Cowboys Break: Recapping the Scrimmage

We're life on Hottar, California right Sunday morning, Monday morning, and the Cowboys have the day off. They will be chilling the day. They'll be back at practice tomorrow tomorrow at three thirty their normal time. They got a week of practice Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday this week, and then on Friday they head off for their first preseason game against the San Francisco forty nine ers. Before that, though, yesterday, they had their Blue White scrimmage. Some interesting moments from

that day. We'll go around the table in a little bit and get some observations from these guys of things that they saw, things you guys should be aware of. We'll also talk a little bit about some injuries. There's some pretty high profile names that if that are on the injury report. Now we'll talk about how important those injuries are and the status of those guys. And then we're gonna get into the defensive backs, which I believe has been the best unit so far out here at

training camp in my opinion. We'll talk about the cornerbacks and the safeties and get some opinions on that where those two positions are as far as positions and starters and in depth. How's everybody feeling this morning? I feel great. Great, It's Monday, and we don't really have to work as hard as we usually do, and that's an awesome way to start the week. And mind, you feel great because of SODA's soda? Like, have you like energized? Soda has

me hungry? Um, but hey, I weighed myself this morning. I'm down seven pounds since I started. So yeah, that's what I'm talking about. For those of you don't know what soda is, it's a weight loss program that you guys, You and Brian are, yeah, me and the big guy. Yeah, he's down twenty five so h yeah. Amber was supposed to be on it and I didn't even want to mention that she was liked. I got on the scale and I've gained because you're not following the diet. I

a diet, that's part of the whole thing. Yeah, you don't need it first, but say I'm working out more. So when you worked out more, it's a muscle. So you got a gain weight when you hit. When you get muscle, right, I hope it's a muscles up. Oh yeah, I'm out on diet and work out. We're just trying to get you right, like we gotta get you right. I felt a bud for Cody Wickman. What kind of

calf injury? And you know what that feels like? You said something the doctor said, are meaning the Some of the coaches were saying they could linker a whole week. It's like a whole week shot three months. For those who don't know Nick, Well, I'm sure he's treatment. Yeah, you on the head. You just like limping around and complaining, yeah instead of actually getting treatment. Dam all right, starting it off very simple. No, it's not me. He needs

treatment and he doesn't get it. That's a good point. It's fair. I've been to the emergency room three times since this whole thing. So no, I've had plenty of treatment. It's all good. All right, Let's talk about some of these uh some stuff around the Cowboys. Let's start with the blanket coverage. I have one question for you guys today. Rod Marnelly said about the defensive depth. There's not a

lot of defensive line depth. I'm sorry, there's not a lot of difference between first, second, and third with some of these guys. Of the depth guys. Blank has had a better camp of the of the guys that are not the starting type players, the guys that are lower than that. I'll throw a couple of names for you. Armstrong, Hill, Jolks, Covington talk, Oh, Wise, gotcha give me give me a name of a guy that you think is at the best camp of those kinds of guys. Wow, best camp

is obviously Don's Armstrong. Absolutely, yeah. I think that's the answer to that. But if we're gonna go to the next way, Daniel Wise has been really good and Jock says too. I know Jokes is a guy I talk about a lot, But both of those Wise I think I feel like they're not that far off from each other. I think Wise is a guy that they it's like a young like Tyrone Crawford in training because he can play everything. I mean, you see him on the end, you see him a tackle. I think he could probably

get into a one technique. He's I just think he's he's a versatile player that they had him coming off the edge a couple of days ago. Joe Jackson is another one who actually he hasn't had this amazing camp, but they let him tackle out there yesterday and all of a sudden, he was all over the place. So I mean that it's a cliche, but it's a very real thing. You know, some of these guys need the contact aspect to really kind to show their game. And

maybe Joe Jackson's one of them because he looked good yesterday. Yeah, or take a step back, because that's the other thing. When you start hitting and then you got you see a little bit more about what they can do, especially offensive guys as far as being hitting out I meaning on the ball, all those kinds of and there's like they've said, I mean, there is something to it, because when you get to the NFL and you practice all summer and what's one hundred, what's fifty percent? Like I

don't know what you tyrants fifty percent? What's my fifty percent? But when you get to a game or practice like this and you're like, just tackle, it's everyone's one hundred percent. So it doesn't matter because that's where most fights happen at practice. It's a guy that hits harder than he's supposed to and they're like, wait, and now you hit my guy. It's a cheap shot, and now you start fighting. You get to a game and it's just like it's

all in, let's go. That's also why you know you have these teams that Cowboys used to this where you pull two teams together to practice during training camp. I think that's a recipe before disaster because if you've been practicing at one level, like your team, you know kind of how hard you hit, and you know how fast you're going, some of it's not on the same page,

and the other team might be. They might be going all out and you, and then all of a sudden, you have that collision of these two different mindsets and then guys take personal, take it personal, and then they really don't care about it. Their George chuns exactly like you just we will hit him hard. Yeah, so I've been terrible every time I've ever seen it. I mean Chargers and we went to San Diego. That was just

a fight fest. Denver flows out Adam ripped his helmet off and threw it and and basically hit a player in the head with it. Um I hear the Raider thing like that was Yeah, Raiders and Rams like malice at the Palace and it's terrible. Yeah, that's crazy. But I saw this one on the NFL network. There are several teams a day they're starting practices with each other, and I was just like, good for them. I'm I'm glad that. I don't know why I always laugh about

it's an inside joke. When the Rams walked out the practice that day. Day was so mad at those people. Were people just their their version of us. They just walked out on their their media team rubbed me the wrong way. And it was weird because Dave, that was a point where your first second, thirty year, third year, and he was, you know, nothing really gets David like rattle. Yeah, that's wondered, like this guy's just walked out and that it was like our group, you know, but they come

out like what we got here? They just were they were kind of acting like they owned the place. I was like, who the hell are y'all? Oh man, that would have been funny if you first time I've seen you, because he's always the guy that's like, doesn't really matter, like calm down, who cares? You know, which is true, which is a good attitude. But that particular day, those rams wasn't having it. Should have been in there helping my guys. Yeah I didn't, though I don't know what

how much help I would have been. Let's talk some injuries. There are a couple of guys that have popped on the injury report this weekend while we weren't doing shows or want to catch up on Zach Martin and Mark Cooper to be exact, and then also just for kicks, give me an update if you have one on shout Lee. Start first with Zach Martin. What are we hearing about him? Um?

I think here and that it's enough for him to rest, you know, I mean, he's an injury, he got a back injury, and he's you know, I just think it's a situation where he's had something in the in the summer, or this isn't the first time he's had a little irritation there, so this might be a manage a thing they have to manage, which is good. It's a thing. It's a thing they're gonna have to manage. It's just just it just is. It's a back problem for an

offensive lineman like you. Your whole the whole position is about like leveraging your body and having people push back against you, like that's gonna hurt your back when you sit down, which is literally I'm not saying sit but I'm saying when you when when guy's rushing an interior lineman. The point is they want to basically get to a point where they get a stalemate, and they just have this guy. The nature of that is your back is arched and you're being bent backwards. So it's that's there's

no way around to be good. YEA. Luckily, you know from the MRI it sounds it's not a big deal. It's not like this herniated disc or some major problem. It's just an irritation. But you know, every time he plays his position, it's probably gonna get irritated. Luckily, he's one of the toughest mofos around, so I have no doubt he can fight through that, but it's just probably gonna be something he has to manage. But how much

does that concern you? Knowing that again, talking about the fact that every play that's probably gonna be something that's gonna happen to him. And when you start talking about a full season, his availability, his effectiveness, We've seen other guys with back injuries. Do you think he'll be as good as he has always been or do you think this affects him just knowing that that irritation is there and it may not be anything they can really do about it. Both. I think he'll be as good as

he's been, and I think it will affect him. I think he's that type of guy. I also think the next time he hits any one, they'll be wearing a Giants jersey. That's what There's no point putting him out here. How many times did Jerry mentioned the word the giant Giants? Yeah, he's mentioned a few times. Yeah, I mean the Giants. Oh it was another injury Cooper. Yeah, he said He's like, if we were lacing up doctor Jerry, you know, if we were to play the Giants, he'd be out there.

But what's you know, why risk him transitioned right into your Cooper, which I'm Mariy Cooper's fine. He's he's fine. He bruised his heel, and again it's Oxnard. He's a Marii Cooper. Let's not be silly. He's fine. I'm very confident about that. So you know, he might be out there tomorrow. He might not be, but he's fine. But whether he's out there or not, the the idea is that he's fine. It's just mean he's not out there.

They're just not put him out, you know what they're really going on here, right, But I mean we've been hearing about how small this plane is from Dallas, I mean from Oxnard to San Francisco, trying to get some guys. Yeah, if guys are kind of banked up, they're like, okay, you're not playing in the game. You stay back, you stay back there. They're just working on the itinerary if I'm smart. Honestly, Sean Lee dinged his MCL He says he feels good, he's progressing well. Um, he's working through

his rehab. He doesn't know when he'll be back. It's like we talked about, it's probably one of those things where if there was a game on Sunday, it would probably be a different story. But again, why are you a thirty two year old veteran with an injury history. Why are you trying to rush him through? Just be patient. Um, I'm curious to see when we see him again, because I don't know the answer to that. Injury provides opportunity, That's what I always say. And uh, basically just giving

these young linebackers a chance to do something. Luke Gifford's a guy that gets to do some things there a linebacker. I think he's making making some plays just since they were they were able to have a little bit more contact yesterday. Was there a guy a linebacker that that maybe stood out to you a little bit when we talk about opportunity, you know? Not not really. I don't think that they those guys did a lot. Maybe Brian

Scott Scott's eye has you know, some linebackers there. I haven't seen that yet, but I will say this, I think linebacker is a position that is a little bit It's not as deep as you think it is because it's very top heavy. But after two, I really just two. The questions start at three. The questions start with on Lee's hell, then after that, who Who's Who's a lot to make the team? Oh see, I think I feel pretty differently about that. I think Joe Thomas is a

lot to make the team. Vers I forget him every single time he's on the roster. I just forget he's on the team, which I don't know why. Well, it's fair because there's not omous there's not a lot of snaps for him. But like he's a solid he is a solid player. I remember me of Durant like in that way, like he's just a solid guy, not a great guy. Is the number get out of the forties? I can't. I can't take you seriously, And I don't know why. I don't know why. That's stupid. That's a

dumb Is there any good linebacker in the NFL? That's Jones? He's a boss? Yeah, he is a cockl. Yeah, Devin White LSU also going to be a boss in the forties, just saying LBU. He's just gonna run off the LSU guys. Um no, I will, I mean, no, let's keep it on the tracks because I think I think justin march Lowar's a lot to make this team, a lot a lot. He has been good out here. Did you see his one handed interception the other day? It was great. He

made an awesome play. He can play multiple positions. He's a special teams guy. He's a Garrett type of guy, just a you know, good attitude, good dude. I mean, you know you can't. I can't definitively say Locke because it's the NFL. Dan Bailey got cut last year. But what do I think of five or six? I guarantee you six and I think seven. Maybe. Yeah, they love they love linebackers because that's who does the heavy lifting at special teams. Sean Lee's got an injury history, all

that good stuff. So if you're right, really there's only one spot, one to two spots left for the other guys, because I think they already think that those five five are here. And then you're looking at Luke Gifford, looking Chris Covington. Um, you know, Nate Hall has done some stuff. I don't know if I'm ready to put him on the team, but there's Yeah, it's kind of an open competition between a bunch of those young, cheap guys. Ye, but I think I think Gifford is the guy. The

next guy there. I mean, I think he's guy right now. I think he's you know, and we talked about him. It's like, what do you gotta do. All you gotta do is really be better than Chris Covington or maybe Justin Marshallelard. But I feel I feel like you keeps six. I just feel, you know, right now, in August fifth, I'll be surprised if Justin Marshall Lollard isn't on the team. All right, let's take our let's take our first break. When we come back, we're gonna get into some observations

from the Blue White scrimmage that happened yesterday afternoon. Really fun time. These guys will tell us what they saw, some things that stood out to them, so that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com. Are you if you're like me and you love I mean, if you have a thing, then cutting the court is scary. But then I found out I could switch to direct TV Now and still get the live sports I love. No satellite needed, no bulky hardware, no annual contract, just

that the live sports. You tried Direct TV Now for ten dollars a month for three months, there's a direct TV now dot Com, direct tv now more for your thing, that's our thing. He's called really limited time price for a literal lit the package if three months when his monthday full price currently been him forty dollars and let's cans.

Prices may change you subscribers on cancel any time, counting by package and maybe limit you six pack if you want the most interesting, up to the minute Dallas Cowboys news straight from the Star in Frisco. How about exclusive and on command. That's right, news and nuggets you can't find anywhere else. With our exclusive Cowboys content on Alexa, you can have all the answers, secrets, stories and more. What's Stephen Jones thinking during a game? What's Joe Looney's

favorite pregame meal? We take your questions to Cowboys players and coaches, and you can hear the answers directly back to you. Just say Alexa Open. Dallas Cowboys Star Sports Tours is the only official fan travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, offering exclusive game weekend travel packages with sideline access and photo ops with current players, alumni, and cheerleaders.

That's not all, though, You'll get to talk x's and os with Senior Director of Player Personnel, Will McClay and of course, with yours truly me, Brian broad Us you can trust the official fan travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, and with us you'll travel like a pro. Visit Cowboys Travel dot com to book your travel package today. While a player could look good on paper, it's when he's out on the field that you really find out what

he's made of. That's why the Cowboys rely on more than just stats and scouting reports when building their team. When picking the tractor, it's why you should rely on more than just specs and features. You've got to take it out and put it to the test. The Cowboys did when they named John Deer their official tractor experience one for yourself. Visit my John Dear Dealer dot com. Slash football. Back to the Break, Welcome back. It is the second second of the break, live from Hawksdock, California.

It's DOLF Cowboys training camp. It is day I think like nine or something. I'm so lost, well I even know what day of the week it is. Yesterday was practice eighth, makes this is probably day twelves, the halfway day. Oh yeah, like it's we're you know, like we're up at the top of the hill if this is you know, the roller coaster, and we're about to go down real

fast because we got an off day. There's there's two travel days in the next five, there's a game, and then all of a sudden, we're hopping a plane to Hawaii and going back to Dallas. Yes, I'm mixed, I'm excited. I feel like we've been here forever. Yeah, all right, let's let's get into some observations from the Blue White scrimmage. Why want you guys to tell me some things. We'll go around the table. Tell me some things you saw

yesterday that you thought were really, really interesting. Nick, let's start with you. Yeah, number one, I'd like to change the word and not call it a scrimmage anymore. But it's a scrimmage, Nick, Okay, Um, just just a few plays of tackling out there. But sorry, I do that after the fact. I get all your promotions him nitpicking right now, because that's always Nick though. Well, everyone's like, where's the scrimmage start. I'm like, it is starting. It's

just tackling, so stop. It's not like a kickoff. There's no heads tails or whatever. But we call it a scrimmage, all right. Anyways, um, there were some some tackling going on. I thought the running backs, Um, I thought a Jordan Chun, that's a thing. Now I think he's a guy. Jamaine's all the Walley was supposed to be the thumper back.

That's not happen and we don't see that happen. And Jordan Chun, I think, is the one taking the most advantage of Zeke not being here, because Tony Pollard is going to do what he does and that's good, and Webber did some nice things too, But I think Jordan Chun is a guy. He's a big, powerful back, and I think he's making a difference. You know. That's interesting.

I actually thought that Pollard was the guy who's making the most of it, because when we first started camp, it seemed like the first team reps are pretty much going to Gerald Jackson, sorry Uma Jackson, Jaris Jackson and h and to Chun. And it seemed like as it's progressed, you're seeing Pollard more and more at the first team, And I thought maybe, and Dave you, you and I talked about this yesterday and you kind of had this

opinion too. It almost felt like at first they were like, well, yeah, let's just keep Tony you kind of in that that secondary role, and as time when they were like, huh, it might be pretty good. We might want to give him a little bit more and see or else we can use him. And I thought, maybe it it lets them know, you know, is this a situation where he's a guy that's a third down back. Maybe not. Maybe he's a guy that can take a series rather than

just down. I think, really what I'm saying, he's a lock to make this team, regardless of steaks here or not. And yeah, if the more he can prove, the more snaps he'll get. But a guy Derrius Jackson's not a lock. They went and got offered more as Chun. I think Chun's the guy from that group that's moving him more

into consideration of maybe making the team. Yeah, and everything you just said about Pollard is right, but he is so entrenched that he was really more part of the non contact first team or scrim practice as opposed to the scrimma. He would get hit. They left to young guys get after it. Uh, Mike Weber, really I thought

showed some stuff. He had a great touchdown run, he spun out of a dog pile and and beast mode and prompted the first this is the age we're living in, but the first public comments by Ezekiel Elliott since he started his holdout. You know, he retweeted our video of Mike's touchdown and sent three h steaming face emojis, which now all these lame sports writers are in a TIZZI trying to figure out what that means. It means he's proud of his Ohio State teammates. I don't see people.

I've heard so many people are like, Oh, he's mad because that's not him, or he's mad because they have another running back. No, that's not what that means. It means look at my guydown. Not a lot of not everybody understands emoji culture. As it turns out, it's okay, that's fine. Um, I didn't see it, so why would I talk about But so that was that was cool to see. But really, if you want me to be honest, my number one impression from yesterday is kicker a problem.

Oh my god, that's what I was gonna talk about, Kicker a problem because that is a big problem. Two minute drill Cowboys offense is down nineteen to seventeen. There's like a minute and change. Dak guides him down the field. It wasn't beautiful, but you know, throws it to Witton, he gets it to gallop on the other sideline, beautiful little slant to Randall Cobb who takes it. Probably would have been a touchdown in a real game, but in

this environment, he's down to it like the two. And Brett Maher comes on for the game winning thirty two yard field goal with three seconds left and shanks it way left. And not only that, but it was like a low kick. It was just ugly. And uh, you know, I'm I'm worried about the kicker position, if I'm being honest with you, because it's a trend now it's and he's he's missed kicks. He's had one perfect day Saturday, he went nine for nine. That was great, But every

other day he's missed at least one. And as we've seen with Brett Maher, it's not the forty eight yard or that he's missing out here, it's the thirty three, thirty five forty yard kicks like the guineas right. But when you say when you say it's a trend. In my opinion, that was a trend last year. It was, which was why it was so shocked. It's not any

better here. And that's my point. That's why it's somewhat shocking to me that they have they didn't bring in more competition for him this year during training camp than a guy that, let's be honest, is not gonna displace him. Yeah, And that that to me is the part that's really really you know, I've always defended the kicker because of other reasonings I don't know, But then yesterday, after getting a little taste of what is to come, I'm like, no, no, no,

I don't want any of that this year. I don't want to deal with that stress again, and especially in the day that matter. I mean, yesterday was the closest to like a real game, you know scenario, and yeah, he aft it up, put it bluntly as you do, heft it up. And that's not good, that's not and that when you talk about bringing in competition, it's mind blowing that they haven't really Like how why well, I will say that. Let me say that that I think

most kickers understand. You should understand that you are this is a competition. They don't need to see the guy next to you to know that there's somebody better than that. He doesn't have to get that. I understand what you're saying, but I would imagine the scouts over here have this list.

They know, Okay, this guy now, he's not out here kicking, and he probably needs to be because that would be better for both of them, right That would be My thought is more just to show him here's who you're competing against and create competition, because they do it at every other position on he knows, and I heard Will It Do an interview earlier this week where he was talking about he was like, our goal is to get as many good guys at every position as we can

because it ups the value of the competition. Not only are the younger guys competing against each other, they're pushing the older guys. And so in this instance, it's just having that guy beside because this guy deside here right now is not pushing him. I think Nick is right, like Brett Maher, he's been a professional kicker for a long time because I remember he was in the CFL for four or five years. He understands, like you're not

gonna last long in any league missing thirty two yards. True, but it's very different than knowing that versus actually having someone standing right next to you that's about to kick right after you. Yea. So the pressure of I like, honestly, I like putting kickers in pressure situations because that's what their whole job is, it's pressure. So the more you can put them in pressure situations and they learn how to kick through pressure, the better they're going to be.

It's something to keep an eye on. I bet you Casey Redfern's not going to kick much in these preseason games. And if if it's a shaky if it's a shaky set of games, then then we'll see what happens. Yeah, and you remember Brett Maher has been on that list, the list of here's ten guys available. I'm sure Maha has been on there two or three years ago as a guy he's in the CFL. He's kicking up there. And you know, yeah, Edmonton, I don't remember. I want

to Winnipeg Blue Bombers may know. Kick up there. You're probably pretty good. But you're right about it's the extra points, it's the thirty five yarders. It's the forty one yard ers. It's the ones, you know, fifty nine yards. Yeah, he can make it into the net, and that's great, and it'll be in the media guide as the all time sixty two yard field goal. That's great. But it's if it's set nineteen to seventeen and he missed a kick like that from the two. I mean yeah, I mean

thirty two yard field goal, that's yeah, that's not good. Yeah. Uh. Somebody on Twitter. I was tweeting about this yesterday and somebody responded to me and said the Maharati doesn't go below fifty and I laughed really hard. It was really good. Whoever sent me that that was inspired? That's extra way to go. All right, let's sorry. That's actually like a twenty one yard or isn't it if it was from the two yard line? Five? Well, extra points? Oh, because

extra points are pushed back. You're right, I'm sorry. So what yard line? If it was from the two, he was probably it was a thirty two yard kick, so what's that twenty two minus? So it was from the fifteen yard line. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Observation, yes, give me your observation. Okay, thank you. You know, I don't

feel good what they're doing at the red zone. Uh. I was expecting to see things better, and when I see the competition like there, there are times I feel good about the balance that is being created between the offense and the defense. I feel that although the defense has been able to step it up a little more than the offense, it's kind of pretty well balanced, which is essentially what you're looking for when you're competing out

here at training camp. But when they came down to the red zone, the things that they were doing, I mean to me that I don't see that much improvement or anything that better than what we saw last year. I don't know from you guys perspective, but what they were doing yesterday did not excite me at all. Was it the first play of red zone when they hit when he hit Tony in the end zone? Was that the first play? I know it was in the first period of red zone that they did. Definitely he hit him.

He hit Witten for a touchdown in the red zone. I'm sorry, Okay, yeah, yeah, there were a couple of plays, but for the most part, it wasn't that good. He kept missing and then um not just not just stack even the backup guys too. It's like they're having time to scramble and run around and not finding any guy. I mean, shout out to the defense, we're doing a great job for covering. But when he came down to it, it just wasn't enough to meet in the red zone area.

I actually asked Dak about that yesterday because he talked to us and I'm I was like, you know, here a training camp, you want to beat the defense, but like you could, it's a bad thing if you're beating them too much, right, Like you want to be able to count on them. You want them to help you during the season. So how do you kind of balance your frustration about not having success with what that might

mean about your defense? And he was like, yeah, it's you know, it's been a lot of give and take. I think his direct quote was like, you know, we haven't come up and we haven't come out and bullied them, but they damn sure haven't been bullying us either, which I think the defense is. If I had to give an edge to one side of the ball so far as camp, I would give it to the defense, which is naturally I think it most camps, the defense usually

starts a little ahead of the offense. But remember we have watched many training camps here where it was just embarrassing for the defense. Yeah, like they weren't very days, just doing whatever he wants to do, Witten being open all the time, all that good stuff. So I mean you can say the same for the defensive line. But I mean, the red zone is gonna work if you can run the football, So nothing, no play action to Pollard or anything like that. I mean it's hard. It's

hard to gauge in right now. When Zeke is back there, that'll change things. And I'm sure that they say, well, Crawford delob will change things as well. But it's not even just Zeke. It's Zeke. It's the fact that the quarterback legitimately can run. The defense has to pay attention to that. Out here. They don't really work because they can't tackle him anyway, right, So that isn't as big of a concern, I wouldn't think. And then you didn't have Cooper out here. I mean, yeah, Mark Cooper out

here yesterday. So I think when you think about all those things, I'm a little less concerned with what I saw. I was actually excited to see the touchdown to Witten, because that's one of the things we talked about that he could maybe provide for this team was a little extra help in the red zone. If they can figure that out. I think that does create a little bit more of an eye option for you in the red zone.

But your horses, the guys that are going to really get you to the end zone, weren't out there yesterday, not in the way that they'll be out there if they're back and healthy for the regular season. I get it. I mean, yeah, when you start plugging in those guys in there, obviously things are completely are going to change completely.

But I guess I just had more expectations at this point, you know, seeing what the things that Kellen Moore has been doing with the offense and getting creative and all that. I was just excited to see that yesterday. And I didn't get what I wanted just yet, So that was more of it. You know, I do think I agree with you for the record. Is it honestly just across the board, the offense like it's it's been a little

lack luster. They haven't been kicking butt, and again it's I'm trying to juggle how I feel about that is like, well, is this encouraging for the defense or should I feel like the offense doesn't have it together? But I've seen enough to give me optimism. Like offensively, yeah, yeah, Cedric Wilson took a reverse out in from twenty five yards yesterday. It was a beautiful little I think Jordan Chunn started off with it. I mean the defense was completely clueless.

It was a really pretty play. And you see things like that. You know that the throw from Dak to Randall Cobb that set up Maher's miss was gorgeous. So there's enough there to have me feeling optimistic, and I'm sort of trying to find my way to the middle, like, well, maybe they're just really evenly matched. Maybe this is just good for both sides. One of the things that stood out to me yesterday, my big observation that rides with that is a number of defensive turnovers. And that's been,

in my opinion, a theme throughout camp. This defense is getting a lot of turnovers relatively speaking, interceptions, forced fumbles your woods again yesterday, Yeah, And that to me, I think that's the area where I'm very excited that if that can translate for the defense into the season. That would be probably the biggest knock you had on them from last year. They were good in a lot of areas, getting the ball and giving it back to the offense

was not one of them. So if they can get that and become more consistently can do that, I think it's really a good thing for the team. How has it been in the past training camps. I don't remember. Yeah, I don't recall a time when I've seen this mik turnouts as seen this year. Now, maybe I'm just missing it, but it seems like this year, every day there are a few, Yeah, there are a few. Every day. It seems like their guys are knocking balls out and you

gotta fumble. There are guys that are intercepting the ball like and again, this is all being done and we'll talk about that when we get into the secondary. Without what I think is their best cornerback. Um, I think I think there's something very positive about what's going on to human. He doesn't, but maybe he would out here. Maybe maybe maybe he would out in this camp because they're they're getting their hands on balls and they're actually turning it over. So UM, I think it's a really

good thing for him. Right now, All right, let's um, you know what we're gonna do. We're gonna go ahead before we get to our final segment. We're gonna talk about the defensive backs. We're gonna go ahead and take our final break. We'll come back. I do want to talk about the cornerbacks and the safeties. As I say that at a cornerback, the best cornerback walks around the corner. But let's take great timing. Yeah, let's take a break. When we come back, get into it is a Dallas

Cowboys dot Com radio. While the player can look good on paper, it's when he's out on the field that you really find out what he's made of. That's why the Cowboys rely on more than just stats and scouting reports when building their team. When picking the tractor, it's why you should rely on more than just specs and features. You've got to take it out and put it to the test. The Cowboys did when they name John Deer their official tractor experience one for yourself. Visit my John

Deerdaler dot com slash football. It's time for tailgate with the Autobox Boys. Autterbox The makers are those crazy protective phone cases, so one and only. They're also wild about protecting parking lot parties from sad drinks. It's why they made elevation tumblers room around the crock pot as they're made from stainless steel with a copper lining to keep tempts hot or cold true. They even come in seven different sizes up to sixty four ounce the growler. I

like how aauterbox drinks. I mean thanks, and that's been tailgating with the autobox boys. Check out all the colors and sizes of their elevation humblers at atterbox dot com. Want to use what the pros use? How about the official men skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. Right now you can get the Jack Black Playmaker, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, or just ten

bucks with free shipping. The Playmaker includes four Jack Black skincare favorites, plus a full sized Intense Therapy lip bomb and a Cowboys can cooler. Go to get Jack Black dot com. Slash Cowboys and use the code word Cowboys the Jack Black Playmakers ten bucks free shipping. Star Sports Tours is the only official fan travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, offering exclusive game weekend travel packages with sideline access and photo ops with current players, alumni and cheerleaders.

That's not all, though, You'll get to talk xs and os with Senior Director of Player Personnel Will McClay and of course with yours truly me, Brian broad Us. You can trust the official fan travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, and with us you'll travel like a pro. Visit Cowboys travel dot com to book your travel package today. A man's stepson doesn't just protect him from life's elements, it projects an unstoppable and legendary spirit, just like the men

wearing silver and Navy on the field every Sunday. Since eighteen sixty five, Stetson Hats are American made with pride right here in Texas. They are still the official crown of all self prospecting Cowboys, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Find Stetson Hats in the Pro Shop or at Stetson dot Com. Today

Back to the Break Welcome Back. It is the final segment of The Break live from Ox Dark California Cows having the day off today, they would be back in practice tomorrow that I'll walk through tomorrow morning and men their normal afternoon practice at three thirty specific time. We're going to talk about defensive backs for this team, And as I said in the earlier part of the show, I believe this has been the best unit. If you were going to say who's been for me, who's been

the best unit throughout training camp? I think it's been the defensive backs, not only because of what they've done with Byron Jones out, but just because every day guys are making plays. And it's not even just your top line guys. You got your top line guys guys making plays, you got depth guys making plays. I just think this unit has been very, very solid. I want to get some opinions from you guys though, from the defensive backstandpoint,

what have you? What's your overall perspective on what you think they've been so far going coming into camp, based on what you thought of them coming into training camp. I honestly, I think we're seeing a lot of the you know, every offseason there's like the you know, everything is as rosy as it could be, right, Like this guy is gonna make the leap and this guy's gonna play better and understand more. And every year everybody's supposed

to get better. But that's sort of what it looks like out here with all these dbs, you know, going obviously we haven't seen Byron, but like going down the line. Xavier woods for my money, is having the best camp of anyone. Him and Malie Collins are like on a tear. He's got three or four interceptions. He's in the right place at the right time. It seems like he's reading

the field. Jeff Heath is doing Jeff Heath things. You know, he's got two two of his patented takeaways where it's just like, well, he was where he was supposed to be and the ball popped out and there he goes. So they both look fantastic, and then on and on down the line. Cheeto Woodsier just looks solid, like he's glued to these guys. He looks like he's taken a step in the right direction. The young guys to me have really impressed. Uh. Mike Jackson, you know, he's the

Rashard prototype. He's got these long arms. We feel good about him. He's out here showing it. He's had so many plays, especially on like short developing routes like comebacks and slants where he uses that length to disrupt the play. He's picked off two balls that way where he's just so long that he got in front of the receiver before the ball got there. Really impressive stuff. We didn't mention him when we were talking about the Blue White scrimmage.

But Donovan Wilson is another guy, which you know, the scouts told me when they drafted him, this is a dude who needs pads to excel, and it sure as heck looks that way. He forced to fumble on Reggie Davis yesterday. He's just he's a physical guy. He's gotten in several, um, what would you call him collisions with running backs where you know he's just a physical dude. He looks like he brings that to the table. I'm struggling to come up with a dB who hasn't really

done much to impress me. I guess Chris Westry. He's been obviously out for a decent portion of this. But other than that, I think most of these guys look really good. Sorry, I just kind of covered what else can you say? I was laughing because I was like, I'm gonna say, Chris Westley is the only guy you haven't mentioned. You know what I like though? Shoot, I forgot a maybe had the best single day of any dB just in terms of mad He made six plays

in one practice on Saturday. I was gonna say that of what I really like from this whole group is that they don't give up. Even after you think that the plays over, they just keep going, you know. And usually when you get to this point of training camp sometimes and you feel like you didn't play that play well, you just stop and just like ah, put your head down and keep walking off. These guys don't do that.

They just keep going. And how could they not, like when you got Chris Rashard out there yelling at you. So I love that that this whole group is just it just goes for it and keeps going. Even if they messed up, they just keep going. So here's a question for you, Nick. If Byron Jones were to miss games, what's your comfort level with the guys that are playing right now? One games, let's say two or three games.

Doesn't sound like the Giants have anybody that receiver. Um, if that's a game that he's gonna miss, I mean not saying that he is again just yeah, um, you know, not not great because again and through all the stuff that Dave said, and Dave and he's going off of what you see over here, which is all you can do.

I've just seen too many games in the preseason. We're gonna get to the game, and I just have this feeling that in the fourth quarter we're gonna have about four pass interference penalties or you know, give up some I mean, that's been an issue for this team. And so you think, wow, Almba's doing great, and Anthony Brown has done a good job, and Mike Jackson and then and then we're gonna get to a game and we're gonna be like, wow, some guy number their number number

eleven for them. Johnson whoever, you know it just had two catches for eighty five yards and a touchdown, and you're like, well, now we're back to the drawing board again. The other thing, too, is you see so much more in practice, Like you know, they did red zone one on ones right here, and every single receiver and every single dB got at least four reps, if not five

or six. So you know, like, oh, well, Jordan Lewis gave up a touchdown right there, but then he bounces back and breaks one up, you know, and you're so you're left with a favorable impression, whereas in the game that ain't. It ain't the same thing. If you give up the play or you might only get really one opportunity to make the play and if you don't do it, then sorry, that's it. So it's easier to make a favorable impression when you get fifteen opportunities per per practice.

So I know it's not going to be as as it looks out here, but again, all you can go off of is what you've seen, and they all look pretty damn good. I didn't even mention Jordan or Anthony Brown, and they've both been solid out here too. Yeah, let me ask you that question. And then since you bring up Anthony Brown, who's been the best of the of those guys, Cheeto, Anthony Brown, Jordan Lewis has been the best those three, probably, I would say probably Cheeto has

been the best. Again, we don't, you know, I'm not great enough a curve. I think he's the best. Jordan has been a guy that's maybe he's surprised people the most. But I think Jordan i mean, I think he's everywhere. He's all over the field. Everywhere you look, you see twenty seven pop up. Yeah, I would agree with that. Um,

I think Cheeto, Yeah, Cheeto might be the best. But I would also say Cheeto gets his hands on the least amount of footballs, which is first of all, that's what pops off at you when you're when you're watching, And that's also you know, it's how you make Pro Bowls and get your name and noticed in league circles and stuff like that too. Anthony Brown. I don't know if he'll ever go to a Pro Bowl or ever be like in the upper echelon of NFL corners, but like he's just gonna play for a while and just

have a really nice career. Like he doesn't get enough credit for being a pretty good football player. Ye have opinion on that one? Best of those three, I mean, it's not much different than that. I think the most solid one has been a Cheeto out of the whole group. And my guy I love um Jordan Lewis. And like I said, every time I look, he's he's everywhere. I'm like, what is happening? How can he keep popping out of everywhere?

Jordan Lewis to me, is like, uh, Dorn's armstrong and that okay, Like he's he's covering you know these guys pretty well. He's covering Reggie Davis, well, he's covering John Vay Johnson well, like he needs to go up against a Mari, go up against Cobb and yeah, and gallop and and nothing. He doesn't. I think he gets to face some of that. But but I think that where that's we're in the same with Dorn's armstrong. Like you know, when he did that against Tyran, It's like, Okay, now

he's really making a jumper. I'll tell you this, I don't want Byron to miss games, and I won't feel good about it if he does. But the first three weeks of opponents, you couldn't ask for a more favorable matchup with wide receivers. I mean, Sterling Shepherd's a good player. Um, DeVante Parker. It's Giants Washington and Dolphins DeVante Parkers all right, when he's healthy. The Redskins have doxin and uh, Paul Richardson like a question waterback. Yeah. I just they love

making us play back to back, same schedule. We had a couple of years ago it was Giants at Washington sixteen. Yeah, they we They've opened with two straight East opponents like three of the last four years. I don't know why, but they like doing that. That's the year. How long do you see it is? That's the game of the year. That one right there, name of the year is like Nick is obsessed with the week week two, Like are you gonna be two and o or one and one?

And that's like and I also believe I wouldn't. I wouldn't I just say that, but I do think that that I think the Redskins is that's gonna be a game because you're gonna have to be battling with the Eagles. What do you do against the red Skins? What do you do in your division games? Firstly, a road win? You lost that one before that game. I wouldn't say that if it was just Miami at home or whatever, but this year particularly, I think that is a huge game.

All right, So which of the young guys thinks I have a question? But how long do you think it's gonna take Barron Jones to get back into like game to a shape because if it doesn't practice just walk past us. He looks fine. He's okay, he's just a yeah, he can walk around. Obviously, he's in pretty good shape. He is. He looks good. He's not gonna he's not play. It's very different getting in there and playing corn. I suspect he'll be practicing by the time the Cowboys get

back to the Star. They'll have two weeks before the season begins. That's kind of in my mind when I'm thinking, I would hope and expect to see him back in practice, give himself two weeks of practice. Again, he probably won't play any of the other those preseason games, but I think he could. He could hopefully start getting in at

death point and he's ready for Week one. Yeah, that's kind of the timetable I'm thinking about for him and take, like, as long as they can practice at some point when we're back at the Star, then I think it'll give him enough time as veterans, actually give him enough time to be ready to play when Week one starts. They don't need a preseason game to be ready to play. I tend to agree. Yeah, all right, So, so, which of the younger guys at cornerback has been more impressive,

Mike Jackson or Donova Donova Alumba. That's a good one. Um. I mean Alumba had arguably the best day for any single player. I mean he broke up, He broke up everything they threw his way on one on ones. He picked off two passes in the same team period. Jackson's just been surprised consistent for a rookie though in my opinion, like he kind of you know, and he has one or two every days. Say, um, and you know he's

a draft pick. I know, you know they always say it's not about how you got here, But that's a lie, it is, um, So I lean. I lean towards Jackson even though a long I mean that's not a knock on a LUMBI. I think he's been pretty solid out here. In six corners make the team, I don't know they've done it. That was actually gonna be. My next question is how many make it and who are there? Because again you're not talking about it, guys as we're going down this list. It was a pretty decent number of

cornerbacks that are pretty good. Now, if you're gonna go six, you fuck you kind of got your guys. But if you're gonna go five, you gotta make a pretty interesting decision, you know, And you have to make a decision too for next year, which I know that sounds weird, but you do. But you look at the fact that Byron Jones is, you know, this is the last year his deal, will see if he gets a new one. I don't think they're in a real hurry to get anything done there.

You also got the last year for Anthony Brown. Jordan Lewis will be in a situation where they could maybe do something with him next year. I mean, no, I think Mike Jackson is going to make this team because he's on a four year affordable contract. He's making that

as long as he is passable. But I think I don't know if you can if you really like a lumba, I don't know if if you can get rid of that knowing that you might be in a situation next year where you need two or three more corners and you just let this guy go because he wasn't going to make an impact on this team, but he could.

You know, they really they weirded me out last year because they only kept nine dbs, and I think that's the first time they've done that in the time that I've been here that it's you can usually count on ten, whether it's six corners and four safeties or five and five tight end. They've well maybe, but but will they I mean will they still? Will they go back up to ten dbs? I mean you got you got depth everywhere on the d line. We're talking about seven linebackers.

Will they keep three quarterbacks? I think you're right, but I'm curious. Mike White hasn't done anything where you have to keep them. Mike White hadn't done anything where where the teams are going to be like, oh, I'm taking him. I don't think I think he Do you think Rush is the guy you keep over Mike White? Yeah, he's

been better to this point. Yeah, he's been good to Rush has come on in the last two or three days and looked at I don't think anyone at cutdown day is gonna be like, oh, I gotta save a spot here, I'm gonna put Mike White on my team. I think he's practice squad. I think he makes it back to your practice squad. Again. That's before four games. All it takes is one sixty five yard throw on a rope for a touchdown. Devin Smith and here and then both of them are Okay, we're back here on

the break. Devin Smith is your top three receiver. Can't wait, We're gonna get back from San Francilia. Always everything, because I'll ask you guys this question. It's a bigger picture question. Do you see a scenario where Byron I shouldn't even say like that. Do you think it's it's a it's going it's likely to happen that Byron Jones gets a new deal with this team, knowing that they already have to sign those other three Big three, They got other

guys like Jalen Smith coming down the pike. Do you think that this is a situation where if he has a great year, he outprices himself to some degree, and if he has an not so good year, than the Cowboys may not necessarily want to do a deal. I don't want to do this to my guy, Byron, one of the nicest dudes on the team, but he is. He is screaming franchise tag to me, like that's what I think, and that's why I think I would not

be against it. That's why it's important for them to get these other deals done, because you can't be franchising dak and while while you got Byron to worry about, I don't want to just let him walk. But I'm not convinced. He's obviously the last priority, Like nobody even talks about the poor guy, and he's got I mean, he deals up next year, right, yeah, and to his credit, Like I mean, he could be doing the same thing. He can be like screw you guys, pay me, and

he's not. So he's on the fifth year of his deal though, which I mean he's like Amari Cooper. He's making much more than he was in the years prior to that. But I'm not convinced. I want to see him do it again before I give him a long term deal. Plus you know variety, and you know the number of other deals you gotta sign, So me personally, I want to see those other three deals done so that you have the option to franchise him if you

want to. I would have I would have thought that, um, if he if he was up this year, I would have thought he would have been a better candidate for the franchise tech because he's only done it for like one year. But I think if he does it again this year, I think it's very similar to DeMarcus Lawrence. You know, with the one year, I don't know if he's done enough. Let's franchise him. Let's see, and then he performs again, and now you know you gotta sign him.

So I think if he actually goes out and has a good year or better year, um makes a few more turnovers, still has still is a Pro Bowl level type guy, I think I think that's enough to say let's but yeah, you want to sign him. My question more is do you have the funds to sign himcause you've you've gotta sign those three got t How do you know I would bet the amount of money you're gonna sign those three. But then you got Tank that's making big money. You got three guys on your offensive

line that are making big money. I mean, you got Jalen coming up. I mean, I think they're just so many you can only go you know, paying guys like up there in the top five in the league at their position, only so many times probably go off the books though, right, yeah, I mean you're going to go ahead. I mean, I don't know if Dyrone Crawford will be there for that money. I don't know if what Lyell's situation will be honestly, I think Lyle and Byron are

kind of in the same position. I think if they have really great years, they might price themselves out of being with the Cowboys. And they have a bad year, then it's kind of like, well, do the Cowboys really want to sign them? Man? I wish when Governor was on the field, Yeah, McGovern could really answer some questions for you. It would have been really good because then that that pushes a lot of things around. You got now Connor Williams could maybe go out there, and so

it's it's an interesting debate. You know, everything about modern football says you should value the cornerback right and also much like running back, like linebacker just seems like a dying breed. You know, Patrick Willis was amazing for five six years and then all of a sudden he was too beat up to play anymore. Like at your peak, you might get three to five years of elite play

out of a linebacker. But it's the same thing with linebacker from a standpoint too, if you get a special one worth paying, That's where you got to find out this year, is Jalen special? Like that? Jalen and Layton both much like much like my guy, Dion Jones, Like, I think you're seeing a new breed of linebacker where if you can get side to side effortlessly and play a role in stopping how offenses are trying to spread

you out, you become valuable. Again, You're not you're not plugging gaps the way that like Brian Urlocker used to do. But if you can erase, if you can turn a thirty yard gain into a two yard game because you're so damn fast to get out to the edge, that's really valuable. We've seen Layton and Jalen do it. And by the way, in the case of Jalen, if you can blitz well, because they're giving him opportunities to blitz.

If he can blitz well, if he can put up a season where he does what he already does from a standpoint and making the tackles, but then throws in another four to six sacks, now you're really talking about something that can make him a very special linebacker that makes it worthwhile to pay him, Which is why I feel kind of crazy, like if you you know, and we'll have this whole season to watch it play out, But like if I had to pick right now, I think I'd rather keep my powder dry for Jalen Smith

then try to sign Byron Jones to some sort of eighty million dollars deal. That's the part that makes this really really interesting. They've got so many contracts that at some point you have to make some choices, some hard choices. So are we not We're not buying into any of the kind of reports that are floating around that, you know,

I said. Charles Robinson from Yahoo, who typically has pretty good information, was saying, not saying it will happen, but a worst case scenario would be you signed Cooper, you let Zeke figure himself out and franchise Dak. If you don't get something done by the start of this season, yeah,

I mean you certainly hold in the franchise tech. I think for Dak if you don't get a deal done, because that's the one to me to make the most sense, because Dak is a guy still want to see a little more before I know kind of what I'm willing to pay him. I'm even of the opinion like, let him play this season. I don't think the number changes

drastically even if he had a really great year. I don't I think the number is gonna be the number and but I think you can even put him on a franchise tag, and I'd even be willing to pay him the franchise and number four a quarterback for a year. But the point is that's the guy that you probably

have more questions about than a Mario or Zeke. Well, so that's what you really want to hold that tag, I would think, which is why I'd rather get it done so I can use the tag on somebody else because I want to start the clock ticking, and you want to start ticking on Zeke, which is fair, but I want to start a ticking on Dak so in a worst case scenario, you can get out of that situation sooner rather than later. All right, let's go ahead and flip over to the safety position. We got have

five minutes left. I want to hit this real quick. Are you guys more comfortable with safety now than you were at this time last year? Yeah? Why? Because Xavier Woods is Xavier Xavier Woods. He pronounces it that way. He's out here kicking ass, just taking names, reading the field, hauling ass across one side of the field and picking off a ball that he was nowhere near being in the right place at the right time, that type of stuff. Uh, and and he wasn't doing that this time last year.

To be fit known, not at all. And to be fair, I mean, Byron Jones did a lot of that stuff a few years ago too, and it didn't translate. So and they brought in a veteran guy to push him and nobody's even mentioned mentioning him. That's I didn't think. I think he plays on third team now. George Iloca. Yes, I did a radio hit on Saturday and somebody was like, yeah, they were like, what's the how's that competition going at safety with George Iloca and Donovan Wilson fighting the So

I was like, what competition are you talking about? Uh? This is this is locked in. Jeff Heath and Xavier Woods are the guys and honestly, through eight practices they look pretty good. Yeah. So it's the third best safety on this team right now. That is where it gets interesting because you got Cavon, you got the new kid Wilson, and you have George Iloca. Also, a guy that the team really loves that that we kind of forget about is definitely darry and Thompson, who made a nice play

in the red zone the other day. Um, that's hard to say. I mean, Cavan's your special team's ace and your right kind of guy. Ilocas a seven year veteran Wilson, like I said, Wilson's looked good when he's had a chance to hit people. And Thompson it seems like the team likes him. I don't know what to do with that. And that goes back to how many of you keeping four or five? I mean, because you got to you gotta find a guy that can play safety if one

of those guys gets banged up. And I say that, you know, I know what they what they how they think about Cavon Frasier, But I don't think they really want to put him out there and play a lot of defense. I think his value with special teams, so that sounds good, But at some point, who who's playing safety for you? Which it's not what he came here to do. But George Iloka could be that guy. And

I mean he's been running with the threes. He's basically been a non factor out here, but as we go he might be the guy they feel the most comfortable with. Or Thompson. That's a fair one. Too. Is it somewhat alarming though, to say that he's a veteran, He's a guy has some excuse, lots of experience, and playing against the third team, he's not been noticeable. Well, he's playing with the third team, probably because they feel like they kind of have a good idea of what he can do,

but they want to see what. No, and I get that what I'm saying, No, it's not like that. I'm saying, even playing against third team competition, he's not really flashing out here? Does that concern you? Does that alarm you about where he is at this point of his career? If you forget about him, right, it's like, who's this guy? Let's move on? Yeah, Yeah, it doesn't concern me because I'm just like, oh, this guy is a prime candidate

to be a veteran cut. But I will if I'm trying to defend George at LOCA, I would say that's not his game. This isn't his game, Like he's another he's put the pads on as they want him to be a box safety, like they want him down there in the muck, and he's he's had some nice plays down by the line of scrimmage. No no interceptions or anything like that. But he's yeah, I'm not judging him off of these sort of practices. So they do need a backup safety. You can't just sit here and say, well,

you know, special teams here are special teams there. I mean, he got have somebody because when Cavon Frasier came in the game for a few snaps in Seattle Week three last year, I think Tyler Lockett was in the end zone in like five seconds for a touchdown. And so I'm just saying it's a noticeable different. I love Cavon, we all do, but I don't think that's his strong stude is it's go out there and play defense. I don't know what to do with that position after the

starting two. I have no idea, Like it's just something we're gonna have to see that they're going to be healthy, see how they work in the games, and maybe you know Dondran Wilson, the light keeps coming on for him, and like you said, when you know he's a physical player and he'll make plays in the games, all right. He reminds me of of a young Cavon Frasier actually, So we appreciate you guys, join us. We were back tomorrow our normal time ten am Pacific time. It's noon

for you guys back in DALLASOO. Then for Nick, even Dave Hellman, Amigarcia, I'm Derek Eagleton. This has been the Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Even Mo