Cowboys Break: Grading Dallas' Recent Drafts

episode number seven. Welcome to another edition of the Break Block from the s WBC Mortgage Studios at the Star and we appreciate you guys taken some time with us today to talk some Cowboys football. How's everybody doing this morning? Great? Great? Doing great? Awesome? Get a fun golf outing yesterday? I don't know if you guys after listening, we're able to check out from Okay, we had a lot more fun than than what it shows. Seriously, I've never seen understand

how that more miserable looking for people in my life. Well, Dave just said that he was almost asleep. You know, Dave kind of already has kind of the lean bad sort of my vibe. Any yeah, so it was it was natural for you. Yeah, But the rest of you guys if you watch, didn't want to be a podcast. I mean, you know, a lot of we had a good time, you know what. I still don't know, and I don't know it was in the glass. No, I know it was in the glass. I don't know if

it was on camera. When Nick was dancing with his drink. Did that get on camera? I think so? Okay. I kind of thought closer together was right behind you and he had his drink and he was kind of doing the broadest at Rob's wedding kind of dance. You know, I got my drink. It was that kind of thing. But I didn't know if it got on camera. I think it did. I didn't see that. Go back and check it out. I want to say it was. It was before I got on the air, so it was

like roughly about the twenty minute mark. I didn't realize that that camera was with the third camera. Obviously. It's all good. Yeah, it was a good day though. Cowboys went out there, played a little golf with some sponsors. We were able to talk to a few guys on the show. It's really nice lineup that we had there, with guys like Zach Martin, Dak Prescott coach Garrett came by Tyren Smith. When you planned something for three to four weeks like that, it results show. Yeah. Usually when

you plan it overnight, that's even better. That worked out. It worked out well, yeah, and we'll do a little bit more of that next year. But I wanted to hit a good including going on as well, because Jason Garrett did not want to be on there. That's the fifth time, and he said, all right, I'll do it anything for you Amber. Yeah, I'll think you had a good time, right, Probably not, but we're doing guys. Honest,

I think everybody had it. Like I think all the guys that came on the show seem to not be like they left with a good impression. I don't think Jason Garrett walked away like, man, you know what, I didn't want to do that, but that was pretty great. However, however, like he did bring food to us later in the afternoon, did on his own just walk through like, hey, guys, I got some food. You guys wanted food, And he came back a second time and said, hey, you sure

you don't want more? That was pretty nice of him, Very on Garrett. So he did enjoy the interview. He enjoyed the interview, wouldn't want to see me and they're still out at the golf course drinking and dancing. Yeah. True, we was working. I don't know, maybe I was looking looking back. It's probably what will happen. All right, let's

jump in. Let's talk actually today. What I want to do at the bulk of our time, UM is I want to I've had a couple of people hit me up on Twitter, uh to ask, you know, if we if we have some grades for the draft, um, And my my retort is always it's dumb to grade a draft after the draft. It's more apt to grade drafts years after it happens, because that's when you know whether the picks were actually good picks or not. So what we're gonna do today, UM is, we're gonna go back.

We're gonna go back to two thousand and fourteen. We're gonna have back to two thousand and fifteen, um, and maybe look a little bit at two thousand and sixteen, but I really want to focus on fourteen and fifteen. And we're gonna go across and talk about the different guys that were drafted, UM and give our own unders. I guess grade of what we think the cowboy always did in those drafts and doesn't have to be an ABC.

I'm just saying kind of gets an assessment. It's too early for sixteen or like you don't want to talk about it's a little bit early for sixteen. Arguably, I mean we could have that last in history. Well, well, we don't know that. That's the point. Like I think a lot of times you get to this point after a draft you're like that guy could be something, that guy could be, and then two years from that you're like, yeah, he didn't here anymore. Two thousand and eight too early.

The best draft? Yeah, in the first layer two thousand and eight was I mean, yeah, Felix, yah, Felix, rookie yere, Mike Jenkins is gonna be really good already be seriously man Scandrick in the fifth round. Great draft, and then yeah,

so fair. I think sixteen might be a little early to give it a grade just yet, because I think, yeah, it does look good and we it's promising, I guess, I would say, But I think the other two we really can kind of dive into and really assess how well they did into that Your first and fourth round pick, basically cutting the Rookie of the Year or award right down in the middle. Like, that's that's a good start,

very good start. Right. But before we get there, I thought there were a couple news items from yesterday that I wanted to hit real quick. Um. First thing is Terrell McClain. He is going to be in the building today if he's not already already here, um, and he's visiting with the team. He's potentially could come back. M was here for a few years, played pretty well when healthy, went to the Redskins for a year, and then the

Redskins cut him first. I guess, tell me, what do you think from the standpoint of what he can bring to this team if the Cowboys were to sign him, where does he fit and what does it give them that they may not have Right now? We get our Friday dance parties back. That's what I want the most. That's I mean, that's not have him last year, No, I mean Joe Looney tried a couple of times, but it wasn't the same. Terrell mcclin used to like break

it down every Friday. Better than Byron Bill, Yes, way better than Byron Yes better, Yes, Terrell mcclein better than Terrell McClean can break dance. I don't care about You're just biased because you're in that dumb fraternaty. Sorry that was marsh That was too Sorry, whoa whatever, whatever, you got one coming later. It's fine Terrell McClain. Honestly, it's it's a good point that you bring up because I remember the first two years he was on this team,

we were like, is this guy any good? Like he couldn't get on the field. Um, But twenty I mean, you know, a lot of stuff went in line in twenty sixteen, and uh, and he was one of them. I mean he was. He was great. He was He started, he played all sixteen games, he played the three he played the one. He was disruptive. I think he had four sacks. He was a big part of that D line, which and you know, the D line around here hasn't

been awesome over the last five six years. So he was a bright spot on a unit that hasn't been amazing in recent memory. Um, and and the like the dance thing is important because it was you know, team camaraderie. He was a big part of that special locker room that everybody talking well, really, what it is it shows what Mary Nelly likes about him the most, which is his feet. He always says he's like he calls him

the dancing barrel. I mean, he can do that kind of stuff until I guess to be a good dancer, you gotta have the feat. But from football standpoint, I think he uses it to his advantage. I think it's depth. Though I've never been a big fan of him. Honestly, I did never see why he's a well we make a big deal out of it, because I don't think he really has played that well when he when he was even was out there, it was like okay, but didn't didn't play that well to me. But I think

this is a David Irving move. This is like, hey, can we count on Irving? Can we count on him to play? Let's let's get a guy we know that, we like that Rod knows how to use him, and let's let's put out there. But I don't think this is a difference maker. If he if he comes in, does he not become kind of your does he become immediately your one technique starter? And do you make And that's why I kind of a three solidly a three technique. I'm not trying to sell anybody that he's gonna Yeah.

I mean Nick has a point that I mean, he's not in Dominican sue no. But um but I think he's better than that because I think he's a one technique who can be disruptive. I think Malie Collins had a great year because he got to play the three. And then I always thought it was a revisionist history last year when everybody was like, well, they like him at one, and I was like, no, they don't. They just don't have a better option at one, and that

and plus stuff, the price went down. Yeah, And so I think, you know, if he can start at the one and let Malik and David Irving both play three when they want to or need to, I love that. I think that would be great. Ye all right, Um, one other thing I wanted to hit real quick, Dave, you had a tweet last night I thought was really interesting.

Stephen yesterday had a quote and I don't have the quote on me, but it was a quote specific to Dak and what they expect from him this year, and he was talking a lot about and I actually, I'll let you kind of lay out kind of what he was saying and what you took from it. What did you hear from Steven yesterday on Dak and what they're expecting from him? Well, uh, Stephen kind of pulled a nick.

He implied some stuff a little bit there, which I mean, and that's you know, it's it's wrong to say that those you know, front office types and coaches never give you anything. Sometimes you just kind of have to read between the lines, which you know something. It was a question about, you know, how do you replace the leadership

of Dez and Witten? And then Steven kind of went off in a completely different direction about how the offense is going to look different, and basically, you know, he's like, well, you know, we're gonna let Dak play quarterback this year, and you know, Dak loves to go through his progressions and read the play and throw the ball to the guy who's open, as opposed to feeling pressure to get the ball in one specific place. Never said anybody's name,

but it was a name written all over. If you got probably two names written, maybe yeah, if you got a signapse in your brain, you should be able to connect the dots there that he's talking. I mean, he's certainly talking about Dez, and maybe to a degree he was even talking about Jason Witten. And I think you know, I've said it a million times. I hate the phrase Dak friendly. I just it's one of those stupid soundbites

that just nobody even knows what it means. They just throw it out there and it's fun to jabber about. But if you're DAK friendly, to me, means a guy who's just gonna get open and shut up and not complain about the production he gets. That's kind of that's what I look at. And they've lined it up that that's what they're poised to do right now, and getting rid of certain elements of the offense from play a role in that. And one thing that you mentioned right there,

and I think somebody was mentioned this to me on Twitter. Well, why couldn't he just tell those voices to be quiet? I don't even know if this is that Stephen was necessarily saying. This is pointing the finger at Dez for being vocal that he wasn't getting the ball. If the offense was really predicated on, Hey, we're gonna really focus on trying to get Dez the ball because we feel like he can win this matchup, rather than hey, we're

just gonna go through the progression. On each play, you follow the progression order, when you find the open guy, you get the ball out right. That could have been the case too. We don't know that, But I'm just saying it's not always just about saying. I don't think it's as simple as just saying, well, Dez was complaining. I think he could also be other things that the offense may have dictating in scenarios that he was trying

to get the ball. We know there were several games there an early in season when he was just trying to forcing you saw. And it's so useful having all or nothing to go back and look at, because there's even a clip in there where Lenahan's talking to Dad and he's like, remember, just because there's a guy on Dez doesn't necessarily mean he's cover. I mean just little stuff like that. Well, I mean, Dez is the only guy that's really gonna make a play on the ball.

I mean, if nobody's open, Cole's not open, he's not making a play on the ball. Terrence isn't making a play, Whitten's not really going to go make a play on the ball. So I mean, who else are you going to throw it too? If you have to get the ball out? I mean, Dez is the one guy that's gonna win a jump ball one on one battle. And he didn't do it all the time, but he does. I mean, so this is the other guys that have got to get open as well and help him. And

we talk about Dak friendly or whatever. A guy that can go make a play for you is would be friendly for any quarterback, and so he's gonna have somebody needs to do that more. Bet. This is my perspective as far as Dez. He's such a vocal guy and so passionate that he's one of those guys that sometimes you just cater to him just to like, okay, here you go here, you fine take it, but kind of

like calm down a little bit. There are people like that, like you just go over the flow to let him do his thing just because you want them to calm down. So I and talking back about all or nothing. You kind of get a sense of that too watching what it's inside. Even with Dooley, the way the interactions, it was very weird, Like Dooley wasn't the one in power type of thing. It's like Das kind of went over him and it's like, okay, well here comes this. Let's okay,

let's do whatever death says type of thing. So it'll be a good thing for Dak definitely in the game and concentration and focus and figure out exactly what he needs to do with that that kind of pressure. There's only gonna be one player on this offense that you know, you know, you go to halftime and you look at the stats and you're like, like, why it isn't this guy more involved. There's only one guy on this team that fits that description out and it's Zeke uh And

And in the passing game, there's nobody. Nobody here has the skins on the wall to command that type of respect or attention Witton or does I mean shut up Alan Hearns, Like who's I mean? I mean not really, you know, Alan Heurns is actually a really nice guy, But like Alan Hearns isn't just dictating what the game plan is. Neither neither is Cole Beasley, neither's Michael Gallop,

neither's Dalton Schultz or Rico Gathering. I mean, it's so like I said, I think a Dak friendly receiverco or well you according to everybody else, h they're just I mean a Dack friendly receiver as a guy who's going to take what's given to them and not worry about it. That's which is what they want at this point. It sounds like what they're looking for is and this day it might be Terrence's day. You're gonna you're gonna catch

the bulk of the balls on this day. It's gonna be Cole On this day, it's gonna be gallop this offense, right, exactly, That's exactly right. One of the quick questions before we move on to our draft analysis, Um, you guys at all surprised that Dez is still out there and not on a team and that there isn't more interest for a guy that I'll say for myself, I truly expected within a couple of weeks of him being released, somebody was going to jump on that and say we got

the quarterback that can take advantage of his skill set. Yeah. I thought somebody would sign him by now. So I don't know the deal what's going on. I know that the Ravens were interested, it didn't sound like that's what he wanted if from a contract standpoint, didn't want a two year deal, that's just what the story said. I don't I don't know, but yeah, I'm surprised. I thought he'd maybe be on a team by now. Yeah, I'm

not going to pitch it like I'm smarter than everybody. If, like the day he was cut, I would have guessed that he would be signed by now for sure. But if you think about it, I mean, what did the Cowboys just say yesterday? They're like, well, we like our tight ends and we like our safeties. We're not ready for all that. And also keep in mind that up until recently, I think, like yesterday, you couldn't sign free

agents without it affecting your compics strategy. So that thing, combined with the fact that you know, you just had your draft, everybody's high on you know, they're like, we like our guy, Like we got our guy Michael Gallup in the third round. He was a second round about like that type of thing. So you know, teams kind of have rose colored glasses at this time of year.

But let OTAs start, let somebody get hurt or what I mean, He'll be on a team by the time training camp roll you think before training camp, because I'm starting to think at this point maybe it's one of those things where teams wait till they get to camp, and as soon as they have that first major injury,

then his phone starts ringing, but not far. I'm wondering, like, I think Day's right, Like after you get past that first first couple of weeks of him being a free agent, then I think teams kind of look at it like, well, nobody's really beating down his door, so we don't have to make a decision right now. So I think it's gonna be It's gonna have to be something that spurs them to do it. I don't think they just do it to do it. And what may spur them to

do it is you get that injury. Maybe it happens in OTAs or mini camps, maybe doesn't happen until training camp. Injuries, arrests and and just the I mean, you go through twelve offseason practices and you're like, he's not like, you know, these guys aren't as good as we thought they were. So how many teams do you think he'll be on the radar? I mean, do you think there's thirty one teams or thirty two. No, I think there's I think there's honestly about four teams he's on their I really don't.

I don't He's not coming back here. I don't think so either, But I think there's probably four teams where he's probably on their radar, honestly. Now, of course, what could change it once again, you get some injuries to key receivers, and now he becomes you know, let's say a team like Atlanta that would never be in the market right now with what they got, Let's say Julio

goes down, maybe they consider that, you know. So, I think right now, as it stands, I don't think there's a lot of people who have him on the radar, But I do think that that likely will change once you get the training camp. And at this point it's probably a smart idea for Desk to wait because his options will open up more the more they have Teams have a chance to evaluate their players, see if anybody gets hurt, that kind of stuff, and then he goes

in saves the day. You know, Yeah, it happens every summer. Like I wouldn't guessed he'd be on a team by now, but I bet he'll be on a team before four teams go to training camp. Ye wait too long? Yeah, I mean he needs to get in there and learn the offense, workout all those things matter, only the workout stuff, But I mean get in there. I mean, this has been the same offense for seven or eight years now, and he had issues sometimes with moving around to different places.

So he needs to learn the offense. Ye. All right, So let's take our first break. When we come back, we're going to dive into draft recap and we're gonna talk about first two fourteen names like Zach Martin, DeMarcus Lawrence, Anthony Hitchins and the whole host of the two and fourteen picks and tell you what we think of that draft. We'll do that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. It can be hard to find the right resource for learning about important financial matters.

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limitations apply, so you love for details. Back to the Break, Welcome back. It's the second segment of The Break, live from the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star. We're gonna talk a little bit of draft. I want to go back a couple of years and we're gonna give draft grades at the time. The draft grades really should be given a few years after we've had a chance to

see these guys play. I want to start with twenty fourteen, and I think the best way to handle this is I'm going to go through the list and I want you to tell me each of you to tell me if the player was above, at or below stand expectations. So, based upon the expectations of where they were drafted, what you thought of where they were drafted, did they exceed that, were they right where they should have been, or were

they below that? All right, before we get started, I'll let you guys handle this because fourteen you were still I don't know what their expectations were back then. I know, I mean the players they are now. But to be honest, this was my first draft that I was fully involved and not knowledgeable of all the players. So you'll sit

back with me and I'll say this. You can't have a complete cop out here because you know what expectations are of a first round pick, a second round pick, a seventh round pick, and so you know now you know that they were actually has a great Yeah, that's a really good point. I can just give you the number of the round and you can let's go, okay, all right, here we go, first round, Zack Martin above at or below expectations? What's above above? Can you go?

Three above? One of the best picks of all time, one of the best picks in Cowboys history, especially give reasons the alternative exactly. That's it, tell me the alternative. It was Johnny Manziel and it was the owner who wanted him, and he really wanted Johnny Manziel and he had to be talked out of It was one of the turning points I think of Steven Jones really taking over a little bit more of this, not not completely, but just having a little bit more, say more control Jerry.

And you gotta give Jerry credit too. It's hard for somebody like his age to say I'm gonna step back and do things differently. He would have picked him ten years ago. He wanted him that bad, just they wanted Jack Martin and to pick flashy quarterback and a guard who doesn't like to talk totally different was one of

the best picks of all time. He's one of those players that, I mean, he has everything you would want in a player as far as how he plays, work ethic, the way he behaves off the field, doesn't really have issues, just a great guy on and off the field. I tried to ask him yesterday about his new contract and just threw it out kind yeah, I mean, I'm you know, it was kind of weird. Shedding the impliyer ye strikes

back mentality. Let's say, let's let's get after it. Yeah, all right, second pick that year, that number thirty four is defensive end Marcus Lawrence above at or below above. But also you have to consider that you don't have a third round pick from that draft because of him too, so it's even more pricey for a second and third essentially is it above this this past season? Really? I mean you could debate about this if he hadn't just

posted fourteen and a half sacks. I mean, you know, although I will say one you playoff game, one you one of two playoff games in recent memory. Um, he had a very solid season in twenty fifteen that kind of gets forgotten about because people Randy Gregory and Greg Hardy just kind of torpedoed that pass rush Um played through injury like they all, I mean above, And he's

a good locker room guy, good character guy. UM pro bowler last year kind of I mean, like I said, he's been trending even higher later in his career and you'd prefer to not have to put the tag on him, but definitely well worth that move to get him, for sure. What run did you say? Second? High second? Second pick of number thirty four, the first rounder. Give me another year to make my whole analysis. No, I was just gonna say, it's just reliability type of thing, you know, Um,

can you fully rely on him? We're starting to find out. And last year obviously was awesome and amazing. He's an amazing player. But is he long term reliable? I don't know yet. Yes, we don't know if he's got a long term future here either. For that matter, in twenty sixteen he was that is that the year? Suspend it for the four year? Did he miss other games due to injury that year? No? And that's thirteen. No, I know that I'm saying now here though, I guess what

I'm trying to see? His thirteen high missed like eight. He came back in November, okay, miss he played seven games? Yeah, yes, I guess My point is I'm trying to figure out the string. So if you're talking about reliability, it's now been it's now been a year a season plus, which is twelve games that he's been reliable, reliable, reliably there and those four games at beginning season were not about injury.

That was to me kind of an adbiration. That's why you know, those guys go so far out of there and I'm all credit due to him, but they make sure to praise him, like he could have gone on I R in sixteen or at the very least sat out, and he didn't, and his numbers were down because of it. But he was there to be to play and start and be a part of that team. Sorry, I think

he's at the expectation. I think he is because if you would he they move up to trade him, and that night that they're excited about getting this second round pick at high second round and they lost their third and to say, hey, in four years, he's going to average less than six sacks a year. He's at twenty three and a half. That he hasn't. I mean, he's not sitting there even at six a year. I think that, Yeah,

that's a monster year and there's reasons for it. But I think that he's he's at expectations pretty end of the season. Ranked was it in sacks? Was a third at the end of this season? Yeah? Yeah, you know, any second Campbell beat him out. Yeah, I think as he was second, it was him, Chandler Jones and Campbell. If you would have said the night of that draft. Hey, this guy in four or five years whatever it is, five years, Yeah, he's going to lead. He's gonna be

second in the league in sacks. I would argue that that's probably a little bit above what you would expect from a second round pass rusher. Would you guys agree with that? But again, thirty thirty, you're talking thirty four or not fifty, and that's a different We also know we all sat pick seventy whatever. We also know in most drafts first round grades in the round nineteen eighteen, seventeen. But he was as great as he as they thought he would be before that that year, this last year,

they wouldn't have needed to draft Taco. They wouldn't need more depth there. So you're saying, if you take the body of the body of not just that one year, if you take the body, and I think I'm glad that we're going this way as opposed to a great rookie year that's gone down. So, I mean, I'm not we're not hating on him. I just think this is it's at at is probably fair at maybe a little

bit above, especially because of the strength. I mean, how good last season was, I mean it was phenomenal highest sack total since Steaware was on the team. So okay uh. Next one's fourth round pick at one nineteen was lineback at a linebacker Anthony Hitchins above a way above fourth round pick. Fourth round pick criticized that nobody, nobody liked that pick when it was made, And I mean even you know, me and Brian like who covered that? You're like,

we were like, I guess I know who this guy is. Whatever. H Kelvin Smith was still on the board. Which Telvin Smith has had a better career than Anthony Hichins. That's another conversation. Pick one nineteen to be a four year starter, never miss due to injury until his final year, jumped right in as a rookie, played all three spots. I mean, I don't know what else you want from a fourth round pick. Now, I will say this, and I was

talking to Brian about this yesterday. He said, in the scouting world, typically if you have a draft, when you get three players and what I mean or three guys that are contributed contributing to your team in a significant way offense or defense in that in their first contract, then you feel like that's a hit, that's really funny that you say that, because look at the rest of this draft. Yes, that's why I brought it up, because I want to make sure we put this in context.

Now when you start talking about the grade of the draft, you're gonna have, missus. It's a part of having fit six seventh round picks is that most of them are not going to make it. The statistics across the league say most of them are not gonna make it. It's a bonus when you find one that does. You've got five Pro Bowls in your first three picks in four years. Yes, right, So that's if Zach was the only guy from this draft that was still on the team, it would still

be an a in mind of how good he is. Yeah, yeah, he's the best Garden football um. And but but he's not because you have your best pass rusher too, So I mean, and then you know, Hitchin's obviously moved on. But again, like that's what the draft is, and you got years of good production. Like you're not gonna keep every player, but if you can get good production from them during the time that they're under contract, that's still win. Yeah, right,

Devin Street Men Street Ben Gardner never made the team. Oh, sorry, I know, and I think it's right. The Devin Street, Ben Gardner, Will Smith the linebacker team, modd Dixon defensive back. kN Bishop was a defensive tame who played a little bit Kim Bishop, right, he was a bit player for like a year. Yeah, and then you got Terrence Mitchell the defensive back. Good great pick for the Kansas City Chiefs. Right,

turned into a pretty decent kN Bishop layer. I forgot about bebop and rock Steady Hey when he Hey, you know who he is. He's a guy that rock that. This is how we do. When we did the media day and Mindsel Jordan came out, are we allowed to say that? Yeah? Anyways, Uh, we just couldn't we use the music. Kid Bishop was rocketed. Yeah, one day we may actually show you guys at videos. We have better videos we've ever been. We just never could release it.

Oh well, it was disappointing that Devin Street didn't do more. I think he finished with one touchdown um. But then I mean you're talking about seventh round picks um, and he didn't do anything anywhere else either. That's always a good nat I shouldn't say good, but that's that's something that letting Terrence Williams go or Terrence Mitchell go and have him become a decent starter for another team. Right, and then you're like, yeah, maybe we screwed that one up.

Maybe we just didn't do the right I'm made Dixon made the team and got cut the next day. Ken Bishop kicked around for like at least a year. Man, I just remember that night they he went Terrence Williams. The story is that they went to Waco, that they made the team on Saturday. Yeah, because Baylor was opening its season like that night or when Taylor played a game. He went down. They were Terrence and they were like we gotta get back eight am Sunday morning. You gotta

get back. And Terrence got back and the mod was like, I'll get a ride there and he didn't. And that was the last straw. And that was his rookie year. And so he was that your rookie year as a seventh round pick who made the team. And he he just sleep. He was just a head hunter. He would have lost so much money though, because he was gonna get fined. He didn't know how to play any other way. Yeah, all right, let's move on. Let's talk about twenty fifteen.

So I guess, just to wrap that one up, if you look at the two thousand and fifteen draft, let's do it just for the heck of it. Let's give

it a grade. Let's go around the table, lamber ay A, okay, A plus, okay A. Because you've got your one of your your top two defensive players on the team, and you're I don't know, it's hard to say Zach marge one of your top offensive players, but he's the most consistent if you look at if you was that hard to say, No, Well, yeah, you've got You've got Tying, and you've got and you've got Zeke and all this stuff right now in terms of production, availability, Yeah, everything.

I mean, I think he's he's probably the best player on this team. Yeah, I mean, we had that argument. We had that argument about Zeke and Tyring last year. It's been an All Pro every year, first or second team All Pro, not Pro Bowl All Pro. Yeah, that's that's huge, Like that's and then then to have one of the top pass rushers in the league, that's great. Now Hitchens is on another team, but but you got the use of production very great. That was a good draft. Okay, good,

let's move on fifteen. Um. Let's start first the first round pick Byron Jones at above or below expectations. Hello, Hello, Hello, but not as drastically below as the hive mind wants you to think like. It's. I mean, it's been a disappointing run for him to this point. He's got two picks, he's had to move positions, but he's been available, he's played,

he's made contributions. Again, you're talking about d Law is a second round Go well, this dude was only picked five spots or six spots in front of d Law, So I just I'm not letting him off the hook. He's below what you would expect from the twenty seventh overall pick, but he is not this like Mo Claiborne style horrifically no good, terrible bust in my opinion. And that's because of placement, right, more so because play well. Placement is well, you have to go up and get

him at sitting. Not only that, but he's never missed a game. He's great at covering tight ends. He can play, he's played in the slot, he's played dime, he's played safety, he's played corner like he can He's done a lot of different stuff for you, so have a hard time just saying he's terrible. He's clear. I mean, he hasn't been benched. He's played every game of his career. He's again like a good locker room dude. He's never given

you cause for concern off the field. Well, I have a column idea that I was I've been thinking of. I don't know if I want to throw it out here, but yeah, let's go and write it right here on the air. I'm basically comparing him, possibly comparing him to flows Ll Adams. Here's why Flozell Adams played four years. He was a thirty seventh overall pick, not far from where this is where Byron was picked. Mood positions a little bit was guard, and he knew he was gonna

be a tackle, moved him to guard. It was not very good. After four years, it was like, okay, Parcel shows up two thousand and three, says, what's your top priority. He's like, well, my top priority is the sign flows Ll Adams and everyone was like, what he's like his premiere left tackle. You can't that. They don't grow on trees. You can find him like wow, Okay, and he was really and he was right obviously. After that kind of gave them the confidence. Flows out went five Pro Bowls

of the next six years. The only year he didn't because he got hurt. I mean, he was a premiere left tackle, one of the best enfranchise history. And I wonder if Christopher Shard came in and said, oh, okay, well let's let's let you know, Byron go why didn't you write this go up right now, get off and say, dear option And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, we need this guy. That's the kind of corner. I like, how many small corners did you see from Seattle? Not really,

you saw big bulky corners, long arms. He's like moving the corner. This is a guy, and maybe this is we'll see you know. But I mean, Christoph Shardon knows what he's doing. He looked at him and I've seen it before, right, guy everybody was kind of down on could totally change things around. So I'm wondering about that. That's really that's great. It's a great point. And now, um, Byron is one of the smartest dudes on this team. Uh,

he's a good guy. He's he's the most absurdly athletic person I've ever met, Like his career is gonna last as long as he wants it to, Like he could be playing up to toward forty like Terrence Newman as far as I'm concerned. So I have a hard time in closing the book on his viability heading into year four. Yeah, I'm very excited. That's one of the guys. I'm very excited to watch a training camp this year because I want to see if given be careful though, because he

was lights out at training camp last year. I mean, it was amazing. The only thing, the only thing I want to see though, is I want to see how he adapts to playing. If them saying you are going to be a cornerback, how does he adapt to that? And I want to see how does that affect those other younger guys, Like are they how do they work? Are they going to try to work them all in? Or is it going to be Byron's gonna solidify one of these spots, which means one of those other two

guys will not be starting. Maybe one gets pushed back to safety. Who knows all I'm saying is I think that's going to be one of the more intriguing things to follow this year at training campus, how Byron adjust and how that affects all the other younger guys that are on this roster at cornerback. You know, that's something I don't get, Like, how do you get to play?

You're doing super good at training camp and then it just kind of disappears throughout the season without the presence of an injury, you know, affecting the way he plays because because he goes up and he shuts down Alan hearns and everyone thinks of this is really great, and all of a sudden, Larry FitzGeralds on the other side, and it's like, wait a second, like a little different we don't have. That's one way that happens. We've all been burned by Mold Claiborne. You're right, Mo Claiborne a

couple years ago. It's no different than if you're if you play somebody the same, the same person every day, no matter how good they are, you're gonna get good enough to cover them. Right. So it's like the vision playing why the teams in the division plays so well exactly Like if I'm playing my brother when I was a kid, my brother might be able to kick everybody

in the neighborhoods. But whatever. But if I'm playing him every day, even though he's older, I'm gonna get better at playing him because i know what he likes to do and I'm gonna be able to stop that. So God can look really good in training camp and then he gets the other teams and had Olympics. I believe that we went all in sounds exhausting, all in, Dave, that's not your thing. No, You're like, I'm so out

on that. No, all right, um, let's move on. Let's talk about the second round pick at number sixty, Randy Gregory. Obviously Bello. I mean this a who's the next one? Nobody nobody loves, Nobody loves Will McClay more than I do. I think he's one of the best things that's happened to this franchise. But I mean this, spoiler alert, this is not a great draft. It's just not because following Randy Gregory ran third round, Jazz one is Jazz Green. So you got I mean Randy Gregory, who has played

in like nine career games with one sack. Chaz Green, who I believe the line of logic on him when he was picked, was that he would be the air apparent to Doug Free. Uh. He missed his rookie year with an injury. He played in two games in twenty sixteen, and then last year we know what happened. He's the only U you know, the quarterbacks have records. He's got, He's oz and one. He has an L on his name. Well, to here's the fans, it wasn't because of the way

he played. What I'm talking about Randy Gregory. Oh I was talking about Oh, I thought he went back to Randy Oh. I mean we can go back to want to sorry, but they talked, well, I'll talk crap about Randy Gregory all the time. I mean, not really crap, but because of you know, the excitement people have bringing him by him. But again to his defense, what I was saying, it wasn't necessarily an issue of him being a bad player on the field. No, who wrote the

story astray you? Yeah, well, let's talk about it. But that's but he didn't fall in the draft because he was a bad player, right yeah, well yeah, I mean his name came up in the press conference. There's not really it's I mean, Gregory's gaining steam in his attempt to apply for reinstatement. I know, you know a lot of people in and around the organization are going to bat for him, Tyrone Crawford, Shaun Lee Um. He has not applied yet, and bait. I mean, the Cowboys did

not offer a lot of clarity about that process. It sounds like Stephen Jones said, we're just bystanders until further notice. M So that's between Randy and the league and I don't really know a whole lot other than that. I I mean, it sounds like he's got a good shot at it. Whenever it actually happens, well, you know, we'll see if he's at training camp. That's pretty much. But I mean I made my thoughts on it pretty clear yesterday. I mean, if he can get back, you don't have

a whole lot to lose by giving him a chance. So, but you'd be making an awfully big mistake if you're like counting on it as a key to your success, right. I would have said zero percent chance, but you know it's still kind of small percent chance. But I like what we saw out of Cleveland. Josh Gordon was able to do it. He was able to play. I never thought that would happen, and he played pretty well. He's

a freak. But you know what, so Randy Gregory can be kind of considered that too, wasn't he wasn't he better before that than Randy. Yes, Josh Gordon led the league, And that's my point. Like so, I think it, and I think yesterday that was the point of the question that I ask you guys when I say it, are there And I know Rob came back and said, Dwight Freeney,

but yeah, Blake Freeney's going to Hall of Fame. Like, I don't think we've seen yet Randy Gregory before that, he hadn't developed yet to where you even say he's a good player now. Like so now him coming back after being out, that's the part where I just have very low expectations of what that's fine. Throw him in on that mix of preseason games he was he was destroying second and third team tackles, getting all these sacks, and then didn't get one the rest of the season.

So he did get hurt in the season opener, Okay, but I'm just I mean, okay, other ten games, I feel like, well, he didn't he missed like the month and a half half. He actually he did well with some pressures. He wasn't bad guys. Guys like the guys that big who can bend like that don't grow on trees. That's all I know. And that's why he's gonna get another shot at this if they I mean, that's and should like, I don't think anybody's saying that he needs

to put on weight. I'm just gonna keep the joke there. I mean, he does, he needs to put on some weight. Well, I haven't seen the guy since December of twenty six just as a player. He needed to add yeah, yeah, frame, And there's probably a reason why he couldn't. I don't know.

It's I don't Jerry Jerry Jones had a great quote about it a month or two ago where he was like, you know, he needs to do this, this and this and get better as a player in YadA, YadA, YadA, And he was like, but he's a hell of a football player, and like that's where this whole conversation goes back to. So anyway, all right, let's take our final break, we'll come back, we'll finish up the twenty fifteen draft.

We'll also take some questions from you guys, if you've got to hit us up, hit us on Twitter at Cowboys Break will take questions during that final SEGM. We'll be right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com. Radio. Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your skincare should be no different.

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than a fan. You are a member of Cowboys Nation, and so is at and T doing their part to keep you connected to America's team all season. Law at and T is a proud member of Cowboys Nation. Back to the Break, Welcome back to the final segment of The Break, live from the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star. Dave. I'm sorry, Nick, I wasn't ready for that talk about some underwear, all right. You know when we go on the road for road trips, they give us our hotel.

Even they have different messages, sometimes that cowboy themed one and sometimes they say like win or focus or squeeze the rock, which could be in something else, but that protect the Ball is one that we get and nobody really does that better in underwear than Tommy John. Tommy John is the official ball carrier of the Dallas Cowboys. Come to underwear, so to me depends on who you

are Tommy John, No adjustments needed. Shot Exclusive Cowboys Underwear Tommy John dot com Forward slash Cowboys twenty percent off your first order Tommy John dot com Forward slash Cowboys Protect the Ball. I like that. I don't think I ever got that on one of my room keys though. Did you pick the ball? Just whatever those messages are, we get all the time. I fight I just like it when it says be relentless, good night's sleep or whatever. No, the ball doesn't really mean much for you. I'm not

I'm not playing. Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, let's jump back into this. Tommy John is and Tommy John always protects the ball. We got it, Nick, Thanks appreciate good twelve And it was twelve that was that was up there. That was like a nine. Tell me to nine point three? All right, all right, nine point three. We really have to start doing that. We should. If you want it, twelve, hand it over here. Hey, they did come out with some female underwear. They did. Apparently haven't received any, but

I want to know what all the fuss is about. Well, we'll just wait because if that's the case, somebody on this team, we'll figure out a way to get some to everybody. So I would imagine we're on it. We'll make a phone call, see what we can do. How about that? All right? All right, let's jump back and let's talk about two thousand and fifteen. Uh, the twenty and fifteen draft we've talked about Byron Jones, Randy Gregory, and Chaz Green, all three you guys said performed below expectations.

Let's move to the fourth round pick at one twenty seven. The Cowboys select Damien Wilson above below or at expectations? This is an interesting one. Is he below because he really hasn't been that good? Or is he below because he was drafted in the same spot a year later from the same conference, at the same position as Anthony Hitchins, who was above. We all agreed vastly exceeded his expectations.

I don't know. I mean, he's okay, he's been. He's been a spot starter and a contributor all four years he played, or all three years to this point. He's big on special teams. Like I said, he's started at SAM He's played pretty well there at times, He's filled in in a couple other spots. Never been good enough to earn more of a role. And by this point in his career, if he was going to he I feel like he would have made that leap. The thing with the arrest last summer kind of not great. So

I just I've said this a while ago. Nothing has changed. I mean, those to the top three moments or that you think of anything relating to Damian Wilson are all negative. You know, he had the paintball incident before he had parking lot incident, which was a lot more than that, gave up a game winning touchdown and you know to running back out of the backfield of the Saints. I mean, he hasn't had when the difference making things have not

been a good thing for him. So no, that's I was laying all that out there for the sake of playing Devil's advocate. It's still probably fair to say below, but it's like a little bit more production. When he was drafted, I think the expectation was, at the very least if and when Hitchens was no longer here, he would step right in instead. The Cowboys been a first round pick on Layton vander Esh to me around the

year before. Yeah, to me, those are the things that suggests to me that the Cowboys see him as not living up to what they're there. Their greatest expectation for him would have been. Now, of course, fourth round picks or fourth round picks, some of them pan out, some of them don't. But I think that coming off of Hitchens, it makes it even more apparent that he just wasn't

that guy. It's more of a contrast, but I mean, you need you need players that are gonna like you know, he's knew Kyle Wilburg as far as I'm concerned, Like, he can start if you need him too, he can play, he can do stuff on special teams. Um, and that doesn't make him a bad pick because he's still on the team and contributing. He's just not He's not Anthony Hinchins.

That's so at that point, do you think it's at do you think do you think a fair assessment for him is that he's at expectation for a fourth round pick. I think he's below expectations. They draft like you said that, they drafted Vanderesh, they signed Joe Thomas in the offseason. He's been more productive than then. Um, I mean they went back to get Durant Wilson, they went, They've gone. You're right, you're not gonna put you don't want to

put super high expectations on your fourth round pick. But that's still a guy that you're hoping can develop into a starter. Okay, i'd say below, you're trying to find somebody that's not below. It's it's kind of tough. These next three will lump him together. Defensive end Ryan Russell, linebacker, Mark Zacha, offensive tackle Lawrence Gibson. I take a little bit of offense to that, okay, because Lawrence Gibson never played a game for this team, and Ryan Russell was

cut like one week into his rookie season. I think, wasn't he was it that quick? So now he's in the practice squad for his rookie year that he played, he played one career game here, That's all I know. And he's but that's below expectations, right, Well, No, the reason I take exception is because Mark me Zacha was better than that as a as a seventh round as a seventh round pick who was a red shirt because he had torn his ACL and was basically a wash

for his rookie year. He came back, was on the team in sixteen, played a role on special teams, made the team, um made some plays, and they brought him back again until they eventually cut him the year after that. I mean, that's so for him, you think it was above expectations round pick. I call that above expectations considering Lawrence Gibson did not even make the team. I mean, seventh round picks don't make the team all and really

that's at expectations. Seventh round pick is a flyer. You're just bringing a guy and you gone, especially a hurt player. I put Mark above, and they tried to put him on their practice squad this year and he was poached, so it's not even like they wanted to get rid of him. Yeah. So so Ryan Russell, where do you

put him below or at expectations below below? Yeah, that's a fifth round pick that that was a guy that they liked, probably at a Dallas day, and you know it probably was never as good as should have been taken that high. Okay, and now the highlight of this draft Jeff Swain that when the best pick of your draft is the last one, that's not great. And he hasn't really been good. He's been good enough to I know, but I think he has not been good and you

don't have to raise that high. He hasn't been that good. He was picked two thirty then, okay, that sounds good, but he's not a difference maker. He had, but a seventh pick is not typically going to be a different I'm going to give him the arrow up expectations. Yes, I thought he was drafted because he was a friend of Stephen Jones's daughter or whatever. I thought that was the connection or whatever. He was drafted because he played a stellar school. You didn't even know who he was,

and he did not know he was. But that's beside Brugler didn't know who he was, right, I mean, but Texas didn't use him. They didn't use him at all. He has he been better than he thought? Yes, because I didn't think he'd even make the team. But has he been good? Nobody's played a role. He's played a role. And that's the thing. I'm the seventh rounder that can play a role. To me, that tighten is going to be allowed to be good with With Whitten him back,

I didn't call him back. Hadn't been good, that's not bad, not bad. What he hasn't been good, it's not bad. That means he was picked two thirty something. He made the team on a team where the tight end never comes off the field. I remember vividly he converted a fourth down in Washington when this team was oo and one in twenty sixteen. Right, He's a big part of Deck's play action and waggle stuff in twenty sixteen until he got hurt, until he got second You can't have

big part of it. If he can't, can you pull up his staff, pull up his damn stats. He was he was a part of it. Was he was a part like he had a part to play. There's a different mass haters right now. There's a big difference of Wait, why why does it have to be one or the other? I mean, why does that have to be black or white here? Why if he's not good, does it mean he's bad? No? Okay, on a team, it's great, he's been. He's been on a team where Jason Witten plays ninety

seven percent of the snaps. He started six games and caught six passes for seventy yards in in in nine weeks. What's that? Did you say he was targeted to say times and caught six? Now he was his target. He was targeted eight times and caught six passes for seventy yards nine six starts, nine games, got hurt in Pittsburgh and couldn't finish the season. So it gets start. I mean, I'm not hating on the guys. End. Yeah, I think on this team with who you had a t say

it was bad either. Remember I'm not saying it's bad. I don't know This goes bad, drawing little arrows up and down Wilson's name and Jeoff Swain. For me, I would just drove a flat arrow, like a flat horizontal line. This goes bad. It's not his fault. It's like okay, like okay, okay, he no, he what's an arrow? For me? He gets an arrow. I didn't think he'd make the team. I didn't think he'd be here in three years he has. He gets an arrow. But I'm just saying, let's just

call it what it is. It hasn't been good yet. It might be he's gonna get a chance now Again again, I'm saying it's bad. Guy the seventh round pick drafted before him never meant. He didn't get a jersey? Was rush good last year? Was he good? Yeah? He was good in the season and the games and all. That's not good. How many backup quarterbacks get to play in a game because when it's not because of an injury. This is an argument we've had like a dozen times

on this show. Nick doesn't great on a curve and I do Nick. Nick is just like are you good or are you're not good? And I'm like you were picked ten spots away from the end of the draft and you're still here contributing four years later. What's the test is? The test is get in the league. Go I come from Central Michigan and get in the league and make the team. If that's the test, he gets an A plus. If the test is now, we've got a different test. The test is how you play on

the field. He gets an incomplete because he didn't get to play. That's not his fault. The test is where were you take? Like, where did they find you and what did you do? That's like Tony Romo gets a better grade than quarterbacks that are taken one overall in my opinion, again because of where it all, how it started. He didn't. Over his course of his career, he didn't. He didn't get it. But when when you're evaluating it in terms of a draft, I'm not saying Tory Romo

had a better career than Troy Aikman. Don't get me wrong. I'm saying, Okay, I think we're all saying the same thing. I think would have thought that Swain was Sparks touch up, who swam slander. That's pretty much. Oh, I'm sure I'm gonna get the you know, I'm gonna get the Jeff Swain's parents or whatever. But what I'm saying is is that at this point it hasn't been good, it hasn't really been productive, but he's made the team and he's now he's got a chance to really be good because

he's got an option. But that's all I'm saying. I do I think, I do think I agree with Dave from standpoint. I think it's above expectations because I didn't expect him to be able to come in. And I do think he has a role on this team. Now that doesn't mean that he plays Jason's role. He didn't play Jason Witten's role, but he's played his role, and I think his role has been you're gonna be that second tight end, You're gonna block some gonna go out and catch a few passes like that's been his role.

And again, done it decent? Okay. But if if you're if your child comes at home and you, for whatever the reason, you expected them to really fail the test. You expect them to fail that because they didn't study or this is not their subject or whatever it is, and they got a sixty seven or whatever, that's not good. But that's better than you thought it was. It's still not good. We're gonna get too good. We're gonna keep working to get too good. But this isn't the opposite.

But don't you expect that everyone you draft why to be to do their role? Don't you expect it? Because obviously, I mean, that should be the expectation if you're drafting someone, anyone, that should be your expectation that they are able to do. Let's let's compromise. Let's compromise and acknowledge that these are two different conversations. They really are in this frame of

like what are you doing for the Cowboys? That's completely different than looking at the twenty fifteen draft class again like ninety percent of seventh round picks never make the team right, And again you go back to you don't have a role. You go back to that, you go back to the drafty. I married the two. What I said was, it's just to put them a kapper on how bad that was your Your best draft pick of that of that group is Jeff Swing. That is your

best draft pick. I think Byron Byron is still better, but Byron is playing more. But I think but I think the how is a better pick is he's getting the arrow to say the things that Byron has done. He hasn't been great at safety, but as Dave was saying earlier, he's shown us something when it comes to covering tight ends. He's done something well. Who has exceeded expectations the most Jeff swam So the guy that's exceeded the expectations the most is still not somebody that's contributing

hasn't contributed much at all. That just goes to show how bad the draft was. That's all I'm trying to say. It was he's going to be better, He's going to get the chance that he's not good, he hasn't been good. Six catches for seven yards good, there's nothing to move on to. We're done. I thought they did some good things, but did they do bad things? It was this is an atrocious draft. I mean, it's just it's not good.

But I like Jeff swiam too. Like the other day when you were up your mind, if I told you I think I think Jarwin's gonna start if I, oh yeah, I wouldn't surprised you. I wouldn't be surprised if any one of those guys. I really wouldn't. If I told you Connor Williams was the pick at nineteen two weeks ago,

how did you feel about it? Pretty good? If I tell you Connor Williams is the pick at fifty, how do you feel about There we go and when you're talking about a guy two thirty, I get still doing stuff? What third? Right? What if I told you Connor Williams was the pick at fifty, but you could have had Earl Thomas? Still okay with that? Yeah? I am too,

actually yeah with that, with that scenario. Yeah, but that scenario now, and if you would have gotten the safety that that was maybe on the on the board, and you tell me I could have gotten Earl Thomas or the safety didn't not take Earl Thomas? Right? Yeah, that Conor Williams. That was a Justin Reid. Yeah, oh crap. I want to say, third round Houston? He went to Houston? Um like end of the second beginning? Um, yeah, I think Nick, somebody's paying Nick to just mention Earl Thomas

once per show. I feel like I know he's gonna keep doing it until we get written up for tampering or something. I don't know. Fine, all right, we appreciate you guys joining us. We'll be back next week for another episode of The Break. Till then for Nick Eatman, Dave Hellman, Amber Garcia, I'm Derek Hughltson. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.