Cowboys Break: Pick By Pick

the latest edition of The Break. We are fresh off the twenty twenty two NFL Draft, so we've got a full show of opinions and thoughts coming out of that draft, and a lot to talk about a lot of picks for the Cowboys. A lot of different people have different opinions, so we'll get these guys a pain to get them on the red. Tyler Smith taught us that absolutely and it can be on a lot all the way across the spectrum, right from great pick to not so great pick.

All right, so let's actually do that. Let's start first with Tyler Smith. He was the Cowboys first round pick, number twenty four overall. Obviously, there's some people out there, I think it was a reach. Others think it was a great pick. Let's go around the table. What were your thoughts on the first pick? Nic, We'll start with you today. I thought it was the It filled their need and it was their best player on their board

to fill a need. So I think when that happened, I mean they maybe they would have taken other guards, but this guy could come in. He can play guard, and I think if he just plays guard and starts, I think this is what I wrote yesterday. I think he would be a solid pick if he comes in and plays just like Connor Williams. If he's better than that, it's a really good guard. I think it's gonna be a good pick. If he eventually goes to tackle, I think it's a great pick. Well, you know, my initial

thought was like who is this guy? You know, I'm having to look up pictures, look up for highlights and put all this content out, and when you're having a hard time finding anything content wise, you're like, Okay, well then he's not that great. That's what your initial assumption is. So after looking more, like reading more about him, looking at footage and all that. One of the things that I think most people like at this point is his size,

how big he is, how heavy he is. He has the size that they kind of need in the old line. One of my biggest concerns, and it's been brought up to everybody's attention, the penalties, you know him, the holding penalties. And my thing is like, what do you do when you bring in a player like that that you say, okay,

well you can teach that, you can improve that. But when you look at the track wrecker so far that you've had players like Connor Williams, a veteran guy, You've had Lyle Collins, You've had even Tyrn Smith having holding calls. So when it's really like a problem on its own here, it makes me wonder how he's actually going to be able to improve in that aspect and be able to contribute as much as he can on the field without creating additional problems that the Cowboys already have to deal with.

I think what I've settled on is I believe two things at the same time, which like kind of what you just said, I mean, I knew who Tyler Smith was. I knew that he was an O line prospect that might go in the back half of the first round, but I didn't know a ton about him, to be perfectly blunt, like he was not a name that we got two two in depth with on the Draft show. I think the Cowboys did a better job than usual of kind of hiding him from us, Like he didn't

come to the facility. He wasn't a Dallas day guy, even though he could have been, which is interesting, probably on purpose, if I had to guess. So, once I really started to dive into who he was, I was like, I see the I can see the appeal here. Talking about a guy that just turned twenty one. He's absolutely enormous. He's certainly athletic. He's like a raw piece of clay. You know, you can mold him into whoever you want.

And like Nick said, if you can turn him into a franchise left tackle, then this will be incredible value.

But in the immediate all of that stuff is true that I think that there's going to be some work here, like I would imagine like this, I think this guy's going to have a steeper learning curve than some of the other guys we've seen come in like a Zach Martin or even like a sounds silly to say about a guy that was so young, even a Micah Parsons and a CD Lamb, like, I think Tyler Smith is good enough to start as a rookie, but I think it's optimistic to think that he's going to come in

and dominate from the get, which he could, and I'll eat that crow later. But that's just how I feel right now, and so I just have this nagging feeling like this looks like it could be a great pick in the big picture, but if I'm trying to be better in twenty twenty two, we'll see. And so both of those things are kind of true at the same time.

And that's why my overall impression of this draft classes I'm like, I like what you're doing, but I don't think the team is better for this season after this draft,

at least not significantly. You know. The one thing I will say about that, when you talk about better for this season, if I'm making the evaluation on what we think Tyler Smith can be this year, and you look at the guy that he would have replaced if he's at guard, if he's at left guard, and Connor Williams, well, I look at that is my biggest problem with Connor Williams.

Outside of the penalties, which are kind of the same thing if you want to just say you kind of compare a person to person, the other part to it is really just about his ability to move people in the run game. I always thought the problem for Connor Williams is he just wasn't strong enough in the middle of that offensive line to be able to get much push. The one thing we know about this guy is he's big, he's strong, and he's me. That's what we've been told.

He plays me and for me. I look at that, and I think that gives you an immediate improvement in the run game if he is what they say he is as of right now. And yeah, there are a lot of things are going to have to improve, and I think that's really about getting him to tackle. But I think at guard, if you're asking him to see this guy move this guy, I kind of have some optimism that he may be able to do that. I think.

I mean, I said that at the end of our last draft show yesterday, is I'm if I'm looking for an optimistic viewpoint on this guy right now. Yeah, I think the one thing we know he does great according to all the evaluators is run block ninety nine percentile according to PFF. Like he can get in there and mall and what makes the Cowboys offense as effective as possible, generating success in the run game. And that's awesome and I hope that works out. I think it has the

potential too. But you also think a guy playing a new position. He was a college tackle, was not a guard, and pass pro is a big part of this. We've also seen Dak having a guy right on top of him in the pocket is a recipe for disaster and get you talk about steep learning curve, think about some of the guys this guy is going to have to go up against. I mean, we know the problems that

the d tackles in Washington present. We know what Philly just did drafting Jordan Davis, Jeffrey Simmons, and Tennessee is on the schedule this year, Vita Vea's back on the schedule, Aaron Donald's on the schedule. Like that's what When I say steve learning curve, I just mean, yes, I think this guy can help in the run game. But it's a lot to ask for this guy to hit the ground running. And so I think that's more of a realistic viewpoint, Nick, when we think about an amber had

mentioned it. But when you look at the penalties, how much of a problem do you think that is? Because there are a lot of fans out there that that was the first thing they read about this guys, he has a ton of penalties from last year, Connor Williams, one of the reasons fans wanted him out was because he had a ton of penalties. What are your thoughts

on on the penalties? Well, I mean I think that you know, certainly something that's an issue because your first question is who who in the American Athletic Conference is such a badass that you can't walk that you can't that you're havn't hold that, you know, you would think you would be able to just you know, you know stop um. You know, I think if he wanted to take the flip side. You know that they play a lot of snaps. It plays a lot more snaps. They

play at a faster pace. To explain it a little bit more, because we talked about that, Yeah, the offense that Tulsa uses is this you know that high pace where they Chris Beam looked it up the other day I mean nine hundred and nine snaps when some of the other guards were in the seven thirty seven forty range. So not only is it a lot of snaps, but you're playing a lot of snaps of the same amount of game fast race. He's like quick, quick, quick, and that's going to lead to some of that. I talked

to his college coach, Philip Montgomery. He says, yeah, he had some problems with his hands outside a little bit. He keeps his hands inside and really locks in. He'll be fine. He also mentioned and he said, you know, he admits he's biased. He said his strength of absolutely throwing guys to the ground is what led to almost half of the penalties. He said, there's times when that is absolutely not a penalty. It was just he just crushes this guy to the point where they're like, well

that that looks like a wrestling move. That's got to be a flag. Whether or not that's just coach speak, I don't know, but you know, he said that that strength kind of leads to some of that. People on the personnel side of the building said the same thing is like, go actually watch the tape and you will see that some of these are like flags. Of domination, Like it's it's not a guy reaching for somebody that got past him as much as it's like, well, your

body slammed him, which I mean, it's still penalty. I get it. But I think the Cowboys think that they can coach that out of him, or at least maybe maybe he can get away with it a little bit better in the NFL. I mean, if you Tyrn Smith has had that problem over the years as well. Jason Garrett used to get so mad and be like, you tell me where that's a penalty. Tyron Smith has just grown manning this guy, and I mean, it is what

it is. I guess it's still a flag, so it's not like you can just write it off as something you don't have to work on. But if it's not, they're not concerned that he like doesn't have the athleticism like he's lunging and grabbing. It's more like if he takes Dan killing Pete, If he takes Darn Pain and throws him to the ground and gets called for a penalty, that to me will be the qu event of one of those like goaltending calls when they fly they lay it in and you just swatted into the sixth row.

You can have the two points, but just know it's going to be like this all day long, so like kind of take that one. I'll take it. Yeah, all right, question though, you know we keep talking. He's a tackle, he's coming out of a tackle, and he's expected to move to guard position. And know a lot of old line man have that kind of flexibility where you can

kind of switch them around a little bit. But I've also seen the type of players that they do struggle a lot more when you switch them from position to position. So are you guys, just Dave Nick like in general, kind of expecting that to really be a transition and a great learning curve to happen here, or is he going to be really a guy that can come in and actually help at the guard position right away. I mean, it's a bad pick if he doesn't start a guard Honestly,

let's just people about it. It's a bad pick if he's not ready to do that. If he loses the job to a guy that got benched last year, that's not what you want. UM. But again, you talk about the youth and the athleticism and the size, Um, I definitely think he has that potential. I do think it's a good question because it's like, this kid's twenty one, and we feel like this is gonna be a learning curve anyway, and now you're going to cross train him at both positions. It feels like a lot to ask, um,

Micah did it, And that's rough. I know, that's rough to compare them. That is not a statement I ever expect to come from you. Like, that's a really optimistic statement when you say, well, Michael did it, Well, yeah, he was the best de physic player in the league this year. Maybe, but I mean I don't, I don't. I mean, they're probably going to need him. Let's be honest. It's six years running that Tyrone has been unavailable for some reason or another, and they did. They've got Josh

Ball and they drafted a tackle. I'm sure we'll get to it. But again, that's optimistic too. Is like guys that have never played in the regular season, So it's kind I mean to some degree in the NFL. The NFL is kind of about getting thrown in the pool at some point, so I mean, it's maybe not it's not ideal, yeah, but this happens a lot though, and and where the tack. You know, you play tackle in college,

but he probably could have played guard in college. It's just that he's good enough to play left tackle in that conference and really in other conferences. If we were gonna get down to it, it sounds like that you want well, yeah, I mean like fans would have a much better feeling about this guy if they knew the colleges and the coaches that were calling to get him to transfer. Let's be clear, maybe it wasn't the colleges. Maybe it's people that represent the colleges, or maybe it

was people that would just informally in fire. If he wanted to go to the transfer portal, he could have gone to a lot of schools. And some of these schools big times. Some of these schools are are playing for national championships every year Texas. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well maybe this year though. So I'm just saying, I guess tampering in college football is that a thing? Do

we have to worry about that? I mean for them, I mean now that you got in, now that you got in l Yes, I think it is a part of it is a part of college. Yeah. I actually asked what the rules are, and the rules are you cannot contact other players when they are not in the portal, but that still happens. You say, I mean I'll pull a neck, and so I mean the tide could have turned on that guy, could have been a whole different story. Here you go. But you know, the other thing to

think about here, so careful. The other thing to think about here is that. And this is my understand you guys, tell them if you think I'm wrong on this. But to me, it's an easier transition going from tackle to guard. If they were saying this year, you had this guy that played guard in college, and now we're going to move them to tackle in the NFL. Expect him to play this year, I would be a lot more like

an I don't trust that. I think going from tackle to guard, though, it's a little easier, especially if you got the strength that he has, which is the power, Like if you can play if you got the power, And I actually think it might help with some of the penalties too. When you're in tackle, you're kind of out on an island, so sometimes holding can be about you kind of get beat, you kind of have to recover.

You grab a guy guard, you got a little tighter box there between the center and the tackle, so there isn't as much need necessarily to sometimes whole. So all those things being considered, I think the transition's actually easier. But let's say let's say you pin him down at Guardiams did the same thing. Just throw that out Connord. Williams may not be as good a player, I know, I maybe, just maybe he's not as good a player as guy. Say go ahead. He started he did because

they had to put him in there. But I was just gonna ask, looking at what they currently have right now. If you got Tyler Smith pinned down a guard and for some reason something happens again and Tyron Smith has to come out of the game, who's your guy right now? It comes down wonderful question. Sorry, go ahead. It comes down to who's better at at your backup option? Is Connor McGovern you're better guard? Um then you know, and

then Tyler Smith can slide out? Or is is Matt will Esco or Josh Ball a better option at tackle? And are they better than Tyler Smith at tackle as well? Which I would hope not, but they might be. There isn't an answer to that question right now. There just isn't because we I know how good Tyler is. Josh Ball played two weeks of training camp football before he got hurt and red shirted, and well, let's go to

a rookie too. I would one of those three because Jerry Jones made it perfectly clear that he doesn't think they need a veteran tackle, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, actually, you know, I was going to talk about that a little later, but let's let's talk about that real quick, because I do think these conversations go together. Well, let's go. Was was drafting fifth round, one hundred and fifty fifth overall, And I think the question really is when you start

looking at these offensive linemen. They threw out those names, but they got a lot of young guys, and particularly when you start talking about Ball and farniok, and now well let's go and even Tyler Smith, none of them have really taken snaps, and so they're relying on them. Do you think that they will go into this season expecting that one of those guys will be their swing tackle, knowing that Tyron Smith may not play all the games

if history holds true. Let's get to oxin Arn't. I mean, let's get to that drill where they you know, it's just that one on one. Let's see how bad that they are there. Let's see either either Chauncey Golston is going to be the next LT or you know, these guys are awesome or they can't block, you know what I mean. Let's figure that out because that's when they'll go into it and to the into the season, into the heading into the season goal we need a trade for a veteran, or we need to add a veteran.

But I think for now they're gonna they're gonna be optimistic. What's that Mike Tyson adage. Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face, punched in the mouth. I mean, that's their plan right now, is for these young guys. And from what we hear, like Farnioks working a lot at center, like they want competition at the center spot. They brought in two undrafted centers, so like they're sitting here right now thinking they've got a bunch

of young guys. They're gonna push for spots. Hopefully that's true, but maybe they can maybe Labor Day weekend, we'll be like, oh my god, they gotta come on we'll spend send a sixth round pick to somebody. I mean, let's say that there's there's twenty practices at training camp. I mean, how many do we think Tyrant Smith will be playing?

Practicing ten or less? Hopefully right, So, the left tackle here, the backup tackle, is going to get a lot of snaps in the in the preseason games and in practice. So you know, whoever that is, if it's Wilesco, if it's Josh Ball, if it's a combination or both, maybe Terrence Steele gets some reps at the left side. So and going against one's going against one, yeah, going against you know, maybe Micro rushes out of there too. So I think I think that whoever it is is going

to get a lot of work at camp. I bet that's a wonderful point. And I mean, maybe Tyler Smith is such a stud that he can just kick out to tackle and move seamlessly. If not, I wonder if they would try to ask Steele to be their emergency left tackle and Ball or well, let's go can be a right right tackle. Yeah, you know, I actually was

wondering about that. They made it. They made it sound like during the press conference that they were going to try to during camp, give him some opportunities to kind of flip out to tackle and play some some tackle. I don't actually think that's the greatest idea if you want to be your starting guard this year. My thought is, as a rookie, get let him focus on guard, let those other guys look at look at those other guys that swing tackles, and give him the opportunity to be

the best guard he could possibly be. Do you guys agree with that? Yes, it's easy to say until DeMarcus Lawrence breaks his foot and Randy Gregory gets sick, and all of a sudden, you're like, all the week I'm making and I'm making a comparison to last year. Yeah, and Micah didn't play edge and training camp through, so we keep comparing this guy to Mica though I don't like that. I'm sorry, I'm not comparing him. I'm saying the asks of a guy like this are similar, though.

I mean, they liked him enough to draft him. There were other guys on their board, There were defenders on their board they could have taken, and they said this is the one. So that comes with a certain degree of expectation. But there's also a difference in a guy that's drafted what was it thirteen and this guy this draft twelve twelve, and guy this draft at twenty four. Sorry about you know? I mean Mia Micah had a

first round grade. Tyler didn't. So I think there's a difference between those and what you can expect from them coming out. They're not giving the sky a position. By the way, this is all projection on our parts, So that's how I'm going to operate. I don't I want to see what he can do whatever. All right, let's take our first break. When we come back, we're gonna keep going through this list, get to the second round pick Sam Williams slots to talk about there. We'll when

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SWBC Morgage studios at the Star. We're talking about the two twenty two draft Cowboys just finished. Let's get to the second round pick. Sam Williams he is an age. He was the number fifty six pick. Overall thoughts on the pick, Let's start with you, David. I keep saying it, and I'm sorry if I'm ever can record if you listen to the Draft show, but this, it just reminds

me of the DeMarcus Lawrence pick. To be honest with you, and I know they didn't trade up to get him, but I think that they identified him as one of a very small number of edges that can do that can bend the way they want, plays with the explosiveness they want. Is that the old miss Sack record? Um, hell like go? I mean that. The cool thing about Sam Williams is you can go find I heard like he wants maybe he wants to be called D. I

feel like I've heard that on the internet. I need to do some homework on that D. His mental name is de Eric. I believe Derek de Eric. I think I need to. I don't know he'll be let's go, he'll be here next week and I'm sure he'll talk about it. But maybe maybe he wants to be called D. Anyway, D Williams. That's I believe basketball, all right, D Brown Billy will Billy d Williams, Lando Calrissian maybe the ft with you you uh, Any, I'm sorry, I always do

that way. You'll know Lando. Huh, you'll know Lando, And I'm sorry. Listeners. Um, they're fine. Um, it's better than talk about that than talk about like the issues with this guy. Well, that's the thing we're gonna get to that. Tell me, what do you think of him as a player. You can go find tape of him holding his own and kicking ass against the guys that got drafted at the top of this draft, like Evan Neil and Charles Cross.

It's a very it's a very typical cowboys pick. Like I'm not saying he's better than the Cavon Thibodeaus and Aidan Hutchinson's, but like he's on the short list of like the four to six guys that can do that. We're still left on the board at the time that they picked. Or was it on a situation where if you're gonna get one of those guys, this is your last chance? And to nixt point, uh, he was probably still available for a reason that wasn't about how well

he bends the corner. Um. You said to Marcus Lawrence, I think Randy Gregory is also a guy you can compare him to in this pick because they which I didn't mean to say, like DeMarcus fell for character concerns. I just like they went up and got him aggressively because they were like, this is the last guy we got to get him, or else we're not getting an edge rusher. And that's how they felt about this as well. Yeah, and I think the reason why he fell is for

the same reason maybe as Randy Gregory. It's just they're just so teams are probably so concerned about his his off the field uh issues that he's had, and there's a lot of them, and also his his character is demeanor is you know, just there's a lot of things about him that are that are scary. The tape has to be really really good to offset that. I guess y'all are looking at tape. Sorry, yeah, I'm actually looking at him. He's got some really good highlights. Yeah, I

mean you watch him. No, that's Liberty. I got this for Lamar. Maybe he's gonna have a few from that game. Yeah, what are you saying about Liberty? It ain't It ain't Alabama. Well, my initial again, I always like to go from my initial thought to where I'm at now. My initial thought was like, what's up with these second round picks that the Cowboys always make? That with them they bring in some kind of issue, whether it's injury related or off

the field related. Now I decided to put that aside after listening to the press conference and say, okay, well, they clearly say that they've done their investigation. They've talked to many other people to get their input on this guy's demeanor, personality, and him as a person. So they've done their homework and felt confident enough to bring in bringing him here to the building. But watching him as a player and watching highlights and all that, he looks

like he's a pretty good player. He has the size, he has the build for it, he looks and good thing we have numbers that's gonna defferent shape players and all that and their names. Because he has a similarity face wise with Mica Parsons, I don't know if you kind of actually think, yes, some of a build, Yeah, the build too, believe in the face. I saw this thing. I'm scrolling down and I'm like, why is Mica wearing

a fifty two at fifty four number? Jersey, and that was Sam just posting the number that he's gonna be wearing. But yeah, physically he looks like he's pretty good. So I'm excited to actually see him play and see what he can do here because as a player, he looks

like he definitely has talent. The other thing, too, is old Miss asked him to do a lot of dirty work, Like he gave an interview recently where he talked about like they had him playing a four inside technique where you're like head up on a tackle or in between the tackle and guard more so than like playing out wide, which not that it affects the Cowboys, but Trayvon Walker out of George is a very similar story where Georgia just asked him to do a lot of stuff as

an edge setter and a rundefender, so he did. He definitely did do some of that stuff. But Sam Williams, he did more than just play the edge and just go after the quarterback. So I think there's even more that you could probably tap into purely from a football standpoint, I think it's a very good pick. But one year after doing something very similar and you already sort of have misgivings about it. You know, it's totally fair to question that logic because I think Nick, you and I

have talked about it. I mean, I think we all liked Randy as a person and he did do some amazing things. But like, over the course of seven years, did you get your bang for the buck in terms of how often he was on the field? Probably not, Jalen Smith, did it work out the way you wanted it to? Definitely not? Kelvin Joseph, You're already feeling not wonderful about it, and now this and like, for as smart as they feel when they do this stuff, the

return on investment hasn't been great. Has Let me ask you guys this question, though, is this an across the league thing? Because I would think for a lot of teams the second round is about guys, we have first round potential, but for whatever reason in the second round, and that can be for off the field, that can be for injury concerns like that would seem to me like that would be across the league a trend that

a lot of teams do. Is that the case? And maybe just because we cover the Cowboys, that's what we see from the Cowboys, But really this is every team that deals with this. I think it depends. I mean there's that many guys that have character issues like that at or injury issues or whatever it is. Right, Yeah, again, I say it all the time. It's about stealing value, and that's what they're trying to do. They try to steal the value of a really good player that doesn't

look like a second round pick. But there's probably half the league that's like, we're not messing with this guy. And honestly, if you read some of the stuff from their reports, from their internal reports, you would have never drafted him. So like the Cowboys, they are fully aware of everything. They're just like, we feel like he can

be a better player than that. What would you say when you look at it all those players that have come in with some kind of issues and other Cowboys decided to take a risk and bet on them, what would you say, be like the percentage success rate of situations like this? I just think I laid out all the ones that that have happened since I've been here, right, I mean since you've been here? Yeah? Well, I mean

are we being are we being a little bit? Like if you go back and look the last several second round picks. Not all of them fit in that category. Most of them don't fit in that category of either injured or off the field concerns. Yeah, Kelvin Joseph, Treyvon Diggs, Triston Hill, Kelvin Joseph does right, Yes, Yeah, Okay, I'm naming all the second round picks, and I'm like, not

all of them fall in that category. You know, Tristan Hill, Connor Williams, Like, these are not guys that you that you say fell for a reason other than just they were second round pick. I want to I want to be clear. Tristan came with no like legal concerns, but there were definitely questions about his maturity and his coachability, which again which Rod Marinelli made a big deal about, like I'll get it out of him. But is that

most like? Is that a lot of second round picks to where there are reasons why they're in a second round and it may not be because of play. It maybe because there's another thing that's in their character that's just not right. Every second round pick there is a reason why they're not a first round pick. And you could say that pretty much about every round, two or three rounds and everybody you just named, I mean Trey

Von Diggs. I mean, he's not going to be able to cover that well because all of his guys around him are making the plays at Alabama. He's not the one really making it plays, okay, which is wrong. I mean, say Connor Williams, He's gonna have to make this transition to guard and Canny do it. So there's a reason why every second round pick. And some of it's off the field, some of its stuff. That's my point. You're always trying to steal value. You know, you're just thinking

I can handle it. But I think I mean the Cowboys. So again, in the time I've been here, Jalen is probably the biggest one. People just didn't know if he was going to play again. Kelvin no legal issues, but sort of what we talked about it just like this is a guy that you never know when you're gonna yeah, you're gonna get you might get a phone call about this guy. Kelvin Yeah, or sam Is or Kelvin Kelvin oh Kell Yeah. And then in between that, Um, who

am I blanking on me? R Randy? Yeah, Randy. I would put two behind Jalen and then how would you put Sam. I don't know, but those those are the four. Those are the four. Yeah. In the last how many years? Greg Gregory was what eight years? Seven years ago? Yeah, I mean before that, I just know, was it twenty eleven? I mean it was like Bruce Carter, you know, the

guy that had torn acl and Sean counts as a hit. Yeah, although Sean was not like the way they're structured and the way they do it, like, Sean's not a Will guy if you want to break it up into eras or whatever, like Will didn't run that draft. Um. Yeah, yeah, I mean no, they've they've hit. Sean's definitely a hit in my book. Yeah, no, in anybody's book, he's a hit. Um. But yeah, just recently it hasn't worked out as well as you would you would have hoped, considering how willing

they are to do it. And obviously the story is still to be written on Sam's still to be written on Kelvin Joseph, Like, we don't know about them just yet. Obviously, you know there are things that you that you're concerned about, but they hasn't been written yet. There were there were off field character concerns about Micah and he has been nothing like, nothing of that sort has really followed him in his NFL career at this point. He's been a model NFL player as far as I'm aware. All Right,

let's move on. Let's go to the third round. A pick that I think across the board everywhere I've looked and seen people writing or talking about the Cowboys draft, they point to this pick as one of the best, if not the best value pick that the Cowboys got. At the eighty eighth overall pick, they get Jalen Tilbert, wide receiver out of South Alabama. What are your thoughts

on that pick? Nicholas start with you. I think that, you know, he was probably the guy that they had, you know, rated as their best receiver at the time and a player that wanted to draft in the second round. Um, you know, Jerry Jerry wins you know some of these debates, and I think he won that one with Sam Williams. Um. But but Tober was on their board for the second round,

so give him the third. I mean, I think that they're really excited about that, uh, small, smaller school guy, but showed, you know, showed up against you know, some of the better competition at the Senior Bowl that also against like Tennessee. That's what you're looking for. Yeah, I feel that this guy is um. He's gonna be the player that I feel is going to be able to give you the most out of all the draft picks that the Cowbi see liked it, So I'm excited to

see him. He has talent. He based on his position and the current situations that the Cowbis are dealing with at the wide receiver, He's the one that that's gonna be able to contribute right away and I think he will do a good enough job for it to turn out well at least this year. So I'm excited to see him. And that's my favorite one, just as most people that he has been the favorite one in this draft.

There were important voices in the war room that wanted to take him at fifty six, like meaningful people that thought it was a good idea. He's yeah, he's versatile. I just I love his skill set. I think I think he's the most ready made player of anyone they drafted. I'm not saying he's going to take the league over, but I expect him to be a starter. Michael Gallup caught thirty three balls for five hundred and something yards as a rookie. I think he's capable of that type

of contribution right away. So let me ask you, I want to further that question on the fact of him being NFL ready. Is he NFL ready enough to be able to start the season contributing maybe even more than will be will be expected of him in the second half of the season due to the fact that you're probably not gonna have Michael Gallop. Michael Gallup did it as a rookie because they cut Deaz and they signed a bunch of guys that weren't long term answers. Yeah,

I mean I think he can do something. I think he'll be in the starting lineup week one. I mean guessing just of course, we can always be wrong, but I think so. Yeah. I mean we'll see how much how you know, quickly he picks it up, But I think so. I mean, you know, they they this is a guy that they had targeted, they wanted and you know, they wanted Dak to call him to see, you know, and that let them kind of create some chemistry, which I think, you know, they were able to do that.

So that's a good start, and we'll see I mean they don't have a lot of options at receiver. I mean it's gonna be CD and James Washington and you know, I'm talking about a training camp, and he'll get a lot of reps. If it's not told her, it'll be Noah, or we throw Jake Ferguson in there and just go twelve personnel all day. Let's go to Jake Ferguson. He was a fourth round pick, number twenty nine overall tight end.

Do you think he can immediately come in and maybe make them kind of flip their model from last year they were mostly an eleven team to maybe going back to some of the stuff when Jason was here where they did a lot more twelve. Do you think that's possible for him in his rookie year. I hope he doesn't flip their philosophy as a team. I think receiver is still a strength of vault of this when it's all said and done. But I mean early in the season,

let's say, before Gallup is back. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't win the backup job, and I don't know if he will. But again, like Nick said this about Tyler Smith, like I don't care what they say, I think they tilted their board toward their needs, and that's fine if you're right, But it was I think it was Jake Ferguson at one twenty nine all day. Once some of the other tight ends got taken. I think

they had interest in Trey McBride at fifty six. He got taken before they picked anyway, so it didn't matter. They really liked Kadotton out of Washington. He was the first pick of the fourth round, and like, from that point on, I think they were like, this is our guy. It's Jake Ferguson, so to target him and really like, I don't even think they debated that pick the way that they debated the Sam Williams pick or whatever. And so yeah, that puts a certain degree of expectation that

he can play meaningful snaps as a rookie. Was that also maybe because I like, as you said in the second round with Sam Williams, was it at a point in the draft where all those tight ends that they liked, we're starting to come off the board and they were down to, hey, we gotta get this guy here because we've already missed on two others that we really liked,

and that's why there wasn't a debate. Maybe yeah, I think there was a some talk about trading back into the third round to get to getting a guy maybe Oden or Rucker, and then Rucker went off the board and then Otten went early in the fourth on the next day, So uh yeah, at that point you have to get you know, you get what you want. But but they you know, the thing about it is is what they need. That backup tight end has to be a blocker. I mean, and he has to be a

guy you could play on the line. And I would hope being at Wisconsin, I would hope that that that's you know, they run the ball a lot. He gets on the field. It's a first team All Big Ten. So if your first team All Big Ten, you're obviously getting your stats, but you're on the field a lot because they're running the football. So he's doing that. We're showing blocking. Yeah no, we're just we're not showing the blocking, but we're showing him kind of catching passes. But that

was obviously pretty good. Yeah. That was actually the first thing I thought about with any tight end prospect was I'm Kenny block because that's been the thing I think they've missed more than anything else at the tight end position, probably going back to when Martellis Bennett was here. Like, I don't know that they've had a really good blocking tight end in a long time, and I really think that's necessary for them. They're gonna get their running game going.

Colleges don't put out blocking tight ends the way that they used to, but it's like fullbacks, right. If I'm looking for something to be optimistic about, this, dude's coming out of one of the like three or four programs that really still does ask their tight ends to do that. I mean Wisconsin Power Eye run the ball down their throats. So again, like I hate to say, Ready made about a fourth round pick, but I would hope he knows how to do a lot of the stuff that they

would ask of him as the second tight end. And you're not asking to tight end to be a dominating blocker. You're asking a tight end to be a getting the way blocker. Are willing getting the way blocker? Who I would love it if position his body? Yeah, But I just don't think that's like you said, they're not creating those guys. They're not developing those guys in college. These

days buying large. If you can get someone who's willing and knows how to position his body in the right way to just create creases and to be able to maintain where they are, I think that that's all you really need. You don't need somebody's getting pancakes. Some of the scouting reports that I've read, I mean, some of the things that they highlighted on there was just that he's a decent, pretty good blocker. And after I started

watching some of the highlights too. He might not be the guy that just holds up the guy there forever or anything like that, but he will buy you those extra seconds that you might definitely need on a play. So at least that's a positive and something to look forward to this year at the tight end position, I'm just watching him there. Absolutely, he has a good size

to got some Witten to him at the end. I'm talking about his career Witten in the way that like there's not a lot of there's not a lot of like yards after the contact, you know what I mean, Like he's not breaking a lot of tackles kind of goes down right then, and his blocking is kind of a in the way type of blocker but I mean, you know, that's not the that's not the worst comparison you could have. Well, yeah, I didn't think Jason was a great blocker, but at the height of his career,

I thought he was a very effective blocker. Um, And if you can get again, if you can get somebody who's effective at it, that's really the key. I bet I bet he probably gets other than Tyler Smith, I bet he probably gets the most snaps of anybody on the tiber. That'll be close. That'll be close. And if Tilbert helps you on special teams like a punt returner, then maybe maybe Tilbur and then Devin Harper. I think it's also gonna get a lot of snaps. All Right,

we're gonna take our final break. We're gonna come back. We're gonna talk about those last few picks Bland, Clark, Ridgeway, and Harper. Uh and then just kind of get some overall thoughts on the draft from these guys when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Hi, I'm Clint Tillison with man, I'm Jay nova Check and we're both with the official tractor provider of the Dallas Cowboys. So if you need a tractor to bail some hay, I'm more to cut some grass or a gator to

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Welcome Back. Final segment of the break left in s WBC Mortgage Studios at the Star, and we got to the first of four or fifth round picks when we talked about Matt we let's go, let's talk about those other three picks, and none of them to Dave Chagrin was a kicker. But my chagrin went out the window when I saw what Cleveland did. I mean, they drafted kid York ahead of Jake Ferguson. I'm fourth rounds too soon for me. I just yea, So I felt okay about that, and then the rest of them fell out

of the draft. I still would have liked them to get one. Just you know, I would have drafted York. I mean, how can you argue with the strategy when they had their I mean, Dicker went. Dicker went an undrafted free agency like everybody else. You didn't get it. You didn't get him. I don't know if they would try. I mean they didn't want yea, maybe they didn't want to get him. Maybe they want to try. I heard I would have loved to have him get some kicker

to bring just to compete. They brought in one that was undrafted, did the Gary Bay. I'm not telling you. I'm not telling you that he's the truth or that you have to trust it. But I heard reliably that Jonathan Garabay is the one that John Fossil wanted, Like, that's the guy he liked. Just telling you, I'm just

telling you, he's just telling you. Sixteen fifteen out of sixteen inside of fifty perfect inside of fifty fifteen, six fifteen out of sixteen on the season, fourteen out of fourteen inside of fifty right, and he hit a sixty two yarder to win the game. And have you ever been to Lobbick No, Twindy, don't think I ever will Swindy. I heard Fossil went to lobby You loved him. Yeah, that'sn't worked out again? Six or two yards to win the gate. Look, look, I'm four and a half and

you know to win it. Yeah, I'm not gonna argue that. I mean, but but I will say he's only I want him my guy. Okay, your guy, Your guy went to a team that has a Pro Bowl kicker. I know understand that kicking competitions are weird. Wondering why and that that said to me, the Cowboys and a lot of other teams probably weren't trying to get him, because if you go somewhere like that, you're probably like, yeah,

I'm probably not gonna make the team. But it's weird with kickers though, like because you're even when you're on another team, you're auditioning for another team's job, and they have Matt Gay he's a pro bowler, Dicker's probably gonna get a lot of run in the preseason, and if he does a good job, he could wind up somewhere else. Like it seems counterintuitive, but I I sort of get

it in a weird way. I just think I would have thought that he would try to look for a team with there's at least less of a of a like dominant guy there, and then you might have a chance of not having to go audition for somebody else. You literally stay where you are. But who knows, I mean, that might have been the only opportunity he had. Who knows. I was gonna say, like, it's it's weird, man, because a great example is Mattterraza, the San Diego State punter.

People call him punk God. Yeah, he was the third punter drafted and outsiders are like, what the hell's going on? Why doesn't anybody want this guy? And meanwhile the NFL is like, we're good. They're like, he's got a great leg, that's awesome. He outkicks his coverage all the time. His directional punting isn't amazing. We like these other guys better because they do what we ask him to. I don't give a damn if you punt it ninety yards. If you give the punt returner fifteen yards of free space

to return the ball, yeah, he's wild thing. And so you know, maybe it could be a similar situation with a guy like Dicker, where the John Fossils of the world are like, I don't like his mechanics. I like this other guy better. Not saying they're right, ye, not saying they're right. All right, let's talk about these three fifth round picks. You got Deron Bland of cornerback. You've got Damon Clark, a linebacker that a lot of people

really love the pick. And you got John Ridgeway, who dave I just the way y'all were going on on the draft show, like I was like, y'all are in love with this dude, because his interview was really good. If you hadn't heard, he probably ought to go back and listen to a good interview. Talk to me about those fifth round picks. I didn't you know, I'm on the Draft show, but I'm very open about the fact,

like I don't watch five hundred players. I didn't know anything about John Ridgeway other than that he went to Arkansas and was a big guy and he got on the with us. He blew my socks off. Man. He's just he's like, you think I played with an edge in college, Wait till I'm in the league. And then I was like, how do you like, you know, tell us a little bit about your game. He's like, I'm just trying to get out there and break some necks and hit some people. I was like, okay, well, if

you play like you talk, this is awesome. Like I don't not only like I'm out because two picks ago, we just drafted a guy neck injuries and y'all both were at the Senior Bowl. So what was going on? Yeah for Senior Bowl? Yeah, yeah, this guy. Nick? You, I mean, you obviously watched Arkansas a lot of Arkansaft football. What did you think of Ridgeway four or five players

that I remember. I mean, something's got to give here, you know, he's not that good of a player or Arkansas's defensive line coaches needed to be playing this guy a little bit more. He didn't stand out too much much to me. And like you said, watch every game, there's a few plays here and there. But then by the way, they were drafted for traits. When they get to this point, it's not so much about necessarily production as much as traits. Isn't this dominant player in college

that Yeah, we're watching some plates. I do remember game in Texas, Yeah, I do remember. I remember that this was his first game he played. They won, Oh they won? Yeah, yeah, But I mean, you know he plays definitely with the nattitude. Yeah he has at same play, same play, But that's okay. I remember this was because of the first game of the season, he had like a pendicitis, so he didn't play. So everybody, you know, was like, there's Ridgeway, there's Ridgeway.

You know, this is the first game he'd play. He was a transfer from Western Illinois, one of the Illinois Southern Illinois maybe yeah, he got one in every direction. Yep, yeah. So the east one was from Romo. The west one was a guy named we drafted the third round pick, remember him, Western Illinois linebacker Illinois State. I'm sorry, Illinois State got six six three twenty. I don't. We didn't talk about that at the jump, but pretty much everybody

they drafted as a big boy. Yeah, and in a lot of cases with a nasty attitude, which I think was done on on design. Yeah. Absolutely, And we talked. We talked about that weeks leading up to the draft that there was a lot of thoughts around this building that they needed to get tougher. You need to get a little mean or get a little more attitude and uh.

And so it wasn't a shock when when you started reading about all the guys they were drafting and in their bios it said things like considered to be a mean player. Like I think that was by design. I think cowboys were looking for a little meanness, a little toughness. Um good rest itself. Oh no, was he gonna say When he gets up and does his little like celebration thing,

it reminds me of Antone Woods. It's funny it is he does the exact same thing like he has but I was gonna say one thing that this surprised me. I guess I shouldn't have been expecting that, but for some reason, I was a little surprised to see how many players they drafted on the defensive side of the ball, like I was expecting to see a more on the offense. But also surprising was the fact that they did not make any traits We've been talking about them trading up

or doing whatever. They kept all their picks, all of their positions overall picks, and I think they had a few targets in mind in a few spots, and those didn't materialize, like tight End in the third round being one of them. I think the guys that they really liked didn't fall far enough the first round. Prospects that they were really in love with the play had opportunity

to trade back in the first round. That was an interesting one, and mainly because of the player that the team was trying to get up to get in Tennessee, was trying to get Tyler Smith. Yea, so yeah, And

then I think I'm like fighting off a sneeze. I'm sorry, when you get to this point where you have five or four fifth round picks, excuse me, Steven said, it is like their grades were really well favored starting in like the fourth round going through there, and I think they were just like, why not pick four of these guys that we have really good grades on and hopefully we'll hit on at least a couple of them. Which

I don't mind that strategy at all. That's why I don't have super strong opinions about any of the Day three guys, because you're just throwing darts, and the more picks you make, I think the more likely it is one of them will be a good player. Your guy. To Moan Clark, they got in the fifth round one hundred and seventy sixth overall in this tape that Dean Clark. Oh, yeah, no doubt, because the thing about him is everybody, I think across the board everybody believes this guy's way better

than a fifth round pick. But because he had to have surgery on his spine here back in March, I think there are a lot of teams had obviously allowed him to slide down their board. Do you think this was a good investment for the Cowboys? I think from a value standpoint that this is the best pick that they made. Just because there's no risk. I mean, if this doesn't work out, it's a fifth round pick, it's

go look at their history with fifth round picks. It's fine, But this guy should have gone in the top one hundred. I think I think, if healthy, he would have been drafted higher than Jabril Cox was last year. Um, so give me. I know everybody says, like, you know, top one hundred. So is this a guy that could have been a late first round? Is he a guy that's more like a second round? Is this a guy that's

really more a third round? I peg his range somewhere between fifty and eighty, and there's I mean, teams feel differently about different guys. There's no real way to know late second, early third, second or third, Yeah, second or third round pick. I really believe that he's a tackling machine. He had one hundred and thirty five tackles last year. He's that what he does best. Yes, he does like

I mean, he doesn't miss tackles or he didn't. The funny which, just as a biased LSU fan, it was so much fun watching his growth because most guys that come into LSU are highly recruited and through two oh they just are I mean, it's the same thing at Texas And he didn't really hit that ceiling his first like three years, and you were like, Okay, I guess this Damon Clark is just a guy. And then in twenty twenty one he just hit his stride and became

that dude. Uh there's some pass rush element to his game. He had six sacks last year. He literally he sacked there in him twice to win the game. Last year, two plays in a row. He's like, I'm ending this game. I don't care. I'm going to get this guy. Um. Coverage is not his forte but he's not. But like, yeah, yeah, yeah he did do this down the field. No, I mean he's just an all around good play from what I see from here. His awareness is really off the chart.

I mean like he recognizes where the play is going to be and he goes and gets it. No, yeah, coverage is not his forte as he makes an interception twenty five yards down field. But but I guess the you know, it's the elephant in the room, like like, okay, oh, did you see him just like run that guy down? I'm sorry, No, No, that's fine. Were is he? Are? We going to see this guy. If we see this

guy ever, then yeah it's gonna be great. But can he I mean neck fusion surgery on a linebacker that's scary, which but just yeah, just to be blunt about it though, that's that's what makes it such a great pick. Is No, that doesn't make no. But when you spend it. But the way you said is like as if that was he had it last year and he played throughout this this past year. So when you spend when you spend pick thirty four on a guy who might not never

be the same, it's scary. And with all due respect to Damon, it's not scary when it's picked one seventy eight because again, go look through the history or one seventy six, I'm sorry, look through the history of what they've done. Like you odds are you were just going to spend it on a guy that you cut in a year or two anyway, who even if it was healthy, and it's like, oh no, he's not going to play this year. Well, Semi Pohoko did like got a jersey like three times last year. So this is low risk,

very high reward. And if I know anything, he's wearing number eighteen. That means something at LSU. That means that you're like a football first, high character tea leader that the classic like Jason Garrett, right kind of guy. Will McClay told me yesterday he was like, I was blown away by his approach. They met with him at the Senior Bowl and he was like, this dude's just all business like there's no there's not to say he doesn't know how to have fun, but like he's dialed in

on the job. And so if somebody's going to overcome this and come back as good as or better than he was, I feel fine betting on this guy. Yes, yes, I like it. Yeah, So, I mean there is no downside to this pick as far as I'm concerned. The good thing about that too, is when it comes to rehab, No, you can't rush injuries back, especially next you know they're

not cowboys, wouldn't allow you to do that. But you know he's going to be diligent in the work, in the rehab into you know everything it takes to get back and to get back as quickly as you can um and and that's what that's what I like about, especially when you're dealing with an injury you know, are you gonna be dialed in or you're gonna be locked in even though you're not practicing, are you going to be able to to be up to speed? And it

sounds like he would do that. So when it, you know, comes time for him to play, he should be ready because if football really matters to him, he'll make sure that he does that. We heard Stephen Jones say that that you can't they don't completely count out the fact that he could play this year. You guys buying that. I buy that it's possible, but I don't know how likely it is because again, like so the timetable is six months, which suggests that he could be ready by

like November or December. But then you think a guy that no camp, no no, no, OTA's no training camp,

no getting your feet wet. And that's also the time of the year where if things are going the way that you hope they are, that you're sort of trying to gear up and get ready for big boy football, which maybe he could come in and give you the shot, give you a shot in the arm, or maybe you're like or maybe just a special teams guy, give you a little support on special right, Yeah, you don't have to close the door right now, So you don't have to close the door. But I'm not setting super high

expectations for year one. Everything I just said about it making sure he's you know, he's locked in and all that. Like if you just said you're out of football this year, maybe he won't be that way. Let's just see, let's see what happened. Yeah, he seems like he would be the type to be like he's like the hell I am. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, you know, they said the same thing about Jalen Smith.

If you remember, they didn't close the door on Jalen Smith playing year when everybody, every everybody else was like, he's not playing this year for Jerry didn't do that. Tell me about durn Bland because he's a guy that um, as you started kind of looking for information, there wasn't a lot of information out there about him, but he was taken in the fifth round one hundred and sixty seven. Overall, What are your thoughts on darn Bland cornerback? He fits

the type, has long arms. I've seen his tape, I mean haven't seen much, but one thing that did stand out to me was how freaking long his arms are. Like, it's not your fro. Like you know those stinky hands that you little kids play with, It's like they just extend and are able to. He just has a really great reach. So that's about the only thing I really noticed because I couldn't find much about him. But yeah, you think that white tape makes it look longer, you know,

the tape on the back of his arms. I mean, no, I like I like that play right there a lot, because you know, he's getting turned and he recognizes the ball at the same time. A lot of times when you getting turned, you're you're just trying to make sure you stay with the guy. Um. But but you know what I like about him, and you know, Dave, they probably studied him more or talked about him a lot more. But what I like about him is is that he's

a big, physical guy. He's also a track guy. He's run he's a long jump and a and a sprinter. So I mean like he's a he's a track guy type. He's just an athlete. But no, I mean you have to like the skills that you see there. They had their eye on him for a while. He was a thirty visit guy. I think obvious. I mean, dan Quinn obviously really likes him, or else you don't draft him. I just I think you talk to her, you talk about the traits like good size, good athleticism, good measurables.

Is he score off of this play? Yeah, this is one of the greatest highlights I've ever seen. It's a really good turn. Yeah. You think about everything that happened on that play. He probably ran forty yards just to chase and get the interception in range traffic, a few broken tackles. Okay, I have I have a backup kick

returner here with Umny. I was gonna say, maybe he can be a return man, right, Seriously, that's the heck of a play because you get that interception a lot of times and you're like, okay, let go out of bounce. But he's like, so I can celebrate. Yeah, I love

the idea. I mean, there might not be a position on the team where there's less pressure to contribute right away, at least as long as we're assuming Calvin Joseph is going to be around, which I am right now, then you're like automatically sixth on the depth chart, and this can be a year. You know, dan Quinn's probably gonna just try to mold you and contribute on special teams. Like I don't see a huge game. I don't see a huge defensive role for this guy right away. But

the traits give you a real chance to grow. Absolutely, a lot of people are listening to us. They listen, you know that they're not watching the video, they're just uh listening to the audio only. What game was that that he intercepted that ball? And do you know it was a blue team and he plays for Fresno. I was gonna guess Air Force, but yeah, Boise State, Okay, that was That was Fresno versus Boise Probably a ninety nine hundred yard interceptor journey. That was a heck of

a play. Yeah, all right, we appreciate you, guys, Joannis. We'll be back next week. Next week we'll get into a little more big picture of no love for Devin Harper. Hunh, I want to tell me real quick about Devin Harper. I'll tell I'm stealing this from Nick's thing yesterday. Like, I mean, that's a guy that can play a lot of special teams for you. Probably right away he's probably is he thirty years old? Yet he like twenty five he's like, he was at Oklahoma State for at least

six years. He redshirted, got four, got us COVID year, so he was there for six years. And so he's he's twenty four. He's like the super super senior. But but he runs a four four and he's a he's a he's a running hit type of guy. That's what Will McClay told me. He's like, this guy runs, he hits and last year get eleven tackles for loss on defense. That's a lot of it. That's a lot. Yeah, So that's just last year alone. So he he's he gonna getting me burned at linebacker this year, you think, yeah,

I think so. I mean, I think that's why they took another linebacker, knowing that Demon Clark's not gonna be able to play right now. He'll play some backup linebacker

but play special teams. I feel a lot more confident, which I mean, they protect their draft picks anyway, but for being pick one ninety three, I feel more confident than usual that he would make the team because Demon Clark's a pup guy for sure, and um, and they don't have a ton of like special teams type of guys on their linebacker course, so never like write it in sharpie. But for being pick one ninety three, I think he's got a very clear path to the active roster. YEA,

all right, we appreciate you guys. Jonas back next week. We'll get into some big picture stuff around this draft, from what it means holes that may still exist that they may need to fill. Talk about that next week till they for Nick Eatman, Dave Helmont, and Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eagleson. This has been the Break Alive on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.