Cowboys Break: Help Needed At Safety?

Eagleton and mister Dave Hellman. Are you happy? Yeah? Okay, that's just making sure you seem very quiet this morning, always happy. How are you guys doing great? Great over here? I forgot we had a host. I told you we're mixing this, not host. We sing up. Derek and I have team up to be better hunger, to be better by anger. We've team up to make this better. That doesn't sound that good, but anyway, So I last practice,

last padded practice. I okay, that's when people are all draining, Derek. Yeah, but do you come up and save me Hollywood, and people are dating? I can I'm married exactly. Yeah, okay, so last padded practice? We well, I gave you guys a homework to watch the defensive backs. So that's what we're gonna get into every show. We're gonna try to focus in one specific group, and today's topic defensive back.

So I want to go around the table to start it off and just kind of tell me your overall opinion of the group from what we watched on what was it Sunday? Yeah, Sunday Sunday, Derek Um I was impressed and underwhelmed all at the same time. And the reason why I say that is because, and I think it's gonna happen like this for both the defensive backs

and the wide receivers. There's some moments when you see a spectacular play that one side makes, and then the next minute you'll see a spectacular play the other side makes. I don't think either one of those groups. And we're gonna focus in on defensive backs, but I don't think there's a guy yet that has that has done just been so remarkable on the defensive side of the ball that every time he's out there, you expect him to

shut somebody down. Norther, I think they have those kind of players right now in the development of where they are as players. So I think you're gonna see a little bit. Sometimes you see some wins, sometimes you see some losses. I think that's just kind of the general

nature of what this defensive backgroup will be. Yeah, the best defensive backs are going to be the ones that have a good pressure up front, you know, and you're not gonna see that a lot out here, because they're not gonna just be flying to the ball and knocking the you know, the ball out of that quarterback's hands, are rushing him to make those rolls, so they're always

going to be at a disadvantage. They do one on one drills, you know, wide open spaces there, and you know, they get beat a lot, so they get beat most of the time. And the one on one drill, so I think they've been okay. Um, but you're never really gonna be great unless you've got these shut down corners, and I don't know if they have that right now. I think the receivers win those battles most of the time. Anything that stood out to you during that practice, I

agree with all of that. I just overall, I just feel really good about the competition at cornerback because I think you've got about five pretty solid guys. Yeah, I mean you don't have probably don't have a lockdown corner on this team right now, but I don't have to have one about that you don't. But I feel really good about it. Um, it's we talked about this on the last show we did, which I guess was what Saturday. Now we did a show yesterday. Yeah, I'm dumb, It's okay. Um,

it's hard to judge safeties. And not only is it hard to judge safeties, but like there just aren't very many of them. Cavon Fred is not practicing right now. I don't know if he's gonna practice today. But so you're looking at Jeff Heath and Xavier Woods and they're not really allowed to do the thing that makes them good at what they do. So it's hard to get a beat on that. But I feel good about the

competition at cornerback. Well, let's start off and jump bright into cornerbacks in safety is a deeper issue or bigger issues, And can I say something real quick in before you jump into that, just so you guys know, we're as we've been doing throughout training camp. We have a quote question up on the mobile app, so if you guys want to interact with the show. The question is which defensive back are you most excited to see this season?

And we mentioned the normal group of characters, the three cornerbacks, Jordan Lewis, m Leos, we have the Bron Jones, Cheetah Bay, and then we also listed both Jeff Heath and um what's the other on Xavier Woods. So you guys go out there, let's know what you think. By the end of show, will know what the fans think of that which which player they're most excited to see in the second Gary this year? All right? Perfect? Okay, So let's

get into cornerbacks. And again we've we've talked about Byron Jones moving back into position, and it's hard to determine at this point whether he's going to be great or no. We talked yesterday, we talked about him being a great practice guy last year, and so far this year he has proven to be that again. Now, is this any different? Do you see any difference compared to last year that will make you feel positive that this change was worth

the move. That's a really interesting point because Byron Jones lit the world on fire at camp last year. He looked awesome, at safety, and I think everybody on this show and probably the other shows we do, would have said he was one of the two or three best performers of camp. And he wasn't bad last year by any stretch of the imagination, but he certainly wasn't the pro bowler that you might have hoped for coming out

of training camp. So I try to keep that in the back of my mind with every thing I do and say. I think Byron does too, for that matter. But like I said yesterday, I just he's so long an athletic and I think that plays well to a position where I'm simplifying it, but you really only have one job, just take care of the guy across from you. Um, And like I said, I know there's more to it than that, especially with the defense Christopher Shard runs, but

I think that might be more suited to his athletic ability. Yeah, Nick, yesterday you touched on Jerry Lewis and him you feel confident that he's gonna step up and win that role. But as of right now, the way that you're watching him in practice, you know, he's kind of the next guy up, you know, type of thing, and he's being left behind a little bit and Chris Richard talked about him being a special guy. Despite the he's not necessarily the physique the ideal physique for a corner he still

has a lot of ability to step up. Yeah, I think he's the option to the rule. And that's what UM Christopher Shards said. I you know, if the coach is gonna come here and say this is the type of guy that he likes, you know, obviously, you know you have to justify that, and guys like Byron Jones are gonna make the move. And so far he looks pretty good. I just think when the dust settles throughout the season, I think the best cornerbacks on the field

are gonna be Cheeto and Jordan Lewis. I think those two guys will rise to the front whatever however that that that is and wherever that they line him up. As UM, I think by the end of this season, I think those two will be your clear cut cornerbacks. You know something really interesting I never noticed then. This was me and Brian watching practice and he pointed it out and I never paid attention to that. How long his arms are like despite his height. No, no, no, Jordan,

Jordan Lewis he has freaking long arms. I'd come down to almost his knees, and I guess that his team. That's why he's on this team because he does not have the height but look for but he's got the length. Yeah, so that I mean, I just never actually paid attention to that, and it's impressive just to see those freaking tentacles just coming out. But let's go back real quick

though to what Nick was saying about Byron Jones. I look at Byron Jones and do you at least do you at all give him a little bit more, give the possibilities of him being a really good cornerback a little more chance. When you think of it from the standpoint, he was drafted in the first round for a reason. He obviously had some amazing athletic ability. And the Cowboys since he's gotten here, they've kind of been like, Okay, play him a little bit of corner and I think

it's gonna play a safety. He's gonna be a safety. But then he wasn't. That safety wasn't what he did. And so now they got him back at corner being coming into the year knowing he's gonna play cornerback, preparing to play cornerback, preparing his body to play cornerback. Do you expect that that gives him a better shot at being a quarterback, in which case he ends up being one of the better, one of the best two cornerbacks and keeps the starting job. Yeah. I mean, like he's

got a shot for it. There's no doubt about it. And I don't think that this hasn't been one Kyle wilbur where they back and forth his rookie year, they were trying to figure out where to go with him. By his next year, he was a safety all the way, and he's safety. This is to me kind of his last shot because we didn't know he was gonna be back for a fifth year. We didn't think that he would be and he is. And you know, like it

makes some sense he was getting. You know, he was a lot of piggyback rides that they're at safety, and so the physical stature to play safety really wasn't there for him. So now that you know this could be really good at corner, especially the way they're going to play him. I think if he does really well at corner, I think this goes well for him. Maybe a new contract here or somewhere, and I think it goes really well for your defensive backs coach. Because this team doesn't win,

go to the playoffs, are all that stuff. There's gonna be a lot of changes, and I think he will be one of them. A lot of people will be going out, He'll be going up. I think, especially if a guy like Byron Jones, because it's a specific thing. Hey, I like bigger corner, this is I like to play him here. He's been okay here, I'm gonna move him here. Oh he did well, Well, what else can we do here? Right?

And I really think Christopher Shard's the guy that is going to move up two levels, jump from position to head. And I don't, to be honest with you, whether it's here or somewhere else. I think his arrow is pointing up, and I think he certainly has that kind of potential for the future, at least all the things you hear about him and what people think about him. So I

think that's I don't think that's at two levels here. Yes, I really believe that if I think that he will be if it if it doesn't happen this year, I mean, if it didn't happen at the end of the season. I mean, I think he'll be the next head coach of the Cowboys. Wow. Wow, I said two levels. No, but you just said, like, I think he'll be the that's a pretty big statement coordinator. I think that's that's

where I think his potential is. I really do. I think, and I think guys like the Byron Jones experiment stuff like that, it's a good way to start. I know he's never coached. I mean that derails the topic a little bit. I know, I think I think the world too. Yeah, I think everybody does. And I think he'll be an NFL head coach. But in this in the scenario you're postulating, you're talking about a house cleaning, and I just don't think that you hire a guy from the old staff

to be your head coach. If you're cleaning house, I think you go. I mean, unlike the last time, if it's no, well, all right, you're I mean, if you want to hire, I guess you know, if it's another situation like how Jason Garrett got the job, where you're making the change, I'm thinking more like if you make the change in January, got you, I don't you know, like if you're gonna fire Jason Garrett after eight years. I think you're gonna go do something just new and

completely fresh in a different direction. And blah blah blah. What's fresh he's but he's the he's the DBS cut. I just I don't see it. It's fine. I might be on I don't think to get to get more on the topic. To get more on the topic at hand, I don't think Byron Jones would have had his fifth year option exercise if Chris Rashard hadn't joined the staff to be perfect, which is why I think Byron Jones is going to start sixteen games at cornerback for this team.

He might not make the Pro Bowl, but I like, you know, I brought up Brandon Carr yesterday. I think it's gonna be said like, he'll be good enough to do the job. He's got his coach's confidence. And I said this yesterday too. If Jordan Lewis is going to crack the starting lineup, I think it's far more likely to be at nickelback, at least for the time being.

Which you know, I'm not trying to dog the guy too hard, but Anthony Brown has had his slips here in these first couple of days of practice, which I'll be curious to see because we know Chris Rashard likes his big corners. He said, Jordan Lewis is the exception. He's been second team since the team started practicing, even back in May. So if Anthony Brown struggles and they don't give Jordan Lewis a shot, that's really curious to me, and it says a lot about how Chris ra Shard

feels about what he needs to run this defense. Because I'm sorry, ahead, sorry, I was going to ask you, do you guys think that the position that Jordan Lewis is at right now, could this mess up with his development? Maybe a guy that we saw last year that was, you know, turning into something really good and was shining. Now you kind of put a step in front of him and kind of stop his progress a little bit just to give Byron Jones the chance. Do you think

this affects him in a negative way? I don't because these corners play a lot. I mean, it's no different than Orlando Scandrick in his second year, and he was a guy that was like battling with Mike Jenkins and he didn't get the job. And he was a little bit of a funk for a little while, but then he played a lot. He still played and he kept moving up. And if those cornerbacks have a chip on their shoulder that I think they seem to play better with that. I don't think it's going to mess up

his progress. And at this point in their career, I actually like the competition. I prefer for young cornerbacks for them to have competition then to have it's your job, like, I want them having to go out there and prove that they are the guy that should be in that position, rather than them having it kind of solidified for them as they go into training camp. So I think that's a good thing. That's what I like about this team overall.

It's so young that almost every position there's competition going on because they know everything's up in the air. There aren't a lot of solidified things where we absolutely can't take this guy out of the lineup other than the offensive line, so everybody every other position, these guys can really battle and figure out where they belong. Not only that, but as a second team corner I mean Jordan Lewis

is getting just as many reps as Anthony Brown. Is you know, he's doing all the one on ones, he's doing all the seven on sevens, and maybe the second team gets a few fewer reps than the first team, but like, not by this significant margin. If he's not, if he's not one of the top three corners by the time the season starts, then I worry about hindering his growth. But then again, cornerbacks play so much in today's NFL, and you've got to count on an injury

somewhere at some point. So, but thinking about it and about it, thinking about it from that standpoint of let's

assume that Byron plays the whole season. Let's assume Byron has a really good season, then you do have to make a decision because if Byron's contracts up, but he had a really great season and you believe in where he's going, contracts not up though, Well, if it gets to the point where the Cowboys gonna have to make a decision on his contract right at the end of this year, do they not have to make they already

made that decision. Chris Richard was like, we're re upping them, so the fifth years, not this year, it's next year. So they got him for two years yeah, the fourth year, So does that become again the question I still think still remains. Does that then become a little bit of a hindrance to Jordan if you get into a sect another year or Jordan doesn't make the starting lineup? Could does that affect his development? Could? I don't, But you know, if Byron plays at the level they want him too,

it'll be a nice problem to have. I mean, having too many corners is not a problem having exactly Yeah, exactly. Okay, Well, let's go ahead and take our first break real quick, and when we come back, we're gonna get into the whole safety position safety. It can be hard to find the right resource for learning about important financial matters. You search how did build savings? You end up reading about the one weird ingredient from supermarkets that can make you taller.

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and turf equipment of the Dallas Cowboys. Find Texas sized deals in my John Deer dealer dot com. Slash Football terms, conditions, exclusions, and warranty limitations apply seem to love for details. Back to the break. All right, we are back. We just got done discussing cornerback and now we're gonna jump writing to safety, one of my favorite topics because it's one of the most upsettings. Still, Yeah, I can't do this anymore.

I'm sorry. We've beaten it to death. Amber. Oh, we've talked about it over and over and over again, but hey, the problem is still there, so I guess we just have to keep talking about it. You raise a valid point, So as of right Nowaday, if you mentioned over and over how hard and difficult it is to evaluate some

of these safeties out here. But at this point, and we we've heard the Cowboys talk about the possibility, if needed down the line, to move Cheeto to safety, and that's something that we've all come down to an agreement that we don't like that idea, right, I think Nick, does you do? Nick? I mean, I think he's I think he's the best corner you've got, and I think that he could be really good there and you need

a great corner. Um. If this whole thing about what do we pay Byron and what about Jordan Lewis all this stuff, if that really is still happening in your safety's not doing well, then I can kind of see it. I just doubt that that's going to be the case. But if you have problems at safety, then then you're gonna have to move somebody over there. Is it Byron? Is it Cheeto? I think you move somebody or you trade for one if there's one available. I'm trying to yeah, no,

I'm trying to keep Cheeto right where he is. Hopefully Kavon Frasier can get back on the field quickly. I mean, if if it's a blood disorder. It's you know, it's not a hamstring. Take all the time you need figuring that out. But M but no, yeah, I don't. I don't want to do that. And so hopefully we see

as much of these three guys. But if it's not going to be a blockbuster deal like you know, you know who, and they clearly, for whatever reason, they don't seem interested in signing a guy like Kenny Vaccaro, Trey Boston's off the market. Finally, that seems like a type of situation where maybe you d a late round pick or a surplus player for a veteran, you know, when

you make those roster cuts that happens every year. They've done it for tight ends and cornerbacks and d linemen in the past, and they did it for a safety in twenty fourteen. Actually also, um, you know that's something that I you know, maybe you bolster your depth that way. And the beauty of that strategy is they get to

see what these other guys can do. I think they are legitimately interested in seeing if they have enough with Jeff Heath and Xavier Rhodes and whenever cornerback for them like a very good cornerback, very very good, Xavier Woods, I'm sorry, and then yeah, and then even Cavan when he comes back. I think they're interested in seeing what they have um and that gives them the ability to kind of go through camp, see what those guys can do, and then they can better address what they think the

option should be. If they're gonna look outside, because they'll know we need a guy just for depth, or we need a guy to come in here and be a starter, they'll have a little more understanding of that, I think. So let's say they they do feel comfortable at the beginning of the season with what they have right now, and they go in, At what point does it become

long enough for them? Let's say they're not doing great, what is the timeline that you would estimate for them to actually say, Okay, hold on, guys, we need to make a move here and get someone to come in and actually help at the position, trade deadline and whatever. That is October maybe, honestly, and okay, maybe it just depends its week. It's week six I think is. But like I said, it's it's not just the safety issue,

it's the whole team. It's this team good enough to go and just fix a problem or and to go into next year's draft picks by doing that, or do you just say, you know what, we got issues there, we got issues over here, We're going to have issues and you know, and and and kind of from that standpoint, I mean, I could see Jason Garrett because like we've said, I mean, if they don't do well, then then there's gonna be big changes at the end of the season. So I think you, you know, you go with every

for everything that you can. I mean, you're trying to see right now if these safeties are good enough. But I bet you your timeline is probably not even into the season. I bet a couple of weeks here, a couple of weeks of camp, and then you're like, all right, I'm just and for the I mean, like it's hard for me to evaluate, but the early returns on n Xavier seemed very positive. I had I had a conversation in the cafeteria last night with somebody who's like, his

instincts are off the charts. He's he knows exactly where to be, he knows exactly what he's doing out there, which that's great to hear. But the thing that worries me is it's it's thudding up. You know, this isn't football, and it's not another team that's scheming against you. So I wonder, I mean, if Xavier could be great all the way through. And I hate to continually doubt the guy, but when when the ammunition is live, does it change?

And if it does, what do you do? Because I've said it more times than I can count, it's the only position where they haven't really tried to fortify themselves, and that worries. But you believed in this gay when they were drafting him. You believed wholeheartedly in him so and I think they did too. So obviously they drafted him, so at some point you got to figure out if he can do it right. Yeah, but you know, it's kind of like riding a bike with training wheels as

opposed to without. It's sure would be nice to have a backup plan, you know. You know the thing about Woods is that I maybe I'm just greedy. I mean, if you made the trade to get to get Earl Thomas, then David Woods would still have a really big role because he is a unique player that can actually play a slot corner like he can do some things in your Nickel packages. I mean, maybe him and Heath rotates some things. Heath is still, you know, trying to solidify

himself as a starter. Just give me the six time pro bowler. I'll take him, okay, because we need him, and then we'll figure out where to put woods in Heath and all that stuff. But you've got a guy that doesn't want to be over there. He wants to be over here. He's really, really good, and he wants to play here for years to come. I think the far more likely scenario is, uh, the Saturday before the season, now, actually not the Saturday. The Saturday before the season, they'll

cut the roster down to fifty three. They'll cut it down. He'll cut it. They literally they'll cut it to fifty three, and some poor guy will be like, yeah, cowboy Sunday morning. Uh You'll it'll be You'll they'll trade first, and it'll be you'll be like, oh yeah, I know that guy. What Oh okay, he all right, he did some stuff and he'll be your fourth safety. That's what I think is. It's not that guy. No, no, no, no no, no no. It'll be like, oh yeah, okay, like he remember he

played he played for the Packers for a couple of years. Okay, all right, and it's not gonna get you excited, but you'll be like, well he's played yeah, because when you start Broadney Pool, when you see exact same thing they did last year with Ben ben haben Wickery, the exact same thing, you said, oh he picked off Romo on Thanksgiving a couple of years go all right, cool, Yeah, I think when you start thinking about this thing, it just makes more sense that I just I'm resigned to

the fact that that Earl Thomas thing isn't happening this year because think about it like this, if, like you said, Nick, he doesn't want to be there, he wants to be here, right well, Cowboys know that, so why give up anything for him this year? He's going to be a free

agent next year. So one more year, you take a year, let's see what these safeties can do, and you get to see what they can do in in live games, and then you know kind of whether you need to go out and get and spend the money on him, because that's the other thing. If if they if they go through this season and they feel really good about where Xavier Rhodes is woods, I'm sorry Xavier Woods. Why

do you keep doing that? If they feel really good about where Xavier Woods is, then they don't need to go out and spend the money that it would take. That's a good pampering here because we're hitting everybody. We're getting everybody from around the dail. He's on like an eight year deal that everybody over there. That's a good point. If people's jobs were not in the line, if this didn't matter as much. But the person that's making the decision, his job is not on the line. This job ain't

going anywhere, right, Stephen ain't going anywhere. Jerry ain't going anywhere. So they can make that decision and say when it comes personnel, they make the personnel decisions. So when it comes to that, they can decide, hey, we're gonna we're gonna hold on this and we'll see what happens. Well, I mean, you just have to wonder, does he let's say that you're waiting until next year, is Earl Thomlin is going to resign with the team that he's on. Maybe,

but what again? What you know is he has said he wants to be here. He might like Philly, he might get all that, but he has said, come get me. He walked in the locker room. He has made it clear I want to be a Cowboy. So in that kind of instance, like they have every reason to believe if he's a free agent, they got they at least got the inside track to be able to get his services. Right. Maybe, but let's it's easy to say that until somebody's on

the open market. True now, but I think that I think they would feel pretty good about their ability to be able to woo him. And then wonder, I wonder what it would take. I wonder what it would take if the phone call was made right now, Like, what would it take? Second round? Pick? That's it, second round for next year. I just don't think the Cowboys would do that, And at this point, I don't know that they have to. Yeah, ask A J. Smith, Marcus Lawrence keeping,

I know. That's all I got. That's all I got. Listen, listen, You're gonna go all the way to Sean Lee and I just skip Bruce Carter. That's like the best I can do. So I threw my best one out there at the beginning. So well, I think it's a two and a six, two and a six. I didn't get to give something else two and six. I just think I don't even know if they were ready to give it two, So tell me you gotta give it two and a six. I'm sorry, I don't see that happening.

Here's what I think. The Cowboys brain trust is gonna be sold or already is sold on Xavier Woods and they might not wrote was okay, let's don't try to throw me off. They might be right and they might be wrong, but like I like, nothing is going to happen in the next four weeks that's going to dissuade them, That's what. And I'm giving Xavier credit for that. He's going to play well enough that they're gonna say we

got this figure out. And they might be right. They might be wrong too, but I think that's what's going to happen. Now. That brings me to the next question. I know we have the preseason games and that's still not really seen your main guys play. But is it concerning that we see some of these guys that aren't necessarily able to go out and hit hard like real football, but go up against receivers that not necessarily our big

names and have not been proven yet. Now, how do you really evaluate their level going up against the guys that we have right now who do have talent and have been shining so far, but are now you're, you know, flashy, big star players. I don't think it does happen here,

honestly for that reason alone. I think that Woods and Heath will play well and do some good things, you know, But go out to San Francisco or to go to the next preseason game and do some things there, good or bad, and that's where people will start making more decisions on oh man, maybe they're not very good, you know. I mean I don't, or maybe they are really good. I just think it's hard to do it out here because if it's if great things happened. We say it

all the time. If great things are happening for the defense, you know, and they're covering up these tight ends, then the first thing we're gonna hear is they need to get new tight ends, because the tight ends can beat these. You know. It's just the way it is in practice. It's a great, great example from I guess it was

probably Sunday's practice, Zeke. They had a hell of a play on a screen where Connor and Travis and um lyall all got out in space, and I mean Zeke picked up big yardage, and he would have picked up big yardage regardless. But Xavier came from deep in the field, took a great angle, was right in position, and if it had been live ball, he would have lit Zeke up like I mean it was you can watch it

on video. It was there. But he didn't. And so the your your mental concept of the play changes completely because if if Xavier Woods just decletes Zeke on the sideline, You're like, what a badass play, But he didn't, so you're like, man, Zeke's awesome and the defense didn't know what the hell they were doing here. Well, that would have been our first fight of camp. Oh, no doubt, which he no the record, do not declete the star running, Yeah, do not delete that all takes right there. Just know

he makes a hit like that. Yeah, you know, James Washington used to do that for years back in the nineties. He caused fights by knocking out Alvin Harper and stuff like that. But but you know, sometimes the defense needs that kind of thing. You don't want to hurt any anybody, but you know, they've been getting beat pretty good on these one on ones and even seven on sevens, and so they need somebody to kind of step up that way. You don't you don't want to hurt anyone, but I

need to set the tunnel. Stay away from twenty one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't don't touch hit somebody else like Rob Smith hit Rob Smith. Don't touch any part of two one four exactly one. Right. In that case, you being a guy that's looking at you know, watching these players here at training camp and evaluating or trying to evaluate them the best way that you possibly can. What is something that you look for to give you some white of confidence that, Okay,

this guy is looking good. That's a good point. And that's what Dave was saying by talking to somebody over there about you know, the guy's aware, he knows what's going on, he can see the stuff happening. Be in position to hit Zeke, be in position. Don't be way over here and all you would have missed him be there and and they you know, make it where. Okay, we couldn't hit right there, but you were there to make the play. I assume you're going to make the play.

You saw the TI didn't go in motion here, and you're the one that yelled to get the linebacker over here, and Jeff moved here and you moved to the back. Be just recognize things like that. That's the start. That's the best you can really do out here. It plays on the ball, if it's up in the air. You

know that kind of stuff. I also note with Jones, one of the things I noticed in both the two big plays he's had out here was that in both situations he was trailing the receiver and he had the ability to catch up and then to be able to get in position and go up and in one instance, actually get the ball, which I know if a lot of fans are like light ball is underthrown, guess what. There are a ton of underthrown balls in the NFL.

Not every time cornerbacks come down with the ball. The ability to actually track it, go up and get it and then come down with the catch. That still is something that's valuable, and that that's the difference between batting a ball down and getting an interception, and that's a huge difference. A turnover means everything. So when you can see those kinds of skills, I think that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for, is how do they how are they playing are they are they able to when

they get beat? Are they able to catch up? Are they able to run from behind a receiver and still be able to get back into position? You know, those are the kinds of things that will tell you a lot about once you get into the regular season, when it's going in and you actually are hitting. Those things don't go away. Your ability to be able to keep up with receiver to not get beat. I think that

still matters, right right. Yeah. So a guy that some people love and some people hate Jeff Heath, And we've talked about him since he was a big hype last year at training camp. Because find me somebody who hates Jeff here, I hate them. There are people I hate. If you hate Jeff Heath, I hate you. There's a

handful of people that do hate Jeff Heath. But, um, how is like the idea of okay, okay, sorry whatever, okay, can I finish, finish, finish Anyways, he turns out to be one of the more veteran guys here on the team. What has been his role right now? And how is he looking out there on the field thus far? He looks pretty good. Um, I think that he ringing endorsement. Now,

I think I think he looks good. I noticed some stuff early, like the first day or two, just him being a little bit more vocal than I've heard out of the past from him. Um, and that's that's something I guess that that's definitely needed, uh in this secondary, you know, with not having a lot of veteran voices out there. So um. But but yeah, he's looked he's looked good. I mean, I haven't nothing stood out, but you know, he's party, he's he just he reminds me

of Barry Church. Like he's not he's not a flashy player, Like he's not he's not gonna flash doing the type of stuff that you have to do out here, you know what I mean, like fitting in the run game. Uh, you know, being that last line of defense. Like he's he's not Byron Jones. He's not going up to bat that type of stuff away. Um. And he's he's deceptively fast, but he's he just doesn't have that freakish type of athleticism like a Byron Jones that just flashes to you

in a situation like this. That's the thing I keep saying over and over again is if Jeff Heath is the best player in your secondary, you're probably in trouble. But if he's the worst player in your secondary, your secondary is probably pretty good. Which I think you could have said the same thing about Barry Church. Yeah. Um, And so that's kind of what I look at. It is that he's surrounded by more talented guys, which can

only help him. And he has not jumped out at me one time since we've been out here, but I don't really expect him to. Yeah, And the fact of the matter is, I actually think he's a better playmaker than than Barry Church. He's got a better nose for the Yeah, he's the kind of guy, like you say, it doesn't show all the time out here, but you get him in game situations. Yeah, And he seems to just kind of be around the ball and the things

just kind of happen. So you say what you want about Jeff Feith, but I'd be hard pressed to find another player in this secondary over the last few years that's made as many plays that he has really good instinct with all your eyes, all you want, He's let the team and picks three years in a row. Now, maybe that's an indictment on the rest of the team a little bit. But he's kind of goes to your theory of if he's your best player, is probably not great.

But if he's your worst player, if you go back and and I've talked to him about this, if you go back and you ask anybody, ask the fans what they don't like about him, name, name of play that they didn't like, it's always stuff that happened six years his rookie year, and it's three players, and every one of those players that made a play over him have has been called a super freak in the NFL. Megatron

jumped over him, Oh my god. Uh, Adrian Peterson carried him to the end zone, and Jimmy Graham beat him on a couple of plays that game as well. I mean, rookie year, and I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but I mean that's what people stay out. Well, those guys have made a career and some of them are going to be in Canton because of that, you know, and because that's what they did. Two of the three will yeah, huh. Two of the three, no, that's I'm saying.

But two of the three we know, definitely will be in in in cant. Graham's not done and he's got that's my point, and got a Rodgers. We know right now two of three will be in maybe a third one, but we know two of the three will be in Canton, so I think it's four. He all right, guys questions if you want to call us call us in at nine seven two four four four zero, you're so rude nick nine seven two four ninety seven four four zero zero that the second best of anything simply won't cut it,

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two four Modu laberators installed on the your camera. Back to the break, All right, guys, we're gonna be taking phone calls, and if you want to hit us on Twitter, you can tweet at us at Cowboys Break and send us whatever question or comment you may have in the meantime. You know, when you're here here on a training camp, you want to be comfortable, right because you got some feed and then you got some game. Cold comfortness outside

all the day it is. Yeah. So if I'm a man, if I'm a man or woman, yeah true, but I haven't experienced that just yet. But if I'm a man and you on the phone, yeah, and I want some comfortness all around my area what do I how do I do that? Your nether regions? Uh, well, I recommend you go to Tommy John dot com Forward slash Cowboys, because they will hook you up with twenty percent off

the most comfortable pair of underwear you've ever owned. They got workout underwear, they got regular underwear, they got like shorter underwear, like it's they got everything else, you know. They got the different styles like depending on how far down the oh, yeah, like the one that goes all the way down your knee or the ones I want. I basically want. I want compression shorts is what I want. I'm gonna just leave it your no wedges, no adjustment

das So Temmy John, dom John, Yes, Temmy John. All right, we have a call from Jack in Arizona. What up Jack? Hey, guys, what how are you guys doing today? Good besides enjoying the weather, it looks like unfortunately I'm fifteen degrees, so you go, I'm jealous. Come on out man too late, would love it? Hey? Quick question? Um. Recently, Nickiatman, you were saying that you've been noticing the deep ball a lot more um this year in camp. And I guess the question that we always hear about Dak is the

completion ratio? Is he completing some of those deep balls? And then my next question is for everybody, we know our old line is probably our best group we're out there right now. Who would you say is the second best group? Would it be our dbs? Would you see our linebackers are running backs. So I'll listen to the call. Thanks guys, all right, thank you. The deep ball, um, yeah, I think there's been some of that, um, some completions

there and not not all. I mean it's not a high complete uh you know, completed pass, but you know you can still have it can still be effective just by throwing it. That can sometimes you can get a past interference there sometimes and just just to move people back when you have zeke and you know you're gonna run the ball, just that threat of knowing that we will go deep, you can you can have some some benefits there and you don't have to complete every one

of them. But yes, it would be nice to get those down the field a little bit. And I have I've seen that something which I would agree. I mean, you're gonna scheme to the strength of your quarterbacks game, which in full team eleven on eleven scenarios. I don't think I've seen Dak throw a true deep ball, meaning like you know, twenty five or more yards down the field more than like three times four times, I mean in two padded practices. Yea, So it's something to keep

an eye on. Um. Second is my running. Yeah, it's you're right, But that's just because Zeke is so good. Right, Okay, it's exactly right. That's fine. I you know, Alabama's coaching staff is the best cornerback I'll say, I really I feel back. Yeah, I mean they've made plays. They haven't they should be making plays. These wide receivers are unproven, but I think they've handled themselves really well. Yeah for

the most part. Obviously, I mean you're not gonna they've gotten beat sometimes too, But for the most part, I think they've played well. But I mean to say about running back, I think Rod Smith has got some kind of role on this team other than just special teams. They're gonna figure out way to get him the ball. I think Jimmy he's all the wall. He's going to really do more than just be a fullback. He's going to do some things as well. So even if Zeke

is not on the field every play. I think that they've got some some depth there um and some unique skill sets. So that's right. And Darius Jackson's back, and I think he's actually looked so good out here. Now you don't know because they're not getting hit obviously, but but yeah, Darius Jackson looks looks pretty good. He looked good when he was in camp years ago. But Darius are going to lead the team in preseason rushing yards? No, I mean, yeah, that's not Yeah, it's a nice group.

I feel good about it. All right, guys, here's a question from Twitter. If Randy Gregory and Coney make the roster for Week one, which four pass rushers are you

interested on? Third and long? Okay? I would love all Right, we're gonna for the purposes of this, we're gonna say David David Irving is suspended for the first month of the season, but that's a stretch for I would love and a third and long if he's really ready to go and you can count and he's healthy and acclimated to football, I would love to see Randy Gregory at right end, Tank at left end, with Malik and Tyrone Crawford in the in the middle. That sounds great to me.

Can I make one exception of that? Sure? I love that that lineup, But I would love it if they could figure out if maybe Coney Eely could play that defensive tackle spot where you had I would I would like because I think he's a big guy, so obviously the size wouldn't be an issue. But he's got a quick step. I think guards would have a hard time to keep it up with him with his quickness, So I'd love to see him if they could possibly push him down on down. For the record, I know that's

all good. It's just that, you know, if you draft somebody in the first round to be a good player, you would think Taco would need to be there at some point. Yeah, you know. I mean, and I'm okay if Taco's the guy instead of Randy card here, Yeah, I mean, he he's like some bonus player. I'd like either one of those in that spot, like, I'm good with either one equally. It also depends on how long

are we talking here. I mean, what is third and long, third and seven or more, something where you feel pretty good to throw in the ball. They're not gonna gash you with a round. Yeah, yeah, so it's probably third and seven, third and eight, they'll rotate. I've said it already. I really don't need to be out there too. At some point, I believe Tacco is gonna take a step, but that's I mean, that's I know this sounds dumb to say about a first round pick, but he's not that.

I mean, look at Randy Gregor, Like Randy Gregory's a freak. He was like custom build to rush the passer, and I Tacco's not that type of guy. And they knew he wasn't that type of guy when they drafted him. He's a different kind of player. Yeah, But I just I'm limited in what I'm willing to allow myself to believe that Randy can do this year. Just know how long he's been out ball. That doesn't mean he can't resume that at some point, But I just I'm really

hesitant to think that he's gonna get him. Really trying to keep my foot on the break of the Randy Gregory train because it's just not fair to him. It's not fair to him, and it's not fair to fans who are and anybody like oh Sacks coming and then it just doesn't happen, and then you're mad at a guy for thinking something you never should have been thinking. Right exactly, if he plays more than like twenty snaps in the season opener, that would be a stupendous success.

In my opinion, I think they're going to have a balance every week trying to figure out if this he even is he even active? Can we get him enough quality snaps to justify him having one of these forty six spots. I don't know. I don't know if they if they can, because if he can't, just if that's all he's gonna do is rush the password, then I don't know if you can justify it. The fun of that is if we set the expectations super low, which we're trying to do right now, it'll be that much

more fun if he breaks them. But it's not fair to put those kind of expectations all cheering for him. God, yeah, man, Okay, let's take a call from Randy speaking of it. Okay, guys, A couple of things. If I know, I don't want to beat this Colonel Thomas thing up, but if the front office had a chance to get a starting defensive tackle, a three technique defensive tackle, do you think they would take that over a possible trade for Earl Thomas? And

do you see Cam Kelly making this team? Hmm, okay, So defensive tackle like a trade also, I would have I would imagine if I had to guess, Randy had like Hankins in the back of his mind saying that, I think they would have done that if they wanted to. By now. Um again, defensive tackle is another place where I could see them maybe adding a guy with a trade or you know, somebody good. You know, a veteran gets cut at the end of roster cuts, maybe they

pick him up him and at him. But defensive tackle is just so mystifying because of the way Rod Marinelli of uses guys. It's the same thing in the draft is like logic says you should do this. Marion Elli's got his own opinions. You know, they don't value one techniques his first round picks, So how much are they gonna be willing to pay for a free agent or trade for one? Um. He loves jihad Ward, They had a good grade on him. He's here. Udtone Jones is getting a lot of reps. Uh. And then you hope

Malie Collins and David Irving rotate back in. Like me, personally, I would view that as something I would want to do. I don't. I don't know how they feel, and I kind of think that they don't feel that way. Yea um, but again, I'm I'm curious to see what they do at cut time with this team because I think it could be interesting. Cam Kelly, cam Kelly, Yeah, I think

you know, it's it's early. I mean, but he's he's he's a big guy that that that you know, has got the skill set that they're they're looking for, big long, uh player, and you know he's got to go out here and and make plays. I he's got He's got as good a shot as anybody. I did. He's got

as good a shot as anybody. That's the interesting thing is, like, uh, you know, even was it last year or two years ago they had Robert Blanton, Like there's always been a fourth safety where you're like, well, you know this, this guy's got the inside track and somebody's gonna have to beat him. That's not the case this year. Like there's there's three established safeties. I think cam Kelly's got just as good a shot as Marqueston Huff, who is the

probably your fourth safety right now. So just hopefully he can string some good practices together. And what was his story? You wrote a story on the way. What's It's kind of a unique that's awesome. He's from Wiley, Texas, which is in North Dallas, or excuse me, he's from Murphy, Texas. But he went to high school in a whiley Um. His his high school coach like owned a moving company and every summer they would move like all of this, all the equipment that the Cowboys take out to California.

He would load it up. He would go to Valley Ranch and and put it in the trucks and help him ship it out here. So Valley Ranch, Yeah, yeah, that's what he said. He was like, he was like, I think it's called Valley Ranch, Like that's what the facility used to be called. And like he was like, you know, he was like, you know, this was back in the days, like when they had to Marcus Ware and Tony Romo. And I'm just like, yeah, yeah, I know, man,

thanks thanks for making me feel old. But yeah, so I don't know, just it's cool that, you know, he had a role to play with Cowboys training camp as a kid and now he's out here trying to make the team. It's pretty cool. That's awesome. And yesterday we touched on well, I mentioned Charles Charles Tapper, and I just want to get your opinion, Stephen Stones. He's asking through Twitter about Charles and his role and we know his history those far and what happens now? Do you

do you still have hope for him? Do you expect him to do anything that will actually make something out of the Thing about the thing about Tapper is that he's gonna have position. He's gonna have if he's healthy, gonna go to those preseason games and he's gonna get the play a lot. Marcus Launce, they're not gonna They're not gonna do a lot with him. I can't imagine Randy Craigory's gonna just play a ton in preseason games either.

Aroon Crawford probably not either. Right, He's probably gonna start a lot of a few preseasons. It's like Ryan Russell a year or two ago, where he just got like every snap played the whole game. I think I think he could play a lot of the game. This is the time. This is not gonna play a ton either well not well, this is the time in his career when he's got to start showing some shirt like this is. But this is the point where he's probably at risk a little bit of not making the team, like a

little bit. Well, I'm just saying, like, you know how, but early on, he's gonna get every opportunity. It gets to a point where it's like, all right, you gotta show. What my point is is he's playing with the threes, so he gets to play with the ones, in the twos and then the threes. He's to play all that whole time because he's in all of these all of these position groups. I mean all of these um you know,

depth charts. Yeah, so this is gonna sound pessimistic, and I mean, you know, no, Dave, I'm I mean, I'm I'm thinking of it purely from Charles Tapper's mindset. Randy Gregory getting reinstated is the worst thing that could have happened to him. And I'm like, he he wouldn't say that, and he probably doesn't see it that way, But that's me who's doing the fifty three projection is you could you could find a spot for him if he played well but it gets way harder if Randy Gregory is

eligible to be on the team. Uh, maybe they keep as many as six defensive ends and that could help him out if they feel really good about their depth. But you can't count on that. And so Tanks making the team, Tyrone's making the team. Uh, Taco's making the team, and you assume Randy's making the team. So Tapper's got some work. I mean, Coney Eely is a guy that maybe he could beat out, but he's Let's say Tappers stays healthy and does really well dream preseason. What do

you do? Then he's absolutely got. If he plays really well and is healthy in the preseason, you find a way to get You find a way to keep if he's if he's a good pass rush short because he's got this athletic ability. If he if he actually stays healthy and does well in the preseason, yeah, you find a way to you keep him, You cony, you move it inside until he comes back, and we'll figure this out. You know. I think they did it last year at

least for a little while. They only had three defensive tackles because they had ends who had flex You could do something like that. I don't love that, but you could. Yeah. I don't think there's ever been not around here and probably not around a lot of teams where they like, we're gonna cut this young pass rusher, you know, with ability, we just don't have to have, you know, room for him. But I know what you're saying is how much can

you count on? I mean, now you got guys. Can you rely on gregor we can you rely on um Tapper? I keep saying Russell like he's He's like Ryan Russell's be buffalo? Yeah, because again are speaking of reliability. He's like, Okay, who do you take the risk on? Over here? If it comes down to they're playing somewhat, you know, showing promising moves, who do you keep and and just risk it for what it's worth? I believe, I mean Tapper

should have practice squad eligibility. Yeah, he's played like two career games, but if he plays as well as you're suggesting in this scenario, you can't count on him clearing waivers. Yeah, and no doubt. But you know they say it every year and I know we talk about all this stuff, what's going to happen and move down the line, but this stuff has a way of working itself out. Um, you know, in practice, whether it be an injury or

a guy playing really well or not playing well or something. So, yeah, you know it's gonna two weeks from now, there's a week from now. You know it's gonna be a little different. Well, Derek who who won our fan favorite player? All right? So we ran two different polls. The first one was which defensive back fans are most interested in seeing most excited to see Jeff Heath the winner? There he gettin the vote I'm shocked to him or not? I'm actually not.

I think after that play he made in Oakland last year, I think fans started he won a lot of people. He did. Fans started to say, hey, let's be honest, there weren't a lot of guys in his secondary. They were making plays, not big plays, at a winning game. And I don't say I'm shocked to dog Jeff Heath. I say I'm shocked because you've got the young players who I mean, Xavier Woods could be the next Pro Bowl Cowboys safety or or Cheeto and Jordan have all

this potential. So the fact that they still went with Heath is impressive. Iron Jones was second with twenty nine, Cheeto with sixteen, Jordan with ten percent, and then Xavier Woods was the last with seven percent. And then we also ran a poll asking are you satisfied with Heath and Woods as you're starting safeties? As we could expect, it was that actually just dipped again. It was at eighty eight percent. Now it's at ninety four percent. Just went back up a little bit to seventy nine percent.

It's bouncing around a little bit, but it's that's just pretty clear that it's a no. That's just because of who people think they could have. Right, you're talking about a guy again, a guy that will be in the Hall of Fame at some point as a safety, and you have an opportunity to get him. Well, no matter, but how good the guy out here is, it doesn't matter. He's not that guy. And in ten words or less, just real quick, they just tell me how Xavier Woods

is playing out here? Uh, pretty good from what I can tell. Look, okay, and you're the one, and we're the ones that are telling these people what's happening, right, So they don't know anything when Xavier Woods is no different than that. They know he's six time Pro Bowl or whoever is over there. So meanwhile, natural Earls on Instagram, straight flexing, just posting post after post after post and liking Cowboys posts and all that. That would be awesome

dancing around. Let's go get hits on the site. You think that would be a big traffic day. All right, guys, that is all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in for Nikki Men Derek Eagleton, David Hellman, a member GARCIA. This was Cowboys Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club