into his block.
He's just not completely healthy.
Somebody will say he's healthy enough for me, which this football team might do it because they don't have anybody that's good enough like him to play center. He will make a difference in this running.
Game when I don't want you to get to I mean, obviously the medicals are the medicals y stuff. That's because sometimes the medicals can be right right now. Thing like I don't know how healthy is right now? Sometimes it is, Hey, I don't how long?
Yeah?
Can he only play four years without see?
We we they lost Frederick because of an unfortunate illness. But you know, but you only man, you had one of the best centers in National Football League only play for you first just a little bit of time, yeah, just like a college player, just a little bit of time, and then he moved on, you know. So yeah, it's
their centers are Van Pran from Georgia. Another guy, okay, so yeah, good player, you know, three hundred pound guy, really good athletes, second level guy, pull him, reach him, do all these things with him.
So now we're starting to get into the.
Guys that were kind of a little bit like what we just dealt with what we had at center with Bey Oddish.
So to me, if you're.
Dallas, it's got to happen early, first, second, third.
Potentially, Yes, yeah, that's where it's got to happen.
And for those for those top three, I think it's going to have to happen first or second.
To be honest with you, so, uh, yeah, that's.
Where you're at, right I mean, honestly, I think I think center is probably if I had to just kind of rate them, I think center is the position. I think that's most necessary that the Galboys get right this draft because I really don't see a lot of options there. There's, like I said, you tackle position, you might not want to do it, but you got an option. You know, you linebacker, you might not love your depth, but you got some guys you can roll out there day one.
Running Back that's another one where I'm like, I don't feel comfortable with where they are right now as we sit. So those are probably my two positions. I'm like, you gotta do something early in the draft.
Of those center, you have an option to tackle. There's depth at running back that through the draft that you can go later. If you could go later there, I mean, there's the problem they're going to have is if they're looking for that one technique and I know they drafted Manzi Smith, Mike Zimmer, God, I love your brother, Please do something for him, I mean help him.
But that's kind of where you're at right now.
That's where you're at right now because you don't have a lot of depth at that one technique when it comes to this draft. And let's let's sweat And there's people I've talked to people around the league with sweat. They're like, they don't think he works hard, they don't think he really cares. You know, there's I mean, these are things. This is not coming from me or Dallas Cowboys dot com. I mean, this is just things I'm
hearing around the league. So please don't tag us at sweat and say, oh, Dallas Cowboys dot com, Cowboys, I think you're a boss coming Not true.
Yeah, you're gonna get tagged in a lot of things. Get ready. But but but.
Talking to people around the league, I will make that clear. He's off a lot of boards because of the of the stuff with the off the field stuff, you know, and maybe that's the one where you say it's too good to pass.
Well.
I will tell you this as somebody that watched every single down of every single Texas game last year. Dude can play. Yeah, Like, I don't know about the off field. I haven't spent time with him off the field. I don't know people will spend time with him off the field. What I know is on the field, he was probably the most dynamic player on that defense last season.
And that was a him and Murphy or for real.
Yeah, he was a guy that was always making plays and always making plays from the one technique, which is not a common thing to see. But I will tell you a guy can play. So whatever it is that's off the field that has to be factored in. Because we've seen guys that have a lot of talent do a lot of things in college. You have to factor in those things because sometimes it doesn't translate because of off the field stuff. But I can tell you to do can play.
You will sell your soul in that room to get a player that can play.
Yeah, he can play.
I mean you were like, Okay, tell me again what he did? Okay, what else? All right, let's go, let's go turn it in. Turn the card in.
You know, really you will you will grimace, you will flinch, you will close your eyes, but then you remember how good the player is, you know.
But that's the center. Is the center.
Like I say, I am trying to get better than be oddish, and I think I could do it if you let me do it in the first couple of picks.
All right, that's a wrap. We'll be back next Wednesday. It'll be day before draft, so we'll be getting you guys ready for the draft and what we think is gonna happen as the draft starts on Thursday night. Till then for Patrick Walker, Brian brought us Amber Garcia. I'm Derek Eagleton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
This has been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.