Cowboys Break: O-Line Health

We are lives from the s WBC Mortgage. What's going on? Yeah, the star I like very rare fist. Let me go, Yeah, I got stuff. Yeah, this thing is Darre didn't even know. He was like, this's episode exact or whatever it is. Whatever we're doing. We got a lot to do though, We've got a lot to talk about. There are lots of injury issues for this team, and we kind of I guess let's go ahead and jump right into those.

Several guys did not practice yesterday, Lyle Collins to our own Crawford, Tyren Smith, and then a couple of limited guys that that just I want to get some updates on Amari Cooper. Obviously he has an ankle injury, Michael Gallup with the knee, Chris Jones with a back, to Marcus Lawrence with a knee, shoulder, and from what we heard this morning, additionally a hill bruise, Zach Martin with

a back, Antoine Woods with a knee. I guess let's start first with just overall talking about de Marcus Lawrence because it was the first I'd heard of this hillbruise. But it sounds like from Garrett that's the biggest issue that he's facing right now. There's a lot of like when you're dealing with minor stuff that might not keep you out of the lineup, there's always like conflicting information. Basically.

I don't know if Jason Garrett does that on purpose or if he sort of gets his details mixed up.

But he heard his shoulder in the game, and then there was a you know, he there was a play where he kind of collapsed in and made a tackle on the ground and you could tell it kind of messed his lower body up, and so people were saying knee and then he'll and so it's honestly, it's probably all of those things playing, but he's playing yes to just jump to the jump to the lead of the days that um Lyle Collins and Tyrone Smith are the only players on the team who were not at practice today.

Lawrence is there, Gallops there, Cooper's there, Antoine Woods is there, Tyrone Crawford right there, Tyrone Crawford. Yeah, they're they're all out there. Yeah, I mean, you know, we'll have to

keep an eye on him. But there are only two players on the roster who didn't practice today, and of those two, it sounds like, again from some of the things that we've been hearing, Lyle Collins, this is this maybe a situation where they're holding him out, but he may be pretty good to go from what we saw today. I think that it suggests that he will be back. Because Connor Williams was practicing at right tackle yesterday. Today

he's back at guard. Brandon Knight, their rookie, is at right tackle, and I think that that suggests that Connor needs to practice at left guard if he's going to play it, Brandon Knight can do it for this day, and maybe trying to figure out if Brandon Knight's a guy that does it well enough that might be active for this game. But I would think if if Lyell, if they were really worried about it, they would continue to work Connor Williams at right tackle unless he was

terrible at it yesterday. And Brandon Knight's the guy. But I don't know. I think we're going to see seventy one tomorrow. I think that he doesn't miss a lot, I mean a lot of work. As banged up as he was a couple of years ago, he never missed a snap. He's a tough guy. He'll be out there. I think he's gonna be there tomorrow. I think they're trying to give him as much time to rest as

back as possible, but I think he'll be there. I think I definitely think Amari Cooper and DeMarcus Lawrence aren't one hundred percent, But guess what nobody is by week five. So it is what it is. I hate seeing all these back injuries, and that is something that these offense linemen have to deal with it. But when you start looking at it and talking about it on week five of the season, it's it's it's frustrating. Well to me,

it's alarming in a way. They all needed. Hey, they got some sponsor on there to get some beds to help out the punters got a back injury, right I don't know what that practice, but it concerns me. I've always been very big on back injuries. I suffered from a back, so I know what that's like. And when you look at these guys and the type of things that they have to do on the field at their position, that scenario that really gets a lot of tension while playing.

So the fact that we we're talking about it this early this season and that's what three guys I guess, well, Tyrn it's not a back injury, but Tyro that he has dealt with the backa and he's the one that doesn't have a back injury right now. It's insane, it's it sucks. It's not great. Back injuries suck, but it is what it is, and they're probably all going to be dealing with it all season long. Um, just grinned

and fight through it the best that you can. I mean, we've seen this for several years at this point, and it never seems like it drastically alters the level of play. Like if Lyall's back hurts this week, then it's probably hurt at other times. Since the season started as well, and you just do the best you can to get

through it. And they usually do talk to me about, Um, Michael Gallup who returned to practice yesterday, what are we hearing about how he how his body responded to a day of work back out there a good today, So that that's a good sign. Don't foresee any issues there. I think he's he's ready to go. He's ready. Bryant was already giving him the green live or Sunday, Brian, Yeah, he gets to do that. Apparently if he's out there,

then he's probably got the green light. The thing and he said it yesterday is like the doctors told him, like you can't you can't do any damage to the knee, Like you can't hurt yourself. It's just a matter of like how much can you fight through the pain, because I mean, obviously he's still in pain. It's still he's still two weeks off surgery. So I think that's just a mental thing, which again for the eighteenth time, like it sounds crazy to think that he's going to fight

through the pain of just having undergone surgery. But if he can do it, he can do it. I would guess. I wonder how his game changes though, because you know, when you're injurance and it's very fresh, you're hesitant in your moves, and sometimes you notice that from guys when they're moving around on the field. I would guess he's not gonna look quite as explosive right off the bat, like and just maybe he will, but I would guess not.

And on top of that, he's probably gonna need to like catch a pass and get hit and get up again before he feels like completely confident. That's just human nature. Maybe they do it today, just tackle him. Don't do that. You don't like that idea, Hey, if you see him around the billing, why don't you do it. If you're gonna if you're gonna do something that might hurt him, wait until it counts, don't do it. In practice, that would actually be pretty funny if Nick just runs up

to him and tackles him. Probably replace me on the show or who moves in. I don't know if somebody would be replacing you, because I think you'd be here anymore. Yeah, And even though the fact that it be documented on tape that my supervisor said to do that, that wouldn't Maybe that means we both would be here maybe we're botal. All right, we're gonna take our first break. When we come back, we're gonna get into day's assessment of this

Green Bay defense. Today we talk about the defense versus the Cowboys offense, where there might be opportunities for the Cowboys, some of the players that play on that Green Bay defense, and some stats that might surprise you a little bit about how that defense stacks up. We'll do all that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Your new apartment's big. Such a great deal that's okay? Just okay? What's not too right? Above the subway? Well,

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American made with pride right here in Texas. They are still the official crown of all self prospecting Cowboys and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Find steps and hats in the pro Shop or at Stetson dot com. Today. Back to the break Welcome back to the break Wheel off NESTWBC mor Hit Studios at the Star talking Cowboys football, Talking Cowboys versus Packers. That's happening the Sunday three thirty five is the kick time

here at AT and T Stadium. Dave's gonna give us a scouting report on the Green Bay defense, Dave, the GBP. Did you see the stat from Bobby Belt I did A I did Since twenty thirteen, the Cowboys are fifteen and four at AT and T when they score thirty one and three of the four losses are to Green Bay. Yeah, yikes. Yeah. In other words, hate playing these guys. Shootouts are probably not in the cards as your best chance to win. Hate hate playing them. But I came away pretty encouraged

by what I saw against the GBP. D it's the Green Bay Packer defense. If you're not up on the hip lingo like me, tenth in total defense, third in passing defense, one hundred and eighty eight yards per game. Why might that be? Because They're twenty sixth in the league in rushing defense, given up an average of one hundred and forty two yards per game. They have eight takeaways on the season. UM, lot of a lot of

talent here that depending on what you're looking at. Maybe, I mean it's kind of like they're good and not good all at the same time. Kind of. They signed two really really good pass rushers over the offseason, the Smith brothers, Preston and Zadarius Smith. They're not actually brothers, um, really good players. They they combined for eight sacks already this season. Jayre Alexander one of the best young corners

in the game. UM. Definitely in that upper echelon. Kevin King finally coming into his own after an injury played career except oh, he didn't participate in practice yesterday, had a really good game against the Philadelphia Eagles the other night. Um n, He's a guy that I always think they should have drafted over Took. That's who I wanted them to knocked over because that one, to me, that one kind of came in late, like after he had done well. It was more like they could have gotten him. Depends

on who the Cowboys were not interested in. What. But there were a bunch of draft people who thought they should draft what at the time. At the time, yes, absolutely right they were, weren't there a couple of people in draft Brian and Dane were both kind of like, this is who they should draft, but they don't want a tweener. Right, it happens. It happens, a rare miss. We're moving on. That's not the point. That's not the point.

King was in the consideration to King, King was who I liked, and he's been good when he's been healthy. But in the second round, he's like the first pick of the second round. He has not been healthy often enough to I mean, he's the thirty third overall pick. His career hasn't been that great. Uh. Two really good safeties Darnell Savage rookie playing really well as their free roaming kind of guy. And then they took Adrian Amos out of Chicago as they're strong. Really impressed by what

I saw from him. Kenny Clark is, you know, a Pro Bowl caliber nose tackle, and you have Dean Lowry and Montevious Adams. I think Adams is a big get back for them. He played the first two weeks he missed week three and miss week four, but he did

practice yesterday, so that's something to watch. But yeah, like I just listed off like this murderer's row of talent, and yet I don't know, they don't look they don't look so impressive to me when you flip it on, at least not in parts like again, really good cornerback play. Nobody's really passing the ball well on them. But how much of that is because how easy it is to run on them. We talked about this yesterday and I actually looked it up. They had a really good night

defending the run against the Bears. They held him the forty seven yards on twenty two carries. Here's their rushing totals for the rest of the season. Vikings carried the ball twenty seven times for one ninety eight. Broncos carried the ball thirty eight times for one forty nine. Eagles carried the ball thirty three times for one seventy six. And when you flip this stuff on, I watched the

Eagles game and I watched some Vikings snaps. They get moved off the ball off and aspect like the Vikings do not have a good offensive line like Eagles, way to go. They're great offensive line. You should win that battle. The Vikings not so much, and they were still able to move these guys off the ball, get linebackers moving in the wrong direction, create big holes. And then the other thing you see is when the like the running

back hits the hole, and that's troublesome. But then when the linebackers and the defensive linemen make contact, you're seeing Jordan Howard getting four or five extra yards after that, like not very impressive tackling and not very good movement up front to not give the running back anywhere to go. So like that jumps out at you. And then on top of that, let's just stick it, keep it in the middle of the field, because it seems like tight ends are a great way to go to try to

get production against these guys. Because again, hobbled Michael Gallup hobbled to Maury Cooper, one of the best young corners in the game. I wonder how much out i'd passing yards. You'll be there for him. So like I'm looking at tight ends. Jason Witt and Blake Jarwin, we saw it last week. It was the only thing they did have success with. And then maybe crossing routes, Randal Cobb trying to move him across the middle of the field, maybe

lose somebody in the trash. It just doesn't seem like they're strong in the middle of the field as on the outside. That's kind of my my broad take. So let me ask you this on Kevin King, did you from what you saw and obviously he's he did not participate in practice yesterday, do you think that changes a lot from the standpoint of how good their past defense has been. You take somebody that again played really really

well against Philadelphia, take him out of the mix. How does that depth look behind him to where does that create more opportunities to passing game than maybe they've shown in these first first three or four games. So if King can't go, it would probably be Tremon Williams, who, like you know that name. He's like, I feel like he's been in the league for like twenty years. I think you could go both ways. Is like maybe easier to beat him, but he's also like wiley veteran, He's

probably got some tricks up his sleeve. What's interesting to me is they also drafted Josh Jackson out of Iowa A couple of years ago, same draft as King. I believe, oh sorry, led the led college football and interceptions like great ball skills, Like he just doesn't appear to be the guy. He might be playing Nickel in this game because of the injuries they have at cornerback. They got another injury Tony Brown, it's probably not going to play

in this game. And like I've listened to some Packer podcasts to kind of get a feel for their team, and they're like terrified at the thought of this guy playing Nickel, so which is a bummer for them because he was like a high second round pick. So yeah, I do think there are there you can exploit this matchup because they're so banged up at cornerback. If Alexander's the only one of their top guys that's playing, that's good.

But at the same time, your receivers are kind of hobbled too, Like Cooper's probably not at one hundred percent Gallup definitely isn't, so I wonder if that kind of mitigates the advantage that you have in that matchup. This is a question for everybody looking at this matchup and what Dave was talking about with their their run defense, it seems like this would be a week that maybe the Cowboys offensive line can get back to what it was doing in those earlier games. If they can't, then

I'm concerned. Yeah, even with all the injuries. And that's my question is do you think that with the injuries that the Cowboys are sustained? Tyren Smith being the most important one, but like you said, there are a lot of guys that are hobbled, whether they're playing or not. Do you think that this becomes a challenge even against the run defense that seems susceptible, do you think that's still a big challenge for this Cowboys offensive line. Yeah, definitely.

I think that the Packers are, you know, catching a break that their run defense, which is not that great, it's going to get a player back, like like Dave said, and then also facing an offensive line that won't be as good as it normally is because Tyren Smith won't be there and why Al Collins won't be one hundred percent and I don't know if Zach Martin will be as well. So yeah, there that is going to be more of a challenge than it would be. I don't know if it'll be even but I think even even

when they were healthy. In the last game, they weren't performing well. So now the injuries on top of their performance from last week, and it makes it even worse. Not playing as good of the line though this week. But still, yeah, they're not as good as they were heading into that game. I just, like I said, it would be troubling if they struggled that much again, given again, these are I mean I listed it off. These aren't

all great teams that were just bullying these guys. It's with the exception of Week one, it's been a theme three weeks running. Yeah, I said, sorry going If they didn't have Week one where the Bears rush for forty five yards, they would definitely be dead last. I mean, the last three weeks have been terrible for them, but they do have that forty five yard game that they stopped the Bears. Nobody was playing offense in that game,

and so I think that's preventing them from being even worse. Absolutely, a couple other things I want to note. The two Smiths. They flop, so you know, it's it's not as simple as saying, oh, Cam Fleming is going to have a handful with Preston Smith. He'll probably see both of them. If I had to guess Alexander he they do like to travel him. They put him on Earth's I mean like they'll put him wherever. Not for every snap, but like they'll put him wherever. He's really good. He leads

the NFL in past deflections. I saw that he is six. I mean, that didn't seem like that would be leading the NFL, but I guess after four games, Yeah, that's a pretty decent amount. Yeah, this is something I noticed just watching the Eagles game. It doesn't pertain to the Packers defense so much, but I just like saw it with the Saints and then we saw it again with the I saw it with the Eagles. Is like, how come the Cowboys aren't more creative with the way they

call the screen game? Seriously, no, I get it. But like, there are a bunch of people out there, I think listening right now saying oh done, Like that's what people have been asking for years. I guess, so why not. I don't like, yeah, I'm not some sort of genius, but it just sort of dawned on me. Like last night they ran a play where Jordan Howard like he did a fake fly sweep from the slot, sprinted across

play action to Wins Wins. I think he faked it to the other running back and Howard sprinted out to the left and the line came with him and it turned from a fake fly sweep into a bubble screen to the running back and I was like, that's really cool and it only got like eight yards, but I was like, all the Cowboys ever due is play action fake to Zeke. He sort of trots out to his right, Dak does a loop de loop and throws it to him like that's they It's only it only ever looks

that way. There's more than one way to call a screen. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the play that the Cowboys ran they ran it in the I think the Miami game, and they tried to run it again last week where they have both Zeke and Pollard in the backfield. Pollard takes off sprinting across the offense over to the opposite side, and then Dak drops the ball to him. They didn't he didn't throw it to him

this last time because a defender picked it up. But they did use and I think in the previous game, and it was first time we'd seen the two of them on the field together. I want to say that with a screen. I want to say the offensive lineman got out there and got in front of him to block hitting out the field. I think. And it sounds like the reason why I say this because it sounds exactly the way you described that play sound very similar to what they ran when they had both those guys

in the backfield. It just did work. I feel like from watching the Cowboys game and then watching the Saints game against Seattle, they came up with like eight different ways to get Kimara the ball on the same concept. Yeah, and it just doesn't seem like the Cowboys do that. And that's the reason I bring it up is because I think that would help them. Green Bay doesn't handle blocking well. They're bad against the run, and their pass rushers are probably going to be aggressive against the team

with hobbled tackles. So how do you combat that? You know, like, I would hope that way. It seems useful, whether it's with Zeke or Pollard or both. I would like to see that. I would like to think they can lean on the run game. I would like to think you can find some stuff in the middle of the field. I Blake Martinez. I think he leads the league in tackles like the last two years. But I don't know.

I don't know. I don't see anything from him that, you know, is like key Lesque or like Layton vander Esh where he's just snuffing stuff out. I think he's a good player, I don't know that he's on that level where he's like blowing stuff up before it develops, at least not from what I saw. So yeah, I am. I'm really impressed with Adrian Amos. That was one thing I came away with. Like he plays down in the box. I think if the Cowboys are going to run the ball,

that's something they're gonna have to watch. I would guess he's going to spend a lot of time down there, and if Dak wants to run the ball, he's probably gonna have to deal with him too. He made a really great play on Carson Wentz in that game where he stopped him, and Carson Wentz is a good running I mean, he can run the ball and he made a great open field play on him. So they definitely have talented players, but it hasn't come together for them perfectly.

Of course, I say that they're top ten in scoring defense, so they have some guys. All right, talk me through a little bit of what your thoughts are on Cam Fleming going back to when he's played for this team and just overall in his career. What can fans expect to see from him at at left tackle this weekend, assuming Tyrn's not playing well. I wrote an article on that yesterday and he wins. Um, maybe it helps that Tom Brady's the guy that he was blocking for, and

they're gonna win with you know, Dave playing left tackle. Maybe, but he's nineteen and four and his twenty three games as a starter, so and that's you know, that's not bad. Three and oh with the Cowboys last year, and so yeah, it's a drop off, but the Cowboys have managed in all three games that they've played with him, and you know New England managed as well when he and one year he was the starter. I mean, it wasn't like

they were just filling in. He was the starter. So, um, he's gonna battle and he's you know, he's not just gonna just lock people down like Tyron does. But he'll battle and he'll you know, he's he's good. There's a reason why they brought him back. I actually took it upon myself to watch. I didn't watch the Giants game, but I watched the offense snaps from the Washington and New Orleans games last year, which is when he started

for Tyron, and he played pretty well. Actually, no, I don't think anybody's brought this up except for me because I'm a genius. He played against Preston Smith last year. He played against Preston Smith was with the Redskins last year, and Cam Fleming started against him in November of last year and played pretty well. They gave up four sacks in that game, one of them was on Cam, but like for the most part, he handled Preston Smith very well. It was really Carrigan that did most of the damage

in that game. And then against the Saints, I don't remember this. Dak actually got stacked seven times in that game and in the Saints game. None of them were Cam's fault, not, I mean, not that I saw. I thought he played really well. He dealt with Cam Jordan on occasion, he dealt with their other guy whose name I'm John blank On. But he played pretty well. Like I like, he's not gonna sabotage your game plan the way that some other offensive tackles in the past. Who

will remain nameless for good reason. Yeah, all right, jobless right, jobless too? Yeah. Sure, Honestly, I'm not concerned about him. If you care about my opinion, I will tell you I'm not concerned about Kim and Fleming and what he's gonna do in this game. I'm concerned about the Cowboys keeping the game clean and not getting any holding penalties or things like that that he clearly has affected them

in previous games. Now, this might not be a comfortable, super comfortable game for Dak like he's had in the first games he's had. You know, the line has has done a pretty good job for him, giving him plenty of time to get rid of the ball. I don't think that will be the case this week. But well, you think you think there'll be more of a pass rush. I think I think they're gonna somehow be able to rush him a little bit, just not allow him to

be as comfortable. I don't think he'll be an to the point where, Okay, they're gonna lose the game because Dak was pressured throughout the whole game. But It's not gonna be a comfortable game for him where he's just sitting in the pocket finding his guys and throwing the ball. He's gonna sometimes have to kind of get out of the pocket and throw the ball on the move. But at the end of the day, I don't think he'll

be something that's gonna ruin his game completely. I completely agree with you and that you know, always talk about grading on a curve, Like a good game from Camp Fleming is if he gives up like a sack and a half, you know, like, these are good players he's going against. I don't expect him to shut them out. I would imagine Dak's gonna get sacked a couple times

in this game. But is this a last week um or is this just about the fact that you have an offensive line that's without its best or one of its best offensive linement. I think it's a mixture of both. I would argue, like the tandem of the two Smiths is probably better from a pass rushing perspective of just Cam Jordan, you know, I mean, am I completely like the Saints don't have that complimentary pass rusher that just

gives you nightmares. Although Marcus Davenport actually did give Tyran Smith fits in that game, but and I guess for from that standpoint, compared also to Washington, Washington's a pretty good pass rush and it seemed like they kind of got after a little bit early, but Cowboys kind of shut him down there as the game wore on. I guess the only thing I'm wondering is it doesn't seem like to me, as much as the offensive line struggled

last week. It seems like to me, their issues when they've had issues, have been way more in the running game than the passing game. It seems like to me they've held them pretty well in all four games. He's been sacks how many times? For something? The gallup is a huge for this game. Gallup's got to come back and get open because you know that they're going to have to give more help to Fleming and maybe you know Lyle if he's banged up to them and they're

gonna have to maybe some tight ends running backs. They're going to do that more. These receivers have got to get open one on one. So I hope, like I would like to see some screen passing. I think I just think it would go a long way, and we know that they can be really good at it. I mean they do it all the time. They scored against the Saints on a screen last year. That's yeah, I'd

like to see that. Yeah. I saw a fan on Twitter talking about that yesterday, saying, what's the good of having an offensive line that's so athletic if you're not going to use them? And that's one way that you use them. You want to get them out in space and let them make some of those open field blocks. That's the point of having an athletic line. So yeah, I think I think it's I think everybody probably agrees with your thought. It's just one of those things. For

some reason, they have just not ever. It doesn't seem like since Emmett Smith they've really developed a good screen game. And yeah, and it's I know it's obvious, like I'm not saying anything nobody's ever heard before, but like you watch some of these other teams and you're like, there's so many ways to get your running back the ball, and the Cowboys don't do ye. All right, we're gonna take our final break. We'll come back. Let's get some questions.

You guys can call us eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. Again it is eight eight eight eight five five two two nine to seven. You can also hit me on Twitter at Derek Eagleton will take your questions that way as well. Right back, this is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Your new apartment's big, such a great deal. Yeah, it's okay, just okay. What's not to do right above the subway? Well, I bet you don't even notice it after that's my neighbor. Angus.

A deal that's just okay, is not okay? Get a great deal with America's best network. Come into an AT and T store and learn how to buy one smartphone and get a second one on US based on GWS one score. September twenty eighteen, ditch time for tail game with the autobox Boys. Auterbox the makers are those crazy protective phone cases so one and only. They're also wild

about protecting parking lot parties from sad drinks. It's why they made elevation tumblers room around the crock pot, as they're made from stainless steal with a copper lining to keep temps hotter coal true. They even coming seven different sizes up to sixty four ounce the growler. I like how Auterbox drinks, I mean thinks, and that's been tailgating with the Auterbox boys. Check out all the colors and

sizes of their elevation tumblers at auterbox dot com. A man's steps and doesn't just protect him from life's elements, it projects an unstoppable and legendary spirit, just like the men wearing silver and navy on the field every Sunday Sends eighteen sixty five. Stetson Hats are American made with pride right here in Texas. They are still the official crown of all self prospecting Cowboys, and Stetson is proud

to be on the field with America's team. Find steps and hats in the pro Shop or at Stetson dot com today. Star Sports Tours is the only official fan travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, offering exclusive game weekend travel packages with sideline access and photo ops with current players, alumni and cheerleaders. That's not all, though, You'll get to talk xs and those with Senior Director of Player Personnel Will McClay and of course with yours truly me, Brian

broad Us. You can trust the official fan Travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys and with us, you'll travel like a pro. Us a Cowboys Travel dot com to book your travel package today. Back to the Break, Welcome back. It is the final segment of the Break Lickings WBC Mortar Studios at the Star, Nick Peva. Oh yeah. Free to play, I mean free to play. You have to check it out. Everybody, please get signed up, update your app.

Make sure that your app is updated, because you really can take advantage of the free to play this that's going on here. Ten thousand dollars is the grand prize. You have to be twenty one or older. I bet you are, because if you're not, you'd probably be in school right now. The download of kids listen to our show while they're in school. If they do, congratulations, I

mean they probably have cool ways to do that. Download the app for access on game days at Dallas Cowboys dot Com slash app, and you'll be playing free to play, and you can play against all of us because we're all all going to be there. We will all be playing, all right. I have a feeling that you will beat me. Okay, never you to play all right, Free to play? Check it out, um, Okay, so let's get to a phone call. We got a call from Eli in Corpus CHRISTI, Eli,

what up is that? Where he is? Hey, guys, are y'all doing? Ladies and lady and gentlemen. What I wanted to bring up is something that I'm surprised that it hasn't been brought up this year. It's been brought up before in the past, but not this year. It's the fact that we're not getting turnovers. The reason is the way we run our defense. I go back and look at every game and it's like we're teaching our players not to attack the ball, but more to let the

receiver catches and then everybody rallied to the ball. And it seems to be like that for the past few years. And we keep getting told that don't worry turnovers is we'll come in bunches. Well, I've been waiting for years for those bunches to come. I mean, I'm nowhere. That's the worst, you know, But we're definitely not even in the middle or the best, you know, and I don't

expect to be. But I didn't like. I don't like also the fact that it seems like we're the only team that we're like first and twenty, the opposing team is on first and twenty, and on second down, now it's second and thirteen, and now on third down it's third and four. And I'm like, why don't we ever get a third and twenty? And the reason is because we're letting the receivers catch the ball and then rallying to the ball. And that works perfectly, and it's been

working perfectly because we've been great on third down. But it doesn't work if DA's not on and that was pretty evident this last game. It felt like he was waiting for Cooper to break, and then once he was already out of his break, then he was throwing the ball which would get Gilmore enough time to attack him from behind. Because it seemed like that was every time. But that's all I wanted to say. Guys. Also, Cooper's dropping the way twenty balls. But I love you, guys,

love this show. Like to you what you think about that? Twenty second and thirteen, third and four? And it seems to happen every single game, all right? Thanks to the call? Well, I mean, what happens on third and four? He kind of I agreed with almost everything he said but he kind of switched it up, like the first seventy five percent of that call was about the defense, right, or

did I totally miss that throwing in everything? Well, what I understood was he started talking about the defense and them not getting enough turnovers, and but then that doesn't work when Dak doesn't play and move the offense and benefit from what the defense is. All Right, got an interception last week? Anyway, I mean I think, I think, yeah, I think the point of his call was he thinks

the issue is the way the techniques that they're using. Essentially, he thinks they're not attacking the ball enough as defensive backs. They are in situation where they just there. He again, his argument is that they're allowing the receivers to catch the ball. Didn't they rally to make the tackle rather than attacking the ball? Okay, here's a scenario then for him,

first and twenty because it's a holding penalty. Okay, first and twenty and it's a five yard pass out in the flat and Cheeto just goes over the top and bats it down, but he is called for PI. So instead of being second in fourteen, it's now automatic first down and all that. So I think that's what you're supposed to do. Is it's up been but don't break philosophy.

I mean, why would you want to get a facemask penalty and just wipe out the fact that it was first in twenty I think the written off the field as good as anybody in the league. So you can talk about first down, second down, but then third and four. They're not getting it. Man, I think it works the only way you're gonna lose games if you give up really big plays. That's not the only way you lose, But if you give up big plays, it's you're gonna lose a lot faster than you would if you don't

get turnover. Rod Marinelli, it's pretty evident he views it as a war of attrition, Like you've got to go seventy five yards and if you play your technique, play sound, rall the ball and tackle, even if you are letting guys pat and like, I think it's a valid point,

Like that is that is how they play it. But if you make them cover every blade of grass on that seventy five yards and make them need eight to fifteen plays to do it, you're giving yourself more opportunities to capitalize on their mistakes, whether that's their protection slips and you get a sack, or there's a bobble ball that you intercept like they did the other night, or had multiple opportunities at and didn't do in Washington. You're

giving yourself more opportunities to capitalize on their mistakes. The flip side is that you have to do it, and they haven't at times this season. Honestly, New Orleans is the first time they did do it. And then the other thing is, and I think it's valid, is I don't know how many genuine playmakers with genuine ball skills they have on the back end. Byron Jones has proven he can cover as well as anybody in the league. He doesn't have ball skills, he just doesn't. He's got

like three interceptions in his career. Cheetos to struggle with playing the ball. I think his coverage is good more often than not, but in terms of playing the ball, you'd like to see better. Jeff Heath is what he is, which he's got a knack for being around the ball. I think the play in Washington kind of illustrates that maybe he doesn't have the elite type of instincts you would want from a safety who's gonna get six or seven picks a year. But it is what it is.

Maybe Xavier Woods can grow into that guy. But I don't have a ton of problem with them playing that way because it's like to next point, it's worked so well. Like I get that it's frustrating, but I'd rather they do that than be given up chunk players because they're being so aggressive. Yeah, and if you look around the league, I think that's a common thing around the league watching

how defensive backs play, particularly cornerbacks. A lot of teams, you see the technique they're taught is keep their eye, keep close to the defender when the ball's there, they read the cornerback, they read the receiver's eyes when the ball gets there, then put their hand between the receiver's two hands and the ball and try to rip it out like. That's how teams are making plays these days, and that's not necessarily attacking the ball from the standpoint

of getting the interception. The really good quarterbacks you'll see them get those interceptions. But by and large, cornerbacks, I think are being taught around the league that same technique of get in between and rip the ball out. Yeah. I mean, and look, they haven't had a safety with those types of instincts and forever everybody knows that we can amber he could have taught some of these guys

some things. But you know, I mean, and you know, maybe, like I said, maybe Xavier Woods can become that guy, or maybe they'll draft one high next year or some year. But for the time being, you're working with what you got. All right, Let's take this question from Twitter from Tim Rafferty. He says, is eighty two impeding the development of eighty nine talking about Jason Witten and uh and Blake Jarlin, M not really, I don't think something eighty nine block.

I don't know. You tell me. I don't, man, I don't think he's ready to just be that guy. Um. But is that because he's not been given enough opportunity? I guess that's what the question. Kind of opportunities the block? I mean, like, is he is he? I don't think, But I mean, listen, Jason Witten is one of my favorite players of all time. Everyone knows that, and that's it's because he's been a really great, complete player. But what has Jason Witten done in four games that would

say that he's impeding anybody. I mean, he's done more play, He's made more plays than anyone probably would have thought. And it's not just for the four yard touchdowns. I mean he's making plays down the field. Okay, he fumbled. It won't happen again until twenty twenty three, because that's what it says he won't. I mean when he'll still be playing, right yeah, yeah, and still impeding the progress

of his son, you know right there. I mean, I'm just saying Jason Witten has been a pleasant surprise for me this year. I didn't expect him to be making plays like that. When he caught that ball, I was like, this guy, hold and then he fumbled. I could even get a sentence out because it got made a great play. I don't think he's impeding anybody, really, and I think Jarwin's good too, But I'm surprised at the amount of

times we've actually seen Jarwin on the field. Honestly, with Jason coming back, I didn't that Jarwin to be as much on the field. Tip the words right out of my mouth, like I'm the one that I was saying, like Witten's gonna play ninety five percent of the snaps and his percentage is definitely high. But I mean, what what I'm looking at Jarwin. Jarwin's at eight catches for one hundred and thirteen yards in a touchdown right now. Like, if you told me he had that through four weeks,

I would be very impressed. It sounds like a season. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And he's get any is even DACKI He's on pace for five hundred receiving yards. Yeah, and he's taking Witten's plays. I mean, I mean, like that scene right down there, I can't do that anymore. Well, I was about to say, I don't know. I don't know if I'd say that, I think he can still do take into it like Jarwin. Jarwin is a more athletic tied end to go to really attack the scene. And we've seen it on a touchdown.

We saw it on a near touchdown last week. That's that was Witten's play for years. It's better probably with Jarwin. But I do think two things can be true here. I do think that Jason can be playing well and still impeding the progress because I think, honestly, if you look at the history of tight ends and on this team since Jason Witten has been here. He's impeded the progress of a lot of tight ends that left here and became decent tight ends other places, decent to good

tight ends other places. So my point is that it doesn't right. It is good. That means that he is good enough to hold them off and they can go somewhere else. But they're not good enough to take him off the field, right, And so they didn't go anywhere else and become zach Ertza, Winton became marchellis be one

Pro Bowl. So so you may not be getting you may not be getting the growth at the same trajectory for a guy like Blake Jarwin that maybe you would hope to get if Jason wasn't here taking those reps that he takes. But the good thing in all that is that Jason's actually producing. So because he's producing, there's no need to take him off I feel in order to get those extra snaps for Jarwin. I think they're doing a very good job of balancing that. I have

no complaints. Jarwin has been good, Witten has been surprisingly good. They're both on the field. I wish I wish I

had time to pull it up like Jarwin. Snap count has got to be at least in the twenties or thirties, I would guess, which is pretty good for your backup that like I'm yeah, yeah, I'm not special on the team where they're not doing as as much a twelve personnel as they were doing last year where you would have been like he was on the field maybe a lot more this year of doing a lot more eleven and so they're not doing any thirteen which some very little,

very little, yeah, very little. I've seen that a lot go away well and you know what will we say we wanted Witten and Frederick to help with and that was the red zone. And they've done pretty well in the red zone this year. I mean, I think this last game where they go one of two, I don't remember when the field goal was for for mar was it? They were in the red zone barely so they went one of two, one of two. I mean, they're they're best in the league in the red zone, I believe,

or they're certainly up there and way more time. I'm not confined and what's going on here with the red zone? If all the issues are fixed that we haven't been, you're entitled to that. Like they stay threw up a total stinker, Like you're allowed to have some reservations after. But Witten is a part of that. He scored two touchdowns and Frederick, I think you're part of that too. So that's kind of what we wanted to see. And has Jarwin done anything against anyone other than the Giants? Yeah,

the Saints. He set up that touchdown. Yeah, it's a nice catch. But I'm saying, I mean he's got four touchdowns, they're all against the Giants. I mean, if we need more of a sample size for the red zone, I need more of a sample size that you know his progress is being you know, impeded here by by Whitten. All right, we appreciate you guys joining us. We are back tomorrow. Yeah. Actually, our time's going to change a

little bit. Tomorrow. We will be starting at noon. Actually for the next three Fridays, we will be starting at noon. So makes you check us out then to live for Nick Eatman in locker room tomorrow. We got all right, we'll figure it out. We'll good, We'll figure it out, all right. For Dave Hellman, Nick Eatman, Amber Garcia. I'm Derek Eilden. This has been the Break Live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.