Cowboys Break: Quinn vs. D-Law?

We're alive from the s WBC Mortgage Studios and the Star got Nick with me. Dave Brian's joining us again today. Amber's out again this week. She'll be back with us next week. But we've got a lot to talk about today. Cowboys make a big move yesterday, and we're going to get the opinions of this illustrious group of young men. Tell us all about why this is a good or maybe bad I don't know move for the Cowboys. I don't think anybody. All right, let's start. Let's talk about

Robert Win. Yesterday, Cowboys complete the trade from Miami. I guess first, Nickola the groundwork for us on the deal. What did the Cowboys give up and what happened from the standpoint of the contract a bag of chips and they got a really good pass rusher Chetos. Now, no, they got a Cheeto. No. I mean they gave up six pound pick in twenty twenty, so nothing this year,

and then they're not gonna pay. They restructured his deal, which was a one year eleven I mean, he had one year left for about eleven and a half million. They're restructuring that. It's not going to be that, but they're going to get a player that hasn't ever had a season less than four and a half sacks in his career. He's had a nineteen that was a few years ago. But he's a guy that I think instantly it comes in as better. He's better than Taco Charlton

and Dorian's Armstrong probably combined. He can come in and offset what they're doing with whenever they get DeMarcus in here. I think they have really two good pass rushers. So it's a move that they typically don't make, and I think it's an aggressive of all in type of move. See I disagree with that last I loved everything you

just said. I disagree that's an all end type of move, which is why I love it so much, because it's just proof of the point that you can be aggressive in adding talent to your team without giving away the bank A six round. I mean they got Robert Quinn for Darius Jackson. Well, I don't mean or Rico Gay, I mean all in. Like. I don't mean all in like this is like make or break for the for the franchise like this year, but I mean for this season that they're trying to go in. I just think

of all in. I mean, pushing your chips to the middle of the table is a big risk. There's no risk that's an all in. I'm arguing semantics with you. I get that. But they're all in on the season, is really what I mean. Okay, they're all in on this year to go make this year the year. I just I think that's what I'm I've been I've been begging for this team to do this type of stuff for years. I mean, if you've listened to me since I started coming on this show regularly, I say it

all the time. I don't know how many times I've brought up the Journegan trade that the Eagles made, or the Jgi trade that the Eagles make. And that's what's all about, is adding good, proven talent to your team without taking on a lot of risk. And there's like no risk at this at all. Um the I think that it might not be finalized, but the word on the street is that they're gonna pay him like eight million, with incentives to bump it to ten if he hits

certain parameters like seven, eight sacks or more. So you're getting him for a bargain. You didn't give up anything for him. I mean they don't even They don't even have a first round pick or a six round pick. Excuse me. They gave up a six round pick for ben A bin Wickery a couple of years ago. He was their sixth thing against Bena. No nothing against him, but he didn't he didn't make an impact on this team. And now you've got a starting right end who is

capable of getting to double digit sacks for that. Yeah, it's a fantastic move. Yeah, they got a player that's got a similar skill set to the player you're trying to sign for twenty three million dollars. That's what they got and so he's not going to play the run as well. But what he's going to give you is the pass rush stuff. He's going to give you, the the the edge, he's going to give you the we always talk about in scouting world, the tools, the tool belt.

He has a wide tool belt of the things that he can do. This is not the one trick pony that everybody likes to talk about as far as oh what can he do? When you watch this guy play, you have to account for him. I mean the Green Bay Packers in the game I watched yesterday, they have got an all Pro left tackle in David Bakhtiari, and they still gave him help to that side with Quinn. That just shows you the respect that they have for

Robert Quinn as a rusher. So those types of things I think, you know, I like what Nick said, I like exactly what David said. You know, this is a

move that I think it really protects themselves. You know, and we've been talking about on the various shows that you know, they couldn't go into the season if something were to happen where they don't get Lawrence done or they they say, you know what, he's going to have the surgery, but he's not going to play to October you know, this does not leave them without a pass rusher, and I think that's the most important thing. Normally I would ask when we talk about trade or signings, is

it worth it for what you give up? In this instance, I think we all agree that the Cowboys got a heck of a deal. So the question really changes to how would the Cowboys able to get such a favorable deal for a player like this. Is this a situation where maybe there's some injury issues or concerns. Maybe he in the opinion of maybe some other teams, he's not as good as he once was. Why are the Cowboys able to get him for relatively nothing. Well, that's that's

part of it. I mean, he's not as good as he once was. I mean, I'm sure that that's part of the situation. He's not probably gonna get nineteen sacks. But I also don't think that he was the fit for what the Dolphins wanted and then they were gonna cut him. So when you think about it, like you're going to cut him, you know, then you'll take whatever you know, because the other teams are saying, we're not gonna give anything because once you cut him, if we

want and we can go get him exactly. It's kind of like when you're in a guade, shall you know you're putting that stuff out there, you're gonna throw it away or whatever. So even though it doesn't matter what you paid for it or how good it was, at one point it's either going to be the trash or whatever. He'll take whatever. There's always a reason why the pro scouts followed teams with new head coaches and new general managers because they will always move on from players that

weren't part of what they brought in. And so Nick's right about the scheme fit. It's been a couple of different times he's had to deal with scheme fit. It happened to him in LA. They moved him on. He had some production. You know, I think this to me, I don't see the I think that to me that he's capable of getting double digit sacks Again, is he going to get nineteen sacks? No? Probably not. But if you watch him play, and I'll tell you what he's got.

Cameron Wake on the other side, playing with him and Cameron Wake had a hell of a time, I mean not health. He did a great job of getting to the quarterback because of what was going on at the right defensive end spot. So you know, the Marcus Lords if if he were to sign, he's going to get the benefit of a guy that people again I could say, still have to account for the way he's going to rush.

But the really the bottom line, new general manager, new coaching staff, they're always going to move on from that. I don't know enough about the Dolphins to know, you know, I don't know if they're going full Cleveland where they're committing to winning, you're trying to get a quarterback next year. It sounds like they're trying to completely rebuild their entire thing. And they brought in a new coach. He's going to play a multiple front. They're free and up cap space

left and right. They let Tannehill go that like there's nothing in Miami except for like Kenyan Drake and Xavi and Howard. Those are like the only two names I can come up with. And so you know, they look like a team that's planning on losing a lot so they can rebuild. Like they're freeing up a ton of

cap space. They're trying to acquire draft picks. That's what so get a pick to help you rebuild your team shed some salary or put a twenty nine year old defensive end at rush linebacker in a three four scheme and have them get three and a half sacks and half to pay him twelve million, so you get what you can for him. Okay, see teams do that all the time. All that being said, does this change the

negotiations with Tank Lawrence at this point? Now that the Cowboys have a capable best pass rusher, I guess, for lack of a better way to put it, they have a guy now in the building that they feel like can be their leading pass rusher. Does that change how they negotiate with ten Lawrence? I think it helps them mentally going in that they have a legitimate pass rusher. I think that helps them. But I think the front

office will be really patient on this one. I mean, they talk about wanting to get things done and all that, but the front office traditionally can wait this out the ones. I feel bad for the coaches and for his teammates because they're the guys that you know, there's seasons on the line. You know, the coaches will tell you like, hey, we don't have security. Now. Front office they'll say, you know what, the great thing about this front office is

they're not going anywhere. You know, they can wait this thing out. And that's and I think that's really one of the things that you know, is so unique about this organization is that they can afford to say, Okay, we'll make the deal with how we want to make this deal. And I know it's frustrating to ends out there, it's frustrated to put but yeah, they've got coaches they have to think about and players they have to think about. But you know, that doesn't doesn't seem to bother me.

I don't think they're I don't think the strategy changes at all. I think they're at one on one with this agent and they're going to try and figure this thing out the best they can. If it doesn't work well, at least they've got something that they know they can they can use at least for this year. I have a hard time believe in they would this would change

a whole lot, because they're already playing hardball. Like if you believe the details that are coming out like this is already these two sides are already pretty dug in. Stephen Jones said that they're at an impass. The other day. So they're already it's things already kind of tense, I guess. So I don't know what adding Robert Quinn does to change that. I mean, their heels are already dug in. Yeah, I don't know what the hold up is. I mean,

I've seen reports. I don't believe them, but I see the reports of you know that they're a little bit off here on the money, you know, per year and all that. I don't really believe that that would be the case. I can't imagine that you would be off a couple million dollars in per year. It sounds like from what I've heard it again, this is all speculation. From what I've heard, it sounds like it may be the guarantee that maybe it's got to be the guarantee,

no question, you know, it's difference in the guarantees. It's about that you could do anything you want with the with the per year, you can make it however you want. So it's got to be that. And UM, you know, this is a tough situation. I'm you know, I think the injuries U the fact that he needs um, you know, shoulder surgery. Um, you know, to me, I think DeMarcus needs to needs to get the surgery done. Um. But that's just my opinion, and I think he's he's he's

trying to leverage this thing. Um. I think he should go ahead and get the surgery. For everything that he's been about all year, being about the team and all that that they've given him a franchise tag to be twenty million. Everything he said last year was I get seventeen million. How great is that they're giving him twenty that they're still committing to him to play. He should do everything he can to be ready to play. I

think he needs the surgery. Would that I disagree? No? No, Would that be a show of good faith on his part if he has the surgery done and all of a sudden it's like, okay, now you're going to get the surgery done. Okay, we're going to start this. We're in good faith, we're gonna try and get this thing done for you. Yeah. So I think that's I think Nick is definitely onto something there, because if this thing goes all the way to July fifteenth, there's a side

of me that would move on from him. There is I would move on. What are these again, Let's let's figure that out, dude, let's just say July fifteenth. If he gets to be July fifteenth or fourteenth and he has not had the surgery, I don't know if I'm necessarily willing to commit twenty million dollars to him for playing ten games. So you can send the tag. Send the tag. Well, if it gets to July fifteenth at three pm with no deal, then you can't negotiate anymore. Right,

and you were sending the tag. You can send the tag. Then what happens that he's free free now, And now he's really screwed himself because a he hasn't had the surgery done, and b it's like who's got money to pay him now? They could say, hey, it could be just like Ziggyanza, Hey, come back to a submit October once you had the surgery done. That's part of me applauds him in his camp for trying to find a

way to get leverage because they don't have it. Well there, Like I said, I applaud them for looking for because you're in a situation where you don't have a lot. So you have this card and you're trying to play it in your favor. The problem is it's gonna backfire because if you get to a point where now you're missing games, why are the Cowboys going to pay you what you want to not be available? And I mean Jerry Jones said it playing his day on Monday. I

talked to him personally. He was like, what, you know, the big the first year of any big deal is very important, and why would we pay top dollar for a first year that's not going to be sixteen games

of good health. So you're hurting yourself. If they send the tag and you're damaged goods, You're not going to get what you want on the open market, right, probably going to turn a lot of teams off with the Well you're like, well, yeah, you purposely held off a surgery to get you know, to try to play leverage, like why would we why would we want you? Very similar to a Levy and Bell situation. So I get aggravated when people call him selfish or expect him to

take a penny less than what he's worth. Yeah, it's absolutely business, But I don't think he's a jerk. I think he's playing himself in the long run, like like I said, admirable to try to find a way to get leverage. But I don't think it's gonna work. I think it's only going to hurt you in the long run. This goes back to the original question that I asked about this, in that how this deal with Robert Quinn

effects Tanking. In my opinion, before this deal was made, before they made this trade, I felt like Tank had

a lot of leverage. I thought he created a lot of leverage for himself with the surgery because I thought that it does create a scenario where it's like, okay, Cowboys, well, if you want to play chicken on this thing, you could be facing us entering a season without your top two pass rushers, because then Tank would be out having surgery and Gregory, you don't know what's going to happen with him right now when you make this move, he

doesn't have that kind of leverage anymore. And so this move, to me, changed everything about the negotiations because now the Cowboys, in my opinion, even if you think that the Cowboys still had the majority of leverage, there was some leverage on Tank side. I think on this instance, going back to how you talked about it, Brian, I think he really has lost all leveragehip to guards to the surgery because I don't think he wants to be I wouldn't

think maybe he does. I wouldn't think he would want to be a free agent on July fifteenth, because Levich, you said, because the money's dried up at that point, and because people are not gonna have to pay him a big salary for a guy that's gonna miss half of that first Yeah, he's gonna have to. They would be ten games to prove that you're worth twenty three million dollars. And I don't I don't think that's I don't think that's a hard sell. That's a very hard sell.

We kicked this around the office yesterday, like does he have to get the surgery? I mean, he played with this injury for most of last year, didn't he? So he might not be as effective. But yeah, but if he could have left to just not do it at all, right way until the twenty twenty Yeah, but you're not going to pay him, Yeah, probably not pay The Cowboys are gonna make him their better. He's the best offer he's going to get us from the Dallas Cowboys. He

really that's that's really the best he can do. In my opinion, I will say this, and Brian, you've watched the tape. Tell me if I'm wrong, But I'm nowhere near as excited about Robert Quinn if DeMarcus Lawrence isn't part of this, like he's not pushing for double digit sacks without an all pro on the other side of no,

I'll disagree with you. You think you think I'm okay, Absolutely I'll disagree because I think I think scheme wise, there's things that they can do, especially with the with the inside players here that they have, There's things that they could set him up the way he can play

on the move. You know, I'm not saying, you know, nineteen sacks, no, but but yeah, ten eleven, twelve, absolutely, But I will say this, I'm way more excited about that if I have Tank Lawrence on the other there's no quote out about it, you know, but he might even help Tank get more sacks. Right again, I talk, I talk about what was going on on the on the other side. I mean, David Baktier, who I think is a really good tackle for the Packers, is standing there with help with a back and a tight into

his side. But that's that's kind of my point is if if Robert Quinn's getting doubled, then Tank is but still but still having six and a half sacks. But oh but Quinn still having still with my point is concerned about him still having sacks. If you double, if you double Quinn, then DeMarcus Lawrence is going to eat. And if you don't have DeMarcus Lawrence, I'm sorry, I don't trust Tyrone Crawford and Taco Charlton to take advantage.

But what's what's the difference Last year you had defensive was top five with the guy only had eight sacks? You had one once one of those does last try to better than that? You had one of those does last year? And Lawrence like and he was still he saw a ton of double teams, right, and he still was able to get some production. So is my question would be as Quinn as good as Tanks? So if he is similar least at the very least, you're gonna

have what you had last year, right, which was not bad? Yeah, similar traits maybe. Well we also had Randy Gregory last year who like wasn't amazing but produced. I mean he had six sacks. He got pressure on the quarterback, Like, who's doing that opposite Quinn? For you because Gregory you can't count on him being part of it. So again you're looking at Taco Tyrone and maybe Dorin's Armstrong, which like, hey, I mean Taco Charles the first round pick. Maybe this

is his year. But I don't want to bank on that the defense is worse if Tank's not on it. Hell, yeah, I do. Yes, Am I crazy? I agree with you. If Robert Quinn's on this defense and Tank is not, they're worse. Yeah, I would say probably. So. The only thing that I that I kind of I'm a little cautious about is I think Grandy Gregory. I think Grandy Gregory played well for what the expectations were coming back

from being out as long as he did. I think if you put him in the context of just was it a great defensive was it a great defensive endcy, I don't know, and I don't think. I don't think that what he did last year couldn't be replicated by one of those other guys or a combination of those other guys if you've got a premier pass rusher on the other end. So I don't know that I'm necessarily feeling like you're worse. I do think you can get appreciably better. I just don't know if you're worse. But

you can't count on anybody, Like that's the thing. You can't count on tackle, you can't count on Can you count on Gregory? No? But that's my point. So is it Is it better than you were last year? I think you're about where you were last year? I think are you talking about with the Marcus Lawrence on the team. I'm saying if you take DeMarcus and you just think of it as I'm replacing DeMarcus with Robert Quinn, I think I think you're right where you were. Oh my god,

I think you're crazy. I think you're nuts. Robert Quinn hasn't been in a Pro Bowl in five years, f YI. Like, I'm very excited about him joining this team. If Tank is on it, I think you're taking a step back. Okay, so what did he have? The complimentary pieces? That is? Brian was just talking about the defensive tackles you had on this team last year? Did Robert Quinn have that? In Miami? Are the defensive tackles on this team pro Bowlers? Like? What I mean? No? But they but they played a

role in the don't think they helped Lawrence. They had a good pass last year that wasn't just DeMarcus. I know DeMarcus had a lot to do with it, but they had guys that were getting pressure. I think we are drastically understood saying if isn't on this team and you plug in Robert Quinn, you're saying that the defense is the same, I think it's the same. I think you're crazy. We need to get on point counterpoint. Seriously, I'm getting mad, like I'm like fired up. That big

a deal. But I mean, I think DeMarcus Lawrence is one of the five best edge rushers in the NFL. You're trying to about a guy that got franchised and the guy that that's getting a conditional sixth round pick in twenty twenty. Yeah, but that you can't you can't judge you based on that. How many times do we see how many times career point to this point? What is left? Oakland Like, that's not a judge of this. One guy plays right and the other guy plays left

in my right. But de Marcus l you hate that better? No, no, but I'm just asking you. I don't Marcus Marcus would be fine on the right he's a better run player. He's a better player, better run player, a better player right now, he's a better pass rusher. Yeah, I mean we're talking about where he is in his career. Yes, how can you say that that's not a big hill of Well, one team's given an all sixth round picked.

That's that's irrelevant when you just finished saying you guys just finished saying that the reason he went for a sixth round pick is because there's a scheme change. You said, because the coaches changed and they feel like for the money, it's not worth it in a scheme where he doesn't and for the for the what they're expecting him to be in that scheme exactly. There's other four three teams out there that weren't given. I'm just saying, I think

this is silly to compare him to d law. If Robert don't have to, they're both gonna be here if both go. If Robert Quinn was where he like, if he was still on that level, it wouldn't matter. They wouldn't have had to dump him. They would have gotten way more for him. Just like the Raiders think you pick up right now, you put a pick up to Marcus Lawrence and you put him in a three four, he's gonna be as effective as he was last year

in a four three. No, but a three four team would give more than the Cowboys just gave for Robert Quinn played in a four three last year. Let's not act like he didn't play. Robert Quinn played in a four three last year. Yeah, he did. He played. The Dolphins are switching now, but he played last year and he was rice and a half. And if the eight and ten and a half ten and a half, Yeah, and if they were staying in a four to three, maybe they wouldn't be willing to give him up. That's

the point. It's a situation like that's the reason why LA let him go is because they don't think he can play in the three four. Yeah. I think we're just dragging to Marcus Lawrence's name through the mud right now. It's not and this is not honestly, this is not against Marcus Lawrence. And I've been one of the biggest

proponents of the fact. I want them to get this deal done because I feel like the step that you made last year, don't make that be in vain, but not getting better like that doesn't mean I don't think they will be the same. That means I think you have an opportunity to be appreciably better. Go be appreciably better. I think they will be significantly worse. If arguably the best run stopping defensive end in the league and a top tier pass rushing defensive in the league is not

on this team, they will be worse. They will not be as good. Yeah. I don't think it's a good to replace him. And this is your twenty three million dollars player in your eyes? No, he's not twenty three million? Okay, what is it? What is what is he? He's twenty? What is he? He's twenty because you franchised him. So he's definitely twenty because you franchised him. That's what I feel like. Hey, you guys want to pay him? Is one of the top pass rushers and defensive ends in

the league. Yeah, yeah, you sound like you both are ye twenty on them to give him six sixty guarantee? No, no no, no, wait, twenty three five is the number you in? We in let's do it sixty guarantee. Screw it. Oh it's more than that. You just say it's screw it because you don't. It's not my money, That's what I'm saying. It's nick is he had twenty three and a half million dollar year player for five years, not twenty three. I'm now, are you arguing so hard about

this thing? Well, I mean you're comparing them to Robert Quinn, who they just got far back of chips. I mean, I'm just saying the saying that that he You can't just say take Quinn for the law if you have doubt he's not the best pass rusher in the league. He's not. But that's been my whole he's not. He's not. But guess what that's say you to Robert quarterback the same thing, and he's gonna even in the top half

of the league, and he's gonna get money. That is That's the game you play with the market, especially when you tag a guy. I think the Cowboys are thinking he's not a twenty three and a half million dollar player, literally not, because they would have paid him by now if that was the case, they would have just done it. If they were like, well, yeah, you're the best, they would be like, yeah, sure, here's your money. Yeah, so yeah, which I'm not like, if it comes, if it comes

down to it, trade him. That's fine. Basically, the thing that aggravates me is people sit here and try to act like he's not a good player because saying that. But no, seriously, who said he's not a good player? Right? But I'm just saying I don't like the net better off with Robert Quinn being here, if if, if, if Lawrence wasn't here, having Robert Quinn at least gives you a chance exactly, That's what he's saying. It gives you a chance. Does that mean you're good as good or

better than you were last year? It means it means you can be as good I've already said, I don't think you're betterrbacks on this team. It gives you a chance to like to keep yourself afloat. It doesn't make you a better But say, I don't mean I didn't mean to direct that at you. But like just on Twitter and and in the fan base and the league narrative since the playoffs ended is people as soon as this guy wants his money, they're like, this guy's not

very good. Why would you want him. Anybody's saying that is uninformed that anybody in this room saying I'm not directing it at y'all. No, No, I'm just saying though, but we're acting like though. And I'm just trying to get a clarity here. I heard two really good opinions here, and I was I was thinking Nick was gonna stand there and say, yeah, give him twenty three and a half million dollars. He's saying give him twenty which they have.

They're giving him twenty million dollars. Either what are you're comfortable giving him twenty three? Trade him or pay him? I don't care. But like I don't want to. I don't want to talk about that he's not that good. And again I'm not I'm not talking. I'm not direct I don't think anybody's saying that. A lot of people are saying that a lot of people, like none of us agree he's good. We all agree he's a really,

really good player. My point just still is that I think the Cowboys have given themselves leeway because I feel like they look at it as if I got to go into next season and I've got Robert Quinn and I don't have DeMarcus Lawrence. I still feel like I'm as good as I was last year, and I'm hoping. I'm hoping my linebackers are better because they're one more year experience corners. Safety I brought in gives me a little bit more. We'll talk about him in the next segment.

I feel like they believe they can be as good, at least as good if they change out those parts. Clip this out and save it. Okay, clip it out. We can put it on Twitter if they If that happens, if Robert Quinn's their centerpiece and Tank isn't on this team, it will go about as well as we don't need a number one receiver straight up. No. Yes, So you're saying, basically, Robert Quinn is Hearns. I think, yeah, Yeah, he's Hearns. He's a guy who can be a really good player

if he's got a badass opposite him. Yes, that's what I think, because what you just kind of said was, you know, that's what teams do for quarterbacks. They get a backup quarterback in in case we don't have this quarterback. We got this guy in here and he can help. We hope that that's not the case. Now. I understand quarterbacks the defensive ends different because they both can play.

But I'm just saying, I just don't know how you can say that if we don't have him the law and we'll have Quinn be the same, pay him, pay him. Then if that's true, if that's actually if that's your attitude, if that's that's your attitude, and you pay him whatever he wants, you pay him right because you're saying you're gonna be appreciated. Word is that you need to pay Quinn twenty million? No, no, no, no, we're just what

I'm saying. What I'm saying. That's why I say you got a heck of a deal getting Robert Quinn for what you got him. Absolutely because to me, that keeps you, that keeps you where you were last year. Now, if you guys agree that you're gonna be appreciably worse if you don't have him on your team, that to me is the definition of break the bank to pay him. Yeah, yeah, I know. So in the y wouldn't be willing to give him that twenty three million said, I was, okay,

pay him. I don't get here I learn they need to pay him. I mean, I think this is a standoff right now, the twenty three and twenty this is probably the exact reason why he has a miss signed is because this is the same conversation that's happening between his representatives and the Cowboys, and there are some clear arguments on both sides that are probably legitimate, and it just they haven't found a way to find the middle ground. We're in the rank of paying. Where is he on

the on the levels? I'm glad I got I got a hot take for you. I'd like to hear it. Hey, hey, hey, let me take for eight minutes over here, let me take a break. We'll be right back to the Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Radio Koboo Texas is three days, six stages, over one hundred artists including The Killers, Minor, Witchy, Leonard skinnerd You Miss, Lauren Hill, Kid Rock, Lennis Morris, Set, Little Big Town, The eight Ft Brothers, Counting Crows, Pitfall, Sting,

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did when they named John Dear their official tractor. Experience one for yourself. If this is my John Deerdealer dot com slash Football Back to the Break, Welcome back. We're in the second second of the break live from the SWDC more just studios at the start talking Cowboys football. We're talking about this defensive end situation. I had no idea when I set out to figure out what we're gonna talk about today that we would spend this much time on Robert Quinn and Tank Lawrence. But I'm glad

we did because I think it's a good discussion. I wasn't expecting you to slander Tank Lawrence, and I wasn't expecting you to slander Robert Quinn, but it happens. It's right how you guys started off not wanting to pay him, and then by the end of it you were so eight down that you are all having different arguments here. Again, like I just said, I just don't think that they're the same player right now. I don't think they might have similar traits, but I don't think they're the same player.

Definitely not same for the upside and all that. So I but then again, this is not quarterback. This is the defensive end. And Stephen Jones said yesterday both it's both. We want left side, right sides screaming off the edge. You mentioned Steven Jones. Real quick before we get to Dave's hot take, we do actually have the audio of Stephen Jones talking about a hot trade. Let's hear what

Stephen had to say about it. Well, I think, obviously defensive line with our challenges we've had with you know, with Randy, certainly, I think Randy's done it, you know, it's back on it and really doing a great job of getting himself to in a position where hopefully he can get back at some point and help us out. But with that unknown being there, and then of course having the same situation with David Irving, we you know, our pass rush and we're certainly don't have a DeMarcus

Lawrence signed yet either. We really felt like we needed to shore that up. And of course the law comes off that left side just right end spot. With Randy being a question mark is a you know, it's a big deal to us, and certainly, uh, Robert's probably got a few more skins than Randy's been in the league quite a bit longer, but real important, as we all know, get pressure on the passer, and really felt like he

our system. We were fortunate. I think the Dolphins are moving to a you know, a three four scheme down there, which really doesn't fit what Robert does. So just so happened. There was a good opportunity there, and I think he really fits uh Rod and what he's all about. And I think Robert really felt like that it'd be good, a good way to, you know, for him, because he wanted to play under a one year deal is get with Rod and felt like he could really really flourish

at the right end spot and in our scheme. All right, That's what Steven Jones had to say. Not a lot different than the kinds of things we've been talking about. Obviously didn't get into a deep discussion that we did, but I did want to get Dave. You said you had a hot take on this whole thing. Why don't you wrap that up for us? It's really not it's

not that hot. It's just football economics. But for all the gnashing of teeth and whining about tanks contract, I had sure as hell rather find a way to pay him than Zeke Elliott. Wow, that is a whole new show. Yeah, straight up. And what's harder? What I can't say that I disagree with you? What's harder to find pass rush running backs? Yeah? I agree? I mean you want to pay the quarterback the guy who gets the quarterback, the guy who catches the ball, the guy who defends the

guy that's catching the ball, blocker in there's somewhere too. Well, those guys are already enough contract fortunately. But I mean, if i'm ranking them the big contracts, I'm going Dak one just because he's the quarterback. I don't he's not the best of the five, but he's the quarterback hardest to find, Yeah, Dak, Tank Cooper, seek Byron. That's my ranking which could find You think, No, it's a very

hard position to find. But I just haven't seen a large enough sample size to feel comfortable dolling out that kind of money. Now, if he comes back this year and has a great year, including some interceptions that change your opinion, yeah, I'd have to revisit that. But I mean, let's let's be blunt, like the odds that all five of them get signed a long term. They can do it.

I know they can, will they want. I'll believe it when I see it, because that's the other thing about this too, is I know you can, but I also know how they play hardball here and you can't franchise everybody, so you're gonna have to figure out how to get them all signed and without using the franchise tag on everybody. Right, let's play Devil's Advocate and as I mean, all right, let's say they like meet in the middle with Tank

and it's like twenty one five. I mean, that's a huge chunk of change, you know, like it's only one point five more than he's than they we're gonna pay him. But you got to assume the guarantees are up there too, like you know, seventy eighty million guarantee. I mean, but that's not killing your cat though, right now, is it. I mean, that's still just it. We're still talking about your and what you're actually gonna have against the cap

each here, right, it won't kill it. But throw that on with a deck extension and Cooper extension and kind of running out. I'm gonna save you a little money, isn't he He would say, if this year, if you did it, if you did it, But but you don't want to do it. You know, you don't want to cut if you say twenty one and a half billion for d law. But he only counts what ten or so this year. That means at some point there's the thirty sitting there it's coming at some point, so you

don't you don't want to do it. Who's been more important to this team the last three years? Zeke Dacke. I think Zeke's number one for me on that list. If I'm ranking, I put Zeke. Yeah, and I think that's two different questions. I think over the last several years, you're right, Zeke has been the most important player that they've had. However, I do agree with Dave from the standpoint if you start talking about replacement value, the hardest

thing to replaces the quarterback. The easiest thing in today's NFL. And I'm not saying it's it's a guarante it's not wrong to do it. You're gonna find Zeke. But the easiest thing in NFL to replace for relatively little is the running back position. And the guy who's the most likely to not be as effective as he ages is the running back. Right, DeMarcus Ware was getting ten sacks the season in Denver at like thirty three. You know,

quarterbacks can obviously play till their forty. Tackles can play till their forty some some tackles, No, some quarter No, Yeah, there's a few. Yeah, there's a few of them. I mean, I mean, the the the age thirty cliff for running backs is a thing. It just is. And I mean Zeke's nowhere near thirty. I get that, but man, Zeke could be one of those special ones. That's the thing you also gotta allowed for years that there. I'm not trying. I'm just asking. Z Zeke is everything to this team.

I know, but draft draft, I just draft another one. I just don't really like, um thinking about Dak being here without Zeke. Yeah, I don't. I don't. They drafted Zeke for Romo, did I know? You know, I don't know. I know it's like, well, they're hard to find a quarterback. But I don't know. But you know, that's also why I think's back there and you got and you got Amari Cooper, you got this offensive line. I think I take my chance and I'd like to do all of them.

Don't put me in the I hate Dak, you know, although you can't. You can't have these conversations without you hate somebody, just like it just slipped off its Hey, it's just being real. List. Yeah, I just I see what's going on with Gurley, and everybody's worried about his knee one year into this mega contract, and I mean he was he's a stud and if that can happen to him, it can happen to Zeke. I mean they

didn't even use him to the super Bowl. That there's there's something about that can happen that suggests to me that that that that all of this conversation still goes back to running backs just aren't like you can pay him a ton of money, but at any moment they can drop off a cliff and just not be a part of your still scored three points, so it's not like it's like they didn't even use Todd Gurley. Yeah, they scored thirty. They've been one thing. But I mean

they needed to use him, or they needed him. I don't know if he was hurt or well, that's my point. The point is he sat on sat on the sideline for a lot of that game holding his helmet, and

it's right. And my point is that if they only scored three points, that meant they needed him and for whatever reason they didn't use him, right and whatever whatever the reason is, So my point is you can pay sixty million dollars and with the running back position as Dave said, you just might be paying sixty million to somebody that's not a big You could say the Cowboys don't use certain players Tavon whatever they use Zeke, Yeah, yeah,

just they do just a bit. Yeah, And that might be the problem, and it might be what they're saying and your point. Going with your point, you look at the history of this franchise. You go back to the nineties when they had another running back of the caliber of Zeke and they tried to go that route of playing hardball with him. It didn't work out so well. They end up having to pay him and he ended

up being worth that money. Right, So he was gonna he could be specialized if he wouldn't have nine more one thousand yard seasons in a row than right. And that's the thing that's the game you're playing here, is is he one of the special ones? Or is he one of those guys that after another three or four, two or three years he's kind of washed up? To circle that back onto Marcus Lawrence, Jerry Jones brought up

Emmett on Monday talking about it. He was like, you're like, yeah, like these things get contentious, Like you know, Emmett Smith case in point, But it'll all work itself out and emit or business partners now and him and Diaz are hugging it out. Marcus, the markets, did it happened? The Marcus being mad that they won't pay him will not last if they do pay him. Yes, the business yeah, see that's but the amount of money, Yeah, that's that's the issue. I get it. I understand which to you.

I mean, look, if like I said this on the last show, like if if it's gonna be like this, just rip the band aid off and trade him. Like I love, I love the guy. I love as a reporter. I love that he's always willing to speak his mind. I think he's a great player. But right in the locker room people talk about that all. I would rather just rip this band aid off than draw this thing

out into into July. I'm with you, but I unless they find a way to get Nick Bosa or at Oliver, this defense won't be as good without him, even with Robert Quinn here just won't be all right. We're gonna take our final break when we come back, We're gonna take a little time. Grin has a little game for us. We want to get into that ask some some questions that may get to a little bit more discussion going here. We'll do that when we come bright back this Dallas

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May first registered today at Dallas Cowboys dot com slash Academy. Yeah, and by the way, if you guys haven't checked it, out those camp's pretty good. We got our guy Danny McCrae who used to play for the Cowboys, now up Tigers forever. You guys doing the game LSU. Yeah over there game day, getting ready for game day. We're still hanging in. We're still playing. Yeah, I'm not I'm not bigrudging you. I'm I'm actually like giving a little love to become a basketbr but whatever, hey, stop it. Are

you gonna play TCU? Yeah, we'll playing it in the semi final in New York City. Right to go all the way? Like rewarding our team for mediocrity is basically your coach, like sixty two and sixty two. But the kids, maybe the kids have some fun anyway. Anyway, good luck to you guys tonight. Thank you. Hopefully you get to win. I will be rooting for you. Thank you, Ryan, you got a game for us. What what do we got?

I do? I got some questions a couple of Maybe we got too, but maybe it'll tie into some of the things. Are you more excited about the Cobs signing or the Quinn trade? Well we know what Nick and Dave are gonna say, Well, well, no, it's the Quinn trade. I'm way more. I'm way more excited about the trade. If Tank is part of this team, that's my caveat. Okay, excited. How about you, Derek, I'm sorry, no quin Quinn trade for sure. I mean, even if the law is not

a part of this team. I think it's a setback, yes, but I do think he will affect the team a little bit more than than Cob. I'm more excited about that tree. Yeah, I think it's Quinn. I think Quinn. I think I think you look at all the players that they've signed this offseason, I think all of them have upside potential. I think Quinn has the largest upside potential based upon what he's done in his career. Okay, guys, why do we feel like there's still a needed safety?

Do we? That's an assumption? I do? I do? Yeah, because I mean, how do I want to articulate this? I think George Iloca could he could represent a step up, but it's not the slam dunk step up that everybody wants to see from this position. Uh. You know, he's he's started, He's been good a lot, like a lot of these guys that get though like his you know, recent trajectory is not great. And you know, and we never even talked about Loca because we got so wrapped

up in Quinn. But look at the details of his contract. This is not a guy that I mean, this is a guy that you couldn't part ways with if training camp shakes out a certain way. But let me ask you this. I think what we've all felt around here is that they needed to particularly, they needed to do something on the back end. And and I don't because

that's what Earl Thomas would have represented. Yeah, I think they feel like Woods is on the come and they feel like he's going to be an even better player, in which case is a Looca an upgrade as far as tackling exparent Because you you listen to fans, what they want to point out is that game against the Rams, you needed somebody to go up and make that tacture

and you couldn't get that right. So if you can have that guy who is a sure tackler that can play in the box and Woods takes that next step, do you not feel like a Loca fits that bill. I think he absolutely does. And I think the safety position is better right now than it was when the season ended. But I'm not confident of that. You know, like, is there anything that gets you closer to that knowing that you only have a second round pick in the draft. Yeah,

there's about Yeah. If you make you feel better, if you can't cover like you really want in a dynamic way, then get your ass to the quarterback. And they did that with Quinn. So that's that's the thing. You can't fix this in then fix it. Then just beef this up even more. Get dynamic players. That's why we wanted Earl Thomas and and Eric Berry had a healthy and

healthy you know, you want those players. If you can't get it, then get good, solid players and then try to find a way to make them better and they'll be they'll you know. And I think those guys in Seattle were great, but I think they were better because of those defensive you know, linemen and edge rushers that they had just rolling in there. Um and that made the Legion of Boom and all that. I mean, they were good, but I think it all started up front.

In my opinion, that's a good and and they're definitely better because their pass rush is better. But and I don't want to throw dirt on I Loca because I like the signing. I think he could be good here. From all accounts, he's a great guy too. But playing Devil's advocate, can you one hundred percent convince me this isn't Will Allen exactly? I mean, you know, yeah, you're

he's a vet minimum guy. You know they sign Will Allen was twenty thirteen, like he played in Pittsburgh with all the short players, like he'll do this, he'll do that, and he lost his job to JJ Wilcoxon got cut. So you can't convince me that that's not one hundred percent the case here, especially you know, you would probably feel better about this if they were to draft Jonathan Abraham. Oh absolutely right. Yeah, And before you get into the draft stuff, I'll just I'll set that up with Ilka,

Cobb and Quinn all one year deals. They're all they've all, you know, been good players and they have a role here. But if the best guy on the board at fifty eight is a slot receiver, they can do a lot, or a pass rusher or a safety. None of those three guys are going to prevent you from doing that. They are in a great That's why I love all

the movies that they may. They've given themselves upside potential while at the same time hitting positions of need, while at the same times freeing themselves to just draft as they want to draft under. I really think this is the best they've done free agency in the years i've covered the team. So it's funny because like a week ago, and I don't even know if you were on the show when we were weeks ago, I know I was so but patient. I'm just not a good patient or

patience or not very patient. The worst, the worst patient you and death, Uh, what path would you take at backup running back, a VET or the draft? Jerry Jones like I should have thought of this. But Jerry Jones really opened my eyes because I asked him about that on Monday. I was like, you know, he said the same thing. Derek just said. He's like, well, we've set ourselves up to do this. We don't have any needs. And I was like, that's true everywhere, but backup running back,

you haven't done anything. You don't have anybody, and he was like, that's true. We're looking at the draft, and also you can do stuff and free agency when the draft's over. And then I went and looked and I was like, holy crap, he's like t J. Yelden's still out there. Um, I like that move. Isaiah Crowell just signed, so he's not there anymore. But two and a half a million dollars dealing. There's there's six or set Jagi. He's still out there, guys. I know they're scared of

his knee. Yeah, there's six or seven veterans that are still on the market. Um our guy from LSU, Jeremy Hill coming off in a cl so fat back from the Rams. He went from the Pats. So he went from the Bengals to the Pats. Yeah, now about oh c J. C J. Anderson. Wouldn't that be a story? Well, you know, he can't hurt you like he What if I watched him hurt us? No, no, no no. If he can't hurt you, if you sign, he's not, yeah,

I can't hurt you, right. Um, So I think expect him to draft a guy day three and then they could even still add a guy after that, or you know, if if it just doesn't work out, then you could go sign a guy. Do you think they could? They could if they if they felt like that, if they if the guy was there. Would you go as high as second round to take a running back? Oh? They both are gonna they're gonna tell you an R word

that they old me yesterday. Okay, Oh god, that sounds bad. Yea, What do I say on as a draft in the fifty eight at running back and use oh rich? Oh Rich? Yeah, Rich, wait too Rich? Just talents not there. That thing's gonna stretch when you get those two compensatory fours. The talents definitely there. But we picked up some picks from New England yesterday. Didn't two time all pro. I mean, you shouldn't need to draft in the second round. Well, but unless you want to sign. But as you just said,

you want to get rid of you, Yeah exactly. You just said. You just said, I'm okay with them walking from him next year. And if you're gonna do that, you better get a running back on your contract for two more years. Well you prepare, he's round take fifty. I got him for two more years and I'll worry about that so you can. You can get somebody next year if you wanted to groom them. If this offensive line is as good as it's supposed to be and

stays as good as it's supposed to be. I'll use pick twenty five on a running back in three years and I'll be fine, or even pick you know, sixties, whatever. I'll worry about that later. I get your Sony, Michelle, Yeah, go get my Nick Chubb in the second round in three years, that's fine. And but this year, I think

fourth round or fifth round. They got two picks in the fourth and I just feel like one of them is going to be a running But there's a little there's a little bit of a problem with that because in two or three years, will your left tack will still be the right guy right might be replenishing that position. Those are future Dave's problems. Yeah, that's we'll worry about that one. I'll be listening to you guys that day. That's right. I want already coast, I'll be gone. You

want else, I'll tell you what. I'd love to have him. They can definitely get. No, don't look Nick, don't look at the forty. Don't just watch this guy. This guy is tough. He is a tough runner. Instantly that instantly helps your your riz Right, he'll be there, He'll be there in the fourth and his dad will come out. Yeah, game hang out and the interview before the game. We have some I don't think cartilage grows back. I think

there's some things going on. He might have gotten plastic surgery, though, I don't know he's got enough money. Yeah, yeah, what else you got for us? How about this? And uh? This was again another Quinn question though, but more bang for your buck? Jason Witten, Seawan Lee or Robert Quinn? Robert Quinn? What? No, what's the hidden part of that question? Because I feel like that's a set up question. No, it's not a set up question. Just more more bank

for your button, more bang for your buck. Let's let's take it as as it's really said. Not the best player talking about eight to maybe ten millions. Yeah, Quinn, you spent money, more bang for the guys. You got Whitten on the three and a half, you got Quinn on an eight you got I thought Whitten was more like five Okay, five, right, I said three and a half incentives up to five or six. I'm gonna say Witten.

Witten is gonna give you more bang. I mean he's he's in a catch sixty balls for like five sixty yards. I understand for the Bucklet, it's not your man A ton more for for Quinn. I still think quinns probably And if it's not Quinn, I would say it's probably Lee. My expectations are really good. Question work stupid. I didn't look at stupid. It was worded perfectly. Yeah, he's trying to do I would bet my life to debt, not my life. That's a lot. I would bet fifty bucks.

Jason Witten's gonna catch somewhere between like fifty and sixty five. By the way, I would even guess that, I would say more less than that. Now he's coming off. He's not coming off the field. He's not coming off if that happens. If that happens, that's gonna be a problem. The guy who owns the team, he doesn't want to What if he's not what if he doesn't need to

come out the field. That's but that's my point. Like I think that I think that they're gonna I think some of these other guys are gonna be better than the guy who owns the team. Was like, I gotta see it to believe it. I'm saying that he is. He wrong though, you just threw that in there and got cut off by Dave. You say you think one of these tight ends is going to be better than Witten. I think one of these tight ends gonna probably be better than Whitten. Which one, if I had to bet

right now, this year? I think this year, and especially that in situations where you are specifically looking to throw the ball, I think Darwin will be a better option than Wait, I would like to see. And I think, yeah, I get it. And I'm not saying that, I'm not willing to bet my life, as Dave just said, I just I just feel. I just feel like, I feel like this year Win's gonna be He's gonna play a role.

And the thing I loved about that signing more than anything else is it adds some veteran leadership to that room. That's what I'm more concerned about is how do you develop these young guys? And I think Jason will help develop these young guys. I don't think what he's going to provide on the fields necessarily going to be earth shattering, groundbreaking, you know, I think he'll do a little right, ask him to do something he's never done. I get that,

I absolutely gets. But as he came back, I think he came back because he misses the game of football. I think he also realizes that there's not I don't think he necessarily looks as his future in the booth as much as he looks at his future in coaching. This is a step towards that. I think that's great. All right, let me rephrase there's regardless redirector that he's lawyer. I think he killed all days, so that was good.

I agree with regardless of his role, I think we would all like Jason Witten's not hitting more than like, he's not topping like six hundred and fifty yards, like, no way, no way, He's catching more than fifty six every time. I was not just rocking about at nine yards. He hasn't had a thousand yards seasons since like twenty twelve. I think so yeah, So I mean thousand yard season though, I mean he hit him with some reg I mean he was hitting nine hundred ish for with some regularity

for a while, getting the Hall of Fame. Probably he ain't. He's not topping like six hundred yards. My main point either way, Quinn's got the higher potential, Like I could him. I could see Quinn hitting eleven twelve sacks in the right scenario, so more bang for my But only though, if Marcus Lawrence is on this team, he's rewind back to he's not five minutes ago. He ain't doing that without without some help. I got you. Yeah, right, this is gonna be kind. This is just a young guy question,

so only day can answer. No. No, no's a young guy question. Thirty now man, No, no young guys stars players, guy play a question. More excited to see Cedric Wilson or Chris Covington in camp? Chris Covington or Christian Covington because that's gonna be confused Chris Chris the linebacker? Yeah,

oh man, they're both Christian. Like literally, I don't know how they're gonna I would just say Christian on you like the little yeah, um oh, I'm just probably Cedric Wilson because like, what does the sam and this defense really do? I mean, I don't know. I mean it might be a starter. I mean, okay, so what Damian Wilson was a starter? Like he'd start and then he'd come off the field, Like this is a starter. They're

gonna play. They're gonna play Nickel like sixty five percent of the timeout Wilson gonna do go on the field and be there for an hour, and he's going on. That's my thing. I don't know that I'm excited about seeing either one because I don't think either one will play a significant you know what's funny both of them. The last two days I've seen him in the exact same spot in the lunch room getting chicken sandw whatever. Seeing the exact same spot, both of those guys, and

they don't look too far apart from each other. And my only I'm kind of being, you know, tongue in cheek there. Cedric Wilson has definitely been in the weight room. He looks a little bigger, he does. He looks the part. He looked really kind of finish. But I'll tell you this, I'm the guy that films every single rep of training camp on my phone. Not out the window, right, No, not out the window, not out the window, just at training camp. Cedric Wilson, move on. Cedric Wilson is gonna

give me, is gonna give me more. Cedric Wilson's gonna give me more to watch because he's a receiver and receivers are always the stars. A third guy in there to that list that I wouldn't mind. I'm kind of excited about I think Alumba is gonna be I think he's gonna jump something this year. Oh, there we go, Nick, because Cash and I we're talking about summertime stuff. That's okay, it's okay, how about this? But the last question, with two minutes go in the game, you're ready for this

one day, I'm gonna direct this one to you. I'm ready. Yeah. Is there a point you'd pull the plug on the Lawrence steal? Absolutely? I mean yeah, if it's if he holds firm on this uh surgery stuff, and it's obvious that he's gonna miss time, I'm yeah. So what's your what's your drop? Did deadline? Let's assume it because I've heard this is usually like a four month recovery. So you just hit him hard, that's honestly what you drop.

That's right, though, I don't think that's less. I've just seen big boy running around, you know not, but he's not actually moving at three hundred pound man, like a shoulder injury. You gotta move, you're talking about anto, Yeah, but if you're cleared to do some stuff that's run, that's not move A three hundred pound man. Okay, though, if DeMarcus is firm on not getting this surgery, and I mean I'm not privty these conversations, so it's hard

for me to say. But like I would try to trade him draft weekend if there hasn't been any movement on this. Yeah, I mean if there's gonna be tough to do, but I mean, well, and what sucks what would you take for it? What sucks is the shoulder situation is going to affect what you give for him. So, like, I don't think you could get a first round pick

for DeMarcus Lawrence right now. We were we were very optimistic in the draft show a couple of weeks ago where we were getting we got so much stuff back for him. We're not getting Like it's not happening. No, probably even if at that point because by draft again and going what Nick was saying, he may be ready for the season if he has a surgery right after draft, if he gets traded right it, I think would actually help his cause if he had surgery right now. This

sounds crazy, but I think it would help him. In the Jones's eyes that Okay, he's committed. I agree, he's committed to Yeah, I think I think holding out, holding that over their head, I think is a terrible it'd also help his trade value, because that's the thing, if if if I wore a little bit like this, if the Cowboys an't willing to sign me and they're willing to trade me, I want to give them as much incentive to trade because that other team's gonna want me

and they will pay me. If he was fully healthy. I don't think you could get a mac package for him, Like I don't think somebody's given you two first round picks, but I think I do know if they were oh sure, yeah, but I think you could get a nice package for him. But not as it is right which I would I trade him if I could, like if if the deal was good, I would at a certain point. But like I kind of start to get the feeling that for better or for worse, we're locked into this thing. Like

Nick's right about it. I mean, you just hearted Stephen talking, and he's talking as though it's already done. He's going to be back, he said later on off the left and right, and he said later on in the interview too, that were as motivated as ever to get him signs and Nick, you said it earlier in the show. I

really believe this is going to happen. I just I want him to get it done fast enough so it doesn't affect their ability to use last year as a springboard, because I'd know you here coaches say you got to start over all the time. I'm a big believer in there is an ability to use what you did last year as a springboard if you can bring in the right pieces to support the areas where you will weak last year. I will say this, you go out to a place like Phoenix for the owners meetings and you're

just around people and you have conversations. The vibe, the sense that I get from talking to people is like this is a negotiation, like they are going happens. But a lot of times, you know, like you go back to the desk, things like, well we haven't talked to desen As people in months, Like there's nothing you know, Like it ain't that, Like they are going back and forth trying like this sounds like a negotiation, Like they're not just like screw him, We'll leave it till July.

Like they're motivated. That's the sense that I get so at least there's that. We appreciate you guys joining us. We'll be back on our normal time next wins. Absha backups at that point until then for Nick Eatman, Dave Helm and Brian brought us on Derek Eagles and this has been the Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.