Cowboys Break: Over Or Under?

We're alive from the virtual s WBC Mortgage studios in each of our homes around the Metroplex. And today we got a special guest joining us. Nick out here with us, but we got Isaiah stand Back currently of another podcast talking Cowboys that I'm sure you guys have hopefully been checking out. But Isaiah, great to have you on. We appreciate you joining us. We also got my normal crew here, Amber Garcia, David Hellman. We got a lot to talk about today, and this is gonna be our final show

of the off season this year. We're gonna take a little hiatus as we do every off season, in the month of June and heading into July, and then we'll kick things back up late July when we get into training camp. How's everybody doing today? Doing good, Bro, I'm goodat Derek, good to see you. You too, Man, you too so out the last first time I've seen you actually got to see you last week in person, which was different. Dave and I both are at a protest in downtown, so I got an opportunity to spend a

little time with Dave. And of course we were, you know, trying to keep your distance as we should right now, but it was still a good, good opportunity to see you. I've gotten really good at like the elbow hello, you know, like, hey, how's it going? Yeah, yeah, I think we all have at this point. Let's let's jump right in. Um it's it's I'll start with with a topic that seems to

be something that's kind of kind of fun. I guess at this point, as long as we've all been quarantined, it's it's great news when we start hearing that that football is showing signs of life. And what we heard as of last Friday is that coaches are now being

allowed back at the building. So the coaches are now back at the Star Coach McCarthy is in this in the building, and the question I have for you guys is how much do you think that their inability to be in the building all this time has affected their ability to not only get off to a good start as far as understanding and knowing the environment, but also

just growing chemistry between the coaching staff. It's it's very different, and you've got to glass between you and you're talking via WebEx, you're talking on phone, as opposed to being able to have contact with one another at least, even if it's at a distance, being able to see people's faces as you're talking to me to them. How much do you think that's affecting this coaching staff, which is

a brand new coaching staff. Let's start with you guys. Yeah, yeah, I think it's probably going to afect these guys a little bit over But these guys are professionals. I mean, this is probably one of the more experienced coaching staffs around the league, how I have to say, And you know, these guys would be perfectly fine, especially with what coach

McCarthy has done over the last year. Right, He's been working with primarily a majority of these guys already, so they're very familiar with themselves, with each with each other, and it's pretty much just a surrounding sting at this point, right. I think more so than anything, it's going to be affect in terms of getting in front of these guys face to face, being able to coach them, you know, man to man, instead of just having to worry about

this virtual walls. As you just mentioned Amber, Well, like he said, I mean, the good thing about this coaching staff is that they are experienced. You know that these are guys that have many, many years of experience and now your usual cowboys staff of new hires that are basically brand new in the job. So that's good now.

As far as being in person, yes, obviously that's going to help anytime you're trying to communicate with somebody, but it's it's still interesting because I know there's a certain amount of people that are only allowed back in the building. You still have to keep your distance, so there's still a lot of things that a lot of protocol that are taking place, so you still not really getting that full long contact and having a bunch of people together in one same room. So still I think that they're

still gonna be doing a lot of virtual things. I still don't know how all these protests and everything that's going on in the country is going to affect the whole virus and spreading it back up again, and how that's going to play a role into everything that we continue doing in the country and in the NFL. And just is that gonna mess up Phase one? I don't know. Well, only TWN will tell. But the good thing is experienced here, Dave. I'm actually I'm totally with Isaiah, like, there's a bunch

of stuff to be worried about. You know, they don't have a lot of, you know, time with their players, they don't have any time on grass. They don't one hundred percent know what they're working with. I mean, at this point in a regular year, these coaches would have had you know, ten, eleven, twelve practices. They don't have that. But your question the coaching staff itself, I'm not worried about that at all. And that's that's a benefit of

what Mike McCarthy did, right. I Mean, he he basically hired a bunch of guys, He's worked with a lot. He knows Joe Philbin really well, he knows Mike Nolan really well, Jim tom Sula, they go way back. Al Harris played for him, the defensive backs coach. There's a lot of you know, familiarity on this coaching staff. And on top of that, we can all attest these guys were in the building constantly from the day they got

hired until the day everything shut down. You know, before they even had places to live in Dallas, they were living in the hotel and spending eight, ten, twelve hours at the Star every day or at least two months. So I'm not remotely worried about that. I'm just worried about, you know, how that pertains to their work with the players who they obviously have not seen. Okay, so let's move into something that maybe will cause a little bit

more trepidation. Training camp now has been or the NFL reportedly has told teams that they will be required to have their training camps at their home facilities, which means for the first time in a very very long time. I can't recall a time since I've been with the Cowboys in twenty years that we haven't had at least

part of training camp in another location. So my question for you guys is how much does the idea of them being in Frisco and not picking up the team, moving them to California where they're isolated from their families, their friends, their normal new teams and can only think football and only do football twenty four seven. How much do you think that affects the team chemistry, especially coming off a situation where as you said, Dave, they have not been on grass, they've not been working out in

the off season as they normally do. How much do you think that affects him in Dave, I'll start with you. I can think of I can go both ways, honestly, because I mean being at your facility. I don't buy it because going on the road for training camp is it's an old it's outdated. At this point, the Cowboys are one of ten teams in the NFL that travels for training camp. The vast majority of teams in the league stay at their facility, and you know if they if they sequester in a hotel, they do it for

like half of camp if that. And it doesn't seem to bother anybody. Having said that, cramming everything that you need to do for a training camp into the facility sounds difficult. Obviously, you know, you only have one outdoor field and it's only going to be tenable to practice on it early in the morning or late in the evening, Like you can't go out there at two o'clock in the afternoon in Dallas the way that you can in Oxnard, California.

On top of that, the Star it's great, like it is phenomenal, it's well built, it's state of the art, but it's not really meant for ninety players. That locker room gets crowded during training camp, like they have overflow locker rooms for the rookies. They got guys doubling up on each other, and that's with no social distancing guidelines, like it is cramped during training camp at the Star

when everything's normal. So now you're factoring in six feet in distance and you gotta go a certain way down the hallway to be safe, and that just it sounds like a logistical nightmare to me, Isaiah, as a guy that's a former player who's had some experience with this and knowing the benefits probably of both sides of staying at your facility because you've played with other teams and then also traveling, do you think there are advantages one way or the other, staying at home or going on

the road for training camp. Yeah. I think the primary reason why most coaches who you know, who are at least the team coaches there are still deciding to go off site with your with your team teams you'd like to do so, it is because they like to make them uncomfortable. Training camp is supposed to be uncomfortable. Training camp is supposed to be the part, the part that you dislike most. Right, Most guys retire because they don't want to go back to training camp, right. So, I

mean that's that's what the coaches like. They want to make you uncomfortable. They want to put you in that situation where you're having to worry about all those things. Right, I can't see my family, I can't go do what I want to do. I can't just hop in my car and head, you know, head to grab something to eat. Like. They want that environment because they want you to focus on ball, right for those four to six weeks whatever it is now, right, they want you focus on ball.

And you know, I don't think it's as big as a deal as as most people are prayer probably presenting right now. I was when I was with the Cowboys. I went to San Antonio, I went to Oxnard, Right, I went to both of those places, So I'm familiar with how that works. But it's not that big of a deal. Right at the end of the day, I think it's more of a benefit to be on site at your facility, especially with this new regime. Right, you got to hold new coaching staff, right, you got to

you had a handful of new players right there. They're

coming in. You need as much familiarity as possible in terms of guys they're in their off time, right, my availability, my ability to be able to call my massage therapists, to be able to go to get some extra treatment, and you know, with my person to my choice, aside from the amazing training staff that the Cowboys have, you know, those things matter, right, and those things are gonna help, especially as I started talking about like soft tissue injuries

that are going to present themselves in the first part of training camp. Those things are gonna happen. So having access to your people is important. In terms of families, families were always at training camp, right, you don't have much time to be spending with your time with your family. You know, there's FaceTime. There's all these other ways in which you can talk to your FAMI, but those are those are some long days now, I mean those are like five thirty am to like eleven pm days, so

you're not missing much. You're not missing much. So it's awesome that they're on site. I was hoping that they that they were going to choose to do so. Anyways, I'm glad that the league mandated it. But they have literally the best facility probably in the whole league, So I'm glad they're here. Amber. Well, Derek, I see that you did not listen to our show last week when you were out. You did not go back and play

and listen to it because we talked about it. But you know what, now that that they made that we started, as I remember I told you before we started this, is that like this is ample great support to your own show. Derek. No, But now that I was thinking about it, you know what, like good thing is that Decays don't have Jason Garrett back because Mike McCarthy he's not used to hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Mike McCarthy is just not used to having

the luxury of going to ox Star California. So it's not something that he's like now having to come back and say, Man, how am I gonna do this? This is bringing you to him anyways, So I don't think it should be too bad for them honesty, aside from the heat and all that. But when we're at training camp a body Knock Star, you know, they still have

the team divided separately onto two fields. It's gonna suck for us because back then we can just easily just decide why we look at but now we'll get how to be moving around depending on who we're wanting to look, whether go outside or come back inside. So that's gonna be tricky for us as far as the media and wanting to cover everything that is happening on the field during training camp. But in general, I honestly don't think

it's gonna be as as bad as I originally thought. Okay, let's as you actually mentioned a little something about soft tissue injuries and I want to real quick get some opinions on that. I mean, what makes you think that that's going to be something that people can expect maybe to see more and how concerned are you about that? Yeah? So I mean as a professional athlete, You're going to do everything possible to prepare to the best of your ability. Right,

So guys are training like crazy. They have their trainers, they have their programs that they're going through. They're doing the offseason training program. That's awesome, However, it's not real ball, right. So the first time that these guys touched the field, they're going they're going to be literally up against another person pressing against them. Two hundred fifty pound man, three hundred pound man, they're gonna be pressing against these guys, right.

So when you start doing that, when you start hitting different angles, your your body is not used to that. They hasn't done it in a while, So you're going to be subject to those injuries. You're gonna be subject to those those those initial flavor ups until your body is used to that tension, to your bodies used to that kind of resistance. Um, it's just it's just a

part of the game. It's just unfortunately these guys don't have the time to really come back from those things right now, because if any soft tissue injury that there is, or any injuries in general that we have, is going to be detrimental to us. Because there's just not enough time to get back in terms for the season. Dave, I'll concerned to you that. I mean, yes, that's it's

obviously very concerning. Again, absolutely agreed, Like you can't underestimate how how much these guys lose by not having a traditional offseason program. And it's funny because that was the way it was for you know, the first thirty forty years of NFL history. I mean, you know, back in the sixties, seventies, eighties, these guys didn't have these intens offseason programs. But that's how these guys have been conditioned all the way up from you know, junior high and

high school ball. So I think it is something they're gonna have to watch out for. Although you know NFL teams already do this where they kind of ease guys in with non contact stuff. I would imagine we're going to see more of that. Not to go down a wormhole, but like what concerns me more is how you do

this and maintain COVID protocols. You know, whether it's getting guys tested, making sure they're not exposing themselves to people that could have symptoms, you know, whether that's people in their own family or the people that they encounter on a regular basis. I mean, our fans going to be allowed to be part of this. You're gonna have players like signing autographs with people that they don't know where

they've been. That's the stuff that gets back, you know, that makes me question how all of this is going to work. Is especially you know, we talked about Oxnard. It's kind of easy to self contain. But if these guys are going home to their you know, kids who have been at school, or you know, their wives and girlfriends have been out doing what running errands all day? Like, who knows that. I'm just very curious about how you

mitigate the risks of spreading the virus. Yeah, I think I think most most people need to know that when you go to camp, right, So when you go off site, you're in a hotel, right, or you're in some kind of dorm, right. And even when you're on site, even when you're doing camp in your own city at your facilities, you're still in in a hotel, right, They're still locking

you up. And I think even with this COVID stuff, usually you go like four weeks and then at the last two or three weeks of camp, you get to go home early. I don't see these guys going home early, right, I see these guys being locked up in a hotel all day or not all that they're gonna be at practice all day. Then they'll probably just transition straight into the omni or whatever else is close at the facility,

and they will not be allowed to go home. Their families will be able to kind of practice every so often, I'm sure, but that's gonna be it, man, basically use

this virtual virtual visiting. Yeah, I mean, it'll be very interesting to see how the Cowboys and really every team adapts to this new reality, which is, you know, they do have to be aware of their players, and you know they're they're probably all kinds of scenarios that are being you know, talked about as far as who's going to get access to players, and how do they keep the players isolated as much as possible, and how do they keep the players from from doing having too much

contact with one another because obviously you're going to have the football contact, but um, you know it goes to also I assume you know, you get it's it's it's kind of like what I was saying about Friday when I saw you, Dave, Like, my first inclination was to come over and give you a big hug or adap

you up or something. And it's just not the same, right And and so you get all these guys, ninety guys, and a lot of them know each other and know each other really, really well, and you put them in a room together and haven't seen each other in a while in person, there's gonna be a natural inclination that as time goes on, they're gonna feel more and more comfortable and they're going to forget about the fact they

have to be socially distanced. And so that that's going to be one of the challenges this whole thing is making sure that someone is aware and making sure the players continuously aware that they have to be socially distanced and don't get so comfortable where you break down all those things that that are the things that you're supposed

to do. We're gonna check out whatever. I was just gonna say that these locker rooms aren't dirty to begin with, So imagine I mean imagine now when there's a virus virus going around and then just using different things like in the restroom when they go shower. I guess there're gonna be someone that just comes wife's everything down after each years or what's gonna happen. There are a lot of a lot of bottles and things like that. I've

just kind of get passed around a lot. So it's definitely gonna be interesting to see how they handle the whole situation. Yeah, I'm pretty sure bet that the NFL will have protocols that they stipulate across every team that teams will have to do certain things in order to be able to ensure that they're being as a creating an environment that's as safe for the employees including the

players as possible. And so yeah, I think they're they're you know, there's gonna whatever you pay in your in your cleaning bill, it's about to go up because they're going to be more and more people that are going to have to be involved in making sure if things are sterilized as they're being used to ensure that that employees and players are are kept in a safe environment. We're gonna go take our first break when we come back. I have a little game for you guys. They're gonna

do a little over and under. We're gonna have some players and some offensive skill players. I'm gonna throw out some numbers for you guys, and have you tell me whether you think they're gonna be over or under in the twenty twenty season. We'll do that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Dey deal the new apartments big such a great deal. It's okay, just okay. What's not too more? Right about the subway? Well, I bet you don't even notice it after that's my neighbor.

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see mortgage studios in our homes. We're talking a little bit about Cowboys today. It's our final show before we head to our little hiatus that we do every offseason in the month of June. So hopefully, hopefully we've been we've done a good job of being able to keep you guys engaged during this this quarantine. But we'll be taking a little bit bit of a break here and

we'll start back up when training camp begins. Make sure you stay tuned to Dallas Cowboys dot com for more information on dates when training camp will start and when we'll be starting restarting all of our podcasts. So here's what we're gonna do. We got a little game here, it's called over or Under. I'm gonna throw out some

names of different offensive skill positions. I'm gonna throw out some different statistics for each of them, and then I'm gonna give you a particular statistic or a couple of statistics on each player that and then I'll ask you guys, to tell me whether you think it will be over. They'll be over or under that number in the twenty twenty season. Let's mostly get Dak Prescott. Last season, his

numbers were up dramatically with yards to total yards. In seventeen he was at three thousand, three hundred and twenty four yards eighteen three eight hundred and eighty five yards, and last year jumped all the way to four thousand, nine hundred and two passing yards. First question I have for you, guys is what do you think was the biggest difference that you can pinpoint us to whist numbers jumped so much last year from the previous year. Let's

start with you ember biggest difference. I think that having John Kinna honestly helped him a lot, just having a different coach and developing his skills. I think that once they were able to figure out the whole wide receiver group, you know, forget about the whole by community thing that then we're trying now just having a set of wide receivers, this is what we have, this is what we're doing. And then allowing Dad to build that connection with them

and getting comfortable with them helped a lot. As far. I mean, if we're looking at twenty twenty, is it gonna be over under type of stuff. I want to ask you this first, does it have him a deal made or is it playing under the franchise? Well, I'll ask you that question back. Do you think that his deal has anything to do with how he will perform

this year? Well, I think that depending on what the deal ends up being, whether he signs a multi year deal or he plays under the franchise, it's gonna reflect back on how he plays. Because every time we say it all the time, when these guys get a big deal, then that year it's like they don't end up performing at the level that we expect them to perform in

you know. So it's like I think that I want to get my hopes up as far as him just being better, especially under this new coaching staff, and then having again the wide receivers hopefully developing even into something better, you know, Michael Gallop being a better player this year, having Citee Lamb on the team and helping out in that way as well, and Mary Cooper hopefully hopefully becoming a more constant player that can help Dak and as

far as also the tight end position, Blake Jarwin. I do expect him to do a lot better this year because he's been evolving as well. So if all of that is in place, I do expect Dak to be able to play better, and hopefully they can this new coaching staff is able to help him with his skills, have him run more, get out of the pocket, be more more physical, more active. Obviously you don't always want that with a quarterback, but he does have the skill and he can make it happen. Now we need to

see what happens on the pressure moment. I really don't know if it's all because of Dak or the fact that Jason Garrett was directing the team at the time, because a lot of players, lot of people, I mean a lot of fans. When they when you're discussing Nike Prescott, they want to bring back oh Is he's not clutch. He can't play at the last minute of those opposing teams that you need to win the game from, you know. So I just think that your voice, he's gonna be

able to play well this year. I thought I could tell that you disagree with part of that Amblo was saying, So I'll go to you next and talk a little bit about that, specifically from the standpoint of whether the deal will make a difference with regards to how he plays this season. Absolutely, So I'm gonna no no, no disrespect, but I'm gonna tell you to bring it. Let me hear it, Let me hear it. There's two reasons why he bawled out last year. Number one, it was time

to get paid, all right. When it's time to get paid, your game steps up, right. You got a little bit more juice in you, right because you know that you're expecting that check and you have to perform because that is the season that they're gonna look at. They're not gonna look at the seasons before. They're looking at best season leading up to that pay day. So that's a all right. Our b is we were playing from behind a lot, right. We didn't have a great season. We

did not have a great season. Right. The team did not do that well. So when you when you're having to force those points, right, what are you doing. You're unable to run the ball. Right. When you're unable to run the ball, you're unable to control the clock, which means that you're playing for behind, which means you need to throw the rock, right, So it allowed for those greater, those bigger plays that allowed for him to throw the ball substantially more than he did the prior did the

years before pre existing. So those are the two reasons why I let I point to in terms of why he performed that way last year, now in terms of this year and what we can expect that of him this year. To think about somebody like Kirk Cousins, right when, who kept kept playing on dog on franchise tags. Right, so you're gonna ball out if he's on a franchise tag.

He's gonna ball why because guess what, I can't afford to get hurt, right, And I know then again it's just like you're on a contract year again, right, So when it's time to talk money again, I have to ball out. Right, if he is underneath the contract, guess what he's going to show out just because what because I know everybody's looking at me now because they just gave me all this money. But I understood. But with that understood, I think that his numbers go down this year, right,

I think his numbers go down. So as we talk about over Underdee, I think his numbers go down because he doesn't need to do as much. He doesn't need to do as much. He has more people around him, right, he has more weapons than he had last year, and the defense is substantially better than it was last year. So with that understood, these guys are gonna be in a position to be able to run the ball substantially more.

I know we're getting the freaky Ezeki hearing a little bit, but Zeke's gonna his numbers will definitely go up because they were. They'll be trying to control the game and control the clock, and they won't be forced to have to throw the ball even though he does have more weapons. But ye see on real quick to me, forget about stats two minutes, can you hear me? Yeah? So sorry, sorry, sorry, And just wanted to say this to me, forget forget about stacks Like me, I don't look at stats that much.

I really don't care. I just look at the actual performance and the field of the game and how they we're doing in the game. To me, last year, in my own perspective, I don't think that played that well. He wasn't that great in my eyes. So that's why I expect him to be better this year, regardless of the situation. So that's I am saying this opinion based off my own views of every single game and not stats. Screw stats. I want them to win games. He needs

to win freaking games. At the end of two minute warning, two minute warning, you need to make the pass and make it happen. Sober Amber is going to represent the eye test people for us on this show. That's good to know. Like, don't mind what all of these numbers say about how good the quarterback is. I will decide how good he actually is. I'm glad will we've established, but glad no. I completely agree. I completely agree with

Isaiah for whatever it's worth. Um, if Daks with five thousand yards this year, they probably aren't that good of a team, and they weren't that good of a team last year. He's absolutely right. Go look at most of Dak's gaudiest games. They were behind, they fell down. They fell behind by three scores. Against Green Bay, you have to throw your way out of it. They were down whatever it was, twenty four to seven against Buffalo, Chicago built up a big lead. These are all games where

he went over three hundred green Bay. I think he threw for four to forty and the other thing seven times. Last year as a team, the Cowboys failed to average four yards per carry seven times. And that is not an indictment on Zeke Elliott or the Cowboys offensive line. It's an indictment on their coaching staff for being very boring, very uncreative, rushing up the gut on first and ten and second and long all of the time. You know, I'll talk about it till I'm blew in the face.

The Vikings could do nothing with Dak Prescott in that game last year. They could not stop him, and the Cowboys ran on first down seventy eight percent of the time anyway, because their coaches were either bored or scared, I don't know which, but it's unforgivable. Um. And they can't afford to do that. They've got to use their running game more creatively. They got to utilize play action better. Um. But you can do all of that. And like I said, I mean if that, if Dak is flirting with five

thousand yards, then they're not balanced enough to be successful. Um. So I mean, I don't remember the original question. Hopefully it's under Hopefully Dak throws for like forty two hundred. Forty two hundred feels like a sweet spot to me. I like it. All right, So we got we got basically three unders. Is that right, Amber, Were you under as well? No? Said no, I said over because to me, well, it's a it's sorry, just keep going. This is the way. The point is, I don't look at stats. I just

wanted I want to see him play. Well, don't give me stats. He to me can do better this year and be under those stats, you know. So that's the thing. To me, it's like, I think he will be better this year. He might not go over those kinds of stats, but he might be better this year overall better. You don't like my game? Yeah? Yeah? And Amy throws for five hundred yards and we go, we go, you know, thirteen and three. We're good. We're good. Yeah, that's so,

that's so lazy. I'm sorry. Okay, that's okay, all right, Moving on a right, let's go. Let's go to Zeke Elliott. Last year, the stat that stuck out to me was his receptions number. And I remember when he first got here. One of the things that that we were so disappointed in his first year was that they really didn't use him in the passing game. He had thirty two catches his first year twenty six and his second year. By his third year he jumped to seventy seven, and last

year he at fifty four. UM, So my question for you is off that level where he was last year fifty four receptions, do you think they were utilizing him enough in the passing game or do you think they should be doing more there? That's all with you, guys, YEA, yeah, I'll tell you the Yeah. I think I think he falls right and back into the same conversation we just had right in terms of some of the situations that they were forced into, Right, they were forced to throw

the ball to get back into games. And I don't think that you want to be I don't think that you want to talk about Zeke and the mindset that that you want to throw him the ball, right, That's that's not the conversation that you want to have when we're when you're referencing Zeke. You want to be able to do what we did a couple of years ago and just hand the ball to Zeke and just know that hey, he's coming at you down here, and it really doesn't matter what you do on the other side

of the ball. We're going four or five yards a pop. Right, that's the conversation you want with Zeke. You want to take the conversation as far as passing to polar Right, that's the person you want to be talking about. So Ken Zeke catch? Absolutely, should Zeke be catching? You know, seventy passes per year? Heck to the note, that's not what you want. You want him toting that rock. You want him consistently rushing for one hundred yards of a game.

You want the office a linement feeling like their bullies out there and let those other three receivers and been drawing do what they do because we have enough weapons now for guys that can catch the rock. Harmon, Yeah, I'm I mean, if you listen to this show for any length of time, you know that I've whined about Zeke's lack of a role in the passing game for years,

and honestly, a lot of that is creativity. Again going back to the coaches, because Zeke caught seventy seven passes I think in twenty eighteen, like he caught a lot of balls, but it was all it was dump offs and boring stuff like not getting into the open field, not getting downfield, not a very creative way to utilize your running back. Having said all of this, I again agree with Isaiah because I don't want Zeke catching targets that should be going to Ceedee Lamb, Blank Jarwin or

even Tony Follard, Like get get those guys involved. And if you have to put two backs on the field on occasion to make it work, that's fine. I really again, I'll use the term sweet spot. Like for Zeke, I'm thinking between twenty five and thirty five catches is plenty for him, Like, you don't need to take any more targets away from better receiving options. And it's it's not that he's bad, he's a fine receiver, but there are

better receivers who could take those target options. Yeah, Camber, I don't have much to add to what you guys said. I'm right on with you guys. I just think that they do need to do it enough to where it does keep that element for defenses to kind of keep an eye on and be aware that they can do that with Zeke and that he can be utilized that way and just kind of keep defenses on their toes, but with all these other receiving guys, they just find

the right balance for him. And Zeke is such a great runner, and I do want them to utilize him more in the running game together with Tony Poller. So yeah, I think the spot that Dave said, that sweet spot right there kind of works for me as well. Sounds like everybody's on the under on that under fifty four catches for Zeke Elliot. Let's move on to Amari Cooper. In twenty nineteen, it was his best statistical year of

his career in almost every category. He had seventy nine receptions, eleven hundred and eighty nine yards, and he had eight touchdowns. So my question for you guys is can he maintain that type of production after they've added a guy like Ceedee Lamb and by the way, a Michael Gallup who seems to be improving every year. Do you expect him to be able to maintain those numbers in twenty twenty.

Let's start with Dave. So here's the thing. I actually, for our TV show The Blitz a couple of weeks ago, I really looked at the math of like how you can divvy up all of these targets. And I mean over the course of his career, whether it was dead, whether it was a Mari, Dak has done a pretty good job at getting his number one receiver targets. Like it's hard for me to imagine Amar having less than let's say, seventy five eighty catches, and that's not a

lot by number one receiver standards. I get that because you know number one receivers. You know what, Mike Thomas caught like two hundred passes last year. Mike Thomas doesn't have nearly as many options on his offense as as a Mark Cooper does. And that's you know, I'll go with ag for a set because I think people get so fixated on catches. I don't care as long as the offense is producing. And that's what That's what Dak has said the whole time he's been heres, like I

want to throw to the open guy. Well between a Mari gallop now Ceedee Lamb again, Jarwin and then the running backs, somebody's gonna be open all the time. So I don't need a Mari to like catch one hundred balls, but I do think he'll probably you know, it'll be somewhere between seventy five and eighty five, and that's perfectly fine. I don't have a problem with that at all, because if Dak's doing his job the right way, he'll be divvying everything else up among everyone else. Amber Well, I

expect it to be pretty similar to last year. And just because going back to what I remember, all those away games, he was terrible. He just completely disappeared. So if you take that in and you balance it out and say, Okay, now he's playing better on the road, and then now he's not as great at home, you know, that creates some kind of balance there when it comes to his stats. So I expected to be kind of similar if he's able to play better on the road,

all right. You know that actually brings up an interesting point, Isaiah, that I want to ask you, because you came to the NFL as a quarterback, you spend some time at receiver.

I'd got to hear from you specifically on how much can being on the road affect or what are the things that on the road can affect a wide receiver or was this just a situation where just for whatever reason, whether it was just he played better teams that knew how to how to cover him on the road, and I was just half stance, like, what do you what do you attribute all that too as being a guy that's actually played receiver in the NFL? Yeah, And that was just one of those things. It was just one

of those flings. Man. Unfortunately he didn't perform that well on the road. It happens. Some guys don't perform that well at home, right I think. I mean, I remember thinking, I remember the Cowboys not doing so well at home at some point in time. But they want away games, right, So it is what it is. Man. There's there's nothing that people can point to and say, oh, this is why. I'm sure that's something that's in the back of his head.

But at the end of the day, as as an athlete, as a player, you know, hey, I just didn't do that well. I just gotta figure it out, right, I can't have these ups and downs you need. I'd rather be consistent. Didn't have all these spikes, right, these different valleys. So um. But in terms of you know, do we want Coop you know, doing what he did last year? Heck to the no, you don't want him doing well he did last year, right, you don't. He doesn't have

to anymore. Right, Yes, he has a one hundred million dollars, right, but you're paying him one hundred million dollars for those couple plays a game that he actually shows out. You don't need him showing out the whole game, right, you just you don't. He's not Julio. He's not Julio. Let's let's just be real, right, He's not Julio. He's not He's not you know, he's not. He's not Od, he's not any of those guys. Right, So you don't rely you don't want to rely on Coop to be this

this magnificent. Just just you know, a guy who can route up anybody. Coop is a is a D threat, That's what he is. Coop's a D threat, right, and he has that gold ue. He could run an end route, he could run a post, he could run a goal, right, and you want him to be able to continue to do that. And you want to be able to run the ball enough right where those safeties start trying to

creep down. You want to be able to throw the ball to Jar one and CD and gallop enough underneath coverage, right, so those guys start creeping up, and then what you want, you want Coop to have five receptions for like one twenty five in a tub. That's what you want Coop to do, right, And one of those places gonna be a sixty to seventy yard play, right, So four of those other catches you're gonna be you know, within you know, five to six, seven, eight yards. That's what you want

Coop to do. You want him just get those Okay, third down play got you, Third down play got you, and then boom, big play. That's why you pay him one hundred million dollars. You don't need him putting up those numbers like he did last time, because this should be a substantially more well balanced offense than it's ever been. That's kind of what I was let's going to just real quick. It's kind of what I was getting at

is like I can just I can imagine. You know, six weeks into the season, people are like, oh my god, the Cowboys are paying Amari twenty million a year and he's only done this as long as as long as the offense is humming. I don't care. Like you're paying

Amari Cooper, you're paying him to make plays. You're also paying him to open up the field for everybody else, Right, Like, if the opposing defense it's committed to slowing him down and he has a bad day, but Ceedee Lamb or Michael Gallup or both of them are just killing everybody. I don't care. And I feel like people get fixated on the money and feel like you got to have one hundred yard day every week if you're making that much money. I'm sorry about your fantasy football team, but

I do not care. If the offense is balanced and humming, Amari can do whatever the hell he wants to. Yeah, and that's a great point day because we've seen it so many times around here with the Cowboys, and it probably happens all around the league. One player player plays the exact same way, but as soon as that check comes in, fans have a different expectation of them, and I would suspect this year it's probably going to be

that way for for him. If Dad gets a new deal, there's gonna be best believed, they're gonna be different expectations, at least from fans. And the good thing for the Cowboys is that Amari Cooper doesn't see them to be the kind of guy that's affected by what other people think. So, he's not the kind of guy that seems to be deterred there where some guys do get in their head and then they start pressing and they start pushing to get more opportunities because they feel like they gotta quiet

the people that are the detractors. But let's go and take our final break. When we come back, I'll have a well, Dave, I'm sorry, I just Amari. Amari is not that guy. He never has been. A week two last year, they he caught five balls for forty yards. They won easily, and he was the happiest guy in the locker room. Um. And and that's that's exactly what you need. Um. There's only like two receivers in the league who catch ten balls for one hundred yards every week,

and it's like it's Hopkins and Julio. And it's not a big deal if Amary can't match that, I'm not worried about it. And I just thought about the fact that Hopkins got traded for basically a bag of ms. But anyway, let's not get into that bottle break. We'll come back. We'll come back, and we got a few more guys we're gonna talk about cdlaw On, Michael Galla, Blake Jawin, and Tony Polla. We do have when we come back back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com video.

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Welcome back, final segment of the Break. We're live from the virtual SWBC Mortgage studios and we're going through our game of Over and Under. We're talking about the offensive skill position for the Cowboy positions for the Cowboys. We're gonna go to Cede Lamb next. And this last year I looked at Randall Cobb's numbers because obviously he was the third receiver. Last year, CD is projected to be

one of three. Who knows where he'll fall in that line, but Randall Cobb at fifty five receptions, eight hundred twenty eight yards and three touchdowns. My question for you, guys, is this CD good enough right now to step in and be as productive as a veteran like Randall Cobb. Let's start with you guys. Are that's that's a heck of a question right there. Dum is he good enough right now? We don't know, We don't know. Um. College

is one thing. NFL as a whole another beast, right and where we're everybody's projecting him to be right as we possibly taking over that slot position, and that slot position you gotta be. You gotta have enough tenacious um, you know, attitude, gotta have a little nasty to you to be able to go in there and dig out those safeties and hit some linebackers and you know those things or those that willingness is going to open up

opportunities for you. So I am interested and I'm intrigued to see how he performs once he touches the field. Another thing is how well he picks up this offense. Right. There's you know, when you when you have a guy that comes in, if he could pick up the offense, and you have three guys out there that know exactly what every position does, and you can do whatever you want. As an office of coordinator, you're gonna have a field dame, and then you can force guys open. Right, you can

just get guys open. So if he's if he doesn't have that ability to come in and pick that up, then he's going to be limited. So you know, in four or five rounds, right, and then we really don't know how productive he'll be. But um, in terms of talent wise, he has all the skill sets that you need, all the everything, every box that you want to check off for somebody that's going to come in and play that potential role. He has the skills. He's just really a matter of how fast he can really come in

and take on and adapt to this system. One thing I'll say is I'm very interested to see once we get to training camp if the Cowboys use him as exclusively in that slot role as they give in Randall Randall, or if they decide that they're gonna between because by the way, you know, they got Amark Cooper, he knows

how to work in the slot as well. I'm interested to see are they gonna have are they gonna try to create a situation with these receivers where all three can maybe play all three spots and then you're you're sliding guys around. That makes it very, very difficult for defense is to account for guys and to be able to, you know, try with guys and do some of the things that last year they were able to do in some games where they were able to shut Amari Cooper down.

But let's go on, Amber, let's go to you next. Do you think he's going to be able to be as good as Randall Cobb in year one? Well, again, it's hard to tell for rookie in the first year. Obviously we haven't even seen a single practice or anything yet. But one thing that I do think will help him a lot. It's his high, especially at the slop position, compared to Randall cob I was just looking up his

high Randall. It's five ten, Ceedee Lamb is six two, so I think what you well, okay moment, let me keep going with Sidney Lamb in his and being at six two, that's definitely I mean, just by default being taller, it's gonna help you in the game, just help you with catching balls hopefully, and just Dak having a better target hit wise, and Beam being able to find the guy. So that's the only thing I can think of that it's beneficial at the position comparing to Randall Cop last year.

But you just never know how howard rookie is going to do him the first year, so I don't know what's going to happen for sure. But I didn't come this far to come this far, you know what I mean? Like I didn't drive the draft a receiver at seventeen bandwagon for three months and then like hop off now that I'm not gonna hop off now that football is getting close. Yes, I think he can be better than Randall Cop. I think he's got NFC Offensive Rookie of the Year. Do they do one for NFC and AFC

or is it just the NFL? I don't remember. He's got Offensive Rookie of the Year potentials. It's it's gonna be hard for him to beat the quarterbacks, you know, Burrow, maybe too whatever, but he should be in the conversation. Like I said, I did. I did the math on this a couple of weeks ago, and I mean it's hard to it's hard to phase out all of the variables.

But I think his absolute ceiling, I mean, excuse me floor, his absolute floor is like thirty five catches like that is the baseline, and I think he could get as high as like seventy throw in potential for punt returns, that's probably another twenty twenty five touches on the season. I think he's got serious potential to do a lot of damage. Yes, I mean, like I said, I know, there's a lot of unknowns, but I think he can

be better than Randall conn right away for sure. Indeed, to your point, just to pickyback off, what you said about the guys being able to come in and learn the offense, to be able to play different positions, it kind of reminds me of what I was playing with New England. Right when I was playing with the Patriots. There's no player on the Patriots plays one position. You know, Previously Tom Brady, that's the only person that played one position.

Other than that, you played multiple positions. So you know myself, Randy Moss, you know Wes Welker, Joey Galloway, you know, we had all these guys and you have you were one player, you're outside, one player, you're totally on the opposite end. One player you're in the slot, right, And that ability for to give the officer coordinator is that flexibility to create those mismatches, to be able to line you up inside and bring a motion down inside and

you have to go out. They're all kind of different ways in which you can release. It messes with the defense and if he can pick it up, man, this whole of this whole receiving corp is going to be is gonna be nasty. Yeah. This one of the things that I actually loved about drafting a CD Lamb is that I do think when you look at it, Randall cop although he could play on the outside, I thought

he was a much better receiver in the slot. If you can get receivers that really can do it equally well playing outside and playing in the slot, it just gives you so many more advantages. And so I'm interested to see when we get the training camp how quickly picks up the offense, because that will be a part of it. You know, picking up one position is one thing. Picking up a second position or a third position is

a whole different thing. So it'll be a lot about how well he can pick it up, how fast he can pick it up, and how effective he can be at all those different positions. Getting ready for the season. Let's move on to Michael Gallup. Last season, he had sixty sixty six receptions, eleven hundred and seven yards, six touchdowns. Is he good enough to be the number two option on this team ahead of c. D Lamb? He's he going to continue to be the number two option on

this team? Or do you think that CD is going to kind of push him out a little bit based upon what you know of CD and his ability level. Let's start with you, Dave. I don't I mean, maybe this is a cop out. I don't like to think of it as like number one, two and three, like I mean, I think Michael Gallup is going to keep his job on the outside. I think CD Lamb is going you know, when it's all said and done, they're gonna have like a thousand offensive snaps. I think CD

will play most of those in the slot. You know, he'll do a little bit of everything, but like it'll be sixty seventy percent in the slot if I had to guess, So, I mean, Gallup technically is still your number two receiver. I think his numbers will go up. I think, you know, I think if he caught six six balls last year, I think he's got the potential for seventy or more. But you know, I don't think CD's gonna like take quote unquote take his job because

I think it all intermingles. Like you said, hopefully, it's three guys that are all moving into three different positions on a somewhat regular basis. That's what I would love to see. So I don't really like looking at it in terms of a pecking order. Amber Well, you know what, We're not gonna get to it. But one of the questions that I have from fans was asking, how do you get these receivers to get better at catching the ball? We saw them struggle last year where you saw them

dropping the ball many many times. And I think that again, maybe Isaiah, you can speak about that. I don't know how you get better at catching a simple a ball that it's coming towards you. But I think that because of the experience and just him coming back for is it fourth year now or three? This is his third year Gallup, right, third Gallup, third year. I mean, we've seen him just getting better and better every year, so I think that his numbers should be able to go up.

But he just he just needs to clean up his game a little bit more and he can be so so, so so much better. A yeah to hit on both points, d I agree with you on the whole pecking order thing. We obviously know who number one is simply because his check defines number one. So but as far as the two A to B, I don't think it really matters. I think you know, I think you're gonna be surprised at how much you probably see Gallup in the slot.

If I was off as a coordinator simply because of his speed, right, the ability if you put him at Cooper on the same side, and now all of a sudden that that single safety or whatever, whether they're too high, and that's say they're cheating to that one side safety. They're working out one safety either way, single high or too high they're going to cause problems and he can

get on that safety quick fast and her. So they got to make a decision whether they want to stick him or whether they want to stick Coop if they put them on the same side, right, So I think they're gonna be surprising how often you see him on the inside. But again, him and CD, they should be very much interchangeable and it should be an attacked by committee, right, Hopefully that's what we're all asking for. That's all. That's

a hooper, that's what we're all assuming. But in terms of the whole catching portion amer that she touched on, you know, you know, I hate to take shots, man, but you know, Dak wasn't the most accurate cat in the world in the first part of the season. You know, he had a lot of balls that were thrown behind receivers. He had a lot of balls that had too much velocity on them. So there's a lot of things that play a part in receivers ability to be able to

catch the ball and do they need it. The general rule is if it touches your hand, you catch it. Okay, that's what that's old school, right, But the reality is there's a lot of other factors. You know, the ball being in front of me versus the ball being on my back shoulder. It creates a problem, right, it creates a huge problem. So even though I touched it, even though it touched my body, it's still a very difficult catch. And everybody's gonna say, well, you're getting paid enough money

to catch it. It's still a difficult catch. Right. There's a grown man, there's a girl man pulling on me. There's a ball that's coming hot, is behind me. My body's going this way, so it's difficult. Guys are going to continue to work on their hands like they always do. They'll get on the on the jug machine or whatever they're utilizing, and they'll get their catches in um. But you know it's not just on them. Dad has to throw a more catchable ball as well. All right, let's

move to the tight end position quickly. Blake Jarwin Jason Witten actually the last season had sixty three catches, five hundred and twenty nine yards, four touchdowns. Now Blake last season had thirty one catches, three hundred and sixty five yards and three touchdowns. The question is, is Blake good enough to be better than nineteen with that sixty three receptions, five hundred and twenty nine yards at four touchdowns, You should you should, probably should, you should just probably just

say the stats. You shouldn't just say. You shouldn't say better than when it's no, probably no, no, actually actually yes, to be clear, just to be clear. And I stay at that question like that specifically because I'm talking in all fast it's not necessarily the leadership part. Let's leave that part out. But in all fastests blocking and being able to go down, feel, get open, make catches, score all those things? Is he a better Is he going to be able to be a better all around tight

end than Jason Witton was in twenty nineteen? Let's start with you guys. Yeah, I know we're talking about the goat. I know, I know it's blasphemous. Goat. How old is with thirty eight thirty nine? Some run there? I think he turned thirty Yeah, one of one of those. Okay, so it could he has the potential, we like to use that word, he has the potential to be better than a wit. But it with stats last year, a thirty eight thirty eight year old wit? Um, why are

you thanking so much? This is a sick. It's a trick question. Do you think he's slick on this one? Um, it's not a trick question answering. No, There's there's so much that comes with being a vent. You know, you talk about the top tight ends every right, what's in that conversation for top five? Right? So he's so savvy and his ability to find the niches in the defense, that's what creates opportunities. It wasn't It never was witch physical stature or his physical skill set that just got

him open. It was his savvy nous. Right. So if Jarwin, if he could figure that out, didn't hick. Guess if he can't figure that out and figure out, you know, watching the film study to find those holes in the defenses, and watch old Witt and watch Gonzalez and some of these other old school casts, then I don't see it happening, especially with all these weapons. But he should have substantially more one on one matchups than any of the anybody

in recent history has had. Yeah, that's an interesting point because if you think about Jason Witt, and there were certain moments in games, particularly third down, where teams would try to take him out. I don't think Blake Jarwin is going to be facing that this year. I don't think with all the other offensive weapons. I think a lot of times he's gonna be facing one guy and it's probably not gonna be if its own coverage is

probably not gonna be bracket coverage. He's probably gonna be in a situation where he has opportunities to get open, and so we're gonna get to see You're right, We're gonna get to see how savvy he can be. Amber you answer the question, I think again, no one can take away everything that Witten has done for the Cowboys. Okay, that's a fact. Great now compared to what he last year, I have to say, I mean, he went and did not look like himself last year. He was going downhill

a little bit, and he was getting slower. He was dropping balls things that you you are not used to seeing. We're in do he was doing now. Blake jar Went on the other hand, I feel like he does for sure have the potential to keep going upwards. We've seen it every time he was able to get more playing time. We saw it two years ago, the how his game just kept getting better the more he was on the field.

He just needs to get more chances, more opportunities of being out there on the field, getting more comfortable, just having more time to kind of get loose throughout the game and making the plays that he needs to make. But I definitely think he can have a better year this year and possibly even match what those numbers that

you're talking about the Witten guy last year. Hey, I'd say this with a tremendous amount of respect for Jason Witten, but like, I don't even think it's that tall of a task, to be perfectly honest with you, Jason Witten caught sixty three passes last year and finished with five hundred and twenty nine yards. That's bad. That's that's not good. That's that's eight yards per catch. Um. There, you know, the run after the catch wasn't there, The breaking tackles

wasn't there. Amber alluded to it. There were drops at the end of the season, the particularly egregious one against Philadelphia. I don't nobody on the offense came to play that week. It's pretty obvious looking back at it. UM. I just think I think Jarwin represents such a more dynamic option. Like you go look at some of his best plays, His ability to shed tackles, his ability to get yards

after the catch. His touchdown against the Giants, he caught the ball at like the twenty eight yard line and scored. When was the last time Jason Witten did that? And again, it's no disrespect to him, but the guy is nearly forty. He brings an incredible amount of savvy. He knows how to get open, he knows how to use angles and do all of that. But what do you do once the ball is in your hand and in a you know, in a day and age where space is everything in football?

I just think that's so important. Um. And is Jarwin the best blocker in the world. Absolutely not. But Jason Witten hasn't been an above average blocker. Probably in the last four or five years of his Cowboy career, He's been fine. Um, but a lot of that, you know, that's reputation more than production, in my opinion. So I'll gladly take the loss in blocking ability for what I think will be a drastic improvement that I'm don't say that I'm calling it now. I am calling it now.

Is going to have a fantastic year. I don't know. I don't disagree with that, and I'll say, this is what right? I mean, I say, don't don't don't minimize, don't minimize the ability for a tight end to get in a three point stands and tell the tackle what to do. Right. I can't. I can't imagine. I can't tell you how many times with or any other event that I played around with Ben wattson any guys like that getting the three point stands and they see something

that the other officer alignement didn't see. Especially with this, uh, this um was a musical chairs we're about to have with the officer a ligne and have the ability to be able to put their hand in the ground and say, hey, this is the move, this is the call right here, we're changing this. Nope, we're not doing this block cheam,

We're doing this one now. And that's where I'm talking about. Physically, Jarwin's way ahead of with listen, Like I said, what's never been the physical specimen, but but mentally he was leads and balances above almost everybody. That's totally the fact that we'll get to see us to whether he really is yeah, yeah, see if he's really up to that that test that that Jason Witten passed so much during his career. All Right, we appreciate you guys joining us.

We will be back at training camp, will be back in July, and we appreciate you guys taking the time with us this offseason, particularly during this quarantine. I know it hasn't always been perfect. The audio is not always great, and sometimes our look isn't perfect, but we do appreciate the fact that you guys take time with us and spend some time with us to talk some Cowboys football.

I want to say special thanks to our producer Chris Beam and until training camp for Ambergar Sea Isaiah stand back, Dave Helm and I'm Derek Eagelson. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.