Cowboys Break: Jaylon’s Future

The Break, presented by Geico. We are alive from the s WBC Mortgage studios. At the start, we've got some time here to talk to you guys about Cowboys football.

We're gonna talk a little bit about a couple hires the Cowboys have made here over the last week, some rumored hires that might be happening here soon we can go around the NFL and our final segment and hopefully give some picks or definitely give some picks for the upcoming games this weekend in the Divisional round of NFL playoffs, and maybe, just maybe we will get to some questions from you guys. Amber has some ready in case we

get there. In the final segment, how's everybody doing today? Good? Derek, great, Derek, awesome, everybody's good. Let's jump in. Let's talk about what nothing? Okay, let's talk about Mike Nolan. Uh. This last week we find out Mike Nolan has been relieved of his duties. Jim tom Sula, the defensive line coach, also relieved of his duties, and then the Cowboys going to make a

hire or they hire dan Quinn. M He was the leader, the defensive coordinator of the top defense in the league in twenty thirteen and in twenty and fourteen with the Seattle Seahawks. He won Super Bowl while he was there in Seattle, and then he went on to be the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons, took that team to the Super Bowl. That was the infamous melt down of the twenty eight to three league that they gave up.

What were your initial reactions to the hiring of Dan Quinn and the firing of Mike Noel Nichols start, We got you gotta make a change. Obviously we hinted at it. We don't like seeing guys, you know, lose jobs or whatever. But you can't be okay, and there's a lot of reasons for it. It wasn't all his fault. I'm sure he's still a good football coach, but you gotta make a change, and so they did, and they got a

guy that that has is a proven defensive coordinator. Um, it's not that Nolan wasn't, but you know, he's had more success and I think that you know, it'll it'll be, It'll be a good change. My own thought is is I just hope that he'll have a chance to get on the field and actually get to coach, because that is that's what hurt Mike Nolan, that's what hurt Jim thom Sewel had heard all those guys, and I hopefully he'll get a chance to do that with his staff.

You know, I know it's part of my job and all that to comment on things like this, but at the same time, I'm just in a weird space right now where I haven't really been able to really hit the reset the reset button and have like a clear mindset and a clean slate. Right now, I'm just like, okay, because of what happened last year, and we talked so much about all of this new coaching staff having so much experience and all that and then Quinn. He has

a great resume. I mean, you look at the things he's done and it's great, and you yeah, there is excitement that goes along with that. But at the same time, right now, I'm just in that kind of mentaliated that man I've been there, a guy in that excitement, but now I just need to see it happening. I need to see it happening on the field. I needed, you know, not just getting excited about the coach itself and then

the experience they bring all that. I just I'm lacking the whole translation onto the players and the whole translation onto the field because I feel it just hasn't happened yet with the boys. So yes, good hire, great background, great resume, but it's gonna take some time for me myself to be convinced until I actually see it happening on the field. Dave nothing wrong with that, which actually

a g I think. I think your reservations are exactly why Dan Quinn is the defensive coordinator here, because Jerry Jones will paint you a roadmap. If you're willing to dig through Jerry speak, He'll he'll tell you what he wants. And he spent the last month on the radio, you know, when he would do media interviews talking about you know, they underestimated how hard it would be to change schemes during a pandemic. They underestimated, you know, the lack of

practice time, YadA, YadA, YadA. And I can picture with perfect clarity these behind closed doors meetings where Jerry Jones was like, we're not doing this again. I don't want to go through this type of transition. I don't want to hear the excuses when it doesn't work. So what did they do. They went and got a guy who runs a scheme that they've been running for the last three years. I mean, this is Chris Richard's scheme. Is that it's the Seattle scheme that got so famous in

the first half of this decade. I mean, obviously it's not going to be exactly the same dan Quinn's a different coach, but this is a system that every guy that's been here for more than a couple of years should know how to run. Whether that's the linebackers, whether that's the pass rushers, like, everybody here should have a basic level of familiarity with what they're being asked to do.

And I don't think that's a coincidence because obviously, you know, we all have the highest hope for twenty twenty one and what might be to come, but nobody knows what the offseason is going to look like, nobody knows how much time they're going to be able to be together, and so with all of that working against them, I think they wanted a guy who could realistically install the defense during a pandemic basically, and that's I mean, on top of being an accomplished coach. I think dan Quinn

gives them that. Yeah, I think day that's a great point because in his previous the one thing he's always been saying to do with his defense is is focus on making the same the scheme simpler, allowing players to play fast, knowing what we know about this team and the challenges of COVID that may not be complete by

the time they get to the offseason training. How much of a difference does do you think that makes for this defense having that kind of defensive coordinator, nick Um, You know, I think this year, you know that here's one of the things that I think, you know, Jerry beats himself up about too much about about trying to make changes during a pandemic. I mean, I just it wasn't It wasn't a pandemic. But I mean, we thought

we were going to be back in April. We thought we'd be back in May, and then May, we thought maybe July, and then July it would be done. And so you have to move forward and you and I think that nobody realized that was going to be like this all the way into January and who knows how long. So now now you know, now you know what you can do, and now you can go back to what

these players can do. And I think I think that McCarthy has a better idea of what these guys and I'm talking about the core players that are still here, d Law, you know, Randy Gregory, Sean Lee if he still if he comes back, of course, Jalen Smith, Light and Vanderish, those kind of guys what they can do. And I think that now you look at it and say, what do these guys do best, and let's get a scheme that fits him. Before it was just like let's just run a multiple scheme and all that, but that

didn't work. These players didn't adapt well to that. Camber well, you know, I mean like we've said, we have to wait and see what happens this year with COVID and the offseason and all of that. But I just I have my fingers crossed, and I just hope this is not another year where now we're like, Okay, the coaching change was good, but now the talent still sucks and the players we need better talent. So I just, oh my, please,

let's not have that conversation. I hope they make the right moves, they get the kind of guys in here. But then there's the whole other aspect of like, Okay, have these new guys had enough time to practice with the vettering guys and like just building the team, the defensive team together, piecing it all together. So that's another aspect that you also have to look at bettering guys, whether that's free agency, through free agency, hiring, or through

the draft. Okay, how are they gonna come in here and fit together? And how's that gonna look once you start putting all this pieces together. So again, I'm just hoping this is not a year where Okay, now it's not a coaching issue. Now it's okay, we need another year to address the talent and have it work together. Dave and Quinn was going to be the higher I've said this a few times, and I want to make sure I'm saying it the right way because I've called

it all. It's almost like a knee jerk reaction, and typically people associate that in a bad way, but I don't mean it in a bad way. And it kind of goes back to my point is like, obviously it was disastrous what they tried to do. It didn't work, and so it almost feels like they're overcorrecting, going back to what they know. But again, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, it would be great to implement a new scheme and be multiple and be complex,

but it's hard to do during a pandemic. It did not work for whatever reason. And again, like, we could be dealing with this for another year. I really hope we aren't, but that's just the reality of the situation. They might have to do another virtual offseason in twenty twenty one and so, and you know, you know, does Mike McCarthy can he afford to be like, well, eventually we'll have a normal off season and I can do

what I want. By the time that happens. He could have had two or three losing seasons trying to implement this complex defense, and then he's out of a job. So, regardless of what's going on with the pandemic, you got to do something that yields results, and you got to do it quickly after what we watched this year. So I do not blame them for doing this because we've

seen that it can work. I mean, they were they were top ten in twenty eighteen, and they were decent last year, and we've always said, like, you only need to be decent with the offense that this team has, and I think this gives them the best chance to be decent quickly, Whereas if you're trying to overhaul it again for the second time in two years, who knows

what you're gonna get, you know. I thought our mail back question today was interesting, and it's kind of a difference of people that view things half glass, you know, glass half full or half empty, And it's the question is do you think that hiring Dan Quinn is an indication that the front office believes it has the right players on defense, it just needs the right scheme. And I actually said I disagree on that. I do too. I think it's the other way. I think it's they

don't feel like they have the right players. They just need a coach in a scheme that'll help coach them up. I don't know how you guys feel about that, but there's two different ways to look at it. But now I don't think the players are here at all. I

think that's exactly right. And the reason why I do is because if you guys remember, like the reason why they went to the defensive staff that they brought in last year and what we heard, I remember Cheetos saying this cynic press conference, we're not gonna be as as vanilla as we've been. We're gonna be We're gonna have more complex defense. We're gonna give them different kinds of looks.

They went from simple to complex this last year, and I think in going back to simple, I think what it says to me is the problem was not the scheme in the first place. The problem is the players. So I'm very interested now to see what happens with

a lot of these players. Are they going to really really invest this offseason in the draft and in free agency possibly to bringing in better players, because I think this is just an admission that the direction they went was was a direction that was that ultimately showed them the exact same thing. Your players aren't good enough, which that reminds me. You know, I don't want to paraphrase too much, but Chris Rochard was on a podcast during

the season. I mean, let's not ourselves like you can make any scheme complex, you know what I mean, Like this scheme can be complex. And I think that the intimation from listening to that podcast was, you know, did they trust the talent that they had to be complex within that scheme? I don't know. And yeah, I mean, no, the talent's not here, and that I mean, if the talent was here, that scheme one or got the Seahawks to two super Bowls and almost one them both. I mean,

it's always going to be about talent. And I think again, this scheme gives them a chance to be respectable with the talent that's here. But yeah, I mean, they gotta they gotta keep adding to it. They absolutely do. All right, we're gonna take another I was just gonna say that this the fact, like to me, how I see things with play or like if it's me trying to follow someone's voice as far as the leader, and it comes

down to the defensive coordinator. With the way that the last season went down and seeing how he wasn't able to lead them to success earlier on in the season, you start losing that kind of respect right as far you know who you who that voice is, you lose respect.

And I feel like this year maybe there is a different kind There will be a different kind of pressure because now you change that voice, you bring someone in that has very proven success in the past, and then now it's I think it just shines more line on these players and more accountability. Now you don't have the excuse are like, oh, it's just too complicated or whatever. Now it's really on you and what you can do

as a player. Yep, let's do this. I want to have a question for you guys that I'm gonna there are four different characteristics or four different things about Dan Quinn that I think stand out, and I'm gonna give you all four and then I want each of you guys to rank for me one through four which one you think matters the most all the way from what matters the most what matters the least? All Right, here are the four. First, he specialized as a defensive line coach.

We know all the issues they've had on the defensive line, So him specializing as a defensive line coach, how much does that matter? Two he coordinated one of the greatest defenses of all time in the two thousand and three Seahawks. Three he worked with both three four and four three schemes, so he can do either one and four. He's been to three Super Bowls with two teams. He was the

defensive coordinator Seattle, obviously head coach in Atlanta. Let's start first with you, Amber, how would you rank those four things as far as most important matters, most down to matters least. I think to me what matters most is his ability and flexibility in changing schemes and just having that experience with both of them. Obviously, that's something that we saw that cow we struggle with, So I think that's really going to be beneficial to him and the

team in what deciding what direction to go with. Second, I think, uh, you said one of the top defenses and then the Super Bowl right, yep, and the defensive line coach yep. I would say leading a defense that was that had a really, really good reputation because to me, again, I want to listen to a voice that has validity, that has recognition, that has the experience, and because that makes me want to listen to you. So I think

that really matters to me. And then third, I would say, um, the defensive line coaching experience there, that's something that we saw the CAB we struggle with as well this past year, So I think that's going to be beneficial too. And

then last, probably the super Bowl. I mean, yes, that's important too, but I think that like building the basics and having that voice and all of that is just more important than just saying, oh, we made it to the super Bowl, because so many of the different things can't happen for you to get to the super Bowl?

Got it, Dave? With all due respect to Dan Quinn, I don't care at all at this point that he coached the Seahawks defense, and first of all, it was a decade ago, and second of all, you know that defense is probably gonna send four guys to the Hall of Fame, or at least they're going to have cases to be Hall of famers. So congrats. I mean, Chris Richard got all of that credit when he got here too.

For me, the big thing is probably the defensive line expertise, you know, if that's if that's what he excels at. I mean, the most expensive and best player on your defense is DeMarcus Lawrence. So anything to help him. I don't want to say recapture his game, because I you know, I think he's a lot better than most fans want to give him credit for and media for that matter, not just fans, but even still, I mean, if you could get him back to being a twelve, thirteen, fourteen

sack kind of guy, that would be great. And then I'm interested to see, you know, what he does with the other pieces he has. You know, he's kind of famous for having that LEO position, which is like it's like a linebacker designated pass rusher hybrid role. That's something Randy Gregory could do. I've said a couple of times, I think maybe it's something Jalen Smith could do. You know, maybe maybe hiring Dan Quinn is a way that you can try to reclaim Jalen Smith's career. So that's the

big thing for me. And then probably you know, just the fact that he's been to Super Bowls does matter to me. Though, just because I think people will will listen to and follow a guy that's, you know, achieved that level of success in the NFL, because lord knows, there aren't very many guys on this team, if any. Are there any guys on this team that have been that deep in the playoffs? Ever, I guess Alden Smith, and we don't know if we don't know if he's

going to be back. So yeah, having oh well, and I mean Mike McCarthy obviously, but having guys in the building who know what it takes to get there, I think is important. Hey, Dave, I got a question for you, and I honestly don't know the answer to this, so you you may not know either, But you mentioned those guys from Seattle that are that you would say are heading to the Hall of Fame. They will part of

that defense, if my memory serves correct. A number of those guys and I Richard Sherman jumps to mine, Michael Bennett jumps to mind. They were not highly touted players when they got there, Like they weren't first round picks. These were not guys that you brought them like you thought, hey, they're great, like somebody had to help coach them up to get them to that point. Is that it was that a kind of a crossboard. Obviously, I know Earl because he came from Texas. He was a high draft pick.

But the other guys I don't think they were were they How do you let me just do my point, Wagner? Did I just go your point? Yeah? My turn? Okay, go ahead, Dick. Sorry, not number one. And it's Nick, by the way, but number one is uh. I think for me, it's Seattle. It's it's it's getting it's creating Seattle, making Seattle a great defense. That would be the number one thing for me, and Dave said it was last it'd be number one for me. D Line coach would

be number two. And then going to three super Bowls and then the four three, three fourth scheme. I've just dismissed that because this team doesn't need it. Don't confuse them, No, just just whatever it is. I mean, it's cool that you can do both, but once you just pick one out of the stop it. Yeah. And we'll get to this a little bit later on, but I mean, you know, then the players have to be able to be accountable

to you know. But but I think and that is my point that you were making about the Seattle defense, those great players. Camp Chancellor was a fifth round pick, um and ar Old Thomas was a first round pick, and there's no doubt he was great. Richard Sherman was a fourth round pick, um Byron Maxwell sixth round, and then some of these other guys. Now, Bobby Wagner was on that team, right, Yes he was. Bobby Wagner was the second round so he was the second round pick kJ. Right,

I don't know what round he was drafted. I mean the MVP who came here, Malcolm Smith, I mean he was he was not, you know, so Michael Bennett one of their best pass right. So I say that because that they developed a scheme around players that weren't, you know, highly talented all that. And they have some of those guys here. But they're gonna have to do that as well.

They're gonna have to get second, third, fourth round picks, not just from this draft, but but early other guys, some some cast off, some free agents and mold them together. And so I think that's really important that he was able to do that. All Right, we're gonna check our first break, but they do you have something I just I'm the reason. And obviously when you when you find Hall of famers, I mean, you get credit for that, But I just I lean more toward thinking that's almost

lightning in a bottle. I mean, he hasn't been able to recreate that in Atlanta when he was running a team. I mean, you know, they've spent a ton of draft picks on defensive players. I'm planning on writing about that this week, and they've had some success. But when you put together a defense like that, it's it's like Tampa Bay in the early two thousands, like, are you coaching geniuses because you had all this talent or did you just find a way to accrue an astonishing amount of talent?

Because Dan Quinn was in Atlanta for five years and doesn't look like anybody on any of those defenses going in the Hall of Fame. That's that's all I mean by that is I just don't know if you can hang your hat on that as something that you can do reliably. But you know, I would question out a little bit as well, because that year when they went to the super Bowl, that defense was pretty good. They had a lot of guys for that defense. If you go back and look that got hurt the following year.

I think their linebacker their safety, which were two of their better defensive players, both got hurt that following year. And that's one of the reasons why I think their defense took a nose dive. But they were they had a pretty good defense that first year. Now, of course, the retort to that is they gave up a twenty eight to three lead, and so, but that happens. Trust me, I'm I was an older fan. I know it happens

like this happens. But but again, my point is, I think he started to kind of rebuild that in Atlanta, and I think he got them to a point where they were good enough to go to a Super Bowl. I think he's gotta get some credit for that. Enough to get a twenty eight to three lead, I mean true, I mean you know, I mean, it wasn't it wasn't like it was just nobody that came back. I mean, he expected them to come back there. They should have

won that game. We know that. But you know, and they're they're pretty good at I'm not one thing we know about Dank and those Falcons defense is that better not put a bad left tackle out there. Because he put a bad left tackle out there, you can make a really good player into like all world. He's still playing, by the way, I saw said the same thing. Yeah we were, you guys, say Dave. I just I'm not trying to I'm not trying to hate on Dan Quinn.

My only point is that defense is like Seattle in the early part of this decade, or the you know, the oh the early two thousand Buccaneers, that those type of defenses come around once a generation. And I just I don't like the idea of being like, oh, he coached all these Hall of famers. That means he's going to find a bunch of Hall of Famers here, Like that's not realistic. It doesn't mean he's not a good coach. It's just how well but but but developed the Hall

of Famers. So that's what that's what I like about. And you're right, they he tried the same thing in Atlanta, and other teams have tried to copy them. They try to copy the Ravens, they eighty five Bears, teams like that. You try to copy it, and it doesn't always work,

And I get it. But the fact is is that it wasn't a Panther's team from a few years ago, or a Brown's team right now where they've been so awful that they just get all these picks and finally, you know, I mean the Browns finally are in the play. Well they should be. They got a lot of players that they finally have all these guys and that's what's good about Seattle is they've developed of it. You can even say that same with their quarterback. They developed it.

That whole team was developed. I think the key question will be can he develop the talent here? Can he develop guys that are currently on this roster and guys that they're going to be drafting and that they may be bringing in in free agency? Can he develop them to be the players that they need them to be. That will be the question I will ask you guys as soon as we come back from our first break.

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Dallas Coways dot com slash subscribe. Welcome back to the second segment of the Breaklock from s WBC Mortgage Studios. At the start, we are presented by Geico. Let's talk some more about some of the players that will and how this move may affect them. Obviously, dan Quinn has been hired as a defensive coordinator. There are a number of players on this defense that have not had their best seasons this last season, Jalen Smith being won, Layton

Vanderesh maybe being another. What players can you identify that maybe your opinions of what their future looks like with this team may have changed based upon this hire. Let's start with you, Dave. I don't know this for sure. I haven't talked to dan Quinn. If I had to guess, we won't be allowed to talk to dan Quinn for several weeks. But the minute his hire was announced, I started thinking about Jalen Smith me personally, because again I

think we talked about it when the season ended. Is you know, if you're changing the decordinator, that should be your number one priorities like figuring out can we fix

this guy? Can we make it work with him? And again I don't know, I don't know if dan Quinn said that, but between going back to a simplified scheme where we've seen Jaylen Smith succeed and again some of the different things that dan Quinn does like a Leo role or you know, playing more sam linebacker, doing stuff where you can rush the passer, dropping coverage but not

too too often. Things like that make me wonder if Jaalen Smith has more of a future here than I thought, because if you if you asked me Monday after the Giants game, I would be like, I really don't think Jaylen Smith is here in twenty twenty one. I really don't. And I still think that's a conversation they need to have. But dan Quinn being here makes me think maybe that's not the case. Maybe you know, between the scheme and asking him to do some different things, maybe they think

that they can salvage that situation. Nick Um, Jayalen Smith is the answer for me as well, but um other players. You know, the way you asked it was was just I have a different opinion of things after dan Quinn was hired. Um, you know, I I just don't know about the those those cornerbacks. You know you're not going to lose them all, you know, I don't or say in the in the safety as well. Um, I wonder if if they're going to try to resign Jordan Lewis or Cheeto. I mean one of those two. I think

you have to. I would I would lean on on Jordan Lewis a little bit more. No, I think, I think No, I don't think he's the better one, but I think he plays a position that something can be kind of harder to find the guy that can play the slot and now that, um, I think you have to let hisavir Woods go. UM. I don't think he's a resigned guy either. I just I don't. I don't think that works, and I don't think he's He's been a good player. But but I think and I think

about that it's Jalen Smith. But I also really wonder how much turnover there's going to be in the secondary. I don't think you can let all those guys test. I mean, they're all going to test, but I think you gotta bring some of them back amber. I just still I'm in that kind of mentality where I need to see it to believe it. And honestly, nothing has changed my opinion. This higher has not changed my opinion

as far as talent and players. I mean, you guys mentioned Jalen Smith, but I mean let Jayleen go do that somewhere else. I don't know. I just cannot get past that and Dave's reasoning behind it, because you look at a lot of the plays that happened, and yes, this is kind of like a domino effect. You know, what you do is affected by so many different elements and what's surrounding you around you. But at the same time, there were so many plays where that was on him

as a solo solo player, all on him. Didn't have to do necessarily with like scheme or anything of that. It's just football basics and still wasn't good. So I don't know if you can change that. Also, I don't know if you can change someone's mentality, and I have a huge problem with that as well. So I'm sorry that does not His hiring does not change what I think of players right now, let's focus in. Okay, but want to I want to specify. I agree with everything

you just said. AG. The thing is Jalen Smith is a sixty eight million dollar investment by this organization, and first of all, bench watch on the best. I don't know people people who signed yeah, people who signed checks that size. One they don't like to eat gigantic sums of money, and two they don't like to well they got they got their own press down there or something. I don't know. But and then number two, they don't

like admitting that they're wrong. And so both of those things combine if you hire and again I don't know this, it's just me. I'm just spitballing. But you hired Dan Quinn and say can you fix Jalen? And he says, yeah, I can fix jale And they're like, great. That means we don't have to cut him and eat nine million dollars and will look less stupid when he plays better. And both of those things are what make me think that he might stick around. Okay, so let's do this. Great,

can you trade him? Can you get anything? No, who's gonna trade? Who's gonna trade you for him? I don't know that, And that's not and that I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be mean. I'm saying anytime you're talking about a trade scenario, and I hear fans do this a lot where they're like, well trade this guy, my thought is always okay. So the same reason you're trying to get rid of him is probably what everybody out there that would trade for him is also looking at.

What is the trademark. Well it's more than that though, because they can't just cut him regularly. If you cut him regularly, he's gonna be nine million dollars. There's no there's no June first trade. That doesn't work. And that's the thing. You've got to cut him before March tenth

or whatever. And because he's got a big seven million dollar bonus coming if he's on the roster in the fifth day of the league year, so you got to cut him before that, but designate him as a June one cut, so it's only counting about a million instead of nine and a half. And that's a huge that's a huge difference. So the trade and the cut, if he's off the roster, it doesn't matter either way. All that money comes to the front, so they're gonna eat a lot of it. So I understand what Dave's saying.

He's like, if this guy says he can fix them, that's fine. But he's not the first guy that said he could fix him. But let's talk about him like you Well, let's let's zero in a little bit on Jalen specifically. He did have he had a quote at the end of the season he was asked a question specific to whether he thought he would be back this season after the season that he's had. And I think our producer, Chris Beam, I think Chris has the audio. Let's listen to what what Jalen had to say. Will

be back me? Yeah, I mean watch the film. Um. But for me, it's a blessing. It's a blessing to be able to play this game. Um. So many people thought I'd never played ever again. So for me, I'm my worst critic, um, and I'm my biggest fan. I'm gonna keep battling, keep grinding. But the guys that that that no football and know our scheme and watch film. Um, I don't have to speak on I don't have to

have to speak to myself. It's all love. It's all love. Well, he I don't know if we heard the very first part. I did not hear it, but I think the fans are I think fans. Yeah, Okay, when he said watch the tape, yeah, I mean that that's that. That was the that's his response to the question. Uh, and you know, we just watched the tape and I mean that's and in somewhat of a arrogant way, I meant the tape. Yeah, well, and I've said this before. Um, he's wrong. On he's

his worst critic. He's wrong. Nobody can be their biggest fan and the worst critic. That doesn't happen. The people that ask the question to begin with are worst critics than him because they're not as big as fan. So, um, we might have some of his worst critics are right over there in that TV right there, like on the other side and on this show here. Now, he's not his worst critic and that's his problem. He's self awareness is not there. Reaction Amber, Oh, I'm trying to control

what I'm gonna say. Okay, first, its first. You know, when I initially heard the audio, I was like, I absolutely like my eyes almost came out of my skull, like with the eye roll that I did. But when I watched the video made me feel kind of bad because watching him, you get that sense of kind of him being defensive, you know, when you're trying to defend yourself. But a big thing that you have to listen to

is his initial reaction. How surprised and how so like what you're asking me and that that question, like how unaware like and how like in another world that he's living and I don't understand because players have to watch film after each game, you have to evaluate yourself, and I'm assuming coaches evaluate and given evaluate evaluation to players as well. So my problem is it's with that whole

thing of self accountability, accountability. Like Derek, you know, if I assel up or whatever, I'm not gonna sit there and excuse myself. I'm gonna say, you know what, you're right, but let me prove to you that I can do better and I'm gonna do better and all that. But the fact that after a whole season of us everyone watching film, watching him play, watching the Cowboys play, that

his response is that watch the tape. I mean, you're delusional there, and again some of those plays in that last game against the Giants, the fact that he was cheering and stuff like you know, the wrong moments, that you're only thinking about yourself. That is another step of like you're not being aware of what the heck is going on in the game itself, which is a huge

problem because that's something that's very very important. You need to be aware of everything that's freaking happening in a game. So at this point, I get that it's a lot of money. His contract is a lot of money. But man, it's not worth the headache for me. But again, it's not my money, so I don't know. I'm not the cowboys to tell them what to do with it. But they've made my choice and this is what we're seeing now day. It's my money and I need it now.

That's what That's what that made me think of. Um, I always, you know, I always I'd say it a lot. You know, I know a lot about this game. I take my job really seriously. I'm always trying to learn more. But I've never coached or played at an elite levels. So like, I'm not going to be the guy that flips on the tape and like I can diagram the

coverage and tell you for sure what everybody's doing. Like I always try to avoid that because I think most people who try to do that, with very few exceptions, are faking it in my opinion. Having said that, I know enough about football that I can turn on the tape and tell you that. Jalen Smith, like, why are you telling people to watch the tape because it's bad? It's it's not good, Like I know that anybody that's watched it knows that if you have NFL game Pass,

you can go look at it. That was my reaction when he said that. I was like, does he really

want people to do that? Because I don't think it's gonna go the way that he thinks it will, because I don't have to know the difference between coverages or no all eleven assignments to see Jalen not being able to get off blocks, or being late to diagnose the play, or just diagnosing the play in the wrong direction, barrel rolling out of the hole that he's supposed to be in for some reason, just losing guys in the flat

because he's not fast enough to catch them. That happened a few times against the Ravens, right off the top of my head, Like these are all easy things that anybody can see watching, Like you don't have to be an expert on football to see it. So I don't know why he said that is really my big takeaway from that. And you know, I don't know where it goes from here, but but it just it was obviously

not good enough for a variety of reasons. And that's not even taking into account the penalties and the self awareness and all that type of stuff, just from a standpoint of are you a thirteen million dollar linebacker, like anybody who turns on NFL game pass could tell you. No, you know, Dave tell Oh sorry, I was just gonna ask Dave to tell the stat. Remember when we were watching the game against the Giants and we were talking about his stats in tackles. Oh, yeah, leading the team,

and I thought that was a pretty good one. I actually somebody on Twitter told me this way back earlier in the season and like, I'm sorry, I don't remember your name, so like I didn't come up with this, but it blew me away. I'm pulling up the stat right now. So we were talking about, you know, Jalen led the team in tackles. Jalen finished the season number two in tackles, and that sounds really impressive. But somebody was like, yeah, go go look at how many solo verse,

how many assisted? And it was eighty nine solo verse, sixty five assisted, whereas a lot of you know, Zach Cunningham from Houston one hundred and sixt fifty eight assisted, Roquan Smith ninety eight to forty one, Devin White ninety seven to forty three, like you want more solo tackles than assists. And I think a lot of people have astutely pointed out Jalen Smith knows how to dive on a tackle after the fact because he knows it's going on.

He knows what's going on the stat sheet like he knows, and it shows in the stats it's like an even split between solo and assisted. And I don't think that's a coincidence. So shouts out to the Twitter user who pointed that out to me. I'm sorry, I don't remember you, but I thought it was a various stude observation. That is a very very interesting stat nick. Nick, what were you about to the things that dan Quinn's going to bring his armed things that really matter to what Jalen

Smith's problems are. You know, it doesn't matter about the scheme. In my opinion, he still goes around blocks instead of through the guy. He looks to avoid contact at time. He makes too many business decisions when when when he does that, it creates a big hole. You know, I don't think he takes contact as much as he's supposed to.

And I don't think and you know, and the things that have been criticized with him about and internally you know that that he's not as physical as he should be, is that he doesn't prepare like he should be prepared. In their stories about that, and he's too stiff, you know, like those are the things that a new schemes not necessarily gonna fix. Now, I'm I don't care if he swipes on a play he didn't make. I don't care. Marcus Spears danced on de wear sacks all the time.

Who cares like it's a team thing. Make a play, you're excited. That's fine. And I've said it this a thousand times. Nobody was on that Fiesta Bowl field with where he was thinking his career was over because he played in a bowl game, which give him credit for that, because no one does anymore. And and then you know he thinks his career is over. He comes back, he gets a big contract, he plays in the in the

in the Pro Bowl, all that kind of stuff. His perspective is not going to be the same as everyone else's. It's not. So I tried to accept that. That's fine, But you gotta prepare, you gotta be a better player, you gotta you can't leave your teammates out to dry and stuff like that, and you gotta be, like they said, you gotta be more self aware. But the swiping because someone else made a play, who cares? You're off the

field as a team, who cares? Well? I think I think his reaction to the question is the part that is big for me, and it actually brings up an interesting question. We're gonna take a break, but when we come back, I'm gonna ask you guys this question. What I think this illuminated to me was one of two things has to be true here. Either the coaches agree with him that he's playing really well, or they're not holding him accountable and telling him that he's not playing

really well. One of those two has to be the truth for him to have that kind of response. We're gonna take our break when we come back, I want you guys to answer which one you think is more likely when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. We're back. He's a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and Creep Soda. Let's take a listen Doctor Pepper and cream

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Switch to AT and T five G. It's not complicated. Five G requires compatible plant may not be in your area. See att dot com slash five G for you for details. Back to the break, Hold on just a second, Well, I find up a really good one here. How about at and T Stadium Tours. You can start at and T Stadium, the home of the Dallas Cowboys, running on the field, see the locker rooms, so much more. Tours are available daily at and T Stadium dot com slash tours.

So I thought you were going to read the one about ordering food, because like this, I'm actually in the middle of that right now. I was telling you before we went on the air. My high school teams playing at at and T Stadium this Friday State championship God cougars and and I'm right in the middle now trying to figure out what we want to have in the suite, you know, And so I'm trying to like choose my best my favorites. Gotta have the mac and cheese the

whole night, you know. Yeah, and we all know you just said that because you wanted to say that your school is in Yeah, which is to find a reason to go whatever. Hold on, let's just we got we got enough time we can talk about this. So Crosby High School is Crosby Hospital. They're playing in the state championship at AT and T Stadium. They have never won a state championship in anything as a team. No, never.

The only state championship that there's ever been one at Crosby High School is an individual award from Derek Eagleton as the debate State Championship. So, so y'all remember that state amber when you're trying to argue a point. Just remember this state champion debater. That's awesome. By the way, I didn't know. I didn't know he ever. Yeah, I

didn't know he won state. But I mean I'd have to be a fool at this point not to know that Derek lives to argue you remember you remember the conversation you lost, Remember the one at the time that Derek said, you know, that's a great point. You're right, I'm wrong about that. Wo really yeah, it was a Wednesday. It was like two thousand and nine. It happened. It happened just in the break. Yes, Amber, you were right.

I did absolutely much. No, that's a good point actually, because you were telling me this for a month now, and I'm just realized that's because your rundowns are longer than war in peace and so at the bottom say, maybe we'll have a fan questions whatever, but just curiosity. What was the topic that you won on the debate? Do you remember? I think that year it was about nuclear weapons proliferation. I think I think that was the topic that year, but I'm not certain. I think that was.

That's awesome though, by the bay was nineteen ninety one. State champ still do that debate? Like State? Yeah? Yeah, okay, they have nationals, they have everything. Yeah, did you have nationals? I went to nationally, did not compete. I was an alternate for Nationals. Okay. Yeah, Well so I'm just blown away. I love the Uh you know, college football season ended on Monday night and we haven't played the state title games for Texas. Yet that's crazy, and I'm gonna put

money on it. You gonna have a stadium that will have a ton of people in it for this state championship as his customary in Texas. Are they gonna let you go into the stadium with your trophy? Are you gonna have to put that on the side or go through? I don't even know where my trophy is. Probably my mom probably has it. You might have walking around seeing these people you haven't seen forever. I am. I'm actually looking forward to seeing all my old classmates. They'll all

be here. So it's gonna be a big dealful Cross. If you could, we got small test their eyes. I will recognize them. Trust school. All right, I have a sweet. I don't have Jerry sweet, but I do have a sweet, and so we will have some. We have good time. It's gonna be fod Crosby Cougars, Cougar Crosby copies. All right,

So here's what I want to do. I was gonna ask this question right before he went to break Jalen Smith um his reaction and ember you talked about you pointed out his reaction in this that his reaction was one where he was almost just surprised anybody would ask him this question. And it made me think one of

these two statements has to be true. Either his coaches believe that he is playing as well as he believes he's playing, or they have not held him accountable and told him he's not playing that well for him to be that surprised, Which one do you think is more likely? Nicholas start with, haven't haven't been upfront with him. You don't think they believe that he's playing that well? Hmm, I No, I think they believe it because there's a lot of words going around. You hear a lot of

whispers and stuff that people are talking about it. Just don't think it necessarily goes to him. I bet you, I bet you that he gets it, but I don't, you know. I bet that he gets the criticism, but I don't think it's as strong as it needs to be. And I bet you he kind of dismisses it. And we saw a video of that. We saw a video of that. We've seen some sideline clips of that where there's some people yelling and stuff. And I don't know

if he's taken it that it's tamed at him. Amber he just seems so far off from reality and just like so blinded by his own self. I don't even know what word I'm looking for, but there's absolutely no way that the coaches see the tape and see these players play and not realize the way that he has played. So I would lead more towards the fact that maybe they're not They weren't as vocal as they needed to

be with him. I mean, sometimes it takes you calling him out in front of everyone, like it takes a little bit of embarrassment sometimes for you to get someone to finally realize it, Like put the play on big display here and highlight it, because if he's not getting it,

that's a problem. And again, I think it affects what happens here mentally affects what you do on the field, and he just needed like a slap of reality and someone to really sit him down and say, hey, man, you're not really doing as good as you think you are, So here's what we need to work on, and these are the things that you need to self evaluate and try to improve on, because otherwise it's just hard to

get better. So I would lean more towards them not being as upfront as they should have, but obviously I have no idea what happens behind doors or any of that. Day. Kind of goes back to the point I was making in the last segment, which is, you know, if I have if I say something like if if Mike Nolan wants to call me on something, be like, you don't even know what coverage we're running, I'll probably back down

and be like, you know what, You're right. You've been coaching NFL football for more than I've been alive or close to it, Like, who am I to question your expertise? In this case? I will gladly sit down with anybody that wants to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, because like, like even my dumb ass can sit down and look at the tape and I'd be like, Mike Nolan, you are wrong. If you think Jalen Smith played great this year, you're wrong. I like,

I'll gladly say that to him or anybody else. And so the only thing I can come up with is that they weren't totally honest with him, and I you know, I guess that's that's probably human nature. You know that doesn't every office place in the world probably have an employee where it's like, don't I mean Toby's Toby, don't worry about him. Like, yeah, it's annoying, but like, well, you know, we'll work around it and it'll be fine. Like every office has that person as far as I'm aware,

and probably football teams too. So that's that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah, And one of the things to that point, Dave, I think sometimes what happens, and we all probably know these people in life, that they hear what they want to hear. They hear the positive, and they soak all that in. But when you give them critiques and feet and feedback that that may not be positive, they just kind of let that fly just right over their head and they act like they didn't hear it,

and they don't take in the criticism. Maybe that's a defense mechanism, who knows, but they don't take in the criticism as well and really kind of let that seep in and figure out, Okay, I need to be better in these areas. They only hear what they want to hear, and so because coaches could have been saying it maybe

not strong enough to your point. To Amber's point, maybe they didn't stay it's strong enough, but maybe there's a reality that think they talked to him about this, and they talked him and showed him where he wasn't playing well enough, and he just kind of in his mind thought, oh yeah, but there's a reason why. Oh yeah, there's a reason why on that play. Oh yeah, the reason while in that play. And he never really took it

in as I'm not playing well. But but that's that's the problem, is that you want the flip side of that. I want the Jason Witten. Hey, Jason, you're a pro. You're at all pro. You're great at this, You're great at this and all that. I don't want you to actually wham the nose and try to get hurt and hit the defensive tackle. But you're great at this. And he's like, wait, wait, you don't think I can wham the nose that I know. That's a story that we've

we've been told a lot. But the difference is is that you said that there are players and people that are like they hear what they want to hear. He hears what he wants to hear. You know, some people can get complimented over and over and over, but they hear one little thing that might sound negative, and that's all that they heard. So that person's gonna get get better and try to make sure there are zero things like that that's like the opposite to him. All right,

let's let's flip the conversation a little bit. We are hearing reports at this point that the Cowboys are interested in hiring Joe Witt Junior to coach their secondary defensive pass game coordinator. That's the report. Are you writing a story on that right now? Dave? Sorry? Yeah, bad? I thought he would maybe I think might be writing this right Is he breaking it for us? No? Um, let me get your reactions of it now. He was with Dan Quinn in Atlanta. He's also been with Mike McCarthy

in his career at Ering Bay. What's your reaction to the Cowboys maybe making a change there in the secondary as well? Well? It's a little it's interesting right now because we have not heard that they have a secondary coach vacant spot available there, so I don't know about that, but or that he's not an under contract. But I I'll say this, when he interviewed for the job, that's exactly what I thought was going to happen. When you interview for the DC job. It's like, Okay, well we'll see,

we're gonna interview some other guys. Um, but if if this doesn't work out, would you be interested in maybe a secondary coach. I guarantee that was part of it um that went on there, So it doesn't surprise me, and I think it would be a good move. It'd be a step up for what they had because no offense to the guy they had, but they haven't been coaching NFL cornerbacks and secondary guys like he has, so I think it would be a step up if they go that way. Camber definitely a step up. I think

that a change there was needed as well. And again this is one of those things that I don't really know because I'm not in there, so I don't know the dynamic as far as how much there is to blame on position coaches versus the defensive coordinator, So I don't really know the dynamic there. But clearly the secondary

as a whole struggle all throughout the season. I mean, these players were doing things that it was just like wow, unbelievable, the amount of separation, the coverage and a lot of things that also the whole scheme thing and understanding what they're doing is gonna help, obviously, but just in general,

I think that maybe a change there was needed. The only thing that makes me concern a little bit, I guess, not really concerned, but just like, is the whole relationship with Mike McCarthy, just because I knew the relationship with Mike Nolan and then it's like, oh, he had his buddy in here, So I just I it makes me wonder, Okay, is this another one of his buddies And it's just like, oh, I know you, let's just work together again type of

thing versus Am I really just looking strictly at your resume, resume and your accomplishment, you know, I hope that makes sense what I try to say, Dave. I mean, I like the fact that he's got a ton of NFL experience. Obviously he was with McCarthy and Green Bay, and from what I read this morning, it seems like, you know, people around the packers have a favorable opinion of him.

I'm not gonna pretend like I know the whole book on his career, but yeah, you know, no disrespect to Mo Linguist, but you know, he was coming from Texas, A and M. This guy's been around the NFL for a fairly long time, so I definitely don't have a problem with it. I don't I don't know that I'm informed enough to be like, yeah, this is an amazing

higher but I'm certainly not against it. Yeah, I think all all in all, I think there's there's a lot of reason why you would you would want to think that maybe they want to do something different if you look at the parts of the team that didn't perform up to snuff. Secondaries one area where you look at and you say they did have some some really big issues throughout the season. Um, and I'd be interested to see.

I know there's a little bit of concern on a part of some people that are observing this from the standpoint that this is a guy that came from Atlanta where last year they had one of the worst passive defense, if not I think the worst past defense in the NFL. And and it to me, the first thing that popped into my mind was, and I know we talked about this on the show last year when the Cowboys went up and got Don Terry Po and Gerald McCoy from Carolina where they had the worst pass defense in the

in the NFL. And then I mean, it's our run defense. And then you bring them in here and you think your run defense is going to get better, it's And again that is not necessarily saying that Dan win and if they make this move with Joe Witt that they won't be able to make this defense better. But that was the first thing that popped into my mind that

you have to be cautious. And I do think that some of the people that are having that reaction, I think it's a fair reaction to have when you look at the production that they had last year that they got out of that Atlanta defense. Real quick, before we tie up this conversation, I wanted to read this. Our producer Chris Beam in the break, pulled up some of the stats we had asked this question earlier about where they got the talent for that Seattle defense that became

one of the best of all time. I want to run this down for you guys. Here were the guys and where they would draft at Cliff April third round pick, Michael Bennett, undrafted free agent, Brandon Mebaye, third round pick, Chris Clemens, undrafted free agent Rett Bryant fourth round pick, Malcolm Smith's seventh round pick, Bobby Wagner's second round pick, kJ Wright fourth round pick, Bruce Irvan first round pick, Richard Sherman fifth round pick, Earl Thomas first round pick,

Cam Chancellor fifth round pick, and Byron Maxwell sixth round pick. They only had two first round picks on that defense, one second round pick. Everyone else was third or below, a couple of the guys being undrafted free agents. That I think it's what's the most impressive about getting Dan Quinn. Is you getting a guy that built that defense out of guys that were not highly touted. They were not

guys that were highly drafted. They were primarily guys they brought in that they thought fit and they coached him up and got them ready to play. Dave, you have something. I mean, maybe I'm quibbling, like, yes, Michael Bennett was an undrafted free agent. They also signed him in free agency after several very successful seasons in Tampa Bay. I mean, they did not develop him from nothing into something. He was already ann commodity when they signed him. I mean,

it's really impressive. I've written stories over the years. I mean, Seattle laid the blueprint for what everybody has tried to do over the last decade, which is hit on the draft and find a quarterback on a rookie contract who can help you pay all those guys before he needs his own pay day, I guess, and people deserve credit for that. Like I said, like I'm not trying to take anybody's credit away, but with each passing year, it just goes to show how hard that is to achieve.

I'm Seattle just extended their GM. John Schneider, who was the architect of those drafts. Seahawks fans will probably tell you they really haven't been that great in the draft since then. I mean, you know, they found DK Metcalf, they found a few other really good players, but they have not hit with near the consistency that they did when they had the drafts that put that team together. So,

like I said, people deserve credit for it. But it's just not realistic to think you're gonna do that because it happens very, very rarely, and no doubt that's my only point. I guess. The way I look at it is I'm not asking you to build the twenty thirteen Seattle Seahawks. I'm asking you to take a few players that the Cowboys gotten third, fourth, fifth rounds and TOURNAMENTO players.

If you can do that, and as we've all said on this show, if you can get this defense to play middle of the row football and you got your pieces on offense, I think this team can be successful. I'm not asking you to be the best of all time. I'm asking you to have a good defense, a relatively good defense. Bro That was twenty thirteen. Zoom was created in two thousand and eleven, so I mean they didn't even have virtual stuff going on right now, so hopefully

that they won't have to figure that out. All intence, you're about to wrap up the show, I'll just take the Chiefs. Yeah. Well, what I was gonna do is I'm gonna go through each one of you guys, and I want you all to pick all four games real quick before we in the show. Nick, you got Chiefs, Ravens, Packers, Saints. But Chiefs, Ravens, Packers, Saints, all right, and that be

four winners? All right? Yeah? They all plan? Okay, Okay, Dave Um, I really like I don't all I'm gonna say is I want to see the Chiefs play the Bills, and I want to see the Packers play the Saints like I want those two matchups. I think those are probably the four most complete teams in the NFL. Uh. You know, obviously that doesn't mean everything because we you know, the Rams already screwed that up because I wanted to see the Sea Hawks in the next round against Screen

Bay as well. Um, so there's no guarantee that that's gonna happen, or I guess they probably would have played the Saints whatever, the point being, I don't know what's going to happen. I certainly think that Rams defense is capable of stopping the Packers, but I want to see Rogers breeze and the Bills versus Mahomes. I think those are the best possible matchups. So that's what I'm hoping happens, all right, Amber, I, Um, we didn't really do a good job last week, but this is a new week. No,

y'all were three and three. Oh you took Tom Brady. Yeah, and you were trying, and I did try. Y'all talk to me. You also told us Alex Smith is gonna play Derek. Well, yeah, I was hoping. I don't think you would have played as well as that kid did. Also, Hey, my apologies to the Cleveland Browns. You deserve it. I called y'all frauds. I still think you're frauds, but you deserve you sound like Stealer's Day, You really credit. You sound like Juju and in Claypool. Right, do you think that?

Do you think the Browns are gonna beat the Chiefs? Oh? No, I don't think so. But I will say this, if they were playing any of those other teams, well maybe not the Bills, I think they will give them a game, and I would not be shocked if we come in here next week and they actually won, that wouldn't shock me. But because they are playing really well right now and they've got the right pieces, they definitely do well. I

don't think this is gonna happen. But I'm picking all the home teams, looking at all the matchups, every team that I would choose to win, it's playing at home, So Green Bay, Buffalo, the Chiefs, and then New Orleans. All right, and I'm gonna go with all the same picks that you guys have, Bills, Chiefs, Saints except for Rams. I think the Rams are gonna upset the Green Bay Packers this weekend in Green Bay. I think that's that

that Rams team. I like that defense, and I think they match up well with with what the what what Green Bay does. If you can shut down Davante Adams or at least a gym, which they got Jalen Ramsey, then you got a shot against Green Bay, and I think that's what they can do. So we'll see this goes be some fun football this weekend. I hope Nick's a little more excited this weekend than he was last week.

In every game, there we go. That's why I watched every game, not every player, but I watched every I got the Twitter fights about you know what, I will never understand what anyone does with a two point conversion. I don't care. I don't get it anymore. I don't understand it. Whatever it is. People have their own theories. Cool, don't it shocks me what people do with two point conversions? Whatever it is, what it is? All right, appreciate you guys,

you want us. We'll be back next Wednesday. We'll get into some more topics concerning the Cowboys till then. For Nick, even Dave Hellman, Amber Garcia, I am Derek Eagleton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.