Cowboys Break: Murray or Hopkins?

The Break. I am Derek Heilton. I'm joined by Nick Eatman here live in the studio, the SWBC Mortgat Studio. We also got Dave and Amber joining us from home. And because it is Wednesday, we welcome to the show. Bucky Brooks of NFL Network talk little bit of Cowboys

versus Cardinals with us today. We are going to focus in on Cowboys defense versus the Cardinals offense, and Bucky, as we do every Wednesday, I'm going to start by asking you what are the greatest shrinks and or the greatest strength and the greatest weakness of this Arizona offense. This Arizona offense is explosive, is dynamic. They can attack you a bunch of different ways. Their quarterback, who is a Texas high school legend, is as good as advertised.

Kyler Murray is everything that you look for at the position. He's efficient, he's explosive, he does a great job of really testing the defense with his arm and his legs, and he has really kind of come into his own in the second season. Even though the numbers will tell you that he has had some struggles with the six interceptions, he's completely almost seventy percent of his passes. He has eight touchdowns six interceptions that US spoke about, but he

has five touchdowns on the ground. And as he is beginning to really get comfortable in this offense, they added another weapon in DeAndre Hopkins, maybe the best wide receiver in football, and they are treating him as such. DeAndre Hopkins leads the league and receiving yards. He's the only play in the National Football League with over five hundred receiving yards and forty plus catches. They are using him beyond just being a chain mover like he was used

in Houston. He's taking it deep. He's doing more things on the route tree than we've seen him do. And Cliff Kingsbury really has this offense rolling because they got a couple of running gap backs in Kenyan Drake and Chase Emmons. The offensive line has been better than expected and so because of this, this offense can explode and we really haven't seen them tap into that explosive nature, but they can be a handful bucky. Last weekend, in the game against the Giants, we saw the Dallars defense

taking eady, beaty, eaty, tiny bit step forward. But when you're talking about Urias offense, is this a game where hopefully the defense is able to take another another eatbaty step forward or kind of go back to what we've been seeing. You know. It's it's interesting because the Cowboys

issues have been against the run in the past. Last week we saw where the Giants tried to run right at them successfully early in the game, and then the Cowboys were able to kind of get an under control, i would say, and put the game on Daniel Jones. The Cardinals typically don't operate operate like that like they will run it, but they're at their best when Kyla Murray is just kind of dealing like a Vegas casino dealer.

He's just kind of distributing the ball to all the playmakers that they have around him and it goes and so Dallas would be tested in a different way. They'll be tested from a coverage standpoint one, How does Mike Nolan elect to defend DeAndre Hopkins? Because it has to start with that. If you go one on one, DeAndre Hopkins is gonna have a one hundred and fifty plus yards and it's gonna be a big day for him. And so they have to determine how are they going

to take DeAndre Hopkins away. The other thing is if you take him away, are you willing to live with leaf is Gerald and Kristen Kirk getting whatever they get in the passing game and just knowing that they may move it, but you will eliminate some of the big plays. And then the counter to that is how committed to the running game with Cliff Kingsbury be considering what has been on tape the last couple of weeks in terms

of the leakage and the running game. Will he hand the ball off to Kenyan Drake and see how many carries he can muster. Kenny get a hundred yard game on the ground. So the Cowboys defense will be tested. It'd be tested in a different way, and I'm curious to see what kind of game playing Mike Noland comes up with, which Bucky, That's actually exactly what I wanted to talk about, because we're going to talk about Kyler and Hopkins and that's obviously terrifying. But Kenyan Drake is

he's not really off to an amazing start. I mean, I know he's a talented guy, but he's below four yards a carry. I saw this morning on Twitter that his expected yards per attempt is is one of the worst in the league right now, And I'm curious, is it something with him? Is it with their line? Is it because they're not very interested in establishing the run? What exactly is the problem there? And is it something that they could maybe get right against the Dallas defense

that has struggled against the run. Well, this offensive line isn't great. The best thing about Cala Murray is the way that he is able to master the deficiencies of the offensive line. Either the ball comes out so quick that the pass rush is a non factor, or he is able to elude and evade pressure and make plays happen, so the offensive line never looks like they're as bad as they actually are. It shows up in the running game because this is not a physical offensive line, unlike

the Cleveland Browns. Their DNA is not in trying to push people and match people off the line of scrimmage and to make it a physical contest in the trenches. And so from a run game perspective, is more deception and mister direction and trickery as opposed to, Hey, we're

gonna line up and play smashed my football. That said, because the Cowboys have struggled on the ground, I think early in the game you will at least see the Cardinals try to test him with the running game, and if the Cowboys stand up early, the running game will probably fall by the wayside. But if they have any issues, you will see it persistent in the steady died of the Rum with Kenyan Drake Buckets. Is Kyler good enough where you need to have a spy on him? And

if so, who's the spy in this case? Who? Do the Cowboys have a linebacker or safety that could be with him? Man? I don't know if man, he is so quick and explosive, I don't know if you really can spy him. You know, it's unique because it reminds me a lot of how Russell Wilson runs around in place. He only uses it when he absolutely needs it, But when he does need it, man, he has another year

to go get it. And I think the Russell Wilson comparison is at because I think it gives you an idea of the challenges that the Cowboys could face in dealing with Colin Murray. Because Colin Murray typically saves his runs for money downs third down when they need it, down in the red zone when they have to have it. He is different than a Lamar Jackson type who is running because that's kind of like the driving force of

their game. Kyla uses it when he has it. He'll pull the club out the bag when he needs it. But he is so good at getting down and so good at evading and eluding people. Man, you could put Thomas on him, you could put Smith, like I just don't know who can run with him and stick with him in that sense. I think the best way to kind of come after him is you gotta make him stay in the pocket and as they say in football Church, you gotta make him throw from the whale, meaning he's

a shorter, undersized quarterback. You need to make him throw from the pocket and see if he can find those lanes against the trees inside, so that means you're outside edge. Rushes can rush to the depth of his drop, but they don't want to rush past him and give him escape lanes. It is really a challenge of your discipline in your detail as a pass rush, a collective effort to make sure that you keep him contained and make him throw from the pocket, don't let him leak out

and run and make plays away from the pocket. Let's stick with the topic of Kyler Murray and I was looking at some of the games they've played this year. Detroit has actually done the best job of of slowing Murray down, particularly from when it comes to him running. They were able to hold him to twenty nine rush yards on five attempts. Detroit goes on to win that

game twenty six twenty three. What did they do in that game that allowed them to be successful in that way, because it does seem like in the games where the Arizona Cardinals have lost, they have controlled Tyler when it comes to him running well, you know, like it's funny because the Detroit lines are typically a heavy man demand team they didn't play as much man demand against him

that week. When you play a lot of man demand, your defensive backs and your linebackers have their back to the quarterback and so if he spots the lane, he can take and then he can go for big plays. Whereas in zone you have guys who are eyeball in the quarterback. When he does break, they're able to close on them quickly. The thing about it, I think it

was a different plan than the Cardinals anticipated. They had dialed up all their man beaters and they're throwing man beaters against zone coverage, and I think it took Cliff Kingsbury a while to adjust. I think you come back the next week the Jets try to do a little more zone, and they absolutely obliterated the zone. So I think you have to be able to pick your poison

or how you're gonna come after him. I do believe with this and Mike Nolan and talking to people around Mike Nolan, he is not one who really loves being an aggressive, high pressure play caller. But I think you have to. You have to mix in some of that stuff, not only because it disrupts the rhythm of Kyler, but because the pass rush has been so inconsistent, you're trying to create one on one matchups by adding another blitzer.

What you do is now get one on ones for the Marcus Lawrence, you get him from Alden Smith, and now you're hoping those guys can win. We saw after Dak Prescott went out. I think Mike Nolan wrapped up the pressure package a little more because you no longer have the luxury of the offense scoring points and now the onus is really on the defense to get stops. I think he has to have that same urgency in this game to be able to contain this offense. But yeah, I want to go back to the offensive line and

the defensive line matchup there. With the Cowboys losing defensive tackle Tristan Hill, is are you expecting there to be a big drop off between the guys who they have right now and they can plug in. Basically, what I'm trying to ask, is this a game where Tristan Hill's absence is going to be really reflected on the field, or is this a game where the Cowboys can just figure it out based on the fact that they're facing

an offensive line that is not as great. Well, I mean, I think they have to figure it out regards to the team to their face. And then they're lucky because they don't have a dominant offensive line in front of them, meaning they don't have maulers and masters at the point of attack. They really want to move bodies off the ball. This is an interesting unit from the Cowboys because Kristen Hill, like say what you want to say about like the dirty playing, the penalties and some of the other stuff.

He was getting a great effort and he was playing hard. His play certainly surpasses what the Cowboys have been getting from Don Terry Pope. And so now you're digging deep and you need to figure out Neville Gallimore. Who else can come in and give contributions and try and make an impact on the inside. But really, I think the guy who has to have to spotlight on him is you expected more from Don Terry Pope on the inside,

particularly as a run stuffer. He has to take his game up a notch because they're going to need all hands on deck to be able to get this thing done with this defense. And my hater, if I don't like, I struggle to see a way that the Cowboys can really limit DeAndre Hopkins, Like, it's easy to say double them, but with the miscommunication problems we've seen between the corners and the safeties and this defense, I mean, are you really are you really accomplishing that much even if you

do double them? And I'm looking at the stats and I see Carolina held them to seven catches for forty one yards. But I just I basically don't think that the Cowboys can pull that off. Am I wrong? I mean they can pull it off like so without going to deepen the weeds. In terms of the scheme, Mike Nolan wants to play a quarters defense. Many you split the field quarter quarter quarter with the corners the safeties,

and they kind of split it that way. There's some matchup man to man principles, and that the cousin of quarters is what they call quarter quarter a half, meaning on the field side the way side of the field, they're playing quarters into the boundary. They're playing almost like they're playing cover two. So in that defense, what you can do is you can play man to man on DeAndre Hopkins with a safety overtop and play zone on

the other side. Now, I would like to think that Mike Nolan has that in his bag, because typically when you put in quarters, you put in cover two, and then that gives you the ability to play cover six or Cover eight, however you want to call it. So I would think that that is in their bag. It's just a matter of does he trust his young guys to be able to play a combination defense to take

away DeAndre Hopkins the thing that you worry about. Typically from a defensive standpoint, you don't want the stars to beat you. You don't want DeAndre Hopkins to single handedly have a two hundred yard day to beat you. So if you can eliminate him or just neutralize him and make them go somewhere else, you can live with a loss if someone else beats you. But it is insanity if you're going to allow DeAndre Hopkins to go one on one with Trayvon Diggs and Anthony Brown and expect

those guys to hold up without help. I just I think that's a flaw strategy if that's the one that Mike Nolan employs. But you rather have and the best receiver in the league with an Hall of Famer who doesn't have it anymore. In a dynamic, I guess slot guy, punt returner or three an receivers on the other side, I mean, what would you rather have Cardinals or Cowboys receiving? Well, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take. I'm gonna take the

three a's. But the problem is, like it doesn't come with the automatic quarterback in the package, like with the Tory bout, Like you don't get the quarterback with it. And so if you told me that I was gonna an a level quarterback with the three as, I would take it. The only thing that I would say in comparing the group, DeAndre Hopkins highs exceed what the Cowboys

A's have shown to this point. Almari Cooper has had some moments, but DeAndre Hopkins for the last three or four years has been in the conversation for being number one in the league at that position. And I am not necessarily the biggest DeAndre Hopkins fans because when I watched him at Houston, I thought he was more of

a possession receiver. He didn't really create separation. But after a while, when you see tape after tape for tape where he is coming down with these acrobatic catches and these fifty fifty balls, you have to give him his due he typically is not a great run after catch guy, but he does have some dominant stuff. But I think this is a very compelling matchup when it comes to

what kind of wide receiver corp would you want? Do you want three guys that can take turns dominating or do you want a guy that you know it's kind of like a Lebron James where I know he's going to get me a triple double and I know I can count on that each and every week. Well, you say that he's not a great run after catch guy, I think Dave and I both remember him. He's been in three of the Cowboys there and on his way

to win. Yeah, but as soon as go ahead day the overtime game, because it was some of the best jack I can remember. So yeah, And when I said yeah, when I say that about his jack yards, he's really kind of a hercu jerky runner playmaker with the ball in his hands. Like unlike like when Daz Bryant was in Dallas, Das was like a physical specimen that just kind of ran through arm tackles or whatever. DeAndre Hopkins isn't Dad, so I guess he's kind of sneaky with

the rock in his hands. Maybe that's why I don't give him that added love or whatever. He's definitely one of the top two or three receivers in the game. Derek, you and I kind of looked at each other. We probably have the same question here about when you said that he doesn't have the A level quarterback anymore than the Cowboys don't. What is the grade on their quarterback? Exactly where I was going, give me, give me this you're talking about going from yeah, talking about the red rifle, Yeah,

talking about which one the red right? Talking about Andy Dalton Dalton? Okay, So so here here's the thing. Here's the thing with here's the thing with Andy Dalton. If Andy Dalton is able to play on script and on rhythm, he can play at a B plus A minus love, meaning that if he is a to play catch rock and throw football where he is not under the rest and he is able to just like get the ball out,

he's terrific. If he is under pressure or if he is forced to improvise, that's when his game falls off. In Cincinnati, when they had that fortress of an offensive line and they were playing at their best, Ned Whitworth and Andrey Smith and those guys. Andy Dalton was a three time pro bowler. As they began to lose some of that upfront, his game decline. But make no mistake, Andy Dalton could back last year, should have been the starter for Cincinnati the entire time, and he certainly can

start and play well. The thing will be and I'm hoping that Kellen Moore has now thought about his comments. He was like, Oh, I don't think we need to tweaker offense. We can just play as is and talking to people. And I got this directly from Hugh Jackson. Hugh Jackson had told me when Andy Dalton was drafted out of TCU the reason they took Giovanni Bernard over Eddie Lacy at running back is because Andy Dalton is

a shotgun spread quarterback. If you ask Andy Dalton to go up under center to turn his back to the defense, he doesn't do that as well because he has always played in shotgun and always done those things. It's not a coincidence on Sunday when he had the month bot snapped. He can do it, but he's not at his best

doing that. So how much with the Cowboys living the shotgun because that is what Andy Dalton has done, and can they get the running game with Zeke out of the shotgun as opposed to in the eye running traditional downhill sets. I think that is the thing to look for if they go seventy shotgun. Andy Dalton should be at his best, but now it's on that offensive line to make sure they can protect him enough where you can get the ball out within his first and second read.

You don't want him running around man. Really, really great information, real quick before we let you guy, yet, have one other question for you. We talked a lot about, or you talked a lot about Kyler Murray and DeAndre Hopkins. Based on what you've seen from this Dallas defense through five games, who do you suspect will be a bigger problem for them? Kyler Murray, particularly Klin Murray running or DeAndre Hopkins down the field. Cayler Murray is the bigger problem.

Kyler Murray is the bigger problem because you can call the perfect defense where everybody's covered up, and then he can take off and do those things. And this will be when we have an opportunity to see if the effort changes, because Kyler Murray is going to force the Cowboys to play longer downs, So will Order Smith and Marcus Lawrence and Everson Griffin, will they chase and give

a seven eight second effort if he's running around? And can they do it when the Cardinals elect to go up tempo and they keep that front four on the field for five, six, seven plays in a row. Because based on the way you've seen the effort, I would think Kingsbury will turn up the tempo a little bit to see if he can tire them out and see will they continue to pursue and push or where they

kind of gas out and become fatigued. So this will really be um an opportunity to see how far this defense has grown from the Cleveland game in terms of their effort and energy expenditure. All right, Bucky Man, we'll appreciate you joining us. Really great information. We'll see you again tomorrow. We're gonna talk a little bit more about this Arizona team, but we'll talk about the Arizona defense versus the Cowboys offense. We're gonna take our first break.

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in the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star. We finished our segment with Bucky Brooks now, I've got some questions for you guys talking about the Cowboys defense and how it matches up with this Arizona offense. Right now, Arizona is ranked sixth in the NFL and rushing offense putting up seven hundred and five yards per game. I mean, I'm seven hundred and five yards total, one hundred and

forty one yards per game on the ground. Do you think Dallas has solved their issues stopping the run after holding the Giants only eighty nine yards rushing or was that just a function of playing the Giants? Nick, let's start with you. Well, I just I think those stats are skewed. I mean, what the Giants were doing and what teams typically do to run the ball with the Browns certainly did, is not what's getting seven hundred yards rushing for at the Cardinals. I think I bet you

half of those rushing yards or designed passes. Maybe not that many, but but I do know that a lot of those yards are Kyler Murray he's up there and the leaders of rushes he is right now. Kenyan Drake leads them with three hundred and fourteen. He has two hundred and ninety six, so not very far behind and he's done it one half the almost half the attempts,

So I don't know. I mean, you could say, yeah, they could be the best run defense in the league, but he's going to present a different challenge, so it's hard to kind of say that they've figured it out. I think that the Cardinals won't hurt him that bad running between the tackles, but he will be the one that hurts him amber well. To be honest, I have zero trust in the Dallas Cowboys running defense. I don't

trust them at all. The game against the Giants. I mean, it's hard to kind of get excited about anything about that game just because you were playing against the Giants and the Cardinals are not that you know. I think they're a better team than the Giants for sure, but it's not like they've been having a great season either. So I hope that is not a game where the running game is going to absolutely kill the defense. But I just right now, I don't trust the Cowboys defense

to stop the run. Dave. I meant to bring this up to Bucky. I mentioned, like Kenyan Drake, he's not playing all that well for being like their number one back and the guy that they traded for from Miami. But I do wonder if they turned towards Chase Edmonds a little bit more in this game, because he seems to be having much more production when he is getting the touches. He hasn't gotten a whole lot of them to this point in the season. Maybe this is a week where they try that out. But overall, I do

agree with Nick. I'm just I'm terrified of Kyler Murray, and I think I said I said the week of the Seattle game that you gotta put pressure on Russ because you can't let him sit back there because if you do, he'll pick you apart and he can also break out. I like what Bucky said a lot. I mean no disrespect to Kyler Murray. I'll take my chances that he can't hang in there and make plays from

the pocket at this stage in his career. Like one day he will probably be able to do that, but he's still just a second year player early in his back in season. I would do everything in my power to keep him in the pocket, even if it means not pressuring him, because I think you set yourself up to lose this game if you give him sixty seventy

eight easy rushing yards. The one thing I'm a little bit concerned about with that, though, is it's kind of similar to what you see when you see guys playing when they play that two gap scheme, when you're kind of waiting and kind of seeing where he's gonna go. I think for a guy like him that's that dynamic and that quick and that elusive, if you're waiting, he's gone, like you, if you're not coming at him and forcing the issue, then I think he's gone. I think he'll

still find his way. Even if you can manage to just kind of keep him kind of in front of him and you're just kind of playing around there, just making sure he doesn't get away. I think that actually could work against you with a guy that's as elusive as he is. Yeah, And the scary part about that is, I mean Lockett and Metcalf, those guys are those are good receivers, but they're not as good as the cardinal guys.

And so when when you sit back like that and kind of let him find a receiver, I mean it Hopkins doesn't need a lot of time to get opened. And Fitzgerald and Christian Kirk, I mean I don't know that that's scary because it's like, what do you do. You just go out and and let him refront all over you, or you just let him sit back there and and one of those guys will get open. I mean, it's it's gonna be a cat and mouse game for sure, let's go to the But it is a true it's

I mean, it's a pick your poison. I'm not saying there's one option that sounds that that's definitely gonna work. But between his size and his inexperience making reads at the NFL level, I'd rather ask him to do that than risk, you know, going after him missing out and now half the field is open for him to run. I just I think that's a recipe for disaster. And it's you're totally right. If you hang back there and don't try too hard to pressure him, somebody will be open.

But maybe you can clog those throwing lanes or Yeah, I agree with you, Dave. I agree with you that it's a pick your poison because I don't think there's a great answer here either way. But but you know, maybe, and maybe that's the answer, is that they'll have to do a lot of different things. They'll do that a little bit, and other times that they'll they'll try to

pressure him a little bit, blitz a little bit. As Bucky was saying, I think you got to try to keep him off guard more than anything else and not let him know or get comfortable with what's going to be coming his way. But speaking about these receivers, the vast majority of they're receiving yards. Obviously going to Hopkins, he asked five hund twenty eight receiving yards. The next closest guys Christian Kirk at one hundred and fifty four, and let's not forget they've got the great one Larry

Fitzgerald over there as well. That all being said, do you think the Cowboys are capable? And then this question was asked to Bucky. I want you guys to answer it. Are they capable of stopping a guy like DeAndre Hoppins, who I believe is the best wide receiver in the NFL. And I don't think it's really even close when you look at his production over these years of his career. Even with bad quarterbacks, most receivers don't do that. He has done that consistently. Let's start first of you Dave. No,

that's that's why I asked that question. No, I don't think they're capable of it. They haven't proven that they're capable of it. Um, you know that's Bucky. Bucky mentioned quarters. I believe it was quarters that they were running on the first Tyler Lockett play and the safety in the cornerback just sort of watched him run past them. And

now you're you know Bucky was. I was like, my head was spinning when he was talking about playing combo coverages, and I'm like, what if we've seen that makes us think that they can run that successfully? I don't like. That's kind of my point is you shade a safety over to DeAndre Hopkins' side of the field, Like, do you really feel like you accomplished all that much based on what we've seen? I don't, Dave. That was so like before Stephen Parker got in the lineup. I mean like, you're, oh, yeah,

you're right, You're right. Sorry, what do you think? I will say, Oh, no, good, Dave. I will say I slightly disagree with the point Nick made a minute ago, which is that I think I'll take the Seahawks receiver corps as a whole over Arizona's. Honestly, I think you know, Kirk, Kirk and Fitzgerald are good players, but overall, I think that you know, Metcalf, Lockett and even David Moore bring a little bit more firepower at this stage of their careers.

But DeAndre Hopkins, I agree. I think he's the best receiver in the NFL, and I just don't know that the Cowboys can can keep pace with that. And even if they do, you're dedicating so many resources to it that somebody else is going to take button. But I'll challenge you back on that. You would take probably any three receivers if you've got Russell Wilson as the quarterback, right, I mean, as long as you've got a pretty good receiver there, I think. And that's the thing I think

Russell is making. I don't think Metcalf and Locket, they weren't drafted super high. I don't think that they would have the success there have if it wasn't for a guy like Russell Wilson. That is what Why are you looking at me like that? I kind of disagree with that. I think I think you think those two guys would be okay. If Daniel Jones Oh, but let's put it in context. If they were in Dallas, I think they would be as good as the receivers that are in Dallas.

So again, I think Metcalf, I think Metcalf is gonna be I think he already is very very good. Now. I already think he's very very good. And I think there's gonna be a point when he's among the very best squide receivers in the NFL. But I think he's already very close to that. And it helps, You're right, it helps that he's with Russell Wilson. But I think you put him with a lot of other quarterbacks around this league, he'd be doing the exact same thing. Now,

you can't just put him with anybody. Yeah, but you put him with good quarterbacks, I think you'd be doing the same thing. That's why Hopkins to me, is the best exactly. And if not, it's Michael Thomas. Both of them are right there because they both have proven that doesn't matter who the quarterback is, they're still gonna fall out. What are you talking about, Michael Thomas when when Bridgewater came in the game, he did, But we see what

Bridgewater doing Carolina. He's not a He's not just chop beef. I mean, he's a good quarterback brisket. Ever, what do you think about these receivers? Can the Cowboys stop him? Well, no simple answer, No. I think the Cowboys have faced players wide receivers are I believe, are much less talented than Hopkins. I do believe Hopkins is the best wide receiver in the entire league. And the first time I watched him play, I was just like, what a receiver

can play like this? What is this? So it's gonna be tough, especially when when you talk about a defense that has been so on cart where the secondary players just don't they just don't flow, you know, their game just doesn't flow. They seem confused at times. So it's gonna be really really hard to find someone that can really match up to him. And I just don't see any player that has shown the skills at least this year to where it would be a good matchup against Hopkins.

And I do think that Tristan Hill, I mean I think that's that You're gonna notice that pretty bad. In the defensive line, the Cowboys or have been struggling, especially at the tackle position this whole year, and now you get to lose a guy like Tristan Hill, who who was at least trying and doing his best, and I do think there's gonna be a drop off there, and that's obviously gonna affect what happens with the secondary and how the white receivers are going to perform in this game.

So it's gonna be tough. Oh my, how times have changed. We go back to last year what we were all were saying about Tristan Hill, and now we're at a point where we're like, hey, you can kind of miss Triston Hill. Let's see about that. Because I do think Neville Gallimore, I mean, he's he's a he's a young guy, but I mean he showed a little bit at the

end of that game. I don't know. I think Tristan Hill is just so raw, like he's he reminds me a little bit of Randy Gregory in the sense of like when he's good, like you notice him, but he also is just not there with all the techniques and all the things that you want him to be, and so that sometimes he can get pushed around because he's just a technique isn't there, And it's it's unfortunate that that.

I mean a couple of reasons. It's unfortunate that he's out for the year because you know, he's right there in the middle, he's starting. He also he's getting better as a player. It's also unfortunate that, I mean, nobody was talking about Tristan Hill's injury getting carted off the field, you know. And one more thing, Dave made a great point yesterday. Look at all the people that sprinted over

there to say hi, you know dad support day. I mean, you can tell that that doesn't always happen because he was carted off the field, and I don't I think Don Tarry Poe went over there, but I don't, you know what I mean, nobody was running off the bench, and that she also has a function of the quarterback. But it's the face of the franchise. That's what I'm saying. Yeah,

all right, we're gonna take our final break. When we come back, I want to talk about two players that are seemingly based upon last week, going in opposite directions. You got Jalen Smithy, you got Don Terry Poe. We'll talk about both them we come back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio since eighteen sixty five. Stetson hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your Texas and Team pride two You

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airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and creep Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor Babbag cream Soda? Is he a Newcombonut's music to My Ears? Okay? Doctor Times, Music to my ears and mouth? New Doctor Pepper and cream sodas bad? Back to the break? Okay, So my last read was telling you how you could go to AT and T Stadium to tour. This one is how AT and T Stadium can come to your home. Are you craving the stadium's famous cheese? Take Nacho's Cowboy rita when

you're watching the Cowboys at home? You can bring your favorite stadium food to you place your online order for pickup or local delivery every week this season. Check out the menu at at and T stadium dot com Slash at home. Can be kind of hungry, how about that? Yeah, I mean I didn't realize at and T Stadium you can like you can like Uber eats or whatever. I mean, the stadium get it delivered. Yeah, that's amazing. Maybe we

should do that next the next road game, Dave. Now, since we're all here, Nick's not with us, but we're all here. We should probably have some food delivered over here from the stadium. That would be I'm out. When you order, do you use the Arlington location or do you use the one close to your house? I don't know. He probably got some connections where we could get some food delivered to the state. I know some people. I can make a phone call too. We might be able

to get some food from the stadium. I'm just saying Cowboys might be good stuff. If you've never tasted it, trust me, good stuff. I just want some of the mac and cheese. Yeah, I just want some of the mac and cheese from the stadium. All right, let's jump again. I did want to talk about two particular players on the Cowboys defense that seemed to be going in opposite directions. Jalen Smith. I mean, we all have talked about it over these last few weeks. We didn't think he was

playing very well. Last week, I thought he played his best game in the season. It may have been among one of the best games you've had in his career here in Dallas. He had fourteen tackles, he had half a sack, he had three tackles for a loss, and he had two quarterback hits. Um, my question for you guys is what did you think of the performance overall

and what do you think was different? If you think he was really much better this week and he'd been in past weeks, what do you think was it a difference. Let's start first with you, Dave. I think I said this yesterday. I mean, he did play great, he had a great game, but I got to see it against a non New York Giants team. And I'm not saying it's all because the Giants suck, but I've just I've seen him get exploited by three or four good teams, and I saw him play really well against one bad team.

So that's kind of where my head's at, and there's no time like the present because somebody's going to have to do something about this very mobile quarterback and a lot of times that falls on linebackers, So this is gonna be again another big challenge for him to step up. Amber what do you think. I agree with everything that they've said, and I said it too, like it's hard for me to get excited about anything that happened in

the game against the Giants. I mean, good that we got to see little sparks here and there, and I hope that he's able to carry that into this week and moving forward. But when you talk about the defense overall and trying to stop the running back and all that, I still think that Jaylen is still the best guy to take that job and be in charge, because who else do you really have on defense that can actually

be effective. I was pretty excited to finally be able to get to get to see some of Francis Bernard, but I feel like I completely forgot about him too. I don't remember I can't remember seeing any play where he's stuck out to me, So it's just hard because you don't really have anyone else on that area. That can be better than Jaylen. Right now, real quick, Nick, before you answer that question, can you tell us what

are you expecting from Layton band? Because I know we've talked a lot about Jayalen, but is this the week that maybe we see Layton return to the lineup And if he does, how much does that affect? How much does that help this team and also helped Jaylen? Well, you know they haven't practiced yet. Um, it's Wednesday. They tomorrow it will be like their normal Wednesday because they have the extra day, So we're gonna find out a

little bit more of where he is tomorrow. Um. But but I just think that even so, even if he plays, I can't imagine him just going out there and playing every every snap. You know, I was looking at the total snaps on defense and there's uh three players that have played every snap and Jayalen Smith is one of them, Treyvon Diggs is another. I'm missing a third one. I can't remember who it is. One of the defensive end. It's not Well might is amazing if that is the case.

But but but the point about Layton, I think he'll come back, Um, if he does play this week, and I think he can. I don't think he'll play as much. I think they'll rotate a little bit. You're not just gonna see Joe Thomas on the bench. Think they'll rotate as Dave likes to say, three for two spots. That was a different scheme, but I still think it will probably be similar. So let's flip to the other side of the coin. Don Terry Poe. This last game, he

played thirty one to sixty eight defensive snaps. That's forty six percent of the defensive snaps. He had zero stats for the day, no tackles, no tackles for a loss, no quarterback hits, none of that. Zero stats. It's probable a liability for this team at this point. Nick, Let's start with you. Yeah, I don't know about liability. He's not playing well, but I mean it's not to me a liability is you know, then the backup comes in and he would be better. I don't think they have

a guy that that's better. But yes, the defensive tackles, that is where they are. And it's not just him, but they're getting pushed around. They're getting pushed, but you at least expect him to get pushed around. He is a veteran guy, a big body guy. The last thing I expected when they signed him was that we'd be

in week five talking about the fact that he's getting pushed. Yeah, but again, and I know this is like a Mickey Spagnola favorite right here, but you do have to ask, you know, Atlanta, I guess, Carolina, you know, Kansas City. I mean, they did let the guy go, you know, and so maybe we should have thought about that a little bit more. Of course, you know, somebody let Lebron James go three times. But I'm just saying, so that happens.

But I don't know. I just think you're right, he's that whole defensive line's not playing well and you expected more from him. Amber. Well, what sucks is that every week I expect guys like him to be able to get better and it's just not happening. I mean, we're about to see six and still you don't see the kind of progress that you want to see it, and it's very disappointing. I don't I don't really know what

exactly the issue is. I mean, the defense as a whole has been having plenty of issues and questions that have not being answered yet. So it's stuff. And then when you talk about, okay, who who are some guys that are going to replace him? I mean, do you move on to having someone step up that has less experience because at this time it doesn't seem like his

experience is being utilized anyways. So it's it's a tough one now that you lost Tristan Hill and to think that maybe replacing him, that that's another element that maybe you know, it's gonna take the younger guys to be able to step up. It's gonna take a little bit of time. It's not gonna be oh, let's plug this guy in and that's gonna fix the issue. So that's a that's a hard one there. Dave, is he is Dontry Poe a liability for this team at this point? Yes he is, And actually, to be fair to us,

we definitely talked about it on this very podcast. Within a couple of weeks or maybe a month of Poe and Gerald McCoy signing, it got brought up that the Panthers started both of those guys last year and their run defense sucked, and it wasn't a case of them not having any linebackers. They had Keekley last year. They have Shack Thompson, So it definitely raised your eyebrows all the way back in the spring that, Hm, why wasn't

the Panthers run defense any good? And you know, it doesn't really bother me that Don Taripo doesn't have stats. That's not his job. But his job is to not get blown off the ball and eat up blocks and he's not really doing that either. It seems like he gets pushed back a lot. I know that he weighs like three hundred and thirty pounds, but like he just he does not have the quickness of an NFL athlete

when it comes to pursuit. You can see it. Yeah, it's it's a liability, and I think it's it's probably a fairly big part of why they have struggled at the run. Yeah, I mean I don't love the options behind him. I would have loved to given a look to Snax Harrison before he was gainfully employed somewhere else. Squad that doesn't seem like it's in the car. I mean, if they want to, if they want to do it, I'd be all in favor. But I don't get the

impression that they think that's a priority right now. Um, I think it probably should be. I think, you know, yes today, I mean yes, I do. I do think it's a problem. And uh, you know, you can talk all you want about the three technique spot. Uh, you know, give Neville Galla Morrison the more snaps. Maybe Tyrone Crawford can come on, but they don't have that guy that's eating up space on the line of scrimmage right now, and it was supposed to be Pope. You know you

are going to see. I mean, I think Crawford plays defensive tackle now because the Cowboys after this game are adding another rusher and Randy Gregory, you know, he's a he'll be eligible to play after this game, and so that's another guy that because you're starting to see a lot of these defensive ends are sliding inside on third long. You're seeing it from saw. We also saw Austin Griffin, I think Smith, maybe a couple of all the Smiths,

so you'll see that even more so. Definitely, I think Crawford plays the defensive tackle position once again, moving his you know position around. Yeah, I'm interested to see if over the next couple of weeks, if this continues with Poe, if the Cowboys do get to a point where they're

just like, give me another body again. I'm not saying snacks would be better, but give it a try or and I'm saying not saying necessarily has to be him, But at some point, I wonder if the Cowboys get to a point where they just start looking for other bodies, because I do think he is a big problem for them right now, that would be interesting. What would be interesting, Dave knows where I'm going with this, Yeah, but it would be Oh, I know the minute you said it.

I mean it would be interesting because what happens if the Cowboys cut down Tari Poe. I'm just saying from a national standpoint, i just wonder if the Cowboys do they does Jerry get face backlash on that? I mean, it would be it would be because he's not playing a good job. He's not playing good in the middle. But I'm saying, you know what the narrative would be as well, And to be honest with you, I'm not

even suggesting that they would cut him. What I'm suggesting is they have to get more bodies in here because right now, his big body isn't doing what it's supposed to do. So my point is and and by the way, I don't think you necessarily want to just let him go because you might still need him. Like that's the thing about COVID right now, you want to keep people around, not necessarily looking like you're not like the Jets, where you're just like, let's get rid of an abled bodied

NFL veteran. UM. But I do think at some point they may have to look at some other options and say, hey, maybe Poe is better if he does less snaps. You know, right now he's doing almost fifty percent of snaps this last game. Maybe he's better at twenty five percent. Give me another body, and especially with Tristan Hill, now, maybe that's what they need to do. They might have. Um. We might have said this earlier in the week, but Justin Hamilton is on the practice squad. He's he's been

in the NFL for three or four years. I'm not saying he's a pro bowler, but he's got some experience. I would give him. Put him. Let's see what happen, camp, Let's see what happens. All. We appreciate you guys joining us. We're back tomorrow. We're gonna jump into Cowboys versus Cardinals. Will hit the Cowboys offense versus the Cardinals defense tomorrow. Until then, for Nick Even, Dave helm and Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eagleton. This has been the Break live

on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.