Cowboys Break: Needing Answers

We are live from the s WBC Mortgage studios at the Star and lots of things breaking this morning. Things We got to talk about Hall of Fame announcements. A couple of guys have gotten into the Hall of Fame, one glaring omission. We'll talk about that a little bit.

We'll also talk a little bit about the coach staff, a few guys that have been reported to be added to this team, although there's been no official report by the team, but we'll talk about some of those names, and then we'll finish the process of what we were doing a few weeks ago when we were talking about the offensive players who are free agents and whether you want to see them come back. We're now going to

flip over the defensive side of the ball. We'll go through some of those names for you guys, give you some perspective on what's going to be happening here in free agency. How's everybody filling day? I feel great, great, I know you're doing. Congratulations Dave. I've said before, but I'm gonna say it on the air. Congratulations to you and Yo Tigers. Thank you National champion. David Hellman appreciate it. If we could get the intro changed to that, that

would be cool. But nobody wants to listen to me talk about LSU. We can talk about You're in the midst of all of that happening. Somehow I found myself in the Tigers Instagram page and looking over like a thousand pictures of just the Tiger. Are you a fan now? Not? Poor Tiger got me in just looking at all these different pictures and comments like the captions, Yeah they're pretty funny. Good but um, congratulations to you and the Tigers. That

was a good game, fun watch. And now we go into almost drought season, probably football, probably Odell just giving money to Odell hand I was thinking, like, are they supposed to it was fake money? And winking and it was fake. That was so uncomfortable like that. That shouldn't be on camera. Now, how are we doing this? Anyway? Let's jump in, right, let's jump in. Let's talk a little bit about the Pro Football Hall of Fame. We found out on Sunday, Uh that Jimmy Johnson gets into

the Hall of Fame. To me, very very well deserved a guy who had two Super Bowls here with the Cowboys. You can talk to the people in Miami. They may have a little different opinion, but you can't deny a guy it gets two back to back Super Bowls deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. People in Cleveland have a different opinion of Bill Belichick. Absolutely, so, yeah, he's deserving. He ties Landry, I mean, Landry's got two, and Parcels has two. Two super bowls should get you

in s rare company. I mean, there's not a lot of guys got more than one. Not a lot of guys have one. It's not a lot of guys certainly have not just two super Bowls. But turning around, helping turn around. Sorry the franchise, you know that one of you know at three and thirteen team they were one of fifteen that they turned it around. It made it super two Super Bowls. I know it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but like he kicked but at Miami too,

Like he helped you know, the you all that cool stuff. Again, I know that's not pro football, but he was a badass every at every level of the sport. Yeah, it's yeah, absolutely well deserved. And I guess when you throw in that perspective, there aren't a lot of coaches that come from the college rinks. That doesn't happen half success NFL. Let alone have back to back Super Bowl teams that win. And by the way, the first year is year the

one and fifteen. So really, you're right, he built it like they built that, built a roster that competed for the Super Bowl four straight years and he won two of them that were very close the third year without him and then they wanted the fourth year with Switzer there. But I mean he helped build that that dynasty there. And then glad you said that word, because yeah, I

mean it's dwindling into the past. But I mean one of I don't know how many how many legit dynasties would you say that there have been in the Super Bowl era. It's like the Lombardi Packers, the seventies Steelers, the eighty eighties, forty nine Ers, the nineties Cowboys, and then the Patriots. That's I mean, that's probably it. Yeah, And so if you're on that list, then yeah, be in the Hall of Fame. Yep, no doubt. So I

had this question for you guys. I look at the fact that it last year when Jerry got into two years ago I'm sorry, was that two three years ago?

When Jerry got in the seventeen okay whatever, When Jared gets in the Hall of Fame, and as a part of his speech he mentions Jimmy Johnson and rightfully, so it seems like they've kind of had more of that kind of those kind of public Jimmy was there too, absolutely right um, And they've had more of those types of public friendly exchanges here in the last several years. Do you think this uh puts it or creates an opportunity now where Jerry puts him into the Ring of Honor?

I would hope so. And I would hope that the people that monitor comments of you know, posts and stories and see where they what well, the people that are I mean, you can tell where the fans think about this, and you know, the fans like to like to argue about anything that happens, like, well, that's cool. Why didn't this happen? Or didn't this happen? Yeah, I think that

that he should be in the Ring of Honor. Um. I don't think it's great to have guys in the Hall of Fame that aren't in the Ring of Honor. Is going to be close, if ever, since Walls made it a couple last year in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. But you know, it's it's a one man committee. It always has been. Jerry wants to do it. He can. And you know, I was standing right there with him one time when he made a comment that that I

turned and looked around. I don't know who was next to me, but I'm well, he's never getting in, so hopefully they things have been patched up, and I would imagine he does. That's the funny thing. I've been here since twenty thirteen, and I was going to bring up the Hall of Fame if you didn't like my experience here, is that the enmity there has died down. It seems like it on the outside of least like they've both

made flattering comments about each other. Jimmy came to his induction into the Hall of Fame, Jerry talked about him, and I don't know if they're friends, but it seems like they're friendly. That's my perception in seven years. And so I'm yeah, I'm like, I'm I don't know if I'm surprised that it hasn't happened, but I don't get the feeling that there's something preventing it from happening. Yeah, and so maybe this will be kind of like pushing the snowball down the hill, and I would expect it

to happen at some point for sure. Let's talk about Cliff Harris, another guy that's been waiting a very long time. He was a guy that was part of I think the All Decade team in the seventies and now finally gets to call to the Hall of Fame. Nick talk a little bit. Ab I know, for for a lot of us, we weren't around and didn't necessarily see him play or you know a lot about his career, But tell me why he was a Hall of Fame type player.

All right, Just for the record, I wasn't around either, but like, okay, we've got the jokes now this guy, but you know, a guy, his career is remarkable because back then in nineteen seventy, um, there was one hundred and twenty five Ricky free agents that they go to training camp. Right now, there's like twenty five and twenty three of them were defensive backs. So he's a guy from Washington Baptist, which is in a small school in Arkansas, and he's one of the guys and he's got to

make this team and he did. And not only that, he's ended up. He started that first year. If it's ten years, they Cowboys only missed the playoffs once, So that was you know, that wasn't just him. That was just shows that how great they were in the seventies. But um, he was always around the ball. I called him Captain crash It back when safeties really could go lower the boom. But he was more than that. He had twenty nine interceptions, I believe sixteen fumble recoveries, so

that's tied for second. And he's around the ball a lot. Him and Charlie Waters were great duo there in that safety position. And you know, he's he was the only defensive player in the All Decade Team that wasn't in the Hall of Fame. So on the defensive, on the defensive side of the ball, I believe there's one on the offensive. We'll talk about that too, But you know they've righted that wrong. He's deserving. But you know, it took a long time to getting the Ring of Honor. Two.

You know, tex Tram didn't put him in for a long time there in the eighties. He didn't get intil two thousand and four, I believe, So it took a while for him. Um, he was always linked with Charlie Waters. I just mentioned him. They were linked together, but he was better than Charlie and so it's like, well, you're putting them both end one end, and they decided, you know, he was better than Charlie in's certain aspects. Charlie Waters

was great in interceptions too. But I think I think Cliff Harris was just a dying and make safety that could that could do everything you wanted, a great athlete. And so I'm glad that he's getting in. It's well deserved for him. Yeah, it's I don't want to take too much away from these guys that have gotten this really huge news that they're they're getting into the Hall of Fame. But the glaring ole mission year, obviously is Drew pearson uh form of wide receiver, the original eighty

eight of the Cowboys. And the reason why this seems weird to me and Nick when I walked in this morning, I saw you in your office and my first eyes I don't need to go talk to Nick about this because I wasn't around to see this to be able to for myself say no, Drew Pearson is a Hall of Fame player. I've seen highlights of him, obviously, I've heard of the hell Mary and and all the different stories that he's attached to when it comes to Cowboys history.

But what I don't understand is how a guy like him, who was a you know, a first team member of the All Decade Team in the seventies, a guy that has I think three Pro Bowls, three All pros, first team All pros um and and then a guy like Harold Carmichael, which, by the way, I don't think it's a situation where Carmichael doesn't deserve to get in, but you look at the two careers and you see the Carmichael never made an All Pro that he was only a four time pro bowler on one more time was

he a pro bowler? And he was a second team All Decade player in the seventies, where Pearson was a first team All Decade player. And it leads me with the question of why why is there this omission that continues to happen. There must be something more that I just don't know about why he's not getting in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, that that play right there, Yeah, we're watching the catch. This is the hell Mary, obviously, it's the vikings with the play right before that, you know,

set it up. And I just think, Derek, I think that to answer your question, I mean, I don't have the answer. I wish I did. But the thing about it is is that when you look at the history of the Cowboys and you tell the story of these iconic moments, he's in all of them. I mean not all of them, He's in a lot of them. Hell, Mary, Yeah he caught it. But if you go back and just think of remember that game Clint Longley came off the bench and led the Cowboys to a touch Yeah

it was Drew Pearson caught it. I remember the game Danny White against the Falcons, had those two touchdowns in the fourth quarter, and yeah, Pearson caught him both, you know, I mean Drew Pearson, even Tony dor sais ninety nine yard touchdown run, He's down there block and that doesn't happen if he's not there. He's he's around in all these moments, and I just don't understand. Is it is it yards? Is it stats? Is it the flares? That

is it the dramatic I mean Lynce won. Lynce One's in the ring in the Hall of Fame because he was a Super Bowl MVP. You know, he's got three hundred and thirty six catches. David LaFell has three hundred in ninety or Peerless Price has four hundred catches Mohammed Sanu. So it's not just about stats, you know, it's about great catches. Well, I told you earlier. Well let's put David Tyreegan. I mean, if we're gonna do that, if you know so, It's just it's sad because he doesn't

know what criteria. I've got the stats, I've got the I've got the dramatic plays, I've got the Super Bowl story. Everything you need except for being in and this is they could have righted the wrong and they didn't. Yeah, and I mean it if it didn't happen this year where they had a bigger class because of the centennial, that makes you think it's not gonna happen anytime soon, which yeah, I can't lay out a better case than that,

And it just it does make you wonder. You know, there was the decade long argument about like whether t O would get in because he was such a jerk. And I don't mean I Drew Pearson has always been lovely in the very limited interactions that I've had with him. But it makes me think that, like, well, did people

think he's a jerk? Like not like it? Yeah, I've never heard that, but that's what it makes me think, because I can't think of a reason fans didn't like him on Draft Day, very true put him in the Hall of Fame just for that speech on it, right, Like yeah, it's that's a bummer and I'm I'm gonna talk out of both sides of my mouth a little bit,

but like it's kind of a bummer. How it's such a spectacle now, like getting into the Hall of Fame because like he was looked like he was in his kitchen this morning or something like had a whole watch party. It's like watching a guy not get drafted, his big spectacle and then he just gets his heart ripped out. But at the same time, it was so cool how Jimmy Johnson found out live on TV. And I got emotional watching Troy Aikman get emotional and it was lovely.

So it's cool when a guy gets good news. I guess it just it sucks to see somebody get their heart ripped out on TV. You know. The ironic part of those two receivers is that in nineteen eighty four, Drew Pearson was, you know, expected to have another great year for the Cowboys, still a veteran guy. He's played, you know, ten years, but he was still doing it, still playing well, and he gets in a car wreck.

I believe his brother was within the car and passed away. Yeah, so his brother was in the car, and then he was hurt to the point where he didn't play again. So he retired in nineteen eighty four, and the Cowboys signed Harold Carmichael just briefly in nineteen eighty four. He only played a few games. He made one catch or whatever, and you know that was that was the end of that. But a long time eagle, right, a long time eagle.

And then he goes and so in that nineteen eighty four season, it was Carmichael that goes and plays for the Cowboys due person didn't. And now here they are kind of being compared against each other. Carmichael has a lot better stats, but he played longer, he played longer. But yeah, he's got he's got more stats, more touchdown yards and catches. But like you said, not not those moments of really you know, and when you look at it from the standpoint of just the recognition All pros, yeah,

and that kind of stuff. I mean, Drew had more all he had three more All Pro selections than than did Carmichael. So it's it sucks. I mean, I don't know how. I don't know. And I think that frustration you saw when he's catching and slams his hands down because he realizes, I mean, if not then went, which it's a it's a bummer. I bet he still gets in, but hopefully it happens while he can still enjoy it, right, I mean, you know, if it doesn't happen for thirty

more years then that would be tragic. Well, they do have the senior commit that still every year presents. I think it's two or three guys that get in every year. And maybe, honestly, this is one of the reasons why I wanted to bring it up on the show today, is because a lot of times with these kinds of things, it takes that ground swell of people saying what is going on here for there to be enough attention pointed to it and say, hey, guys, you really need to

right this wrong. And I think that's part of our responsibility is a part of that too, and say, man, this guy deserves it, and if he's not getting in, then people need to speak out about it and say this is a travesty. He needs to be in. And you know, one of the we don't we weren't there watching all these but one of the guys that did get in Steve Sable and his dad d Sable. You know,

for NFL Films. NFL Films has provided us a lot of these moments where we've seen this, So it's not like you can say, well, you weren't there, I wasn't there. I mean, we get a chance to see the highlights and sometimes they speak for themselves and that's really all that you have in certain cases. But I mean, he's got everything you need other than being there. So yeah,

and again I'm I'm very interested. I think at some point this offseason, I'd love to get somebody like Goose Goslind, who is a voter and presents a lot of the guys from Dallas on the show, just to ask him because there has to be I'm just I'm just believing there has to be some reason that when they look at it objectively, they're coming up and have come up with over year over year over year that he's not quite the guy there, and I just went, I'd like

to hear another perspective of why that is, because it just doesn't seem very apparent to me. Right now. All right, let's do this. Let's go and take our first break. When we come back, we'll talk a little bit about the coaching staff. Nothing's official, but there have been some names that have been added to it. Will throughout some of those and one guy that you guys may remember from just a few years ago that's been with this coaching staff before. We'll talk about that when you come

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their elevation tumblers. An Auterbox elevation tumblers come in three sizes, a ten ouncer, a twenty ouncer, and even a sixty four ounce growler. Check out all the colors and sizes of their elevation tumblers at auterbox dot com. Back to the Break Welcome Back. It is the second segment of the Break Life in the s WBC Mortgage Studios. At the start, we're gonna talk a little about the coaching staff. Cowboys haven't announced anything officially, and they usually don't until

they have the whole staff symbol. But I don't think I don't think they announced anything officially at all last year. We just kind of go somewhere like, oh, by the way, they're here. But I will say this, in years when they've had like a like a big turnover, which it sounds like it's going to be this year, they have announced it. And it seems like they've had like a little time with the media where you could kind of

talk to the guys. But we'll see this was before you, I think, say, that's never happened in my time here. They've turned over the staff a decent bit over the last two years. Not this much though, right, No, not this much, but I mean, yeah, yeah, coach, but in eighteen and seventeen, I mean they've they've turned it over

a little bit. It's fine whatever, I mean basically what it sounds like at this point from what we've heard, there's only one guy, maybe two that would be holdovers from the previous coaching staff, which is significant, very very Significantlen and nust Meyer Kellen right, kelln and nust Meyer and then if you want to throw in a forgot about Nustmyer. But if you want to throw in sanje Lyle, who is still under contract, there's not been an official

word one way or the other. We're hearing rumors that he's not going to be here, and that there are reports out there saying I think he actually even said that he doesn't expect to be back. I think I saw that a dam tweet. But but that being said, I don't think there obviously there hasn't been an official announced, So if you want to throw him in, you could say, well maybe, but right now there are only two that are being reported that will be back, and there's a

lot of turnover. When we started thinking about the head coach, Mike McCarthy, and then Kelly Moore comes back as offensive coordinator, Mike Nolan defensive coordinator, John fossil a special team's coach, John Thompson, Jim tom Sula defensive line, Scott McCurley, linebacker, Maurice Linguist shout out to the Ques defensive backs coach.

Then you got Doug must nuss Meyer quarterback coach, Joe Philbin offensive line, Lundy Wells as tight ends coach, which I want to be interested to hear what you think of that, Nick, because I know you and I have had some conversations about the possibility of maybe a Jason Witten being there, but McCarthy got the job. Derek. Yeah, Nick never said tends now. I said that, and I thought you agree with me, but maybe not again. Jason Witten didn't go through the Big Ten network to cover

games on Saturdays at eleven. He went to Monday Night Football like he's going he's going big or going home. And I think that's really what's happening. I don't think that's gonna happen. I don't think that's what He's gonna have to work it up a little bit. Yeah, you gotta. You can't start at head coach in the NFL. Who does he coach? Steve Kerr? I mean maybe so, I think he was trying to be Steve Kerr. And yeah, I don't think that's gonna happen now. Probably not all right.

But but one name is interesting to me that's been tossed out there and uh and it has been linked to the Cowboys. The running back spot is Skip Pete, a guy that was here from I think two thousand and seven to twelve, UM as running backs coach. Uh Nick talked me a little about what you know of Skip Pete for the time he was here, some of the guys he coached and what that looked like. Yeah, he was on Wade Phillips staff. He coached the Julius Jones and Marian Barber for that first year that he

was here, and then um, they drafted Felix Jones. I guess they drafted DeMarco Murray. Um. He wasn't around for Murray's great year there in fourteen. But you know, he's he's a he's a coach, a veteran guy. You know, brother of Rodney Pete. He's been around a while football family for sure, and uh, you know, a personable guy. You'll you'll just like Gary Brown, I mean the same thing. I mean, not just like him, but like he'll he'll talk to you in the hall and he'll he'll have

some conversations. He's he's a fun guy to be around. So but as far as coach, I mean, it's really in this case, it's do you relate to Zeke? You know which you know, can you can you get him to play and not just play the running back coaches is in the meetings and being engaged and and and practice and things like that. I thought Gary did a nice job there. So if they're going to replace that, I mean that's line one is how you work with Zeke. Yeah, good point. He has been with Todd Gurley for the

last several years up and with the Rams. He's good. He's pretty good. I just you know, you talk about like overcorrecting a lot of times, like, well, they tried the guy who'd never been a head coach, and they they fixed that by getting the guy who's been a head coach for twelve years. Like look and it's all reported, but look at the resumes on this coaching staff, Like, you know, we had the first year's special teams coordinator and the first year offensive coordinator and all these guys

who had never done it before. And it is not the case now because I mean, Skip Pete's been coaching in the NFL since the nineties. Wells the tight end coach, he's actually started at LSU shout out Tigers, but he's been in the league for ten years. Fossil has been in the year in the league forever. Joe Philbin half of these guys have been a head coaches at some point, So m Tom Seula has been a head coach, Mike Nolan's been a head coach. Can't critics, can't say they

don't know what they're doing. You think they could be a problem that many guys that have been a head coach. Seems like there was a time here with the Cowboys when that was the case, when they had a lot of former head coaches on the staff. And I don't think it's a problem just because as long as again, as long as the person who is who is the head coach hired those guys, Yeah, then there's a clear line.

They understand who's ultimately calling the shot, and they're stepping into the role knowing that's the guy I'm ultimately reporting too, so I'm going to work within his program. And I think personally, most head coaches probably look at it like, I know what it's like to be that guy. I want to do everything I can to support that guy, knowing how hard it is if you don't have on

your staff everybody pulling in the same direction. Well, I think what the cool thing that I'm seeing is them bringing in all these different guys with different perspective, different backgrounds and from the outside, because ic always are used to bringing up their own guys, like promoting somebody within the organization, and to me, I mean that was part of the problem, is you don't necessarily have the kind of experience that you need and the kind of different

mentality that you need also in order to fix a problem, because an outsider looks at things very different than an insider. So I'm really excited about that aspect. Only time will tell. But it's cool, not cool, because when I think of people's dog I get sad, especially when you know all these people and transitioning like that, it's kind of hard.

But as a fan, as a Cowboys fan, it's very exciting and promising once again to see a whole new staff with the young group of guys that you have as players, which essentially and we're you know, we've been talking about free agency and all of those, but essentially this team is gonna stay pretty intact, I think, by the group of guys that we've been talking about, and especially if they keep Dak and Amari Cooper, so that's promising.

One of my biggest concerns was always like the life expectancy of players and the Cowboys kind of wasting the time that they had of all the young talent and kind of letting them walk away. But things might be finally turning around. And I hate this because every year, once again, when I say I am done with this team,

I am upset. This is ridiculous every time, although this is a whole new scenario, but I'm always back in and feeling excited and saying, Okay, that's every fan though, how many fans, every fan of every team in every sport. So it makes it fun, right when they say it's so fun When they say I've been a fan since the sixties or the seventies or whatever and I'm done, I'm like, you're not done. If you're done, you would

have been done in eighty nine. You would have been done in eighty eighty nine, and you know ninety seven and two thousand and one and two and three. You always find yourself finding different reasons as to why this year is the year and why this year will be different than the other. Until this changes, that about until this changes and I'm pointing at the star behind this year. Until that changes that, you're just gonna You're gonna keep

getting sucked back in. That's that's what happened. And by the way, it's every team in the league, like every every fan does this. Why would Why wouldn't you want to get sucked in? Like they made the changes that that that you want them to make. Like you know, there's talent on this team. You got they got rid of the coach you don't like so much, they're shuffling up the staff, not talking about you, amber talk about generally the rhetorical you. It's like, right, I would feel

a lot, I would feel boundless optimism for this team. Well, like I mentioned a few weeks ago, when we were talking about this and and me asking the question as to, Okay, how long do you expect things to kind of start working together and connect when you're going through such a big transition, And that is my concern again this is you just have to go through it to see how it turns out, and it's part of that kind of process.

But it always brings me back in, Okay, how much time are we going to have these young guys playing for the team, and how long is it going to take this whole coaching staff to kind of start clicking together? And like you guys mentioned sometimes it happens right away with new coaching changes. But because I have not lived through that and seen it happen with my own eyes, that always concerns me. As two, Okay, how long does it take to for it to click? But you know, sorry,

what stayed, what's staying the same. And this is honestly what excites me most. The guys that are gonna be talking to Dak Prescott are the only holdovers on this team. You're keeping Kellen Moore, good point. You're moving Doug nuss Meyer to quarterbacks coach, which I know he was the tight ends coach, but I'm sure he's got a relationship

with Dak. He's a former quarterback. He also am looking at his resume, it's in retrospect, it's weird that he was coaching tight ends in first place, Like, yeah, he was a quarterbacks coach for his entire career, or a quarterback coach every night of his of his life. Isn't his son one of the best quarter One is a coveted high school quarterback who is looking at LSU Texas and Texas It's fine, that's fine, We'll give you that for now. Yeah, sure, we're champions. We don't care. I mean,

I don't want to make this about myself. But the whole time Amber was just given that spiel I was like, look as somebody whose team just won the way it is worth it. Man. And by the way, the last couple of years, like you did not go into this year thinking that what's gonna happen now? So yeah, that's not at all. And another they've had doubts every game

because I listened to him upstairs. It's like, I don't know about being a fan is agony of the time for that one percent, that's just like worth it, definitely worth it. But you know you're asking the question of can't they turn this thing around? Think about you know, can this coaching staff, can this Can this new group give you, you know another touchdown every game? Just just another touchdown or you know four points here on offense and you know one field goal stop on defense or

something like that. Let's just say seven more points. Seven more points each game gives you four or five more wins. Yeah, And and the unique part is is I've argued with me for you thinking that what happened last year is going to carry over into this hold on hold on I I know, I've argued with Mickey over and over for years. He was like, well, these four games, if you get an extra field goal, you win. There's always four or five games where you're like, yeah, but you

got lucky to win this. In this particular case, it's very unique. They blew out just about every team that they beat. They lost these close games. So it is kind of a weird thing because they were clearly better than the teams they played and just not good enough on some of the other ones. And I think if you can get better in that sense, I think that you can have a quick turnaround. I think they can win four or five of those games. That's a big

difference in the record, and then that change. And my belief is, and again this is just my belief. My belief is that the reason why you saw those kinds of swings is because of the inexperience on this staff. It suggested to me that they were good enough to beat bad teams and to blow them out when they

got into games with really good teams. They didn't have that extra amount of experience that could maybe get them over a hump when they're in a rough part of a game and trying to figure out how to dig their way out. They didn't have enough experience to be able to do that, and that personally, that's how I

look at this season. So for me, if you're talking now coaching staff that has a ton of experience, then you take a team like this and maybe they can take those games and win half of those games that they lost very close. If they win half of those, now you got a whole different season. You're in the playoffs, and you feel pretty good about what they can do in the playoffs against some of these better teams NFC especially.

I mean, let's let's say it's even just two two games and they're ten and six, and I mean, have you been watching these playoffs? Like I know the Texans choked, but like the Titans are in the AFC title game, it hasn't been in the vikings beating you know, home the Why can't I talk the same to get in won a home game against the Saints, all you gotta do is be there. Yeah, and we are seeing that play out in front of us. And I still kind of think it's gonna be one seed verse one seed

in the super Bowl, but who knows. We'll see and to just speak to the point good and see, I mean, Kansas City is the two. Oh wow, you're the one. You're right. I'm sorry, you're right, but you're teams with home field advantage. Who won third? You're right? Wow? Yeah, Baltimore freaking lost. I still can't. That was crazy, boy, you got dominated. What's like, didn't even come close? Did you see? All the comments on that are like, whoa, they must fire the analytics coach there, you know, and

then it comes back to analytics. Oh yeah, I thought analytics were saving football. You know. Well, I mean, and I do believe this though, is like I mean, it's so cyclical. Everybody's so small and so fast. It's almost like a no brainer that a two hundred and fifty pound running back is just annihilating people in the playoffs, Like, and it's gonna and now everybody's gonna be like, no, see, you gotta run the ball, and they're gonna try to get back to running the ball, and on and on

and on we go. There you go. And just to answer your question, Amber, you look at just in this this season alone, you can look at a team like matte Floor's team in Green Bay. They are in the NFC Championship game. And then you look at the opposite in that coin, you got Freddy Kitchens. It was a first year coach in Cleveland and now it is fired, right, So it can go either way. When you have a brand new coaching staff, they can be very very good.

You can also be very well. And also Matt Matt Lafleur, you know, he took over Mike McCarthy's teams, and you know they just needed that extra push. And in Freddy Kitchens took over Hugh Jackson's teams, who took over everyone else's. I mean, I say it's it's almost like a cyclical every year. He's not gonna say it on the record, but I would love to know, because like the thing about Mike McCarthy for years was that Ted Thompson wouldn't

go out of his way to give him help. And really, the thing that's pushing the Packers toward the Super Bowl at least a big factor is they dropped fat stacks on pass rushers in the offseason. They got Preston Smith's Darius Smith, Mike McCarthy's probably like where the hell was this when I was the head coach? And he actually made the comment last year, I got you. Yeah, he made the last week. I'm actually gonna have more input here than I had all those years in Green Bay.

And we know here he's not the decision maker. It is a it's done by committee. But he says he's gonna have way William put on that kind of stuff than he did in Green Bay. So and he will. I mean people, there's a misperception that Jerry goes out in here and just says I do it my way. That is not true. Jerry listens. In fact, the Jerry Pyte listens more than he should. He listens to a lot of people, right, It gets a lot of voices, a lot of input, and you know he will be

one of them. Will McClay will continue to be one of them. Stephen Jones, of course, so it he'll have he'll have an input. And Jason Garrett had an input to I mean like that that was that was part of it. I mean that that happens. Yes, he's the GM, but he listens to people. That's somebody asked me that the other night. You know, you know, if Nussmers moving to quarterbacks coach, it looks like John Kitten has done here which I would have liked to see him stay.

It looked like his relationship. But no, Yeah, if I could have picked anybody besides Kellen to stay on the staff, it probably would have been him. But at the same time, I gotta let my new head coach hire the guys that he wants. Like, you're like, oh my god, he didn't keep Kitten, that's a terrible idea. Well, if they'd kept them, then Jerry makes all the decisions and slightly so, yeah, you got you gotta let McArthur Leon wants to be

in alved In. This to Leon, let's still under a contract and he's actually coaching this week with Gary Brown, I believe at the East West Shrine game. That's whether they're coaching that or the either that game or the NFLPA game, one of the two, but they're actually coaching

the North South team whatever coaches. You had a chance to sit down with with coach McCarthy last week and talk to him, and one of the things that you mentioned him was the importance of holding over some guys to be able to kind of have a perspective on what they knew of guys before this coaching staff got here. What do you say about that, and what was your take on Well, I mean he said that, yeah, that's been part of coaching, you know, like a I don't

know if you would say like a unwritten rule. But when you do take over a staff, you you don't want to just wipe the slate clean because there are these guys that you you look at and go, Okay, well, why didn't he play well last year? Or what was the thing? You know, you're just nice to have a couple of guys on the staff that knows, hey, you might want to coach him differently or this, And you know, when you're talking about strength coaches and trainers, you do

want some holdovers there. So he said, it's just a balance. It's a balance of finding guys that are that are new, that that teach the message in a different way, but also can relate to the players and kind of can understand them. So it won't it won't be surprising to me if there is a defensive coach, maybe it's Leon, maybe some other guys that can stay over. I don't even know what's up with Greg Jackson. I guess he's he's he always kind of flies under the radar. There's

a safety's coach. But I've heard him say about nine words since he got the job here so publicly at least. So the one thing that you can say is that you know Will is going to be here. And that's the guy that when it comes to a player evaluation,

it's probably top guy in the organization. So he'll be here to be able to give a lot of that perspective regardless of who the coaches are about what the players are, and what they expect from them and what they you know, what they think they'll be able to do. All Right, we're gonna take our final break. When we come back, we're gonna get into the defensive side of the ball. Talk about some free agents. Remember last time we did this. We're gonna put him into three categories.

Make it work, if it works, or not gonna work. We'll do that when we come right. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Want to use what the pros use? How about the official men's skincare brand or the Dallas Cowboys Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Black skincare favorites plus a full size and

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America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down based on GWS one s course in Chamber twenty nine. Back to the break Welcome back. It is the final segment of the Break Life for the SWBC market mortgage studios at the Star, Let's talk about free agency Cowboys. We talked at our on our last show about the offensive free agents and special teams free agents. I'm sorry specialists free agents that the Cowboys have.

But i want to talk about the defensive side of the ball and I'm gonna throw out names. I want you guys to put them in three different categories. And the categories are make it work. You know the words, they are a priority. You need to keep them if it works. So that means if we can get a good contract that that makes sense I'd like to see them back and then not gonna work. That means let them walk, don't worry about it. It's all good. You

can move on, you can find better talent. Let me say this about if it works, because that seems like that's any real easy one to throw in. If it works also means that they go to March eighteenth, that believes the date for free agency, and get to test the waters. Yeah, so that's that's rights a risk there is. I just saying, well, if it works, if it works, also that you go to a team that has a lot more money than you and they pay him and this is a big deal for these guys, are all right.

So let's start with a guy that got here at middle of the season but had big impact, Michael Bennett. What do we fall amber m I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't mind him being here again, but for some reason, I just don't see him having another year here with the Cowboys, whether that's for money or whether he's hitting Has he ever talked about retiring soon? Yeah? Yeah, So he's hitting that time frame where he's kind of ready to step away from the game. And you know, when

guys started speaking like that it's coming pretty soon. So I just don't know. I probably don't think that the money would work for another year with the Cowboys, so I would say bye. I think I'm stealing the talking point from either you or Rob. But it felt noteworthy that his brother Martellis came to the final home game. I didn't think about that, but yeah, that makes I mean, we've never seen him at another game, Like Marty Bee's

got a bunch of stuff going on. He writes children's books, and he took the time company took the time out of his day to go to a week seventeen you know game that think he actually lives in LA does he know? I don't he doesn't live here. Yeah, ahead anyway, but and I mean playoffs were kind of on the line, but like not really, like you know, the season's probably gonna end that day, and he came, true, Nick did not, But it's fine, you're just taking you to wait for

day to get back true good point. I don't know. I don't know Michael Bennett's mind, but I saw that and I was like, I wonder if this is going to be his last football game? Yeah, um, if if he wants to come back. I'm if it works, I'm more than happy not going to break the bank. But I I he obviously played well. I liked what he brought to the locker room. I'd be all for it. You know. There was also they reworked the contract in the middle of the season, I think, to make him

a free agent. So, um, there's some there was some speculation that that was part of the deal in the first place. Yeah, you know, and you can really get deep into the speculation of things that he's done in the past, during the anthem and things he didn't do this year, and maybe maybe there was some agreement to all of that that maybe this is why he's a free agent. If that's the case, then he probably wouldn't come back. So I think they have to be part

ways there. I will say on the surface, just just if you're talking about the play I would make him, well, it would be between him and Quinn. One of them to me needs to be a priority because I think that if you look at how the Cowboys rushed the pass this year, I think those two guys were as successful as anybody on this team and doing so, are you bringing up Quinn now? Not necessarily, we could get to him because I'm just I guess the point I'm

making is for Michael Bennett. For me, he would be a guy that I might make a priority again depending on how I look at both those two guys, and I would definitely make one of them a priority. I think you need one of them because I don't necessarily see anybody else on this team that I think is ready to be that role that either one of those guys played. Yeah, let's go ahead and moved to Robert Quinn. O, well that since we did it, what did you have

on that one? I would absolutely he needs to be a priority, and no offense to Michael Bennett, but at this stage of his career, I just I don't know if he can be what Robert Quinn can be, which is a full time bookend ten sack guy. Like I don't know if Bennett is doing that. If he gets sixty five seventy five percent of the snaps, I don't know if he can hold up. He's I think he's turning thirty four or thirty five this year. Quinn is thirty, which he's still got. It reminds me a lot of

DeMarcus Swear. Honestly, you know had a downturn in Dallas. He was one of the only talented players on the team, didn't wasn't great for a couple of years, went to a much more talented team, was still pretty damn good. And the other thing is, I know the markets changed over the last six years. He didn't break the bank. Like he got a nice contract with Denver, but it wasn't nuts. He did three years for thirty million. If you tell me I can get Robert Quinn for that,

I'm so on board. It's not even funny because the funny like, there's a misconception that the Cowboys aren't going to have any money when they're done paying Dak and Amari. That's not true. They got money. They got plenty, They got a lot of money. Because you got to think about this. If you have twenty six free agents, that

means twenty six guys are coming off the books. So yeah, that's a lot of guys to sign, but that's a lot of guys that are not getting paid anymore until you have to, you know, pay them again, so they have money. Robert Quinn is a rare situation of a Pro Bowl caliber starter who probably wouldn't just absolutely blow the bank on the open market because of his age, because of you know, you know, downward trend. You're paying for what you're getting, not for what's already happened, all

that stuff. So I think you could get him for a modest fee by free agency standards, and that's what makes it appealing because then you think about what you're losing in the secondary, I mean, and you can't replace it all in the draft. And so that's a guy if you could get him back here for two or three years at a expensive but modest price, Hell yeah, Amber, I think out of that group, I would try definitely

to keep Robert Quinn. I think there are other guys the tackle position too that can be changed and maybe upgraded, and hopefully with the new coaching staff they can improve because obviously there was lack of productivity last year without I mean, when you look at all these guys, they're talented, and you were expecting the defensive line to be very productive this year and it just wasn't happening for whatever reason.

Especially and you know, we've talked about DeMarcus Lawrence and the big money contract that he got and although he was he didn't play bad, but it wasn't what you were expecting. So I would hope that they make smarter decisions this year and that hopefully the coaches can bring in and change what was happening there and figure out what the problem was last year and make it better that way. But I would try to keep Quinn. You know, one wildcard to all this is what kind of scheme

that they're playing. I mean, I think that they're gonna still play a four to three, but Jim Mike Nolan has had a lot of success with three four. I don't know if they'll make that switch. But remember about Robert Quinny went to the Dolphins in the three four scheme. It wasn't didn't really work out. They got rid of them. They're ready to trade him for what sixth round pick because he wasn't a good fit there. I think that a four three scheme is where he needs to be.

So they need to figure that part out too, because that'll affect his decision on where he goes. Right, all right, let's let's move on. Let's talk about Believe Collins. Same thing about the scheme. I mean, you know, let's assume three until until total otherwise, man, Yeah, that's where the issue is for me, it's the defensive tackle spot. I think they need to change their priorities there, make sure and really upgrade that. Don't try to find you know,

because you found Antoine Woods. That's fine, you tried to find Nick Hayden. I mean trying to find these guys. Get give me the guy that's picked. I know they picked in Tristan Hill, but do it again, do it again? Yeah. But but the words always been, and you guys can can correct me if I'm wrong, but the words always been that that Marinelli didn't necessarily always agree with some of the guys that they would have maybe considered drafting who would have been really great or at least were

high profile. Um, you know ti talent type guys on that defensive line. Now that he's gone, presumably is this a situation? I get it, But do you do you do you presume at this point that maybe that opens the door for them to at least have a different perspective because the guy that's in the room saying, hey, I don't think we need that guy is no longer here. Yes, and it's one of the going back to AG's point, is like that, like I'm excited about so much stuff

because it's different. Like you know, last year and every year for the last seven years, you're like, well, they don't like safety and they don't like spending big resources on defensive tackles. Don't know that that's true anymore. It theoretically could be, but we don't know that. And we know Will and his staff take heavy amounts of input from the coaching staff. We know every year around April the narrative starts to change when the coaches really start

to dive into the tape. And it'll be fascinating to see what Jim tom Sula and some of these other guys think, because I think it's gonna be different. Yeah, I don't know if that means they're going to draft the safety or a defensive tackle at seventeen. But again, it's it's fresh and it's new, and you can't sit here and say, well, we hate safeties because these guys

might not. The other guys did, but they're gone. Ally Collins, for some reason, I feel like his time here is just he did what he needed to do for you, gave you what he needed to give you, and that's it. I see. The cow was kind of moving on from him. And trying to upgrade the position. Now that he was a bad he was a pretty good player and he lasted a good while. But I think it's time to transition from him. I don't think that they'll be able to compete with the money. I think that some team.

You think he's gonna get it like a big off, Yeah, I do. I think so somebody will will figure out what he does and go, you know, this is exactly the type of guy that we need. I think they'll they'll let him test free agency, they'll want to come, they'll say all the things that they want him to come back, and before you know it, on day two a free agency, he's going to have some seventy million dollar deal with Jacksonville or something like that. It wouldn't

surprise me. I don't know. I don't know about not that high, and I don't know about the number. But I think I think he'll get a contract that'll surprise people. Yeah. I mean he plays three technique, he's capable of getting six sacks. Yeah, he's got a lot of pressure for that position. So it's should the Cowboys be really considering bringing him back with a different guy in his ear? They might they might though that That's what we talked about last you know, the last time we saw this

with Parcels. He had a different vision of Flozell Adams than the Cowboys had before. Maybe he comes in and says, we are signing Malik. You kidding me? I signed Malik before I signed a Mark. I mean, I'm not saying he says that, but he could. I mean, just based off of what Tom Sula and him what really won

on their defense. These conversations are a bummer because it makes me you know, I don't mean to sound like I don't think he's a good player, but that to me is rather than try to get into a bidding war, you draft well and replace that. He was pick sixty seven, third round pick, Like you should be able to find that production again without spending crazy resources on it. Should. I mean, that's and that's the pressure that's on the front office is finding those also. Sorry to keep going

with this, but there's factors on everything. If I know that Tyrone Crawford's coming back, and hey, I think you can get him at at a cheaper price, maybe I think I think he is. I think he's going to be back, and I think he will will be an understricted free agent until twenty one, but they may be able to do some think they can work on his deal a little bit. I think he comes back. I think they missed him a lot last year, so you know,

would make him a tackle. Yeah, well the other and I know you're gonna get to him if we don't run out of time. But I'd be a lot more willing to resign Malie Collins if I know I don't have a shot at Byron Jones. But if i'd have a shot at Byron Jones, I'd rather use that money there, and it all ties together. We will probably not get there to Byron Jones today. I got a few more defensive a linement we gotta get to. But we will get to that. If not today, then again next week.

Let's talk about a couple of guys that I think are kind of in a similar boat, Christian Covington carry Hyder. What do you guys think from a standpoint of those guys coming back again? These were hired guns that you kind of brought in this free agency. I hope they could give you something at times. Made a couple of plays here and ne'er turn some heads every once in a while. But what do you think about them going forward? I wouldn't you know they're gonna sleep well if they

don't come back. I mean if if they sign with someone else, I think they'll be fine. But I do think Hyder might be a guy that if it works out, he can come back. I mean, you do need some depth on the defensive. Defensive, I mean they don't. They don't have Taco obviously, and I mean these are guys that they were trying to get on this team for the last few years. I don't think Dorn's Armstrong has turned the corner to the point where you're like, oh, you know he's the savior. I mean, you don't have

any answers there. And if Quinn and Bennett leave, then I mean you gotta do something. They need the bodies. You need the bodies, and I think I think Hyder is pretty good. But again, if somebody pays it more, I think he's gone. It's a cop out too. It goes back to the point is like I don't I don't know what these guys value yet, Like it's a good guess. You know, they bring in Kerry Hyder. These are guys that Rod looked at and was like, oh, yeah,

he can do what I want them to do. This staff might have a completely different idea, or to Nick's point, they could be like, oh, hell yeah, this guy's perfect for what we want to do. And if that's the case, bring them both back. I thought they're both they were both solid, they're both good locker room dudes. That's fine with me. But it doesn't make or break anything. I think it's just going to depend on what they value. Covington was a little disappointing in the sense that he

just didn't make that much of an impact. And I know that that position is not going to but there were chances to do that. I mean, they had to go out and get Michael Bennett because you know, Tristan Hill wasn't doing what they wanted him to do, and there was opportunities for Covington to kind of to make a splash. Every down again. He would, but it just it wasn't to the point where I thought he might

be a little bit better than that. Yeah, honestly, that's that's kind of what I expected from him, was that, especially at that position. There would be a handful of times this year where you would notice him and be like, wow, that was was pretty good. Now, the fact that they had some games where they just couldn't stop the run. That's why I wonder a little bit about a lot of these defensive linemen. Was that a matter of scheme?

Was that a matter of them just not doing their jobs? Well, that's where I think the question really for me comes with a lot of these guys that are free agents on the defensive line. He's a neutral guy. He's one of those that's not really going to push the pocket either way. He's not gonna get blown off the ball back into the you know, the safety, and he's not always gonna which is a horrible thing one time that you just kind of hold your ground a little bit.

So that's there's something to be said for that. But I mean depends on how much you're paying a guy to do, how I see it. For those two guys, it depends what I do with these other starters. Are you keeping them? If so, then I would try to upgrade from those backups positions in the rotation and all that. Or if you are making a change in those starters, then I would maybe consider keeping those just to keep.

Like not that you need a familiar face, but somebody that you know what has done here and knows, although they're not gonna know because you got to hold your coaching staff. But I don't know. I like one of the two to be a constant. You know, I wouldn't necessarily prefer to replace both. I would just replace one. Let's not forget too about defensive tackle Antoine Woods. It's probably going to be a suspension. You're gonna have a suspension for the first four games of the season. I

mean he was arrested. I mean that there's something to be said for that. I mean you also have a restrictive free agent and Daniel Ross who missed the last part of the season as well an injury. But both those guys have been arrested, right, so both those guys are probably going to be facing some kind of yeah something from the league. You can't imagine Ross being a part of this anymore because they almost he was out the door and then he got hurt, and then he's here.

I don't think he's gonna be here. I'm surprised he's still around, honestly, because when he got arrested, I thought maybe they would, you know, get something there. That's a which I totally understand your point about Antoine, but we waited all year to hear something about Tyrone Crawford too and never did. That's true. It's hard trying to predict

league disciplinary stuff. You might go into next season for the first four games and have have multiple guys that could be facing Oh well, no, I mean, if nothing happened to Tyrone before, I assume it's not going to happen. Now. I'm just saying, well, you know what, great point. You have no fun trying to predict what the league does with any of that stuff. I can tell you it'll happen on a day when we're not in the office because it'll all come always happened like that. Yeah, all right,

UM tell you what. Let's get to to Sean Lee at linebacker unrestricted free agent. Why are you laughing? Just wait? You said it like I was like, who's to Shawn Lee? Like, I don't know, that's what That's how I heard it was Sean Lee. I was laughing because like two years ago, he's not a Shawn either. That's why I was laughing. The dominant storyline was that like the team just fell apart when he couldn't there, and now it's sort of like, oh, yeah,

let's let's get to Shaun Lee got about him to Sea. Yeah, you really needed him when Layton went out. He helped ye out last year. He was one of your better defensive players. Yeah, if he wants to keep playing football, come on back as and assuming he's comfortable with the same role, because I mean, Layton and Jalen are are in place to be your starters. Just know, Layton did have successful next surgery earlier. This week's supposedly successful next surgery. Again,

we don't know for sure. That's just the reports that it was a successful neck surgery he had. He's expected to be fine for the offseason program. So again, I mean, Sean's probably not going to be a Day one starter here. And if he's okay with that, he proved his value in spades this year. I'd love to have him back. If he wants to keep playing football. I think it's like he was okay last year with it. Yeah, nothing I've gotten. I have gotten no indication that he's like

mad about being the third linebacker on this team. If he wants to, I mean I don't It's hard to imagine him not being involved in football. So if I had to guess, like by March, he's going to be so anty to be doing football stuff again, I would guess he tries to play another year. But we'll see. Money will not be an issue. He would be happy to just sign whatever. So is his wife happy for him to sign whatever? I'm sure she enjoys. The funny

thing I thought yesterday, Luke Keikley retired yesterday. He's like significantly younger than Lee, and I know he had concussion issues, but like had significantly healthier career, Like I would have never guessed Luke Keikley would retire before Sean Lee. Oh, Luke did have his injury issues. He had. You know, he had concussion problems for sure, But I mean Sean has missed thirty five percent of the possible games he

could have played in or something like that. I always thought of always thought of Luke Keikley as what Sean Lee could have been without. He was that good. I love Sean Lee like I think it's great. But you have to look at both sides of this, and war was the one problem that was the biggest glaring issue for the Cowboys last year. Where did they just consistently struggle in specifically special team. Oh oh yeah, okay, special team.

Oh that thing does trickle down. If you have a guy that you're's your third linebacker, but he's not playing special teams, then that means these other guys have to be on the roster to play special teams, and then that that just kind of sects your whole roster a little bit. It's like having that older receiver that doesn't play special teams, but he's your fourth guy, you know,

it's like that he doesn't help. I get that. But with a position like linebacker, where you have two guys that honestly I don't know if I trust their health and they're three guys. Now, yeah, but yeah, I'm saying, you got a guy's got a remake leg after having more rific injury. Okay, clear view, um. But but the point of the matter is you got him, and then

you got a guy that just had neck surgery. And my thing is, like two guys like that, I think I gotta have My third linebacker has to be somebody that I can plug and play because I know that those two I just don't completely trust that they're gonna be there. I think he is funny. He's well worth what you lose on the on the roster for the insurance policy. And I think he proved that. I just think that's something that they all have to kind of factor in because it's funny. How now, Sean Lee is

the plug and play guy. You know, he's the one that you can rely on, right right, But but I'll say this, Giffer is still developing. True. Having him on the sideline, though, like having him on the settling is very valuable because he's a vocal guy. He can you know, it's like those basketball coaches that coach the floor and then there's something that coach the bench. Those guys are getting valuable instruction there, and I think Sean Lee does

that bring Bring Yeah, Luke Gifford's coming back. And then let's spend a seventh round draft pick on some badass from a school I've never heard of who has nine thousand career tackles and be perfect and about forty ken dicussions. Sure come home, jeez, man, I'm just saying, you've been in a lot of car wrecks. If you're doing that, doesn't matter if you're playing at Chadron State or Ohio state, they'll use your shoulder. Oh, got your head right? All right.

We appreciate you guys join us. We'll be back on next Wednesday. When we come back next Wedesday, we all gonna talk about we're gonna fish up this list. There are quite a few more defensive guys that will be unrestricted free agents, and we'll talk about all those guys still then for Nick Eton, Dave helm At, Amber Garcia, I'm Derek Eagletson. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.